Guild Wars 2

Duckwark.7830:

Ephemiel.5694:

You didn’t read anything at all, did you. Anet never wanted to “have the Guardian’s sense of justice being perverted into blind vengeance” AT ALL, i have no idea where did you even get that.

They simply used their idea of a “big game hunter” and tried to make it fit the Guardian. That’s the problem of this whole thing.

Let me direct you towards:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Liked-the-ready-up-name-still-doesn-t-fit/5048195

To summarize, he states “the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions.”

I believe it is you who needs to do more reading.

That is not “blind vengeance”, but whatever.

Also, maybe it’s just me, but the Warrior is usually the one who would think brute force and extermination are the right path. So the Dragonhunter faction is simply Guardians who think they’re Warriors now?

GummiBear.2756:

Vayne.8563:

I think people have a right to be angry about this. The whole participating in a beta thing has no detail. People don’t all know to expect limited times. Many people would have expected more.

No they don’t, they dont even have a right for a chance, being part of the beta is a PRIVILEGE not a right

It’s not a privilege when EVERYONE can get in if they get lucky for a drop.

Not only did they make it a drop, but they didn’t tell any details till now and those details are rather disappointing.

Actually, they did say that we’d log into the game and see Lion’s Arch instantly changed.

Duckwark.7830:

This once useful thread has devolved into two trolls screaming at each other.

Anyway, I understand where Anet was coming from, having the Guardian’s sense of justice being perverted into blind vengeance, but “Dragonhunter” seems so uninspired, not to mention futile. This specialization is supposed to be equipped to hunt down the Elder Dragons? With a bow and a couple traps?! I don’t see that as very likely, unless Bear-traps are Jormag’s secret weakness. Now, if the DH got a large bonus towards fighting Dragons and their minions (or an Asuran mega-laser LOL), that would change this entire discussion; they would be able to do something the other classes MECHANICALLY are unable to. But as of now, they’re just a tanky ranger.

People have referenced the Engineer’s Hobosacks debacle. While Anet eventually caved on that issue, I really don’t think that they will for DH. The ONLY dev response we have received on this issue is an adamant and mildly insulting defense of the theme.

That being said, I can still hope. A name change would go a long way to mend what I (and others) see as what could be a flaw in the lore.

PS: Oh, and top 3 name changes would be to Paragon, Warden, and Vanquisher.

You didn’t read anything at all, did you. Anet never wanted to “have the Guardian’s sense of justice being perverted into blind vengeance” AT ALL, i have no idea where did you even get that.

They simply used their idea of a “big game hunter” and tried to make it fit the Guardian. That’s the problem of this whole thing.

Obtena.7952:

Arrk.4102:

Obtena.7952:

Arrk.4102:

Obtena.7952:

Ephemiel.5694:

Obtena.7952:

Ephemiel.5694:

Obtena.7952:

Arrk.4102:

Where did you see knights slaying dragons in GW?

That’s a very obtuse statement. Where do I see knights? Guardian is obviously closely related to a knight archetype. my Guardian killed a dragon in the storyline.

My Thief did, my Mesmer did, my Warrior did and my Necromancer did.

Is there any real info you can give to prove me or anyone else who realizes Dragonhunter is a ridiculous name for a Guardian spec?

Other than hundreds or thousands of years of established legends/myths that fantasy MMO’s commonly pull their content from, I guess not ><.

MMOs BASE their content of that, they do not follow it to the letter.

Please, just give up, you have 0 arguments against this.

I didn’t say they follow it to the letter. In fact, I already mentioned it doesn’t. Anet is just making a variation on a legendary theme that’s actually very common and well-associated.

Which theme? The Dragon fighting knight, the big game hunter or the witch hunter?

I don’t get your point here. Feel free to tell me again why Guardians have absolutely nothing to do with dragons again even though it’s a very commonly associated theme in fantasy settings?

Never asked for their association to generic fantasy setting. I asked for their association in GW.

Unfortunately, I don’t think Anet is considering your individual needs when developing the game. Anet is obviously borrowing heavily from a generic fantasy setting. If that doesn’t appeal to you, you’re wasting your time.

:) I keep forgetting that Anet is borrowing from the great story of the bow and trap-using Knight that fought dragons.

Good job at that. and good job at trying to sound tougher.

Arrk, give it up. It’s impossible to convince someone so blind to reason.

Obtena.7952:

Ephemiel.5694:

Obtena.7952:

Ephemiel.5694:

Obtena.7952:

Arrk.4102:

Where did you see knights slaying dragons in GW?

That’s a very obtuse statement. Where do I see knights? Guardian is obviously closely related to a knight archetype. my Guardian killed a dragon in the storyline.

My Thief did, my Mesmer did, my Warrior did and my Necromancer did.

Is there any real info you can give to prove me or anyone else who realizes Dragonhunter is a ridiculous name for a Guardian spec?

Other than hundreds or thousands of years of established legends/myths that fantasy MMO’s commonly pull their content from, I guess not ><.

MMOs BASE their content of that, they do not follow it to the letter.

Please, just give up, you have 0 arguments against this.

I didn’t say they follow it to the letter. In fact, I already mentioned it doesn’t. Anet is just making a variation on a legendary theme that’s actually very common and well-associated.

hmm, very common and well-associated huh? Can you please tell me where 1. only Knights fight/hunt dragons, 2. Where do they use traps and bows and 3. where are they associated with “big game hunters”.

Like i said, you have no arguments anymore and modifying one just to continue is pointless.

Obtena.7952:

Ephemiel.5694:

Obtena.7952:

Arrk.4102:

Where did you see knights slaying dragons in GW?

That’s a very obtuse statement. Where do I see knights? Guardian is obviously closely related to a knight archetype. my Guardian killed a dragon in the storyline.

My Thief did, my Mesmer did, my Warrior did and my Necromancer did.

Is there any real info you can give to prove me or anyone else who realizes Dragonhunter is a ridiculous name for a Guardian spec?

Other than hundreds or thousands of years of established legends/myths that fantasy MMO’s commonly pull their content from, I guess not ><.

MMOs BASE their content of that, they do not follow it to the letter.

Please, just give up, you have 0 arguments against this.

Obtena.7952:

Arrk.4102:

Obtena.7952:

It could, but it doesn’t. You might think the explanation is weak but it’s plausible. To say there is no connection between knightly types and dragons just shows people lack exposure to historical legends/myths, etc… things commonly touched upon by any fantasy setting.

Knightly archetypes going against dragons are all well and good. But is the Warrior not a knight as well?

I would say it’s not as knightly as a Guardian is.

Not as knightly, but still, a Knight. Kinda funny how your own argument is working against you now.

Obtena.7952:

Arrk.4102:

Where did you see knights slaying dragons in GW?

That’s a very obtuse statement. Where do I see knights? Guardian is obviously closely related to a knight archetype. my Guardian killed a dragon in the storyline.

My Thief did, my Mesmer did, my Warrior did and my Necromancer did.

Is there any real info you can give to prove me or anyone else who realizes Dragonhunter is a ridiculous name for a Guardian spec?

Obtena.7952:

It could, but it doesn’t. You might think the explanation is weak but it’s plausible. To say there is no connection between knightly types and dragons just shows people lack exposure to historical legends/myths, etc… things commonly touched upon by any fantasy setting.

Any fantasy setting means nothing. Understand this for once. It doesn’t matter what other works do, this is Guild Wars 2. I don’t care that knights in other mythologies fight dragons, you know what else does? Mages, but that’s besides the point.

There is NOTHING in the GW universe that can link Guardians to dragons, unless that specific Guardian happened to be Sylvari since they’re minions to Mordremoth.

Naming it Dragonhunter makes no sense, that’s simply the truth.

Obtena.7952:

Ephemiel.5694:

Like i said earlier a few times, i’m a Sylvari Thief, what makes Guardians more Dragonhunters than me? NOTHING!!!

The background story Anet creates does.

Their background can say that a legendary warrior fought Mordremoth with a frying pan and won. It still wouldn’t make sense and people would hate it.

The explanations they gave for the Dragonhunter were weak, anyone who instead blind would see this.

Obtena.7952:

Ephemiel.5694:

37 pages and people, somehow, still side on Anet’s side with this.

It’s easy to do. Despite the name-haters desire to convince people otherwise, ironically with ‘thematically inconsistencies’ and ‘lore’, there is very old, well established tradition of associating knightly character types as the nemesis to dragons. It’s not Anet’s fail for acknowledging this and borrowing on the idea. It’s a real thing, there is lots of cultural and historical references to it. Hell, there’s a kids show about it. Even my son associates knights as dragon hunters; he’s 6. It’s not a far fetched idea. If individuals can’t acknowledge this link, they are being disingenuous and have little reason to be listened to.

So….what!? The problem isn’t that they associate Guardians with dragons, why the hell do you guys refuse to see that? The problem is that they associate Guardians with big game hunters, the “game” in this case being dragons, and specifically gave them the name of ‘Dragonhunter" which is BULL. That’s why Dragonhunters in this case makes 0 sense.

Like i said earlier a few times, i’m a Sylvari Thief, what makes Guardians more Dragonhunters than me? NOTHING!!! I don’t even care that they use bows or traps, i hate they’re named “dragonhunters” when they have nothing to do with it, much less with the dumb big game hunter crap.

Would Paladins that decide to go into the offense be called Death Knights? Would Knights that use magic be called Mages? Would Rangers that use a Greatsword, like they do in this very darn game, be called Warriors? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO [repeat O for about 5 seconds more].

There’s nothing that makes a Dragonhunter more of a Dragonhunter than Thieves, Mesmers, Warriors, Elementalists, etc.

37 pages and people, somehow, still side on Anet’s side with this.

Screw it, let’s name the Thief spec Dragonstealer, the Engineer: Dragonbuilder and the Ele: Dragon Tempest.

zenleto.6179:

Ephemiel.5694:

zenleto.6179:

Genesis.8572:

They are never connected to the dragons

Well, they are now. It could even be the genesis something bigger!

We’re all connected to the Dragons, especially Sylvari. Aren’t the ones not affected by Mordremoth, for whatever reason, dragonhunters? Like i said, i’m a Sylvari Thief that has fought dragons, aren’t i a Dragonhunter myself?

No, you’re a Thief that fights dragons. The Guardian I create in the beta will still be a Guardian that has a specialisation in Dragonhunter.

That makes so little sense, especially after everything that was talked about here, that i actually facepalmed. It’s obvious you understood NOTHING.

Asudementio.8526:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Torch, mainhand sword, and rifle make the most sense for thieves atm.

Torch less so, but it could happen.

Thief specialization called Blackjack that uses mace as a immob, cripple combo weapon.

He also cheats at card games.

zenleto.6179:

Genesis.8572:

They are never connected to the dragons

Well, they are now. It could even be the genesis something bigger!

We’re all connected to the Dragons, especially Sylvari. Aren’t the ones not affected by Mordremoth, for whatever reason, dragonhunters? Like i said, i’m a Sylvari Thief that has fought dragons, aren’t i a Dragonhunter myself?

I find it even funnier how you ignored everything i said.

Obtena.7952:

Ephemiel.5694:

Obtena.7952:

I see opinions, I don’t see proof. Please do continue to ignore established, traditional lore that makes a plausible link that Guardians could be interpreted as a nemesis to dragons.

Yep, the traditional lore that gives Knights/Paladins/etc traps and bows to fight Dragons.

Please, do continue to be blind.

You’re right, traditional lore doesn’t dictate they have traps and bows to fight dragons. That’s not relevant to the point I’m making here. If there is any class with a link to dragons in this game based on lore, it’s Guardians.

So? Does that make them the only ones to become “Dragonhunters”? No. I’m a Sylvari Thief, am i not a Dragonhunter then? I fought Shatterer, Claw of Jormag, Tequalt, freaking ZHAITAN, you know, dragons?

Why would the Guardians, this game’s version of PALADINS, suddenly say “meh, screw honor, screw being the front line, the tank/defender, i’m gonna start using traps now and longbows”? That’s like having Paladins use darkness.

And calling themselves Dragonhunters….whyyyyyyyyyy? Like i said, i’m a Sylvari Thief, am i not a Dragonhunter? Aren’t Warriors or Mesmers Dragonhunters? Hell, as a Sylvari, my darn Wyld Hunt IS TO HUNT THE DRAGONS.

Just read a few of the comments before actually trying to write something.

Obtena.7952:

I see opinions, I don’t see proof. Please do continue to ignore established, traditional lore that makes a plausible link that Guardians could be interpreted as a nemesis to dragons.

Yep, the traditional lore that gives Knights/Paladins/etc traps and bows to fight Dragons.

Please, do continue to be blind.

Obtena.7952:

Ephemiel.5694:

They could call them anything, idc, as long as it fits what the Guardian stands for. Dragonhunter doesn’t fit AT ALL.

You know what’s funny. Do a Google search for the nemesis of a dragon. See what comes up … very interesting. Then come back and say Guardian have nothing to do with Dragons. I love it when people think they know more than they really do.

You know what’s funny? This entire thread showing proof that Dragonhunter doesn’t fit the Guardian.

I love it when people think they know more than they really do.

They could call them anything, idc, as long as it fits what the Guardian stands for. Dragonhunter doesn’t fit AT ALL.

Fermi.2409:

Ephemiel.5694:

L Step.8659:

Leveling shouldn’t even exist in games. It’s just a way to timegate/make you grind for actual fun things/keep you around longer. If GW2 didn’t have levels would the game be any different at all? I don’t think so, there’d be a lot more alts I’d think though.

So you want a game that just gives you everything instantly?

That’s not what he said at all and you know it.

….that is exactly what he said and he pretty much accepted it in the comment below you. Go be a dumb white knight somewhere else.

L Step.8659:

Leveling shouldn’t even exist in games. It’s just a way to timegate/make you grind for actual fun things/keep you around longer. If GW2 didn’t have levels would the game be any different at all? I don’t think so, there’d be a lot more alts I’d think though.

So you want a game that just gives you everything instantly?

Arrk.4102:

Ephemiel.5694:

Arrk.4102:

Guys please do not make me defend the abomination that is the Dragonhunter, but I will if you keep bringing up the even worse Draconnier. I think problem is relating the class with Dragons than with Hunting.
Guardian -> Hunter makes sense, kinda, in the way that instead of using all that defensive zeal and focus to make it offensive.
Guardian -> Dragon makes no sense, because there is nothing related to dragons, at all.

Please don’t defend the abomination that is Dragonhunter by saying it makes sense for them to be Hunters because they use all of their defensive zeal and focus on the offensive.

At least Draconnier is so stupid, and so close to Engineer, that it’d make people laugh.

Draconnier is so stupid it makes Dragonhunter make sense.

Dragonhunter is so stupid that we ended up thinking of Draconnier, which is so stupid that it makes the stupid Dragonhunter make sense.

See how bad this is Anet?

Arrk.4102:

Guys please do not make me defend the abomination that is the Dragonhunter, but I will if you keep bringing up the even worse Draconnier. I think problem is relating the class with Dragons than with Hunting.
Guardian -> Hunter makes sense, kinda, in the way that instead of using all that defensive zeal and focus to make it offensive.
Guardian -> Dragon makes no sense, because there is nothing related to dragons, at all.

Please don’t defend the abomination that is Dragonhunter by saying it makes sense for them to be Hunters because they use all of their defensive zeal and focus on the offensive.

At least Draconnier is so stupid, and so close to Engineer, that it’d make people laugh.

Dante.1763:

Ephemiel.5694:

“Dyeing” weapons would really make no sense.

We could do it in GW1 just saying, granted the dyes didnt effect much usually, and really i dont see them changing it this late anyways.

Well i never played GW1 so idk. Just kinda stupid to dye weapons in my opinion. How would having people with red, blue, orange, etc weapons running around?

Wetpaw.3487:

Lemuria.3195:

Um… why? Just why?

Okay, so you unlock all waypoints on your level 20 Warrior. Congratulations. Then what? It’s utterly meaningless to go to areas with level 80 mobs only to die when they blink at you.

I’m utterly confused as to why anyone could consider this a good idea. It ultimately has very little utility beyond quick-travelling to cities, and that’s already possible thanks to the Asura gates. If you REALLY need that shortcut to the dungeons, try walking to them? Costs nothing, takes minutes and you’ll be going through areas which are probably more appropriate for your level.

The requests just keep getting stranger here.

Because many players don’t quest at all to level. I leveled my Ranger/Guard the oldschool way of map completion questing. I leveled my Necro and Warrior via crafting. I leveled my Thief/Mesmer via lvl20 scrolls/lvl1 tomes.

I prefer rewarding a player that finishes map completion like I mentioned in a previous post over handing out WP’s…but I know how the dreaded “M” word is frowned upon in these forums.

If you leveled without questing and didn’t bother at least getting important waypoints, that’s kinda your problem.

“Dyeing” weapons would really make no sense.

The reason it’s way too easy is pretty much cause people complained it was too hard.

The natural “evolution” for Thieves right now would be Assassins. Rifles are the only real choice.

Maybe offhand sword if their design is more Swashbuckler rather than Assassin.

Wetpaw.3487:

Ephemiel.5694:

Wetpaw.3487:

Ephemiel.5694:

You made a completely new character? Unlock everything again. It’s 100% fair, stop complaining.

or maybe it’s just feedback…not a big deal either way, my alts can continue to sit at jp chests for all I care.

and since you mention fair, how about we include WvW maps as part of of map completion again, or not allow gold to gem conversion, and remove level up tomes while we are at it? Your “fair” is subjective.

Is this about WvW maps or gold to gem? No. It’s about someone wanting to have all the waypoints cause he doesn’t want to get them again with his alts.

you brought up “fair”, and I responded in example how dumb/subjective your “fair” “stop complaining” point is.

You TRIED to do that by mentioning something completely irrelevant to the topic.

RabbitUp.8294:

Ephemiel.5694:

No, they originally said that they were based on big game hunters. They started saying the witch hunter thing afterwards when people realized it was stupid.

Yes, they are based on big game hunters. Like Reapers are based on Jason Voorhees and the Pyramid Head.

To be based on something doesn’t mean that something is a perfect parallel.

There’s just nothing about the Guardian that fits it. That’s like saying a Paladin would suddenly become an Archer/Hunter/Ranger/etc because there’s a huge threat. WHY?

For the same reason a Master Illusionist starts controlling the flow of time.

You mean the same Illusionist that already had control of time?
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Time_Warp

Now please, tell me what does the Guardian have to do with being a Dragonhunter out of nowhere.

Swagger.1459:

Ephemiel.5694:

Swagger.1459:

Ephemiel.5694:

You made a completely new character? Unlock everything again. It’s 100% fair, stop complaining.

there are other account bound things in the game that you use among your characters so maybe open up your mind a bit.

And that has what to do with Waypoints that you find? Absolutely nothing, but gj with mentioning it.

it has to do with a comment that is obviously over your head.

Nah, i just don’t read comments that are dumb or about laziness

You made a new character? Unlock the waypoints again, end of story.

Swagger.1459:

Ephemiel.5694:

You made a completely new character? Unlock everything again. It’s 100% fair, stop complaining.

there are other account bound things in the game that you use among your characters so maybe open up your mind a bit.

And that has what to do with Waypoints that you find? Absolutely nothing, but gj with mentioning it.

Wetpaw.3487:

Ephemiel.5694:

You made a completely new character? Unlock everything again. It’s 100% fair, stop complaining.

or maybe it’s just feedback…not a big deal either way, my alts can continue to sit at jp chests for all I care.

and since you mention fair, how about we include WvW maps as part of of map completion again, or not allow gold to gem conversion, and remove level up tomes while we are at it? Your “fair” is subjective.

Is this about WvW maps or gold to gem? No. It’s about someone wanting to have all the waypoints cause he doesn’t want to get them again with his alts.

RabbitUp.8294:

Leo G.4501:

But it does work. It just works differently. It’s not like the Reaper doesn’t get a scythe, on the contrary. It is the Necromancer spec that gets it by default no matter what weapon you decide to use.

If you can be this lenient about Reaper, be lenient about all specs. The truth remains that the same argument you are using could have been used to support a rifle/turret Reaper.

My problem has always been the aspect of the spec being tied to “big game hunting” which then leaves it open to incorporate other definitions of what hunters do which Guardian really doesn’t embody.

This whole “big game hunter” has gotten out of hand. The concept was that they are witch hunters morality-wise, hunting down the big bad thing of Tyria (dragons and their minions) and since dragons are big, their style and tools are similar to those of a big game hunter. It was the inspiration behind the spec, not the one phrase to define them.

Reapers were likened to Jason Voorhees, but I didn’t see anyone pointing out the differences and asking for a mask. Or question their motives and whether they match Jason’s. It’s the same thing, the inspiration behind it and no more, give it a rest.

No, they originally said that they were based on big game hunters. They started saying the witch hunter thing afterwards when people realized it was stupid.

There’s just nothing about the Guardian that fits it. That’s like saying a Paladin would suddenly become an Archer/Hunter/Ranger/etc because there’s a huge threat. WHY?

First time i fought either The Shatterer or Claw of Jormag, don’t recall which one i faced first.

This was the first time in my entire MMO life that i saw so many players getting together for something outside of raids. I played WoW before and i know there’s some world bosses in there, but it didn’t feel the same.

Here, it just felt like a truly epic fight, dozens upon dozens of players fighting a gigantic dragon was incredible. Only thing i don’t like is how there’s no real……challenge. You can fight these 2 right now and literally let your char auto attack, leave and you’ll likely still be alive when you come back to pick up your chest.

The whole Witch hunter thing was mentioned after and it was mentioned incredibly poorly. Anet said the Dragonhunter was based on big game hunters.

You made a completely new character? Unlock everything again. It’s 100% fair, stop complaining.

lordkrall.7241:

I think people are simply overhyping what Rubi actually said.

She said: “Next week we have something extra cool to reveal”.

People keep throwing around that she said that it would be something super-special and such. And yet those words were never uttered by Rubi, they were created by people hyping up what was actually said (just like more or less every single time).

And yes, the rebuilding of Lion’s Arch and the more or less complete overhaul of a major part of WvW is something extra cool.

Yet when asked if that was it, they don’t give us a straight answer.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

eduardo.1436:

On the topic side I do hope the chapel is purely cosmetic, it would be an interesting site to RP…….bbetter yet make it an instance area, we woudn’t dozens of people fighting for the place

That’s an excellent idea, eduardo mi amigo. An instanced spot where we can have private RP ceremonies, without map chat trolls interfering.

I highly doubt Anet will make instanced areas just for RP ceremonies.

I liked the part where the cinematic clearly shows spears, yet Anet came out and said “we told them not to add them….but they did…..but no spears”.

Also, i like Forgal too. Stop hating the Norn.

True i guess. How come we’re realizing these things, yet the guys getting PAYED to think of these names and info chose “big game hunter, let’s name him Dragonhunter, yay”?

It’s was likely a bug, but when you purify Orr with Trahearne, the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan can actually mention a different mentor.

“I see in your heart that you have lost someone to Zhaitan. Someone named…<Mentor>. She/He is waiting for you now, beneath the dragon’s wings…”

Wouldn’t their names appear in the Pact Memorial after we killed Zhaitan or in the memorial that will be made in LA?

You can’t use the name “Inquisitor” since that would imply every Inquisitor is that class. They’d need to use a name that isn’t in the game or that other characters already have.

Diovid.9506:

Ephemiel.5694:

People keep forgetting that some art for the Revenant has them holding a bow.

Show that art then. All I know of is the piece of art on the Heart of Thorns website which is mistaken for a bow but which is actually a sword.

Actually that was the art i meant and i just saw it closely and noticed it is a sword.

People keep forgetting that some art for the Revenant has them holding a bow.