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The game is all about gold because very little in the game at level 80 isnt about getting gold.
Means to an end vs. ends to a mean. Everything about the endgame for ME is not about gold because you need very little gold to do any of the endgame content. It’s all balanced around gear that is obtained EASILY by the time you reach 80. I believe this is the mindset players need to have to adopt and enjoy GW2. It’s not a ‘goldchasing’ game because you simply don’t need huge piles of gold to play and be successful.
You can’t make generalized statements based on your perception of game rewards/economy and claim it’s ‘wrong’, unbalanced or whatever. Well, I guess you can, but you don’t really have alot of people that make a difference taking you seriously when you do.
You just did the exact thing. Made a generalized statement based on your perception. Not saying your[statement is right or wrong just pointing out that lil tidbit.
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Considering all recipes currently ig are relatively based off rl recipes, I would go from there. At least that’s what I did several hours ago when I started buying those items by the truck load.
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It was a far more lenient solution than banning those that were exploiting the system. Which is what they should have done imo.
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The problem boils down to one of people. The business minded and smarter players will always have more money than the less so players. This will not change no matter what you do. People want to be equal in an unequal world, and it just won’t happen.
This. So much this. In every mmo the less capable want what the more capable have.(in rl too) I play all facets of the gw2 game including the tp But I dont like grinding dungeon or fractals. The same repetitive PvE content bores me. I dont go in for any BIG money, I play the TP for some side money because gold in your wallet is gold that can be doing something. But I am positive that I have earned more gold through “proper” play than TP flipping.
Is mystic forging a precursor for the seed money proper play? Is stockpiling elonian leather until the price rises and then selling it proper play? I have done almost every ascended daily crafting every day even though i dont need the mats but I know I can sell them when the price is high. Is this proper? Please tell me how i should play so i dont offend your sensibilities. PLease.
Your feeling matter to me…Really they do.
It would be fine is there wasn’t a definitive outlier and everything was relatively based on time/effort/skill. Unfortunately what we have here is a definitive outlier, where the fact that it is such matters more so than other determinants. Ofc there will not be absolute balance, but the goal should be to balance things as close as possible. Unfortunately what we have here is attempted balancing of pretty much everything except playing the tp, where it appears they just said “f it”.
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This isn’t about whether or not it is beneficial to the efficiency of the overall game’s economy.
This is about whether or not playing the trading post should be the most profitable means of playing an action-adventure mmorpg video game.
This is a side effect of having player to player trading. In most games, the market is limited to a single server, and in some games it’s limited to private transactions between two players (GW Spamadon).
Players who don’t know what something is worth, or who want to buy/sell it right now give more money than they need to players who have more patience or knowledge.
The only way to stop this is to remove the ability of players to send/trade/sell each other items. Then that Dusk your elementalist can’t use is worth 3.5 silver to a vendor instead of 900 gold to another player. That would be so much better!
They could also create some regulation on playing the tp, makes items more reliably acquirable via playing content, and/or alter item usefulness/desire. Basically they hold all the cards and have the means to do almost anything.
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I am seriously considering putting a hold on my key farming until the Dragon Coffers get taken out as one of the 4 items from BL Chests….. those things give HORRIFIC rewards.
WTH are fireworks SOULBOUND?
They are a bonus item. Without them you get 3 items not an alternate item. Idk who buys them but you can sell them for 10s on the tp, so consider it a take it or leave it10s bonus.
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I haven’t done a dungeon and I don’t flip. Once you have a dungeon path down pat that is, to my understanding, easily repeatable. Flipping is always changing. Dungeon v ai, Flipping v actual people. They both require skill albeit very different ones.
If it’s that easy why are not more people selling paths? Or why do people buy dungeonpaths in the frist place?
If TP flipping is so easy to make 1000g a day, why arent more people doing it?
Maybe, just maybe players bought an action/adventure mmorpg to…….idk….play action/adventure content? If this were a market simulator, then yeah “why aren’t more players doing it”.
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I don’t think it should be stopped. However regulated is a whole other matter. Imo the flaw with the tp and the economy is that is was given priority. In this manner it was easier to manage verses giving rewarding play priority and having the economy/tp balance around that. Ofc that would be harder to manage, but that’s why there are people hired to do such things (hopefully with the understanding that rewarding play IS paramount).
There could be more regulation on the tp, more options to gain rewards via play (not gold grind), and more item balance (looking at you runes and sigils).
Alas, we are where we are, in a game known for poor reward structure.
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The only exception was the southsun introduction at the start of the game where everyone was upleveled to 80 and the reward chest items where level 80.
Wrong. I was there on a lvl15 (or so) and the level of the exotics I got were in the 30’s. Even though I was upleveled to 80.
Wrong. There is no exotic below lvl 60.
Where are ya’ll getting your info?
Exotics are lvls 62-80 (search the tp and/or wiki)
Champ bags can give lvl 80 exotics to players that are low level. (I got colbalt on a lvl 24 in queensdale)
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Ahh so you don’t like the changes. Thanks Wanze for your input!
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Just wondering if the changes to the forge were done?
The mystic forge changes are a work in progress. What I will promise is that when it is done you will like it much better than you do now.
Since this post they changed the forge so we get more “variation”. This includes getting non-80 level exotics from 4 lvl 80 exotics.
Also wondering if the players like this change?
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And the TP tax is there to sink some of the gold that is flowing into the game. Otherwise players will accumulate gold faster which will lead to general inflation. I’ve seen what happens in MMOs where the gold taps are wide open and there isn’t enough sinks to stem the rising money supply. That’s why I included it in the player to player trade UI. If you don’t we will really start to see inflation and not what some are mistaking as inflation. The only other alternative is to reduce rewards further.
Addressing this: Anet controls both faucets and sinks for the most part. If they were to hypothetically remove the sink of the tp, ofc they would have to either create a new sink or alter some faucets. It’s not like there would be rampant inflation b/c they would balance it if it were the case. This does not mean they would have to reduce all rewards, just the gold faucets. They could very easily reduce gold rewards and increase item rewards (those that are not directly converted to gold), since they have control over everything.
In terms of reducing gold yet increasing items they could reduce the gold for wvw levels yet at the same time give players a rare per level in its place. The same could be said for spvp matches. Reduce the coin and add an item.
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@ Wanze Yes, and both should know lotteries are not practical methods of acquisition.
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Opportunity costs…sry I thought it was obvious
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Rare and expensive drops also benefit the average player because once they get one, they ARE rich.
That’s more of an exception. It’s like saying that the lottery benefits the average player b/c if they win they are rich. For example: those that do not get a good drop from the gauntlet would have benefited more by doing something else instead. Thus in trying for a “good” drop the good drop has essentially been more of a detriment to the player. Unfortunately this is more so the case than the other.
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I hope you realize you said in the same breath that “it isn’t based on gold” and “it achieves this marvel by utilizing gold”. ergo It’s based on gold…
That’s just as ridiculous as saying “houses are based on hammers”.
You are really grasping here…
What? You directly contradict yourself then say I’m grasping at straws? That’s funny!
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Or you get gear you want for said content via said content.
I prefer getting the gear I want from the content I want, which is the GW2 system. It isn’t based on gold, it is based on playing how you want and still getting rewards and it achieves this marvel by utilizing gold.
I hope you realize you said in the same breath that “it isn’t based on gold” and “it achieves this marvel by utilizing gold”. ergo It’s based on gold…
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Best: No Sub
Worst: Reward Structure
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GW2 seems to have trouble figuring that out, which I think comes back to the issue that this game is economy focused instead of content focused. Every encounter is designed around how it will affect the economy instead of centered around the reward like in other MMO’s.
I dont think the game is economy-focused. But every single decision regarding rewards, loot, item WILL have an impact on the game economy. The fact is, you really do have to take into consideration the game economy, because a lot is hinged on that. I’d wager a poor economy turns people off faster than poor content. (case in point: count how many threads there are that complain about how a.) the market is screwed b.) difficult it is to get a certain reward vs the lameness of the dungeon, living world, game mechanics, etc.)
But it doesn’t have to be. Rewards in Wildstar, WoW, Rift, etc don’t have any effect on the economy. Gold is used for fluff and if you have bad luck and that is it.
Sounds like GW2 … Gold is also primarily used for fluff. You don’t need gold once you outfit yourself for whatever aspect of the game you want to play. Ascended gear is not needed for anything but the MOST difficult encounters only because of a specific gating stat to boot, not the increase of stats you get from the gear itself. That’s where the difference you speak of is a wash. Other games evolve around ever increasing tiers of more powerful gear. GW2 does not.
People need to understand that FUNDAMENTAL difference between GW2 and everything else before they start QQing about rewards, gold, inflation, economy, etc… most don’t. Once you come to realize that almost ALL game content is balanced around the rare/exotic-level of gear, you come to realize how silly crying about the difficulty of obtaining Ascended gear actually is.
the gear in other games is really just a gating mechanism, or an incentive. It doesnt really matter as much as the fact that their is teired content, it basically allows them to simulate a beat this level and progress to the harder new area thing.
GW2 has gear teirs, but it isnt leading you anywhere. I dont object to that in principle, but the problem is it does lead you, just not into playing the game in the best way. The best way to play gw2 reward wise, is to do the simplest easiest thing that generates the most equivalent value in gold. In other games, the best way to play is to do whatever they decide is the best things to do.Or in other words .. those game force you to do content you maybe don’t like at all to get your stuff, while GW2 allows you to play whatever content you like and you still can get your stuff.
Or you get gear you want for said content via said content.
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Yes you are right my perception is the whole reason the game is known for poor rewards and gold grinding…..silly me.
edit* ^sarcasm btw…judging by past responses I figured I need to add this
I believe you have made your choice adamantly known……..lol
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(edited by Essence Snow.3194)
It’s problem b/c this game is known for having poor reward structure. JS doesn’t seem to understand why that is so (which is evident when he circles back to the macro economy in every discussion regarding rewards).
Anet acknowledges there is a reward issue. That is why they are “working” on it.
This game is accused of having a “poor reward structure” by players who don’t understand that it has the best reward structure.
In most MMOs, you have to grind Activity A to get Reward A. Doesn’t matter if you hate Activity A, you still have to grind it for hours upon hours to get Reward A. If you also want Reward B, then you have to grind hours upon hours of Activity B, which you can’t do at the same time as Activity A.
In GW2, you have ability to only play the content you like and buy the rewards you like. This means that I can do Activity B and get Reward A and Reward B and never have to touch Activity A.
The reward system in this game is superior to other MMOs because it lets you choose what content you want to do instead of shackling you to a grind you don’t enjoy.
Okay then why is GW2 known for poor rewards and the others are not?
A perception arises (at least for me) participating in certain content for a certain reward verses participating in any content for the same reward. Players are well known to try and become efficient as possible in their endeavors. This results in the former certain grind content for a certain reward being somewhat acceptable. The latter results in most content being inefficient grind since all content leads to the same objective. So most all content feels unrewarding since players know they could be more efficient doing something else with their time.
You have ignored his response explaining how playing the game is the primary reward, as well as your own previous statement that gold isn’t the only reward to be had playing. Your perception hasn’t accounted for the many ways other than gold that players are rewarded for doing different content as well as the fact that content rewards with multiple categories of reward types (gold, personal satisfaction, tokens, etc…) If your perception tells you there is only ONE activity you can do to maximize all the rewards you are personally interested, that’s a PERSONAL issue, not a globally relevant one applicable to all players in GW2. Generally, Anet does a good job balancing all these things for people over all game content. Count yourself in the unlucky minority.
I know it’s fun to invent things when opinion becomes fact but the bottom line is that you don’t know how much of the population of MMO players thinks GW2 has poor rewards. Furthermore, I don’t see the relevance … either you accept the game model or you don’t. If you can’t even bring yourself to think the rewards system is good and you don’t feel rewarded as a player, WTH are you doing playing GW2 and talking about inflation, etc… ? Sounds like you have higher level issues. If you don’t like the game, just go back to WoW or whatever.
Did you completely miss the “at least for me” bit or just didn’t read and replied haphazardly?
I feel like I have to hold your hand with every post.
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Okay then why is GW2 known for poor rewards and the others are not?
A perception arises (at least for me) participating in certain content for a certain reward verses participating in any content for the same reward. Players are well known to try and become efficient as possible in their endeavors. This results in the former certain grind content for a certain reward being somewhat acceptable. The latter results in most content being inefficient grind since all content leads to the same objective. So most all content feels unrewarding since players know they could be more efficient doing something else with their time.
That’s because our expectations and perceptions have been formed by decades of previous MMOs who had to design content that kept you paying them every month. They set the status quo and everyone is familiar with the status quo so today, instead of playing for fun, we are trained to play for rewards.
That’s not just mmos. That’s life.
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Gw1 didn’t share the same tier issue even though it was even more cosmetic based.
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It’s problem b/c this game is known for having poor reward structure. JS doesn’t seem to understand why that is so (which is evident when he circles back to the macro economy in every discussion regarding rewards).
Anet acknowledges there is a reward issue. That is why they are “working” on it.
This game is accused of having a “poor reward structure” by players who don’t understand that it has the best reward structure.
In most MMOs, you have to grind Activity A to get Reward A. Doesn’t matter if you hate Activity A, you still have to grind it for hours upon hours to get Reward A. If you also want Reward B, then you have to grind hours upon hours of Activity B, which you can’t do at the same time as Activity A.
In GW2, you have ability to only play the content you like and buy the rewards you like. This means that I can do Activity B and get Reward A and Reward B and never have to touch Activity A.
The reward system in this game is superior to other MMOs because it lets you choose what content you want to do instead of shackling you to a grind you don’t enjoy.
Okay then why is GW2 known for poor rewards and the others are not?
A perception arises (at least for me) participating in certain content for a certain reward verses participating in any content for the same reward. Players are well known to try and become efficient as possible in their endeavors. This results in the former certain grind content for a certain reward being somewhat acceptable. The latter results in most content being inefficient grind since all content leads to the same objective. So most all content feels unrewarding since players know they could be more efficient doing something else with their time.
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it was most likely the skin from spvp……….so sry to say but no chance
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It’s problem b/c this game is known for having poor reward structure. JS doesn’t seem to understand why that is so (which is evident when he circles back to the macro economy in every discussion regarding rewards).
Anet acknowledges there is a reward issue. That is why they are “working” on it.
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That’s a little obtuse. As a reminder to where this started, here is your response to one of my posts:
Gold is not a rewarding reward for a lot of players. It’s a secondary result of going for desired rewards. That’s where this game misses the mark. It believes gold is the best reward.
You’re talking about rewards and how gold ‘ranks’ as a reward. I’m just following the flow of the discussion and disagreeing with you because Anet has done many things to show they believe Gold isn’t the best reward in all game aspects; it’s simply another reward. If you want to bring in back to inflation because you have nothing more relevant to say about how player skills relate to rewards that aren’t only gold, go ahead. I’m sure it will be a significant contribution to the thread if you do.
Gold being the go to reward fuels inflation.
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I thought it was about inflation…ie gold. What did you think it was about?
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You mean the ones that point out where you counter yourself?
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Try what again?
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rng is not the exception it is the rule in this game
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If you want to argue if gold is the ‘primary reward’, I don’t see how that’s relevant but if you think it’s relevant to the statement I made, back it up with examples (not exceptions) to show me why you think Gold as a primary reward DOESN’T reward skilled players more than scrubs. I don’t see skilled players complaining that they get gold from their activities, whether they consider it a primary reward or not.
There is no opposition, you just didn’t read what I wrote … I provided an EXCEPTION where rewards don’t match difficulty as well as COUNTER-EXAMPLES to show Anet is working to make rewards match difficulty as the game evolves. Reading is fun. You don’t need to be more specific but you haven’t really made a counter to my point either.
So exceptions or no exceptions? or You can use them but we cannot?
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Gold is not a rewarding reward for a lot of players. It’s a secondary result of going for desired rewards.
Then GW2 is the game for those players because most game elements don’t make gold the primary reward. It’s certainly the case that the most accomplished PVP and WvW players don’t do it for gold. Even to a certain extent, a few PVE players don’t do spped runs in dungeons for gold either.
That’s where this game misses the mark. It believes gold is the best reward.
Unless you have some specific examples, the only exception I can think of where this is true are the short paths in dungeons … rewards here don’t match difficulty IMO. I don’t believe these limited cases justify your belief that Anet thinks gold is the best reward.
To provide a counter example, Anet just recently nerfed Champ trains … because they believe gold is the best reward? Think again. Same is true when they changed dungeon loot to limit rewards from repeating paths a long time back. Sorry, but there are lots of examples that actually prove your statement to be just wrong.
The most obvious example is that players cannot reasonably go directly after most rewards. They are locked behind rng, thus it is best to go for gold instead. It’s in the core design.
tl;dr RNG gating is the example
Again, you’ve excluded the other most obvious example being that those same rewards can be purchased on the TP.
How can you counter that gold is a primary reward by saying you can use gold to buy rewards?
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You don’t need to be more specific but you haven’t really made a counter to my point either.
More skilled players are always going to be rewarded better in this game, even if they aren’t playing according to some standard you set for them and that’s evident from the examples I provided. Being skilled actually means knowing the most efficient approach to successfully completing the content you do … i.e., being rewarded.
You mean lucky players?
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Gold is not a rewarding reward for a lot of players. It’s a secondary result of going for desired rewards.
Then GW2 is the game for those players because most game elements don’t make gold the primary reward. It’s certainly the case that the most accomplished PVP and WvW players don’t do it for gold. Even to a certain extent, a few PVE players don’t do spped runs in dungeons for gold either.
That’s where this game misses the mark. It believes gold is the best reward.
Unless you have some specific examples, the only exception I can think of where this is true are the short paths in dungeons … rewards here don’t match difficulty IMO. I don’t believe these limited cases justify your belief that Anet thinks gold is the best reward.
To provide a counter example, Anet just recently nerfed Champ trains … because they believe gold is the best reward? Think again. Same is true when they changed dungeon loot to limit rewards from repeating paths a long time back. Sorry, but there are lots of examples that actually prove your statement to be just wrong.
The most obvious example is that players cannot reasonably go directly after most rewards. They are locked behind rng, thus it is best to go for gold instead. It’s in the core design.
tl;dr RNG gating is the example
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Gold is not a rewarding reward for a lot of players. It’s a secondary result of going for desired rewards. That’s where this game misses the mark. It believes gold is the best reward.
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Regardless of what the others have said, it is possible. It has happened in the past w/o anet knowing (so they say), so there is a precedent for it occurring.
In this case who knows.
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I used to believe that they looked over a lot of the threads, maybe not replies but skimmed through. Until this past release where a MAJOR bug was posted well in advance describing exactly what the issue was and the thread was refreshed constantly.
Low and behold the patch hit and the bug was, as stated, game breaking. Only then was it addressed (took all of a few hours to fix). This exact thing also happen with slaying potions. Issues are well known and conveyed yet either fall on deaf ears or are ignored.
Examples like these make me question the use of these forums. Makes them feel much along the same lines of giving children movies to watch so as to keep them entertained and out of your hair.
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I am sorry to say this but “Short and sweet: If you think inflation is a major issue in Guild Wars 2, you should do more research on MMO economies and general economics.” is more like an insult rather than an actual attempt to explain his opinion on the matter (and this is not his first post in this manner). This sentence is on the level of the arguments of children. If this is the kind answer and manner one can expect from an ANet employee than why do forum posters are reminded every time by ANet that we should give constructive feedback and be respectful. There is even a posting guideline for us. I can adhere to the guideline but in exchange I expect the same treatment from ANet towards me. Without mutual respect there cannot be good communication between the company and its customers.
Some posters in these forums have lost their “mutual respect” privileges for being intentionally uninformed despite receiving direct answers that would have corrected their uninformed status.
When you see the same people saying the same wrong things all the time, you no longer respect them and your posts reflect that.
As long as the posters are not violating the coc or tos here, I would hope the company would hold their reps to a higher standard.
It is common practice in most all industry to expect better of it’s representatives, It is why we constantly see companies apologizing for employee acts/comments even though most of us think them in the right.
Edit* Again, great post Bombsaway +1
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(edited by Essence Snow.3194)
John:
Let me respectfully call you out on your answer as being well intentioned but IMHO misguided. Without getting into a credentialing match, I think both of us have had our share of economics, analytics and theoretical modeling. I am shall we say amazed by your answer.
I struggle with your answers as if somehow an MMO can be looked at as an economy when there are no actual limitations (you can simply change them on a moment’s notice by whatever delta of change your choose). Hence, the economy is less economic and more of a loyalty tool (a sophisticated CRM if you will).
Indeed, CRM/loyalty is the only purpose of that “economy”.
This is why I find your posts utterly frustrating, because they warp the economics of a real resource constrained system with a game that has no such restrictions. In doing so, you focus on somewhat senseless charts versus gamer expectation, perception and ultimately interest which is a far better measure of if the “economy” is working.
In short, this quest for “efficiency” is meaningless despite its “correlation” to economic theory IF it doesn’t accomplish the goal of loyalty/fun/name it what you will. The only thing the economic model can do (if well marketed) is create a “sense” of fairness.
The perception of inflation is more important than the reality in an MMO. The segmentation of that perception of inflation if it leads to a frustration or a “I can’t progress” attitude won’t change because your charts say it is wrong. The net result is the same.
If the goal is to create a sense or perception of fairness, but increasingly there is a trouble or “sense” that the “economy” is “off” even if only to one or more key customer segmentations, the mission is a failure despite pie charts and line graphs.
You keep trying to prove things are not as they seem to the customer. I wish you would quit telling posters to “learn economics”. Trust someone who clearly has, you are chasing the wrong issue. You are using an unfamiliar language to most of your consumers of the game to mask a very simple consumer issue:
To many it simply feels, right or wrong, that the economy is “boxing them out”. “Proof” is not going to replace the need to fix the perception. I dare say the customer and OP is far more “right” than you are. In an MMO, it matters not if you are economically disenfranchised, it only matters if you feel disenfranchised.
In short, I would be very hesitant to jump in and alter the conversation that the OP had. The value is the discussion over whether the “economy” “feels fair or different” rather than overwhelming the poor OP telling him to learn economics which may truly stifle the very conversation as a consumerologist I would suggest ANET would definitely want.
You mean well. I hope you realize I do too with this post.
Spot on.
Unfortunately JS’s reply shows precisely why this is so accurate.
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A reply in the dungeon section??? Did a snowball just roll through h-e-double hockey sticks unscathed?
Would it have to be streamed?
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Odd…..I was under the impression that any if not all of the achievements, spvp ranks, wvw ranks, dungeons, story lines, attaining lvl 80, maxed gear, cosmetic gear, titles, spvp tournys, mini games, world events, map completion, and basically anything in the game with a defined goal is something to accomplish.
It would be really odd to have this type of game without all those. Maybe it’s just me, but then again maybe not.
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Only limit I know of is self esteem. Do you buy a game to play it and accomplish things or buy your way through it to pretend you did the former?
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I have 3 legendaries and have given one away as a gift and found most of the process of making them horrible. T6 mats are are mind numbingly bad for a player like me that likes to go out and directly gather things. It took me 9 months for my 1st gifts of might and magic w/o buying from the tp. That almost made me quit the game. For the others I bought mats off the tp and it just felt cheap to me. I also bought all the precursors since in my 6,833 hrs I have not been fortunate to have rng luck (tbh I think there are marked accounts but that’s another topic).
The whole buying facet of legendaries feels cheap and unrewarding to me. That prevents it from being viable endgame content imo.
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We’ve had the exact same issue before. Lag is linked to EB. The other battlegrounds do not share the issue.
So looking at EB is a starting point.
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Since Smith’s track record is imo really good, I’m expecting (hoping?) that future changes will blow us out of the water.
His track record is that of a festival fortune teller gypsy. Very vague, thus applies to all. Those that choose to see it fit believe it so.
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I’m going to have to fully agree with Vol here (which doesn’t normally happen). Let’s hope future changes bring JS’s promise to fruition.
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Agree on all points. Specially 3. There is nothing worse than doing things 3 times as much as others and getting 1/2 as much.
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I thought spider queen always did AoE damage even when stacked? Its just usually there are so many condition cleanses going on, it’s hard to tell. CoF p1? Which part? We need specifics, just saying HoTW trolli s now AC troll, doesn’t really tell us much. Unless you are refering to the model that is being used.
you obviously dont even do dungeons then
I do dungeons all the time. and if IIRC I know I’ve seen the spider queens AoE while stacked. Please don’t make insulting assumptions. As far as HoTW troll is AC troll, are you saying that it functions in the same way? That the mechanics are the same? I am confused by what you mean by that statement.
I used to think like you regarding the AC spider, but then had to admit I was wrong when people showed me videos of players soloing the Queen in the middle of the room, in melee range, without getting one single circle on them.
The common element that was ruining that was mesmer clones, which a friend got a kick out of doing to PuGs stacking on the pillar (since the clone will move out of melee range, the spider will spit her poison around).As for HotW, I personally didn’t try it, but guildies told me that his mechanics are the same as AC troll.
Its not just the same mechanics..it’s the very same troll. It drops ac tokens and items. It was a copy/paste.
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