Guild Wars 2

wow that is like a perfect image to summarize this thread.

I love pug hardmore on boss fights. I don’t like pug hardmode on trashmobs.

I don’t think enemies dodging in this game is good mainly because of how the combat system is implemented. In terms of fighting mobs, it gets pretty chaotic where 4 of your teammates are casting their attacks/spells almost nonstop. There are games that center around dodge/block mechanics. In the Witcher, enemies will almost always dodge/block(90% chance) my attacks if I try to attack them straight up. The way to counter their dodge/blocks is 3ways:
1: I can use my super limited CC skills to stun them and go in for the attack.
2: I can counter attack them when they are about to attack.
3: I can side dodge their attack and hit them from behind.

Why this would suck in gw2:
1: Using CC in gw2 never feels smart, it always feel like its a spamfest.
2: Getting your teammates to stop attacking a enemy to force them out of a block/dodge stance is impossible feat in pugs.
3: Counterattacks are fun when its in melee range as there is a risk involved. GW2 is range focused. Counter attack is also a form of stun which is not implemented in GW2’s engine.
4: Back hitting to counter block does not exist in gw2. There are too many targets a enemy can target which means their backs are pretty easy to get to for 4/5 members.

So ive been playing witcher3 religiously and lemme tell you getting hit by enemies offscreen sucks worse because of their immersive camera system

yeah the game implemented a new feature where if you kick some1 with sub 1k AP, they will kick you too for even trying such a heinous act. It’s a way for the game to prevent AP elitism. Sorry for your loss tho.

1: I heard there was a way to dup the stones for the champ shaman regardless of class, does anyone know how?
2: Dredge bomb part, I was able to do a 9 in 1 bomb drop but don’t know how it happened exactly, does any1 have a concrete way of replicating this?

Purple Miku.7032:

EcoRI.9273:

if you don’t nuke down molten duo and leave the berserker last, it is probably one of the best boss fights in the game.

I personally hate this encounter atm because it’s one of the buggiest in the game.

Not only are some of the aoes from firestorm completely invisible but almost all of the aoe indicators appear either as you’re already getting hit or afterwards, which is stupid. They need to upgrade the indicators like they did with bloomhunger so it’s not completely RNG.

I agree it is more interesting though if you do what you say, but I have only killed firestorm before berserker once ever tbh and that was around when this boss was first released xD

Oh man I used to troll my casual guild group all the time by DPS racing the firestorm vs the berserker. Usually I would win because they were all tank gear tank trait and constantly got agro. I probably fought the berserker last like 10 times before my guildies started raging at me to stop doing that. :-D

spoj.9672:

EcoRI.9273:

if you don’t nuke down molten duo and leave the berserker last, it is probably one of the best boss fights in the game.

It can also be the most frustrating because of how those fire fields work. And then theres the berserkers auto attack which is basically an almost perma melee denial for squishy classes.

Its definitely a better fight. But its not great either.

You can stand behind him when hes using the melee autos. The one being targeted just need to know to dodge backwards.

if you don’t nuke down molten duo and leave the berserker last, it is probably one of the best boss fights in the game.

Nah real elitists need to be in the exclusive club at all cost

wow sam please have my babies.

I have 4 lvl80 thief toons,1 lvl80 warrior,2 lvl 80guardians, 1lvl 80 mesmer, 1lvl80 ele, 1lvl80 engie, 1lvl80 ranger, and 0 necros :-)

Can I get a TL:DW of the video plz?

doing lupi all day everyday can make any1 good at lupi. Bugged skill dont matter. hell i know some1 who solos with a xbox360 controller

I know everyone has standards to killing lupi. be it walling /off wall/wor exploit/fgs exploit/ice bow exploit/energy sigils. A kill is a kill gais

Wait whats wrong with the other terms for female kittens?

70 here. Can confirm.

Element Two.7316:

EcoRI.9273:

I am 99% sure getting hit by cannons mid air is caused by people jumping which causes the AoE rings to be displayed incorrectly. If no one jumps, I never had an issue where I got hit standing outside of the circle.

Miku is banned from the forums but he asked me to reply with this
“http://www.twitch.tv/purpleishawt/c/6245205”

maybe the warrior in the party jumped? Its hard to tell in that video but its a possibility.

I am 99% sure getting hit by cannons mid air is caused by people jumping which causes the AoE rings to be displayed incorrectly. If no one jumps, I never had an issue where I got hit standing outside of the circle.

So if you watch any record run, I am sure you notice that a lot of the time, player inventories are up for armor/weapon swapping, trait windows are up for trait swapping. Now I do that myself too because it is the most optimal way to play the game, however I personally find that pretty annoying and unfun. Personally I would love for Anet to allow us to have build templates where traits/armor/weapon/sigil/runes stats are all switched with the press of a button. Or do it pvp style where once you load in, you are forced to run the specific traits/weapons/armor/sigil/rune.

Well if they do make tank rooms they either have to restrict armor swapping/trait swapping in raid instances otherwise it makes no sense as most will just put on tank for that part and then put on dps after. It will be annoying as hell.

I dont play necro so i dont know how good they are at solo vs other classes condi and power wise. Lets assume that their solo is superior with hot release and that “raids” have split tactics that promote soloing, necros can be meta

us navy seals cornerstack. Source: every war movie.

actually its correct and has always been like that, Anet rounds down so when you have 2.99seconds it shows as 2 in the tooltip area. think of the 0 as any number from 0-0.99. If you use black powder and blinding powder, you will see 5(think 5.999) seconds on the tooltip. As with SR you get:
3X5 = 15seconds of stealth – 4seconds(since your first stealth tick is wasted afking in SR) you get 11seconds of stealth uptime after SR ends. 10(10.99)seconds on tool tip for after SR ends.

So let’s assume that in HoT, when you exit stealth without attacking, you get a revealed debuff, will that change anything in PvE? I can’t think of anything to suggest a big nerf.

laokoko.7403:

OP, why are you even comparing yourself to pug. You guys are a coordinate group who run dungeon often together everyday. Of course you guys are better.

I’m a strictly pug person. Often I meet people who never even run the dungeon before. Very often some inexperienced died while they are skipping mobs. And the group are forced to wait for them.

I ran a cof pug, and we spend 5 minutes running the boulderzer, even though I run it successfully every time. So in the end I’m forced to switch to a necro/mesmer to continue.

If you are a well coordinate group of people and want to prove a point to “other speed run groups” mobility matters. That’s fine with me. But please stop comparing yourself to pug, since that’s a bit disheartening.

More that players as a whole should stop being so caught up with gear when it’s tactics and good use of utility/support skills that makes runs go smooth and quick. If people focused on utilizing those to their fullest instead we’d probably have faster PUG runs too

Can confirm, walled lupi before “bug”, walled lupi after “bug”. When my group changed lupi strat and decided to do lupi legitly with a new guardian in group, I don’t really find the fight anymore challenging in a 5man setting. In fact if you do it right with guardian and nuking lupi at phase 2 to the point where he is almost dead in phase 3 nothing changes. So this “bug” is really only hurting the pugs and not organized groups.

Question: do you think a mesmer would be better than a guardian here? I can see the mesmer running ahead of the group for the first 2 leg seals and portal every1 to the body seal. Portal on arms seal is obviously OP.Temporal curtain allows you to pull the mobs that spawn on the phases of archie quicker.

only the most cancerous NPC in all of GW2 :-D

@Iris I don’t think people will believe that all 5 will be running Nomads since it is hard to proof that.
@Nyx do you mean bringing random classes?
@Ranael, although I do think downscaling is a problem, the main message that clever use of mechanics/strategy is still true even for level 80 dungeons to some extend. Granted DPS is more significant in lvl80, it is not the be all and end all. Running is still the most important. If you look at the arah p1 record, the mesmer is used mainly for running purposes, not DPS. Here is a lvl80 coe p3 trio http://www.twitch.tv/eco_r_i/c/6431555. It is still faster than most 5man berserker only pugs because of the strategies used.

With the new player experience, I had no traits lmao.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I appreciate the message you’re trying to convey, Eco, but I don’t think this is the right audience. I mean, every speed running guild member who views these forums already knows the importance of team support. Every argument against or for anything in meaningful discussions (I’ve read them all) for the past forever invokes team support. The only people who talk about damage like it is the end-all-be-all of dungeon clearing are bad players who don’t yet know better. Even the people who think going fast or berserker gear is an exploit are more common here than your target audience. :P

It was originally in the general discussion forum but got moved by a modQ.Q

Talyn.3295:

EcoRI.9273:

too bad twitch/reddit and youtube weren’t as popular back then. Imagine the kitten storm gw1 would’ve had for their pve?!

Good point. Ever think if there weren’t so many videos showing how good a person could be at the game we wouldn’t have an anti-zerker thread every other day?

I think there will be less complaints for sure. Speed is all relative, if people believe that 30 minute AC runs are normal, they wouldn’t be complaining in my opinion.

winterchillz.2564:

Deleted my female guardian and first character Aurora; currently re-rolling a Charr in her place.

Bring on the tides of war! Charr!

I’m making a male asura thief. Death of human female meta incoming!.

laokoko.7403:

EcoRI.9273:

laokoko.7403:

There are probably trio record even faster than your 5 man.

So if 3zerkers are faster than 4/5zerkers, what does that mean? That zerker DPS is not that important for speed right?

No it means your group is not as good as the other group.

Okay so speed running requires skill and not because of zerker gear. I’m fine with that.

welp no point now since its been moved to dungeon forum where most people understand what speed is.

laokoko.7403:

There are probably trio record even faster than your 5 man.

So if 3zerkers are faster than 4/5zerkers, what does that mean? That zerker DPS is not that important for speed right?

Aenesthesia.1697:

if the guys being carried bring some support that doesn’t scale with gear (like blinds, invis, blocks) they may even prove useful even if they are not lvl 80 zerkers.

Yep!

Most people fail to see past the DPS of class. Support is actually way more important to a team.

Think of these two scenarios for dungeons like CM/TA/ARAH:
1: Thief is pure DPS, will not support the team what so ever in blind, stealth, CC.
2: Thief is pure support, no DPS.

Which do you think will make the dungeon go more smoothly and faster?
The point I am making is support from thief is far more important than the DPS it offers. This logic can also be applied to other classes.

I can do a full 5man naked dungeon tour if you guys want, it will probably still be faster than most “zerker only” pugs.

Thank you Wethospu and Enaretos for making my message more clear. :-)

Many of you guys have been saying that DPS is the only thing that matters in dungeons. Well I made a video showing how I was able to speed run as a lvl60 thief 0 dps pure support in blind, defiance crowd control, and stealth.

http://www.twitch.tv/eco_r_i/c/6705679
Here is the video to show the speed.
TL:DW
CM averaged 5minutes each.
TA averaged 7 minutes each.
SE p1 was 5minutes.
SE p3 was 7minutes.

lol the admins are going to have a good time for the next few weeks.

NikeEU.7690:

EcoRI.9273:

Everything except for corner stacking and that ac story sounded like legit reasons to me.

So you think weapon swapping in hero panel/inventory is an exploit? You agree with him that chain immobilize is an exploit? You think managing defiant through team coordinator to land powerful CC is an exploit? You think use stability, reflects and aegis to prevent cc, block projectiles and stop big hits is an exploit?

Face it, the guy barely makes a coherent point and is basically been carrying a 2 year case of BM because his condi-Necro build is garbage. He is just a more verbose variant of the people who want the game changed radically so his special snowflake build is meta.

I think weapon swapping in hero panel/inventory is lame. I would prefer to have a button that does it automatically for me. Kind of like what they did in gw1 with the 4weapon sets.(Build/gear templates please anet) Icebow 5 is lame, I personally think alot of hard CCs don’t work well in this game. There are some exceptions like Mai Trin when not cheesing with stealth. That fight has a good implementation of smart use of the hard CCs currently in the game. I don’t like that guardians can get over 40seconds of constant projectile protection. It is pretty passive play which goes counter to the active playstyle of gw2. I would prefer a lower duration lower cooldown system where players have to react to the projectiles to reflect them.

His main argument was that berserker is too dominant and too good and that nuking bosses down in under 5seconds is lame. That I agree with.

too bad twitch/reddit and youtube weren’t as popular back then. Imagine the kitten storm gw1 would’ve had for their pve?!

Ok so I watched Nemesis’s video on berserker meta. Everything except for corner stacking and that ac story sounded like legit reasons to me. The problem really is two things I feel.

1: People expecting a holy trinity(which I disagree with).

2: Build diversity or playstyle diversity within a class.(This i agree with).

Thief is like Night sigil, if you are lazy and just want to carry around one weapon set(aka 1 team comp), night(thief) being the best fit for 5/8dungeons is good enough a reason to be meta for casual runs.

Gear is just a scapegoat. Think of it this way; if we remove all stats in gear and all stats in the traitline, will the most effective builds in pve change?

Shouts that grants magic find too all your party members. BOOM! must have for casual runs.

Cuddy.6247:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Just in case you are confused, the “tools” I am mentioning are any item used to reduce time that it takes to clear a dungeon. The RNG aspect of items dropped from bags does not negate the fact that you tend to make more money if you complete the same dungeon faster (or complete the dungeon more times in the same span of time) than someone who is not speedrunning.

Exactly how does speedclearing improve your rewards? Oh right, it doesn’t. If you want to make more: get a job, get another job, get a better job or play the trading post. Speedclearing is a joke.

lets be real, playing the trading post and using money to buy things in gw2 breaks the immersion.

Garth Thurgen.1380:

EcoRI.9273:

Currently as long as you have 1 guard,1ele,1thief,1warrior, dungeons will be fast regardless of what you bring as a 5th. Yes necros will be slower than everything else but by how much? Probably less than 10 seconds in a casual run compared to the other 2nd tier classes(mes,ranger,engi). And probably 30seconds compared to a second ele. A large part of dungeons in todays meta is really just running from point A to point B. DPS is hardly a huge factor as most of you think.

TL:DR necros are viable to bring to casual runs. Gimmick allows necros to be viable in record runs.

Do you really believe that all of the people (or at least most of them) complaining about Necros not being viable are doing so because it’s not viable in a record run? And especially ones that actually have the “meta shell” of the 1 Guard/1 Ele/1 Thief/1 Warrior?

While there are many irrelevant complaints towards the problems that necros have, as there are always people who strictly want to see their class be on top and don’t care about anything else, a fair amount of the complaints are done from people who want a good enough reason to log onto their Necro for serious-ish play. They aren’t the people that will ever do a speed run in real terms (only a pale shade of what is actually done), they’re the people who will just PUG up a dungeon and go from there. Their goal? Not to get banned (and while I’ve never actually seen it happen in my hundreds of runs, I’ve never played one of the classes that it would be a problem in), and to be a indisputable part of a team in terms of being relevant.

And you’re right about them being fine in a casual setting. It’s why I’ve never banned the thousands of Necros that I’ve seen in dungeon runs (the record for that being three Necros on a single team, with the other not-me person being a Ranger). However, that doesn’t change the perception of the class, nor does it change the fact that they’re the only class that doesn’t fill a relevant role in any dungeon composition. In this game, the meta is perception, and Necros are easily in the worst spot as is.

I don’t know what to say, there really is no meta in pugging. It is all over the place. If you are talking about the “berserkers only or I kick” pugs in LFG, those guys are usually pretty bad at the game and are just sheeps that try to copy what Nike runs on stream.

I think the fact that necros are the worst of the 8 classes, this makes good players more likely to not want to play them. What then happens is the reputation of necros is pretty much soiled by alot bad players playing them. I know for the longest time I hated thiefs and thought they were total garbage because of the players running them in pugs.(I still hate thiefs in pugs more than I hate necros.)