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When something in the game (such as this event) changes negatively as this has, we need to step in and remediate the toxicity. The byproduct of this change happens to be that a champion farm is being slowed, but since that was the originating factor for the toxicity, it’s unavoidable.
The originating factor for the toxicity is lack of reward throughout the game. That’s why players gravitate so aggressively to things such as this. When a pack of half-starved people come across a scrap, civility is not amongst their strongest attributes. Do we hold accountable the scrap or the fact that they desperate?
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Especially when Blix isn’t being run on every layer. You have a choice NOT to taxi to a layer running Blix.
What I find most interesting is that despite the numerous “instances” of any map, if one wanted to complete this event for their personal record, they could do so by just switching to another instance of the map instead of complaining.
Please, pray tell, how exactly do I just “switch instances”? I have tried to look for taxis for non-Blix servers, but of course I will get ignored.
And for those of you saying how you guys are bringing the price of T5 and T6 down for the greater good of the economy, stop trying to delude yourselves into thinking how noble you guys are, and how the lesser non-farmers should thank you. Normal Cursed Shore events give T5 and T6 mats just fine.
Am I a farmer? Yes, of course I am, why else will I be in Cursed Shore? But I do not intentionally fail events that affect the whole map just to get those few sacred Guilded Coffers and ignoring everything else on the map.
The moment Blix is active in a map, all other events are put on hold. Arah, Grenth, Melandru, “Mehh, what are those events? I only want my Blix. Rinse, repeat.”
There are people out there who just want to do the normal event chains, like Jofast for example, which will never happen because of Blix.
I am glad that Anet has finally decided to do something about Blix.
You can still guest to other servers….not saying it’s going to get you a non blix server all the time, but it is still an option.
As for all other events being put on hold. This has nothing to do with blix really. There isn’t enough interest in those events because there are not enough non farmers interested in doing them. Why? They have already done them to death and they offer paltry rewards. If you want to do those events get enough people to do them plain and simple. Create a lfg.
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Is there a chance to get imbued version in future?
This is what I’d like to know. I don’t want to get this one if the imbued comes out later as a separate version.
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I was thinking about a thread in the general section that wants the equate rewards (namely the new spvp armor set), and thought the spvp 50k tournament reward would be a much better thing to have equated.
Imagine having your winning dungeon/fractal team winning 50k rl cash. Idk if any other game has anything other than rl pvp rewards offered, but I for one think it would be amazing.
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The game could always use more rewards, but tbh if we are going to strive for more equality between spvp>pve>wvw rewards I’d start off with the rl cash rewards that spvp only gets. Idk how that would work outside of dungeons though.
Imagine a 50k dungeon tourny!!!!!!!
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I’m of the opinion that this is the result of poor design. Players crave better rewards, hence we have things like this, so I cannot fault them for that. Harassing other players however is something else….on both ends. Players trying to make the event succeed just to spite those farming are just as bad as those with angst against those trying to succeed.
Much like the ember event I wonder where players clamoring for a nerf will be after one arrives. Will they still be there completing the event after all the farmers leave? I don’t see many trying to complete the ember event now. I actually see it completed less now than it was when the farm was viable, very catch-22ish.
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I call bs. Pretty sure everyone that has had any interaction with you on the forums knows the reason behind this thread. I am quite surprised it is still open considering the forum rules claim it isn’t allowed.
So you support threads that proclaim inaccurate statements like “The precursors market is overpriced”, and then go on to attack my thread that proves those statements otherwise? The reason why threads get closed is because people go off topic, much like what you’re doing, which is against the forum rules.
Back on topic. John manages the economy quite well. Supply of high end luxury items like Precursors are meant to be ultra rare. But remember one thing: Players themselves are the ones who dictate prices. If something seems to be overpriced, it’s because there are enough players willing to pay those prices. That’s how a market works. Once players aren’t willing to pay the prices, you’ll see prices naturally drop to levels that’s acceptable.
I may not agree with them, but I don’t really have issue with threads created out of a posters actual concern of the game. I do however find threads like this one created out of ill will of/to others with to be rather off putting. I’ve said my piece so I’ll leave it off here. edit: just saw your new thread…absolutely no issue with it
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(edited by Essence Snow.3194)
So should I make a new thread called the precursor I want is too expensive.
I fail to understand the point of this discussion.
The whole point to this is that there’s nothing wrong with current Precursor prices. All Precursors have the same drop rate as other Precursors. One you can buy for 90 Gold, the other you can buy for 1,500 Gold. All the complaints about Anet not “fixing” the market come from people who don’t understand the market.
I call bs. Pretty sure everyone that has had any interaction with you on the forums knows the reason behind this thread. I am quite surprised it is still open considering the forum rules claim it isn’t allowed.
I call bs. What exactly has Smooth Penguin done here that is against TOS? He is defending the precursor market with examples to back up what he said.
It was a thread made for the sole purpose of riling up others.
Do not submit “trolling” posts or threads. We define “trolling” as commenting in a manner intended to elicit overly strong negative and emotional responses for mere shock value, attempting to derail threads, persistently posting off-topic, or engaging in personal attacks on another forum member. Accounts made with the sole intent to “troll” will be terminated.
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So should I make a new thread called the precursor I want is too expensive.
I fail to understand the point of this discussion.
The whole point to this is that there’s nothing wrong with current Precursor prices. All Precursors have the same drop rate as other Precursors. One you can buy for 90 Gold, the other you can buy for 1,500 Gold. All the complaints about Anet not “fixing” the market come from people who don’t understand the market.
I call bs. Pretty sure everyone that has had any interaction with you on the forums knows the reason behind this thread. I am quite surprised it is still open considering the forum rules claim it isn’t allowed.
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The forge change that added lvl 75-79 weapons to the loot table did absolutely nothing to the precursor rate. Those lower level drops come at expense of pearls and generic level 80s, not precursors.
I sorta beg to differ. When forging precursors a lot of players throw outputs back into the forge to have more chances. Since those chances consist of more <80 level exos and we know that 80s have a higher chance than non 80s (based on what devs have told us), it effective reduces the rates (even if it is ever so slightly).
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Interesting reading.
May I ask you a question?
I’m going to be presumptuous and ask away.
Have you kept track of your forging? Amount thrown in etc…
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i am glad to see that there are more ppl who think tp flipping is not the way to play the game : )
It’s not the way to play the game but it is a way to play the game. It’s been said many times before, without flippers constantly sinking gold into the TP, amongst other forms of gold sinking, and removing it from the game, the regular influx of created money via loot drops, dungeons, event rewards etc would create a massive pool of gold in the economy. If everyone has access to near unlimited amounts of gold, it loses its value and the prices of everything goes up. This is a really simplistic view of things as economics isn’t my strong point.
Real world examples were pre WW2 when the German government kept printing deutschmarks but the large scale availability of money led to hyperinflation. A similar thing happened in Zimbabwe. It got so bad that USD$1 was worth 1 QUADRILLION Zimbabwean dollars. To go out to buy a pair of trousers cost 10billion Zimbabwean dollars. The Zimbabwe government ended up introducing a new currency the NEW Zimbabwean dollar which was the same as the old one just without all the zeros. Turkey did the same with the Lira by lopping off something like 7 zeros from their currency.
Without effective gold sinks in the game, you would see precursors, and everything linked to making a legendary, cost at least double if not triple what the going rate is now.
Without flipping the devs would have to be more creative in the reward structure of this game. Create more uses for items, less coin rewards, less vendor trash, etc etc……They control most all of the variables so it’s not really like the real world.
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I finally got The Legend after putting in over 3k gold from 3 dungeon focuses and a mystic stone go figure. I’m around 3.5k g atm with still nadda from tradable weapons.
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That’s what I said. If that happens something is more likely wrong than right.
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What? Can you please reiterate that?
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No one said 1 result was. It’s the repeating that makes the outlier.
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I don’t think they would have any reason to nerf the drop rate of these, much less do it without telling us. They are already going back up in sale price, with the spike in demand from the new Episode release.
Incremental drop rate changes are the kind of thing you might see in testing, not post-release for no apparent reason.
The demand for these is something I don’t really get either. I would have though as players got the 48 needed for the back item demand would taper off.
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The answer to all three questions: it doesn’t matter. A thousand players with 10g each have more effect on the game than one player with 10,000g.
Uhmm no……too vague to be an answer
It is much easier for one mind to decide to do something than it is for 1000.
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Prove that all accounts have the same odds. (does this seem familiar?)
I didn’t say that every account has the same odds. In fact, I specifically stated that some accounts have better odds because they are engaging in more attempts.
Unless stated otherwise, there is no reason to assume that any account has a different base chance per attempt. The Mystic Forging data that is available on these forums and on other websites all corroborates the chance rate. Testing mob and chest drop rates is practically impossible for players because we are missing too many variables to back into the equation, however there isn’t any evidence that there IS a difference either.
The thing with odds is that they settle down over time. The outliers cease to be outliers. It is this premise which house odds are based on. Vegas will always will in the long run b/c the odds settle out to their favor. When they don’t odds are something is wrong.
For example when something has a 1/100 chance yet happens 50 times in a row the odds of something being wrong become much much higher than the odds of it being business as usual.
This game has outliers. We all know them, played with them, either felt pity or angst for them. Thing is some of these outliers have been so since the launch of the game……ie they have remained outliers over time. This is evidence of something not working as intended. The odds of this happening do to things not working right are much greater than if they are working right.
Unfortunately we only have one type of evidence…observational, but it’s better than nothing.
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Is harvesting DR a thing?
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Ahh so then you know about the TP crew’s methods. If you were familiar with them then you’d know it’s what they have done time and time again. You’re joining late to a party and commenting on something that’s been well in the works for a while.
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Single players obtaining 300+ pre’s from forge or 5+ from drops fly in the face of everyone having the same chances. Statistical outliers if you’d rather.
Everyone has the same chance to create a precursor when they throw 4 items in the forge. They also have the same base chance (adjusted upwards via Magic Find) to create a precursor when they kill ANY mob in the game. They finally have the same chance to create a precursor when they open a boss or jumping puzzle chest.
The chance is the same for everyone. Some players CHOOSE to not maximize their number of attempts while others do choose to maximize their attempts.
Any time you have a fixed CHANCE, the only way to improve your odds is to increase your number of attempts.
Ergo, players who throw 400 weapons into the Mystic Forge will be more likely to get a precursor than the players who throw 4 weapons into the MF. Both players have the same chance on each forge, but one player is improving his odds by playing more.
Same with killing enemies, the guy who spends his time killing LOTS of enemies will have better odds of getting a precursor than the guy who sticks to the champ train, killing one enemy at a time.
Prove that all accounts have the same odds. (does this seem familiar?)
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I feel like Jon Stewart talking to Fox News here.
Jon Stewart is a propagandist. He uses humor to sway people to abandon reason and join in his fallacious political ideology. Not saying Fox News is any different (other than using fear instead of humor), but I find it somewhat fitting that you used him in your analogy…
The point is, all of the precursors that are on the TP came from somewhere, and EVERY SINGLE PLAYER has the exact same chance to be that somewhere.
To abandon reason? His show mostly focuses on common sense observations to point out the hilarity in “fallacious political ideologies” as you call them.
Single players obtaining 300+ pre’s from forge or 5+ from drops fly in the face of everyone having the same chances. Statistical outliers if you’d rather.
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(edited by Essence Snow.3194)
I have a feeling that the OP is not a TP enthusiast nor a “hardcore” player. Thus they would be in the lower/majority segment of the population that doesn’t have the same elevated earning potential. When prices of certain items are dictated by those with elevated gold, those w/o are s-o-l. It’s probably the reason there are so many threads about it…..ya think?
Everyone in the game has the same chance to get a precursor if they engage in the things that create precursors.
No one is s-o-l. They just believe they are because they are only looking at the acquisition method that is most visible (which, coincidentally, is the one with the most competition as a result of it being the most visible).
I feel like Jon Stewart talking to Fox News here.
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I have a feeling that the OP is not a TP enthusiast nor a “hardcore” player. Thus they would be in the lower/majority segment of the population that doesn’t have the same elevated earning potential. When prices of certain items are dictated by those with elevated gold, those w/o are s-o-l. It’s probably the reason there are so many threads about it…..ya think?
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I don’t think we’ll ever see it since they have all sorts of different weapons that use the same skins, but are only differentiated by name and color.
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Considering with all the chopping I’ve done ove the past couple of weeks and I’ve only gotten seven foxfire that whole time…. no…my luck still sucks, so I aint noticed.
^^ same here. you’re not alone.
How are ya’ll going about it? I know lots of players including myself that park toons at cypress clusters (4-7 trees) and harvest on every toon several times throughout the day. This (in my case) allows me to harvest 500+trees in a day with minimal time/effort.
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Going the Diablo III method and nuking the TP while simultaneously super-buffing drops? It seemed to work in that game.
One could only dream………..
Tbh I don’t care what they do as long as they make rewards better. This game needs it more than anything else.
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While I was going through my 11 toons parked in Malchor’s (for the 4th time) I noticed a distinct drop off in the amount of foxfires I was obtaining since the patch. I asked around and everyone I asked who had gone through multiple toons as well had noticed the same.
Has anyone else noticed this?
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The BoH from achievement chests mitigate the need to play wvw, so kinda a moot point.
That’s why I said in theory. Is that still happening BTW, the BoH drops. Kind of upset that I don’t get random PvP armor pieces anymore to full in my wardrobe.
They do not. At least, I didn’t get anything in any way PvP/WvW-related, at all. The Chests aren’t really appealing, anymore.
They still do. They just go directly into your wallet. Regular ones have 100, large have 200, and heavy have 300.
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The BoH from achievement chests mitigate the need to play wvw, so kinda a moot point.
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The ecto rate has not been modified.
History tells us that until you go and test this, you can be wrong on this statement. Did you run actual salvage tests to confirm this statement?
I would think looking at the code is enough.
JS would be the wrong person to ask/answer then. Kinda like asking a professional wrestler if there’s something wrong with the space shuttle launch program.
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If there were a gem shop item that would reseed my account, I’d buy it in a heartbeat.
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I see you’ve met Wanze and Ayrilana….lol…nice chaps, terribly constructive, and 2 of the TP sections most eager.
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I think that’s a rather large assumption to say that farmers are mainly relying on selling to buy offers.
Disagree. Farmers typically aren’t putting in the kind of research into velocity and volume that a flipper does as that represents time that they are NOT farming. Sure, there are people who mix their strategies or who work with the same market enough to know a safe place to list their goods where they know it will sell, but the majority of players don’t put that much time or thought into their TP activity and are therefore going to use the default setting which is to fill a buy order.
It is safe to do so, and if they were putting in the time and effort necessary to mitigate the risk involved with using sell orders, they would probably have transitioned over to flipping once they realized how much more profitable it is compared to farming.
That leaves one to assume that most farmers are filling orders rather than listing items.
Almost every farmable items has such velocity that simply listing an item 1c less than the lowest sell listing will result in a rather speedy sale. Not only that but most farmers are farming for a reason. Selling to buy orders is counterproductive to the reason they farming.
The only research one needs for listing such items is to price their listings according to market trends to maximize profits.<—this is what flippers do (at least decent ones)
I would gamble to say that most buy orders being filled are likely filled by those just amassing items via secondary intentions.
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Flippers place sell orders to move their goods that they bought with buy orders. Other Flippers place lower sell orders in order to be “first in line” to sell.
Farmers get items that can be listed to sell. Patient farmers place sell orders.
Ergo, Flippers compete with each other for the lowest sell order which means that they are decreasing the amount that Farmers get when they sell their things.
I’m not against flipping at all, but just pointing out that what flippers do is more to move prices closer to the 15% spread (or less). They are selling liquidity to impatient people who want to buy/sell now. “Pure” flipping won’t really shift the market to overall higher prices.
Yes, sell order amounts go down due to flipping (and due to non-flippers such as farmers who list sell orders), however unless a farmer focuses on a single market enough to know the liquidity, volume, and frequency, they are going to be more likely to fill buy orders for the sure thing.
You are correct, overall prices will not go up, but buy order prices will and that is the bread and butter of the farming economy.
I think that’s a rather large assumption to say that farmers are mainly relying on selling to buy offers.
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I mean, you’re a farmer, right? That means that you DIRECTLY BENEFIT from flippers EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.
Why would you want to cut your own hands off?
Please elaborate on this further.
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I’m right there with the OP. Even though I have had 5 legendaries none of them felt like an accomplishment or a reward. They felt like pure grind and consistently reminded me how unlucky my account has been. It took me over 3k gold in the forge b4 getting one pre, so for me it has really not been an option.
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It does seem anti-intuitive to think that buy low, sell high “lowers” prices, but I do see the point about equilibrium.
Buying out the low material to sell it for a higher price means that there is room again for new materials to enter the market at higher prices as well, via undercutting. This gives producers (material farmers, etc) actual value for what they enter into the market.
The raise in price also helps siphon gold out of the economy to keep it more stable. TP flippers have to suck up a huge fee just to buy, list, and earn on their investments. If it’s not at least a 30% increase, it’s probably not worth doing at all. Which means they have to invest in highly volatile materials.
…and my brain went from gold sinks to farming guiding gameplay and..Yeah, it’s a complex topic, one that the game’s economist has a pretty firm grasp of.
This only applies to impatient buyers/sellers. For those utilizing buy orders and sell offers it increases prices on buy orders and decreases prices on sell offers.
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Storm
TP-had no other choice…..well over 1k g..maybe over 2k g thrown in toilet
4.15k hoursI am convinced my account is marked as just about every member of my guild and fl (300+ ppl) have less than 1/2 my hours and have gotten much more and much better drops also better luck with forge than I have.
Update
Leaf of Kudzu~TP
Chaos Gun~TP
Howl~TP
Zap~TP
The Legend~Mystic Forge but only after over 3k gold being thrown in.
7,325 hours played and still convinced my account is marked.
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No thank you! Fractal weapons are one of the only (if not the only) skins that players actually need to play content to get. There should be more like them. Granted I have no issue with altering the rng nature of them, but keep the requirement of actually playing content to obtain them.
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I know you can’t comment on the gem store or I’d also ask why the Upgrade Extractor is so unattractively priced.
The upgrade extractor is intended for infusions, not sigils/runes.
If that were the case they’d be called infusion extractors, more specifically >+9 infusion extractors*. Remember back when they were introduced there were other upgrades that cost more than the extractors given the exchange. If we based their intention on fluctuating market prices, then we wouldn’t be able to say they were intended for one thing or another as over time the values could change resulting in contradictory intentions.
The upgrade extractors are intended for……wait for it……upgrades, which includes more by definition than just infusions. Value of those upgrades is a secondary issue.
*denotes subjectivity to changing prices
Semantics Forum is this way —->
If you don’t want me correcting your semantics….it’s really easy, don’t start with them in the first place. It’s not rocket science.
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I know you can’t comment on the gem store or I’d also ask why the Upgrade Extractor is so unattractively priced.
The upgrade extractor is intended for infusions, not sigils/runes.
If that were the case they’d be called infusion extractors, more specifically >+9 infusion extractors*. Remember back when they were introduced there were other upgrades that cost more than the extractors given the exchange. If we based their intention on fluctuating market prices, then we wouldn’t be able to say they were intended for one thing or another as over time the values could change resulting in contradictory intentions.
The upgrade extractors are intended for……wait for it……upgrades, which includes more by definition than just infusions. Value of those upgrades is a secondary issue.
*denotes subjectivity to changing prices
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Oh I see, when you do it it’s fine, but when I do what you normally do it’s objectionable.
The point was showing that an intended over-correction is not only possible but happens. Not saying that it happened in this case, but it does happen.
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lol Whatever makes you sleep at night buddy.
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It wasn’t over correction as the game’s economist said it was on purpose.
Yes it was an over correction, and yes the game economist said the over correction was on purpose. The extreme requirements for that one item has given value to quite a number of items, including karma.
I expect we’ll see more of this thinking even if we don’t like it much, and that’s why we’re seeing more and more account bound crafting lately. That sucks too.
The bolded statement of your post is illogical. I respectfully suggest double checking the definition of over-correction. It’s impossible for a result to be an over-correction if that result was intended.
That’s not true. Consider an over correction in a car that is starting to slide. Now it definitely can be an intended over correction to show the effects of such……ie Here’s what happens when one over corrects when starting to loose control.
And there you have it. A perfectly possible example of an intended over correction. You can take that check to the bank and cash it too.
No, for reasons I already mentioned in my post you quoted.
Edit: I don’t believe you understand the usage of words such as under and over when used as prefixes.
In any case, can we drop this and get back to the subject of the thread rather than a discussion on grammar?
To get this back on topic, if anything is done that reduces silk scrap prices by 50%, an increase of 14% or more in other scrap prices would put players worst off. Any change in silk would increase demand for all scraps so you can be pretty certain that prices would rise more than 14%.
You said it wasn’t possible. I showed that it was. Care to rethink?
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It wasn’t over correction as the game’s economist said it was on purpose.
Yes it was an over correction, and yes the game economist said the over correction was on purpose. The extreme requirements for that one item has given value to quite a number of items, including karma.
I expect we’ll see more of this thinking even if we don’t like it much, and that’s why we’re seeing more and more account bound crafting lately. That sucks too.
The bolded statement of your post is illogical. I respectfully suggest double checking the definition of over-correction. It’s impossible for a result to be an over-correction if that result was intended.
That’s not true. Consider an over correction in a car that is starting to slide. Now it definitely can be an intended over correction to show the effects of such……ie Here’s what happens when one over corrects when starting to loose control.
And there you have it. A perfectly possible example of an intended over correction. You can take that check to the bank and cash it too.
Then its not an over correction but an over reaction.
It’s called an over correction…over correcting. That’s what it’s called, named, referred to, and/or the terminology.
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It wasn’t over correction as the game’s economist said it was on purpose.
Yes it was an over correction, and yes the game economist said the over correction was on purpose. The extreme requirements for that one item has given value to quite a number of items, including karma.
I expect we’ll see more of this thinking even if we don’t like it much, and that’s why we’re seeing more and more account bound crafting lately. That sucks too.
The bolded statement of your post is illogical. I respectfully suggest double checking the definition of over-correction. It’s impossible for a result to be an over-correction if that result was intended.
That’s not true. Consider an over correction in a car that is starting to slide. Now it definitely can be an intended over correction to show the effects of such……ie Here’s what happens when one over corrects when starting to loose control.
And there you have it. A perfectly possible example of an intended over correction. You can take that check to the bank and cash it too.
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Idk you seem to have enough interest to discuss not discussing it. Why not let those that want to discuss it do so without raining on their parade at every turn?
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