Guild Wars 2

Hello, I wondered if anyone could provide me with a list of dungeon/paths which are soloable for a warrior at the moment and which ones you would recommend for someone starting out in terms of dungeon soloing.

I currently main 30/25/0/0/15 full zerk warrior and have dabbled with soloing a few bits and bobs but want to try and get into it a bit more seriously and methodically.

If i’ve missed an obvious thread/link than I apologise in advance.

I agree OP, great idea.

It is very annoying, I wouldn’t mind it so much if the anti bot thing was set to catch people spamming orders faster than a human possibly could. But the fact is, it is just set at way to slow a threshold currently.

A slightly blind geriatric could post orders and get caught out for “being too fast”.

Beldin.5498:

Fenrir.3609:

Gift of Mastery -

WvW rank 200.
Solo’d a dungeon achieve.
Solo’d Lupi achieve.
“Has been on the top 100 spvp rank list” achieve.

Solo 3-headed Wurm.
Also they create a new Superboss called 100-headed Hydra that must be killed on EVERY Server and Overflow at the same time.

Three man the LA knights with naked characters all with the surname “McWiggles”. No one else should be allowed one.

The real issue here is where they are trying to put “harder” content.

If it was the remit of instanced solo/dungeon/guild raid sized content, then it wouldn’t be an issue, you could simply avoid people who are either bad or just not interested in that kind of stuff.

By trying to do raiding differently (i.e. jam it into the open world environ) they have made life very hard for themselves. Good players will moan that “bads” are making the events fail, bad players will moan that the content needs a nerf and it shouldn’t be about the “elitists” and everyone will moan about “faceroll zergs” if the content is too easy.

Azreell.1568:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Azreell.1568:

This is an interesting message.

The entire topic would be similar to asking yourselves, If you think the government can make you a better person.

Bottom line is it can’t.

Anet itself can’t make anyone a better player and they shouldn’t even try as it would be wasted resources in attempting it.

If that were true, that would mean that every game designer ever has wasted time and precious resources, by providing players with useless tutorials.

Not exactly an idea I subscribe to.

This game does have a tutorial system. It’s called the leveling process.

Beyond that – there is absolutely nothing that can be done to improve said players skill level beyond said player investing time and effort in improving himself.

Also, As stated some players are good and some are bad. There is no equality when it comes to skill and it’s silly to think that there could be.

And the games leveling process serves as a god awful tutorial. Hence alot could be done to improve the skill level of the average player.

The fact that people have different skill/potential skill levels and that not everyone is the same, does not mean that through experience and challenge the average person cannot improve. Given the right mechanics and encounters which drive practice and challenge, you would find many probably would indeed improve.

Purple Miku.7032:

I started laughing the moment the video started, with that awkward-as-hell male Norn battlecry.

This is brilliant.

Yeah, that cracked me up as well.

Good video OP.

LordByron.8369:

If there were 2 parties in LFG…
GWWW
and
Ele Ele Mesmer Mesmer

Wich would you choose?

Not to mention nobody will ever say no to a warrior…even if there are alread 3 in party…

I’d opt for party one purely because of the guard, not due to the warriors. I’d also quite happily join party two as it happens.

Not to mention a) I see non warriors getting dungeons all the time and b) non warriors make up a significant part of high end dungeon meta groups.

I’m not really sure how someone who plays an ele (I think you do but am not 100% sure) can say non heavy classes have a difficulty getting dungeons when ele is one of the most in demand dungeon classes going. Necros and rangers in pugs maybe have some issue (although there is a fantastic video up in the dungeon sub forums of 5 MM necros running CoF1).

Yes it probably is easier to get in pug/scrub dungeon groups as a guard or warrior, but trying to insinuate that people are forced into going heavy to get a group for dungeons is just not the reality of the situation.

Gift of Mastery -

WvW rank 200.
Solo’d a dungeon achieve.
Solo’d Lupi achieve.
“Has been on the top 100 spvp rank list” achieve.

Get a token for each and whack them in the forge.

Full legendaries can’t be bought on the TP, only pres and mats. Everything else can stay the same.

There we go, that makes them more “legendary” and should cut the numbers down a fair bit.

LordByron.8369:

TL:DR

A huge part of PvE players rerolled at least 1 warrior or 1 guardian to be able to access Dungeons.

That is the reason warrior is popular, anet forced almost anyone to play one.

Yeah, no one ever wants eles or mes in dungeons right, oh wait…

Katastrofi.5816:

“It’s the economy, stupid”

Unless you play the (economic) game, you will never be “rich.” Grinding 10 dungeons a day will get you nowhere.

It depends how you define “rich” I guess, but you can make a great deal of money from pve.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Inconsistency really is a recurrent problem with AoE markers (as well as other mechanics). I for one had a hard time timing the cone AoE of blue holo because unlike the knight’s pull, you have to dodge in the middle of the AoE cast; I manage it mostly now, but most people get hit by it regularly.

Again, it’s pretty easy to learn what to do in a short space of time in that encounter (you can toggle “walk” on and stroll around the holo parts without much trouble). The trouble is quite a large number of people simply don’t pay enough attention, part of the reason that is the case is because the encounters don’t make them pay attention, and part of the reason is down to the players themselves. Well, lag issues aside ofc.

Personally I think it is a great idea to have subtly and not so subtly different encounter mechanics, that way it keeps you on your toes, makes you adapt and makes you actually pay attention to what is going on. So I am not convinved such “inconsistency” is a problem, although there are ofc question marks over what kind of content should see such mechanics.

Having said all that, it seems a bit run before jump really. If ANET wants to make more open world/large group centric content which makes people need to not only apply basic skills but also pay attention and adapt. Then they need to be adding more low-mid level open world/large scale content (and/or tutorials) which gives the average player a grounding in the basics, makes them comfortable with them and allows them to become second nature so they can adapt to subtle changes in combat dynamics in endgame level events.

EDIT – My post seems a bit of a mess there in fairness so i’ll TLDR it:

“Inconsistencies” are fine so long as the groundwork has already been laid to promote the basic skills more in the first place.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

People get hit by it, because they dodge it. They’ve been conditioned by the game to dodge when a red circle appears. But when the knights do their pull attack, you must actually wait and dodge after the circle has disappeared. With all the lag and visibility issues, is it really surprising that a lot of players are struggling to understand the timing of this attack? It’s inconsistent design.

Well yes actually it is surprising unless it is their very first time, if you have eyes in your head it should become obvious very quickly when you have to dodge. Really the only excuse is lag.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Fenrir.3609:

Actually quite a large part of the issue is down to bad players. The game may be faceroll easy but they still don’t do even the most obvious things.

@OP, all ANET can really do is to start/keep introducing content which requires dps, blasting fields, buffs, dodging and group coordination etc. People will either start to learn to do this kind of stuff, or they wont complete the content.

No, no, no. The game itself is responsible for the breed of players it fosters. If the game does not lead players to learn the mechanics, they’ll never will. That is not their fault.

The game designers have some responsibility here.

I said a large part of it is down to the player, not all of it. So yes the designers have some responsibility here, but so does the player.

If you are suggesting it is all on the mechanics and not on the players at all. Well then you are quite clearly wrong.

Fungalfoot.7213:

The issue here isn’t bad players – it’s bad design. If they started designing content which was more than zerg fests and DPS races this issue would resolve itself. I’d love a return to Guild Wars with companions, hardmode zones and all that good kitten but that isn’t very likely to happen anymore now is it?

And why would you support blatant gold sinks like foods and vendor buffs? If anything you should be calling for them to removed so ANet won’t balance the game around them anymore. Maybe then we’d see a bit more balance in WvWvW. The casuals aren’t going to pay up anyway so why even bother? There is no skill involved in passive buffs.

Actually quite a large part of the issue is down to bad players. The game may be faceroll easy but they still don’t do even the most obvious things.

@OP, all ANET can really do is to start/keep introducing content which requires dps, blasting fields, buffs, dodging and group coordination etc. People will either start to learn to do this kind of stuff, or they wont complete the content.

People can form whatever groups they want and those who want to blitz dungeons want to minimize the chance of having to carry dead wood, although AP is a bad metric to use as far as I am concerned.

Join a group that is happy to see low level, low AP toons take part or form your own group.

Sorry it’s a bad idea which is simply not needed.

Bevillian.1260:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Berserker warriors were only the go-to class in the PvE meta during the heyday of CoF1. Nowadays, while one warrior is a good addition to a party, multiples bring less efficiency than bringing a mix of professions, including, possibly, a sword ranger.

Wrong. 5 Warriors can crush every single dungeon faster than any combo of classes. You must have never been in a group with 5 good warriors fully geared. Champs go down like vets, and Legendaries go down like champs or faster. In PvP, Warriors own that too. Nothing can burst faster while negating dmg at the same time. Warriors destroy all. I however will never run berzerker, because people who do, don’t understand why it’s a waste of stats, and that you do not pull any more damage then if you correctly setup your stats and traits the correct way instead of going gimmick.

That is incorrect. How many of the dungeon record times are set by five man warrior groups again?

As for not running zerker because it’s a waste of stats…..

@OP, not everyone runs zerk warriors because a) other classes are good/needed and b) not everyone wants to play a warrior.

TChalla.7146:

Essence Snow.3194:

TChalla.7146:

Essence Snow.3194:

My thoughts on it would remain the same as long as the 1 avenue was far beyond others. It wouldn’t matter if it were pvp tourneys, dungeons, event farming, etc etc….

Here’s the issue though… the Trading Post needs to work the way it does to accommodate everyone playing how they want to play. And again, someone else making more money than the next guy shouldn’t matter one iota as long as everyone is having fun. Does someone else making more money than you cause you to not have fun? If so, you might want to ask yourself why that bothers you so much. If not, good. Then go have fun.

It doesn’t NEED to at all. There are other ways. The reason it is the way it is, is b/c it’s easy. It doesn’t require any more creative thought.

Again idk how many times I have to repeat this……It’s not about individuals…it’s about the game as a whole. I personally flip and speculate, but I also recognize it’s not remotely balanced (which is why I do it). I believe while in my best interests, it’s not in the best interest of the game as a whole.

So I’ll ask the question again. How could it be worked differently without hurting the playerbase as a whole? I’ve said why I think it needs to work as it does. I need to see another way that doesn’t hurt the players, regardless of how they play or how much time they play. And hurting any form of player type hurts the game.

It doesn’t need to be worked differently because those that complain about “balance” have been unable to not only provide evidence which suggests said imbalance is harmful, but even to explain exactly what that imbalance is.

Some people assume that because a small number of players are able to have a higher profit ceiling through TP activities than those who stay purely “off the TP grid”, that this somehow automatically is “unfair, unbalanced and harmful” to the game in general. Ofc, there is zero evidence which actually supports this position.

Essence Snow.3194:

When have I ever said “you can only get stuffz if you flip”?

I am simply providing a contrary viewpoint to many in this forum who are vested. I would hate for players to come in here and think everything is great without giving any thought that it might not be as such based on one tone of feedback.

Whilst i’m at this moment involved in a debate with you, I am in no way aiming everything at your good self and I appreciate you taking the time to put your views across. So no, I’m not suggesting you per say stated that, although it is somewhat insinuated within the whole disparity argument.

But take a look over the thread, others like it and even some of the recent posts. You will see plenty of “It’s just not fair I put in effort as well!!!!” and “only the nasty 1% who flip the TP can buy legendaries!!” kind of posts. The anti TP camp is full of moralizing and nerf crying, but provides precious little credible debate.

Essence Snow.3194:

By the same token you cannot provide evidence that it is not doing harm. It’s unfortunate but because of the overall lack of information we have access to this is why it’s open to debate.

I’m not advocating nerfs to a system, there is zero onus on me to have to provide evidence to the contrary at the moment, especially given the fact that the pro nerf camp are providing no evidence which requires any real rebuttal.

As it happens, the very fact that people are more than capable of earning a very large amount of gold, more than enough to get the required items and the luxury ones, via non TP methods. In and of itself points to the fact that in the very least, the argument that “you can only get stuffz if you flip” is incorrect.

If someone is going to ask for a nerf and speaks about game breaking disparity. Then they really need to prove that is the case, citing evidence and going into explicit detail.

When and if someone comes up with that evidence and those details, then the onus will be on myself and the other pro TP camp posters to provide factually based, specific counter arguments.

In all seriousness, you cannot be suggesting that people agree with the need for nerfs based on an argument which is currently tantamount to a combination of moral grandstanding, players “feelings” and a shovel load of hyperbole?

DogCompany.1062:

Fenrir.3609:

DogCompany.1062:

Based on your statement, Guild Wars 2 has created every class as a Hybrid-Type to where each and every character has it’s own support capabilities. Yet, with all the flexibilities of each class, only one profession has found to be useful regardless of the stats designed for several variations of professions that are not used by, I would assume, a large majority of players. Now, why do you think that is?

What?

Basically, Guild Wars 2 created classes to where they are flexible to any profession they want to choose from, Healer/Tank/Berserker/etc, but non-Berserker-Type Gear/Items have been shunned and are rarely used in the game. That’s what I’m saying, in short.

1. There is no such clear delineation as you are suggesting.
2. You can encompass support and damage at the same time, because support is not tied to stats per say. Which is a fantastic thing.
3. Non zerk builds are used all the time, you realise there is content outside of dungeons right? They are used in lots of dungeon pugs, by lots of OW pve players, by lots of wvw players and by lots of spvp players. Do you think spvp warriors use the full glass dungeon meta or something?
4. If people want to be part of the speed clear meta, they should adopt the meta, learn that support is not tied to “muh toughness”, understand that heal spamming from the back is not needed and get on with it.

I just don’t understand the lolfacetank/healspammer mentality. We have a system which enables the likes of guardians the ability to provide awesome support and great damage. We have a system which allows them to wear PVT et al to learn on and then zerk as they improve their skills. We have a system which sees more tanky/condi/cc builds being the meta in the competitive aspects of the game (wvw/spvp) and also being able to do all the pve content. And yet that is not enough for some… They want to take their over 9000 toughness, no damage, heal spammer into elite dungeon speed run groups. I mean, really?

In short:

A. Zerker groups do use support.
B. More tanky specs are used extensively throughout the game.
C. Going back to the dark days of dedicated tanks and no damage heal spammers is not a good idea.
D. Complaining that a no damage facetank isn’t part of the speed run meta is a bit daft.

Essence Snow.3194:

Q1 Again JS (on behalf of Anet)withholds numbers from us. However we can (by experience) conclude that players are limited to how much they can make via activities other than playing the tp. For example: Can non tp methods consistently generate 1k g in a hour? (no, unless one has lottery winning luck…ie not consistently) Can tp methods do it? (yes, with enough investment it can be done consistently) The reason for this are direct mechanics….. Foe A only has chance to drop so much, events can only be completed so many times a day, DR, nodes have direct harvest amounts, etc etc…

If you can’t get the evidence you need, how are you expecting to convince us exactly? I know how much I can make via pve and I know that it is more than enough to buy any item I want in the game. Now as far as I am concerned any potential disparity has zero impact upon the game and until you give us actual, concrete evidence and specific details to the contrary, your argument is prone to weakness.

Q2. The amount of potential profit via playing the tp is not directly limited like all other activities. It is limited by tp inputs (this number is so high it effectively doesn’t matter in a general view) and the participants. If participation ever got to a level where it brought playing the tp in line with other activities…the game would most likely cease being an adventure genre mmorpg.

See .1.

Q3*History has shown us time and time again how extreme disparity is harmful. All one needs to do is look to our past for our best indicator for our future. I described funneling and population in a prior post.*

No, I’m not asking for “history has shown us” anecdotes, I would like you to present specifics.

Q4. Loaded question but: Both yes and no. Some can some cannot. Some that play excessively can do so comfortably. Some can do so, but have to forgo other things to do so. Some simply cannot.

And ofc, everyone flipping the market is a billionaire right? It was not at all a loaded question. It is being insinuated by the anti TP crowd that unless you flip the TP, you can’t afford “teh good stuffz”. That is patently flase.

Q5. Mostly yes, but this is in fact a game which exceed necessities.

I would be amazed if someone cannot buy the basics, as for it being a game which exceeds necessities, that is answered in .4, they can.

Just for kittens and giggles imagine if soloing lupi in <5mins gave a reward that was worth 2k gold to other players. Can any players do it? Yes Can a lot of players do it? No As more players are able to do it the worth of the item would decrease, yet still be far beyond any other reward in the game. Now some players would be earning 100s of 1000s of gold per day while most will be earning in the 10s. Is this okay?

If soloing lupi was a zero sum game in which all the groups loaded in at one time and had to fight each other before getting the kill. If it acted as a gold sink instead of a gold pump, if it offered fluctuating profits and took 100’s to 1000’s of gold just to enter the instance, gold which was at risk. If it paid out that profit over days/weeks and not instantly. If you could only make 10s via other methods. Then the analogy might be getting close, well no it would still be daft. I thank you for at least trying to debate this but that kind of stuff is a bit pointless.

You/others proclaim that the disparity is too large and yet give no actual evidence whatsoever as to the size of that disparity. “I am limited by events/pve but on the TP I can make infinite monehz” isn’t evidence.

You/others proclaim that the disparity is harmful to the game and yet give no actual evidence pointing to that being the case. Moreoever it has been pointed out that in fact, yes you can buy luxury items and make massive amounts of gold via non TP methods.

You/others state that an artificial limit should be enforced on the TP in order to normalize gains and yet as well as not giving any real evidence as to why that is needed, you also fail to take into accound the fact that no, completely disparate systems should not all have the same potential upside.

As it stands these are the facts:

1. You can make a large amount of gold in this game via non TP methods, more than enough gold to buy both the necessities and the end game luxury items.

2.There has been zero actual, specific evidence given to suggest that the TP in it’s current incarnation is driving a level of disparity in earnings which is harmful to the game (as attested to by fact 1).

Now if someone wants to argue that the TP needs to be nerfed, that the disparity is too large and that pve players can’t buy stuff. The onus is on them to actually provide the evidence for that being the case. Not on the people to refute it.

Q1. How much gold can you make via non TP methods and is there a limit on the number of players that can do as such enforced by mechanics or a competitive zero sum system?

Q2. How much gold can you make via TP methds and is there a limit on the number of players that can do as such enforced by mechanics or a competitive zero sum system?

Q3. How is any disparity found harmful to the economy, (please cite evidence)? Note, I am not asking about player perception, I am not asking for a moral based argument. I would like you to demonstrate that the disparity (using the figures you arrive at from Q1+Q2) is actually harmful to the games economy.

Q4. Are non TP players able to buy luxury items, yes or no?

Q5. Are non TP players able to buy the items they need for their non TP actitivies, yes or no?

I have other questions but flooding you with them is unfair. Again, I am more than willing to give a detailed set of answers if and when someone is able to demonstrate this sense of disparity and unfairness with explicit details and specifics.

I’m sure you genuinely believe that the current system is wrong, but I fail to see any actual evidence being given for that being the case, or any evidence as to why normalization is needed.

Essence Snow.3194:

1. Is this really a valid justification?

Yes.

2. This applies how?

It points to the fact that both systems are completely different and thus expecting the same potential is daft. It also points to the fact that the TP system is not a gold pump, unlike the non TP derived system.

3. Anet puts restrictions on every activity if deemed to produce to much.

Yes, let’s make everything more complex by place more restrictions in the game which are not needed. The fact that Anet haven’t restricted the TP in the way some want should tell you all you need to know.

4. Measures can be taken to control influx of gold.

See response .3

5. Not sure what your point here is.

You want to impose limits on an income source which is not stable/normalized in the sense that pve profits are. Again it points to the fact that comparing the two systems and expecting them to have the same cap/return is daft.

6. TP risk can be minimized via use of 3rd party tools. These range from things like Spidy, spreadsheets, notifiers, and even bots. Other activities can include risks as events can fail and armor can incur costs (although minimal it’s not zero risk)

It is still higher risk and higher resource/seed capital dependant.

7. While they may not be the sole factor, they with out question are a contributing factor.

Please provide evidence which points to the need for nerfs.

8. Unfortunately we are not privy to the numbers. (I suspect for good reason….it would be scary to see the imbalance)

So no evidence then.

9. By all means play pve and see what kind of rewards that’ll get you if you want proof.

I have and others I know have pulled in 1k+ gold from pve in a month with zero TP flipping and zero lucky pre drops. You can make very large amounts of gold via pve, very quickly. Can you make as much as if you master the TP, or if you don’t have the time to farm or to speed run dungeons? No. But that was not the point made.

10. * They don’t need the same potential. They however do need to be in the same ball park. Playing the TP is not even remotely close to the rest of the “systems”.*

Please tell us how much you can potentially make from pve and how much you can from flipping. As I have already pointed out, if you have the time, inclination and ability, you can make massive amounts of gold from pve.

11*The game reward structure is set up around the trading post.*

Which in no way invalidates the fact that you can use limit orders yourself if you so wish.

12.There however are things stopping players from exponential profit potential in all other activities.

Doesn’t actually address the point made. Again, there is nothing to stop people attempting to profit from the TP.

Given that:

1.exponential vs linear

You keep saying that and yet I see no actual evidence, examples or numbers given.

2. creates an ever expanding wealth disparity

The evidence for this is where?

3. Again trading post risk can and is minimized by use of external tools and the “gold pump system” can be managed according to need as Anet controls most variables.

Still higher risk, still doesn’t address the fact that disparate systems do not need the same upside, still doesn’t mean that having to layer in more restrictive systems to combat a non issue is a good idea.

Is it really?

Yes.

The profit potential of most activities is limited by direct game mechanics. Trading however is not. Trading is only limited by indirect means. Thus most activities profit potential is linear where trading is exponential.

Yes it is limited and again, please provide evidence.

What does this do? It creates an ever widening wealth disparity between trading and everything else.

Evidence?

Why does that matter? <snip> We see it time and time again for good reason.

If we don’t smooth out inequalities we effectively funnel players or worse chance losing players.

There is also the gold seller/bot issue, but that is a whole other can of worms.

We need to see proof of this disparty and why it is harmful, not anecdotes. As for some players and their take on “fairness”, you do not balance a games systems or economy on the perception of a few people who think they are getting the short end of the stick.

Continued…

Essence Snow.3194:

Yes I am referring to you and many like you. Instead of answering the question you flipped it. This is typical of political debates where one side is unwilling to answer thus they evade…and it’s blatantly obvious.

Since I asked 1st, I’ll ask again and I’ll go one further, by agreeing to answer your question after you’ve answered mine, but somehow I doubt you will. The ball is in your court. Will you answer and surprise me or will you predictably evade again?

I’ll list them and not flesh them out as you are frankly copping out.

1. One system is competitive, the other is not.
2. One system is zero sum, the other is not.
3. One system is has a cap/restrictions on how many people can earn how x amount of gold, the other does not.
4. One system is a gold sink, the other is an inflationary driving gold pump.
5. One system is in flux/is player driven with no set average profit, the other is stable.
6. One system is mid-high risk, the other is zero risk.
7. There is zero evidence given that suggests that the whale traders are imbalancing the economy.
8. There is zero evidence to suggest that the TP in it’s current incarnation is bad for the economy.
9. There is zero evidence to suggest that due to the current set up, pve players are unable to afford luxury items.
10. If you take the normalization argument to it’s logical conclusion then all systems regardless of risk, competition or any other factor need to have the same potential upside. Which is lunacy.
11. People can avoid paying flippers using limit orders if they wish.
12. There is nothing stopping any player using the TP to attempt to profit.

Given that:

1. There has been no evidence presented thus far which demonstrates exactly what the disparity in potential is.
2. There has been no evidence given which shows how the gold made by the people on the TP has had a negative impact upon the game.
3. We are comparing a higher risk, competitive, zero sum gold sink system with a zero risk, non competitive infinite gold pump system.

Then it is as clear as day why any talk of nomalization is ridiculous. Attempting to normalize the profit potential for the apex players within two completely disparate systems just to satisfy some moral ideal (when all players have access to said potential) is utterly insane.

Essence Snow.3194:

Thank you for actually answering the question. Most posters here will not answer questions as we can see from most of the replies so far.

I do hope you are not refering to me, for two reasons. First of all I have said repeatedly I would glady answer your questions should you bother to provide more detail. Secondly you have avoided answering the questions needed to provide that detail, as such bemoaning others for supposedly dodging questions is somewhat hypocritical.

If you honestly want people to justify some perceived issue with potential gold gain, why is it so difficult for you to go into more specific details on that issue?

What the debate should be:

Poster One: “The pve player can earn a maximum of x gold (provides evidence). The TP player can earn a maximum of y (provides evidence). Even though a much larger amount of players can earn x and only a much smaller amount of players can earn y, this potential disparity is harmful to the game because as we can see from the evidence z, the pve players can’t afford stuffz. Now how can you justify this?”
Poster Two: “Thanks for the clear, specific evidence. It can be justified because…”

What the debate is:

Poster One: “It’s unfair, how can you justify the disparity you smelly 1%ers, it’s like magnitudes and stuff!!”
Poster Two: “CSB”

Ohoni.6057:

Once you have done the above I will gladly point out (in list format) exactly why such deviations in potential gold returns across the system can and more importantly should exist.

I have the answer ready and waiting, but I am not going to waste my time pointing out specifics until the anti TP camp starts coming out with their own, specific, evidence based arguments, as opposed to the gibberish, moralising hyperbole which has been trotted out time and time again thus far.

Your ivory tower approach to all this is a great way to win sympathy. I imagine you rushed out to get the Monocles when they were still relatively affordable to us proles.

I couldn’t care less about winning sympathy and what I may or may not have bought in the past has absolutely nothing at all to do with the discussion at hand.

I made the reasonable request that a specific, clear and evidence based position is given before a specific, clear and evidence based response is warranted.

It’s nice of you to type that up and flesh out the guide for people who may not know the current meta build.

Here is the original meta guide by Nike:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/83915-axemace-dps-build-for-dungeons-and-fractals-101513/

DogCompany.1062:

Based on your statement, Guild Wars 2 has created every class as a Hybrid-Type to where each and every character has it’s own support capabilities. Yet, with all the flexibilities of each class, only one profession has found to be useful regardless of the stats designed for several variations of professions that are not used by, I would assume, a large majority of players. Now, why do you think that is?

What?

Essence Snow.3194:

Let me ask to any of ya’ll (I know y’all, but not where I live) what legitimate reasons do you have that profit potential from trading/speculating/etc should not be brought more in line with the rest of the game?

As far as I can tell there’s only one. It’s a major gold sink. That is something that could be remedied, so….ya…what reasons are there?

I will glady explain to you exactly why such “normalization” is a nonsense, but first you have to do something if you want a detailed answer.

Explain to us all exactly what the profit potential for x number of non TP players is and then explain to us the profit potential for y number of TP players is. Give us specifics so we know you are not spamming up the place with hyperbole.

Then perhaps you would be so kind as to give us concise and cogent reasons as to why any disparity you find in your evidence is a bad thing for the economy.

Once you have done the above I will gladly point out (in list format) exactly why such deviations in potential gold returns across the system can and more importantly should exist.

I have the answer ready and waiting, but I am not going to waste my time pointing out specifics until the anti TP camp starts coming out with their own, specific, evidence based arguments, as opposed to the gibberish, moralising hyperbole which has been trotted out time and time again thus far.

Enokitake.1742:

Pointing out you’d have to redesign the game from the ground up to do it, is intended to be an argument against it, not for it… :P

Ah, in that case I apologise for misunderstanding you.

Enokitake.1742:

That’s EXACTLY my point… lol. You’d have to redesign the game to make it so.

Why the fk would you redesign the game just so some nub stacking loads of toughness can be part of “da speed clear groupz!”?

If people are not capable of grasping the fact that they can provide support and do damage (not saying that is you as you have obviously pointed out that zerk groups do use support), or if people are unable to “go dps” and have to take crutch stats/builds. Then they should not expect to be anywhere near a speed clear team.

Have people really still not got their heads around the fact that “support” is not tied to your gear/stats?

Those zerk guards ARE providing support/defense, you don’t have to be full bunker clerics in order to do as such.

And no, nerfing active defense in order to try and promote lolfacetanks and zero dps heal spammers to the meta is a terrible idea.

“It’s not fair!!! We must all be rewarded the same, regardless as to what we are doing!

I mean, I can make massive amounts of gold doing non TP stuff, stuff which involves zero risk, zero competition and pumps gold galore into the economy (hello inflation my old friend) but oh no that’s not enough! There are a few people on the TP operating within a higher risk, competitive, zero sum system who might be making more than me. They must be nerfed!!!".

Seven pages of what boils down to – “I have no idea of how markets work but some people might be making more gold than me so please nerf/change them”. Fantastic.

Zerk groups don’t use “defence” or “support”? You mean aside from cc, blocks, reflects, blinds, stability, active defence, spike, ret and boons?

Yes going full glass, knowing what you are doing, running in a coordinated group and using ACTIVE support/defence is so much worse/“linear” than facetanking in PVT or standing at the back in clerics spamming shout heals.

Neural.1824:

note: this post may come across as rather defensive, but there’s not any particular edge to it that I’m trying to get across, I’m just relating things from my experience, so please don’t take it as an attack

Snip

It didn’t come across as defensive or an attack at all

Having said that, i’m not sure exactly how to respond to it (or even if I was meant to!).

You didn’t/don’t have much success in terms of gold gain in PVE and now have found some helpful people and have started to make more gold than you ever have before via the TP. Great!

But the point remains that you can indeed make a lot of gold from non TP centric sources. Some people do run in large 24/7 trains (i’m on deso the FS train is always on the go and very fast), they do blitz dungeons in zerk groups, they do solo/sell dungeons, in short they do make a lot of money.

Anyway, i’m glad you are doing well on the TP, and I hope it continues for you.

Travlane.5948:

so running full zerk plus 30 in crit dmg line and 30 in healing line isnt zerk?

Not sure if you are being funny but no, it clearly isn’t. I’m not sure how anyone can think having 30 in the healing line is “full zerk” or anything close to it.

I have seen some convincing and well thought out threads/posts pointing to the fact that warrior is in too good a place at the moment, or at least certain aspects of it. Sadly, this thread isn’t one of them.

This is predominantly because you still seem to confuse what is essentially an issue with skill reqs and passive play, with something being “OP”. They are not the same thing.

If someone wants to make a case against passive cheese play and low skill reqs, they would cite the kind of arguments you have used (sort of).

If though someone wants to make a case for OP, then they would need to demonstrate exactly how and why, at the top tier of tpvp, warrior outperforms other classes in the major roles (point decap, control bunker, roamer/back point taker etc). Then demonstrate just why multiple warriors are utilized per team (across most of the teams, not one or two of them) at the top level.

They would not show how you can whomp noobs or list “1st in HP and armorz!”.

Note I’m not trying to defend warrior here per say, I just think the reasons and arguments presented in this thread seem to be unsuited to the intended purpose of trying to demonstrate the class as being OP.

And in all honesty, the title is rather leading/troll bait.

Neural.1824:

Fenrir.3609:

You can pull in 7-10G + on average per hour currently with ease in this game with little to no effort and zero risk.

“zero risk” is a subjective thing, but ok.

I have yet to see 5g in an hour without an exotic drop, and that’s doing world champ trains. Yellows aren’t worth dirt, and the T6 drop rate is abysmal (which I can’t sell anyway, since I have other goals, like gathering T6 mats to build a legendary).

I’ve seen a lot of people claiming you can make mad amounts of gold “just playing the game casually”, but I’ve never seen a single one of those claims hold true when I chase it. The only one that’s been golden is TP flipping.

I find it relatively easy to clear 7G per hour on average from pve, I certainly never pull less than 5-6g from champ trains (and there are more profitable things out there). I made ALOT of money from it in a very short time when I concentrated purely on farming and getting Dusk.

As for “playing the game casually”, you are right if you mean that in an activity centric sense. If someone does a “lol no stack” dungeon run, hangs about chatting to guildies and then does a bit of spvp. Then no, they won’t be making mega gold. I agree. But if you mean only say, a few hours a day, well that soon adds up and yes they can make a lot of gold.

The fact is that it IS possible to make a very large amount of gold, very quickly from non TP sources should you actively attempt to do it.

The same applies to flipping in fairness. If someone mucks about with 10g capital and does some casual flipping, they won’t be buying Eternity any time soon either.

If you can do it well and if you have the capital, then you can make the most on the TP (unless there is some hidden thing which I am unaware of). But it is more than possible to make more than enough gold to get luxury items in this game without becoming the games next Gordon Gekko and engaging in flipping et al.

Neural.1824:

Fenrir.3609:

People are insinuating you can only make masses of gold through flipping now?

Currently and historically there has always been ways of making tons of gold outside of flipping. More than enough to buy whatever you want, without taking on any risk whatsoever.

Care to elaborate on what said “ways” (plural) are? I make more money on the TP than in any other activity I’ve ever done in game. It’s the reason I use the TP in general. I’ve found it near pointless to try and get gold anywhere else, let alone actual drops. This game is the Sahara desert of drops/gold, and at the same time gold is the end game. The only way to craft high end items (you know, the desirable ones) is to grind gold and buy the lodestones or whatever other crap you need to make them. There is no such thing as looting the required components. Not if you don’t have 8 hours a day and 4 years to spend grinding against Farming Punishment and the like.

Historically there have been loads of gold sources, I wont bother to list them all but here are a few for you:

Orr farms.
SSC farms.
FS farms.
Deadeye Dunwell.
CoF1.
World boss rounds.

There has always been an option on the go.

Currently we have several obvious options:

Champ farms.
Dungeon speed runs.
Dungeon selling.

You can pull in a significant amount of money per hour (7-10G+ per hour) with zero risk and little effort in this game. Buying luxury endgame items is not the remit of TP flippers only, far from it.

As for making more money on the TP, good for you. You will note I never said that the TP didn’t offer more potential profit, I am all for the TP and feel that it should offer the greatest potential.

I was merely pointing out that the whole “you can’t make enough gold to get rare stuff without flipping” argument was total and utter rubbish, which it is.

People are insinuating you can only make masses of gold through flipping now?

Currently and historically there has always been ways of making tons of gold outside of flipping. More than enough to buy whatever you want, without taking on any risk whatsoever.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/83915-axemace-dps-build-for-dungeons-and-fractals-101513/

The best guide and info (imo) for the current optimal warrior zerk dungeon meta build.

Keep in mind the up coming ferocity change though, which might make full zerk more optimal than assassin/zerk mix.

Q: “If you had to choose just one set of armor for your warrior and stick with that for life, what would it be?”

A: Full zerk.

So, is this thread meant to be a joke then?

Or perhaps some kind of parody of all the other totally nonsensical and highly uniformed threads we see pop up on these boards every so often which posit major restrictions/nerfs to the TP?

Standing still and face tanking everything by stacking over9000 toughness and heal pot is the kind of epic gameplay experience we need for a bright, exciting future!

I mean why bothering moving out of the way of getting smashed in the face when you can simply take it on the chin and laugh.

Using skills and abilities, using active defense, using group coordination and thus being able to bring more damage to the fore to clear the content you have done several hundred times before a bit faster? Don’t be daft!

After all having glass dps be optimal in instanced pve makes it totally unfair on all the passive tanky spec guys who only dominate pretty much all of the the games competitive content and plough through the rest of it with relative ease. No they must be optimal in every single facet of the game, including instanced pve.

I for one cannot wait to bow down to our PVT overlords and experience exhilarating multi hour dungeon runs.

I’m not entirely sure why people think being made to strap on PVT or clerics and facetank some damage makes for challenging or interesting content.

It is also rather telling that those people who bemoan the zerk meta in instanced pve, more often than not fail to mention the fact that when considering the whole game their beloved tank/condi/cc specs are in fact the dominant force/meta for the main part.

The only mentality that needs fixing here is the one coming from the anti zerk camp if we are being honest about it.

“Zerk is easy and takes no skill, unlike my super dooper shout heal clerics facetank! You must think of the children and nerf those nasty zerkers!”. “It’s just not fair that my WvW lolzerg PVT warrior door smashing group is not as optimal in instanced pve as a dedicated full glass zerk group, burn them all!”.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Fenrir.3609:

This kind of thread is an example of why the Profession Balance forums were a bad idea from the start.

And the ranger CDI is (hopefully) the reason why it’s not.

One (potentially) useful thread which could have been done without a profession balance board, within a sea of nonsensical crying threads, doesn’t seem like the best trade off in the world. Although ofc, I do hope a lot of good comes from said thread.

This kind of thread is an example of why the Profession Balance forums were a bad idea from the start.

RoyalPredator.9163:

Meryn.6875:

RoyalPredator.9163:

But you ALL really should stop farming. This only leads AN to make more expensive sinks that normal players can not reach within logical timeframe.

Please tell me how to farm my t6-mats for my legendary
Anet making more expensive sinks is not my fault (or problem) but anets fault for not making an “normal-friendly environment”.

Play in lvl80 maps for the Heavy bags and open them.

Thanks for that, I needed a laugh this morning.