Guild Wars 2

Bryzy.2719:

Ganathar.4956:

Bryzy.2719:

Azumi.9572:

Tempest is dead before arrival. It’ll be a rotten corpse at arrival.

The only way to make people use Tempest is to nuke the Ele into oblivion and if you do that, people will simply abandon the class.

I’m willing to bet a Legendary weapon that Tempest users make up less than 2% of the total population of Ele in this game 5 months into HoT.

While you’ll see boatloads of Heralds, Berserkers, Reapers, etc. Tempests will be virtually nonexistent.

It’s an extremely bad specialization. No amount of feedback is going to change that. It’s dead already.

Not that anyone cares of course since Ele is already the best profession in the game.

That’s a pretty bad excuse to release a broken elite spec. In that case Anet may as well say: “We apologize, but your profession is the best in the game at the moment so you will not be getting an elite spec this time.”.
Then they wouldn’t have to spend their resources on something that a minuscule amount of players will use.

What you don’t understand is that elite specs are one of the selling points of HoT, so they need to be useful at the very least. Unfortunately, the dragonhunter is not faring much better than the tempest right now and the druid and forge will have minimal testing time. I really have to wonder if HoT will launch with almost half of its elite specs in a bad state. Remember, these elite specs are the only significant expansion to our professions since release.

The Tempest isn’t broken. I think by “broken” you mean “not as powerful as I wanted”.

There are 8 other elite specs to choose from if you don’t like the Tempest :/

Oh of course, as a Ranger you don’t have to spell that last sentence out for me – I’ve been playing the legit most broken and unwanted profession in the game since the release of GW2. This is compounded by the fact that Druid hasn’t been revealed yet, and that we will have just 1 BWE’s worth of testing (though even that’s not confirmed). This is worrying seeing as Druid is the last potential lifeline for the Ranger profession, particularly in the context of the new Raid content. The only reason I’m hanging onto my Ranger is to see what Druid brings. If it’s not absolute king of the elites at support and/or control then I won’t hesitate to delete and re-roll a shiro/glint Revenant as my main. As a Ranger and active forum participant over the three years GW2 has existed, what I’ve learned is that no matter how loud you shout, it is at Anet’s whim to look into any given aspect of our profession. It’s a complete roulette. Therefore there is no point in clinging onto my main in the naive hope that it will someday be fixed. Time will pass and the next round of elites will be rolled out. If it continues with the Tempest in the same vain then I’d advise you take a similar approach.

It’s pretty broken in that it doesn’t have any synergy with the core elementalist specs. The tempest traits don’t even have much synergy among themselves. Another bad thing about the tempest is that its overloads offer effects that the ele could already do well. If you noticed I didn’t even mention if the tempest is powerful or not in this post, because it does many things wrong besides being a bit weak. I could continue writing about the flaws of the tempest but they have been stated many times before.

Of course I will likely choose other elite specs. It’s just that I feel pretty bad that my main likely got nothing new out of the expansion. As a ranger, you have it the worst out of all of us so far, that much is true. I have played my ranger all the way to 80 and seen all of their crappy utilities and their counter-intuitive trait choices. I also know about your broken profession mechanic. (Edit: Maybe I should say seriously or incredibly broken here. I haven’t seen anything working this bad in any other profession )

Rangers should be the priority profession in terms of a re-work. It really makes me wonder why other professions got more attention in the June 22 patch. However, that doesn’t mean that Anet should ignore other professions and I still believe that the tempest is an incredibly flawed elite spec.

Bryzy.2719:

Azumi.9572:

Tempest is dead before arrival. It’ll be a rotten corpse at arrival.

The only way to make people use Tempest is to nuke the Ele into oblivion and if you do that, people will simply abandon the class.

I’m willing to bet a Legendary weapon that Tempest users make up less than 2% of the total population of Ele in this game 5 months into HoT.

While you’ll see boatloads of Heralds, Berserkers, Reapers, etc. Tempests will be virtually nonexistent.

It’s an extremely bad specialization. No amount of feedback is going to change that. It’s dead already.

Not that anyone cares of course since Ele is already the best profession in the game.

That’s a pretty bad excuse to release a broken elite spec. In that case Anet may as well say: “We apologize, but your profession is the best in the game at the moment so you will not be getting an elite spec this time.”.
Then they wouldn’t have to spend their resources on something that a minuscule amount of players will use.

What you don’t understand is that elite specs are one of the selling points of HoT, so they need to be useful at the very least. Unfortunately, the dragonhunter is not faring much better than the tempest right now and the druid and forge will have minimal testing time. I really have to wonder if HoT will launch with almost half of its elite specs in a bad state. Remember, these elite specs are the only significant expansion to our professions since release.

Groonz.7825:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

You forget players who just started having to cough up several gold for rewards that offfer noting to gameplay..

After 14 days the casual has 2 maybe 5 gold? having nop clue what top do and trying to grab WP’s in area’s where he /she should do events..

I can’t recall what event it was but this was the same thing last time, when the event occured it was a gold sink a new players back then were pretty much left out. I wonder which event it was. maybe it was when the Moa gambling racing was around…

The difference here being that GW2 just went F2P. There is a reason this event only happens in some low level zones.

Just make each event drop a loot chest that contains blooms on the ground like world bosses do. Then players will be motivated to stay because they will miss out on the chest otherwise. If this existed instead of the stacking system there would be no problem.

Also make the events give karma, xp and coins. It is unacceptable for a new player event to give no karma or xp.

Making the mordrem lootable can also make the event feel better. Just make it so that only a certain amount of spawns can be looted. If too many mordrem spawn the rest won’t have loot to avoid farming them.

Underwater combat is a mode of combat while gliding is like a minigame, they are very different. My gripes with underwater combat are numerous.

-It is completely imbalanced between professions because no effort has been put into balance.
-There are a very limited amount of choices for skills since many utilities and elites are unusable and because there are only 3 weapons.
-Some professions are even shoehorned to a single elite skill and weapon setup.
-There are no separate underwater trait builds, which means that your trait choices may be useless in underwater combat.
-You need separate headgear that has not been supported by the devs. Ascended aquabreathers are coming but only for fractal players atm. I really wonder if we will be able to at least obtain exotic aquabreathers that are not tied to holidays in HoT.
-Mob density seems to be rather high in some areas, which is pretty bad because it’s much easier to get aggroed underwater.

All of these problems are fixable, which is why I’m really hoping that the expansion after HoT will involve the deep-sea dragon. That would give a perfect opportunity for a revamp of underwater combat. The sooner it is fixed, the better for the overall health of the game.

scerevisiae.1972:

The main problem is not that druid and forge are the last specs to be revealed. The issue here is that they will only get one BWE to provide feedback to fix any possible issues and there is no time to change much until launch. I doubt that even all of the already tested specs will release in a good state, especially the dragonhunter and the tempest, which were available from the first beta weekend.

This does not bode well for the druid and the forge, as they need to be in a good state from the start or they won’t be fixed by release. I believe that there should have been a much larger beta test for the elite specs, but the time for that has passed. It would be a shame if rangers got the short end of the stick once again, so I really hope that the druid is worthwhile.

You are smoking crack if you think Tempest is in a good state. 90%+ of the ele community hates it.

Agree though it would be totally unfair if both druid and forge weren’t revealed by BWE3. It’s kind of unfair that other specs have already had 2 weekends of play/refinement.

Re-read my statement, I said that I doubt that tempest and DH will be released in a good state. This means that I believe they will be bad at launch.

Ardid.7203:

At this point I can’t help but think the Druid probably consist on only new skill: A big button that say “Became spirit”. If you press it, your ranger turns into a ghostly animal that dissapears in the background. Then that character is deleted and you have a character slot ready to make a new one.

This post seriously made my day

ZudetGambeous.9573:

DH and tempest are very balanced specs which give good damage or support with obvious strengths and weaknesses.

Thus they will never be taken or liked. Why would you want a balanced spec with strengths and weaknesses when you can have a spec that does 40% more damage then every other class while also having awesome defense, party support and utility?

As long as ele and guard are 100% better than every other class in the game their balanced elite specs will look like crap.

That is not sound logic because it assumes that DH and tempest are actually balanced. To see if they are balanced you need to compare them with every other elite spec and profession. You can’t just make a leap of logic and say that because ele and guardian are OP the elite specs must be balanced because they are weaker.

MiniEquine.6014:

The Tempest is getting a lot of flak and rightly so, but in terms of WvW? The Tempest actually looks pretty good for front-lining. Throw some soldier armor on with Runes of the Soldier (5-ally AoE condi-cleanse on shout), full shout build, and X/Warhorn (taking the 5-ally AoE stunbreak trait) and you have something interesting.

It usually means, of course, you lose your staff, which is what most Elementalists run in WvW, but it is a new way to play and could make for a good commander.

Front-line in WvW is a possible role for the tempest, but the problem is that tempest has very lackluster defense atm and will die in seconds. If defense was buffed by making actual traits that are decent and overloads were more usable, then front-lining in WvW would be a perfect role for tempest.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Eles should have a weapon swap button — but it should only work while out of combat. That would help streamline us between encounters without giving us utterly ridiculous in-combat power.

Every profession should have the ability to quickly switch their builds, not just eles.

Morfedel.4165:

unless they were releasing them all at once, someone had to be last. Relax, guys, we’re almost there.

The main problem is not that druid and forge are the last specs to be revealed. The issue here is that they will only get one BWE to provide feedback to fix any possible issues and there is no time to change much until launch. I doubt that even all of the already tested specs will release in a good state, especially the dragonhunter and the tempest, which were available from the first beta weekend.

This does not bode well for the druid and the forge, as they need to be in a good state from the start or they won’t be fixed by release. I believe that there should have been a much larger beta test for the elite specs, but the time for that has passed. It would be a shame if rangers got the short end of the stick once again, so I really hope that the druid is worthwhile.

Lahmia.2193:

Ordin.9047:

Rev got a weapon swap added after player feedback. Why not give one to ele too? The legends that rev can summon are a lot like attunements. Engineer has multiple weapons through the kits that they can swap to, but ele still only has the one weapon.

Whilst we’re at it, Eles need an ice bow buff. Oh and buff staff so meteors shower hit more than 8k, because that’s underpowered. Oh and they need more boons and blast finishers.

You forgot how eles need taunt on their glyph summons, alacrity and stealth access. The core ele is very lackluster as it stands and entirely dependant on the tempest elite spec to even function properly, so it could use numerous buffs.

On the other hand the tempest spec needs some serious nerfs. They can move far too quickly while overloading and you just can’t escape them. I think that overloading should apply a self-cripple or maybe even root you in place like meteor shower. With such a change I genuinely believe that the tempest will be more balanced.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Account_vault

You completely missed the point. Having to put your convenience items in the bank is inconvenient and a waste of time. Personally, I have never spent gems on convenience items because it takes less time to just buy the needed salvage kits and tools from vendors instead of swapping them through characters. This defeats the entire point of these premium items imo. And saving inventory space is not a valid use because I can just buy bag slots for that.

The solution to this problem is very simple, because it already exists in the game. In the achievement tab you can claim achievement item skins as many times as you want and on any character of the same account. Simply put purchased convenience items there so that they are claimable by every character.

Jski.6180:

Yashuoa.9527:

Well I am not asking to have stability a lot just to avoid cc in general.

Its just that I have seen that the overloads have quite lengty casttimes. Like 4+ seconds.

Thats like having a huge mark obove your head shouting interrupt me plz.

How are you gonna use those overloads on the front lines, with a very low amount of stability spells?
It would be weird if a guardian is required for a tempest to actually work.
Besides, its not like the guardian can reserve all his stability for when the tempest needs it.

Tempest needs stability or something else to be able to get of overloads better.
Maybe just make the tempest cc immune during the overloads (could add an internal cd to that if its to good)?

Its realty not odd to need other players to have a playable class becuse the game GW2 is not base off of solo play its base off of team play.

If you give tempest stab on overload you end the needs to play ele. The best chose is to ask for a brake bar for all overload so a stab like effect that comes with a big punishment when it is broken.

Overloads are the most punishing abilities in the game and you still believe that they need more opportunities for punishment? The longest channels in the game, that are also close-ranged, put your attunement on 20 secs cooldown even when interrupted, take 5 secs of attunement camping to begin casting and cost 3 minor traits? Are all of these not enough punishment? Where is my reward for all of these risks?

If anything, overloads need to be much less punishing, or else they will have to be 1-shots due to their insane, astronomical costs.

I think that the tempest should get another form of defense instead of vigor. Vigor simply doesn’t work with overloads in their current state. If overloads were changed so that you could dodge while channeling then maybe it would work, but I wouldn’t count on that happening.

Doam.8305:

No new skills

If you log into your Mesmer for instance you will have zero new skills at your disposal the same is true for the other classes aside revenant since it’s well a new class.

That said we have specializations so you have to change into an elite specialization which isn’t the same as the core class. All class will drop a trait bar which is baseline also your special abilities that are tied to the F-keys are also swapped out or changed. With the exception of Mesmer. As while every class will swap a trait line the others go much further in there changes. Instead of changing and swapping the Mesmer adds on too with the addition of the F5 key. The other class with no changes the Ele doesn’t add onto but made it’s changes with the overload mechanic so it’s still similar to that of the Virtue and Shroud.

That said three years of playing a base class to have no changes to it in an expac will see the majority of players switch to elite. Those who don’t like the elite will no doubt complain and flood the forums since while they dislike the dragonhunter there guardian remains completely unchanged and even 1 skill short with the removal of Anti-Toxin Spray. Complaints like this have already started to pop up as well if you don’t like the changes you have zip to look forward too class wise.

This will likely get even worse in the future as some players may get attached to their elite specs and won’t be able to slot in the newer specs in their existing builds. While Anet is afraid of balancing new skills with all of the existing builds, new skills that can be used by core professions need to be implemented alongside the elite specs when new expansions are released.

These new abilities would add variety to both core and elite spec builds and would ensure that all players get something new to play with. The addition of the missing types of healing and elite skills as well as new pets for rangers would be a good start. The current choice of elite skills is especially lacking, so I would focus there first.

Pyroen.2086:

In terms of heal and support Its good IMO. The heals are solid because of the aura traits. But, damage (condi and flat damage) is low which is what I think they are aiming for. I dont think they’ll buff this much just because ele is at a good place right in all game types.

Yeah, Anet is obviously not going for damage with this spec at all. However, it still needs major defensive and anti-CC buffs. How is the squishiest class supposed to be in the front line providing support and overloading for 5 seconds if it can’t defend itself? Core ele can build some pretty good active defenses, but those are almost entirely dependent on attunement swapping and cantrips, which conflicts with the design of the tempest.

Wolf Fivousix.4319:

Things I liked:

• Overload skills feel powerful enough for the long cooldown they have.

Maybe this is true. However, they definitely don’t feel powerful enough for their 5s attunement camping requirement + their cooldown + their highly interruptible channel + the 3 minor traits that they take. They have way too many drawbacks atm, they really need to get rid of some of these.

The Great Al.2546:

Valento.9852:

Your suggested “Rebound!” is far more useful than the current one, but it requires us to predict some stuff and it can be very hard to do. It’s different than other elite specs which have a fixed effect for elites which doesn’t depend on third criterion. You could give us a 10sec PBAoE effect that empower allies around the tempest to increase effectiveness in an area (damage? outgoing condi. duration? periodic super speed?). If it could give some sort of boon, I wouldn’t mind to channel it, as long as I’m not forced to stay in melee.

I agree, I still don’t like it. This seems like the only spec that is specifically designed for something like high level Raid content. This elite spec is missing the fun factor that other elites (esp Reaper, DareDevil) have…would greatly prefer an elite skill that summons some sort of storm.

Due to its raid-centric design the tempest might be mandatory in raids, especially if rebound can be used to negate the effects of some massive boss attacks that could lead to wipes. Get ready for everyone to continue whining about how the elementalist is top tier in every game mode

Argol Vazin.3061:

the problem is, within elite specs they also have the herald. So tempest has to compete with elementalist base which offers better DPS and herald which has greater durability.

while I haven’t played herald enough to be certain. It does seem at a first glance to be better then tempest. but that could be coloured by my dislike for tempest and the newness of herald thus my lack of knowledge about that class.

I would argue that most base elementalist specs offer both better DPS and survivability than the current tempest, while still offering good support and that is a major problem. Tempest will undoubtedly end up offering better support than base elementalist but it will still feel weak. I believe that the tempest needs more survivability in its traits, since they are pretty bad atm anyway.

With more survival the tempest might be useful in WvW as well, instead of being for raids only. This could potentially add more build diversity for the tempest by opening up the option to experiment with more builds that take less core specs focused on survivability for other game modes.

Vissarion.6509:

Can we get access to quickness some way pls??

Rebound is a good opportunity for this, try what you said but instead of another aura, add quickness to the end of the effect, done elite fixed!

In a previous post that I made a week or two ago I suggested to add a new aura that is exclusive to rebound and grants quickness to the user when struck and dazes foes. This way you can combine auras with quickness. However, it may end up too powerful if it is added to Karl’s existing idea as it was the main feature of the skill in my idea.

Argol Vazin.3061:

Karl McLain.5604:

Hi all!
Thanks for your continued feedback on the Tempest. If possible, let’s compile all feedback into this thread.
We’re iterating in quite a few areas for this specialization, including Rebound. Here’s the description of the latest implementation we’ve been testing over the last few days:
“Shout and infuse your allies with arcane energy. Allies who would take lethal damage while this is active ignore the deathblow and are healed instead. If the effect expires naturally, grant an aura based on your current attunement.”

Another small change we was due to the case that warhorn was missing an aura. As such (in our test iteration), Magnetic Aura now belongs to Sand Squall, in addition to its other properties. Looking forward to your constructive feedback from this BWE.

-Karl

this still doesn’t address the lack of “new role” we were promised.

The new role is being a buffbot for raids and maybe WvW if survivabilty is addressed. It is true that the ele can already do support, but it seems to me that the tempest is supposed to take it a step further and make you a pure support character. The particular change that we got to rebound makes it kind of obvious.

I’m not really thrilled about such a role but it is new in a way. Pure support that’s viable doesn’t really exist in GW2 atm. The spec might need a few more support options that are unavailable to base ele to make it more unique though. I liked Azel’s idea of giving tempest a unique aura and rebound is an obvious way to give access to it.

Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem that this spec can be made useful for PvP and open world PvE. Such a heavy support focus is a major hindrance in these modes imo.

Edit: As for fractals, they are a wildcard. We will have to wait and see what kind of rules high level fractals have before we can determine if pure support has a use.

xarallei.4279:

We still don’t know how they are implementing this. They might even have a token system. If the first boss is easier and more casual player friendly, it might be possible for the more casual folks to get some goodies too. It will take longer of course, but it might be possible. From what I remember I could have sworn they said each boss will get more difficult. That doesn’t mean the first one will be a walk in the park, but it might be doable for pugs/casual folks.

Just let the raiders have their exclusive rewards. My only gripe is that the instant stat-swapping function for armor will be exclusive. Hopefully Anet will make new legendary rewards for each game mode in future expansions. Maybe the legendary armor of the next expansion will be an open world PvE reward while the weapons will be from the raids.

I don’t believe that it would be wise to make all types of legendaries available for all game modes just yet. There needs to be material for the other expansions.

Palador.2170:

Ganathar.4956:

How are minions relevant at all to eles? If you want an awesome minion experience roll a profession that is based on that premise.

I believe some people suggested elemental minions as a defining trait of an elite specialization. Which, admittedly, could be cool, but I’d like it to be paired with something seen as a symbol of forceful authority, such as a sword or greatsword.

That could happen eventually as an elite spec, but it’s obviously not the premise of the tempest. Though I am curious about what would happen to the elemental glyphs if such a spec was ever implemented.

DarkyAnime.4531:

Tempest build seem to somewhat work with condition elementalist since most build stick with one attunement 90% of the time but only to switch for defensive purpose. Only problem is fire is currently the strong condition build and earth is very underwhelming so getting lock out of fire is really bad. If bleeding damage could get some love then it could allow for some interesting rotation for condition builds. Assuming the offhand is airhorn: One can either start with fire or earth depending on if certain abilities or overload effects is desirable at the start of a fight. Water can be used for burst healing then overload it for more heal. Meanwhile air seems to provide interesting CC.

How does tempest have potential for a condition build when it provides no access to new cover conditions for the elementalist? Your burn stack can get cleansed very easily, which negates almost all of your damage. The lack of cover conditions would still be a problem even with better bleeding.

Elementalists really need to get a condition focused elite spec at some point. It’s so obvious that I don’t know why it wasn’t our first.

When I saw the title, I was hoping for a good thread with constructive feedback. Unfortunately this thread doesn’t touch the real problems of the tempest at all. Instead it is just a pointless rant.

I also have to ask. What kind of nerfs did eles get recently? How are minions relevant at all to eles? If you want an awesome minion experience roll a profession that is based on that premise.

Maybe you should roll a ranger if you want a permanent companion. I am sure that you will enjoy losing tons of damage to its bad ai.

Azaruil.3406:

They should swap the new mesmer elite with the new elementalist elite. Cooldown reduction fits quite well with the whole chronomancer thing anyways.

I don’t think any elite spec deserves getting such a terrible elite skill.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Maybe they’ll have another after this one.

This is probably the reason. The event is likely a taste for things to come, just think about it. Why would the HoT pre-event be available so early when compared to the release date?

Jski.6180:

VodCom.6924:

Ganathar.4956:

VodCom.6924:

Conncept.7638:

Xillllix.3485:

Ohoni.6057:

Think beyond the “new” factor and you’ll realize all the flaws it has starting with the base core mechanic. Tempest should decrease your attunements cooldown, not increase it.

Decrease. . . lol, no.

Why not? Skills have internal cooldowns anyway, all you would be getting would be a faster attunement boon. Mesmers are getting dual shatter from stealth. Single shatter is already game-breaking OP.

Because that’s already what the arcane tree does, and people have wanted less swap-centric and more elemental-themed builds since launch.

This was, unfortunately, the wrong way to address either issue. The overloads don’t reward you for staying in an attunement for longer, they punish you staying in it for more or less the same amount of time as the base class.

You lost me on the word punish . How does adding an extra option to each element punishes you ?

You have the choice to activate the overload or not, just like you have the choice with the vanilla ele to stay in an element or to swap for an other element.

Truth be told, some people are not pleased to get something that does not makes their class more OP (I’m looking at you chronomancer) and are trying to find silly reasons to explain why they are kittened off.

While I tested the tempest during the last BWE and found it underwhelming, I still saw potential in this elite spec for PvE at least. The changes they’ve announced are going in the right direction.

Overloads are punishing whether you use them or not. If you use them, you risk way too much for very little reward. If you choose not to use them , there is no point traiting into tempest. Tempest is tied very much to overloads because all of its minor traits involve overloads only. In addition, it has the weakest ele traits by far. This means that merely having the option to use them in a combat situation is punishing.

The minors are as their name implies minor elements of the tempest. What makes the tempest interesting to me in WvW at least are the shouts that offers plenty of powerful auras for alies while allowing us to keep cleansing waters in the water spec.

For that simple fact the tempest is not off my radars.

Again, try to think outside of the box. Nobody is pointing a gun at you and say : use these overloads off cooldown. If you don’t need them, don’t use them.

Ya something i cant seem to get ppl feel that they must use overload at all times and not to just simply save them for when you need them. But i guess that would require skill on the ele class over just nearly face rolling that ele has become atument off cd you better switch to it now or will lose time.

What are you replying to? Did you even understand my statement? To put it simply, overloads are too punishing atm, especially since they are not better than continuing a standard rotation. If they were better I might have considered using them in some situations.

However, the most important part of my statement had to do with how horrible the tempest traits are, both minor and major. The traits have been the biggest problem for me from the moment that tempest was revealed. It’s nice that you want to experiment with shouts, but they would have to be completely op to make taking the tempest traits worth it.

Sube Dai.8496:

Codra.2794:

Josh Davis.6015:

So, I can’t go into much detail on things quite yet, but I just wanted to reassure you folks that we’re actively discussing a number of issues that are affecting balance in PvP – including, but not limited to elementalist sustain/damage. Per the usual, we’ll be talking to you folks about the changes once we’ve finalized them.

Sorry I haven’t been that active on the forums lately – we’ve been pretty busy around the office.

“Thanks, Grouch. You’re the worst!”

Edit: Also, just because this is an elementalist thread doesn’t mean we’re only looking at elementalist, and it also doesn’t mean we’re only looking at doing nerfs.

So nothing on nerfing Celestial Amulet ? I can see 3 stats that could be shaven in pvp at least (condition damage/healing power/ferocity). Or abjusting the burning formula?

Seriously dont kill ele in pvp again

Nerf the amulet that only one class can use, making it even more useless to all other classes…

Or nerf some ele skills?

Seriously leave might, leave the amulet remove some of eles burn stacks and finishers.

The problem with cele amulet is not only that it’s not very useful to other professions, but also that ele is dependent on it. If the ele is always being balanced around a single amulet, how will it ever have any kind of build diversity?

Mattmatt.4962:

Last but not least: Overload perfectly counter SoR …. even more counter-sinergy in tempest

True, but that is the least of the spec’s problems. Not every build needs to incorporate SoR, there are other choices for healing skills that can be used.

Ohoni.6057:

Yes, that’s sort of the point. The Overload option is about subverting the default playstyle, exchanging the current rotation for a longer and ideally more impactful rotation (it’s not quite there yet).

The problem with this is that overloads themselves conradict minor traits in every single ele core spec. All current ele specs have attunement swap traits and those are invalidated. The solution to this is to have these traits activate upon overloading as well, that way we lose less by specing into tempest.

VodCom.6924:

Conncept.7638:

Xillllix.3485:

Ohoni.6057:

Think beyond the “new” factor and you’ll realize all the flaws it has starting with the base core mechanic. Tempest should decrease your attunements cooldown, not increase it.

Decrease. . . lol, no.

Why not? Skills have internal cooldowns anyway, all you would be getting would be a faster attunement boon. Mesmers are getting dual shatter from stealth. Single shatter is already game-breaking OP.

Because that’s already what the arcane tree does, and people have wanted less swap-centric and more elemental-themed builds since launch.

This was, unfortunately, the wrong way to address either issue. The overloads don’t reward you for staying in an attunement for longer, they punish you staying in it for more or less the same amount of time as the base class.

You lost me on the word punish . How does adding an extra option to each element punishes you ?

You have the choice to activate the overload or not, just like you have the choice with the vanilla ele to stay in an element or to swap for an other element.

Truth be told, some people are not pleased to get something that does not makes their class more OP (I’m looking at you chronomancer) and are trying to find silly reasons to explain why they are kittened off.

While I tested the tempest during the last BWE and found it underwhelming, I still saw potential in this elite spec for PvE at least. The changes they’ve announced are going in the right direction.

Overloads are punishing whether you use them or not. If you use them, you risk way too much for very little reward. If you choose not to use them , there is no point traiting into tempest. Tempest is tied very much to overloads because all of its minor traits involve overloads only. In addition, it has the weakest ele traits by far. This means that merely having the option to use them in a combat situation is punishing.

Ark.6839:

As for the armors we’ve gotten since the release 3 years ago were:
Glorious Armor (PvP)
Carapace and its glowing version

Any more? Besides headgears and backpieces that is.

You can add the ascended illustrious armors and the full radiant and Hellfire armors to the list

Straylight.7529:

Ascii Red.4029:

All the content we have helped to create over the last three years is now being given away for free, that means its worthless. HoT isnt an expansion for GW2, it is all GW2 will be from relese day and thereafter. Of course when the next expansion comes out HoT will be added to F2P and what you pay today will be as worthless as the core game.

Just because there is no price tag on it doesn’t mean it’s worthless. Just because they are making the core game free doesn’t invalidate all the time people spent in Tyria.

Yeah, it really does make me sad to see people thinking like this. Having a free version of the game is a very valid business decision. One major disadvantage that GW2 had when compared to its competition was that there was no way to try it for free. This disadvantage was a pretty big limitation to the game’s growth.

Besides, the F2P version is just a glorified trial. Who wants to play for an extensive amount of time with so many limitations? What are you going to accomplish if you do?

This move actually made me lean closer to buying the expansion rather than make me angry and bitter, but that’s just me.

keenlam.4753:

Jski.6180:

AoE stun brakes for pt.
Shout auras or activation aoe auras that also have a doable effect (just 2 of them ice and earth).
CDR for pt.
Aura application also heals.
Self protection can be up to 40% dmg reductionist from the old 33%.
Moving water field.
Moving pull in.
Fire Tornado that keeps putting out effects (maybe not that new).
Making boons last longer after they have been applied.
RNG projectiles stand storms that move and hit as they go.
An ball lighting attk that act like a pet for a short time when it moves in a stare line attking what gets near it.
A brake bar (some what new mostly ele only new).
A fire field that “moves” after its cast for its duration.
I am not sure if aoe super speed is new.

Thanks for your reply. It seems I did indeed overlook certain new features that Tempest boasts.
I guess I should correct myself when I say Tempest doesn’t bring much new stuff to the game, I really meant something game-changing, something to boast about. But its good to hear some valid counter arguments.

So lets go through your list (I tidy it up for you) one by one.
- AoE stunbreak: is not new. Guardian has been able to do it thru a gm trait (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Indomitable_Courage) with their F3 Virtue. However, Tempest might be able to compete in this role.
- CDR for party: to be fair, yes this is indeed new, but not unique to Tempest and the way it works is very clunky.
- Aurasharing and other related features: ok, I overlooked the aura stuff. Auras are kinda unique to Elementalists, and Tempest will be able to utilize them even further, for example: group application and heal on application. Hopefully auramancers can become a thing with Tempest’s tools.
- Protection boon improved: I totally forgot this one. Yes, this one I give total credit for a new and unique toy Tempest has xD. I’ll be using/abusing this trait a whole lot for sure.
- Boon duration increase after application: this one I’m sceptical. Say if you’re switching to weapons/gear that has +boon duration stat on them, would you then increase the duration of existing boons on you? If the answer is no, then I acknowledge this one.
- Moving water field: acknowledged in my OP.
- Moving AoE that CC multiple targets as it travels: ok, this one is legit but the last time I used it, it’s not very effective, must be why I forgot about it. Haha
- Fire Tornado: the lingering tornado after overload is just a weaker version of your Tornado Elite. The overloading animation is similar to Thief’s Daggerstorm. Not new.
- Dust Storm and Lightning Orb: these warhorn skills do indeed feature new mechanics in their attack animations. But again, their impact remains questionable. We shall see in the next upcoming BWE after some number buffs have been made since the first BWE.
- Break bar: not unique to Tempest at all.
- A cascading Fire Field: this skill clearly uses the same tech as Revenant’s Brick Road skill. You can argue that its unique to Tempest because it’s a Fire field instead of a Lightning Field. But the difference is not that much.
- AoE Superspeed: the AoE application is new, but Superspeed is getting more prevalent among other classes now so it doesn’t stand out as something super unique. It’s a similar to the situation where Guardian can give out AoE Aegis but other classes already have blocks on their own. Not to disregard its usefulness though.

So to sum it up,
Most of the new techs Tempest has are related to the warhorn skills and Aura-related stuff.

But apart from the improved Protection boon, somehow I’m not so thrilled about the rest.

I would like to hear more opinions from you guys. Are these new toys (no how matter potent they are) inspiring for u to try out Tempest, to use Warhorn, or to try an Aura-focused build?

I have already acknowledged in a previous thread that tempest does bring some new stuff for the ele. However, the problem is that most of these effects are under-tuned atm. In addition, almost all of these are available for shouts and warhorn, which basically shoehorns you to these choices and limits build diversity.

The big problem with this is that the tempest traits and overloads are incredibly redundant and underwhelming and offer nothing new. And in the end those are the parts of the elite spec that every tempest will always have. The tempest traits are among the worst that I have ever seen and as long as these “toys” are locked behind such an underwhelming spec I won’t be using them.

Esbia.6715:

Leo G.4501:

I used to feel the same way coming from my first mmo, FFXI, where i just wanted to level under one name and that be my avatar for the game but whether you level up a different alt or a different class under the same character, it’s all the same. You’ll still be grinding, be it for map completion or hero points to unlock the various aspects of the profession. It’s up to you if you choose to to view the flaws within each system as features to embrace or that rub you the wrong way.

Looking at the way classes are unlocked in GW2, the grind would be much much less than creating a brand new character. Also it’s not just the levelling that’s the problem, it’s the idea of going through all of the content again for achievement’s etc. It’s a very big inconvenience for someone who essentially doesn’t want to play the game again. This inconvenience (which has put me off playing the next expansion) vs a system which would be relatively easy to implement and which has no real negative impact on gameplay… I don’t really see the problem here.

There really isn’t much grind if you make a new character. This is especially true if you have saved up a good amount of tomes of knowledge, which can allow you to instantly level your new character.

You don’t have to worry about achievements, because those are bound to your entire account, not your character. The only thing that you have to worry about is new gear and skill points. Gear is very easy to acquire in this game, except if you want ascended or legendary, which are account-bound anyway and can be transferred. You also only need 60 skill points for the upcoming elite specs, as you will have enough skill points for all of your core specs and abilities just by getting to level 80.

Kurr.4179:

Ganathar.4956:

Bearhugger.4326:

Ohoni.6057:

Comparisons are valid when they’re valid. They aren’t when they aren’t. You can’t compare WoW to anything that isn’t WoW, and you can’t compare FF14 to anything that isn’t based on a popular license. If FF14 is not crushing GW2 then that means GW2 is far and away better on its own merits. Wildstar is a valid comparison because it’s a unique IP MMO that has very similar gameplay to GW2’s, and yet focused on hardcore raiders, got all of them they could possibly expect, and it turns out that still wasn’t enough to keep a game running.

What? Is WoW is some sort of divine game that no mere mortal can create a product that can compete with? I have an active WoW sub and my entire guild only logs in to raid, myself included. Furthermore, the current expansion was terrible, there won’t be any more content until the next expansion which is due for mid 2016, and the game is bleeding subs at an alarming rate.

If Arenanet wants to charm the disappointed WoW players with raid content, there hasn’t been a better time to do so, and I’m pretty happy to see them try it because I think GW2 has been better than WoW in everything except group PvE.

In fact I think the picture would have been quite different if the game had compelling PvE content on day one.

While some former WoW players will surely appreciate raiding, it should be noted that there are plenty of WoW players that despise raids. These are the players who had the worst time in WoD, because in that expansion raids were the only relevant content, except maybe garrisons, which were just a boring facebook game.

Anet has done a good job catering to players of all game modes so far, while maintaining some rewards that are unique for each game mode. Hopefully, raids will be just one of the many supported game modes, instead of the focus like in the current iteration of WoW.

• 4 new triple tiered open world areas with event chains similar to Silverwastes/Dry Top
• Masteries and Adventures
• Tons of new collections
• New PvP map/mode
• New WvW Borderlands
• Changes to fractals to make them shorter and more accessible
• Raids

There is no need to worry. ArenaNET is hellbent on making sure everyone gets a piece of the pie. Hell, as someone who primarily enjoys dungeons/fractals it’s been a struggle since release with barely any new content targeting those areas of the game, but at the end of the day I understand that they are trying to make a complete game and not a one dimensional game so I suffered through it (and I still enjoy pvp, open world, etc so it’s not like it was too hard).

Like others have said, this isn’t like raids in other MMOs because you DON’T GET BETTER GEAR!

Don’t get me wrong, I know that Anet are doing a good job so far. My only worry is that there are only 2 open world PvE armor sets and that no PvP armor has been announced so far. But I guess that it may be that way because this expansion is the “systems change” expansion.

Bearhugger.4326:

Ohoni.6057:

Comparisons are valid when they’re valid. They aren’t when they aren’t. You can’t compare WoW to anything that isn’t WoW, and you can’t compare FF14 to anything that isn’t based on a popular license. If FF14 is not crushing GW2 then that means GW2 is far and away better on its own merits. Wildstar is a valid comparison because it’s a unique IP MMO that has very similar gameplay to GW2’s, and yet focused on hardcore raiders, got all of them they could possibly expect, and it turns out that still wasn’t enough to keep a game running.

What? Is WoW is some sort of divine game that no mere mortal can create a product that can compete with? I have an active WoW sub and my entire guild only logs in to raid, myself included. Furthermore, the current expansion was terrible, there won’t be any more content until the next expansion which is due for mid 2016, and the game is bleeding subs at an alarming rate.

If Arenanet wants to charm the disappointed WoW players with raid content, there hasn’t been a better time to do so, and I’m pretty happy to see them try it because I think GW2 has been better than WoW in everything except group PvE.

In fact I think the picture would have been quite different if the game had compelling PvE content on day one.

While some former WoW players will surely appreciate raiding, it should be noted that there are plenty of WoW players that despise raids. These are the players who had the worst time in WoD, because in that expansion raids were the only relevant content, except maybe garrisons, which were just a boring facebook game.

Anet has done a good job catering to players of all game modes so far, while maintaining some rewards that are unique for each game mode. Hopefully, raids will be just one of the many supported game modes, instead of the focus like in the current iteration of WoW.

There is no problem with having raiding be one of the requirements for the first sets of legendary armor imo, as long as the raiders have to do other types of content as well. I say this because current legendaries do have requirements across different game modes. Raiders should not be special in this regard, because catering to the raiding crowd in the expense of others is not the way to go with GW2.

Of course, we still haven’t played GW2 raids, so we don’t really know if they will be as time-consuming as WoW raids. Maybe they will be more accessible to the people who want to play them. It is also possible that they will be different enough to appeal to player who don’t usually like raiding. We will just have to wait and see.

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

The thing is that is the fear of what tempest could become something that is so profoundly better then its base class that it comply removes the chose to run the base class. Ele seems to be on the chopping block for nerfs they fill rolls every effectually as is with out needing to be a tempest. Tempest adds a bit more of the support game play with out losing what it means to be an ele and with out losing most of the power of being an ele.

What daredevil is and may become a class killer. This elite spec is going to get hit hard before it comes out and i for one hate to start at the top and fall down its a better feeling to start low and work your way up. Tempest is starting from low but its going to get better over time and it will feel and play all the better for it. Daredevil zerker even cron are starting from the top just images how hard they are going to drop before hot.

I’ll answer you one last time and please don’t quote me any more because I won’t respond. I’m tired of repeating the same kitten over and over again.

Tempest isn’t fun, engaging and brings absolutely nothing new to ele profession. Daredevil looks fun, has new animations (unlike our 8x blowing), traits have cohesion and synergy. Balancing numbers won’t ever change those relations.

Actually, upon closer examination, the tempest does bring some new things to the ele. The problem is that a large portion of the new stuff is just AoE support versions of current ele effects, which is boring. In addition, many of the effects are under-tuned and some even require unrealistic levels of co-ordination from the group. From the effects that are completely new, and not just AoE versions of existing effects, I would say that only the boonshare on the warhorn is good. Finally, none of the new stuff from the tempest are part of the class mechanic, which means that you are forced to take warhorn or shouts if you want anything new.

rotten.9753:

Tempest has worse support than core ele so I can’t really understand your ideas.

Unfortunately, this seems to be true thus far. It also won’t help that overloads are incredibly easy to interrupt, because challenging content will have mobs that can interrupt for sure.

As for raids themselves, I am not convinced that all of the elite specs are designed for that particular game mode. Different specs seem to have a focus on different game modes as far as I can tell. Focusing on making new specs only for raids would not be good imo.

Many MMOs have gone through the path where they try to balance around raiding and try to get you to raid. Raiding in GW2 should be a challenging group activity for whoever chooses to undertake it, and not crammed down our throats. If the elite specs were only made with raiding in mind, that would mean that they would be made for raiders only and not for players who don’t want to raid. I just want to say that this is a dangerous mentality to have for an inclusive game and I’m sure that Anet will not make the mistake of overly focusing on raiding.

Ohoni.6057:

It all depends on how you define worst. You can define it two ways: how well it succeeds in bringing something new to the profession or how popular it ends up being. No profession deserves to have the worst.

Well, but somebody will be the worst, that’s just math.

By the first definition, warrior should be considered for getting the worst. The design of the warrior is (and continues to be) based around having a very simple set of skills, utilities, and traits.

And by your first definition, the Berserker would be close to worst, since it’s basically just “A ’zerker Warrior, only more of that stuff.” It’s a very cool class, but doesn’t really bring a lot of new stuff to the equation.

Anyways, of the ones we’ve seen, I do agree that Tempest is likely the worst, and I do hope they make some tweaks to it, both in performance and in visuals, but I think it has promise to perhaps not be the worst without them having to make massive structural changes, and if not, well somebody’s got to be the worst, why not one of the better classes currently in the game? Take one for the team guys.

I definitely wouldn’t mind tempest being the worst elite spec if it wasn’t so bad. Anet should strive to make all of the elite specs good in some way, even though one will inevitably end up being the worst. What bothers me is that I can’t find a reason to use tempest in any game mode. It would just be a shame if Anet worked hard to make the new and shiny elite specs, just to have some end up almost unused.

Gabriell.4856:

tobascodagama.2961:

Gray.9041:

but other classes don’t give up a trait for it – they get it in their minor.

Nobody else gets an additional 50 Endurance from a minor trait. Or any other trait.

He was talking about the new mechanic which some say it is the effect on dodge.

Our “new” mechanic is gated behind GM traits.

I guess that it was Anet’s best choice because this mechanic requires you to choose your dodge and is potentially very powerful, especially with that extra 50 endurance + endurance regen that you get.

We will simply have to see how it works out, it may actually turn out to be a brilliant idea to make mechanics that give you three choices like this. It’s certainly unique when compared to the standard adept minor mechanic that the others are getting, that’s for sure.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Uh.. The Mes thread was one guy mentioning that he still has trouble with thieves and asking advice on how to beat them.

But on topic; I love everything so far about daredevil, even the name.

He’s just handpicking posters that help him prove his point. Their posts do not represent the entirety of their respective profession forums.

Kidel.2057:

But they can already burst and do condi.

Technically every profession has some conditions and some form of burst. I’m talking about builds dedicated to these aspects of the game.

Eles can burn you for tons of damage, yes. However, that is due to how broken burning is atm. Expect nerfs to burning soon. Besides, eles have no dedicated Condi build because they can’t access tons of cover conditions easily.

And the current ele burst specs are pathetic, let’s not even go there.

Aetrion.8295:

The biggest problem with Tempest is that people seem to think that Tempest must be an upgrade to what they are doing right now, which is simply not the case. Tempest isn’t supposed to make all current builds obsolete, it’s supposed to be one of many possible builds.

The fundamental issue ANet needs to address is that it’s currently way too easy to make an ideal build and literally thousands of other build possibilities are viewed as useless as a result. So sure, as long as that’s broken nobody is going to be happy with getting something added to the game that isn’t better than what they got in every way.

Not true. The only reason why tempest must be “better” is because it does what an ele can already do, but worse. An elite spec is supposed to be different.

This spec could have given us a proper condition or burst build, to name a few off the top of my head. Contrary to popular belief, eles can’t do everything.

Just because the tempest is horrible, doesn’t mean that I will quit. I will likely continue to play ele without touching its elite spec. My elite specs of choice will be the reaper and the berserker. They both seem to be turning out awesome and I’ve always wanted to make my norn warrior a blood-thirsty and reckless barbarian.

Vulnerability was changed to affect condition damage as well in the June 23 patch.

BlackBeard.2873:

EsarioTwo.9251:

Xillllix.3485:

It convinced me that its the worse of the elite professions.

This.

Just gonna leave this here, while we are at it:

http://imgur.com/a/Ee6t8#10

I mean, can’t they look at the numbers and see that nobody ever casts churning earth and few people ever use ether renewal (both long channels, although ER has seen use at times b/c of the high healing potential) because of their cast times? Overloads are like these skills, but with ADDITIONAL penalties for using and little payoff for completing.

Overloads, as a concept, just don’t work. If they keep buffing them to be worth the cost of using, they will have to make them:
Fire: Outputs pulsing 3 stacks of burns and 10stacks of might for 25s
Air: 1-shots an enemy at the end
Water: full-heal
Earth: Moving sandstorm (glyph of storms in earth)

Obviously, those are all OPAF, but that is because the cost to use an overload is sky-high. Bring the cost down significantly so they don’t NEED to be OP to be balanced.

The first thing that I noticed in that album is that pulmonary impact doesn’t work with the weakening strikes trait

But seriously, this looks quite a bit better than I expected for thief, even though they gutted acrobatics for it, which may need re-purposing now or some sort of buff.

As for overloads, I believe that Karl is having a very difficult time balancing them. I mean, they should be incredibly OP because of their astronomical cost, but that is not very good design. However, if they become easier to cast and have less cost, they might just become part of the standard elementalist rotation which is already powerful enough. The design intent was very likely to disrupt the rotation of the elementalist and offer a new way to play. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to have worked out at all.

What if overloads were quick spells that enabled you to tap into an attunement from a different attunement? For example, I could have a build that camps fire and I could use a water overload while in fire attunement for some healing and cleansing. Using the overload would enable me to remain in fire but would put my water attunement on cooldown.
There are of course problems with this such as what hotkeys are these overloads bound to by default. In addition, most ele auto-attacks are very weak, though that could perhaps be solved with proper traits. I am also pretty sure that there are other issues that I haven’t thought about as well, but I just came up with it and haven’t spent any time thinking about the specifics.

draxynnic.3719:

Ganathar.4956:

Edit: Not to disregard your stability suggestion, it’s much better than what we have now. I simply can’t understand how overloads as a concept made sense for this profession. It is the squishiest class in terms of base stats and needs many active defences. Instead of doing something to address this for more build diversity, they came up with an idea that makes cantrips even more mandatory.

Actually, the elementalist has a surprising range of instant-cast utilities. Arcane skills are also all instant-cast (and if overload becomes a major source of damage, adding arcane skills to an overload spike could be scary). Glyph of Elemental Power and Signet of Air are instant cast, as are “Feel the Burn!” and “Eye of the Storm!”

If you’re running scepter, you can Lightning Strike and Lightning Flash while channeling Air. The weapon-based aura skills also all have instant casts. Some other weapon skills claim to in the tooltip, but clearly DO have casting times. :P

The elementalist does not only rely on utilities for defence. It requires swapping into earth to minimize the opponent’s damage and swapping into water for the heals. Overloading locks you out of that while forcing you in melee. Anet tried to alleviate this with hardy conduit, but it does an incredibly bad job of replacing all of those lost defences.

I’ve seen plenty of awesome suggestions here already and we haven’t even gone to the second page yet. I will not repeat what has already been stated here by everyone else.

All that I have to add is that the Tempest has counter-synergy with a large number of elementalist traits atm, because it encourages overloading, which limits attunement swapping. This means that the effects of attunement swapping traits are minimized a lot. This wouldn’t be so bad if many of the traits affected weren’t minor, which you are forced to take.

For this reason I suggest that attunement swapping effects are activated when you begin overloading. For example, if you activate overload fire while having the sunspot minor from the fire line, you will get a fire aura and deal some AoE damage.