Guild Wars 2

With the overnerfed pistols and rifle being more a CC tool than damage

The hell?? That made me laugh so hard i promptly began rubbing my rifle.

OP sounds like you’re getting owned by Blurred Frenzy? You must practice on noticing the real mesmer then knowing the reaction when he stealths: dodge. Often they will follow up with a MOA or a Blurred Frenzy (which makes them immune to damage when they finally appear trolol).

You should have plenty defense with shield and tool kit right? You can use those to nullify the somewhat obvious damage attempts that a mesmer does. And i assume you have Kit Refinement as well? I’d seriously hammer that ToolKit, keeping nails up everywhere will affect him even when he stealths, as well as all their phantasms. Pre-emptive jumpbacks are awesome too.

Also flamethrower and elixir gun should be nice right. FT along with maybe pistol 3 to get the clones down, Fumigate to get the poison on as he gets low and tries to heal/stealth. When you are confident you have the real one then use some mobility skill towards him if needed, knockback him with one of your many options, and dump all conditions into him. You must have some sort of pressure/punishment in your build or he will simply wear you down. I guess you can put fairly nice CC chains on him.
I think your Toolkit Pull is really usefull against them as well. Pull em into Nails, quick Toolkit #3 then start your chain. You should have nice confuses at least, and lots of aoe dmg with FT and EG. The real one will probably dodge out of those quickly. You can use them, circle around, and see where he is by looking at the numbers as well! If numbers start appearing in thin air, there’s your man ; )

If its the conditions that kill you, you should be good with an elixir gun and kit refinement. You can also get the healing turret which removes all conditions. Basically make him fear coming out of stealth by immediatly stunning him a few times and blowing most of your stuff, then reverting to defensive play when it is his turn to attack or you are getting swarmed by minions. Just using elixir 4 smartly can mitigate a lot of damage while giving you time to heal up, seeing as your free spammable Box of Nails is now slowing everything.

Its happening seriously often for me. Every other death. And im so close to rank 30 FFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Ok who was the guy that voted ele as most OP? You head to the principles office right now young man!

oh no, someone on the forums threatened me! I have to go cry now!

an exploit, by definition, is when you find a beneficial, but unintended side effect from something. If you honestly believe that this near-invulnerability was intended, if you honestly believe that Arenanet sat down and said “Lets allow the thieves to never take damage as long as they do this, this and this” then yes, you are correct. But if you have even the shred of common sense to think “Oh wait, there’s no way this is right” then yes, this is an exploit.

Classic exploit vs clever use of game mechanics discussion. People will always use that which suits them best.

We should describe this issue as ‘overpowered’ instead. You’d got more of both sides to agree on this i’d say.

Working as intended, balance is pretty good atm ololo

Except for whirlpool ofcourse. That was far lamer underwater and deserved 33% nerf way more kekek

Rocket boots can also be used if your rifle overcharge puts you in a bad spot. Instead of laying there taking hits, you can immediatly blast yourself away again. I also dont find the self-knockback that much of an issue when used together with stealth. Dont forget it also has half the cd of slick shoes. For your build and WvW i wouldnt hold it against you if using Slick Shoes though.

MrSilver.5269:

My problem is that I’m so addicted to double speed from slick shoes that I don’t think I could live without it. I consider double speed to be a must have for wvw.

Lol i know right. This is part of why i dont feel like using slick shoes. Im already addicted to speedy kits!

Seeing as you dont have Rocket Boots and use Rifle, i’d say you’re better off with the blind on crit trait. Then again i guess that isnt as good in WvW. I dont play that at all but it looks like bomb dispenser could mitigate a lot of damage in there. Also any ally that shoots through the smoke combo field will get blind effect on their attacks which could help you out as well.
Try slotting Rocket Boots and see how you like to blow yourself away from the zerg while stealthed so noone knows where you went.

stealth bomber engi

Incredibly fun to play, has 4 blast finishers, aoe stealth every 20 seconds, and an amazing amount of fun combinations between abilities. Doesnt use Grenades or Elixirs!
http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#ccMzM9moNlTMM0FRMxG0aacRaoRoo8070m7kIa70z7kNL70c
Its strength is the 20 second cd aoe stealth and sudden aoe dmg that applies burning, confusion, and poison which last a very long time. Along with awesome group support and good resses. Using a shamans amulet with a 125cond/pwr/vit gem.

Smoke bomb > Blow up heal turret > run to target or crowded point with swiftness and stealth > lay down all bombs > pistol 3 > Fumigate > shield 5 > rocket kick > ulti > smoke bomb > shield 4.

-Smoke bomb > blow up turret + rocket boots > never die again.
-Elixir gun cripple > elixir gun 4 > rocket boots > instant kiting.
-Smoke bomb > turret > blow up turret while ressing + big ol’bomb while ressing + shield skill 4 for knockback and stealth res.
-Heal turret toolbelt > shield 4 > aoe heal on your knockback.
-Hearseeker spammer? Shield 5 > rocket kick > smoke bomb > shield 4 > lay bombs > pistol 3 > watch him kill himself by spamming skills > fumigate as he tries to stealth > laugh as his body dissolves.
-Drop big Ol’bomb right before you die, downed 2, downed 3. Triple downed interrupt.

Hp is low but you can easily get around it with your toughness and elixir gun andclever use of blast finishers which gives a lot of breathing space every 20 seconds. No kit refinement because it can proc crap short retaliation when i want stealth tho the on demand-while-cc’d-or-stealthed condition removal is nice. Fun for stomping necros which is a class that gives this build a relatively tough fight. Luckily you can overcharge healing turret and clear all conditions before bombing, along with elixir gun curing all kinds of stuff.

Weak when the short cast times on stealth gets interrupted which is why i took 10 in alch also for the retal for even more aoe dmg. Some of the trait choices have to do with many others being bugged. 10%more speed in combat from 20 inventions also synergises well with the build. Autodefense Bomb Dispenser is actually not bad cause you can get it to proc in the middle of a fight due to starting in stealth, doing repeated aoe blinds and allowing you to immediatly proc stealth with rocket boots.

Using quick fingers you can catch people completely off guard, and your allies will love you for saving their lifes so many many times.

After that we’ll talk about another new feature – custom arenas.

Shut up and take all my money!

Oh just tell me if we’ll also get smaller bracket arena’s first.

This happened before to me. Removing my gw2 folder in ‘my documents’ fixed it. Came back on this patch and not even reinstalling gw2 worked. Game is unplayable in pvp at the moment.

reroll engineer, throw bombs and lay down turrets, ANet obviously think its balanced lol

Oh god.
>shoot net
>swim up to target
>overcharge turrets
>nuke crazy burst with harpoon 2 and 4 and double toolbelt insta 1200 range nukes
>get a kill (yes its that easy)
>get bomb kit and drop burn/confusion/stealth/knockbacks all over point
>get many more kills

>use tornado
> kitten people off with knockback
>they focus you
>die

Theres a 9 second cd on it but it does work.

You can also get the one that has a chance to give might on crit, it has no cooldown, unless a cooldown on a (weapon proc) sigil gets triggered.

Lol this is insane. I understand you wanna fix bugs, but why are they all negative. Thats ok but on repeated patches? Where we also get nerfs? My ele gets weaker every patch!

I understand the position they’re in wanting to fix bugs and crazy dmg abilities and all, but they dont seem to take into effect the current classes strength. Which makes it feel like a slap in the face. Does that once in a blue moon whirlpool damage really effects games more than a 10 second aoe quickness? The order of nerfs and bugfixes seems really off.

Oh good some of the easiest mechanics in the game got a few little nerfs. This is a good step to making all classes a bit more involving to play.

But surely retal/thief dmg/mesmer phantasm output wasnt too high. Arenanet just listened to the qq’ers and nothing else! Lets whine about elementalists, surely they would get massive nerfs next patch! That’d be so fun as we can clearly get anything implemented as long as we cry hard enough right? Nothing in this super perfect awesome game can possibly be OP or way too easy to play!

shalmont.2539:

seems to go fast if you are constantly tourneying, though it does get slower every bracket….

I always figured that repeated 5 minute wait would be a huge waste of time.

Its a pretty amazing grind. I’m now 25, but my glory gain is much higher now that i no longer take my ele to 8v8. Instead i take an engi who has balanced stats, good heals, and plenty aoe conditions and explosions. Get credits for all kills while keeping team up.

You pretty much need to consistently get good scores. By the time you need 7.5-15k glory per rank, you’ll get nowhere getting just 50 glory from a match. So i can sort of understand people rolling OP stuff, as the difference can be pretty big and probably saves you craploads of time in the end. And the total glory required seems to be balanced around playing multiple classes..to avoid boredom at least. Most classes are not that attractive to me and you can only respec through the tiny amount of specs so many times.

Perhaps you can try farming glory with a (guild) friend. This way you can both focus on supporting eachother while stomping/ressing and get higher scores than you normally would. Getting good stomping utilities can be a valid tactic. It’ll also be less boring and you can try making good synergy over time together which is fun. For instance, i’ve always wanted to try an Ele with Churning Earth, then getting a thief friend to stealth me. I guess theres a ton of cool things you can try out, not even mentioning combo fields for giving eachother massive retaliation/stealth buffs and so on.

And yeah medium armor looks the least impressive of all, i agree. Im just wearing Pirate gear with purple and green dyes so i can at least look pimp in the Mists. But when the bucket of green/blue paint falls on you, most leather looks kinda crap.

1 single auto attack will put the downed 4 heal on cooldown. And you can knockback downed people off of the point. And only a few classes can port back to the point.

I think it speaks volumes when people want to keep Downed, but get an ability to kill yourself in Downed. Also its clearly not working as intended, my guess is keeping people in Downed is supposed to be more of a danger. Right now the risk vs reward aint really up to par to just keeping people alive after you..kill them.

Double hp pools? That isnt very well thought out. Ele’s would get an extra 10k while warriors get an extra what, 20k? I’d rather have AN fix the biggest offenders first.

Even WoW had the sense to remove Bloodlust from Arenas, which gave ‘only’ 30% haste and was availiable on only one class at that time. Yes, even Blizzard the Faceroll With PvE Gear in PvP company, made this change just for pvp. Before you ignore this and rage at me saying WoW sucks or ‘go play that if u liek it more lol’, read it again.

It isnt exciting when quickness gets popped, the drawbacks dont make up for the insane benefit, and it isnt fun when a large amount of fights is focused on ‘wasting’ the other persons quickness.

I do think scepter could use some work too. Dragons tooth goes without saying, so does fire grab. Few of them can be made easier to hit without relying on stuff like Signet of Earth or luck.

Also why are all aura’s on daggers? Or am i wrong? I believe my S/D ele had just one aura which was on off hand dagger water. This sort of limits the already small amount of builds you can make. Gief scepter an aura?
I kinda like OH dagger save for RTL bugging out ofcourse.

A bad player relies on armchair psychology to defend his broken mechanics on the forums.

A good player brings forth his opinion on various issues that he may or may not see as a detriment to the quality of the game.

What are you?

Aether McLoud.1975:

@dimyzuka: Condition spammers are hard counters for low health high toughness/healing tank eles.

Ele has amazing condition removal in that spec though. Especially when a certain bug gets fixed on staff.

I think we should be more happy that they are looking at eles. Im pretty sure they had a vision for elementalists and also pretty sure that the tank heal ele isnt anywhere near what they had in mind. They arent stupid, they will notice it when people are feeling forced to use something that neither Arenanet or the Players had in mind when they created their ele’s. They’ve even posted on our class forums that at least Main Hand Dagger needs some help.

At least we know that they know something’s wrong with the class.

If we get arenas, the last thing i’d want is for it to use pve gear.

I see where you’re coming from, but we do have WvW. And i dont want them to work on extra pvp modes that use pve gear. Rather have them work on those arenas that use gear from glory.

Awesome! i lol’d. inb4 remove? Love how ele is pictured as a blind man with a seeing eye dog. And the ‘totally not paladin’ was good too.

Oh and ele USED to be god tier, he’s refering to the Beta Weekends. Right before release they got hit hard by a massive nerfstick, RIGHT IN THE KISSER RIGHT IN THE KISSER

‘legends say that once a warrior who used 4 buttons’ hahah

It’s definatly annoying. But its too late to remove mesmer or ranger or necro pets. We can at least remove those kittening rock dogs.

Sometimes i just look at a Graveyard zerg from high up, both laughing and crying at the same time.

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

There is venom control support, pistol whip roamer, D/D condition and people whine about Backstab builds? hahaha oh kitten didn’t know there are so many bad PvP’ers in GW2. Backstab build is a joke in any serious sPvP/tPvP.

-defending boring, lame, old, one shot from stealth mechanics by saying nobody uses it anyway

BACKSTAB IS SO FINE NOW, amazing. People are just typing crap without thinking of what the other persons argument is.

Anyway the whole thief class is pretty much filled with lame stuff. How cool was heartseeker spam? How awesome is it to roll your face on Deathblossom instead? They are fundamentally flawed because their abilities do far too much at once, while the broken initiative allows them to squeeze every bit of overpowered from these abilities in rapid succession.

Not to mention they can stealth waaaay more than in other MMO’s. Allowing them to safely get even more initiative and then to just resume spamming. (bugged) stealth, horrible initative mechanic, and dodging while attacking is probably the dumbest thing i’ve ever seen in a game. Did arenanet think all this stealth was what people where waiting for in a skill based MMO? Free dodging/immunite while attacking? Lets give em quickness too!!!1
Why would you NOT want your horrible class fixed to take an inch of thought? How the hell can you play this class like this if not for making pubstomp videos in 8v8.

And yes they are OP in tournaments as well, we all know it.

Kalar Meadia.8439:

And if you’re getting hit by the predictable damage from Phantasms, and not properly clearning them, you’re bad yourself.

Every phantasm summon, without exception, has a cast time, has a motion.

Duuuuude come on are you still trying thís hard to keep mesmers how they are?
I thought i’d have more fun reading about the scared mesmers and guardians in this thread but this kitten is just sad.

kabaal.1832:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Oh ya, wanted to add: yes, we’re watching Mesmers, bunker Guardians and tank heal Ele’s. Forgot to add that.

Ouch, tank ele is the only worthwhile spec they have. I hope you look at improving them elsewhere before nerfing it.

All eles could stand to do a little more damage, and holy crap is the tank heal ele one of them. They also arent that much different from the Holy Trinity Healer which Anet doesnt want in their game.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Sup.

K bye

Oh ya, wanted to add: yes, we’re watching Mesmers, bunker Guardians and tank heal Ele’s. Forgot to add that.

Nvm that lets stay together forever.

Yeah i guess it was intentional..At least there are traits and sigils scattered everywhere that proc when critting, so the precision is never totally wasted on those condition/precision amulets. Makes sense as Toughness is considered as (one of) the best stats.

I dont care that aoe quickness and aoe stealth are even more crazy. Those are also amazing arguments btw, kek.

10sec CC just feels archaic, like some mmo from 2004. Looking at most other spells in the game they have much shorter CC effects, only cripple coming close in duration which is still at most 50% as long in most cases. This is one of the reasons why we like this game over the other mmo’s! Imagine the whines if people had access to 10 second immobilizes which you cant even remove. Actually im sure elementalists would LOVE that and apperantly its totally fair. As it is right now they would jump a hole through the roof if they could just use a simple utility skill in their elite slot instead.
It stands out like a sore thumb, this moa spell.

insert other mesmer elite whines for good measure

Kimbald.2697:

Where are the engineers in all of this?

I don’t find my downstate abilities very usefull. Is that me, or aren’t they…?

No one even mentions engineers in this whole post, which sort of got me worried.

ummm

You get a single target knockdown while getting stomped, with an aoe knockback that is better than most other classes downed 3. For instance, i dont really care much when thiefs use their 3, as i’ll just aoe them down on the spot while they’re invis.

And you can also kind of res yourself lol. I think my engis downed’s are more than fine.

Problem 8v8 scrubs?

This isnt arenajunkies, people are simply stating and discussing their opinions. You will get infracted seriously fast if you keep trying to act so cool in most of your posts (and failing at it). I’ve been getting infracted a lot and i’m nowhere near an kitten like you, just so you know.

Derps.7421:

Mesmer down state. Want to know the secret? The real downed mesmer has the skull still over his head. It’s not so OP now is it.

zomg what an amazing tip, i didnt know that, thank you so much for your helpful posts!!

Here’s something you dont know: phantasms and illusions keep attacking 3-4k while the mesmer is downed.

We’re learning so much today.

Kimbald.2697:

GankSinatra.2653:

Kimbald.2697:

Not so much different from WoW…

; )

Also, the point of 50% more endurance regen is that if you also pick vigor boon…woah nelly

no idea what you just said, but back in the game to check…sounds like a dodging dance, am i right?

Yes you will dodge a crapload, its something i used on my ele and it probably amounts to the same amount of dodges on engi. Vigor boons + trait. Ele gets vigor from mainhand dagger fire but engi can trait for it somewhere. Gives like swiftness and vigor both. Its fun at the least.

Kimbald.2697:

Not so much different from WoW…

; )

Also, the point of 50% more endurance regen is that if you also pick vigor boon trait…woah nelly

so the counter to them is beeing countered by them.

counter to them = burst
being countered by them = retal
them = guardians

A condition necro can kill a bunker guardian 1v1.
A bunker mesmer can kill a bunker guardian 1v1.

Can kill. But will he have the time? Before backup arrives and his 1v1 advantage is nullified because it is no longer 1v1? Seeing as you use 1v1 argument when it is instead 2v2 in this and most cases.

Yes i actually did get the chest Jon muchos gracias
Though it took about a day, but thats okay

Cant edit..
And the Always Prepared will drop a flamethrower, which gives a knockback. So when you get downed you can pull back 1 person, an ally on your team gets healed while he picks the Flamethrower and knocks away, then hopefully your aoe knockback will be up.

I guess thats why..but it does appear a bit underwhelming.

I believe that strafing, and then pressing both mouse buttons so you ‘move forward’ keeps the Swiftness. You’ll be moving more in a circular motion but you can adjust it as you go and keeps your fingers for your binds. I hope im not wrong.

I have developed a phobia for purple and that little butterfly on my Windows7 Wallpaper.

marianitten.1247:

336862

Check what nr ability they are. Check how long it takes for Mist form to come up, and your fear to come up.
I understand your confusion, as nobody plays ele in 8v8.

The CD is not the problem. If you have the skill ready, and you are downed by 2 enemies.
.

Im sorry but i cant make it any clearer than that. If you dont think the cooldown matters when it most certainly does, i dont know what to tell you.

I also already agreed with you if you would read more carefully.
You’re a bit…. i’ll just leave this thread now. Just got my posting priviliges back : D

hackks.3687:

Thief and Mesmer downed state aren’t really all that either. They do basically what all downed states should do. Buy you a little time.

Thats a good point actually. The problem is that it doesnt fit to give everyone a teleport. Even though i think that’d be the best and most fun solution. I think knockbacks are a little too lame, so are self resses (engis can do this too), and that necro’s single target and ele’s nothingatall.jpg needs to affect multiple people like teleports and knockbacks do.

marianitten.1247:

Sanis.1096:

really… elementalist… ELEMENTALIST… they have the worst downstate E V E R… you could have picked like mesmer or thief

Vapor Form -> Assume a mobile, vaporous form, returning to a downed state when the effect ends.

That may save your life if you are attacked by 2 or more enemies.

But we have:

Fear > Make your foe flee in fear.

One fear, to one foe. You are still exposed anyway. There is no way you could survive more than 1 attack.

If Ele have the worst downed stated.. idk what we have.

Check what nr ability they are. Check how long it takes for Mist form to come up, and your fear to come up.

I understand your confusion, as nobody plays ele in 8v8. And neither did you..

Random rallies at the last second seriously kitten me off, its the most anticlimactic mechanic in existance like omygod i just beat him and now im dying with no way to stop him why is this happening just because some heartseeker spammer ally glass cannon died instantly i want my glory so bad and now this happens i cant stand this anymore seriously.

Personally i want it removed..as it causes some weird and sometimes simply unfair situations and its wildly imbalanced between classes, in most cases a good downed only adding to an already strong class. But i guess its an anti-burst mechanic so it isnt going anywhere. I LOVE it in PvE.

Btw Ele has the worst downed, we’d choose a 1 person fear over what we have now trust me dude. But about everyone having the same downed abilities, im all for that for the sake of balance. Even though i’d rather just have it be gone.

oh and wtf quickness while stomping just no guys, NO. Bad Arenanet!

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

I think the problem some people (not me i don’t care about skins i just play for fun) are having is with the reword system. As soon as you hit the next tier of rank, you burn through tens of thousands of Glory buying Chests and get all the gear from that rank range in the first hour of hitting that rank (10,20,30,…). Then you have nothing to look forward to until you get another 10 ranks. This just gets worse the higher in rank you are as it takes way longer to hit the next tier. For people that like getting rewards this can feel very boring and repetitive.

I think this post deserves some extra notice. Theres no point in repeating him if i can just quote. Also, change the mandatory blue/red armor in pvp. It pretty much defeats the entire purpose of the items, because be honest, nobody wants to be blue.

I feel that the focus on zerging also increases the feeling of pvp being an uninteresting grind. Every fight feels different if the numbers are smaller. A fight against a thief and ele is nothing like a fight against a Guardian and Engi. Whereass a big blob of people and summoned creatures always feels like the same thing: a zerg, a mindless mob of pitchfork wielding peasants.
Yes, tpvp has this, but sometimes i just feel like grinding (superior amounts of) glory in a non-stressfull or competative environment. There’s no reason for this part to be so inferior to tournaments. Not to mention its most likely whats played by most of pvp players thus, and even if this isnt true, a rather big part of the game. It shouldnt be ignored and dismissed as just a noobville.

I never ever do WvW so i completely forgot about that lol. Its a fair point even if many people dont personally enjoy WvW.

And i appreciate the ‘work in progress’ feel of your post. As personally i feel there are certain mechanics that are more disruptive to your goal than a bit more toughness here and there. Its unfortunate that people are quitting over this..but its what’s best for the game. Maybe we’re better off without them (bye little bro).

Cheers for the Amulet part, guess we’ll be sticking to those instead of adding rings and such. Good to know! Oh I would like to suggest to add some more amulet combinations already.. I believe that Condition users have inferior choices to others. Maybe this is intentional, but its weird not seeing certain obvious combination over precision+condition Amulets.

More to give an illusion of progression, and an illusion of choice.
Not that i really want stat differences, no matter how small, but its just an idea that popped in my head as i read this thread.
Because tbh, i hear way more whining about not getting stats when ranking up than i should.

And yeah Disconnected, i mainly thought of it as an addition for an expansion. Thinking of how they might eventually add different items, and if they will, im guessing this is how, right? Adding more incentive to play does not necessarily have to be a bad thing when done right.

Watching a warrior whos first move is ALWAYS 100b, charging headfirst into a big zerg of blood- and glorythirsty madmen and getting blown up as i dodge it. Ohwait..that makes me feel really good.

I feel bad for elems when they try so hard to survive but end up chaining every utility slot cantrip they have. And i always whine for them when RTL bugs out and i blow em up, but maybe thats because my first class was an ele. Poor, delicious elementalists.

Would you guys mind if there are eventually rings added, some for free, but some with a required rank? Not giving more stats, but being like Amulets, giving different stats that work best for your build. Same thing with a few other items mayhaps.

Daays.4317:

#1. Change your build. No viable ranger build uses GS
#2. Get a shortbow
#3. 1 so hard
#4. Die to retal
#5. Come to GW2 forums and post threads

<3

What you do is leave the match and instantly join another one.

Oh and pray that you dont end up with 4 mesmers instead.

You guys dont like toolkit?

I saw it and thought it would be a pretty nice kit.

You can block those lame kitten heartseeker spam thiefs sooo easily. When they stealth just press 4 and watch those thiefs blasting all their initiative.

I saw that pull (#5) and thought it’d be sweet for interrupting stomps from a safe distance. To grab an overly obvious 100b warrior away from my ele ally. To set up for that monster truck #3. Or to pull people away as they wanna jump into the Raid on the Capricorn water evil laugh Sometimes i start with it before a teamfight in 8v8 (keeping #4 ready if kitten hits the fan) which basically drags an enemy into your zerg resulting in instant death. Although im usually hunted by this person for the rest of the match, haha. But yeah im inclined to admit it needs a shorter cast or longer range.

You also get to throw that wrench in a straight line with toolbelt which actually does pretty sweet burst especially with that lightning bolt trait. Nice synergy with rifle knockback too. Which you can also trait to cripple for 5 secs, same as your #1, used with #5 its awesome for killing fleeing enemies.

The #2 has a really long cast, usually not being worth the time to cast as a glass cannon..but it can be traited to drop the caltrips instantly, with a shorter cooldown, on switching to this kit. You can also put them down THEN pull somebody to you. I mostly use it while turning around a corner, both to mitigate some damage during the long cast but also to pretty much snare anyone that follows me..

Was i wrong? It really does suck? Not just compared to Grenades or Bomb kits due to their crazy damage/conditions?