Guild Wars 2

OK! I got it! the unique utility that necros can bring to dungeons to make them a must have. Summon a undead merchant. lets be real here guys, in a dungeon tour you all probably spend 30minutes merchanting, be efficient with your dungeon rotations so your bag gets full in time gated paths and pop that undead merchant and be the most popular class in gw2.

Garth Thurgen.1380:

EcoRI.9273:

One way to make necros viable without changing anything is to design a “raid” that involves vertical movement for a segment of the raid. Imagine an event objective where you have to reach the bottom of a cliff. If you were to run down normally, it would take several minutes due to the nature of the route and enemy placement. Or you can have a necro just jump off a ledge and use that skill that prevents him from taking any falling damage. Upon reaching the bottom of the cliff, you unlock a waypoint.

So rather than make the class viable for everything, even in a non-meta way, ANet should add a gimmick segment to everything that they do from now on that involves falling + a WP at the bottom? Just so that there’s one point in the dungeon that it’s not a complete waste to bring a Necro? While that sort of thing would be neat as a gimmick in a single instance, as it’s always fun to see interesting/cheesy options like that every once in a while, all that does is push the issues of the class to the side. If Necros are still extremely subpar at everything but this one lone gimmick spot (that has to be in every bit of new content or all it will do is shove all of the Necros into a single raid… where they’ll still want a class of not-Necros for every other position) then nothing will change. All it would be is like how Necro is the most important part of the EotM meta (lol, fear walls). Having gimmicks is one thing and being based around a central gimmick isn’t a problem, but when all your class devolves into for serious play is “I jump down the cliff for this one part, and then just go stand in the corner for the rest due to it being just as relevant as if I was there,” then something really needs to be done.

I have to say though, as long as they get a reliable Blast finisher + a good enough dps boost I think they’ll be fine. If their auto-attacks give enough Chill as to be relevant they can perform pretty solidly for non-meta purposes (ala Ranger).

Currently as long as you have 1 guard,1ele,1thief,1warrior, dungeons will be fast regardless of what you bring as a 5th. Yes necros will be slower than everything else but by how much? Probably less than 10 seconds in a casual run compared to the other 2nd tier classes(mes,ranger,engi). And probably 30seconds compared to a second ele. A large part of dungeons in todays meta is really just running from point A to point B. DPS is hardly a huge factor as most of you think.

TL:DR necros are viable to bring to casual runs. Gimmick allows necros to be viable in record runs.

One way to make necros viable without changing anything is to design a “raid” that involves vertical movement for a segment of the raid. Imagine an event objective where you have to reach the bottom of a cliff. If you were to run down normally, it would take several minutes due to the nature of the route and enemy placement. Or you can have a necro just jump off a ledge and use that skill that prevents him from taking any falling damage. Upon reaching the bottom of the cliff, you unlock a waypoint.

I love the people in forums; “Why so serious?!”

bloodletting wolf.2837:

EcoRI.9273:

Harper.4173:

EcoRI.9273:

Kal Spiro.9745:

EcoRI.9273:

Edit: Okay I realized that it was stupid to implement the slip feature just like how it is stupid to implement tank healer in an action MMO game, so I would like to suggest a new moderate solution which is: Whenever you move while under the effects of swiftness you slowly degenerate endurance and whenever you use mobility skills you lose a little bit of endurance.

Does this mean that if you dodge twice you can’t physically use a mobility skill? If you can keep swiftness up long enough to drain all of your endurance does it just stay drained or do you lose swiftness, and again does this disable your ability to use other skills?

I honestly don’t understand what the problem is. Why does a change need to be made? What is wrong with being able to do a dungeon fast if you know all the intricacies of that dungeon? I want more options in how I complete content, I don’t want restrictions in how I can complete content. Mobile characters are supposed to be mobile, it’s the design of the character, and that includes being able to dodge twice across the board.

Mobility skills consumes a little bit of endurance, swiftness ends if you run out of endurance.

And it is a problem because it is ruining the way I prefer the game to be played. I prefer game systems to be immersive. Usain Bolt can’t do 1mile dashes in real life so neither should my character. And yes I can make a LFG for “no swiftness no running” but I hate the fact that everyone who will use swiftness and mobility skills, will make so much more money than me.

So play with your own type of player and don’t mingle with the rest.
This is a classic case of " change the game for everyone so it can be more like I’d like it because I can’t be bothered to make my own groups and find people like myself".

You’re sad that others are making more money? Wow – what can I say.

Have you considered that you can’t have your cake and eat it? You can play the way you want or you can make more money. You really want it all don’t you?

Just wow.

Also OP don’t the people who make TONS of money on the TP bother you? Doesn’t it bother you that with a bit of real life cash people can make tons more money than you can in dungeons?
Or by flipping items or crafting various items like ascended insignias?
And worst of all – they’re not even moving whilst doing it!!!

Well obviously its because you have your cake and you are eating it and im here to tell mommy anet to give me some and you being a selfish person wont have any of that so here you here getting angry at anything that will take your cake away

Well you have been given many options for getting cake and you don’t seem to like any of them so you just want to knock the cake out of every one else’s hand. Does that sound very fair to you?

Who is everyone exactly? Down with the 1%! #OccupySpeedRun.

Looks like Necro will may be my main open world toon now. So KEWWLL!!!

Harper.4173:

EcoRI.9273:

Kal Spiro.9745:

EcoRI.9273:

Edit: Okay I realized that it was stupid to implement the slip feature just like how it is stupid to implement tank healer in an action MMO game, so I would like to suggest a new moderate solution which is: Whenever you move while under the effects of swiftness you slowly degenerate endurance and whenever you use mobility skills you lose a little bit of endurance.

Does this mean that if you dodge twice you can’t physically use a mobility skill? If you can keep swiftness up long enough to drain all of your endurance does it just stay drained or do you lose swiftness, and again does this disable your ability to use other skills?

I honestly don’t understand what the problem is. Why does a change need to be made? What is wrong with being able to do a dungeon fast if you know all the intricacies of that dungeon? I want more options in how I complete content, I don’t want restrictions in how I can complete content. Mobile characters are supposed to be mobile, it’s the design of the character, and that includes being able to dodge twice across the board.

Mobility skills consumes a little bit of endurance, swiftness ends if you run out of endurance.

And it is a problem because it is ruining the way I prefer the game to be played. I prefer game systems to be immersive. Usain Bolt can’t do 1mile dashes in real life so neither should my character. And yes I can make a LFG for “no swiftness no running” but I hate the fact that everyone who will use swiftness and mobility skills, will make so much more money than me.

So play with your own type of player and don’t mingle with the rest.
This is a classic case of " change the game for everyone so it can be more like I’d like it because I can’t be bothered to make my own groups and find people like myself".

You’re sad that others are making more money? Wow – what can I say.

Have you considered that you can’t have your cake and eat it? You can play the way you want or you can make more money. You really want it all don’t you?

Just wow.

Also OP don’t the people who make TONS of money on the TP bother you? Doesn’t it bother you that with a bit of real life cash people can make tons more money than you can in dungeons?
Or by flipping items or crafting various items like ascended insignias?
And worst of all – they’re not even moving whilst doing it!!!

Well obviously its because you have your cake and you are eating it and im here to tell mommy anet to give me some and you being a selfish person wont have any of that so here you here getting angry at anything that will take your cake away

My problem with CoE door is that you can bug the dungeon by getting alpha to 50% so it just appears to be an exploit where as other door skips won’t bug the dungeon. If we begin path selection for CoE at the start and killing alpha early triggers the laser room event, I probably wouldn’t have a problem with the door skip.

the trick is half truths.

IndigoSundown.5419:

There is a failure in analysis by the OP. If the presenting problem is that different gear prefixes are not equal in terms of clear time, then a solution which changes something that is independent of stats (other than Boon Duration — which does not appear on glass gear) is not likely to change the preferred gearing.

Wanting gear diversity is based around the want for role diversity. The only solution to this problem is to implement dedicated roles. You cannot solve this “problem” with a mobility nerf. Nor can it be solved by making mobs attack faster. At best, either approach would shift the gear meta to a hybrid damage/survival gear prefix.

Finally, HoT is not going to change the dungeon meta. Last I heard, there will be no changes to dungeons in HoT, and this is the context in which the meta issue is raised. While condi gear may in fact become more desirable, condi stat sets come in glass and hybrid damage/survival sets, so glass is likely to still be required in dungeons even if Rampager and Sinister become accepted.

Now, maybe ANet is doing things in HoT to require the use of certain skills, boons, etc. They began this in Dry Top and SW. These modifications to game play did not make any appreciable change in the desirability of glass gear that I saw. Now, if someone were to present evidence that the Dry Top mobs/events and the Mordrem changed gear desirability, I’d be happy to consider it. Otherwise, while HoT may in fact present more complex encounters requiring more thoughtful play, I doubt it will introduce gear diversity.

My problem is that there is 0 cons to mobility. It can speed up dungeon completion significantly faster than berserker gear. When players play berserker, the game has at least a counter in place for it. Which is if you mess up, you are going to wipe and you will have to restart. I want a system that stops this mobility meta.

Hidori.3472:

what’s it with those nerfers these days? They like to see things get “moderated” in their point of view so it could fit their own (sometimes lack of) play style more.

What’s wrong with ppl speed running, speed killing, speed whatevering the dungeons?
Let them have their fun!

What do you have against ppl comleting dungeons fast?

What harm does it to you?

If you don’t like it, dear EcoRI.9273, then don’t participate in those runs.
Use the LFG and forums to find ppl which enjoy the things you do.

Why do you try to regulate the things in your own image, if both can happily coexist?

Well here’s the answer:

“…but I hate the fact that everyone who will use swiftness and mobility skills, will make so much more money than me.” EcoRI.9273

It’s pure selfishness. You just want it to be your way, because.

yuck

Well actually in a MMO where the end game is Fashion Wars 2, if everyone else is making more money than me because of how I want to play, I won’t be able to buy all the shinies that I want from the TP because the guys speed running are jacking up the prices. So yes it does affect me. #OccupySpeedRun.

Fermi.2409:

EcoRI.9273:

And it is a problem because it is ruining the way I prefer the game to be played. I prefer game systems to be immersive. Usain Bolt can’t do 1mile dashes in real life so neither should my character. And yes I can make a LFG for “no swiftness no running” but I hate the fact that everyone who will use swiftness and mobility skills, will make so much more money than me.

Dear lord, literally “I don’t like that people can play a way I don’t like, nerf them to my level!”. The ridiculousness is real.

Although you find it ridiculous, I can assure you many people in this forum feel the same way that I feel. Be it Tank/Healer or Walking to conserve endurance I think we should all unite to fight for our cause. So Tank/Healer advocates please give me your support because although we are on different battlefronts, we are both fighting the same fight.

Kal Spiro.9745:

EcoRI.9273:

Edit: Okay I realized that it was stupid to implement the slip feature just like how it is stupid to implement tank healer in an action MMO game, so I would like to suggest a new moderate solution which is: Whenever you move while under the effects of swiftness you slowly degenerate endurance and whenever you use mobility skills you lose a little bit of endurance.

Does this mean that if you dodge twice you can’t physically use a mobility skill? If you can keep swiftness up long enough to drain all of your endurance does it just stay drained or do you lose swiftness, and again does this disable your ability to use other skills?

I honestly don’t understand what the problem is. Why does a change need to be made? What is wrong with being able to do a dungeon fast if you know all the intricacies of that dungeon? I want more options in how I complete content, I don’t want restrictions in how I can complete content. Mobile characters are supposed to be mobile, it’s the design of the character, and that includes being able to dodge twice across the board.

Mobility skills consumes a little bit of endurance, swiftness ends if you run out of endurance.

And it is a problem because it is ruining the way I prefer the game to be played. I prefer game systems to be immersive. Usain Bolt can’t do 1mile dashes in real life so neither should my character. And yes I can make a LFG for “no swiftness no running” but I hate the fact that everyone who will use swiftness and mobility skills, will make so much more money than me.

I personally don’t care how Lupi is killed. I myself like to cheese him as a guardian because of big numbers and find fighting him regularly not much harder in a group setting.

Kal Spiro.9745:

In what way could it ever make sense to implement a fighting game feature in an adventure game MMO? They’re not even on the same genre spectrum. They are completely separate entities.

:-\ Well you’ve convinced me! so I wrote an alternate solution.

So there has been alot of threads recently about people blaming DPS, specifically, berserker gear, as being the reason why dungeons are being completed so fast that it forced everyone to run them. People agrue that they would like to run other gears and run dungeons just as fast. Well I am here to tell you guys that Mobility is the reason why people are completing dungeons so fast. First let’s look at the days when FGS elite was dominant, can we can all agree that FGS did the MOST DPS in the game ever? If you examine the past world record runs where FGS was used for damage, most of them are actually over 1minute slower than what it is today. Why? Because instead of using FGS to damage, people are now using FGS to run and as a result has significantly improved their completion time! The biggest bottleneck in dungeons is not DPS but rather movement check. I believe mobility is a huge problem in this game as it literally has no counter play in PvE and should be nerfed. At least berserker gear has some counters, which is you can easily wipe if you messed up on dodges. So I propose a solution to this problem. In games like smash brothers where mobility was at a point king, the developers decided to introduce a counter to it, where if you continuously dash, you have a chance to slip( http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Prat_Falling ). I believe if anyone has swiftness boon or uses mobility skills too much, they should have a chance to slip. If other games like Smash Brothers does it, then it obviously would make sense to implement something similar in GW2.

PS its called speed running for a reason and not speed killing.

Edit: Okay I realized that it was stupid to implement the slip feature just like how it is stupid to implement tank healer in an action MMO game, so I would like to suggest a new moderate solution which is: Whenever you move while under the effects of swiftness you slowly degenerate endurance and whenever you use mobility skills you lose a little bit of endurance.

Astralporing.1957:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Maybe we are just coming to the conclusion that going no-trinity was a mistake all along.

Nope. The problem lies not in the no-trinity approach (which actually didn’t originally mean neither “all dps” nor “whatever is okay”, by the way). It lies with the active combat system not being a good fit for the gear stat system designed. Both things are meant for different games – they just don’t work too well together.

The way i see it is the tankier stats allows for the players who are less skilled to be able to complete content. If you look at bloodborne, it is the same thing. You can beat the game without ever leveling up to gain more stats, defensively or offensively. Granted this is incredibly difficult but there are youtube videos of this feat. Now a good percentage of the player base however require more tank traits inorder for them to get more leniency to completing the game. This is what stats offer in the game as well.

Dromar.1027:

EcoRI.9273:

Wait why is it that when I suggest a solution to something that is clearly broken, I am trolling? But not when you suggest something to fix berserker? I am supporting my claim with what other games did to solve mobility issues just like how everyone else is supporting trinity with other games as well.

First, they are two completely different games and Second, giving swiftness a chance to knock down would be a drastic punishment on players. The game would feel so slow that I would feel faster sitting in my computer chair.

Well isn’t gw2 completely different from other MMOs? And can’t the same be said about tanking feeling so slow? Again I just hate the fact that people with mobility skills can literally map clear hours faster than what I can do in Berserker gear with no mobility skills.

Jerus.4350:

Love it Eco, nerf swiftness for sure. So OP.

i think i just hit the motherload with this.

Dromar.1027:

EcoRI.9273:

Dromar.1027:

EcoRI.9273:

care to elaborate?

GW2 in a nutshell is actually a trinity system compressed into each class. This trinity comes in the form of Control, Support and Damage and unfortunately Damage takes all the glory because it is the only one that is needed; especially zerker. The reason for this is because Control is useless with defiance and a few niche support skills are all that is needed to ward off incoming damage while the party nukes everything down; the main culprits being reflection based skills and aegis. I also dislike the condition and boon system kitten much more could be done with it.

I’ve already stated how bad boss design is so I’ll leave it at that.

For your mobility issue I feel its not really a direct problem but another indirect. In most MMOs dungeon mobs will follow you until either they die or you do and I see too many people exploiting stealth.

I mean they did that in smash brothers! So it must be good!

Now your just trolling.

Wait why is it that when I suggest a solution to something that is clearly broken, I am trolling? But not when you suggest something to fix berserker? I am supporting my claim with what other games did to solve mobility issues just like how everyone else is supporting trinity with other games as well.

Dromar.1027:

EcoRI.9273:

care to elaborate?

GW2 in a nutshell is actually a trinity system compressed into each class. This trinity comes in the form of Control, Support and Damage and unfortunately Damage takes all the glory because it is the only one that is needed; especially zerker. The reason for this is because Control is useless with defiance and a few niche support skills are all that is needed to ward off incoming damage while the party nukes everything down; the main culprits being reflection based skills and aegis. I also dislike the condition and boon system kitten much more could be done with it.

I’ve already stated how bad boss design is so I’ll leave it at that.

For your mobility issue I feel its not really a direct problem but another indirect. In most MMOs dungeon mobs will follow you until either they die or you do and I see too many people exploiting stealth.

Well at least there is a counter to berserker which is you die easier if you mess up and then you have to restart, but look at mobility! There is no counter play, its all pros and no cons. I think they should introduce a chance to slip while running with swiftness or using a movement skill like the warrior rush attack. I mean they did that in smash brothers when wave dashing too much! So it must be good!

care to elaborate?

PS mobility is a huge problem. Believe it or not more pugs don’t know that it exists and should they ever give swiftness and use running skills you can literally save HOURS!!! map clearing and minutes in dungeons. I am the type of player that doesn’t like mobility skills and honestly I feel its unfair that these guys can map clear and dungeon clear so much faster than how I like the game to be played.

Dromar.1027:

EcoRI.9273:

Dromar.1027:

EcoRI.9273:

Dromar.1027:

EcoRI.9273:

Um lets be real here guys. Running is the meta, not DPS. What we need to do is nerf mobility so no one can speed run anymore! PS. its called speed run for a reason, otherwise it be speed killing dungeons or speed killing map completion.

The goal is to create team variety with the armor sets; not make the game slower.

But I don’t get it, if there is a dodge button why do I need a tank? You know there is a cool way of tanking? You cripple the boss, get swiftness and just run circles around him. Another reason to nerf mobility!

That is more along the lines of bad boss design.

So afking with tank gear isn’t? At least when I am crippling and running around I need to maintain my swiftness, cripple and stay in perfect max melee positioing.

I restate my previous point that it is a design flaw for someone to afk tank a boss or one person to endlessly CC while whittling it down. I dont know what games you have been playing but tanks usually need a healer to stay alive and dps to efficiently down it.
Mobility is not the problem since GW2’s is slower than most games but I admire your thinking outside the box though.

So your complaint is that this game has no need for tanks and healers?

Dromar.1027:

EcoRI.9273:

Dromar.1027:

EcoRI.9273:

Um lets be real here guys. Running is the meta, not DPS. What we need to do is nerf mobility so no one can speed run anymore! PS. its called speed run for a reason, otherwise it be speed killing dungeons or speed killing map completion.

The goal is to create team variety with the armor sets; not make the game slower.

But I don’t get it, if there is a dodge button why do I need a tank? You know there is a cool way of tanking? You cripple the boss, get swiftness and just run circles around him. Another reason to nerf mobility!

That is more along the lines of bad boss design.

So afking with tank gear isn’t? At least when I am crippling and running around I need to maintain my swiftness, cripple and stay in perfect max melee positioing.

Dromar.1027:

EcoRI.9273:

Um lets be real here guys. Running is the meta, not DPS. What we need to do is nerf mobility so no one can speed run anymore! PS. its called speed run for a reason, otherwise it be speed killing dungeons or speed killing map completion.

The goal is to create team variety with the armor sets; not make the game slower.

But You know there is a cool way of tanking? You cripple the boss, get swiftness and just run circles around him. Another reason to nerf mobility!

Um lets be real here guys. Running is the meta, not DPS. What we need to do is nerf mobility so no one can speed run anymore! PS. its called speed run for a reason, otherwise it be speed killing dungeons or speed killing map completion.

oh god now no one’s going to take my baits q.q. But in all seriousness there are some truths to what I talk about.

I wonder how people will respond to my comment :-\.

I am pretty sure I can run a faster dungeon tour than zerker pugs while having all my teammates wearing PTV gear. Just saying….

im kinda afraid to ask whos atse lawl

oh you know what else would be sick?! when you cast black powder, you drop rings whenever you move and as long as your teammates touch it, every1 gains 1second of stealth. You get to play snake and sonic at the same time!! Lets be real way more immersive than blasting stealth.

I already have it ready winter :-D.

nah hundred blades routes you in place so you wont be “picking” anything up.

i guess im the only one that likes draven mechanics q.q

Iris Ng.9845:

EcoRI.9273:

Jerus.4350:

EcoRI.9273:

serenke.4806:

Iris Ng.9845:

maha.7902:

Iris Ng.9845:

“Mesmer” and “overpowered” in one sentence. For PvE, I think not… Blurred Frenzy would be the most used skill, while Portal would be the most characteristic.

well what other game mode do you think this thread could be about, when it’s stuck in to the fractals and dungeons forum?

Mesmer has no skills that would be considered triviallizing an encounter, or namely “overpowered”. If you say Feedback can nuke Lupi then Wall of Reflection could do the same thing. Is it overpowered enough to guarantee a nerf (which happens to to skills such as FGS, ice bow, black powder or healing signet)? Nope, I think not.

Untraited Warden used to be borderline overpowered. Right now none of the mesmer skills are worth called overpowered, in PvE.

No need to be hypersensitive. I don’t intend to open any debate over every single game modes here.

The OP did not really go with skills that trivialize encounters. Because banner of discipline sure is not doing that.

Well can’t think of anything else on a warrior’s kit that is more OP than disc banner.

Phalanx Strength? faceroll max might is quite OP

if only phalanx str was a skill. But yea that trait is stupid OP. I kind of wished there was a more skillful interaction with PS than just button mashing. Imagine if Phalanx str work this way: Everytime you sucessfully crit, the enemy drops an “essence of strength” in a random area around it. If you “pick it up” before this essence lands on the ground, you and your party gain 3stacks of might. Kind of like draven axe in league. So SICK!!1

Holding F while pressing 1. How does it make any difference? .__."

oh no, draven axe requires you to stand at a certain spot inorder for the skill to refresh. You don’t physically pick anything up. Think of it as intentionally getting hit by a small bloomhunger blossom attack to gain a buff.

maha.7902:

i hope that was a joke because that actually sounds like a terrible idea

Thats your opinion.

Jerus.4350:

EcoRI.9273:

serenke.4806:

Iris Ng.9845:

maha.7902:

Iris Ng.9845:

“Mesmer” and “overpowered” in one sentence. For PvE, I think not… Blurred Frenzy would be the most used skill, while Portal would be the most characteristic.

well what other game mode do you think this thread could be about, when it’s stuck in to the fractals and dungeons forum?

Mesmer has no skills that would be considered triviallizing an encounter, or namely “overpowered”. If you say Feedback can nuke Lupi then Wall of Reflection could do the same thing. Is it overpowered enough to guarantee a nerf (which happens to to skills such as FGS, ice bow, black powder or healing signet)? Nope, I think not.

Untraited Warden used to be borderline overpowered. Right now none of the mesmer skills are worth called overpowered, in PvE.

No need to be hypersensitive. I don’t intend to open any debate over every single game modes here.

The OP did not really go with skills that trivialize encounters. Because banner of discipline sure is not doing that.

Well can’t think of anything else on a warrior’s kit that is more OP than disc banner.

Phalanx Strength? faceroll max might is quite OP

if only phalanx str was a skill. But yea that trait is stupid OP. I kind of wished there was a more skillful interaction with PS than just button mashing. Imagine if Phalanx str work this way: Everytime you sucessfully crit, the enemy drops an “essence of strength” in a random area around it. If you “pick it up” before this essence lands on the ground, you and your party gain 3stacks of might. Kind of like draven axe in league. So SICK!!1

serenke.4806:

Iris Ng.9845:

maha.7902:

Iris Ng.9845:

“Mesmer” and “overpowered” in one sentence. For PvE, I think not… Blurred Frenzy would be the most used skill, while Portal would be the most characteristic.

well what other game mode do you think this thread could be about, when it’s stuck in to the fractals and dungeons forum?

Mesmer has no skills that would be considered triviallizing an encounter, or namely “overpowered”. If you say Feedback can nuke Lupi then Wall of Reflection could do the same thing. Is it overpowered enough to guarantee a nerf (which happens to to skills such as FGS, ice bow, black powder or healing signet)? Nope, I think not.

Untraited Warden used to be borderline overpowered. Right now none of the mesmer skills are worth called overpowered, in PvE.

No need to be hypersensitive. I don’t intend to open any debate over every single game modes here.

The OP did not really go with skills that trivialize encounters. Because banner of discipline sure is not doing that.

Well can’t think of anything else on a warrior’s kit that is more OP than disc banner.

phys.7689:

EcoRI.9273:

phys.7689:

EcoRI.9273:

Well its because Guardian also has a timewarp. In the current dungeon setting, tome of wrath’s 5sec quickness is enough to nuke most bosses. So in terms of DPS guardian is better. Where mesmers shine is their ability to run ahead of the group and provide portals to reduce the time to get from point A to point B. However this strategy prevents the mesmer from getting loot, which is why you only see mesmers being played in record runs.

then a mes can now double that quickness time, with signet of inspiration, without taking the CM line.

Don’t need double the quickness time for a single encounter when the boss is dead within 5seconds.

then why woould you want the CM at all?

I guess best way to sum it up is your agrument for mesmer being useless is irrelevant to chronomancer(CM?). You are saying no one takes mesmers in the current meta, chronomancer is future meta and the one thing it has is you can have time warp up for more encounters.

phys.7689:

EcoRI.9273:

Well its because Guardian also has a timewarp. In the current dungeon setting, tome of wrath’s 5sec quickness is enough to nuke most bosses. So in terms of DPS guardian is better. Where mesmers shine is their ability to run ahead of the group and provide portals to reduce the time to get from point A to point B. However this strategy prevents the mesmer from getting loot, which is why you only see mesmers being played in record runs.

then a mes can now double that quickness time, with signet of inspiration, without taking the CM line.

Don’t need double the quickness time for a single encounter when the boss is dead within 5seconds also atm quickness is not a boon. I am commenting on why no one takes mesmer in their party in the current meta.

Well its because Guardian also has a timewarp. In the current dungeon setting, tome of wrath’s 5sec quickness is enough to nuke most bosses. So in terms of DPS guardian is better. Where mesmers shine is their ability to run ahead of the group and provide portals to reduce the time to get from point A to point B. However this strategy prevents the mesmer from getting loot, which is why you only see mesmers being played in record runs.

Thaddeus.4891:

EcoRI.9273:

I never said changing gear would be the optimal solution. I strongly believe that zerker will always be optimal. However the player skill required to play berserker will be higher if they do make a 90% dps nerf in a hypothetical situation. Why? Players will actually need to dodge correctly and use their skills wisely.

So like most regular on the dungeon subforum you agree that the current meta or game isn’t a problem at all (with some minor fixing). It’s the content that is too old/easy.

This was arguing for the sake of arguing. (I don’t mean you, but both of us).

There is meta gear.(Berserker)
There is meta build.(Power line dominance)
There is meta team comps.(1thief 2ele 1 guard 1w)
There is meta strategies.(icebow nuking)

I believe that meta team comp and meta strategies are a problem.

1: Currently the meta comp offers almost everything for a group to do dungeons/fotm smoothly. There is almost no tradeoff. You get vuln/might/fury/swiftness/aegis/condi removal/stealth. I would prefer that in a 5man setting I have to make a decision to sacrifice some sort of party utility. In order to do so they will have to rework alot of class skills and make certain utilities more exclusive. For example let’s say we nerf persisting flames on ele and give rangers perma fury on that sun spirit. Rangers will immediately have a place in dungeons. Same thing with vuln, if we make high vuln stacking only possible on engis then I feel we will have interesting choices.

Two eles for front loaded burst or 1 ele/1ranger for more sustain dps.

engie over thief for more vuln but worse stealthing.

remove guardian for more dps.

2: Pretty self explanatory, the ability to instantly nuke bosses should be removed.

Zui.9245:

EcoRI.9273:

So I have been VODing some of my casual dungeon runs, and some has been like pretty close to all time record runs o_0.

Links? :P

http://www.twitch.tv/eco_r_i/c/6675855
Less than 1 minute difference!! hehe

So I have been VODing some of my casual dungeon runs, and some has been like pretty close to all time record runs o_0.

Thaddeus.4891:

EcoRI.9273:

Thaddeus.4891:

EcoRI.9273:

No way if damage was nerfed this badly, I’d imagine everyone and their grandma to be on their floor mopping their tears after getting rekted.

A 9000% nerf? I bet people would be on their floor mopping their tears after the hours they took to kill the first boss. But people solo in zerker, which is about a 90-95% nerf compare to a group of 5 buffing each other. So ya, we’ll need a freaking high amount of nerf before it change anything.

Solo is pretty challenging. If you don’t think it is then I guess I just suck in this game.

It’s pretty challenging, but it doesn’t make me change my gear to soldier or take a AH guardian build. And I don’t do solo that much anymore, but in the limited time I practice I was able to drop my time doing Arah path 2 solo from 2hours to around 30min. It they make a 90-95% nerf, it won’t be more challenging. It will just take longer.

I never said changing gear would be the optimal solution. I strongly believe that zerker will always be optimal. However the player skill required to play berserker will be higher if they do make a 90% dps nerf in a hypothetical situation. Why? Players will actually need to dodge correctly and use their skills wisely.

Thaddeus.4891:

EcoRI.9273:

No way if damage was nerfed this badly, I’d imagine everyone and their grandma to be on their floor mopping their tears after getting rekted.

A 9000% nerf? I bet people would be on their floor mopping their tears after the hours they took to kill the first boss. But people solo in zerker, which is about a 90-95% nerf compare to a group of 5 buffing each other. So ya, we’ll need a freaking high amount of nerf before it change anything.

Solo is pretty challenging. If you don’t think it is then I guess I just suck in this game.

maha.7902:

EcoRI.9273:

Thaddeus.4891:

EcoRI.9273:

I don’t really care about the difficulty of dungeons at this point of the game because as every one has said, the content is 3years old therefore its easy but I honestly feel without icebow in FOTM, that 3year old content is still challenging.

And if they removed Icebow, we gonna have the same discussion. They said the same thing about the ferocity nerf, how it would change the meta, etc, etc and stuff would be more challenging, etc, etc and see what happened? Nothing. They can continue to nerf our DPS, we’ll still find ways to complete dungeon super fast.

Yeah probably but it will be challenging for a while until people figure out the next OP strat. And in MY ideal world if I was in charge of balancing gw2, I would probably nerf that dominant strategy in a month after its discovery. This was basically how GW1 was balanced and it kept the game fresh(at least for me).

but people didn’t use icebow for a long time and were still able to get through high level fractals just fine, hell i’m pretty sure people did fractal 79 without icebows since eles were barely even a thing back then.

yes, I agree to a nerf on icebow but I don’t agree to your rationale. it won’t suddenly make ancient content challenging, it just removes an extremely, overwhelmingly dominating utility out of the meta and enables the other classes to feel a little more on par until people come up with the next big thing. hell, it might still be stacking eles but for some other reason.

I never got to fotm 80 so i can not really say whether it was difficult to reach that level. But I don’t expect content to be impossible with icebow nerf. I just expect more chances of wipes to happen due to poor positioning,dodging, aggro/ aegis rotations.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

EcoRI.9273:

Yeah probably but it will be challenging for a while until people figure out the next OP strat. And in MY ideal world if I was in charge of balancing gw2, I would probably nerf that dominant strategy in a month after its discovery. This was basically how GW1 was balanced and it kept the game fresh(at least for me).

Or you could, you know, add more content. Or alter the content, so that the players have to try different strategies to beat it.

Nerfing ability, after ability endlessly tends to weigh people down. Poor business strategy.

O I would love that! But I don’t think Anet can afford it. Balancing is just a cheaper alternative.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

EcoRI.9273:

I don’t really care about the difficulty of dungeons at this point of the game because as every one has said, the content is 3years old therefore its easy but I honestly feel without icebow in FOTM, that 3year old content is still challenging.

Even if you nerf all damage in this game for 9000% 3 years old content will still be faceroll. Boring and slow faceroll. We need new mechanics not braindead damage nerf. And only way to implement this new mechanics is to make new dungeons.

No way if damage was nerfed this badly, I’d imagine everyone and their grandma to be on their floor mopping their tears after getting rekted.

Thaddeus.4891:

EcoRI.9273:

I don’t really care about the difficulty of dungeons at this point of the game because as every one has said, the content is 3years old therefore its easy but I honestly feel without icebow in FOTM, that 3year old content is still challenging.

And if they removed Icebow, we gonna have the same discussion. They said the same thing about the ferocity nerf, how it would change the meta, etc, etc and stuff would be more challenging, etc, etc and see what happened? Nothing. They can continue to nerf our DPS, we’ll still find ways to complete dungeon super fast.

Yeah probably but it will be challenging for a while until people figure out the next OP strat. And in MY ideal world if I was in charge of balancing gw2, I would probably nerf that dominant strategy in a month after its discovery. This was basically how GW1 was balanced and it kept the game fresh(at least for me).

maha.7902:

EcoRI.9273:

maha.7902:

EcoRI.9273:

So I have been doing fotm lately with LOD and I have to say, the berserker team comp meta is seriously trivializing the content. Mossman gets nuked past 50% with 1 icebow freeze combo. Archdiviner’s daze with meteor shower precast followed by icebow freeze combo trivialized him. Svanir in snowblind gets nuked and literally die before teleporting up. Imbued grawl shaman icebow freeze after his bubble pops is a little too OP. Mai trin stealth icebow nuke is OP if the warrior or guard can face tank mai.

pretty sure you mean “playing with decent players is trivialising content”.

your random pug in full berserker probably isn’t melting bosses at fractal 50.

Yes, and I would prefer content to be challenging even with decent players which I feel can be accomplished by nerfing icebow and maybe a little on meteor shower.

except it won’t

we did a 4w/1g dungeon tour months ago and it was just brain afk smash your face on keyboard.

no eles required, content being three years old makes it trivial and boring.

I don’t really care about the difficulty of dungeons at this point of the game because as every one has said, the content is 3years old therefore its easy but I honestly feel without icebow in FOTM, that 3year old content is still challenging.