Racial skills are likely a leftover from early development when they were planning to make certain races better at things than others. Asura would be more inclined to magic classes, Norn to martial ect. They scrapped that idea and made a tiny goblin hit as hard as a 10ft NFL linebacker and we have the leftovers from their initial idea.
They probably just made then as weak as possible to maintain as much of a flavor/cosmetic only element to race choice as possible. A game that has one or more races clearly better because of exclusive racial skills is a bad game.
Yes, but the racial skills are not a good cosmetic because to use them you have to “sacrifice” utility and elite slots, that is bad design. Anet either have to make them completely cosmetic and not take up ability slots or make them somewhat useful so using them is not completely ineffective like now.
However, that is for the far future of the game because as it is now class balance is completely out of whack, what with the warrior dominance across all game modes and the many useless trait lines, utilities and elites.
On that note why cant the call warband summon the actual warband you picked trough the personal story?
A better question…why is Warband Support so weak when compared to Thieves Guild?
Because its a racial skill.
Still doesn’t explain why it’s 1/4 as effective as Thieves Guild. I could live with 1/2 or 3/4…but 1/4? Might as well not exist then.
See above. Racials are just for flavor, not serious skills, since they aren’t even available in PvP.
Yup, racial skills are for flavor but no one ever uses them so at this point they are just a waste of disk space. The fact that they are not available in PvP means that there is less of a reason for them to be useless. Don’t worry, if they get buffed a little bit it won’t break the game, class skills will still be a little better and will still be affected by traits.
Yep. I just need play and dodge more and eventually I’ll be able to faceroll other players as easily as they faceroll me. Through hard work come results. For instance, last night I managed my first 1v2 on my ele after over 8 months of daily WvW play. They were both eles.
Lol, I was impressed until I realized that you where against eles. Yup, we all just need to learn how to dodge and we will be gods in PvP and roaming. I mean ele players are the only ones who don’t know how to dodge properly so we need to step up our game. /End sarcasm
The OP needs to realize that the dodge mechanic is not an ele exclusive. So what happens if both you and your opponent know how to dodge, huh? Are good eles able to kill other players of the same skill level? Are eles viable in any role in PvP?
I would like to see ALL racial skills get buffed. Sure, I can understand that these skills are not supposed to be better than what professions have because of balance but as they are now they are completely worthless and are never used by anyone.
I don’t like having pointless skills!
Our base HP should be swapped with mesmers who have:
invis
low cd blocks
low cd teleports/evades/invulnerability
1,200 range traited stunbreak
clones
shatter, which doesn’t have to be spec’d 30 illusions to be useful
Why should mesmers be nerfed? We certainly need survivability buffs but not to the expense of a class that is not even op. Besides, I am not sure if increasing base hp of the ele is even the right direction to take. I think ele active defenses should be buffed instead.
Don’t say extra skills because we have already been over this, ele skills are generally inferior, with longer cooldowns and have to be comboed. Sadly this doesn’t only apply to weapon skills but it applies to utilities as well.
No, we have not been over this. You say ele skills have unusually long cooldowns, I say this isn’t true (apart from utilities). I’ll be more specific: Lots of ele weapon skills have short to average cooldowns compared to similar classes. The worst offenders are off-hand skills in general but there is nothing unusual about this. Mesmer and necro have long CD weapon skills as well (especially offhand), compare the skill lists. This is a feature of scholar classes, they are less spammy but each skill has greater potential when used right.
I looked at the wiki. It is true that necros and to a lesser extent mesmers have some high weapon skill cooldowns but eles have higher cooldowns across the board. Feel free to check. Also, from these 3 classes ele is the only one that has several 45 – 50 second cd weapon skills. In addition, many of the low cooldown ele weapon skills are very well telegraphed.
There is also a part of my argument that you didn’t address. The fact that many of the ele weapon skills are functionally inferior to those of other classes. Here is a very good example.
Eles have Windborne Speed in staff while warriors have charge in warhorn.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Windborne_Speed
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charge_%28warrior_skill%29
Charge is simply better. The only thing that windborne speed has over charge is that it has a cast time of 1/4 instead of 1/2
(edited by Ganathar.4956)
Finally the other benefit of attunements is the 20 skills, which is null and void because of it’s counterbalance of having them be inferior.
Tis not like you have a massive amount of self finishers or that each element has a skill thats on a total of 1.4+ power ratio.
Class is reliant on self finishing unlike other classes. This also means that other classes get stronger when they are with friends who have fields while eles stay the same.
Also having a skill with 1.4+ power ratio is nothing special, there are many skills in the game with a way bigger coefficient, just check the wiki.
Finally damage is not the only thing the matters, cooldowns, defense and utility are all extremely important. Keep in mind that you are talking about the squishiest class which also happens to have less useful defensive utilities than the class with the most health and armor.
(edited by Ganathar.4956)
Arcane builds still fail.
I actually like Elemental Surge and Arcane Shield and Arcane Power. i some times wish that Earth was Torment or something rather than a weak 1second Immbo but the others are rather good. Air and Blinds can be great against classes like Warrior and Guardian. I currently have the trait for added Vul as well which is pretty decent.
I do think they have a bit too long a cool down though and for Grand master trait they some are a bit lacking. Think Burning and Chill could have a longer duration and i think Earth inflicting 3-4 stacks of Torment for 5seconds would be better than a 1second Immbo, which is like useless against most classes anyway.
I have tried an arcane build with elemental surge on staff and it is definitely lacking, there are much better grandmaster traits that you can get. Arcane power can be pretty good but arcane shield leaves a lot to be desired, especially when compared to a warrior’s endure pain.
Arcane wave is an awesome utility, especially for staff and arcane blast needs something else because I can’t see anybody taking it in it’s current state.
As for arcane brilliance, it’s a fine heal. Sure, it is risky for an ele to heal close to an enemy but it has it’s benefits.
The blast finisher is amazing with staff as you can use it for various functions like might stacking or area healing with water fields.
It also has a low cd that becomes even lower when specing into arcane mastery and it’s cast time is the lowest of any ele heal, it even does a little damage if an enemy is near.
Maybe the new heals were a tad bit undertuned but I think that arcane brilliance was done right, now if it gets a slight buff I definitely won’t mind.
Ah now I understand what you’re saying.
Yes. At the start of a fight you have four sets of skills to work with. That’s true. But in order to attack and defend, you need one skill from several different attunements. And while it only takes a second to swap to water if you’ve just swapped to air, you won’t be able to get back to air for roughly 10 seconds. That’s a long time when you’re needing to pick and choose what skills to successfully fight with.
These are all valid points, but this is in my opinion what is meant by “managing attunements and skills carefully”. When you switch attunement, you need to have a plan, and you need to consider the fact that the plan may not be executed perfectly. But I’m sure you know this.
So. A set of Mesmer weapons have offensive and defensive skills. Right? Greatsword does, staff does, sword torch definitely does.
Ele doesn’t. Take d/d. Nothing in fire is defensive. Two skills in air are defensive. One skill in earth is defensive and 4 skills in water are defensive.
We’re locked out of most of our defensive skills once we leave water, and our best damaging skills are forfeited after we leave fire.
This isn’t to mention most of our skills that have real value are double the cooldown of a weapon skill on another class. And those skill cooldowns can be reduced on top of that.
You talk about swapping into a 100% defensive weapon set and then (if your timing is right and the situation allows it) swapping over to a 100% offensive set like it’s a bad thing. I really don’t get that. Being able to switch between defense and offense at the right time, negating spike damage then countering etc. is integral to any class.
Thank you for presenting an argument as to why chill shouldn’t affect attunements. Why should attunements be affected by chill when attunement swapping is integral to eles like weapon swapping is to other classes?
Don’t say extra skills because we have already been over this, ele skills are generally inferior, with longer cooldowns and have to be comboed. Sadly this doesn’t only apply to weapon skills but it applies to utilities as well.
EDIT: In your previous post you said that eles have the benefit of being able to switch more often because they have more attunements than swaps. You are correct in this regard but this is not a bad thing because eles should get some sort of a benefit from their class mechanic like all other classes and this benefit isn’t major anyway because the skills that you switch to are inferior to what other classes would switch to.
Finally the other benefit of attunements is the 20 skills, which is null and void because of it’s counterbalance of having them be inferior.
(edited by Ganathar.4956)
Elementalist doesn’t need to abuse a thing to be the best class for dungeons… Remove FGS, and they are still stronger then every other class out there.
Under optimal conditions eles are the best PvE class but it’s too bad that optimal conditions rarely occur. This means that warriors and guardians are usually better.
Eles are generally weak atm and if there is an aspect that they are decent at they seriously lack build diversity.
PvE: Eles are only decent in dungeons because of lightning hammer and FGS abuse. I wonder what will happen when Anet finally decide to fix FGS, I assure you that the reaction in this forum won’t be pretty.
WvW: Staff Eles are good in Zergs because of group healing/cleansing and Meteor Shower which is getting nerfed btw by getting a red circle. As for roaming Eles are useless, good luck if a thief catches you.
PvP: Worst class in the game, I don’t think this needs any explanation.
So eles are in a bad spot right now because they are only good in WvW zergs assuming they don’t abuse mechanics. If you do abuse mechanics then you are also “decent” in dungeons but a warrior is usually better. Then there is also the lack of build diversity.
Also, you are really overestimating cantrips in your post. If you want real defensive abilities look at warrior stances. And our CC isn’t that useful because the condition meta has forced everyone to spec into cleansing.
I disagree with alot of things here. It isn’t a nerf that Meteor Shower gets a red circle, because if you and your groups manages to do a succesful CC lock + boon stripping combo ( which organized groups can easily pull off ), you can still bomb the kitten out of them. As for roaming, I disagree again. Your standard roaming weapon sets will probably be S/D or D/D. If you know how to dodge, when to use your aura’s and blind their big attacks you will be okay. There aren’t many good thieves in this game. PvE, sure, but I doubt FGS is considered an abuse and/or will be fixed.
About the condi meta, yes, it forces people to go into cleanse. But only our healing skill Ether Renewal cleanses 8 conditions. If you go deep into water, which is viable anyway for WvW, you get condi cleansen on cantrips ( so you got a controlled regen and vigor meaning a controlled condi cleanse + condi cleanse on dodges if you use XI in arcana aswell ). It’s not hard to counter those meta’s as Elementalist.
GW2 will always remain a meta game, there’s nothing to change about it. I also think the true power of cantrips are underestimated by alot of Elementalists.
When I was talking about cleansing conditions, I was talking about your opponents having them as a response to the condition meta. This means that when you roam your cc is much less effective because your target is very likely to have good cleanse.
Now in zerking situations the ele can be good no doubt about that since conditions will be flying around a lot and enemies will not be able to reliably cleanse your cc. Also the red circle IS a nerf to staff ele even though I support it and think that it won’t affect ele zerging too much.
As for PvE FGS is being abused, now whether or not it will ever be fixed is another story. What we have to keep in mind though is that the FGS and LH combo severly limit our PvE build diversity.
Also, cantrips are decent and an essential defense for WvW and PvP eles, that is why most people take them so they are not being underestimated. I am just pointing out the irony of Warriors having superior defensive utilities to eles even though eles are the squishiest class.
(edited by Ganathar.4956)
Eles are generally weak atm and if there is an aspect that they are decent at they seriously lack build diversity.
PvE: Eles are only decent in dungeons because of lightning hammer and FGS abuse. I wonder what will happen when Anet finally decide to fix FGS, I assure you that the reaction in this forum won’t be pretty.
WvW: Staff Eles are good in Zergs because of group healing/cleansing and Meteor Shower which is getting nerfed btw by getting a red circle. As for roaming Eles are useless, good luck if a thief catches you.
PvP: Worst class in the game, I don’t think this needs any explanation.
So eles are in a bad spot right now because they are only good in WvW zergs assuming they don’t abuse mechanics. If you do abuse mechanics then you are also “decent” in dungeons but a warrior is usually better. Then there is also the lack of build diversity.
Also, you are really overestimating cantrips in your post. If you want real defensive abilities look at warrior stances. And our CC isn’t that useful because the condition meta has forced everyone to spec into cleansing.
I’m 100% main ele and I want FGS to be fixed.
I also want it to get fixed so we can get balanced properly in PvE.
Eles are generally weak atm and if there is an aspect that they are decent at they seriously lack build diversity.
PvE: Eles are only decent in dungeons because of lightning hammer and FGS abuse. I wonder what will happen when Anet finally decide to fix FGS, I assure you that the reaction in this forum won’t be pretty.
WvW: Staff Eles are good in Zergs because of group healing/cleansing and Meteor Shower which is getting nerfed btw by getting a red circle. As for roaming Eles are useless, good luck if a thief catches you.
PvP: Worst class in the game, I don’t think this needs any explanation.
So eles are in a bad spot right now because they are only good in WvW zergs assuming they don’t abuse mechanics. If you do abuse mechanics then you are also “decent” in dungeons but a warrior is usually better. Then there is also the lack of build diversity.
Also, you are really overestimating cantrips in your post. If you want real defensive abilities look at warrior stances. And our CC isn’t that useful because the condition meta has forced everyone to spec into cleansing.
(edited by Ganathar.4956)
Don’t really see why everyone can’t do a little of both and get the job done, really.
People zerging the events are also helping as each defend (or maybe escort) event that is successful also delivers 35 citizens, so that adds to the count.
Also, people want different things from the event. There’s nothing wrong with having options.
They are helping but not enough. You see, most events can be done with five people but you usually have around 40 people running them. Also, the LA events scale in such a way that having more people makes them more difficult to complete.
u don’t need to farm to get blade shards, i’ve done both the zerging and ran a rescue party, did the event maybe 6-7 times and I have bout 1500 blade shards.
Some people are casuals and have limited play time so they will need more days to get enough blade shards. There are also people who want to make multiple backpieces, it all adds up.
Then we also have other reasons why people might zerg as well as my previous post implies.
The logic of "deadly poison" (Miasma)
in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath
Posted by: Ganathar.4956
Canonically the event only happens once I reckon. We can obviously enter lion’s arch again but I think it’s just for gameplay reasons. So maybe scarlet’s minions evacuate as well?
Zergling with high magic find can easily get 150+ bags per hour AND all rewards from civilian save counter.
AND……… that right there is the problem, in a nutshell. This whole event is a leechers paradise. No matter how you slice it, we’re all leechers. Those whom AFK get rewarded by rescuer’s as equally as bag farmers get rewarded. This whole LA event has become a complete mess real quick.
Event’s like this need tokens to earn, period. No mixed signals, no multiple objectives, no RNG, none of it works well for building a community.
For which bags are best, I just opened 153 Alliance bags and it had the equivalent of 50-60s. They really aren’t worth that much for gold.
Most people don’t do it for the gold, they do it for the blade shards and the found belongings. Blade shards are needed for the backpiece and belongings can be used to buy several things like the gift of blades recipe, obsidian shards and the level up tome.
Bags also drop drawings that give luck and may drop mini magnus or an endless tonic.
Furthermore, the mobs still randomly drop equipment and the events give money, experience and karma. Let’s not forget that you can get champion bags as well and that you don’t miss out on the citizen rescue bags that some other people worked for.
If people start focusing on rescuing, they might get 2 extra bags with the last one having a CHANCE to give them something good. Why would they give up all of the above for that chance, especially when it’s not even guaranteed that the 1200 requirement will be met?
In addition the fact that some people want heirlooms for the potions and that achievements promote zerging makes getting 1200 even harder.
you do realize that you can get all of those materials for free? scraping all of the bad loot that the bags give you are more than enough to get a ton of silk scraps.
~ the only bad thing about crafting those things is that if you don’t have any of them and since they’re ascended materials you’ll have to wait 23+ hours to craft 1 piece of it. you’ll need 15 days in order to get 15 pieces, which is why i absolutely hate crafting ascended things, it’s beyond stupid. if we have the materials, then let us just craft it, or at least let the cap be 5 items.
Even if you gather the silk yourself it’s not free. Don’t forget that you could have sold the silk for a hefty amount of coins.
personally i love playing glass staff ele!
if you can get a nice position to rain death down on the point without getting noticed you WILL melt everything.and the most hilarious times are when the enemy try to revive eachother and all end up going down too!
but yes, if you get targeted, you’re pretty much dead.
its high risk/high reward, which would seem so worth it if there wasn’t classes like warrior with low risk/high reward…
as has been said before, the problem isn’t ele being bad,
its other classes having everything far too easy.
Yup, one mistake and you are gone, meanwhile warriors run around facetanking everything.
Well, in my opinion reliable chill is limited to necros and eles. I’ve yet to hear you address this other than flat out disagreeing and offering no arguments either way apart from a wiki link. Yes, it’s a very impressive list of ranger pet skills, but unless you get assaulted by an arctic zoo, it’s not going to be a real problem.
And may I repeat myself once again and state that weapon swapping in general is a huge deal and that 4 weapon sets instead of 2 is an even larger one? Is this also to be completely ignored in this discussion or is it simply that anything that messes with Attunement is OP and must be removed/nerfed? Because if that is the argument here, I might as well stop now.
It’s not ignored because I have already mentioned that eles have higher cooldowns to balance out that they have more skills. Look at the last post in page 2.
(edited by Ganathar.4956)
Yet it shows there are other classes that has decent and reliable access to chill contradictory to what you claim.
Care about giving your comments on Anet justifying that Eles don’t have “weapon swap” because they have “Attunement Swap” as a substitute?
No, it shows eles and necros have reliable access to chill. Again, I don’t know if eles chilling eles is a problem or not, I don’t really see it mentioned specifically anywhere, only necro. The rest are either long cooldown skills, pet skills, random procs or skills no one uses outside gimmick builds. I know little about rangers so I don’t know if axe is commonly used, but I’ve never seen one
Regarding the A-net quote…
I really think it depends on how you read it. What you seem to get out of it is that Attunement is a replacement for the weapon swapping mechanic of other classes. What I get out of it is that because eles have Attunement – which is arguably better than actual weapon swapping – you get punished by not having weapon swapping. Chill is part of that punishment, but of course there is always room for adjustment and as I mentioned earlier, I’m not a huge fan of the way chill works right now in general.Never did I state that necros specifically counters Ele. I’m talking about Chill in general, not class specific.
Punishment? You can view it that way but that means Elementalists were already punished by not having weapon swap. Now add Chill effect and that’s not punishment anymore but rather a sabotage.
Like Ganathar said, Thief Initiatives not getting affected by Chill is game breaking but Attunement Swap should be fine with it? Yeah, pure logic.
Yes, and having no weapon swap is a bigger punishment than one would realize. It means that eles can’t have both melee and ranged options at the same time.
Maybe I should make a pro and con list of what attunements provide as a class mechanic so people can realize how bad eles have it atm.
Yet it shows there are other classes that has decent and reliable access to chill contradictory to what you claim.
Care about giving your comments on Anet justifying that Eles don’t have “weapon swap” because they have “Attunement Swap” as a substitute?
No, it shows eles and necros have reliable access to chill. Again, I don’t know if eles chilling eles is a problem or not, I don’t really see it mentioned specifically anywhere, only necro. The rest are either long cooldown skills, pet skills, random procs or skills no one uses outside gimmick builds. I know little about rangers so I don’t know if axe is commonly used, but I’ve never seen one
Regarding the A-net quote…
I really think it depends on how you read it. What you seem to get out of it is that Attunement is a replacement for the weapon swapping mechanic of other classes. What I get out of it is that because eles have Attunement – which is arguably better than actual weapon swapping – you get punished by not having weapon swapping. Chill is part of that punishment, but of course there is always room for adjustment and as I mentioned earlier, I’m not a huge fan of the way chill works right now in general.
Chill being part of the punishment makes no sense because eles have higher cooldowns than other classes and because the chill punishment is only in effect if you are against certain opponents. It just screams of awful design.
In addition I don’t see any other profession get punished for their profession mechanic except ranger who only gets punished because their mechanic is buggy.
So having thief initiative be immune to chill is ok because it would cripple the class too much against chill.
But having ele swaps be immune to chill is not ok and eles should deal with it even if it cripples the class. Sound LOLgic.
(edited by Ganathar.4956)
Please stop pretending Attunement is “just weapon swap for eles”. No other class can weapon swap between 20 different skills. No other class besides warrior can trigger any sort of effect on weapon swap. It’s F1-F4 skills and those skills are affected by chill. Should Engineer toolbelt skills also be immune to chill? No. And only necro has easy, reliable access to chill.
No one is pretending anything. Eles already have higher cooldowns BECAUSE they have more skills so chill affecting their weapon swap is not needed.
Ele swap effects need to be traited for so an untraited ele would gain no swap effects from attunements.
Also, every class can trigger effects from swap because of swap sigils. And even if you consider sigils an exception why should a warrior get effects on swap without having it be affected by chill while the ele gets kittened?
The fact that only necro has reliable access to chill makes the situation even worse because if the elementalist ever gets balanced well against other classes it won’t be balanced well against necro because of chill. You know, chill will make ele more difficult for Anet to balance.
(edited by Ganathar.4956)
Hidden checklist within an achievement.
in Battle for Lion’s Arch - Aftermath
Posted by: Ganathar.4956
There is this thing called google, im not sure if you know of it, but it can help a lot.
How does Google help you remember which escort events you have already done?
While they can be very annoying when there are two, they really do add to the realism of a ‘siege’. There should be many things trying to kill you in a siege, and it should really make your character start dancing a little more often.
It’s not realistic at all. These lasers should take quite a bit of energy to fire and the aetherblade simply waste them to kill people who are alone?
Shouldn’t these lasers be used on the zergs instead so they can kill many more people?
This doesn’t make any tactical sense whatsoever.
When I zerg with the commanders I get close to 200 bags. When I roam around rezzing citizens I get maybe 20 bags. And since the majority is zerging, we only get about ~600 citizens saved total. Tell me, what’s the incentive to go saving citizens since the majority won’t do it?
You get 200 bags of what….a belonging and a blade fragment?
The end bag for saving 1500 citizens has a chance for anything from a previous living story including (but not limited to) fused weapon tickets, the Monocle, Celestial Recipes… and from what I hear there’s a chance you’ll get a precursor too (but I’m guessing precursor chance is about the same as anything else).
My goal is to save the citizens. The best a map has done with me in it is about 950, I want to help save everyone. And if you can stave off the miasma events (all of them) you get a bonus reward.
There needs to be a group at each of the major sections of the map and every event needs to be successful.
From the Patch Notes (that people really should read):
Coordinate to stop three miasma deployments simultaneously to earn the Triple Threat achievement, which awards 10 Spinal Shards and bonus loot.Rescue enough citizens and work together with the entire map to earn five tiers of rewards. > Tiers are set at 100, 300, 600, 1000, and 1500 citizens rescued.
- As players surpass each tier, contributors are rewarded Spinal Shards, Refugee’s Belongings, and Found Heirlooms.
> For players who attain the highest tier, there’s a chance for ascended materials and rewards from previous Living World releases.
- Stopping the miasma deployment by defeating the enemy troops will allow players to rescue five nearby survivors.
> As a further bonus, if all three miasma deployments are simultaneously prevented within ten minutes, an additional 35 citizens will be saved.
- Defeating each boss event (Aether Elites, Molten Champ, Wurm Queen) will save 10 additional citizens.
- Some groups in Lion’s Arch (Children, Moas, Lighthouse, Marriner, Orgres, Dolyaks) require an armed escort in order to successfully escape. Assist them by clearing their escape route and increase the rescue tally by five.
Need 3 groups (zergs) total….and people shouldn’t have to waypoint around the map. Each group does the events in their respective areas and in between events they save citizens and clear mobs to get them out safely.
Small rescue teams wander the zone looking for survivors in out of the way places and usher them to whisper agents or the exit.
1) Most people don’t know about the citizen rescue rewards.
2) Doing events does not only reward you with bags, it also gives you money, experience, karma, standard loot from mobs and chests from boss events.
3) You do not have to rescue citizens yourself to get the citizen rescue rewards.
4) Achievements require completing events instead of rescuing citizens.
5) Thoughtful and Thoughtless potions require a lot of heirlooms and thus many people are looking for rubble.
6) Keeping all of the above in mind many people who know about the rescue rewards come to the conclusion that rescuing citizens is a fruitless endeavor because no reasonable threshold of rescued people will be reached. So they decide to not bother.
So the bags we get at 100, 300, 600, etc citizens saved don’t exist? Or the reward bags we get at the end depending on how we do?
Nope, gotta zerg for 200 bags of blade bits, quaggan tonics, and the rare blue or green!
Yup… Not to mention the luck you get from the bags… and dragonite and e. fragments and other loots. And the slaying potions… and … Well, you get the point.
Not to mention that players can get 2-3 citizen rescue bags in addition to the 200 blue bags without rescuing any citizens.
Edit: And additional drops from mobs and the chests from bosses.
(edited by Ganathar.4956)
While they may add rank boosters, they won’t convert glory boosters.
Consider that glory boosters were so common, you could always have one active. In that sense, it may as well have been baked in to normal glory gains. If that had existed since the beginning, no one would be complaining.
You could argue that they took up a slot in which you would normally receive an item. That at least has some merit. But then they would only be worth the same as a low-end PvP crafting materials once the change goes in, which will probably be a few copper.
Well… they do also drop from black lion chests instead of other, more useful boosters so something needs to happen to them that doesn’t involve them disappearing.
@OP I dare you to take that warrior of yours and face a good engi or mesmer in PvP and then tell me it is OP. Even a good D/P or P/D thief would be you a run for your money. You could even add the Spirit Ranger to that list.
So you want a player who has barely played a warrior to go against a GOOD engi or mesmer? Yeah, tell me more!
If the OP faces a good mesmer or engineer and loses it proves nothing because he just started warrior. However, if he wins it will further prove the point that warriors are OP.
Warrior – 4 Sigils = every 9 seconds 2 will proc on weapon swap.
Ranger – 4 Sigils = every 10 seconds 2 will proc on weapon swap.
Thief – 4 Sigils = every 10 seconds 2 will proc on weapon swap.
Necro – 4 Sigils = every 10 seconds 2 will proc on weapon swap.
Mesmer – 4 Sigils = every 10 seconds 2 will proc on weapon swap.Engi – 2 Sigils = every 10 seconds 2 will proc on weapon swap.
Ele – 2 Sigils = every 10 seconds 2 will proc on weapon swap.Sigil = 9 second internal cool-down.
So if a Warrior has 4 Different Sigil’s all having there own internal cool-downs before you can use that same type sigil again, wouldn’t change anything they still going to have to wait the 9 second cool-down before that sigil will proc again. So if anything they will work same as every other class just they can swap every 9 seconds compared to everyone else whom has to wait 10 seconds.
If I’ve missed something here please let me know, but going off these fact’s I can’t see how Warriors will be any better with Sigil’s then they currently are.
Google GW2 “fast hands” and look at the first result.
Was playing on my guardian yesterday. Out of nowhere this Ele comes and arcane power + PoM + pyroblast me for 15k, instantly downs me from full health. While I’m down a thief attacks him and he just frost nova + blinks away, sheeps the thief and then explodes him with arcane blast + barrage + kiting. Mana shield absorbs all damage.
Then he opened a portal to karka queen and killed her solo.Doesn’t need any skill to play, just way too OP and needs nerf.
Stop complaining and learn to play. The Ele didn’t come out of nowhere he was just using his utility skill “invisibility”, look it up on the wiki.
Our class mechanic isn’t extra skills like your tool belt… Our class mechanic is a weapon swap.
Logically, if weapon swaps ARENT supposed to be affected (see all classes) then neither should Ele! Even if they are “one in the same,” like you said, we don’t get extra effects like stealth and such off the attunement mechanic.
If once we used our swap, for example to fire, that fire swap turned into a usable skill like “Hurl fire spike” then I would be okay with the double cooldown hit.
But for the moment, eles are hit doubly hard.
Look at it like this. Not only is our weapon swapping kittened, but our abnormally long cooldowns are also kittened by this.
And we only have those abnormally long cooldowns BECAUSE of the way we get extra skills. So you’re basically saying kitten ele in two directions, when really we should only be kittened in one direction — the same one each class is; skills.
While it may your weapon swap, the additional skills add by design might just balanced around that interaction with chill. Or look at it as cost of doing business like ranger pets being unresponsive or warrior getting the best tools with no/few penalties/trade-offs.
Profession mechanics do not come at a cost unless they are badly designed. The ranger pet example is very bad because Rangers and Eles were voted the two classes that need help the most in the CDI thread.
Guess what they have in common? A broken class mechanic that has unnecessary tradeoffs.
I ask you why should classes with chill be the only ones that have this extra benefit against the ele if it’s supposed to balance the amount of skills? The answer is that that they shouldn’t and that eles already suffer longer cooldowns than other professions to balance the fact that they have more skills even though they are the squishiest.
(edited by Ganathar.4956)
This is honestly a difficult one.
On one hand, its Ele’s equivelant or replacement of a weaponswap. But on the otherhand, its your profession mechanic.
6 out of 8 professions dont suffer from Chill in their weaponswap. But then again, 7 out of 8 do suffer from Chill with their class mechanic. And Thief suffers to a lesser extend, as Steal isnt really completely their profession mechanic but Initiative is.
So changing Attunements to not suffer from Chill would mean their “weaponswap” doesnt suffer from Chill, but it also means they are the only profession who’s profession mechanic is completely unaffected by Chill.
Its not as simple as people make it out, because the Ele profession mechanic is also their weaponswap.
Considering the current state of Ele’s i’d say such a buff would certainly not be uncalled for. And i would call it a buff as i do not believe its actually an oversight.But it wouldnt make Ele equally affected as other professions, but it would make them less effected then most professions. Who still suffer Chill on their profession mechanic.
If attunements where not affected by chill Elementalists would be affected by chill the same as any other class. Do not forget that having extra skills is part of the attunement profession mechanic and that all of the extra elementalist skills would still have a longer cooldown with chill.
For example a warrior gets his cooldown increased on his 8 weapon skills (autos don’t count), 1 heal, 3 utilities, 1 elite and 2 adrenaline skills.
An Ele gets his cooldown increased on his 1 heal, 3 utilities, 1 elite and 16 weapon skills.Well thats the part thats subject for debate.
If Eles get chill to not affect attunements, then my engineer has chill affecting his weaponswap AND his class mechanic of Toolbelt. Ele would have chill not affect his weaponswap or his class mechanic, as they are both and the same.
Thats why this subject depends on how you approach it. Is attunement a class mechanic or a weaponswap. And thats really just a matter of opinion at this point.
One way or another, Ele is getting a special situation where either their swap is affected by chill, or their class mechanic isnt affected by chill.
It’s not debatable at all as attunements exist purely as a way to give the Elementalist additional skills just like warriors get extra skills from adrenaline and thieves from steal. Those classes do not have their extra skills affected by chill in two ways like the ele.
Also, unlike attunements and weapon swap, kits are a choice and are not mandatory just like Elementalist conjures which are also affected by chill.
Another point worth mentioning is that the effects of chill are almost not noticable on kits due to the super low cooldown.
Toolbelt skills are additional skills just like the extra 8 ele’s get due to attunement swapping so they should be affected by chill just like all other skills.
So keep in mind that attunements are simply a weapon swap and that the true class mechanic is the ability to use 8 extra weapon skills by having extra swaps.
(edited by Ganathar.4956)
This is honestly a difficult one.
On one hand, its Ele’s equivelant or replacement of a weaponswap. But on the otherhand, its your profession mechanic.
6 out of 8 professions dont suffer from Chill in their weaponswap. But then again, 7 out of 8 do suffer from Chill with their class mechanic. And Thief suffers to a lesser extend, as Steal isnt really completely their profession mechanic but Initiative is.
So changing Attunements to not suffer from Chill would mean their “weaponswap” doesnt suffer from Chill, but it also means they are the only profession who’s profession mechanic is completely unaffected by Chill.
Its not as simple as people make it out, because the Ele profession mechanic is also their weaponswap.
Considering the current state of Ele’s i’d say such a buff would certainly not be uncalled for. And i would call it a buff as i do not believe its actually an oversight.But it wouldnt make Ele equally affected as other professions, but it would make them less effected then most professions. Who still suffer Chill on their profession mechanic.
If attunements where not affected by chill Elementalists would be affected by chill the same as any other class. Do not forget that having extra skills is part of the attunement profession mechanic and that all of the extra elementalist skills would still have a longer cooldown with chill.
For example a warrior gets his cooldown increased on his 8 weapon skills (autos don’t count), 1 heal, 3 utilities, 1 elite and 2 adrenaline skills.
An Ele gets his cooldown increased on his 1 heal, 3 utilities, 1 elite and 16 weapon skills.
(edited by Ganathar.4956)
On the question of the tool belt being affected by chill, it is indeed affected by chill, and honestly, the tool belt should be, because those are four more skills that the Engie gets.
On topic, I can easily see how chill can utterly destroy an Ele, especially when most of their condi cures are on one attunement, but I would like to say that if it’s changed so that Attunements aren’t affected by chill, then Engie kits shouldn’t be affected by chill either.
Wouldn’t mind if chill didn’t affect kits but it wouldn’t be a big change because chill barely does anything to kits anyway.
^^
Warrior damage is still pretty high without investing in it and investing in damage is too unrewarding.
am i the only one who think that warriors should simply do little less damage?
as in compared to glass cannon thief?warriors have the best armor combined with best HP combined with good self condition removal (third place after guards and eles) and exquisite mobility ( second place after thiefs).
and they also have the best DPS ( as in burst and sustained) in the game.
it is only logical that their damage will be tuned down.
I think that base warrior damage should be reduced but they should get better offensive traits so that there is actually a reason for them to invest in traits that give damage. If this happens we might even see more build diversity. However, I’m not sure that warriors will invest offensively in the current pvp condition meta.
I agree, chill is one of the most ridiculous things in game when applied to ele. I don’t see any other class getting weapon swap and corresponding sigil procs crippled by this condition. 66% is just far too much when applied to such a core mechanic, especially with how much chill necros can apply. Spinal shivers is just broken… 5s of chill * condi duration + 3 boon rip, and can be applied from trait AND skill. And too bad if you want to cleanse, since its now eons til you can switch to water or use ether renewal (not that you won’t be feared out of ER anyway with stability stripped). Might as well rename the skill to “ele bane”, since it excels at shutting down almost everything that lets an ele survive.
And it’s obvious that our attunements are not considered purely skills, given the fact that they DO proc weapon swap sigils.
I also agree that chill can be devestating against eles and the question if chill should effect attunements may be justified (I never said it is good or bad), but it stands that that they are skills (and are coded as such) and so they interact with all things that interact with skills. So i think that Anet wanted attunements to be effected by chill, well until they say or do other wise.
And by the way kits of engies also proc weapon swap sigils and those are utility skills.
I am pretty sure that Anet coded attunements the way they did because they needed to have them above the weapon skills and accessible with the F1-F4 keys like all other profession mechanics. I think that chill affecting attunements is a major oversight but I don’t know if it’s fixable or not.
Chill effects cooldowns of skills and eles “weapon swap mechanic” are essentially 4 skills.
So i am pretty sure it is intentional.And by the way that is not the reason that eles are more likely to lose a fight then other professions…
Skills have some effect, damage, something. Elemental attunements have nothing. They are a weapon swap mechanic.
Just because they CAN get swiftness and fury doesn’t mean all eles use this. Most do, but its not an excuse to make eles the only class to have their weapon swap chilled.
I don’t think you know much about ele. It pretty much is the only reason I lose to necros.
Elemental attunements are skills like every profession mechanic. And the effect is that they change your 1-5 skills. With your argumentation kits of engies also wouldnt be skills (they also only change the 1-5 skills)…
And by the way necros arent the only ones that have chill, so are you impling that you also lose against those other professions?
Say hello to initiative, the profession mechanic that makes you completely immune to the cd increasing effects of chill.
Attunements are a profession mechanic that happens to be a unique type of a weapon swap and not a skill so it shouldn’t be affected by chill like all other weapon swaps.
Other profession mechanics are affected by chill because they are true skills. The ones that are not true skills should not be affected just like my initiative example.
(edited by Ganathar.4956)
It’s useless, they are all voting for Ranger.
Who has advantages the ele doesn’t have.
What kind of advantages are you talking about? Spirit ranger in PvP?
The thread is about the entire game not just PvP and rangers happen to be more broken in more aspects of the game.
Don’t worry, it looks like eles will get the second CDI just be a little patient.
Are we listing classes that need Balancing or Development Time?
Because I think the number tweaks between classes are largely okay. But there are definitely certain classes that have clunkier gameplay, lackluster utility choices, awkward traitlines, buggy or buggy-seeming performance, etc.
Dev time!
in this case, i think people voting ele should think about their vote. eles dont need much dev time to revamp the profession and its mechanics. eles require more balancing.
If it just needs balancing that is ok too. Anything we do is dev time.
Basically, I want people to think ‘what class would I never play right now because it’s just not viable’ and list the top 3. That goes for all game types.
well if u think about it though. the least played classes might not get many votes, because who would vote for a class they dont play. i mean of course id give ranger a spot. all ele really needs is help in spvp, they are doing more than fine in wvw and pve. in wvw eles are part of the meta and got an important role. they got aoe dmg(meteorshower destroys every siege on walls), they got static filed for stuns and speedboosts, they got fire fields for might, they got waterfields for healing and condi cleansing. they got access to stability and more, but in spvp staffele is not that great and d/d ele in general got hit too hard, so yes spvp ele needs help, not wvw ele though
i main a mesmer and no im not happy with it at all. but people will not think of the mesmer needing buffs because all they see is the 1v1 mesmer in duels.yes, we are great in 1v1 and duels, but we are a light armor class and have no aoe!
they dont see the wvw veilbot. but i do and im sick of it.
u guys made a statistic of which classes are played the most and im sure not much has changes sinceapart from ranger moving further down and guardian moving higher up:
Class population has nothing to do with it or else warriors would be the ones listed the most often and thieves would be listed more often than they are right now.
Also the differences in population are not that drastic, eles and rangers would have to be the mains of 2-3 times more people than other classes if class population had a significant impact on the vote.
My vote is:
1. Ranger
Broken traitlines and too dependent on a buggy pet. Also did I mention that many of their defenses harm their pet while other classes get similar or better defenses for free? This class is bad everywhere except pvp, where they only have a single viable spec.
I honestly do not know what you can do with this class, it is seriously so badly designed that it’s not even funny anymore. What is the ranger’s role in WvW and PvE can somebody please answer me?
2. Elementalist
You would think that the class with the lowest health and armor would get something to make up for it.
But instead they have weaker skills, on longer cooldowns which makes the “advantage” of having extra skills meaningless because in the end it is a disadvantage.
Cooldowns need to be reduced across the board and then the skill and traits can be fine tuned if any more buffs are needed.
Eles really need help in pvp as they are the worst class there atm. Also, do not be afraid to buff them in general because they are nowhere near being gods in WvW and PvE. In WvW they are only useful for MS and support and in PvE the only thing that saves them is the abuse of the LH and FGS conjures.
3. Necromancer
Necromancers only really suffer in PvE but they are truly useless in that game mode.
They either need builds that have decent direct damage or PvE content needs to redesigned so that conditions can become viable. Also, more group support would be most welcome.
(edited by Ganathar.4956)
1. The elemantalist is a mage class and medium armor doesn’t thematically fit.
2. The increase in armor will barely make an impact on an ele’s survivability.
3. Thieves do not need the nerf to armor.
Well yea, Warriors are like the most unbalanced class I have ever seen. Whoever denies the fact that they can simply do everything has never logged into the game. Just look which profession every second person you pass uses.
This is simply a learn to play issue. Warriors are fine where they are at, the reason why there are so many warriors is because it is a popular class in most MMOs.
I mean haven’t you seen how many warriors WoW has? I bet that at least 40% of players main warriors in most MMOs. /sarcasm
You are right, vapor form should not prevent stomping, it should exist purely for the visual effect of an ele turning into vapor!
You know, a cosmetic ability with no function in WvW or PvP whatsoever.
(edited by Ganathar.4956)
Elementalist
The elementalist class mechanic is attunements which function a bit like weapon swap but enable you to have 20 weapon skills at the same time which offers a lot of versatility.
In theory this is very powerful and rightfully so since eles have the lowest health and lowest armor, do not have a lot of access to evades and have no access to stealth, unlike thieves.
However the drawbacks are way, way too big considering the overall squishiness of the elementalist.
*Many of the weapon skills require completely different stats to function even though they are bound to one weapon. Some need power, precision, crit damage, others need condition stats and others need healing stats. (This drawback by itself would have been fine but it’s not the only one!)
*Elementalist abilities were designed differently because of attunements. This means that Elementalist weapon skills are simply inferior to those of other classes, so you need to use more abilities to get similar or worse results. You also need to manage your attunement cooldowns and “guess” if the abilities that you need in another attunement are ready for use. And if you want to heal yourself you have to kitten your dps by going into water attunement.
*Elementalist utilities generally have longer cooldowns than equivalent utilities of other classes in order to “balance” the elementalist because being squishy and having long cooldowns on weapon skills is certainly not enough!
*Elementalist trait lines focus on single attunements and mostly provide benefits for that attunement. This is bad because the benefit isn’t that big due to the long cooldowns which force you to switch attunements. This is also the reason why the arcana line is so popular.
If the elementalist is to be improved we need to cut down cooldowns and improve abilities across the board so that the class mechanic actually starts to matter when compared to other classes. Right now attunements hinder eles instead of helping them compensate for their low defense.
The elementalist does not need higher base defensive stats like many suggest, it just needs better abilities so that they can counter their enemies more reliably.
The first step to balance is sorting out the class mechanics because if they are not in line their classes are very difficult to balance.
(edited by Ganathar.4956)
After looking at many posts in the forums as well as playing a ranger and an ele for a fair amount of time I can say that their class mechanics are broken when compared to those of other classes. This is because they come with severe and unjustified drawbacks that do not exist for other class mechanics.
If these classes are to ever be balanced and competitive their class mechanics need to be improved dramatically. After the class mechanics are improved we can begin fine-tuning them but not before.
Let’s look at the class mechanics of some other classes and compare them with the ranger and the elementalist class mechanics.
Warrior
Their class mechanic is adrenaline which can be accumulated and spent on an additional and usually powerful ability. Warriors get one extra adrenaline ability per weapon.
There are no drawbacks to this class mechanic and this is perfectly fine even though some would argue that warriors a bit too strong atm. Class mechanics should offer no severe drawbacks.
Theif
Initiative is the theif class mechanic and it is a clear benefit to the class because it allows the “spamming” of certain abilities and completely bypasses the cooldown increasing effects of chill. Thieves also have access to the steal mechanic which enables them to get an additional skill dependent on what they are up against.
Thieves may have low health but this is not in order to balance the class mechanic, they only have low health because they have a lot of access to evades and stealth, none of which are true class mechanics.
Ranger
A ranger’s pet is his class mechanic, the pet can serve as a “meat shield” in solo PvE content and provides the ranger with an additional ability depending on the pet. Rangers can swap between two pets in combat and that offers a little versatility to the ranger as well.
However, the drawbacks are enormous and many of these drawbacks are due to critical design flaws.
*The pet is not always responsive and thus you can’t always use it’s ability instantly.
*The pet cannot attack while moving which affects PvP and WvW performance a lot because a ranger by himself does not have as much damage as the other classes.
*The pet dies too easily in AoE meaning that it is completely useless in dungeons and WvW zergs.
*Additionally some forms of protection that come from traits and utilities harm the pet to protect the ranger while other classes can protect themselves for free.
All of these drawbacks mean that the ranger underperforms in dps in many situations because of their pet and to add insult to the injury you can’t even use your pet’s ability reliably!
In order to improve the ranger pets need to hit more reliably, be more responsive and be resistant to AoE damage. Also, please get rid of defensive mechanics that harm the pet!
(edited by Ganathar.4956)
What does this have to do with profession balance?
To use a Deimos Argument:
Necros class theme:
Death Shroud/minions/Mesmers:
illusionsElementalist:
The elements/ attunementsThief:
stealth/mobilityRangers:
petsengineers:
tool kits/ tool beltgaurdians:
boons/blockingwarriors:
land speed/health/armor/damage/passive effects/mobilitythat’s fair
Necros
Death Shroud, minions/HP/damage/wells/AoE conditions/Mesmers:
illusions/damage/stealth/ports/passive efects/passive attacks/ranged stuns/boonsElementalist:
The elements/ attunements/ damage/passive efects/attacks/boonsThief:
stealth/mobility (combat speed?)/damage/evades/landspeed/Rangers:
pets/spirits/evades/passive efects/AoE conditionsengineers:
tool kits/ tool belt/damage/passive efects/passive combat/boonsgaurdians:
boons/blocking/armour/combat mobility/passive efectswarriors:
land speed/health/armor/damage/passive effects/mobility? (combat speed?)Seriously lol’d. How exactly do attunements help eles? I would say that currently they are more of a hindrance since eles have worse abilities because of attunements and need to use more of them to obtain equal results.
What are the elements supposed to be anyway? Are they different from attunements? Maybe they are a class mechanic that I’m not aware of?
Also, the list is pretty bad because it doesn’t take into account anything but the amount of “stuff” each class has. You seriously can’t argue that all of these effects you listed are equal to each other.
lol… You should ask zapv.8051 about that because he is the one that wrote that. I only complete what he wrote because he was “forgeting” lots of things.
I belive he meant as elements as those “elements” you summon = AI.
And switching attunements helps eles. (boons/cleanses)
Yeah, you only get those if you trait for them and the boons that you said would fall under the “boons” category that you listed, let’s not try to make the lists bigger than they need to be :P