Guild Wars 2

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So Mind Wrack is broken because it can exceed 10k?

Somewhere in the class description, ANet needs to add: “this is not a pet class”.

Put it this way, if I said to you if I were to remove frenzy from warriors, would you have any fear of them whatsoever?.
When people like taugrim/yojack say ’ Well the best build is with rifles’ a ranged weapon there is clearly a problem with melee.

1. Hammer doesn’t need Frenzy to be strong.

2. Are Taugrim / Yojack supposed to be good? Last I checked Taugrim was an “above average PvPer”, but very good at data analysis and communication. Yojack also makes easy builds for the masses. No idea if he’s good or not, but IIRC he wasn’t clear in this thread that his build was not intended for actual PvP (because it’s kind of bad for WvW/PvP).

Warriors used to be a threat before people discovered the correct builds with other classes, now they’re pretty much a joke.

So what happens when warriors discover the “correct builds”?

The damage in PvE is already increased over sPvP.

Running into a zerg as a melee in any pug PvP game format is failure.

You either:

- Flank hard and deep
- Hit and run
- Go find small fights
- Group up with a highly coordinated melee charge strategy
- Stop playing melee in pug large-scale WvW

Those are your only options. It has zero to do with a Warrior’s weapons, traits, spec.

Well, I don’t really pay attention to my weapon skills. Those are all in the reflexes, as it were. 0 mental attention required.

For Mantras, I have Pain down to pure reflex. I don’t actually check charges mid-fight in general (Resolve/Conc) — I do that when I back off and disengage.

The only Mantra I actually pay attention to in a fight at all is Recovery, so I can time when to disengage and when to use it while pushing.

There’s a significant learning curve for Mantras since they have such a different paradigm, but once you get used to them it’s not a big deal for the most part — it’s just a different set of habits which is why people find them awkward.

Edit: I think the key to the whack-a-mole feel is that each Mantra is different — don’t treat them all as “Mantras”. You have a heal, a damage spike, a condition removal, and a stability (and a daze). Each Mantra has different patterns where you may need to reset them, let them go, or disengage to recharge them.

I mean, do you treat Mimic, Arcane Thievery, and Blink the same way because they’re “Manipulations”? No — same deal with Mantras.

If ANet switched it to a normal cooldown system, they would have to significantly nerf/change the Mantras as they stand. Currently, Mantras have lower cooldowns and more frequent uses for similar effects as other abilities. E.g., without charging they would be overpowered. The cooldowns would have to be nerfed, and the number of charges probably reduced to “1”.

Mantra of Pain would be unique since it has no cooldown and would have to have its raw damage buffed, which would be hilarious.

Overall it just requires a different adaptation of playstyle. No different than Ranger Spirits, Necro Minions, Thief … Traps?, Warrior Banners. These things are different to manage. Mantras are lucky to be the most awkward since they use an inverse playstyle to the normal cooldown-use approach.

Still, it’s not a problem after you get used to them — much the same as with every other aspect of the class (and of all classes). It’s all learning curve, and way too many players don’t believe they need to learn.

Then you don’t have a good concept of offense.

Staff is a condition damage weapon, so if you have no power, then Staff will win offensively (although GS will match it with Sharper Images if you manage it well and use a Rampager stat spread).

If you use a power build, GS basically does like 3x Staff’s DPS at a minimum.

For general PvE, using GS + Staff is fine — but Staff is not the primary weapon, GS is. You unload AOE and DPS with GS, then you swap to Staff for a defensive sequence (with bonus iWarlock for deeps). Then you switch back to GS for offense.

And was so impressed with herself that it hit that hard. The boss had 5 different conditions on them at the time, don’t remember the stacks, just that it was me and a thief keeping them up, and my iWarlock hit for 2.1k as well. So I don’t know what’s “Pitiful” to you but 5 different conditions is relatively easy to get with a mixed group and seeing as it’s matching up to the highest single-hit damage an ELEMENTALIST can do, on a skill that’s not random aoe like theirs…

My iWarlock crits for >7.5k. And I don’t use iWarlock >.>

Lol Shatter “low skill cap” compared to … phantasm army?

Hehehehehehehehehe.

Edit: Although I have to admit I wouldn’t use Pistol just because Pistol is Pistol and Focus is better in every way!

1- It’s autoattack is loud, hearing “BSHM-KSHMMM-KSHMMM!!” every second is not particularly enjoyable.

I tend to use a lot of other abilities in addition to LAZER PEW PEW.

2- The range mechanic of autoattack is unfun. In a lot of situations (pvp or pve) you wont be able to get max-range damage.

Then use other abilities. I find getting >4k crits on my autoattack on lowbies in WvW to be very fun.

3- Number 2 ability is nice I guess, but phase retreat is a million times better for clone generation. Not only you get a clone but pretty much have a blink-teleport every 6 seconds traited!

Phase Retreat does 0 damage. Mirror Blade does as much damage as a phantasm (with Elasticity), gives you 6 stacks of Might (drool) and inflicts 6-9 stacks of Vulnerability (6-9% more damage for you).

Phase Retreat is a defensive tool. Mirror Blade is an offensive tool.

4- Number 3 ability is pretty meh… why is it a targetable ability? The AOE range isnt big, it should just instantly cast on your selected target. I guess Staff has also a “meh” ability with Chaos Armor.

It strips boons which is useful, and the AOE range is sufficient to nail stuff when it gets clumped up. Luckily the attack speed on it is very good now, so you can nail it at the right moments fairly easily. It’s more of a situational ability — it is used for the opportune moment.

For example, when you down a player and his buddy goes to rez him. What do? Mirror Blade → iB → Mind Stab → Shatter = now you have 2 downed players, one of which is almost dead, and you countered all the rez heals the second player was attempting, so 0 chance of the first player getting up.

6- Illusionary Wave… a push on a long cooldown with no additional effects.. Chaos storm is a million times better than this.

GS would be overpowered with Chaos Storm yes?

Also, the knockback gains distance where Chaos Storm does not.

In any case, if you don’t like Greatsword then don’t use Greatsword. However, don’t complain when your direct damage is low, because that is GS’s focus.

^

Harmonious Mantras and Restorative Mantras don’t synergize with each other. RM becomes weaker as a raw heal effect when you have HM.

Also, RM focuses on Mantra of Pain with a little Mantra of Recovery. Harmonious Mantras really enhances Resolve, Distraction, and Concentration the most, with a little Recovery. I mean, HM enhances Pain as well, but it really helps the other ones a lot more.

Also, the way the trait trees are designed, players are not supposed to “take all Mantra traits”. Restorative Mantras is in the healing/support tree because it adds a heal/support effect to existing abilities. What support Mesmer would want to go up Dom or Dueling to get a heal for the group?

Similarly, HM does not help your group. Not only does it make RM more difficult to use, but none of the Mantra effects have direct group benefit from HM. HM is a “selfish” trait that buffs abilities that only affect you. Hence glass DPS build and so 30 in Dom.

EM is in Dueling because both EM and HM are strong enough to be master traits at 30 points, and if they were in the same tree, you could only take one of the two traits. This way you can take both.

Sidenote: EM has a slight de-synergy with Restorative Mantras similar to HM.

If you have 3 charges of Mantra then used one and are dropped out of combat, should you just waste 2 charges to set off the cooldown? Then wait X seconds before spending the 4s to charge it again?

Depends on Mantra. I like to maintain Pain at 2-3, Resolve at 1+, Concentration at 1+. If I anticipate a lul I will still reset Resolve/Conc at 1. I will reset Pain even for a very short disengage if it’s at 1. Recovery I like to keep at 3, but I will leave it at 2 unless there’s a short lul.

After a while you get into the habit of judging when you feel like you want to reset each Mantra. Pain and Recovery are the quickest to reset, and the ones you want to focus on. Conc/Resolve are Mantra you can be lazy about and think about when direct fighting dies down, although you do want to reset them eventually.

The thing is that the minor trait in Dom adds confusion for every shatter you do, so if you have IP and fast clone generation, you can cycle pretty loaded shatters F1 through F4.

I had an sPvP build where I actually went for condition damage with that approach and I was able to maintain pretty much 100% uptime on ~3-7 stacks, with spikes up to 10-15 stacks depending on circumstances. I mean, 5 stacks was really trivial — you just have to shatter once every 5 seconds, and in that build I shattered every ~3s until I ran out of cooldowns.

Then again I wasn’t really focusing on confusion exclusively, so I didn’t really eyeball how many stacks for how long. The build also didn’t use Glamours or the Confusion on Blind, which it probably should have — the build was a bit experimental.

In any case, the point was that I think the notion of extending the duration and reducing the potency may have merit, but those are very extreme adjustments.

Maybe increasing the base duration by 25-33% and reducing the damage by 20% or something.

Most Mesmers use Rampagers because they think SI is the end-all be-all of the class.

Hey guys, this one time I was losing a fight, then I used Decoy to drop target. Then I got behind the bad guy and then killed him.

Decoy OP!

This other time, I was being attacked by some dude and then I used my knockback, then I killed him from perma kiting. Man that knockback is overpowered. Nerf!

Claw Island can be a problem for a Mesmer if you don’t approach it correctly. You shouldn’t fail the quest — but you may die if you accidentally pull AOE aggro too much and you’re not ultra pro.

That’s the change I couldn’t really understand, considering you can keep up chaos armour pretty much all the time anyway. Was it done just to give it the same CD as chaos storm? Just seems a bit odd/pointless(?)

I don’t think ANet was bothered by the Mesmer’s high personal uptime on Chaos Armor. I think the issue was the high group uptime on Chaos Armor plus all the other benefits of Chaos Storm.

So when they nerfed Storm they buffed Chaos Armor to maintain the Mesmer’s personal uptime on it.

Considering how much uptime I can maintain on pretty high stacks of Confusion, I don’t think the extremity of those numbers are anywhere near necessary.

MeveM.7913:

I’m currently going after MrPromethius’ build of 20/0/30/0/20 with staff as main weapon and Carrion gear. I try a Greatsword and do like 400-700 damage per auto attack, then I watch WvW videos where Greatsword users do 2k-3k or even more damage per auto attack and no guide to go with it to what items and spec they use.

It’s very simple: if you want high direct damage (GS autoattacks), then you need Berserker gear for high power and crit damage. Carrion gear doesn’t even have high power — it has mid power and high condition damage. A build with high investment into power and crit damage (Domination/Dueling) will also help.

Take a trip to the Heart of the Mists (sPvP lobby) where you can try on different stat configurations and builds and go hit a dummy golem. Be aware that a few of the stats are different between sPvP and PvE though (for example PvE Berserkers has more crit damage than the sPvP Berserker, and has no Vit).

No problem.

As long as other readers of this forum realize Mesmers have F4 and most classes don’t (e.g. Mesmers are in a better position to counter spike without resorting to utilities like Decoy/Blink), that’s good enough.

Oh, and phase retreat.

And like I said, citing ancient developer comments for GW2 balance today is silly in the first place … but it is good for a laugh.

I think the real reason that these builds tend to work so well is the synergy they have with the Greatsword.

True in many ways. Some things I’ve noticed in terms of weapon selection for WvW:

1. Staff blows because skirmish relies on chasedown or escape, and Staff is not that good at either. The only really useful thing out of Staff is the CC on Chaos Storm, and that’s only strong for slowing a big push by the enemy through a chokepoint.

For everything else Staff is pretty meh, although it could be useful for “bunkering” on a supply camp I suppose.

2. GS is the only useful siege DPS weapon. iD and iWarlock fail at shooting up or down ramparts, not even counting iBerserker’s LOS or lack thereof. You can be on top of a rampart and iW/iD will get obstructed shooting down. So sad.

I stepped away from Ogre because a lot of Ogre’s value relies on getting hit in the first place to proc the pet, and then the pet going and doing stuff.

Since I’m full glass cannon anyways, I said F that I’m just not gonna get hit and take the Scholar 6pc bonus. Also, it was cheaper at the time. I could make it myself too, which saved about 15s per rune from the TP tax+markups.

I know how much you enjoy killing those hard-to-reach trebs with iBerserker.

THERE AIN’T NO TREB SAFE FROM MAH SPIN2WIN.

“It’s on the kittening vista … you can hit that ?!”

As per the comment on trait vs. utility slot, obviously you haven’t been here since early development. Jon Peters had discussed that they wanted to let people make decisions whether they would gain anti spike or condition removal measures via traits, or utility slots. It’s a customization choice. If you have an issue with that, then argue the position with the developer.

It still doesn’t detract that when a utility slot has to become reserved, playstyle variety and build variety is dampened. You have lesser opportunity to bring other utilities because bringing a condition removal and a stun breaker utility to dungeons isn’t optional. So instead of customizing your playstyle based on 3 utilities, you only truly have one free utility slot, and of those utilities available, many of them crowd the same function.

1. Your comparison is absurd. First, any particular ability or trait in the game will not be equally valuable between different game formats. Hence the ability to customize.

2. Mirror of Anguish is not “condition removal”. Hence it has no direct relevance to your cited “developer statements in early development” (which also, for what it’s worth, have little relevance to GW2 circa October 2012).

3. Mesmers have several condition removal options via traits or utility slots, further removing your example from anything the developer specifically cited.

4. If we are, in fact, talking about Effect immunity/removal/cancelling (e.g. countering Stun/Daze/Knockdown), you’d probably want to consider the following:

- Other classes have very thin trait-based Effect counters.

- Mirroring the effect on the user is great for anything save Immune mobs in PvE (e.g. very few mob types). For champs that have the buffer, Mirror of Anguish should reduce that buffer. In PvP, the ability basically works as intended, although you could find issue with the long internal cooldown.

- Mesmers have the unique capability to use Distortion and gain invulnerability WHILE affected by an Effect. This is different than most classes (although some other classes have other useful defensive capabilities while affected by a CC), and give Mesmers an inherent advantage. Mesmers can even spec for Illusory Persona to make this more accessible / more potent.

Just because Blink and Decoy are Too Good™, doesn’t mean that the Mesmer is forced into them simply for countering Effects.

^
Precisely, but he was referring specifically to using, for example, Power Spike (mantra of pain charges) while charging up Mantra of Recovery. E.g. the long charge time of the mantras is slightly mitigated by being able to use the charges of all your other mantras in a mantra build at the same time.

The shortbow spam (and caltrops for the matter) are limited by resources so they can’t spam those continuously prior to the mobs actually spamming like Engis can with their AOE.

Also, there are rumors that may or may not be true about damage thresholds required to improve loot drop rates, where caltrops would be insufficient.

Lol. Yeah well, it pretty much depends whether your build is focused on Mind Wrack versus being focused on spamming all the Shatters (I used a particular sPvP build that did that; at 2 stacks of Vuln, Rending sounds useful there).

Well yeah, low level players for sure. Highest hits on glass 80s are in the 6.5-7.5k range. Mantra crits for 3.5k-4k.

Full berserker exotics, Scholar runes, 25 stacks of bloodlust. Usually 3 orbs. Haven’t remembered to buy and/or eat truffle steaks.

To think, when the OP gets some gear, he’ll do 35k damage with that combo instead of 17k.

Ah, well if Rending is actually 2 per then that will be what, 12 off a a Diversion x4. Throw in the other stuff. Whee.

Sidenote: Not sure what you’re talking about “consider it over Mental Torment”. Dazzling is a Minor Trait.

The normal mobs should upgrade to veterans.

Easy.

Builds I have run in WvW:

1. 30/30 Mantra build. Pew pew pew 8k iB crits, 4k+ Mantra of Pain crits, 4k+ 1x Mind Wracks (10k+ 3x). It blows people up the best of any build, because it just does more big numbers on people. GS + x.

(ratings out of 5)

Kill: 5
Utility: 2
Flexibility: 2

Skirmish: 4
Siege: 5

2. 20/20/0/0/30. IP is great for skirmishing. High offense all around. GS + x. It has less damage than build #1 but does not require Mantras, so you have more flexibility and mobility with Blink/Decoy, Feedback, Null Field, etc etc. Best all-around offense.

Kill: 4
Utility: 4
Flexibility: 3

Skirmish: 5
Siege: 4

3. 20/0/0/20/30. More IP for skirmishing. Warden’s Feedback for prosauce everything. This is the best hybrid build, IMO. The point spread is also 100% compatible with a 99% full investment as a GLAMOUR build (although you would have to swap to at least some condition damage gear to support the confusion). GS or Staff + x/Focus.

Kill: 3
Utility: 5
Flexibility: 5

Skirmish: 5
Siege: 5

4. 20/20/0/25/5. Lol phantasm lololol pew pew. Throw phantasm pew pew. Any + any weapons. Recommend GS + x/Pistol or Focus. This build is ideal for siege + flexibility (e.g. it’s like build #3 but weaker for skirmish and stronger for sieging).

Kill: 3
Utility: 5
Flexibility: 4

Skirmish: 4
Siege: 5

There are some others, but these are probably the best because I’ve run them.

Rending Shatter is 1 vuln per shatter http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rending_Shatter

Unless it’s working differently in-game. So a 4x Diversion (with IP) will stack:

4 (rending shatter) + 4 (minor trait for vuln on daze) = 8

Interrupt will happen a max of once, so 9 stacks. Elasticity MB will add 9 more stacks. If you rollface F1/F2/F4 you will get more stacks, particularly if you combo with Mirror Images or other illusion-generation abilities.

^

After using them for awhile you’ll remember to charge them all the time and it’s a non-issue. Bit of a learning curve / practice required though. Like building a new reflex.

I spent a bit of time doing story quests while forcing myself to use full Mantras, put on some Eye of the Tiger. Now I have tiger blood.

20/0/0/20/30 is an easy hybrid build that picks up Warden’s feedback with the option of other minor stuff. If you really want to go more support, you can go 0/0/20/20/30, or higher/lower in Chaos or Inspiration for other traits. 20/20 will get you the weapon traits if you’re aiming for those, as well as the 15-point passives.

You don’t need a “build” to do Shatter damage in a DE. You need power-centric gear and IP. That leaves you 40 points to invest elsewhere. Not to mention the 25 minor in Illusion gives group Might. That’s pretty solid all by itself.

To be honest, I think the core issue is that DEs do not scale appropriately to population.

With a large number of players in the event, the mob waves should be comprised of veterans at the least and low-end champions, rather than lots of normal mobs.

That would basically resolve all the issues instantly.

^

No one cares about the gold medal for contribution. The relevant aspect is mob tagging for loot.

And that’s ignoring what I said, but thanks again for trying, Easy.

I read what you said. Perhaps you should be clearer and state that you want “IWIN NUKE ALL EMAIN” in your F1.

Phantasms already provide more effect for their activation than clones. There’s no reason why they need to provide more effect when you shatter them, considering that their cooldowns are not very long and you will replace them anyways.

1. If phantasms were long-term pets like ranger pets, your point would have merit.

2. If the “high alternative cost” phantasm scenario didn’t rely on a build completely devoted to centering the Mesmer’s output solely on the phantasms in contrived PvE situations where 3 phantasms actually exist, then alternative (superior) combat sequences to incurring that alternative cost would not be viable and as a result your point would have merit.

However, they are not and that does, so the alternative cost you imagine is not very major in practice.

Yeah there’s a Minor trait in Dom that adds that.

With a 20 Dom / 30 Illusion build, you press F3 and get 8 stacks of vuln. With Elasticity and GS, you throw a Mirror Blade for 9 stacks of vuln. With Vuln on Shatter (major trait in Dom), you will get more stacks of vuln when you F3.

So that’s around 25 stacks if you cycle a combo of Shatters on top of a Mirror Blade.

Mantra of Pain is a straight dps loss and its spike is insufficient in PvE.

The spike is sufficient for solo PvE. It will help eradicate the first mob very quickly. Its cooldown also synergizes well for a restorative mantra build.

Mirror of Anguish simply cannot compete with Decoy/Blink/Mirror Image because it has twice the cooldown and doesn’t actually break a CC, but rather reflects it.

Why are you trying to comare a trait with a utility slot ability?

Mirror of Anguish is pretty nifty if your opponent is vulnerable to CC. If many champion-level mobs are immune to CC … ohwell? Many traits work better in PvE or better in PvP. That’s why you have many options for traits.

Sword clones cripple.

No, Sword clones apply vulnerability and may or may not strip a boon on the third hit. The cripple on iLeap is specific to the leap that the clone does when it spawns and leaps for a target. Not sure if the clone ever leaps again after the first time, though. Pretty sure it doesn’t but I could be wrong.

Also, there’s no reason for “all clones to offer something baseline”. They already offer baseline capabilities: distraction, meatshield, projectile absorber, and can be shattered for additional effects. Naturally, they can also be traited with any of a dozen traits for more effects.

There’s no reason for “more baseline” effects than already exist, because there’s no build where you’re going to sit there and avoid the billion ways you can augment them.

Chaos Storm is insanely powerful. It’s one of the most powerful single button presses in the game:

1. Chaos Armor combo field = Chaos Armor on you (minor)

2. Chaos Armor combo = Chaos Armor on your group (major). Compare Null Field / Feedback cooldowns to Chaos Storm’s.

3. Aegis spam. Compare Chaos Storm’s cooldown to any Aegis-granting ability in the game. Now realize it’s AOE, for multiple Aegis. Like the Guardian Virtue. Now compare those cooldowns.

4. Daze spam. Compare daze cooldowns to Chaos Storm cooldown.

Now, realize that Chaos Storm does ALL FOUR of those things in 1 button press, with a chance of multiple Dazes or Aegis, and can spread Chaos Armor to >5 people with multiple blast finishers.

And, Chaos storm does bonus direct and poison damage on top. And chill for crying out loud.

And that is why it’s a legitimate nerf. The Chaos Armor buff counteracts the nerf a little, because I think ANet balanced around the leap finisher more than they had accounted for everything else that Chaos Storm does.

Edit: Also, staff trait partially mitigates the nerf, so … not as bad as it seems for builds willing to invest into 20 Chaos.

Working as intended + there was never any bug.

If you use Mirror Image / Phase Retreat / Blink slowly (brain lag) after getting hit by a short Immobilize, then the Immob will expire or almost expire by the time you use the ability (especially MI since it is a fraction of a second slower than the other 2).

If you use it very quickly (good reflexes) after being nailed by a long Immobilize, you will distinctly notice the lack of movement capability after using the ability.

Sidenote:

Mantra of Resolve to wipe 3 Immobilizes in a row I WILL GET INTO THE kittenING KEEP YOU kittenES MUHAHAHA.

however the build will be pretty rubbish outside of dynamic events

No. There is no other response to your random statement than “no”.

Better than Necro’s and Thieves??? What are you smoking. Those 2 are probably the best.

Uh, no. Guardians, Eles, and Engis are the best, not in that order. All other classes are inferior to those 3 at Orr DE farming.

Thieves are poor because their AOE has a travel time and is not spammable due to Initiative limitations. Necros I have no idea, but some players who know how to actually tag on a Mesmer say that Mesmers are better, so I’m going with that.

Chill is an excellent condition. Don’t know how it affects thief attacks.

The slow on it is nasty though.

You can target spawns before they appear on your screen. Use target next / target nearest (IIRC target nearest is not bound by default — bind it) and when you can something, hit the ability.

Thieves using the gimmick backstab build will kill you instantly from 900 range unless you are very tanky.

That said, still winnable if you instantly hit BF/Distortion/dodge when they are at 900-ish range to evade their 30k damage opening sequence.

The hard part is predicting what spec they are, since you need to identify it before they attack, because if they attack, you die.

I have no traits for shatters and Mind Wrack x3 crits for 10k for me in WvW.

If you’re talking about Orr DEs with 50 players, the answer is:

Mesmers can do it better than Necros and Thieves. About on par with Rangers. Worse than Eles, Engis, and Guardians. However, Mesmers will have to run a more specific build to accomplish it (Illusory Persona Shatters).

Don’t know about Warrs. I expect Warrs to be highly variable depending on the specific DE (if they can cleave melee on a single spot, they should be OK).

I died once on claw island because I didn’t read the quest and thought you were supposed to kill the [infinitely respawning] NPCs on the way to rescue that officer chick. This while the treb dropped knockdowns and poison on me, and I couldn’t be arsed to run away.

Also, uncontrolled AOE may pull too much aggro. So, focus a few at a time.

Those two adjustments and claw island was easy. May also have to swap in a condition removal for the boss.

Hell, even my Thief has better chances tagging mobs with her bow than my Mesmer.

Engi I understand, but if you are better at tagging with a Thief, then you are not playing the Mesmer well for tagging.

Probably both.

If the clones only target what you’re targeting, then what would they do when you have no target or a friendly target?

Thus, they target nearest.

However, it would be ideal for them to prioritize <your target> if you have an offensive target, then default to <nearest target> when you don’t.

That said, I vaguely remember them behaving that way … I’m not 100% positive that they are bugged. Would have to test again. Haven’t had DE slotted in a good while.

My “plain damage” Mantra can crit for up to 4850 damage on lowbies when I have max buffs. Oh wait, I didn’t eat a truffle steak … time to go for new numbers.

Tbh, I’m pretty happy with my Mantras atm after a few weeks of using them.

Shatter is unfun.
That’s not even deniable. The amount of mesmers using Shatter is extremely low.

Generic Mesmers or good Mesmers?

As an aside, under this, Phantasms could be shatterable, so long as they gave damage and something else.

They do, depending on traits.

There are a billions of traits littered throughout all lines that give bonus effects for shatters — Might, Vuln, Heal, condition removal, Confusion, boon strip, zzz.