This last paragraph is precious xD
If you can’t play mesmer effectively its your fault.
So since there’s great mesmers that can play mesmer effectively, we’d obviously find them in high level pvp, right?
As to why its not found in most high end teams is simple; it requires too much teamwork, support, and has next to zero chance at surviving fights if trying to stay on point.
Oh, ok. So what you’re saying is that even if you’re fantastic at mesmer, you’ll still suck in high end PvP…but it’s your fault. Got it.
Dude.. I know its fun to look for reasons to rage but.. This is good news.
Combined with the defiance change, all we’ve seen are things looking up for Mesmer.
Chaos you show a little to much faith… I myself though, have my dreams, of a time where mesmer in a control orientated build has a life outside of PVP
Its not faith, its fact.
We’ve heard nothing but potential good news for Mesmer in the upcoming patch. Taking the quote “Mesmers specialization is gonna change PvP” and turning it into a QQ thread seems really out there to me.
So far we’ve heard of a potential for burst builds outside of PvP, a defiance change to bosses that looks pretty beneficial for us (and may possibly make Power Block not so terrible), and now word that our specialization is intended to be pretty impactful in PvP.
The only cause for worry is the already-established lack of faith in the devs, but not the good news we’ve been receiving.
Chaos, I love your optimism and I hate to do this to you, but here we go.
I’m going to quote one of your posts. It’s actually the OP of a thread called Power Lock & the “Pure Lockdown” Mesmer. It’s dated March 24th, 2014.
So, apparently, the devs do pay attention to our class forums. I’m like 90% positive that the lockdown buffs we’re seeing are a direct result of the lockdown mesmer initiative we’ve started here in the Mesmer subforum….
…I wanted to take a look at the exciting new Domination trait Power Lock and how it’ll affect the Lockdown Mesmer in the future. …
…Whatever the case, it’s likely April 15th will see a surge in new fresh-faced lockdown Mesmer.
Ok, now we’ll fastforward precisely 24 days. You created another post, this one was called [To Devs] Save Power Block!. It was made on April 17th, 2014.
Please don’t leave us with another useless trait…
We know how this one turned out.
This is why when Anet says ‘Mesmer changes are going to be awesome and shake up the PvP landscape!’, I say ‘I don’t believe you.’ Time and time again we’ve been excited only to have a fast one pulled on us and have cool stuff ruined. This is why literally anything Anet does will be viewed as a hostile action towards mesmers unless absolutely proven otherwise. Why so many of us are pessimistic about this expansion, and why we really doubt that mesmer is truly going to get anything good with it. At this point, based on what I know, I’m definitely seeing the expansion to be a one-and-done type of deal that I play through and quit again because mesmer got nothing.
Yeah, it should absolutely be AoE by default. Having one random shatter that’s not aoe is just odd, and it really needs that boost without burning 6 points and sacrificing an incredibly important grandmaster trait.
That’s workable, at least. My fear was that they’d go with someone more “PC,” who might act nicer, but has zero kitten ed clue about how the class operates.
Unfotunately, Ross is just pulling your leg. We have absolutely zero idea who our forum specialist will be.
their is a big problem with their communication with the players that they can not be bothered to fix.
There is zero communication, that’s the main issue. Due to the lack of any communication whatsoever, the fact that the devs don’t understand this class even a little bit becomes a massive problem, culminating in junk like disruptors sustainment…and shield.
Because if I’m not in a coordinated team, it won’t get used. Just me using it isn’t enough to be worth having a 90 second cooldown ability on my bar that will have to take the slot of another important utility.
Who said shield couldn’t be mainhand? We use GS as a ranged weapon, why cant shield be mainhand?
Well, there’s the teaser video showing mesmer using an offhand shield…
I agree with the OH only sentiment.
BUT, dont you think people are overreacting like drama queens about the shield?
Noone even knows what the skills are on it.
/smh.
I, and probably others, are reacting in a reasonable way based on past releases. Do you remember the last time anet released new traits for our class? Remember what happened? Skills aren’t that different from traits, and I’m anticipating something similar.
but I cannot help but feel as if the aoe makes it harder to be selective in your targeting. Consider, we are supposed to be magical duelists who use finesse and the magics of the mind and space and time to gain the upper hand.
That’s all well and good, but I sorta would like to have a role in WvW that isn’t summarized as ‘Veil in front!’.
Seriously, I thought this main-hand shield nonsense was exclusive to guardians…
I’d like a main-hand dagger more than pistol, but that’s probably just me.
Give me a mainhand trident hilt for all I care, I just want a mainhand.
Seriously this had never made any sense – the concept of a mesmer totally does not include a shield lol. Daggers are more appropriate I think… but a SHIELD??? haha I just don’t get it!
We shoot lasers through a great sword to make that work. Mesmers are all about have something that seems brutish and making it fabulous as kitten. The fact that it seems a good bit odd for a mage or scholar just makes me feel it fits mesmer more.
But, meh, I’m sure we’d prefer a MH pistol or something, but this isn’t too bad.
Honestly, I’m not even too picky about what mainhand we get. For all I care they could give us a shield that we chuck at people, but the fact that we’re only getting an offhand is insulting.
How certain are you all that every profession will only receive one new weapon?
It hasn’t been explicitly stated, but a lot of the language has been leaning towards how the spec will unlock a particular new toolset, given by that weapon.
Oh and fay, you mention balance, and mesmer, you should know by now that it is likely they have done no work whatsoever on mesmer yet, and we are simply an afterthought at this point.
Oh, I didn’t say the balance would be quality, just that the balance team has put a lot of manhours into it, doing undoubtedly productive things like figuring out how best to make sure the new content they add will be worthless for us.
Sorry man, as much as I’m totally behind the sentiment here…it’s not going to happen. I’m sure anet has been working on shield skills/balance for quite some time, which is why they actually released the mesmer using the shield in that teaser video. There’s not a chance that it’s going to change at this point in development. We’re just going to have to play with the hand of kitten that anet has decided to deal us time and time again.
Cool thanks, I was told by the game chat, to post in the forums, and to just ask. That a lot of the mes guides are kinda out dated, due to how
often the game changes.
The stickied guides are up to date as much as necessary. The game hasn’t changed in a significant way insofar as how mesmer plays in PvE for at least 1.5 years, so you’re good with those.
Also, about the list of things not good, it seems like every class forums says the same thing. So it was really hard to find a good vibe for a class.
This is, of course, true. That being said, mesmer has some more significant ones than a lot of other classes. If you keep looking around in these forums you’ll find some fairly substantial lists. That also being said, as I mentioned before most of these won’t pop up for you until you’re fairly experienced with the class, so it’s not something to worry about now.
Leveling a mesmer is quite honestly pretty rough. The problem is that mesmer is incredibly dependent upon traits, and the traits don’t unlock until very late in the leveling process (courtesy of some titanic mistakes by the anet dev team). This means that you’re basically going to be playing what amounts to half of a class for the majority of your leveling experience.
That being said, if you run with appropriate armor and weaponsets, you’ll generally be able to kill things just fine. It’s not going to be faceroll, but you shouldn’t have much difficulty for the most part.
Lucky for me, I will have a ranger lady, who lives in my house for some reason, and makes me waffles. She will be helping me out with the leveling. So I take it, at max level, I will be like Rawr? Not meow?
I doubt I will do much dungeons, I have the whole, going at my pace thing going on, and many people find me weird, or too fast/slow depending on if I see shinies or not.
I’ll be honest, there’s an enormous list of things that are not good with mesmer, that cause problems, that are broken, or at juts flat out awful.
That being said, mesmer is still a fun class to play, and you’re not really going to get incensed with those issues until you’ve got 1500+ hours of experience playing and learning the class. There’s an enormous amount of information available to you on these forms, and many extremely helpful people that you can PM in game if you need advice or support, and overall it’s a great class to start on if you’re not scared of a slightly rougher time leveling.
Edit: I saw that post, you’d best behave yourself Teladis, or no waffles for you.
Leveling a mesmer is quite honestly pretty rough. The problem is that mesmer is incredibly dependent upon traits, and the traits don’t unlock until very late in the leveling process (courtesy of some titanic mistakes by the anet dev team). This means that you’re basically going to be playing what amounts to half of a class for the majority of your leveling experience.
That being said, if you run with appropriate armor and weaponsets, you’ll generally be able to kill things just fine. It’s not going to be faceroll, but you shouldn’t have much difficulty for the most part.
Dungeons are more the situation where mesmer is a bit more iffy. Generally speaking, there are no decent mesmers in dungeons. They’re either really great or really awful. The difference is in knowing what utility to apply when and where. If you don’t know how to use your utility capabilities well, you’ll just end up dying a lot and generally being useless. If you do know how to do it well, you can really carry a lot of groups through a lot of content. There’s several fantastic stickied guides in these forums that contain the vast majority of the information you’ll need to know how to be a great team member in dungeons.
(edited by Fay.2357)
Mesmer can do plenty of damage. It’s very simple to avoid damage from something as straightforward as life blast.
It is, but its even simpler to avoid that 1s burst from the Mesmer and it wont be followed up by a 3-5K lifeblast every second.
That has always been the “issue” of the Mesmer. Its bursty but cant really maintain dps. If you dont dodge the burst its heavy damage but if you do its almost a free 50% off the Mesmers hp before he hit you again.
That’s a bit of an exaggeration. It’s not like going for that burst leaves you completely bereft of defensive options. It’s also worth noting that the long and obvious life blast animation is an absolute feast for interrupt/lockdown mesmers.
Plus I really frown at that healing power coefficient in mesmer. Almost no mesmer skills/traits utilize this stats well.
Due to this fact alone, celestial builds on mesmer are incredibly inefficient. Since I think the OP is talking about WvW though, this means you aren’t locked into that one big cele amulet like you are in PvP. You can actually mix and match various stat sets to achieve something a bit more tanky with some hybrid stats — like you’re wanting — but avoiding inefficient stats at the same time.
I’d try a mix of zerker, knights, cavaliers, and rabid/sinister. Play around with a build editor and see what sort of mix gets your stats where you want them.
Searching your post for “bug”, 0 results…
Bugs are probably one of the most ignored aspects of our class.
Sorry
. Had to pick and choose, didn’t want to fill up 3 posts
This was less a ‘lets go through and pick out everything’ and more of a ’I’m going to rant until it feels like I’m getting too long’.
Edit: Screw it, gonna edit it a rant paragraph about bugs.
(edited by Fay.2357)
Part 2
Edity bit:
BUGS! Mesmer is unbelievably buggy. We’ve suffered from more extensive and disruptive bugs than any other class in the game. This is in part due to the fact that the devs don’t play/understand the class, and so don’t notice when things go wrong, and partly -redacted to avoid infractions-. Some big ones include
- They recently broke clone offhands again. They started broken, got fixed after a year of complaining, aaaaaand it’s gone again
- Some of our skills still don’t do the proper damage, particularly after tweaks to change how the damage functions
- Some of our traits don’t interact properly with each other. It took years to get masterful reflection working with blurred inscriptions. It’ll probably take another year to get TD working with it.
- Afaik, several of the cd traits still have wonky interactions with our counter-attack spells. This results in decreasing effectiveness based on how you actually use them, which is pretty awful
- They introduced a fun bug that basically makes harmonious mantras pointless to run in open world PvE where persistent trait effects are stripped from your character if you change level
- There’s still an incredibly annoying bug where sometimes a long cd skill like portal will have its cooldown copied onto other utilities for no good reason.
- Something happened to mimic, doesn’t seem to work anymore
- Bounce logic on iMage is still very wonky, and is part of the reason it’s so awful
The final insult is that mesmers have lacked a good ranged mainhand power weapon since the beginning of the game. We’ve been nearly unanimously asking for mainhand pistol literally since the beginning of the game. When finally after years of asking, anet releases new weapons….we get shield. Another defensive offhand. Another defensive offhand to be tossed into the pile of other offhands that we already have floating around and have less than no need for. It’s basically anet thumbing their noses and taunting us with how close we could be to being a viable and interesting class, but never actually letting us obtain it.
Right, that got a bit longer than I anticipated. I’ve got plenty more gripes that I haven’t put down here, as many people on this forum could probably tell you. I’ve been known as the most cynical person with regards to anet balancing and content decisions for quite some time now. I hope this little list is sufficient to show you how absolutely not pleased I am with the current state of mesmer in this game.
(edited by Fay.2357)
it’s tough to believe you are not fine with class as is right now, because you do vocally calling people wrong and / or discredit other people’s complaints.
So, I’d love to see your list of what YOU are not happy about, because from the posts I’ve seen you made, you sure sound like you are perfectly fine with the current state of the Mesmer class.
Let’s see…
The scepter autoattack is absolutely awful. They slapped a half-hearted bandaid onto it and called it a job well done. It needs a total rework, many ideas have been given, they’ve ignored everything. It’s an absolute disgrace.
The iMage is the worst phantasm in the game. It’s been the worst for a very very long time. We’ve been asking for a rework to make it non-awful for ages and haven’t gotten anything. They recently buffed completely random numbers on it in the hope that we’d just shut up and stop complaining, but since they don’t actually understand our class at all, the numbers were the wrong numbers and it’s still awful.
The mainhand sword is still a shadow of what it used to be before being hit with countless nerfs. It used to be a fantastic utility and damage weapon. Then, blurred frenzy was hit with a double-nerf in one patch. A year or so later, iLeap was effectively deleted from the weapon. iLeap is still awful compared to its old utility, even with the teleporting implemented. You can’t use it to break stuns, can’t use it for mobility, you can just spam 3 twice and hope that the animation lock lets you swap before it gets killed by random aoe.
The new grandmaster traits that were released were, and are, an absolute farce. Disruptors sustainment and bountiful dissilusionment are both indescribably awful traits. The simple fact that multiple people at anet must have said ‘yes, this is a good idea. Let’s do it!’ is incredibly disheartening. The fact that they’re still wasting spots in our trait trees that could be taken up by something other than trash code is even worse.
Power block is arguably in an even sadder state than those other two traits. On release, power block was a strong and interesting trait that instantly created a really great style of mesmer play that hadn’t truly been seen since GW1. Unfortunately, the devs immediately decided that that was a mistake, and nerfed it into a state that’s just as functionally awful as disruptors sustainment or BD. The fact that it was almost a fantastic addition to our class before being snatched out from under us is just flat out insulting.
Overnerfing traits has been a theme for a long time with anet’s relationship to mesmer.
Blinding Befuddlement was turned from a really handy trait that added utility and damage in a lot of interesting ways into something that is once again, just useless scrap code in their database. They both nerfed it with a massive ICD and lowered the duration. It’s now not in a usable state.
The dissipation traits were slammed in a single nerf-ridden patch. Not only were they made blockable, dodgeable, and blindable in one patch, they also severely nerfed the strength of the bleeds that debilitating dissipation applies. These traits at least are still very viable, just the amount of nerfing that occurred in that one patch was patently absurd.
A long time ago, I made a build that functioned around a particular minor trait: vengeful images. This caused phantasms to have retaliation, allowing you to do some really interesting things by combining the damage transfer on the pDefender with high retaliation uptime. You can look it up if you want, it’s called the Immortal build. Unfortunately, anet decided to take what was an interesting trait and fun build and delete it from the game in a single patch. The trait was nerfed to providing 5 seconds of retaliation on summon, and it’s now once again just a useless scrap of code cluttering up their database.
Mesmers still have absolutely abysmal options for aoe anything. Compared to so many other classes, we have no aoe control, no aoe damage, and little aoe support. Literally the only handy things we have are portal and veil for large-group support. This makes obtaining loot, dealing damage, and generally being useful in other ways than as a veilbot in WvW an immense struggle that nobody has actually solved yet. This is a complaint that’s been getting aired since the beginning of the game, and in that time anet has made 1 or 2 half-hearted efforts to improve the situation.
The mesmer signets remain some of the worst designed signets in the game. There are incredibly few builds that actually utilize signets as signets; for both the active and passive effects. Additionally, the signet traits are scattered and disjointed, causing the creation of any build relying on signets to be haphazard and incredibly forced.
Specialists have not yet been chosen for the profession forums. They picked ones for a couple of the more general forums maybe a month or so ago, and said that they’d be working on getting things set for the others soonish.
I hope to see this kind of numbers:
for 3,410 using [spinal shivers]
for 2,648 using [life blast]
for 2,099 using [life blast]
for 3,858 using [life blast]
So I take it you just stood still, didn’t dodge, didn’t block, didn’t LoS, didn’t attempt to move out of the close-range high damage distance, and didn’t attempt to reflect the massively slow and obvious casting animation of life blast?
Yes, life blast can do heavy damage on an afk target, which seems to be what you presented to that necro. Even very basic avoidance attempts will mitigate the vast majority of life blast damage. At least the lich bane claw moves pretty quick, so it’s harder to dodge/avoid.
In other news…
You hit for 775 using mirror blade
you hit for 822 using mirror blade
you hit for 1751 using mirror blade
you hit for 1071 using flame blast
you hit for 2695 using mind stab
you hit for 1468 using lightning strike
you hit for 1445 using the prestige
you hit for 1306 using mind wrack
you hit for 1286 using mind wrack
This happened in under 1 second from stealth at 1200 range.
Mesmer can do plenty of damage. It’s very simple to avoid damage from something as straightforward as life blast.
TL;DR: There are lots of things you could pick to point at and complain about. None of these are them.
Working as intended.
Masterful Reflection
Distortion grants reflection.
Notes
This trait doesn’t affect the Distortion granted from Triumphant Distortion, but does grant Reflection when Blurred Inscriptions activates.
The reflection lasts as long as the distortion, including the extra second granted by Illusionary Persona.
This trait changes distortion’s visual and sound effects: A transparent crystal grows and envelops the mesmer, releasing a rainbow aura burst and wind-blown white light particles, then shrinks and disappears. A metallic twinkling noise plays, as well. Both the visual and audio effects will loop if necessary for the reflection’s duration.
Not being listed as a bug on the wiki is anything but confirmation of working as intended.
I seem to recall the devs stating in the preview at some point that it was supposed to work with masterful reflection. Of course, they also said explicitly that it wouldn’t have an ICD.
As stated above though, it doesn’t really matter. Whether it’s broken or working as intended (my money is on broken), the devs either don’t know, don’t care, or some combination of both.
i don’t know any mesmers who run bunker builds in *PvP
You can do bunker builds, but you have to actually do them, not something like this.
It has been known and recognized for quite some time now that a staff condition build is an extremely strong build for soloing in dungeons. Nobody is disputing this.
The problems come when you consider literally any other situation. If you’re in a party for dungeons, condition stacking will remove the vast majority of your dps. If you’re in open world PvE, mobs have so little health that a zerker build can delete them before you’ve even really started stacking conditions. Since it takes a while to actually ramp up your damage to the full potential, it means that any mob with less than the amount of health it takes to live that long is better killed with a zerker build.
Thanks for the free lesson. I will try and take those points and apply them, what then with the auto turn it off? Sadly the auto attack being clunky,slow, speed of the ball,the animation still needs addressing. Those features are great when they land that you speak of.
Yeah, keep the auto off at all times.
The autoattack on the scepter is absolutely, unconditionally awful. When I heard they were adding torment to it, I was dismayed, because it did absolutely nothing to fix the problems with it. It took an abysmally slow and awkward attack and made it an abysmally slow and awkward attack that also applies torment. Additionally, it means that fixing the scepter autoattack is now off of the dev’s to-do list, and they’ve gone home patting themselves on the back about how they fixed that one autoattack that everyone was complaining about. It’s really just a testament to how little the devs understand this class.
But I digress…
lol well that reply was surprising. Yeah, I’m done.
I’m glad you were able to come up with a cogent argument to back up your assertions, this was a productive series of forum posts.
The practice part is sort of like saying learn to play. Sadly learning to play works for both sides. That confusion beam screams dodge me. The block also needs to land, then you need to stay still no dodge roll to apply the block, the block is countered by enemy dodge rolling. The only thing left is the slow speed of the aa. Needs some speed love.
So, lets take a couple parts of this post and put them together to create an effective strategy.
The confusion beam screams ‘dodge me’. It also does low damage in a condition build (yes, including the confusion) since confusion got nerfed into the ground and most players are intelligent enough not to proc it a ton anyway. So you use the confusion beam to bait out a dodge or two. After they dodge, now you catch an attack and hit them with the torment from the block.
Alternatively, you can proc the block on aoe fields, that way they can’t predict it coming. This is particularly effective on eles and guardians.
Alternatively, you can proc the block on skills that are in the middle of an animation, forcing them to make a hard choice: cancel the animation or eat the torment. If you block a thief trying to backstab you, they either have to dodge and lose the opportunity to try for a 2nd backstab or try for a 2nd backstab but eat a massive stack of torment. There’s a lot of skills that you can force a choice like this.
You can also proc the block from stealth, that way they can’t actually see it until they’re hit with the torment. This is obviously a bit more limited in application, but is a technique you can use nonetheless.
Basically, if you’re good enough, you’ll have no trouble landing the block all the time against any class other than mesmer. Mesmers are incredibly tough due to clones tending to eat the block really easily, but it is possible, even on a mes…just far more difficult.
Wow, this guy is actually suffering from amnesia. Deceptive Evasion WAS a minor trait. It was in place of sharpened images.
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/45269-why-is-deceptive-evasion-forced-on-us/
Note the date. BETA. Deceptive Evasion EXISTED as a minor. Maybe you weren’t here when the class was actually better and got nerfed to hell due to spvp whine. I’ve been here since the very first beta events I don’t need to be told what did and didn’t happen.
Two things.
1. Beta is beta. Saying something was “nerfed in beta” is equivalent to saying “The devs weren’t actually finished making the game yet, and made changes before it was released.” Any changes that happened before release can’t actually be called a nerf or a buff, that’s just ludicrous. I’ll just keep my view on changes that happened once the game was actually finished.
2. There’s a lot of extremely good reasons as to why DE is a major and SI is a minor. There’s literally no situation where having SI can be a bad thing. There are, however, quite a few builds that purposefully choose not to take DE for one reason or another. This could be for aggro purposes, if you want clones specifically on certain targets for a reason, if you don’t want them to overwrite phantasms, there’s quite a few potential situations where DE is non-optimal.
(edited by Fay.2357)
Ok now I’m pretty sure you’re just trolling or being obtuse. Phantasm cooldowns were not changed to be “normalized”, they do different amounts of damage with different effects so putting them all on the same (higher, they didn’t reduce the cd on any of them) cooldown is stupid to begin with. Look at iwarden, it still has a higher cooldown than the other ones, as does illusionary mage while phantasmal swordsman has a whopping 10 secs lower cd than iMage. Can you please stop being so dishonest.
The iMage is still a bit of an anomaly on the high side, but the others make sense. The iWarden has strong utility in addition to the damage, and so it has a higher cooldown.
Then you give a non-answer to deceptive evasion. Another troll or meaningless reply.
Ok, let me be crystal clear. What you said happened never happened. Literally every part of what you said was completely false. Deceptive evasion was never a minor trait. It was never moved. You’re completely wrong.
Shatter damage was touched if the standard damage a shatter build could do with shattered strength was nerfed by nerfing access to might stacking. You are so dishonest and nitpicky about this, it’s as if they took away ele might stacking, it wouldn’t be called nerfing the damage of their skills. The numbers on their abilities and that of many classes in pvp is often balanced around the access to boons certain classes have.
You’re ignoring what actually happened. Shattered strength use to provide one stack of might for 3 seconds per clone. They buffed it to 3 for 10s, decided (mistakenly, imo) that it was too strong and nerfed it down to 1 for 10s.
So, the end result of this buffing and nerfing was still an overall buff. The turbocharged state only lasted for about 3 weeks, you can hardly call this period of buff/nerf “gutting shatter damage”.
Because it’s getting tiresome arguing with a guy who says shatter isn’t nerfed when specs centered around it have been abandoned in favor of other ones.
And this can be seen in the fact that most popular PvP builds still rely on shatters….ah right, that actually contradicts your statement.
Fixing thread.
/15char
They didn’t normalize phantasm cooldowns, please keep up with the changes before calling them lies. They flat out increased phantasm cooldowns for spvp reasons.
Yes, they did normalize phantasm cooldowns. A couple were significantly shorter than others, and so they increased those to be in line with the rest. This happened within the first couple months of release iirc.
I’d also love to know what “myriad” condition removals you have outside slotting null field, because I can tell you my ele can clear conditions baseline with his weaponskills as can a necro, but I’m either giving up mobility, stunbreaks, or cc in my utility bar to deal with conditions since all mesmer weaponskills are virtually empty of side utility except for the odd few miserable stacks of vulnerability or a short duration cripple.
Well, you can take the removal mantra, null field, pDisenchanter is extremely potent, traiting mender’s purity allows any heal to remove conditions and it synergizes extremely well with the heal mantra. You can also trait for removal on the torch skills, though that’s more niche. Lastly, you can trait to remove conditions when shattering, and that’s a really powerful condition removal if you choose to build that way.
Clone generation WAS nerfed. Deceptive Evasion used to be a minor trait in dueling, in place of sharpened images. PvP complaints came in, and it was turned into a major trait instead. Not everyone wants sharper images in their build, but deceptive evasion was good for any shatter build, hell it’s good for the sole reason of othere feast and compounding power by keeping your c lone uptime up. So now if you want deceptive evasion, you have to give up something else.
I’m not sure how many ways I need to tell you you’re wrong, but you’re still wrong.
Shatter damage WAS nerfed. We used to have significant might stacking via shattered strength in the master illusions minor trait, and they took it away. Apparently maintaining 15+ stacks of might is something only warriors and elementalists should be able to do by themselves.
No, they nerfed the might stacking, and they nerfed it about 3 weeks after having buffed it, apparently deciding they didn’t want us to stack might. They never touched shatter damage.
Never expect balanced numbers of skills here. You’ll probably be disappointed.
At this point, I’m holding out that the new skills and trait line aren’t chock-full o’ suck.
Precisely this. We’ve already seen how good they are at designing new stuff for mesmer in the new grandmaster traits. I’m just hoping to avoid a repeat of that.
(edited by Fay.2357)
Well think about it: the shield doesn’t necessarily mean off hand weapon. Maybe Mesmer use it their main hand leaving the offhand open to say a pistol, Bang! You’re a Riot police officer.
This would be cool…except we saw mesmer using shield as the offhand in the teaser video.
I was doing the math, we are in desperate need of a new mainhand weapon.
This is true, and anyone that plays mesmer knows it. Unfortunately, the Anet devs don’t play mesmer, and didn’t get the memo. We’re getting shield with HoT, and nothing’s going to change that at this point. Chalk it up to some combination of gross incompetence and willful ignorance.
In other thread someone said ether feast is only viable healing. I wrote about my experience how Ether Feast healed just a tiny amout – visually checking the health ball – from good amount below half to some amount below the half. Not effective at all.
EF heals 5,590 which is 1/4 of the full health. In WvW, when health drops to 10% pretty fast, getting health to 35% is not enough – with that cooldown. In WvW, 20 seconds is long time.
If a gameplay video recorder can record just the bottom of the screen, I could try record actual cases. Many times it feels like the health does not increase by 1/4.
Ether feast heals for 5590+640 per illusion. If you’re using it right, you have 3 illusions when the heal activates. This means the total heal from ether feast is 7510, or over 33% of hp even if you’re running full tank with 22k hp, and more for anything glassier than that.
You seem to be insinuating that ether feast doesn’t actually heal that much. Well, it does. Obviously if you’re poisoned you won’t get the full effect, and if you have agony on you it won’t heal fully, but other than those 2 cases it heals for precisely as much as it says it does. If you actually bother recording it yourself or even just watching any of 10 billion mesmer videos that use ether feast, you’d see that for yourself.
God the mobility of mesmers is the worst, get a long duration cripple on you after you used your heal, and you’re going nowhere.
Yeah, unless you have one of many other condition removals available to you.
There’s so many annoying things about the class, just like how your clones do nothing at all without heavy trait investments, how shatters suck without heavy trait investment (and even then it’s pitiful, people talk about phantasm damage yet my necro can pump out life blasts that do the same damage as an iswordsman nuke and pierces in a line, and necro isn’t even a top tier class).
Having things be poor without heavy trait investment is the name of the game for mesmer. We have a lot of mechanics that can do a lot of different things. In order to solidify and focus on one particular thing requires you to trait for it. This isn’t an objectively bad thing.
Then you have skills like Time Warp which actually WORSEN spells like meteor shower and ice bow by actually shortening the duration of the skills so it’s not actually a damage gain.
Yeah, this is definitely flat out wrong.
yet time and again they’ve gutted shatter damage
No they haven’t.
clone generation (via deceptive evasion change)
No they haven’t.
increased vastly the cooldown on phantasms
Not since like the first month of the game when they normalized all the cooldowns.
Look, I’m not exactly pleased with the state of the class right now, but I like to make sure my complaints have a solid basis in reality.
-snip-
As has been mentioned and repeated, condition damage is perfectly viable if you’re soloing. If you ever play with a party, then it’s total trash because all of those lovely damage conditions you’ve got will be overwritten by everyone else, lowering your dps to nonexistent.
You should pretty much just get rid of the soldiers amulet completely, it doesn’t work on mesmer and never has really.
This is a reasonably correct statement, but for all the wrong reasons.
We either go full burst, or full condi. Mesmers due to their terrible, and I mean terrible means of dealing with conditions on themselves let alone a group are not good using soldiers amulet for sure.
Mesmers have some of the very strongest condition removal in the game. You just simply have to choose to take it. It can sometimes be awkward to take condition removal on a mesmer, but saying that mesmers are terrible at it is just completely disingenuous.
Soldiers amulet doesn’t work well on anyone because it simply doesn’t have the necessary stats for doing damage. Power alone doesn’t do anything; you need power, precision, and ferocity. You’ll see tanky builds using the celestial amulet for this reason: it provides power, precision, ferocity, and stats for condition damage as well.
Soldiers is really only used in situations where conditions don’t work, you need to be really tanky, and your damage output isn’t the most important thing. This basically means WvW frontline zerging.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAR8flknpRtVqxQNMrNiqBhyu8FSGgFU6OsteC-TZhAABUcFAC4BAQ4+DoVGAgDCAA
well I’ve taken your advice and maybe this build works better but i’m still sticking with the torch major trait.
Actually, my advice was this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAR8flknpRtVqxQNMrNSqxgyvCj0D0QAl8juB-TZhAABUcFAC4BAQ4+DoVGAgDCAA
You’re completely missing the point though. This build doesn’t do anything. It doesn’t have any way to actually do damage, so you can’t pressure anyone. You can remove conditions well, you can strip boons pretty effectively, and you’re reasonably tanky…but you have no stability or projectile denial, so a longbow ranger could take you apart pretty easily. That means that you can’t kill people and you can’t bunker on a point. There’s not much else available to do.
If you play shatter expect to be average cause your using the same spec as majority of mesmers
This is an interesting conclusion. Would you mind walking us through the unique logic you must have used to arrive at it?
I’d rather have a specialization that focused on large aoe control and light damage; as in a set of skills that all have increased maximum target caps.
With the first major trait in illusion compounding power having illusions on the field gives me a lot of dps + Domination gives all illusions 15% more dmg anyway. Iillusionary elasticity gives mirror blade more bounce and also to the mage and disenchanter.
With the stats you’ve picked, none of those are going to do any damage whatsoever. Additionally, I’m pretty sure elasticity doesn’t work with the pDisenchanter, and the iMage has really funky bounce logic.
The minor trait under illuisons also reduces the cooldown on illusions.
I drop damage with them on the field even if my crit rate is low. And stay alive a while when I can remove conditions and hobble away with prestige and or decoy.
No, you really aren’t doing any damage with them at all. Power damage in this game is primarily a function of crits and crit damage. You have neither, just highish power. Yeah, you’ll stay alive a little bit of time, but you won’t actually be able to bunker a point without stability and some sort of range denial.
confounding suggestions is there as a good way to daze the target with F3 shatter. which also adds confusion with the first minor trait under Illusions. I don’t use mantras so why would I pick empowering mantras?
The obvious alternative that comes to mind is using the greatsword cooldown trait. That won’t actually make this build work at all, but it’s better than what you have.
Ascended is like 5% stat difference compared to exo?Sounds quite unimportant,even expensive food could make bigger difference.
That’s armor. Ascended accessories are a very large difference.
Well, I’ll be slightly more direct than Chaos.
Confounding suggestions is a massive waste, there’s no reason to take that trait.
Between soldier amulet and traveler runes, you have a lot of power…and zero damage. Your crit chance is 15% and you don’t even take phantasmal fury, so nothing you do is going to anything other than slightly tickle.
At 22k hp and 2500 armor you’re reasonably tanky…but your traitset and weapons say that you’re supposed to be an offensive build, so that doesn’t work at all.
In general, this build is going to do no damage, minimal CC, and won’t work as a bunker due to weapon/utility choices and the inherent difficulty in bunking in PvP as a mesmer.
Gates can be taken without rams.
This is a true statement. That doesn’t mean that it’s efficient or quick to do it that way.
The start is slow but end 30% goes easily.
…wat
If they slightly fix the gate in middle of our attack, it can be taken down without rams.
This is true by the axiom of ‘a gate can be taken down without rams’. I’m not sure how it’s relevant otherwise.
Mesmer’s weak power can be seen when enemy rams are destroyed. I use all what I have with gs + sword/* and shatters, but it takes minutes. Warrior and the like melts the ram down pretty fast. They always come to help.
If the argument you’re trying to make is that mesmers do less damage than warriors autoattacking…I’m not sure why you’re bothering. It’s not like this is a hidden fact that nobody acknowledges. Warriors do far more damage than mesmers do when not purely looking at burst damage. This doesn’t make mesmers useless, nor does it necessarily make warriors overpowered.