Guild Wars 2

RockonHarder.7235:

Blix.8021:

Diashame.6328:

I think magooomba are in the exact same position as FA. We’re going to bounce between t2/3 and mags between t3/4

And DB going to be stuck in the middle for a long time. We have enough asians to stomp tier 4 servers, not enough people in general to compete with tier 2.

Honestly i think DB is the only true tier 3 server. We’ll pretty much be stuck here until the end of time unless something major happens.

Nah,
We’re pretty much on par with Mag’s effectiveness as long as they’re making a concentrated effort to win (And not have some significant portion of their server trying to get them back to tier 4). Though, I’m excited to see us vs. Yak’s again.

Mag’s definitely better than tier 4. The problem is that us and Mag’s are the only servers that seem to belong in tier 3 right now. And one of the two of us doesn’t seem to really want to be here. FA or TC needs to drop a few guilds and then we’ll be a really competitive tier

RockonHarder.7235:

JaNordy.6149:

This is by far the most tame Magermma thread Ive ever seen. Seriously if anyone thinks there is whining/crying/trolling in this thread then you clearly have not read any other Maggie threads. I bet mods are loving this current one.

Actually the mods are been keeping it clean. i know this because a number of my reply’s have been removed because of the OP was removed.

Maybe they’ve realized that they’re closing just about every tier’s matchup thread every week and new ones just get posted 5 minutes later with absolutely no change in tone :P

Makes more sense for them to just keep the current one tidied up

Furiousbeard.7602:

This match up is starting to be decided before we even start playing. Friday night is very even. Saturday tilts in FA favor. Monday’s positions mirror Friday’s positions.

I have really enjoyed this battle vs Mag and DB. Both servers have really good players and guilds.

It feels like FA is pretty solid in tier 3, but we are not quite tier 2 yet. Maybe in the future as we attract more players for our off peak hours.

All the best everybody!

I think in general there is too much of a gap between tiers anyway.
Hopefully with paid transfers servers will get stacked with new guilds less frequently and different tiers will begin to balance out (As new players purchase the game and join lower-pop servers)

The closer in coverage/skill/effectiveness/whateveryouwannacallit between tiers, the more volatile matches can be (As in, if all tiers were close in skill, you would actually get to fight different servers every week instead of sitting in the same matchups for a month+)

Seige.4862:

The point of that post being?

Seemingly about as valid as the post I was replying to. And seemingly more valid than the point of the post I am replying to now.

The people complaining about Confusion being unbalanced and OP are making it out like the second you identify a Confusion Mesmer in front of you, you’ve already lost the battle. ((There was talk a few pages ago about Confusion being an iWin button))

Which is simply not true.
What IS true, is the people who say that confusion is only unbalanced and OP against bad players.
It is effective against good players, yes. But it is not going to guarantee you victory.

If you defeat a good player using Confusion, it means that you have outplayed your opponent and lured them into using skills at a time they shouldn’t have.

If you defeat a bad player using Confusion, it doesn’t mean anything more than if you had been a thief who Steal→Backstab→CnD (Or whatever their ganking rotation is) to defeat that exact same bad player.

Confusion can kill you very quickly; correct.
But so can a GC Burst Build of just about any offensive class, and the direct damage approach would probably kill you quicker.

Seige.4862:

And here I am, to tell of a story.
I was engaged in small group combat, just a half hour ago.

Against three invaders trying to ninja through our garrison’s water gate.
And no, this is not a 3v1 story where I talk about how awesome I am at pvp

At one point during the fight, I notice I’m taking heavy damage everytime I do anything.
OH LOOK AT THAT,
10 stacks of confusion.

So I’m faced with this choice.
In this 3v1 situation, do I keep mashing buttons until I die or do I try to take the advice of everyone in this thread and just stop attacking for 3 seconds?
I decided to make an example out of the situation, so I turned away from them and ran for 3 seconds exactly.

Did I die?
Yes
Very few decent players would allow a mesmer 3 seconds of freedom. Unless they blinked which was another conf hit, stlhed another conf hit, or CA.

Moral of the story?
You fought some baddies :P

Imagine that…
Battles against confusion mesmers can be won or lost… based on whether your opponent is more skilled than you or not…

It’s almost like… Any battle could be won or lost… o;

Holy kittening revelation

Acelerion.6820:

Its funny because all these people telling the op he suck would get flat rolled if you ran into them.

No one is talking about common zergers btw. You won’t even see this stuff outside of high level play.

Isn’t the entire point of high level play to be more effective than the common zergers…?

Why put the effort into extra complex battle tactics when you would be just as effective facerolling?

And here I am, to tell of a story.
I was engaged in small group combat, just a half hour ago.

Against three invaders trying to ninja through our garrison’s water gate.
And no, this is not a 3v1 story where I talk about how awesome I am at pvp (I did defeat them though, but who’s stupid enough to fight a mesmer with a focus on a cliffside?)

At one point during the fight, I notice I’m taking heavy damage everytime I do anything.
OH LOOK AT THAT,
10 stacks of confusion.

So I’m faced with this choice.
In this 3v1 situation, do I keep mashing buttons until I die or do I try to take the advice of everyone in this thread and just stop attacking for 3 seconds?
I decided to make an example out of the situation, so I turned away from them and ran for 3 seconds exactly.

Did I die?
No.
Did the godly OP confusion stack kill me with no chance of victory?
Nope.

I turned back around after 3 seconds and flung them off a cliff.

Moral of the story?
l2p

kfarb.6732:

Doesn’t DB usually lead Maguuma in points? I’m confused what your point is.

We usually lead, yeah, but not by much.
DB and Maguuma (When maguuma is trying to win as a whole server) are pretty even in terms of effectiveness.

muylaetrix.2096:

EnRohbi.2187:

BrockMcCleery.9562:

EnRohbi.2187:

muylaetrix.2096:

EnRohbi.2187:

I honestly,
And without trolling or trying to start kitten,
Do not understand the problem people have with culling. At all.

i don’t think you undertand what culling is…

EnRohbi.2187:

Since the introduction of fallback models to help alleviate local culling…

yep, you don’t understand what culling is.

Fine, replace the word “culling” in my post with “asset load time” and then go back and write an actual reply to me. You know, like a human in a conversation.

Or did you not have anything to say except your condescending load of kitten?

RENDERING ==> client side
CULLING ==> server side

Asset load time is client side, you are discussing rendering which is a client side operation. Textures, models, etc. affect client side rendering and your rig quality will improve rendering.

Culling is when the server isn’t sending you information on nearby allies or enemies. It looks like you have 15 friendlies nearby when you really have 40+ nearby. Looks like 20 enemies when it is really 40+. You can notice this when many enemies are dieing to just a few allies, or vice versa. It is not 1337 skill taking place but server side culling.

Combined in this issue is lag where you hit ability buttons and nothing happens for a few seconds, or you are running away yet somehow still being hit by the AOE you just ran from.

I’m very well aware of the definition of culling, don’t worry.

The word is used interchangeably with asset load time because before the addition of fallback models, they were indistinguishable to the end user (As the culling time and rendering time would both just make things invisible). They were also both “addressed” in the same patch and with very related changes.
So with the exception of when I’m talking to forum warriors who have no argument and choose only to pick apart grammar and terminology, I just say “culling”.

culling affects everyone equally, fps lag affects everyone differently (or not at all) depending upon their hardware. the place holder affect fps lag. nothing Anet has done so far affects culling in a positive way.

Then explain to me why I don’t run into all these invisible armies everyone else is complaining about?

If culling affects everyone equally, then why, in my 5-10 hours every day in wvw, have I not had a problem with it since the patch?

Clearly it is not affecting everyone equally, like you say.
There is some other factor at play.

Fallback models aren’t related to fps lag, they’re related to asset load time. FPS lag is, essentially, a CPU or GPU problem, asset load times is more hard drive related.

BrockMcCleery.9562:

EnRohbi.2187:

muylaetrix.2096:

EnRohbi.2187:

I honestly,
And without trolling or trying to start kitten,
Do not understand the problem people have with culling. At all.

i don’t think you undertand what culling is…

EnRohbi.2187:

Since the introduction of fallback models to help alleviate local culling…

yep, you don’t understand what culling is.

Fine, replace the word “culling” in my post with “asset load time” and then go back and write an actual reply to me. You know, like a human in a conversation.

Or did you not have anything to say except your condescending load of kitten?

RENDERING ==> client side
CULLING ==> server side

Asset load time is client side, you are discussing rendering which is a client side operation. Textures, models, etc. affect client side rendering and your rig quality will improve rendering.

Culling is when the server isn’t sending you information on nearby allies or enemies. It looks like you have 15 friendlies nearby when you really have 40+ nearby. Looks like 20 enemies when it is really 40+. You can notice this when many enemies are dieing to just a few allies, or vice versa. It is not 1337 skill taking place but server side culling.

Combined in this issue is lag where you hit ability buttons and nothing happens for a few seconds, or you are running away yet somehow still being hit by the AOE you just ran from.

I’m very well aware of the definition of culling, don’t worry.

The word is used interchangeably with asset load time because before the addition of fallback models, they were indistinguishable to the end user (As the culling time and rendering time would both just make things invisible). They were also both “addressed” in the same patch and with very related changes.
So with the exception of when I’m talking to forum warriors who have no argument and choose only to pick apart grammar and terminology, I just say “culling”.

Ruprect.7260:

EnRohbi.2187:

I honestly,
And without trolling or trying to start kitten,
Do not understand the problem people have with culling. At all.

Since the introduction of fallback models to help alleviate local culling (That is, the culling that happens on your own computer while your hard drive loads character models), I have experienced almost no culling whatsoever in either zerg or small group combat.

I see a kitten lot of fallback models, but I haven’t been ganked by an invisible group since the patch or had any trouble finding my opponents in any sort of combat.

In a tier 3 server how often do you run into 40+ person portal bombs and 40-50+ person chained mesmer veils? That is where culling really shines. I am not trying to troll I am actually curious. I don’t recall FA doing a lot of that with the exception of a few guilds. Generally in a zerg of 15-20 on each side the culling isn’t all that bad, but in t2 we see a lot of 40+ man zergs. We have learned to try and move in really slow when we only see 5 or so because we know they will render really slowly and within about 5 seconds the whole zerg will be visible.

Even with 40+ ppl just running in we will hear, “about 5 coming in from the south”, then a few seconds later “wait, i mean 10” then a second later we are all dead and about 2 seconds after being dead you will see all 30-40+ of them. It makes it near impossible to defend. I have a good rig and evertyone renders fine, I have almost no lag most of the time. This is a serverside problem.

In a normal tier 3 match with the servers there right now, there are not a lot of 40 person portal bombs. But we also saw enough tier 2 population with Kaineng last week (As you are this week) to get a feel for what it’s like up there.

Admittedly, I wvwed less last week than usual, but I did not notice any hard problems with culling that I did not notice in other weeks or matches.

But yeah, I do speak from a tier 3 perspective. (Which is not at all a low tier)

muylaetrix.2096:

EnRohbi.2187:

I honestly,
And without trolling or trying to start kitten,
Do not understand the problem people have with culling. At all.

i don’t think you undertand what culling is…

EnRohbi.2187:

Since the introduction of fallback models to help alleviate local culling…

yep, you don’t understand what culling is.

Fine, replace the word “culling” in my post with “asset load time” and then go back and write an actual reply to me. You know, like a human in a conversation.

Or did you not have anything to say except your condescending load of kitten?

I honestly,
And without trolling or trying to start kitten,
Do not understand the problem people have with culling. At all.

Since the introduction of fallback models to help alleviate local culling (That is, the culling that happens on your own computer while your hard drive loads character models), I have experienced almost no culling whatsoever in either zerg or small group combat.

I see a kitten lot of fallback models, but I haven’t been ganked by an invisible group since the patch or had any trouble finding my opponents in any sort of combat.

ViperWire.4261:

People need a break, Kaineng put us on overtime, we are humans and have lives outside of GW2 and need rest. FA and DB get an easy week because of these factors.

Have you forgotten that DB was right there fighting Kaineng in the same match as you? :P

How do we get an easy week when we had just as much trouble with Kaineng as yourselves?

FA was going to win this week anyway, DB hasn’t changed a lot since our last fight with FA so it was pretty easy to predict this week’s outcome.

Sorry dude,

There are dozens of Jumping Puzzles in PvE that no one is going to gank you on your way through. They sound better suited to you.

But PvP is going to happen in the EB JP, and if that is counter to your gaming preference, you should remain in the PvE JPs.

skupuz.6940:

Oozo.7856:

Heijincks.9267:

The formula for confusion is this:
PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

At level 80, and assuming the mesmer went all out condition and has 1000 condition damage, each stack does 280 damage.

Not bad. You are only off by about 1000 condition damage in your calculations. Put in 2000 condition damage and run your numbers again.

PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

sPvP: 65 + (0.075 * Condition Damage) per stack

Assumes the Mesmer went full condition in sPvP and WvW (2000 condition vs 1300 condition)

WvW:
Stacks
1 =430
3=1290
6 =2580
9 =3870
12=5190

sPvP: 1
Stacks
1=162
3= 487
6=975
9=1462
12=1970

Due to food, gear, crystal, etc stats tend to a lot higher in WvW than sPvP.

5190/1970 = 263% more damage than what Anet considers balance in 5vs5 and 8v8…

It’s almost like Anet didn’t balance WvW for 5v5 or 8v8…

Smitten.3076:

It’s fairly simply, confusion is out of hand. No one wants it useless, just more balanced. There needs to be a trade-off if a cleanse isn’t readily available. in your build or on cooldown. You can take an action , but it’s going to cost you … currently the cost is disproportionate. 5k damage being on the extreme side, but more generally 3k for any action besides inaction. ( when cleanses are on cooldown or not available ) To all of you zergies claiming : Just stop for awhile, have you ever actually been in a skilled WvW fight? Stopping isn’t the counter to confusion, it’s an added effect from confusion which can be more damaging than the -damage- portion of the condition.

It’s easy , either Anet nerfs it or Confusion bombers become as prevalent as D/D Ele’s, imagine that for awhile … the only viable small man teams consisting of : D/D Ele’s, Thieves, Confusion Bombers and the token tank. How wonderfully diverse the playing field is. ( obvious generalization is obvious )

P.S : Confusion bomb builds are cheese.

Explain to me how damage that YOU CONTROL WHEN AND IF you take at all is out of hand.

Explain to me how a cheese build being strong isn’t a l2p issue.

Explain to me how you die so often to Confusion that it has to be nerfed, but other people out there have less than one out of every 20 deaths caused by confusion.

Explain to me how some people can be so affected by this “out of hand” mechanic while others barely even notice it’s impact.

Bad players die from confusion.
Good players know how to deal with confusion builds.

If you don’t want to adapt and become a good player, then you must accept that you simply don’t get to nerf everything you cannot deal with.

Oozo.7856:

EnRohbi.2187:

Oozo.7856:

Saturn.6591:

Edit: I play WvW and I also sometimes jump into PvP. I don’t remember that I ever died while having confusion on me.

So, you’ve never been hit with a stack of confusion at low health where even trying to heal yourself kills you? You don’t PvP much I take it. :P

You are at 2K health, just don’t do anything for 5 seconds!

If you’re at 2k health and get hit by just about anything you would die.
How is this an argument against confusion?

If your argument for nerfing it is that “It kills people at low health” then that, right there, is pretty compelling evidence that the kitten isn’t overpowered.

It’s not an argument against confusion. WTF has happened to our education system where people can not accurately interpret what has been stated in clear terms.

He said “never.” I took issue with the use of that word. End of story.

Generally,
When multiple people don’t understand what you’re trying to get across, the issue is with how you’ve presented your sentence, not with how others read it.

Oozo.7856:

Saturn.6591:

Edit: I play WvW and I also sometimes jump into PvP. I don’t remember that I ever died while having confusion on me.

So, you’ve never been hit with a stack of confusion at low health where even trying to heal yourself kills you? You don’t PvP much I take it. :P

You are at 2K health, just don’t do anything for 5 seconds!

If you’re at 2k health and get hit by just about anything you would die.
How is this an argument against confusion?

If your argument for nerfing it is that “It kills people at low health” then that, right there, is pretty compelling evidence that the kitten isn’t overpowered.

Dynnen.6405:

Its pretty obvious that you aren’t putting all your traits/stats/utilities into applying conditions. Confusion hits way harder than that on most of these condition speced mesmers. Or maybe you are talking about 1 stack of confusion, and not the 3+ that I usually have on me throughout combat. I can’t tell if you’re trolling or not…pretty sure u are.

Duel is still on DB? Thought you guys were tsym groupies

I should hope it’s obvious, I said like two posts ago in this very thread that I am not a condition mesmer

As others have pointed out though, when Mesmers do build for condition, confusion is about the only real damage source they have, and they have only limited ways to apply a meaningful amount of it too.

Anything less than 10 stacks of confusion will not kill you unless you make big mistakes or are low on HP when they’re applied. I can tell you both from experience playing with condition builds and experience fighting Confusion mesmers. 3-5 stacks of confusion is a nuissance, at best.

And yeah, Duel is still on DB.
TSym left in like September and we were pretty determined to not follow them.
I don’t know how much I’d use the word “Groupie”, TSym is a good wvw guild and was also a good wvw guild before they left for SoS, but I don’t think any of us would have transfered servers just to go with Coron.

covenn.7165:

EnRohbi.2187:

If confusion hits for 1k, you would have to spam like 20 skills in under 5 seconds to die from it.

On the bright side of things …if they only used one ability while confused every 3 seconds, it would still do more damage than a burn.

Truth spoken here.
But burns are far easier to apply and, for a class like a Guardian, can pretty much keep an opponent Burning 100% of an entire fight, regardless of how long that fight is.

If I could keep 100% uptime on Confusion I would have no problem with a damage reduction. But the uptime on any noticeable amount of confusion is probably more like… 2% of the fight, if it’s a quick one.

Smitten.3076:

EnRohbi.2187:

Smitten.3076:

It’s like everything else that’s out of whack with this, and every game with pvp ( ever ) ; there are the logical few who understand when somethings to strong. ( Even on their own class ) I’m not sure why anyone feels a condition which limits actions taken , should hit for 3-5k compared to every other condition out there. It’s already a dual purpose condition in that if forces a cleanse or inaction otherwise : Damage ( and lots of it when built). Compared to every other condition out there? Seems pretty cut and dry to me, and heck I have access to the cheese confusion spec.

So what?
You want to nerf confusion damage and make it so the condition means nothing?

If it doesn’t do so much damage that you have to take action to remove it, it would be completely pointless to apply it. The point of the condition is to do enough damage that the person has to react. Not so that you have confusion on you but just keep mashing your skill buttons and don’t die.

It’s a punishment condition, not a dot condition.

The reason a condition that limits action taken should do 3-5,000 damage is because the damage is HOW it limits action taken. If you lower that, you remove the purpose of using confusion. Which I can tell you, is nearly worthless in sPvP except, like in wvw, when used against bad players. And even then, they have to REALLY not be paying attention before it actually does anything to them.

I’m going to use you as an example, sorry in advance, it’s not personal.

WHY do you people who immediately jump on the “don’t nerf me bro” bandwagon always instantly assume calls for nerf imply we want the -whatever- made useless? Why is this a staple of every bloody argument in response? No one ever stated they wanted it useless, we stated it needs to be nerfed. There is a world of difference between the two implications, confusion needs to be brought in line with current WvW balance. It’s to strong of a force multiplier, it’s to strong of a condition. You can attempt to justify it all you like, but you’re wrong and you know it.

Confusion :
-Force Cleanse
or
-Force Inactivity
otherwise
-Damage ( Sometimes in excess of 3-5k)

Compare that to every other condition in the game; confusion wins in damage and utility. The issue with Confusion is it absolutely requires the player affected to deal with it first, before escaping, healing, dodging, attacking, or retreating he -must- deal with confusion first. When confusion was hitting for 1k damage this was still the case, you still had to handle confusion … but there was a middle ground, you could pay the tax and perform another action. It was still costly, it just wasn’t crushing as it is now.

I’m still of the mind that confusion damage was inadvertently buffed and will be nerfed with an “oops we didn’t mean to do that, you guys are silly if you think that was balanced” message.

If confusion hits for 1k, you would have to spam like 20 skills in under 5 seconds to die from it.

That is a useless condition.
Why would anyone waste their Condition Removal dealing with something that will probably not even do 10% damage to their health before it expires?

The people calling for confusion nerfs don’t seem to realize that it is a VERY SHORT condition effect. There are zero classes with zero builds that are able to maintain 10+ stacks of confusion for an entire fight.

And let’s be honest,
If you are dying to anything less than 10 stacks of confusion, you are doing something very wrong and you are, unfortunately, the type of player that confusion is meant to kill.

You can attempt to justify that confusion shouldn’t kill you all you want, but you’re wrong and you know it.

Dynnen.6405:

EnRohbi.2187:

Smitten.3076:

It’s like everything else that’s out of whack with this, and every game with pvp ( ever ) ; there are the logical few who understand when somethings to strong. ( Even on their own class ) I’m not sure why anyone feels a condition which limits actions taken , should hit for 3-5k compared to every other condition out there. It’s already a dual purpose condition in that if forces a cleanse or inaction otherwise : Damage ( and lots of it when built). Compared to every other condition out there? Seems pretty cut and dry to me, and heck I have access to the cheese confusion spec.

So what?
You want to nerf confusion damage and make it so the condition means nothing?

If it doesn’t do so much damage that you have to take action to remove it, it would be completely pointless to apply it. The point of the condition is to do enough damage that the person has to react. Not so that you have confusion on you but just keep mashing your skill buttons and don’t die.

It’s a punishment condition, not a dot condition.

The reason a condition that limits action taken should do 3-5,000 damage is because the damage is HOW it limits action taken. If you lower that, you remove the purpose of using confusion. Which I can tell you, is nearly worthless in sPvP except, like in wvw, when used against bad players. And even then, they have to REALLY not be paying attention before it actually does anything to them.

Christ…would you even be able to play if your F1/F2 spam was balanced? You’re telling me that you only throw confusion out and stare at them? Or dont do anything else while this player you’re fighting is basically CCed for the duration? And worthless in Spvp? Seems like a really effective way to defend a point…ohh wait it is. Gtfo

You seem to confuse me for a confusion built mesmer. But that’s okay, I know rude people like to make assumptions and fling baseless insults.

I run mostly in GC gear and get very little damage from confusion, I use it mostly to supplement what damage I do elsewhere.
A nerf to it would have minimal impact on my build, so I assure you none of this is personal for me (Seems to be for you though).

Smitten.3076:

It’s like everything else that’s out of whack with this, and every game with pvp ( ever ) ; there are the logical few who understand when somethings to strong. ( Even on their own class ) I’m not sure why anyone feels a condition which limits actions taken , should hit for 3-5k compared to every other condition out there. It’s already a dual purpose condition in that if forces a cleanse or inaction otherwise : Damage ( and lots of it when built). Compared to every other condition out there? Seems pretty cut and dry to me, and heck I have access to the cheese confusion spec.

So what?
You want to nerf confusion damage and make it so the condition means nothing?

If it doesn’t do so much damage that you have to take action to remove it, it would be completely pointless to apply it. The point of the condition is to do enough damage that the person has to react. Not so that you have confusion on you but just keep mashing your skill buttons and don’t die.

It’s a punishment condition, not a dot condition.

The reason a condition that limits action taken should do 3-5,000 damage is because the damage is HOW it limits action taken. If you lower that, you remove the purpose of using confusion. Which I can tell you, is nearly worthless in sPvP except, like in wvw, when used against bad players. And even then, they have to REALLY not be paying attention before it actually does anything to them.

Oozo.7856:

Dhampyr.2104:

To the OP (and supporters of a confusion nerf) – I would have no problem with this if ANet would give us another burn or reliable condition that YOU can’t control. Confusion is totally dependent on how bad the person you’re facing is. I’d much rather have predictable damage, tbh. I never, ever, have an issue with confusion.

Although… it is funny watching the bads melt. xD

Total BS. It’s not like you always have a condition removal available and the conditions can be reapplied faster than your condition removals come back up so you will often be in situations where you have heavy confusion stacks on you with no removal.

Don’t even pretend like that is not true. And, doing nothing is not always a viable option if the fight is not a 1v1. The one guys says… “just don’t attack” without recognizing that anything you do causes damage. One guy putting confusion on you while another is attacking you completely shuts you down when your condition removal is gone since you can not take offensive or defensive moves. And insisting that everyone run around with condition removal heavy builds just to counter this is stupid.

Go ahead and call me “bad” as part of your argument all you want, I’ll just call you people protecting the crutch that you are leaning on in return.

If you don’t want to run condition removal, you don’t get to remove conditions.
I don’t… get what you aren’t understanding…

You don’t get to nerf conditions just so you can go on playing like they don’t exist.

Unless you want Power/Vit/Toughness gear, you’re gonna have to get your equipment in PvE.

That could be anything from running dungeons, to karma vendors, to crafting, to purchasing gear from the trading post, depending on the stats you want.
And depending which route you take would influence how long you’d spend acquiring it.

Figure out the stats you want on your gear first, and go from there.

This is all, of course, after you reach level 80.

Evalana.5480:

I don’t find anything wrong with what Grimaldi proposed. If we don’t double up from time to time, it’s just going to be a blowout every single week. I’m all for closing the gap a bit. Just being honest.

Gonna agree with you here. I’m against a lot of underhanded play, but I don’t consider this to be that.
Yeah, WvW is primarily a PVP game,
But there’s also a social game aspect to it that I think goes largely underutilized.

Alliances exist in wartimes.
Truces, ceasefires, temporary peacetime, whatever you wanna call it.

These are very valid war tactics.

Oozo.7856:

Again, the complaint isn’t for zergs it’s for less than 5v5s. Why do you think Anet nerfed confusion damage in sPvP?

I think Anet nerfed Confusion for sPvP because sPvP is balanced around 5v5 matches.
WvW is balanced around zergs.

You said yourself the complaint isn’t for zergs.

Learn to pay attention to your conditions and start running with condition removal.

Don’t complain about conditions you’re just too lazy to deal with.

Yeah, confusion is great, but if you mitigate the impact of it you’ve made the Mesmer (Who is completely built around confusion) useless until their CDs pop. Cry of Frustration is the greatest source of confusion stacking and it’s got a 30s CD and only 3s stacks of Confusion.

It is understandably lower though.
Dolyaks are really simple to kill once you decide to kill them.
And quite frequently when you arrive at a supply camp to capture there are two dolyaks just sitting there.

I agree it sucks the reward is low when you’re out killing dolyaks like you’re doing.
But if it were any higher it would be unbalanced.

Liquid.9672:

EnRohbi.2187:

Rested Fox.2560:

but we’ll never see that because we’ll never get out of t2.

Blackgate was in tier 1 for THREE WEEKS since New Years.
What are you talking about?

You came in third every time and lost your place.

The point people are making is that with the current rating formula, one could argue that you have to win by too much, or lose by too much, to move up, or down to another tier. Thus my argument that the formula could use a tweak to increase volatility, which I think would address this issue without creating many, if any, blow out matches.

I don’t necessarily think a change in the math to make tiers more volatiles would be a bad thing. But it should be a change that’s subtle enough to only be applicable when a server is in freefall or spiking due to transfers.

The point I’ve been trying to make is that, because of the number of servers, and the huge difference between different server’s wvw effectiveness, there are really only a very limited number of combinations of matches that would be fair for everyone, if there are any at all.

Unless servers balance out a lot more between each other, and there becomes less of a plummet of skill between tiers, then having balanced matches is always going to come at the cost of stagnant matches.

Hopefully with home servers being a little more permanent with paid transfers introduced, the lower tier servers will begin building up a better wvw population that they can rely on staying, and the tiers will become closer. If such a day comes, I will whole-heartedly support a drastic overhaul to the ratings match to create more volatile matches. But until then, with the state of each server as it is now, I like that the system keeps my server in a tier with equal servers for as long as possible.

Evalana.5480:

Some Dragonites and I crying to the great Commander Siegerazer.

… oh yeah, and a score update too.

Well, at least we don’t tell the enemy when and where we’re about to strike with a breakout event :P

Rested Fox.2560:

but we’ll never see that because we’ll never get out of t2.

Blackgate was in tier 1 for THREE WEEKS since New Years.
What are you talking about?

You came in third every time and lost your place.

Gator.7581:

KiefyReefer.8304:

omg I cant type im laughing so hard from these last 3 posts. Its over man, take everything and we still win by over 200k. You guys are to funny.

Edit: Straegen got there a sec before me, Im talking about the 3 posts above his.

And this is the kind of unnecessary chest thumping that is starting to give your server a bad name. You can’t just let those guys have a moment eh? And by we, you mean your night crew right? Or did you stay up with them and beat the doors and walls of empty keeps?

It’s also the kind of unnecessary chest thumping that happens when you take all the people on a game who demand nothing but victory and put them on the same server. Look at the appeal Kaineng had. “Transfer here and win in wvw forever”, was pretty much their marketing campaign. The audience that that marketing campaign is going to attract is the obnoxious, boasting kitten.

I say be glad Kaineng took those people off your server, and hope they stay in tier 2 away from us.

Rested Fox.2560:

even if ratings dont get reset the math needs to change.

my server blackgate NA for example. we are in t2. we have significant ratings over everyone else who is in t2. the other factions in t2 are decent quality…. but we beat them week in and week out.

shouldnt we move up in ranking? according to the system which apparently works now, the answer is NO

no matter what happens in t1 ( as long as it isnt a blowout) all t1 factions will remain at higher rating…. look at the scores now, the losing faction is GAINING RATING.

the average rating in t1 is somewhere around 2160

blackgate LOSES rating for a SIGNIFICANT win in tier 2.

throughout the history of matchups the only way matchups significantly changed was due to direct player involvement. players “bandwagoning” off a server that was losing was the only way the server would drop rating. now that free transfers are over NA bracket will be very stagnant after about 2 matchups. kaineng is the only wild card. they will most likely move up to t2 with us because of player transfers that happened before free transfers was over.

my prediction: in 3 months guild wars 2 will have had many tiers with the same matchups lasting for months and months.

WE WANTED ratings reset and a new math system for the change…. but we would have liked 1 day matchups for 1 week to shuffle the rankings faster.

this is an inappropriate response to player complaints. we need changes to glicko, just not too major of a change, and a reset probably would have been acceptable with 1 day matches.

scrapping the entire idea because of short term negative effects is not a good long term strategy. in 3 months when factions havent moved up or down a tier in 1-2 months youll hear of complaints of stagnation …. people will get bored, too bored to complain in forums and instead theyll simply slowly stop playing.

TL DR
should have kept the changes but made 1 day matchups for a week to help the ratings to settle faster.

If you think that any system of ratings is going to prevent stagnant matches, you’re wrong.

The fact is there’s only so many servers, and there are even less that should be matched against you.

We don’t want blowouts, nobody does.
The compromise is that, if you want balanced matches, it’s going to be against the same servers every week. I would settle in and get used to your opponents over the next few weeks, because when your server finds its home in tiers, it’s gonna be hanging around.

Pinko.2076:

Titan.3472:

I started on YB then i learned wvw in CD now I am on Kaineng. I love all these servers. But about wvw Kaineng just gathered the most potential by far. Happy I joined them in their T6 fight.

Potential for what?

I wonder this too.

Let’s say Kaineng is right.
Let’s say they’re the greatest wvw server to ever touch this game.

What next?
Go to the top of tier 1 and steamroll every week for the rest of the gw2 lifetime?
kitten challenges, just join Kaineng.
Is that the potential they want?

saiyr.3071:

ShadowSoljer.6524:

EnRohbi.2187:

neomccoy.2657:

It’s been more than 24 hours that we lead in ppt. So what is the next excuse?

Don’t need any excuse.
You guys are kitten as winners, worst I’ve ever seen from a server that has beaten us, get as far away from our tier as you can. I wish you the best of luck.

I bet you could quote all those posts where we are bragging in one post. I’ll let you figure out how many quotes are allowed in one post.
*Hint- its not very many.

I bet half of them are from you

I’ve visited other tier’s threads in previous weeks where Kaineng was involved, to see what the attitude was like, and they struck me as the same self-righteous arrogant winners there as they do here.

neomccoy.2657:

It’s been more than 24 hours that we lead in ppt. So what is the next excuse?

Don’t need any excuse.
You guys are kitten as winners, worst I’ve ever seen from a server that has beaten us, get as far away from our tier as you can. I wish you the best of luck.

Seregdae.9085:

Wow…I sure hope http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA is wrong. Look forward to another 4 weeks of steamrolling or being steamrolled people. Either way its boring for everyone involved.

Anet said they’re changing the math behind wvw rankings, but that could mean any number of things.
I hope it’s something significant, because as it is right now DB’s going down to tier 7 (Which is lower than we’ve ever been, I believe) just because Anet decided to reset rankings the week Kaineng got to our tier.

About the most disheartening thing Anet has ever done is to make the last three months that DB has spent clawing our way back from a guild exodus to be completely void and moot.

rmBossa.4621:

“At the end of this matchup, all ratings will be reseted (set to 1,500). ANet has not yet announced the math so the site will use the old formula and the ‘next matchup table’ may be innacurate.”

Thats from the top of the Millenium site.

Learn to read ppls. For all we know not much is going to change.

I think many of have read this (I read it before this thread, at least).
But as that exact quote of yours said, Anet has not announced the new math.

They may have only tweaked a couple small things.

Additionally, they could have changed it so servers are MORE volatile in the long term to prevent stagnant matches, and if they’ve gone that direction the next few weeks are going to be even worse than what mos predicts.

I got my 100% map completion without ever switching servers (I did it while my server was suffering a guild exodus too).

Just have some patience and don’t look at it with the mentality of grinding every POI in WvW in one sitting.

Ammendment: Since you’re asking about rotations, the highest ranking server in a tier is green, second is blue, lowest is red. So you don’t rotate colours every week, or in any specific order, but they do change.

I’m really annoyed with this ratings reset.

It’ll take longer for servers to stabilize with new rankings than it would have taken to just let the misplaced servers settle with the old ratings.

If there is not a very significant change in the math behind the ratings (I read that the math is changing, but not details on how that will be), then next week is going to be a disaster for just about every tier, and weeks afterwards.

Why they would ever reset ratings without going back to 24 hour matches for a week or two is a complete kittening mystery. They had 24 hour matches to avoid these kind of matches at game launch, but Anet seems to lack the common sense to do it now.

nalenb.1425:

Pinko.2076:

nalenb.1425:

Tried to have fun with these guys tonight when they invaded our Bay keep. They didn’t want to play. Anyone know this guild?

Look at the post above yours. They’re a good guild on Maguuma. If you want to play, they’re receptive to setting up fights sometimes.

Yeah, I’m just not very good fighting on the rocks, I’d rather fight in the open field where I have space to move.

Can’t ride the lightning out of battle enough on the rocks, right, D/D ele? :P

Harrish.8743:

(although glamour builds aren’t very good for this and I haven’t had much experience with shatter or phantasm builds which probably work better). Mesmers in general lack speed as well, which could also be a problem with a roaming build.

Shatter builds especially work very well for roaming, and are wicked DPS in a group situation too (Perhaps not the best for groups, but constant AOE confusion bombing and burst damage from mind wrack can absolutely decimate whole groups of players if you get even 10-15 seconds to unload on them before they realize why they’re all dying).
Thieves are no problem to a good shatter mesmer,
DD eles are a bit of a nuissance if they’re played really well, they’re the only class I ever get a little nervous about encountering alone.

Get as much info as you can,
send all to exploits@arena.net

KinkyWarrior.1879:

ower.9143:

EnRohbi.2187:

ower.9143:

want to get rid of zergs , go SPVP. You aren’t going to take towers and keeps with 5-10 people. You want small scale combat, again go SPVP.

Huh,
All those towers I took with 5 man groups must have been a hallucination…

yeah cool, you took a tower during off peak with no defense. proud of you. I am sure your server sings your l33t praises.

Maybe he did it primetime but you were so busy with your Zerg you never noticed? It happens.

But on the other hand you have a point. Large forces are infact needed and will lead to some of the best fights. Although I would go with more incentives for small-mid group play rather than decentives for playing in a zerg. (As someone above suggested)

That was actually also me that suggested it.

Small group play has plenty of use right now,
You just need to be much more coordinated and experienced in wvw so you know where to go and what to do. So people hop into wvw and find themselves completely lost in anything but a zerg.

The zerg is useful, it shouldn’t go away, there should just be more incentive to do things in smaller groups.
There is absolutely no reason why wvw should have to be so limited in your choices, they can make a purpose for both large and small groups.

ower.9143:

want to get rid of zergs , go SPVP. You aren’t going to take towers and keeps with 5-10 people. You want small scale combat, again go SPVP.

Huh,
All those towers I took with 5 man groups must have been a hallucination…

Honestly,
While I prefer small group play as well,

But I think the zerg has a lot of purpose, and I think the better way to deal with the situation is to give more incentive to do things is small groups, as opposed to giving less incentive to do things in zergs.

JoshuaLim.5197:

Shout out to the db pistol theif at the ruins in maguuma borderlands. You’re awesome :O I was the guardian that came to help the elementalist

Don’t take this as a complaint, I usually find thieves pretty fun to fight.

But I have never seen anyone give a complimentary shout out to a thief.
+1

nalenb.1425:

EnRohbi.2187:

Reseting the ratings feels like a really stupid decision when compounded with week long matches. If they went back to 24 hour matches for the first week or something it would be fantastic. But volatility is going to be so high after the ratings are reset that I kinda see wvw being more unbalanced than it already is for the coming 2-3 weeks; minimum.

Yep. I see next week being a pretty even fight, but us coming in 3rd. Then we’ll fall to the bottom of the ratings and spend another 4 weeks PvD to get back up to where we should be.

The problem with predicting how next week is going to be is that both us (Dragonbrand) and Kaineng were reaching +695 during Asian primetime. So it’s hard to tell which one actually has the stronger Asians (I think we all expect it’s Kaineng, though I’d be really happy to be proven wrong).

While our NA primetime is stronger now than it’s been since early September, it is still not a time of day that DB tends to dominate.

With the increased volatility in ratings next week, it won’t surprise me if we end up dropping several ranks if Kaineng wins by a large margin. I don’t really look forward to ricocheting between like tiers 5 and 3 for the next month because we go back and forth from being steamrolled and steamrolling ourselves.

Again,
I’d like to be proven wrong,
But I suspect the servers in tier 3 with Kaineng next week are gonna get a pretty kittenty end of the WvW stick. It’s a bad week for ratings to reset.

Oozo.7856:

ParaldaWind.4523:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

RockonHarder.7235:

StealthSnake.9134:

Welp with the announcement of the reset and maguuma not having a strong night time, we’re currently outmanned in our bl. This kinda sucks.

after next weeks match up change it’ll be interesting to see how Dragonbrands and Kainengs Asian hordes handle each other. either way maguma will be waking up to a fully occupated BL i think.

you guys have a pretty strong early morning crew so they will get put to the test for clean-up.

There is no guarantee that we will face either Kaineng or Maguuma next week. The entire ladder is being reset.

Next week’s match ups still are calculated as usual, I believe.

As I understand it, they are just resetting server history/past performance from the scoring process. The projected matchups for next week will remain the same.

Indeed.
The tiers next week will remain the same, they’ll just be reseting the server’s ratings and starting gathering numbers again.

I’m not excited about this.
To me, what this means, is that if Kaineng comes into tier 3 next week and steamrolls anywhere near as well as it has been, DB is going to plummet in tiers the following week.

Reseting the ratings feels like a really stupid decision when compounded with week long matches. If they went back to 24 hour matches for the first week or something it would be fantastic. But volatility is going to be so high after the ratings are reset that I kinda see wvw being more unbalanced than it already is for the coming 2-3 weeks; minimum.