Guild Wars 2

My thoughts are that this thread is ripe for trolling.

Instead of simply saying “nerf x, buff y”, you should list detailed reasons and exact examples of the kind of things you are looking for.

This second part isn’t aimed at you OP so don’t take offense. But this profession balance board has become nothing more than a qq fest for people to yell out for nerfs everytime they get stomped.

No, although I am more than happy to pay a sub for the right game.

I don’t spend money in the Gem Store and I don’t think the game is good enough currently to warrant a sub fee in all honesty (nor are any others at the moment which I have tried either tbh).

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

Meehael.8240:

You guys are hopeless :P

You seem to be playing as if doing a chore. “In two weeks I’ll get my precursor, and then I have yet to see what to do next and if I’ll even bother with this business”. Then you’ll realize it’s boring and quit. Luck, face it, spices things up. In your case, for the worse, but nevertheless, it spices things up. It keeps you on your toes, and you might even rage-quit, but then you might come back a month later and try your luck again. Or completely abandon this legendary item business, and do something else you find appealing. But you never know when you’ll get the 1-in-5000 rate drop.

Seriously, I’m over and out. It’s drained me.

Did anyone order a killjoy?

((silence))

Precursor crafting has been one thing this game has been missing and is sorely in need of, to make that certain item of such value and importance more real for a great deal of us.

Why does it make it “more real” when you have zero idea as to how long or how expensive said crafting will be? Especially when the price of mats involved in crafting is not fixed but fluctuating.

corin.1298:

Fenrir.3609:

Why is this a thread again?

Because it happened.

Well in fairness what happened doesn’t really seem worth making a thread about, as alluded to by the part you seem to have cut out.

Jovel.5706:

Here’s how I think precursor crafting will go down.

• ArenaNet makes precursors craftable, the materials for it costing a good sum of gold (hundreds and hundreds of gold) and, if any achievements are tied to them (like taking the moa egg to the Sorrow’s Furnace in GW1 and fighting the Forgeman), will require hundreds of hours of gameplay and dedication and take the player all over the world and into WvW, and have them accomplish rough challenges (solo and guild challenges)

• The precursor market does not change by much, precursors still sold for large sums of gold

• The materials required for precursor crafting skyrocket in price through the roof

• People find ways to rush the process of crafting a precursor, with bans and patches all around

• _"Waaa waaaa I thought crafting precursors was going to make them easier to obtain ;-;! It would be easier to just play the Mystic Forge or get a rare drop! Waaaa!"

• “I thought this game was supposed to be grind-free, ArenaNet! I’m qutting waaaaa!”

• “I wanted a precursor for playing the game! Hey I exploited the hardest dungeon in GW2! I should get a reward for that! Crafting one is tooo hard ;-; please nerf, this isn’t fun, I thought this was going to be eeeeasssyyy!”

Calling it. Screenshot this post, there will be tears when this comes out. I’m also calling out the threads that will state that dumping rares/exotics into the Mystic Forge is easier than crafting one.

Pretty much. It will cost a ton and will involve an epic amount of time gating. Then there will be tears and a general increase in mat prices, causing more tears.

The funny thing is that all these “I have played 4000 hours!!” posters could have actually bought several pre’s by now if they had simply saved their gold for them.

Don’t waste gold in the mystic toilet, save gold towards a pre and you will get one quicker than you expect. If you happen to drop one in the mean time, consider it a fantastic bonus.

Whilst you could do it with one build/toon, having different, specialized builds/toons for pve/wvw/spvp (with an Asura character specifically for spvp) is more optimal.

I’ve personally wouldn’t consider using the same build for pve and pvp.

Horus Nightlight.1276:

Fenrir.3609:

If and when they add it, the time gating and grind involved will be at least as bad, if not a lot worse, than simply getting the gold and buying one in the first place. Getting Ascended gear is hardly “fun”, it is an expensive, time gated chore. Now imagine that x100 and you probably have an idea as to what it will be like.

I’m not entirely sure how much materials a precursor should cost. Should it be really more than an ascended since it is an “exotic” item? The argument I understand is that it is used to create a legendary, but legendary items already have crafting costs.

It will likely be comparable (or at least should be) to the average amount (based on percentage chance) you would have to spend throwing rares/exotics into the toilet in order to get one that way. So hundreds of gold at the current rate and pretty much the same price as just buying one. Otherwise they would completely kill that off and the markets which operate around that process. Unless a sufficiently long time gate is put into place for it (which there more than likely will be).

Eitherway, there is little chance (in my opinion) that the time gating and grind involved in getting them will be anything other than at least equal to (and probably a lot worse than) actually getting the gold and buying one.

If people are expecting it to be easier, faster or cheaper than buying or even using the mystic toilet (shudder), then I think they may be in for a nasty surprise. If it is easier or cheaper, then it will no doubt take longer via time gating, if it is faster, then it will no doubt be excessively expensive.

You got hit by one of the most highly telegraphed attacks from someone apparently in a full glass, one trick pony build, after you had burned all your counter moves/abilities early.

And yes given the cheese build most likely used, other classes could burst him down quickly (especially if he had burned up all his possible counters like you had).

Why is this a thread again?

If and when they add it, the time gating and grind involved will be at least as bad, if not a lot worse, than simply getting the gold and buying one in the first place. Getting Ascended gear is hardly “fun”, it is an expensive, time gated chore. Now imagine that x100 and you probably have an idea as to what it will be like.

In fairness, if they do add this crafting/scavenger hunt thing, it would be cool if it was for a whole new bunch of legendaries and it came with new titles.

As for the whole “x system is not legendary”, well none of the systems are remotely “legendary”, neither luck, buy or craft.

Personally I feel that unless they tie it to extremely elite level content which only highly skilled players can do, then it’s not legendary, it is merely a long, drawn out processes which anyone can do if they can be bothered. That certainly will not be the option Anet take though one would imagine.

Another pointless qq thread, but this time with a meaningless screenshot included. Bonus!

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What if I have no friends or guild? How am I supposed to do Elite Instanced content?

Then you LFG PUG it up, giving you access to the content.

You will probably fail a lot but then the onus is on you to make friends, find a premade or join a good guild if you want to have a high success rate chance on elite level content which requires team work and coordination.

The depressing thing is with the current state of the forum and the rabbid “nerf this, nerf that” mob out in force. I actually thought that this thread was going to be screaming for nerfs to them.

Neither skill is really competitive, but that has a fair bit to do with the current meta making other options far more vital, as opposed to just the skills themselves being totally lacklustre.

Is it such a good idea to nerf both damage output (the crit changes) and the ability to dodge (the vigor changes) at the same time?

Wouldn’t it have made more sense to tweak/change one and then look to alter the other once you have a better idea as to what those changes bring about?

Perhaps it doesn’t matter and the two are less related to one another than I assumed.

sorudo.9054:

i can’t dictate how others play, i also can’t play this game how i would like to play it because of the QD train.
you know, in an RP way, immerse my self in the story, do some DE’s.
so for now, i get all kinds of “you can’t dictate how i play” crap while the train is doing exactly that.

we now have QD with a “train exclusive” sticker on it, train junkies who get upset because they don’t like it that others say the truth and the oh so popular excuse (and even justification) of calling it a play style.
a play style doesn’t harm other play styles, trains do……

Nice, a mix of hyperbole and insults. The usual stuff put forward by the anti train crowd really.

This thread is a car crash and only serves as a platform for people to post non productive, non evidence based comments tantamount to “stop liking what I don’t like!!”

Nausiation.1469:

This is where it starts.

Stooperdale.3560:

“The reason few go to Orr, outside of temple events and ore runs is because it had the crud nerfed out of it. And the invasions are at this point, naff.”

Crud, nerfed, naff. Let me rephrase those descriptions. Changes were made to Orr to give serious scaling on the events for the number of players. This makes them seem naff compared to the trivial champion trains that have no scaling at all even for a raid sized group of players. Even after the scaling changes there were players in Orr doing the events. It was the reward changes to world bosses (guaranteed rare), dungeons (guaranteed coin), and champions (guaranteed purse) that pulled players elsewhere with each patch. If the rewards for scaled up Orrian events and non-scaling Queensdale champions were properly balanced then players would go back to Orr and Orr wouldn’t be seen as naff.

You realise the place has a history of being nerfed right?

Eitherway, they are “naff” outside of temples and node mining for the main part because they manage to combine boring content with lacklustre rewards.

And again, no. Nerfing the champ trains will not see people flooding into Orr for general gameplay, or doing invasions. It will simply see people packing back into the dungeons 24/7 to get gold, or see them farm the next best returning spot.

Let’s imagine somehow you are right, You nerf the champ trains and so force some people to go back to farming in CS. Wow, that’s awesome. Make people farm in another zone for less gold simply because you personally have a gripe with people running trains which have zero impact on your gameplay. That’s a truly brilliant improvement to the game.

If you want people to go back to Orr, ask from more enjoyable and more rewarding content. Not for nerf to already existing content in the hope it will force people there.

nagr.1593:

Yes, plz anet derail the trains.. why? because the noobs that do it actually make less gold than if you were to do it a legit way like running dungeons. I actually tested this by running the frostgorge champ route a month ago for abt 30 mins or less, and then did the math. My findings? i barely made even 1 gold. Not only is this method brain-dead and monotonous, it is also highly stupid because it leads to less gold/hr. I vote for anet to nerf the kitten outta this and bury it somewhere deep deep in the ground where no one will think to look, like they did for CoF P1 farm. makes everyone happy in the end, though noobs being noobs will still cry and find a way to make everyone around them miserable.

You somehow made less than one gold in 30 mins doing the FS champ farm and you are calling other people noobs?

Yes because doing hearts and DE’s is so hard and makes for really skilled, almost pro esport level players right! Perhaps you think picking up 50 kegs in order to fill a heart quest sets you up to be able to roflstomp in spvp or WvW?

Running the champ train or not, has zero relation to how generally skilled or (far, far more importantly) how fast someone is able to learn.

Stooperdale.3560:

“No it doesn’t take away from other content, at all.”

The evidence shows that the champ train does take people away from Orr and the Scarlet invasions. These were designed to be repeatable end game content but there is nobody there except for yet more champion farming. You could argue that there should be more rewards for completed invasions but actually the rewards that are out of balance, the champ trains, should fixed first rather than the game rebalanced around the broken rewards.

There is zero hard evidence to suggest that removing the two main champ trains from the game would suddenly see everyone doing the invasions.

If the train wasn’t running, I wouldn’t suddenly be doing the invasions, nor would a lot of the people I know.

The reason few go to Orr, outside of temple events and ore runs is because it had the crud nerfed out of it. And the invasions are at this point, naff.

Many of those who no longer bother with invasions and Orr are instead doing dungeons, world bosses, WvW and other activities. Not champ farming.

And no, the rewards for the champ trains are not at all out of balance, nor are the rewards “broken”. They provide an alternative (which is less lucrative) to those who are sick of running dungeons and flipping the TP.

If you nerf the trains, those people are not going to suddenly wander around doing open world content, they are going to go back to farming dungeons and those Scarlet invasions and Orr are going to be just as dead.

Woot what a result, we can all go back to CoF1 type speed farming, that will be fun!!

There is nothing at all wrong with the trains in this game at the moment, and in fact the removal/nerfing of them would do more harm then good. That people actually believe that removing/nerfing them would bring something positive to the game is mind boggling.

If you want to promote other content, you make it fun and rewarding, you don’t shaft what is already there in an effort to force people somewhere else… unless you are mental. Even then, people would still farm and frankly that is their perogative, some people really need to get over the fact that not everyone wants to play exactly how you want.

Stooperdale.3560:

The champ train isn’t “fine” in a design sense. It provides enjoyable play for some people, people who like mindlessly following a rotation, but it takes people away from the intended end game content and those premium open world events suffer from lack of numbers.

The core problem is that a raid sized group of people are taking on mobs intended for small groups. The lack of scaling of difficulty and reward means they can be mindlessly repeated for high rewards for time taken. Nobody would think it was fine to take 25 people through all the dungeons at rapid speed to collect maximum loot in the shortest time, so I’m not sure why people think it is good game play to do the same in the open world.

Yes it is “fine”.

No it doesn’t take away from other content, at all.

Comparing instanced dungeons with a player party hard cap to open world, non capped content? Well that analogy makes little sense. But you are aware that people do run dungeons to be as fast as possible and to maximise gold/loot gain right?

Repeating the world “mindlessly” in a not very well veiled attempt at belittling those that do the trains doesn’t give any gravitas to your argument.

sorudo.9054:

Lexandro.1456:

sorudo.9054:

it’s not about how they play but where, they should go to lvl 40+ places where they can’t ruin the beginner experience.

Wrong. You do not get to dictate where anyone plays. Neither do you get to dictate how they play.

And how exactly is it ruining the experience for new players? That’s a ludicrous argument already proven false by the fact that new players join in the train and have fun. Or don’t and have fun doing something else.

and how do you know that new players are having fun, any evidence to support that.
oh wait, you don’t….

if chasing a train is fun in your world then it’s probably a boring world you’re living in, i would like to play the game in a more fun and immersive way.
but if the train is more important then having fun then go ahead, make the game nothing more then grind and grind some more.
you say it your self, no one can dictate how you play, that you’re among the masses that will bring the game down is not your concern, you are to stubborn to realize the problem but i can’t dictate how you play no matter how much it’s a problem.

I take it you have personally asked every single new player to come into the game what they feel about the champ train. Given you are decrying the other posters lack of evidence. Feel free to cite all those players names and their verbatim opinion here so we can all have a look at it.

Having actually done the train and having had the chance to speak to newer players, none of them have thus far complained about it. Why would they? It comprises of a miniscule amount of content which in no way, shape, or form, prevents a new player from completing the map and moving on.

If they don’t want to do the train, they can do the content and move on, the train doesn’t prevent that. If they want to do the train, they have the option to do so. Truely awful….

The train is a positive thing for both new players and vets alike, it gives options and alternatives. Something only an anathema to the special snowflake crowd who want to see everything nerfed/removed which they personally don’t like to do.

“Oh noes, less than 1% of the content is something I don’t like! Instead of doing the other stuff I’m going to cry about the 1% and remove it from those who do enjoy it!!”

As for going on about “fun”, you are not the arbiter of what people can or cannot find fun. You realise that trains form less than a fraction of a percent of the pve content in this game right? You know you don’t have to do them right? Instead of moaning about it, perhaps get on with other stuff as opposed to trying and ruin stuff for other people.

Only a very small, vocal minority on these forums find champ trains “controversial”, simply because they hate the idea that not everyone else buys into their specific special snowflake idea of how the game should be played. It would be amusing had it not reached the tragic levels it has of late.

It’s funny, people go on about “elitism” and yet it is those who hide behind a warped version of the “play how I want” mantra which are most likely to try and get other people and their playstyles nerfed or otherwise shafted. It is not enough for them to play how they want, we all must play how they want.

As for your idea, my two thoughts are -

1. It wouldn’t work for a variety of fundamental reasons.

2. It would be a far better idea had you suggested keeping the current system in place and adding additional named, random mobs which can drop “cool stuffz”. i.e. a system which would allow those who enjoy the trains/coffers to continue enjoying what they do and to add an element in for those that want to wander around looking for named mobs which can potentially get them nice skins.

sorudo.9054:

Lexandro.1456:

sorudo.9054:

Lexandro.1456:

So no, champ trains do not need “fixing”, they are not broken. YOU are the problem for complaining about how other people play.

excuse me, are you saying everybody should just stop playing the way they want to play because the trains exist there?
they should scram, don’t tell me to move away and you have no right to dictate how i play my part of the game nor do any of the train hogs.

What? Did you read my post or just skim it? I said no-one has the right to tell anyone else how to play, when they are playing within the games rules and TOS.

That means champ farmers do not have a right to tell others to get out of the way, and AT THE SAME TIME it also means that people do not have a right to demand the devs destroy a part of the game that other players find fun just because a handfull of petty players object to it.

You don’t like how someone else is playing? Well frankly tough, its none of yours, mines or anyone else’s business how they play

it’s not about how they play but where, they should go to lvl 40+ places where they can’t ruin the beginner experience.

If anything, it vastly improves the new and lower level player experience.

If someone wants to avoid the train they can, very easily, and still complete the map and move on.

Once again the “play my way” crowd has warped into the “play my way or I constantly ask for you to be nerfed/removed” crowd.

Because levelling up via doing hearts and DE’s is really difficult and ends up churning out pro skill gamers, oh wait…

It’s reasonably safe to suggest that most of the people levelling up via the QD champ train are vets levelling alts. They are not doing it to develop their twitch skills and pro gamer abilities.

Some people are “bads” some are not. The fact that the QD champ train is in the game has zero relation to this fact.

Sorry OP, but your post just smacks of yet another “I don’t want to do it, so everyone who does do it must be punished/nerfed” post. Which is a little bit sad really.

It takes up a tiny fraction of one of several starter maps.

It is unlikely that new players are going to be targeting those champs anyway. You can clear the map and level just fine without getting involved in the train.

The train allows new players the opportunity to level, gain loot and gain karma.

It also means that they get to see there are actually other people in the game, as opposed to it being a wasteland, which it would be without the train and the Behe.

If anything, many will probably be disappointed that when they move out of the zone there are no other trains and pretty much no other people, until you hit the more “endgame” zones.

Instead of nerfing/getting rid of the QD champ train, they should be adding more into the game on other maps.

theory.3580:

Eviscerate has a pretty long windup animation. You failed to stunbreak and dodge during that time. Take responsibility for your own play, don’t look for excuses immediately.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Funny…I am on a Tier 9 server..or whatever the lowest Tier is, and I am in overflows every single time. I don’t think overflows are just a ‘high-population’ problem when it comes to popular content.

But, if so…then why not get there early before all those that did do just that? Someone obviously thought it was important enough to do so….

Get there early? On Deso I can get there over an hour before the Teq event and still be dumped onto OF.

Suggesting to people to turn up 2 hours before an event is indicative of the fact that something is wrong, something which the devs need to address.

Was this thread meant to parody the recent glut of “nerf warriorz” threads we are seeing of late OP?

It is getting to be an issue now on Deso. Having to get there well over an hour beforehand and still be shunted to overflow is taking the p%$^.

Either up the amount of people able to do the events (and up the server/tech capability to allow for that), or limit/stop people from guesting on high pop servers.

Im Mudbone.1437:

Fenrir.3609:

It doesn’t matter how many hours you have, it is how you have spent them. If I spent 10000 hours standing in LA then I wouldn’t be expecting a pre.

If you are actually bothering to go and run dungeons, kill champs and you don’t waste money on a load of crud. Then they are easy to get.

Hmmmm, I have done the underlined part of your statement ad-nauseum with 4500+ hrs in-game, 10,000+ AP and still no pre, if so easy then where’s mine.

So 4.5k hours and done champs, dungeons et al (as in run them for money, not kill one champ then that’s it for the day) and you still haven’t saved enough for a pre? Perhaps you have spent it all on something else.

Your AP is totally and utterly inconsequential. You would have next to no AP if you have just tried to maximise your gold potential over that time and instead would probably have most of the legendaries.

You can pull in 5-10g an hour from champs and/or dungeons. You have always been able to pull in a similar (often greater) amount via one method or another (when factoring in inflation), the old CS farm/s, lode farm, CoF1, SSC T6 farm et al. That is without factoring in what you could make playing the TP.

Put is this way, at a paltry 1g an hour you would have enough for the most expensive pre’s within 1000 hours or so (well a lot faster if truth be told given pres are probably rising faster than inflation). So you should have been able to grab at least four by now. And that is with 1g per hour, which is way lower than you can make.

It is easy to get hold of a pre, as long as you actively look to make and save the gold for it. Who knows, you may drop one in the process.

Simply trusting to fate, playing the toilet, spending all your gold on other stuff and simply expecting one because you’ve logged in for a few thousand hours and have muchos AP, well that’s probably not the best approach.

Valento.9852:

Fenrir.3609:

Why is it an “or” and not an “and” OP?

Yes I enjoy open world zerging in an mmo AND yes I enjoy instanced content and stuff like Liadri.

Not sure why it has to be one or the other.

Because it obligates us to have a massive coordinated zerg that’s never organized in order to correctly beat the content?

I don’t like zergballs, I’m all for instanced content which you have total control over since you set the limit on how many people can enter.

What? I’m not following your counter argument here at all.

Why exactly can’t a game have open world/zerg content and instanced content again? I’m not talking about merging the two, i’m talking about within the game in general.

If you don’t like zergs, you go and do the non zerg stuff. If you don’t like instances, you go and do the zergs. If you like both, you get to pick and choose.

A game can have dungeons and Liadri and also have massive zergathons within it as well. Having only one or the other as an option is far less ideal than having the option to access both.

It doesn’t matter how many hours you have, it is how you have spent them. If I spent 10000 hours standing in LA then I wouldn’t be expecting a pre.

If you are actually bothering to go and run dungeons, kill champs and you don’t waste money on a load of crud. Then they are easy to get.

Quiggle.4215:

Fenrir.3609:

1. Why is getting the people who do trains away from them a good idea? You find it mindless, er okay, go and do something else then. The “Stop doing what I don’t like” mentality in this game is bordering on the insane levels.

2. You would have no idea as to whether the mob you happened to be attacking was rarely killed or not (and no, it being in a pokey corner of the map doesn’t help, people know where they all are now pretty much). Spending my time, wandering around the same locations I have discovered/uncovered countless time before on countless toons and ending up with crud loot because some guy had been there a bit before is not my idea of a good time.

If you want to wander around hunting down mobs, you go for it. Not sure how it takes any strategy mind, given everyone knows exactly where they are. I’m also not sure why your desire to wander about should impact upon my game time.

3. It could be “trained”. There would be daily/weekly map/champ rotations in order to get the optimal loot. There would no doubt be spawn timers, people would watch them and wait. Some champs already are on event linked website timers.

You think people get annoyed when the FS trains gets ninja’d, well it would be a whole new level of rage with the proposed system.

There are a whopping two main trains in the game at the moment. Don’t like them? Go do the other 99.999% of the content and leave those who don’t mind them to get on with it.

In short, it’s good thinking outside the box but it is in inherently bad idea imo. There is no real reason to remove the few trains we have in the game.

You might have missed where I did not suggest nerfing any champion trains, I just like the idea of incentivizing people to roam the world, kill things or do events that are often forgotten about, and get some reward for it.

Nothing extreme, nothing to rock the boat that people currently play.

I was actually about to edit my post in case I came across as too much of an *$%, I certainly didn’t mean to be. Perhaps seeing all the general “nerf x, nerf the TP, nerf farms” threads made me knee jerk somewhat. Well that and my team just got knocked out of the cup! I apologise.

Having alternative styles of play (which also generate gold/loot) is ofc a good idea, as is trying to think outside the box.

So you suggest that there are no loot nerfs, but should a champ/mob go some time without getting nuked, then the % chance of better loot from it goes up.

It might work, but it suffers from the same flaws I mentioned above. Primarily that the system would be no doubt “farmed” as people used API timer websites et al and that, whether you intend it or no, to combat inflation it probaly would end up nerfing champ trains etc.

1. Why is getting the people who do trains away from them a good idea? You find it mindless, er okay, go and do something else then. The “Stop doing what I don’t like” mentality in this game is bordering on the insane levels.

2. You would have no idea as to whether the mob you happened to be attacking was rarely killed or not (and no, it being in a pokey corner of the map doesn’t help, people know where they all are now pretty much). Spending my time, wandering around the same locations I have discovered/uncovered countless time before on countless toons and ending up with crud loot because some guy had been there a bit before is not my idea of a good time.

If you want to wander around hunting down mobs, you go for it. Not sure how it takes any strategy mind, given everyone knows exactly where they are. I’m also not sure why your desire to wander about should impact upon my game time.

3. It could be “trained”. There would be daily/weekly map/champ rotations in order to get the optimal loot. There would no doubt be spawn timers, people would watch them and wait. Some champs already are on event linked website timers.

You think people get annoyed when the FS trains gets ninja’d, well it would be a whole new level of rage with the proposed system.

There are a whopping two main trains in the game at the moment. Don’t like them? Go do the other 99.999% of the content and leave those who don’t mind them to get on with it.

In short, it’s good thinking outside the box but it is in inherently bad idea imo. There is no real reason to remove the few trains we have in the game.

Obsidian.1328:

To be fair, Tyria doesn’t have cars, McDonalds, nor the internet. The walk or run everywhere. I’m betting the character creation options are fairly accurate.

Indeed, they don’t eat junk food and they don’t sit on their backsides watching TV all day. And no I’m not suggesting anyone who isn’t a size zero does that before anyone gets their knickers ina twist.

Instead they are out chopping down trees, mining ore and fighting dragons.

I.e. they don’t eat a load of junk and get lots of exercise. Is it any surprise they are all slim and/or muscular?

The same way you transmute any item.

Why is it an “or” and not an “and” OP?

Yes I enjoy open world zerging in an mmo AND yes I enjoy instanced content and stuff like Liadri.

Not sure why it has to be one or the other.

Zergs in an mmo, say it ain’t so!

Personally I found Liadri the most enjoyable, but Teq at least keeps you awake a bit more than the other world bosses.

It is highly unlikely they would let people change like they did with MF gear.

I’m not really too bothered tbh, but trying to grab Teq can be annoying, as often even if you get there an hour or more early you still get shunted to overflow.

Bagel.4598:

Fenrir.3609:

Bagel.4598:

PvP – Do what you want.
PvE – Zerker or don’t bother.

The end.

No.

Yes

No, you have it back to front.

PvP = competitive environment with a dominant condi/bunker meta. If you use any old random “play just how I want lol build” then you are going to get roflstomped or at the very least put yourself at a major disadvantage.

PvE = completely non competitive and for the main, faceroll easy. You can play pretty much any build you want and do the content. Infact most people engaged in pve don’t seem to spec full glass zerk. Where zerk does dominate is in a highly specific niche within the pve setting, namely min/max speed clear dungeon groups.

Think of the move to time gating recently. If any pre crafting does arrive, it will be time gated over such a large span of time and take so many mats that you would be better off just grinding the gold and buying it in the first place.

Manuhell.2759:

Imho, the real problem is that defensive stats have no impact on active defensive skills.
Thus a char geared with offensive stats still gets the same active mitigation of a defensive-geared char. And this mitigation often consists of a full negation of the damage received, or in a consistent reduction, thus making the passive mitigation even less important.
Some people may think that any gear other than zerk should be “training wheel” gear, but i disagree. All gear should be equally important, just doing different things for different roles.

Active defense is about dodging and timing abilities, not about stacking toughness, hence the whole “active” bit. You can facetank in this game if you want, if you can’t be bothered to buy into the whole actively moving about part though, you shouldn’t expect to be able to bring as much to the table as someone who can actually move and thus can bring more dps to the fore.

Other gear and roles do have a massive part to play in this game outside of being “training wheels”. From spvp, through WvW to open world pve and boss fights. In fact when you consider the game in total, zerk is far, far, far away from being the optimal meta.

That zerk can dominate in one small niche of the pve side of the game (speed running dungeons) is really not an issue at all. And in that tiny subset of the game, why shouldn’t non zerk gear been seen as training wheels? Is everyone here moaning about zerk so focused on speed running dungeons and setting records or something? I highly doubt it.

Do people really know what they are asking for here?
Is spvp a full glass zerk driven meta? No.
Is WvW a full glass zerk driven meta? No.
Is open world pve a full glass zerk driven meta? No.
Can you run dungeons in non zerk gear/groups? Yes.

So we have have the niche of dungeon speed runs seeing zerk as the optimal choice. And people are really crying about that, I mean really? Fine let’s nerf zerk and nerf people who dodge so full glass zerk isn’t a meta in any single aspect of the game anymore and everyone is running around in PVT or as condi/tank. Great diversity.

People really are blowing this completely out of proportion.

Ventrue.5731:

ElexOrieN.2130:

DPS = Warrior
Tank = Warrior/Guardian
Support = Guardian/Mesmer

We do have the trinity in this game it’s just that some people fail to realize it.

Agreed, we do have holy trinity

DPS = warrior (stuff dies fast)
TANK = warrior (stuff dies faster so you take less damage)
SUPPORT = warrior (whats better, healing for 2k? or making stuff die even faster so you don’t take 20k hit i nthe face)

In all seriousness though, trinity is a good thing cause it lets people define them selfs but this game just has broken mechanics and it would not work here.

I can find a role within a group and “define myself” just fine in a gameplay situation without the trinity.

The trinity is good for those that seem hopelessly lost without being pigeonholed and highly restricted.

Pretty much every build is viable in pve. Zerk is used in speed running dungeons (one of the few things it is really optimal for).

The latter forms a small minority of the overall pve playerbase and content and an even smaller one in terms of the overall game. Yet many are crying about them. Go figure.

haviz.1340:

There is no PvE meta, it’s dungeon meta and dungeons have been abandoned by anet for almost a year now so how exactly that’s a problem?

The meta in PvE content that is being developed is zerg, not zerk.

This, people seem to confuse highly niche, gear ping dungeon speed run groups with what is tantamount to the overarching pve model in this game. A massive mistake,

Even within the context of dungeons themselves, the vast majority are not running perfectly optimized zerk groups. The issue is merely people go into it with a preconceived bias (“I hate zerkers”) and as such, everytime they clock a zerk group in LFG they think the world is ending.

The meta in pve is far from full glass zerk when you look at the full picture. The meta in the game overall when you factor in WvW and spvp is again, far from full zerk. But let’s all moan about zerkers, they are doing dungeons faster than me when they are in an optimized group, the bstards!!!!

So what if people can use dps gear and provide support in the pve environ? Where is the issue exactly? Those other gear sets are not invalidated all of a sudden. If you are not good enough to go full glass, you use them. If you want to do more open world stuff they are more optimal, if you want to WvW or spvp they are more optimal and if you want to run dungeons they are still more than viable.

“I want to wear full clerics on my guard and it is unfair that that other guard in zerk can do more damage than me!”. It doesn’t seem to be a case of “play how I want” more a case of “I must be allowed to play how I want and no other option is allowed to be more optimal”. Which is a weird sentiment.

Adam Of Awesome.7802:

FOR ALL THE FANBOYS CRYING THAT A TRINITY IS BAD… All I have to say to destroy your poorly conceived argument of “LF Tank/Healer” and that is

LFG – Zerker gear only… oh and while you’re at it, only come with a warrior, guardian or mesmer… (-_-) You people never think.

This games combat system is severely broken and you’d have to be a complete moron to think otherwise. Atleast with roles you know what your job is, you depend on other people more and in turn they depend on you. The mechanics on boss fights including world bosses and even WvWvW would be a lot better. There is just more strategy with that system.

What do we honestly have right now? Seriously, think about it. If you have the slightest deduction capability you would answer “Everyone in the game is a DPS with minor support built into their class” that is it…

Now I understand a lot of you like being self-dependent but when everyone is self dependent… where is the teamwork? I didn’t think so.

NO CLASS can tank like other MMO’s.
NO CLASS can heal enough to be called a healer.

Even the support in this game is so bad almost NO ONE runs support. Why? Because DPS is the best support you can bring, kill the enemies before they kill you. Kill an enemy and it’ll rez your downed ally… a Full Zerker Warrior/Guardian/mesmer bring basically just as much support as even a full support based build.

1. The zerk group thing is highly specific for speed running. You can and amazingly enough people do, run dungeons without a full glass zerk group comp. Moreover if you moved to a trinity model, you would still have an ideal group comp which speed runners would use and you would still get such ping groups in LFG.

Those zerk groups are not needed to complete the content, switch to the trinity model though and we will see the same old “LFG healer” as before in the dark days.

2. You can provide support on your guardian whether you are in zerker armour or not. The idea is to be able to provide said support and migrate to more dps orientated armour as you actually learn to dodge.

Given your support comes from skills and abilities, why in the name of God do people have an issue with being able to still provide supprt and at the same time increase their damage as they actually learn to play the game? Do they think facetanking is some uberskill of something?

“omg I can do damage and support at the same time, what is this blasphemy, you must nerf damage gear so I can sit there and do fk all damage and facetank. That is the only way support is allowed to work!!!”

3. Why the heck would someone buy a game with no hard trinity and with an active defense system and then proceed to cry about no hard trinity and it having an active defense system?

This also isn’t the first game without a trinity btw. Others are far more open and use an open skill based approach. The issue is not the lack of trinity, the issue is people who want to play WoW and have a trinity have come into a game without one and are now crying about it.

As to what would happen if it shifted to the trinity, well a lot of people would leave is what would happen.

Still a no.

This isn’t aimed at you specifically, but why are people so desperate to facetank in pve exactly?

No.

If you have lag issues, I empathise but that’s your issue. I wouldn’t buy an FPS and then ask for enforced tab targeting because I happened to be playing on a crud laptop.