Guild Wars 2

If anyone thinks it’s just about money and that that is something that drives people’s passion and creativity then they are sorely mistaken.

Isn’t it people who throw money around (the whales) who sort of funded the game over the last few years? If anything, they made at least some of game possible for you to play without paying.
If you loved playing Guild Wars 2 for these years then 50 or 100 euro is completely nothing for an MMO. Any subscription MMO makes you pay twice that a year. Just to play it.

It’s in everyone’s right to buy the expansion or to not buy it. And it’s very likely that if you just now loved walking through the new Lion’s Arch, that that was possible because someone threw money “mindlessly” at ArenaNet. It’s like having a ticket to the amusement park for free because someone else paid twice.

It’s not much difference than an MMO going free to play.

It’s always cost alot more at the start than after a few years.
If anything. If you bought gw2 for the full price, you paid for the new players as well. Gem buyers paid for them.

That they offer the base game for free just means that all those years of headstart have become increasingly worth more that the only way to not royally screw new players over is to give the game for free.

Stuff goes on sale. Get used to it.

MiniEquine.6014:

It’s been added:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pre-purchase-community-address/

Oopsie. Thanks xD
Not just that, even. They also added information about future business plans.

Don’t you guys see the irony though? Sales and sale offers happen as well. “That’s life it happens.” can be said for that case all the same.

While I do feel that Arenanet does not seem to particularly market towards existing players, it’s in their right to try and offer an fairly older game at a much cheaper price in order to get more customers. You don’t get loads of complaints when there’s games on steam for sale for a nickle and a dime while you may have paid the full $60.

The problem right now I would say it seems to be more of an investment for future content and a basis for future content. But even an investor would demand more information on future releases. I would say that a character slot shouldn’t even be added to compensate veteran players, but it would benefit the overall offer for everyone.

And really. A bought title is pretty much no incentive to preorder.

Dondarrion.2748:

The pre-purchase for GW2 was the same; announced back April 10 with no release date confirmed until mid-June or something… same for the number of features, but ofc it was the core game and we already knew a lot more and that it was worth it… subjectively speaking.

Ofc, HoT will be worth $50 for the expansion and all the work in it covering the time this game needs to develop between now and the next xpac (after LS3 or LS4)…

However – as a veteran I feel disappointed that Anet now kind of expect us to grind out another 10 USD or in-game gold worth the same just to get an extra character slot to play a central feature of HoT.

Yes, we have the same amount of char slots as new players getting the game now, but what does Anet expect… that its 3-year veterans haven’t played their game all this time? They served up a core game with 5 slots and 8 professions, and most have filled their 5 slots by now.

So… new class Revenant is released and now there’s no additional slot to play it. A new player can make 5 Revenants if they want, but most veterans will have no slot to readily play it. They essentially must pay $60 USD to do so, whereas new players pay $50.

“Just grind out the gold, it’s not a big thing” -> well, for the sake of that argument, no it’s only grinding in-game, but at the current exchange rate it’s in the vicinity of 100 gold for 800 gems. Does a new player have to spend 100 gold on that? Why is the veteran player base expected to be at this disadvantage.

And having a headstart since HoT announcement to get the gold for that char slot doesn’t cut it; I still am being unfavored by Anet who thinks it’s ok that I should pay for that slot while new players get 5 free slots.

I love it that new players get the core game for free, what a grand gesture!

It’s just a pity Anet don’t pay ANY respect to its veterans who have been through thick and thin with them over the past 3 years.

So disappointing that without this char slot added to the standard edition, I’m about to pack my things.

I think new players are still on the lower end of the deal though. There’s a lot they have missed out as wel as needing to pay for things that were free otherwise. Gem conversion used to be really low. I think I bought most my characterslots for like 2 gold early on for example.

In the end the price offer for new players is nothing more than a sale. When certain titles go free to play. Some people have paid the full retail price for those as well. And usually the time things go free to play is barely a year after.

Not to mention that if you played for such a long time without ever buying anything from the gemstore then this “through thick and thin” really doesn’t mean all that much.

But yes. It is indeed mostly disappointing that people who have stuck with the game are mostly seemingly disregarded while new players are thrown all the goodies.
Then again. The marketing department of arenanet is very lacking. This all seems like last minute ideas and very little planning has been done. It doesn’t even seem they thought about it. Its marketing a child would do it imo. It’s just:
1. Base expansion price.
2. Above plus the extra stuff some people always want
3. Above plus something big we don’t have so let’s just do gems for seemingly half the price.
Oh yeah we need something for the people who preorder. Let’s do something simple. kitten a title.
Oh yeah. New player’s will not come with the expansion price that high. So do add the base game. Existing players? Meh they buy it anyway. A title is enough incentive to preorder.

Straylight.7529:

NecroN.8306:

Yet again this is pure speculation. You have ZERO proof of any of this. You’re voicing your opinion on to others.

Straylight.7529 Your only purpose here is to derail this thread. Go troll somewhere else and stick to facts.

I don’t have statistical proof nor is it necessary. It’s speculation based on reason and logic. It’s simply absurd to think that the vocal minority on this forum who’s upset about the preorder represents the majority. Yet that is exactly how (many of) the people act when they complain towards Arenanet. And in quite a rude fashion I might add.

Of course I’m voicing my opinion. It’s the only thing I can do here. I was simply trying to explain to Pretty Pixie.8603 (about a page or two ago) why you don’t need statistical evidence to show that the forum-complainers are not the majority. You can do that with reason and logic (which I applied in my 4-step process). You and others obviously don’t agree and I simply responded to your posts. If you don’t want to talk to me anymore, simply stop talking to me.

At least you call it speculation yourself. Then again the relevance of there being a majority or minority is quite pointless. All that matters is the amount significant enough and/or do some of their arguments hold any water.

Celtic Lady.3729:

FrizzFreston.5290:

You mean. New players get the expansion + core for 90 dollars (-40 is still 50). Because they would at least need to get 4 character slots to get access to all professions. You only start with 5.

Well, only the ones that want to play 1 of everything. Not everyone would.

Then you would also need to drop the argument that the expansion is 50 +10.

Ricky.4706:

actually 39.99 on amazon.com from ncsoft’s page.

so new players get expansion for 10 dollars, ‘old’ players get the expansion only for 50 dollars and have to spend 10 dollars extra for one slot.

No no.

You mean. New players get the expansion + core for 90 dollars (-40 is still 50). Because they would at least need to get 4 character slots to get access to all professions. You only start with 5.

Not to forget the 10-20 dollars or so for living world season 2

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

Straylight.7529:

Baldrick.8967:

Here’s some logic:

The vast majority of players are unhappy about the expansion.

If they were exstatic about it, people would be buying it in droves, towns would be full of happy people spouting on about it, and forums and social media would be full of people singing it’s praises.

-snip-

No, I’m sorry but your post already falls apart right there. The vast majority of people are indifferent/happy about the expansion/game. There are hundreds of thousands of GW2 players you never hear of. They never post on the forum. They never complain and they never voice their opinion. Those are all typical behavioral patterns for indifferent or happy people.

So, all of the unhappy people I know are really just indifferent?

…or they just don’t bother posting on forums. Perhaps because they’d rather not have to see people telling them they’re “feeling wrong”. Instead they just vote with their wallet. The vote that really matters to Anet.

No, the unhappy people are unhappy and the indifferent people are indifferent. It just happens that the few unhappy people you know pale in comparison to the number of indifferent+happy people out there.

Sure, there will be people who’re unhappy and simply vote with their wallet. But you forget that people who don’t complain are more likely to belong to the happy+indifferent group opposed to the unhappy group. Most people are not complaining that means most people are indifferent or happy.

Im glad that you have all the statistical information in hand.

The arguments obviously lose value by stating how many of the people are standing behind them. Because that’s how democracy works. The majority is always more right than the minority.

(Yes that was sarcasm)

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

IndigoSundown.5419:

I cannot agree with this point. Maybe “full games” are $50 where you come from. Where I live, they’re $60.

HOT does not contain a free extra character slot, so most players will be forced to buy that as well. Character slots are $10, which brings the total price of the expansion to a neat round number of…. $60.

That means that the core game.. even offered for free. Is at the very least $30.

Thanks for solving that argument.

While I definitely agree on cross gamemode missions. Im not sure catering to really tiny guilds is a thing that would be healthy for the game. At least regarding the bigger goals for a guild anyway.

Plus. As always. There are ways around this problem either way. It just takes organisation. Then again that would require some effort.
Also 5 or 6 is the minimum possible for most missions. And with unlimited tries. It should be alot easier to find a way of succeeding. I wouldn’t say its super hard either if you know what to do.

Knighthonor.4061:

Dinks.2478:

Knighthonor.4061:

Dinks.2478:

This is a non-issue. Its a guild decision. If you don’t like the guilds decision leave it and find one that has what you want. Its like the whole 100% rep guild situation. Don’t like that policy? Leave the guild. Pretty simple if you ask me.

Well its a feature that most of us wont be able to try. Thats the point. Its a major feature but not being able to use it will be a killing blow. Like a HoT without a slot for Revenant. ..

Not at all similar. You have to pay an extra $10 for character slot to play Revenant. Guilds are free to make, don’t like the way your guild handles Guild Halls? Make your own and do it how you want. Don’t complain later tho when your hall is a giant mess of random crap everywhere. You’re the one that wanted everybody and their mothers uncles dogs previous owner to be able to decorate.

---

> My Point

---

> you

my point went over your head pal. This not just about me but others as well. I dont want others in a similar situation to miss out on features like this due to poor game design decision.

Best to learn from other developers experience.

It’s poor design for a screwdriver to not be the optimal tool to hammer nails with.

Your logic has been noted.

They are guild halls. Of course you would need to be in the right guild or make some sort of organisation towards multiple personal guild halls.
To expect otherwise is foolish. If it’s really a thing that you care about. Then you need to invest in a guild you’re comfortable with. Make friends… socialise.. become that person people like playing with. I don’t think that is too hard

I personally never liked “duster” guilds who just recruit randomly and as much as possible. Their leaders generally just care about their own goals rather than the interests of their individual members. They have very little standards to who joins them imo as long as they are big, they are happy.

Rhanoa.3960:

Talk about the generosity only to be loathed by so much ungratefulness.

I am sure ANet was anticipating the obvious outcry Blizzard had when they announced their plan.

Anyone who have read the forums could have seen this coming. It’s like all of ArenaNets updates. While they were all free, they weren’t all met with much gratefulness just because they were free. People demanded content to meet their standards.

Now with an added pricetag, people become even more critical than they have been before. Just imagine, that all of living story has been free and people complained LOADS about that. Now you have somewhat the same prospect, except they added a pricetag. Of course you get loads of complaints about that as well. Not to mention the great amount of complaints on this forum of there even BEING a paid expansion at all!

Then again, You’re a person who calls people who paid for their gems not very smart. They basically sustained the game and supported the game. It’s not very smart to just dismiss that. You can’t say the gemstore as a whole was optional for ArenaNet. They NEEDED to make money on that. Some people paid nothing, others paid thousands. It’s not just generosity, it’s also a business plan to cash in money from the gemstore sales.

That said, it does feel like the expansion price feels sorts of a long overdue subscription payment, rather than paying for content you actually get. Especially due to the nature of the expansion being “half free” because of updates to existing systems.

You’re basically supporting the future development of the game, rather than buying a big content update. So people react like: “I wasn’t really playing that much anymore and was basically waiting for a load more content to come out. This expansion is supposed to be that. But it’s mostly features instead. I think I’ll wait until they reveal and give alot more maps to play in rather than to re-do stuff again and again.”

aggelos r.5387:

JUN YANG.4328:

huge?? let me ask you Hot bigger then Nightfall and Faction??? ask yourself

i played Nightfall and Faction but not HOT you have play HOT so you can compare?
And something for the other friend yes it huge not hugh just forgive me but my main language is not english.

You could say that with factions and nightfall you at least had some sorting of clue of what you are buying though. And with the way Arenanet changes every single aspect of the game, it is a bit of a gamble on what you actually are paying for. Especially for a preorder, you would expect some sort of preorder bonus. But there is none. Except for new players or when you pay more. Where the only deal that is actually a deal is when you throw alot of money over the counter.

Though I’m sure to buy one of the versions. I do feel like they are trying to cash in more than they are keen on sweetening the deal. Hence I really don’t feel they’re selling it very well.

I think it’s safe to say that the title of this thread could be changed to: “A veteran player here to say: Thank you ANet! And the rest of you are all whining entitled brats!”

KPOBb.8476:

I don’t get the Veteran entitlement position.

Arenanet has done alot more to get more players in, including 75% off the main game for several times, they changed the whole level progression to “ease in players better” (while to me the original unique feel is replaced with generic MMO feeling and GW2 lost parts of it’s original pull) and now they add in the game in for free so new players don’t even have to buy the main game.

It kind of feels like, “You’re an existing player? Then we don’t need to do anything for you, cause we already have parts of your money and if you want to keep playing, give us more money!”

It seems to me it’s like the big turn off for the buy to play model this way. In order to make money, you need new buyers. (although with an expansion coming I don’t really understand why they only market especially more to new players by throwing in the whole game (minus living story I assume) while basically no special deals for existing players. (other than throw alot of money at them)

It’s like they expect you to buy it anyway and you don’t need any more incentive. Instead of it being veteran entitlement I would rather say it’s the new player preferential treatment which makes people feel left out.

Other than that, it doesn’t seem the expansion currently is selling itself very well. The guild hall feature a few new maps and a profession + specialisations sounds more like a 30 euro expansion. 50 euro is what you pay for a full game these days. It’s what some of us paid for the full Guild Wars 2 game. And if you compare it to that, if you compare the value of the full game (which now seems carelessly tossed in as if it’s something that has no value anymore, gives a great sign like that to existing players as well. Gee guys.) to the expansion you would at least expect the same amount of value from the expansion, which up until now it doesn’t even have.

Arguments that it’s in line with other expansions on other games, feels off by a mile, We’re not interested in expansion in another game, nor are we familiar with what that expansion is offering, or whether that is even worth or not.

Also its pointless saying that you get stuff after or before the expansion is also included. When buying the expansion, you buy the expansion, not stuff that “might” hypothetically come after, nor stuff that has come before for free. As a customer you don’t go to a shop in order to pay for all previous and future bananas in one go because the shopkeeper doesn’t have it’s economic plan in order. And if so, at least it should be advertised as such. It should be advertised that something like raids or other rumours floating on this forum belong to the expansion package but will come after. But it’s likely not, because ArenaNet has reputation that “it comes after” might as well mean 6 to 2 years after if not with the next expansion (*cough*guildhalls*cough*) And “it’s not ready so we don’t talk about it”- policy kind of limits them about saying anything about it.

All in all, it’s way too early to say it’s worth the price of course, but it just feels completely off at this point.

The response in Dry Top is very impersonal as opposed to a heart task. Also it repeats itself. I don’t think they are comparable at all. It would be a mapwide hourly repeated christmas list vs your character onetime shoppinglist.

I do think that those adventures are meant to fill that gap somewhat though.

I don’t think the heart tasks were only just a way of letting people adjust to the event system like many of you are claiming. Mainly because there is very little in the way of progression from hearttasks moving towards just events. In Orr they are merely removed and events become the only thing to do. There’s no to little events going to actually take over some of the more mundane tasks.

The bigger plus of the hearttasks for me was that they decorated the world with a daily life which you could help out with for a tiny reward. As such I didn’t always really did them but to me it was a great source of immersion. This immersion is mostly lost with any additional maps, and while I really don’t care if there’s an event covering them or a hearttask in order to complete it. I felt it was way more immersive and interactive rather than there being only static NPCs standing around making me feel like they at best wax museum props with a little sign saying their dialogue. That letter with each completed heart felt great the first time I got them.

If anything Silverwastes with its continuous event system has taken over the heart tasks with the fairly mundane tasks while trying to add an overarching cause. I find Verdant Brink to be fairly in the middle with this.The repitition of the daytime events isn’t that bad because they are more akin to the high quality event chains. (Though I worry that just those will still make the world feel fairly empty if it’s just those events.) And in the night the events disappoint because they don’t feel more than doing glorified hearttasks for 45 long minutes.

All in all I really wouldn’t mind there to be some tasks to help out the NPCs in certain appropriateareas on a loop for a tiny reward if need be. More as a decoration / immersion tool rather than anything else. That or some events that go beyond the scope of the system that is in place now. That were for me the strong points in previous maps. They changed things up.

On a more side note: I feel like that the event system in Guild Wars 2 is really great, but they have yet to unlock their full potential. There have been many showcases of tools that could change things up regarding events, but have been left in the dirt in the sake of player expectation or playstyle. It’s become a “All gameplay elements follow the same style” principle. I wish to see something more out of the box.

lordkrall.7241:

CoRtex.2157:

GW1 : Alot of choice,, alot of fun,, pretty balanced game
GW2 : Not much choice,, meta game,, totally unbalanced

Although,, people say with less skills you have more balance… Well.. from what i have seen… GW2 is the most unbalanced game i’ve ever seen. Not even joking.

EDIT: It’s not the amount of skills that make gw2 so unbalanced. It’s more because there are no roles in gw2. Everyone does the same thing,, only different. But only 1 does it the best (with a few exceptions in certain situations)

Did you ever actually play GW1?

Even years after release the game was far from balanced.
GW2 is MUCH more balanced in comparison.

There were very little actual choices in GW1. Either you played the going meta-build or you basically didn’t play. No one would take anyone that didn’t play meta. Simple as that.

You just needed to be in the right guild if you wanted to play outside the meta. Anyone who only played meta then are the people who just zerg now in my opinion. There were many ways to play GW1. Most didn’t because most builds weren’t optimal fast and easy to execute. Just like zerging and zerker really.

Since you control both accounts you could just send the money when you need it. Or make the second account more able to do things. Like spending the money on the second account food trays instead. (Unless I misunderstood you’re using both to farm right?) Using only one account to handle everything seems hardly efficient.

And it’s not messy if you do it right. Really.

While I agree it’s one of those upgrades to make it easier for people (and seems to be one of those updates again). There always have been two sides of a build. The execution of a build is still the more decisive factor. You can see that simply by how many actual combinations are used with success.

Astralporing.1957:

FrizzFreston.5290:

If this makes people play around more with and pick different builds then that would be a good thing.

It seems to be aimed at doing exactly opposite – limit classes to only 2-3 sensible builds. In quite a number of cases the trait balance is still so bad that picking one option over the others is a no-brainer. Others have a must-take traitlines. There’s also a much bigger interdependence of traits, skills (not only utilities, but now also heal and elite) and weapons.
Most people will not end up playing with builds even if they did so in the current system – they will be locked into one build, or two-three alternates they will use depending on the situation and/or gamemode.
It may be even worse when we consider the potential impact of elite specs.

Why would it be aimed to do the exact opposite? That is just not true, but I will agree that Arenanet misses from occasion to occasion. (Hence I said if)

I do agree there’s quite a few traits that you simply pick because they enhance a specific set of skills. But you don’t have stats on traitlines anymore and you will have several traits left to pick after you picked those.

But yeah, I mostly meant that from a pure systemetical aspect a more accessable system would lead to more playing around with it. There’s not the huge amount of choices to make anymore. That said, I rather would have seen a total rework on the traits so that every choice is indeed meaningful. Not all of the current traits are worth taking still indeed as you saif and I can only hope they adjust the lesser options so that the choice is more balanced.
So far we have seen the preliminary traits but I thought they said that they aren’t done balancing them yet.

But yeah I do agree about the balance they currently put forward.

It’s definitely a step away from GW1 which would let people play around with their skillsset alot more.

Its really makes the system more streamlined and less about the little differences which sometimes didn’t matter that much. It will become alot easier to switch traits and combine them.

At least they tried to incorporate the current builds by trying to fit in as many buildstyles as they could. While taking out some specific styles while putting in others.
I think that on a personal level, these changes can either be good or bad. But the majority of players will have an easier time to change and make builds which might make it more fun to play with.
I think accessibility and build quality go a long way for the games health, even though we might lose a few options to explore and experiment with. If this makes people play around more with and pick different builds then that would be a good thing.

Of course that all remains to be seen.

I would say that they meant that because they merged certain traits together there are more options of actually combining different traits effects that you couldn’t before while mostly retaining all the previous options.

It ideally would mean that every trait you pick has a bigger impact on your build, making every trait alot more powerful or build changing.

That said, the current system has alot more space for tiny differences between builds. although I’m pretty sure most people mostly picked the same combinations for every class since those options are more easier to play with. So in the end it seems to me that what they meant with creating more diversity is actually meant with regards to the meta.

“Absolute” diversity in builds, as in possible combinations is alot less and the new system is (overly) simplified.

The Primary.6371:

Who typed that it was my point of view?
Why would I type a non statement if I don’t care since it’s not from my point of view?
Why are the majority of your statements designed to shoot down statements manufactured to illuminate your hypocritical nature?
Why are you also constantly becoming confused and therefore making the wrong assumptions?
And when will the next “wall of text” appear that provides the same flavour as the previous?

You tell me. Clearly you have me at an advantage with all your experience.

The Primary.6371:

FrizzFreston.5290:

The Primary.6371:

Rin.1046:

The Primary.6371:

Ironic how anet have made an expansion something to dread rather than expect within a positive manner.

Speak for yourself. I have very positive feelings about these changes.

I type for years of experience playing gw1 and gw2, within both pve and pvp.

If you can type for the same deal, you still will be ignorant.

Erm, what he meant was that he isn’t dreading the changes. This isn’t a matter of how much experience one has, but an opinion. That you’re dreading the changes hasn’t got to do anything with experience, some people welcome changes with open arms, open mind.

In all my years that I played GW1 and GW2, I sort of expect them to change everything they can possibly change. I never dreaded any of the changes either way.

Then you will love being locked into three trait lines.

By the way, was laughable to see you try to break apart the statements but this “isn’t a matter of how much experience one has, but an opinion” and this “That you’re dreading the changes hasn’t got to do anything with experience”.

Opinions are shaped by experience, which makes it matter.

Assuming that I care for the expansion at all shows off your ignorance and tendency to jump to conclusions (which is adorable). Knowing anets capabilities and faults that they have been demonstrated in the past, showcases a glimpse into possible outcomes. Seeing what they have so far completed or brain stormed, doesn’t yield to a positive atmosphere. You would just need to read the other posts within this forum to understand.

Though that was a different team in gw1 and anet have gone through a change over period in terms of staff. Something to keep in mind which makes you look towards current events during these 2 years. Could go “in depth” but that would be a waste of time.

Change is good for a game but if the actually developers, management and organisation itself choose to continue to go on a path that the majority don’t have confidence in without relaying their thoughts about the future change to the public’s build options and play style, don’t get confused when you think about it (that’s if you would bother to think about it).

So you believe that it is a the majority of opinions (which you didn’t even bother to prove) meaning that there are people who have different opinions regarding this issue.

I didn’t assume anything about your relation to the game other than you dreading anything arenanet changes. Ofcourse it would be a non-statement saying you don’t actually care. Since it would mean theres people who don’t care as well as others who do like the changes.

My point was just that not everyone will simply agree because you “have experience”. It is all from your viewpoint at best anyway. Hence that speaking for yourself would be probably a better idea than to randomly draw conclusions based on nothing about what everyone is feeling about these changes.

The Primary.6371:

Rin.1046:

The Primary.6371:

Ironic how anet have made an expansion something to dread rather than expect within a positive manner.

Speak for yourself. I have very positive feelings about these changes.

I type for years of experience playing gw1 and gw2, within both pve and pvp.

If you can type for the same deal, you still will be ignorant.

Erm, what he meant was that he isn’t dreading the changes. This isn’t a matter of how much experience one has, but an opinion. That you’re dreading the changes hasn’t got to do anything with experience, some people welcome changes with open arms, open mind.

In all my years that I played GW1 and GW2, I sort of expect them to change everything they can possibly change. I never dreaded any of the changes either way.

Delgan.8619:

Why rant over something you don’t even know as yet how it will play out.

My guess they won’t make anyone that already has traits open make a repeat payment, so likely many players will end up with 400 hero points and all skills (only spending hero points on what they don’t already have).

Which means you’re likely going to end up with a huge pool of hero points that you can trade in for sellable items.

WIN-WIN (besides from tempory market crash).

People don’t trust ArenaNet to do it right. And ArenaNet hasn’t said anything to confirm either way, which makes people antsy. I think it’s very logical.

Of course there are solutions to these problems, and it’s very possible it’s all good. But otherwise, there’s not alot to go on, and alot of people feel cheated in advance.

They are changing the basic foundation of the game again, and it already feels like they don’t seem to regard the players that have been playing for years. The NPE was exactly the same feeling. Older players usually seem to get screwed over to implement new systems.

Not if there is a Hero point cap of 400 + # skill challenges.
That way excess skill challenges could just start to refund spend skillpoints.

Of course, everything that was unlocked should stay unlocked, otherwise people might spend the extra points in the new elite specialisation track. It should be easily calculated how many hero points each unlocked trait would cost in the new system.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Phys:

Just to be clear:
I don’t really have a horse in this race, I’m basing my satisfaction of the system on multiple factors.

It’s just that reading people examine choices on the technical numberslevel feels a bit like watching somebody struggle to dig a well two feet away from a river. It’s mean to question the effort….but hard not to say something.

I did that mainly for fun. Also it gives an insight into how much it has been simplified. The main cause of less amount of combinations is because you can’t pick multiple early traits and because you have a very strict set of traits.

While all the functionality is more or less still possible, the different combinations are smooched out and made one color. Instead of picking light red, dark red, blood red and normal red you just pick red. Which for most people doesn’t matter a great deal as red is red to most. While others want to create their own little details to their build.

From a creative standpoint the new system limits creative combining/building while from a practical standpoint the new system is alot better. So while all or rather, most builds are still possible, alot of the fun of making an unique build with ever so slight differences is not possible anymore which makes them not happy with this system. Other people see new possibilities and are more excited as there’s a few new builds in this system because of updated functionality of some traits and removal of certain types of traits (like the clone condi ones) which gotten a full redo on another functionality.

3 grandmaster trait combinations could also be excited as well.

MiniEquine.6014:

SEE THE POST BELOW

I know math isn’t subjective. I do now acknowledge that my previous method for calculating the old trait lines was incorrect. After reviewing my work (and sleeping on it a bit :P ) I have reorganized my calculations and found the number of combinations.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H9KAc7ghxmrxsq0bkWNALddKMkETmdQ1dW-eS7Xa8Hc/edit?usp=sharing

This should be the correct representation of the old values, so long as the revised methods I used still hold water. Sheet 1 will show how I found the different, non-repeating trait combinations for each tier (please feel free to see if this is accurate, but I did double-check this). That means for a filled line there are 233 unique combinations, a master-filled line there are 39 combinations, and for an adept-filled tier there are 6 combinations. For each trait line, the number of trait combinations are multiplied together in addition to the possible trait line combinations. [s] It seems that 5/5/4 yields the most results at over 21,000,000 combinations by itself.

80,399,886 [/s] (Seed Edit 2) 59,638,286 different combinations in total. The only thing this does not consider is swapping lines to get different minor traits for the odd-number-filled lines, but at this point I think it can get a bit excessive to bother factoring that in (especially since it does not add that many more combinations, in the long run).

Let me know what you think, or if you have anything to add.

Edit:
Sheet 1 is the non-repeating combinations sheets
Sheet 2 is the calculations sheet

Edit2: I found an error where I accidentally had 5/5/4 with the adept lines all filled. This was incorrect and has been revised, significantly reducing the number of combinations down to 59 million

Edit3: I can’t get strikethrough to work

Edit4: There are some errors I’m fixing with it, but I have found them.

Nice xD writing them out is indeed always better.
I also see which ones I actually missed with my 188. I missed the case of adept adept grandmaster. Which is another 45. kitten . (6 adept #1 * 5 adept #2 / 2 permutations in a combination of two things) * 4 grandmaster… 188+45 is indeed 233.

All is good now xD

They didn’t remove that many traits they merged them together. At least make a analogy that preserves most of the traits effects while also limitting the variance. Some became baseline, some were merged together and some were removed. So if anything. You could buy a packet of one colored jellybeans. You always picked a special combinatiin of sachels. Then they decided to make mixed bags of jellybeans who always had a few standard jellybean colours. Which merged all similar tasting beans together in one sachel and outright removed some tastes in order to bring out new and never seen before tastes.

MiniEquine.6014:

FrizzFreston.5290:

MiniEquine.6014:

For a current 6/6/2 combination, my numbers are correct. If you do the math out like I explained above, it will make sense.

Your numbers for the “now” part are still incorrect. You simply added two amounts of combinations together without taking into account of all the different combinations of those combinations. (Oh dear) You did exactly the same thing for the new system (27*27*27) but no (594 *594) )

Not to mention that the 6 * 9 * 11 part is incorrect as well as it doesn’t take into account that it doesnt matter what order you pick the adept or master work traits in. (IE.: I, III, IV is the same as IV, III, I )

So no, that number is not correct at all.

A couple of things. First, please don’t use condescending “oh dears”. Explain your math or don’t bother. Now, onto the meat.

I took a look at the current system and, to my surprise, found that certain combinations produced far greater results in terms of number. For example, 6/4/2/2 produced a whopping 15,396,480 different combinations (nearly half of all possible). In all, there were 32,965,584 different combinations with the current system, but you’re right, this does not factor in repeat traits combinations but in a different order. For a filled line of traits in the current system, I have found 233 unique combinations. I used the following:

S(i=1 to 6 [i] (S(j=i+1 to 10 [j](S(k=i+2 to 13 [k])))) = # of combinations

That’s just a rough formula I used that starts at the lowest combination of traits (1,2,3) and works its way to the top with #1 (up to 6) less than #2 (up to 10) less than #3 (up to 13).

However, I did not “simply add two amounts” together. Probability is multiplicative, so I’m not sure where you thought I did that.

I don’t know where you got 594*594 from. The 27^3 is correct for the number of trait combinations in any three trait lines. If you think it’s not, please show your work. I already showed mine up above, and I’m not the only one coming to these numbers.

Edit: this forum does not like Sigma.

I already explained it. Everyone skipped over it I think. You need to reread your own posts really as it said *2 traitlines. I didn’t make it up or something. I even retyped those numbers to see if that’s how you got that specific 200k number and it did, which is likely to be more than others did. That it does give that number doesn’t mean it’s right though.. I also don’t care if other people came to the same. Math isnt a matter of who has the most people doing it their way.
That said I did at least say that my method could be just as wrong.

The 594 = 6 * 9 * 11 you did. 27 ^3 is because of 3 traitlines. Then 594*594 or 594^2 is when you have two traitlines completely full. Although I got 188 instead of that 594. Explanation of that is in my earlier posts. Feel free to check it out and say it’s wrong if it is.

Nike.2631:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Erm, how did you get 418?

There are 6 master traits, not 4.

Upon review I did overcount by 20 (398 rather than 418). Thanks for making me stare at it more closely .

Really? There’s only 13 traits in a line. 3 are grandmaster. 6 are adept. :p I had to look on wiki myself too though.

MiniEquine.6014:

For a current 6/6/2 combination, my numbers are correct. If you do the math out like I explained above, it will make sense.

Your numbers for the “now” part are still incorrect. You simply added two amounts of combinations together without taking into account of all the different combinations of those combinations. (Oh dear) You did exactly the same thing for the new system (27*27*27) but no (594 *594) )

Not to mention that the 6 * 9 * 11 part is incorrect as well as it doesn’t take into account that it doesnt matter what order you pick the adept or master work traits in. (IE.: I, III, IV is the same as IV, III, I )

So no, that number is not correct at all.

Nike.2631:

One of those numbers is right, the other is off by over two orders of magnitude.

•Right now a single trait line take to 6 points has 418 possible arrangements of traits. Ignoring anything other than 6/6/2 set-ups (and there are many other combinations that have well regarded examples) that gives 31,450,320 traits combinations per class.

Erm, how did you get 418? 6 * 9 * 11 = 594 permutations (which accounts for the order they are in so that’s incorrect to begin with) (6 adept * ((6 adept – 1 choice) + 4 master) * ((10 adept/master – 2 choices) + 3 grandmaster)

So in order to count the combinations correctly (or more correctly? )
There’s 4 different ways to pick traits:
all adept: 20 combinations (5 * 4 or 6 * 5 * 4 / 3 * 2 * 1)
2 adept 1 master: 60 combinations ( (6 * 5 / 2) * 4 )
1 adept 2 master: 36 combinations (4 × 3 / 2) * 6)
1 adept 1 master 1 grandmaster: 72 combinations (6 * 4 * 3)
Which is a total of 188 combinations (that is at least if you fill all major traits in, unless you want to discuss how not picking a trait is a combination as well, then it’s 270)

Then the math for 6/6/2 would be (I think?): 188*188*6 * 30 = 6.361.920
The 30 is the possible combinations of 6/6/2s you have: (5 * 4 / 2) * 3 or 5 * (4 * 3 / 2)

But I might be doing something wrong here.

•The new system allows a total of 27 arrangements per line. If you like two adept level traits, tough, you can’t have them. Ever. Being locked to exactly 6/6/6 means there is a total of 10 possible unique line combinations bringing the total number of trait set-ups per class to 196,830 (27^3×10). Add another 196,830 for each elite line they introduce.

At least that seems correct, yes.

Personally I would’ve settled for a completely different system without the whole all traits that were previously belonging to a different system.

I think the one thing here that is more “damaging” is that they try to move from one system to another. All the old traits need to adjust to a new system which basically wasn’t made for these traits. Making the choices less "fun"as some are just alot less enticing than others, because previously you would combines some of the early traits for example. Also alot of people invested by buying specific armor and gear for their build in the form of ascended weaponary and such and after all that fine tuning they pull out the rug from under us because they want a new rug which will be better able for future additions. (Which could be explained as a necessary evil or something that’s not worth it) Plus who’s not to say they won’t do this later on when they change their minds again.

Both systems are fine imo, One has more customisation possible and allows for more experimentation. (something that was part of GW1) The other is very streamlined and makes it alot easier to switch between different builds because of the clearer and limited options. It’s also alot more accessible for new players. (Then again this game is too old imo to accommodate for new players, and should look more what it can do for the older players. Changing the foundations of the game to me feels like they’re just making the same game with the same content while changing how the game works, but not actually providing any sustainable new content. So hopefully this new system will allow for more future additions faster rather than changing the foundation again.

I think giving out the DLC for free for those who were present at release was a mistake on their part. Because now you have people complaining they missed out on that opportunity.

But on the other hand, you had also people complaining when GW2 went on sale a few months after release, saying they felt cheated out of their money.

Both those argument fall under: I don’t like ArenaNet’s marketing methods, yet I want to have their products anyway.

Then again, now we have an expansion to pay for which is basically the same complaint, but I think that that at least means that everyone is paying the same price…..until they put it on sale after the release of the expansion, of course.

Then again this thread OP should’ve read as: I dislike paying for LS2 because I don’t like paying money for content I missed. And stopped at that, because there’s really no valid reason to complain about a product actually costing money other than just disliking to pay money in the first place.

It would be like complaining at a supermarket that they sold a new kind of beer for cheap last week (as a promotional effort they even gave away a few for free), when you were on vacation buying your beer somewhere else, and now the prices are back normal, because promotional period has ended.

(And even then, this DLC purchase is one time acquirement anyway)

DevilLordLaser.8619:

TL;DR: no, they haven’t announced anything of major importance in a while, I doubt they’re going to until close to release, and the blame lies squarely with you for being awful at dealing with news you may not particularly like.

Can I also point in a random direction and blame someone?

I don’t think ArenaNet’s stance has changed all that much because people are being critical, ArenaNet has always been fairly slow with coming out with stuff they can actually present in it’s full force since before release. So your whole rant about people complaining is fairly pointless, in my opinion. There will always be people who don’t like something and will say so, so IF that is a reason to not show us anything new, then I would say that’s a pretty weak reason.

I mean, if players are unsatisfied, they will voice that. I don’t see much wrong with that at all. Of course, the point is that most people don’t even know why they are, and the actual reasons are rarely voiced in a way that developers know what is going on. This is generally the task of the community managers and customer researchers and the like. Finding out what the problem is what people really want from the game, and why they might be unsatisfied with the game. But also what makes them happy, and what people liked seeing.

This has been brought up many times. I doubt they will ever fix it, even though there is a clear unbalance between getting full cloth ascended and full leather/heavy ascended.

I don’t particularly mind something having a good price, but this is clearly unbalanced.

I don’t understand why they are unable to make cloth armor at least be AROUND the same effort of the other ascended armors. If that means making the other two ascended recipes cost more materials, or make the cloth ascended cost less I don’t really care. But it’s clearly unfair for anyone who loves to play a cloth armor profession seriously enough to get ascended armor for them.

There is no reason at all to favour certain professions over another in this way, and I don’t see how it can be much harder than switching a few numbers or recipes around so that cloth ascended armor is in line with the other ascended armors.

To me that is the real problem here.

Oreithyia.3064:

German is an official Minority language in 7 of Germanys neighbouring countries and in 2, except of Germany it is one of the offical languages. Not to forget there are enough countries, like for example on eastern Europe that have german native speaking Minorities or speak languages very close to German.
It may not be the biggest speaker group, but German is still in den Top Ten.

It’s only 6 countries officially. Not that it matters that much though.

Just destroying wooden gates isn’t all that impressive though. Most borderland upgraded towers have the better gates. Plus if you’re repairing it you will counter the effect of the weapon.

It’s not as clear-cut as you make it out to be.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Because they change the way additions are coming to you instead for free you need to pay for the whole lot you are getting in the future. (It’s basically buy to play x2)

…and we are supposed to be happy about this change to the content delivery method?

…give Anet praise?

How can you almost reiterate the exact point I’m trying to make, state it as fact, but when I express my opinions/concerns about said point, you pretend like what I am saying is invalid and doesn’t make sense?

I wouldn’t say your point that you need to pay for something makes you unhappy is invalid. I can absolutely understand that it’s a disappointment that for some of these features that have been promised for a long time now are part of a paid expansion. But its not entirely surprising, unexpected or otherwise a wrong thing to do by any company. IT IS in fact content you want to see in the game.

Also, because previously they have been very ambitious with telling what they want to make for the game, it might be worth noting that they currently are being very careful with what they are telling. We literally know the base core features but not any details nor anything beyond that. I think they realise it’s a mistake to come out with promises, as some of us will not realise that when creating something not all the plans will immediately come to fruition or in the time frame they set out to be. (not something I like either, but it is a sad fact)

TheBlackLeech.9360:

If I give you a free apple every day for 100 days, you will have 100 apples on day one hundred at no cost to you.

If I give you nothing until day one hundred, then give you 100 apples and then charge you for them. You will have your 100 apples just the same…. but you had to pay for them.

Let me fix your non-fitting analogy. Again.

If I give you a free apple every day for 100 days, you will have 100 apples at the end at no cost to you.

If I give you nothing after, you complain that you are not getting any more free apples and therefore I’m unfair as I promised you more apples.

Arenanet already gave many additions to the game for free, you already have these. Because they change the way additions are coming to you instead for free you need to pay for the whole lot you are getting in the future. (It’s basically buy to play x2)

That said, the price Vs content or quality comparison is a very logical thing to do if you want to be sure you are spending money on the right thing. However you are grasping at straws here, which makes this whole opinionated piece based on very little.

You can’t build an argument like a house of cards and expect it will hold when the wind blows.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

New Legendaries were said to happen (in 2012) for 2013…… and now we are finally getting them bundled into the “expansion.” That might just barely make it into 2015.

This is what I’m talking about….. content, features, etc. that we were going to just get for free… are being saved up and are going to be put behind a pay wall.

No amount of white knighting is going to change anyone’s view on this.
This is factual.

I’m just hoping we see an equivalent amount or more of living story/content and features if we have to wait for the expansion without getting any new content in between.

You suggest though, that they “saved” up until now to come out with this. To me it was more that they were unable to provide the right content in order to actually get the new legendaries or that precursor crafting (which is alot different than what they have shown us here actually) would be a thing. There have been several Dev comments on the matter since that blog. Including Lindsey saying she was working on it (amongst too many other things) end 2013, but it wasn’t done yet.

From Colin Januari 2014 on precursor hunting, which to me seems the whole map rewards that they talk about in the current blogpost was already being worked on back then. Although the context may be a bit lost.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Where-s-the-Scavenger-Hunt-post/first#post1190541

From the blog post in Januari 2014:

A few things on our list of projects for 2013 will be extended into 2014 as we continue to revise, test, and polish to ensure we put out features we think are the best for the game in the long run.

It is indeed a failure on their part that they said they would deliver this in 2013 and then said it wasn’t in their scope of things half a year later, and only until now they managed to put the time in to make it. But to say that this “feature” was ready since 2013 and just saved up in order to put it behind a paywall is just clearly false. It seems to me that it needed alot more work (and money) on all the different parts of the game before it was in the right place in the whole game. (while also working on bringing the game to China) Which is probably similar to the whole Guild Halls which were said to come some time in the future.

Although one could say that they never said anything about any expansion material to be completely free at any time forever, it might feel a bit like it was said theywould give you this, but they actually need to make money on this so it’ll be part of this gigantic feature pack of promised features, which you have to pay for so they can guarantee the game doesn’t fall apart after. (Or something along those lines, as you could also say they are just after our money I suppose)

If I’m honest, I don’t find it too unfair though that they put it behind a pay wall if that means we will get the content and features we want in the game. That actually seems pretty natural, as opposed to updated and adding to the game for free while grasping at people’s money through the gemstore.

Sounds like health is a resource? You know, like some champions in league of legends that spend health instead of mana. Not that there currently is a mechanic where you usehealth as a resource. Maybe a specialisation will use it? Im just grasping at straws here.