Guild Wars 2

It’s ok, when Backstab is nerfed they’ll actually have to use more buttons to fight.

Deathblossom, Deathblossom, Deathblossom, Dodge, Dodge, Stealth, Deathblossom, Deathblossom.

As you can see its fortunate Thiefs are so amazingly well designed at their very core that they can easily recover from any nerfs by adapting to another intricite gameplay strategy and twitchy rotation.

Vile.5678:

Chakuna.6325:

Vile.5678:

. Like you said, it adds an element of strategy, which is not fun for YOU.

You’ll find that more people want it removed, rather than revamped/tweaked or left alone.

The downstate is directly related to death/losing.

How is that? If i die 10 times or kill someone 10 times, there is still the downed state 10 times. You actually make even less sense than that because in other games when you drop to 0% hp you DIE, in this game you get another chance or can at least stall a little. Which should make ‘death/losing’ less frustrating.

Fynd.4890:

Prince.3682:

No I think payne is right on this one – definitely nerf clusterbombs. Good call payne.

Thanks for the great idea, Payne; makes sense considering that Cluster Bomb hits harder than any ability both Rangers’ bows can put out, and it can hit twice, and it has no cooldown)))))))))))))))))).

I like how clusterbomb even completely nullifies ressing. It does more damage than a res does in healing, in aoe. From range. And spammable.

I fought this Ranger 1v1 the other day. He took out maybe 20% of my hp before i downed him. I ran over to stomp. He did Lightning/Pet Howl/Pet Stun. By the time i stomped him, i was at about 20% of my hp left. The dude did around quadruple the amount of damage in downed than when alive. How could you design something like this? Is this not totally broken?

Now lets talk about the fun of downed state. I mean, Anet cant balance damage so they put in another system that they cant balance either, fine, i guess thats a super great idea. But how fun is it?
Why do i need to watch and wait for that animation every kitten time? Why am i forced to play that boring cat and mouse minigame. Why did i rally against the guy that owned me right before that stomp because a thief facerolled his face 100 yards off in the distance and got a kill? Why do classes with many forms of stealth and stability end up as amazing stompers, are they balanced around this?

Why is it so anticlimactic to kill people? Enemies never see like they’re hurting, im flinging fire, summoning diseases inside your kitten and stabbing people in their eyes yet when that little bar runs out they are magically healed and poof fine again. There is never any release of excitement thus usually no buildup either, when you ‘kill’ somebody it actually doesnt mean much as there is still so much that can happen, all your work can be undone by a bubbled monkey running to the downed player who presses 2 buttons. And why does it take 50 sword hits to kill a downed yet only 1 FLAG? Why dont we all just run around with flags then?

Why do we need to do a 2 button Polymock battle whenever we beat somebody? It just kills the fun and drags out what should be fast paced action with a boring, repeated, anticlimactic funmongering mechanic that you cant balance because you cant balance even more things.

The guy specs full survivability BECAUSE of you thiefs, because as a glass cannon an ele walks around with 10k hp, and now thiefs are fine because you cant solo kill the guy who specs to counter you?

This aint even skill, this is build vs build. Build Wars 2.

Archaon.6245:

The problem is that there will be always people complaining about something…

Ever wondered why nobody cries about say necros and rangers? Always thiefs?

What you’re implying is that if everyone in prison yells ‘im innocent!’, all of them have to be lying.

Arenanet, make a Bard class just for OP.

I truly feel that whoever designed such a spammable mess of a class should just be fired. I would eat my pirate hat if its the same person as the one who made elementalists or necromancers. Whoever made such a class with mechanics that allow spammability and burst that no other class has must have been some Call of Duty ‘pro’ who has 0 MMO experience and got to design a class because its the main developers little nephew. Thiefs are hands down about the worst designed class or job or profession that i have seen in any recent MMO and they just dont fit in with a game where everything is about ability cooldown tracking and countering. Its just emberassing and sad, Thief Dev you should be ashamed and go play counterstrike instead.

Lose game

Get 4x the score

On the other hand, a single person cant really affect the game enough to turn it into a win. You will also be joining a lot of games late, which are usually a loss. We cant make winning too important either or glory gain will become a dice roll. And imagine the masses of extra leavers when this will be the situation, the auto balance would drive me insane. People would AFK at the start point if they just joined from the NPC, as every such game would be a loss and thus a waste of time. Not to mention the botters.

If you like to be a bunker spec that doesnt die and enjoy standing still on a circle, there are plenty of tournament teams that would like to have you. You can be rewarded for speccing easy near-immortality in there to your hearts’ content. With even better rewards than in hotjoin.

I mean how awesome is it if a team gets destroyed at each pvp fight then ends up winning just cause they killed a pve lord or last hitted a pve creep. I dont think such things should award massive amounts of glory. At the current system, you can at least keep a good steady amount of glory going by consistantly playing well. This is a rather tough yet delicate issue if you think about it and not as clear cut as most of you make it out to be.

Duelling isnt just so people can whine about 1v1 balance on the forums. It will also provide some much needed pvp variety, a way to hang out with friends, and it has a community building aspect to it as well. People can get to know eachother, newbies can watch the pro players in action. The Mists doesnt need to be a ghost town.

Sometimes i like to act as an NPC by using the 2 clone utility thing then spamming Greatsword auto attack. So fun when people just ran past you or turn around going ‘kitten that’.

Kerishan.8460:

GankSinatra.2653:

Craft tier 1 items from orbs. If they are capable of critting (dolyak can, wolf cant) you can get a tier 2 item from tier 1 mats, which can give you crystals when salvaged if you’re lucky.

Of course.

Haha, yeah. I made 3 crystals with the 5th item i made like this, now im 40 items later and havent gotten another yet.

Craft tier 1 items from orbs. If they are capable of critting (dolyak can, wolf cant) you can get a tier 2 item from tier 1 mats, which can give you crystals when salvaged if you’re lucky.

Above rank 29 it will take 15k glory per rank, rank 39 is 45k glory. As you can see you will end up with far more than you need. I spent about 40k glory at rank 30 to gear up all my chars, while i had 100k saved up. So yeah, i dont know what to do with glory.

Make Dolyak gear and salvage it to turn orbs into crystals i guess. You can make some glory boosters that way.

MarkedOne.1309:

It is not an exploit. It is game mechanic.

With those kind of arguments, you’ve got to be right.

Animosity.5231:

The more people there are, the less pressure each individual has to play top-notch. 8v8 isn’t meant for competitiveness, it’s meant for players to get their feet wet in PvP without being raged at for screwing up.

Well yeah but, who really cares about winning in a hotjoin? I dont think i’ve ever seen people rage at eachother for losing a random 2v2. Im pretty sure you have Anet’s reasoning spot on, but it still doesnt make much sense. At least not enough sense to not include hotjoin 5v5 for those who wish to play that.

Something like this OP?

Couldnt you get a friend and test this in an empty server? Sure you wont see a number with your dps but you can see the difference when using toughness and between classes A and B.

Also pvp players dont care about dps meters because you simply wont often be standing still doing your best dmg rotation. Moving or dodging will reduce your dps and its more about burst in pvp. Maybe you want a ‘dmg done’ statistic at the end? That’d be cool.

The reason I didn’t become revealed when I shot my arrows is because you dodged and blocked them all.

No its because you cant read and want to keep your THIEF e-fame intact or something.

Makes you wonder if it has to do with blocks/dodges/misses/evades.

If you watch the slowmo, you get “miss” “block” “evade” then he hits you and at that time is revealed instantly.

No. I dont see why there is still this confusion about this. You can easily test it. Spam TAB after a thief stealths, and you can target his invisible body which is walking around, seeing only a red arrow. This state takes about 2-3 seconds which makes stealth last about twice as long as it should..

Anyway about time it got fixed. It was about the dumbest things i’ve ever seen in a competative game. Thanks.

Engi? Seems like a good cross between bunker and dmg is possible there.

Otherwise maybe a necro. They can be fun.

ryston.7640:

16) Kittens

Ok that got me.

Agree on most your points except the second part of #9 and #7. Imagine a Bunker with a healer on his kitten Or how amazing stealth + heals would be. I will pass on that.

Why is it always the people that excuse themselves for their bad english who then end up talking it more than fine.

Developers?

And there are going to be changes to underwater combat. Also there is a pve team and a pvp team.. Some things are split, like confusion.

If thats your design goals then Thiefs need far lower damage if they are supposed to be slippery and get stealths regens and spammable teleports. Necros should get better chasing options. The actual hard CC needs to be usable more than every 40 seconds. And should not be so reliable on horrible travel times and target tracking.

TAB doesnt even seem to target the nearest player. To me it seems like the second press of TAB does this. Weird..

Mouse targetting also feels a little weird. If my target moves a tiny bit often the whole targetting thing will miss. In a big fight it seems that its best to mouse target a bit above your enemy, above where his name is. Dont know if other people get this but im often a bit frustrated at the targetting in this game. Never had this with other MMO’s.

I hope they fix the skirmish zones in it as well. It doesn’t seem to matter where you kill someone, you never get skirmish bonus.

Just wanted to post about this. Something weird going on in that map. Maybe its related to the water (and its edges)? Add in people jumping into the water to escape and the whole map just feels like a waste of time.

I thought of this.

More chance to meet more and different classes at once? Which is better practice as you will quickly have all classes to practice against?

Obviously 8v8 is higher Glory than 5v5 so that might also have something to do with it. Tournaments already gives the extra chests which reward you with Glory, and even got bumped up in these rewards earlier. People should consider whether they want their Glory reduced in this hotjoin game mode. Why not let us choose what we join? 5v5 or 8v8.

Perhaps they feel that 8v8 is less personal and intimidating than 5v5 where your individual skill matters a tad more. Maybe its meant as sort of a cross between WvW and Tournaments? I dunno, i just think it couldnt hurt to just put the option of 5v5 hotjoin in the game.

I’ve used Portals before but i simply felt too dirty. I mean seriously. Seriously Arena net. Just no.

Arheundel.6451:

ShiftSide.3645:

Too bad quote doesnt exactly work, but meh:
“Just wanted you guys to know we’re looking at this specifically right now. We will probably bring down the raw spike DPS for some builds, but we’ll be careful to increase other areas to compensate.”
So they might nerf Thief, and then buff their lacking areas to compensate for this. So they could nerf the thief’s burst, but buff our health pool, which is the lowest.
At the end of the day, the question remains, how will people who cry about thieves without learning how to beat them, beat the good thieves that will continue to play because they love the class, and not because it’s FOTM? I myself will always play a thief, even if it’s the lowest on the totem pole because I enjoy the playstyle, as I did with Deception Assassin in SW:TOR. What excuse will you have when the thieves relearn their class and still beat you then?

Learning how to beat a thief isn’t always the case. I just logged off, nerd raging because a thief killed me in less than 2 seconds in spvp on my mesmer. There is no learning curve there. i couldn’t even perform an action before i was downed. Thats not fun for me and although I could imagine how it would be amusing at first for a thief, it would get old quickly, I’d assume.

LOL! A mesmer complaining about thieves ^^, now I’ve seen everything on this forum, between fightning 2 thieves and a mesmer..I prefer the 2 thieves as they’re by far less OP than mesmers, as a matter of fact I’d prefer Anet to leave thieves alone and rather nerf that absurd shatter build which deal unavoidable 12-16k dmg every 8-10s on top of 6-8 stack of confusion-bleeding-vulnerability

By the way :" MESMER SHATTER BUILD NERF INCOMING" Ohh kitten YEA!! About kittening time!

Lol you are so full of kitten : p

Dont get me wrong Mesmers are OP as kitten, i have one, i know. But if they really do all that you’re saying, the guy has specced 30-30-30-30-30 and he never keeps any clones or spells for survivability and you should be able to nuke him down with focus fire. Their burst is also much much easier to see coming than a thief and certainly does less.

You fight 2 thiefs, i’ll fight that 1 mesmer tyvm.

Kneru.8014:

At the end of the day, the question remains, how will people who cry about thieves without learning how to beat them, beat the good thieves that will continue to play because they love the class, and not because it’s FOTM? I myself will always play a thief, even if it’s the lowest on the totem pole because I enjoy the playstyle, as I did with Deception Assassin in SW:TOR. What excuse will you have when the thieves relearn their class and still beat you then?

My question is how many FOTM will reroll away from thieves when they can no longer use the same few buttons to beat each different class.

Also dont be silly. The excuse we all want to say is ‘i got outplayed’. Thats the whole current issue. Thieves wont outplay you, but they will often beat you. Inb4 duelling theorycraft. Not talking fake imaginary duels.

Rythgar.2896:

For example, I am a point defender guardian and sure I can outlive one or two good players, but just for a limited time, and I will not be close to killing either one of them, not even a glass cannon to be honest.

Wow that sounds amazingly fun man. ’It’s ok, we are standing around on a circle not killing eachother’.

/sarcasm

I am rather happy with how the tPvP is at the moment. It Really gives the feeling that it actually is the teamwork and the skill of the team players that matter, not necessarily the composition/builds.

And then you put this after. lol. I know what you mean, but yeah. If you werent a bunker in that earlier example than the fight would have been COMPLETELY different, you would not have been tanking 2 glass cannons that long no matter what your skill is, so yeah its first and foremost about composition/builds.

Did the Christmas event start early?

Cant wait. Thanks for the update.

I’m sure the thieves will like getting some survivability somewhere else sometime without having to spam death blossom or a bugged stealth. Whatever else happens after will happen. Its not like people will spec less bunker over this in tournaments but it has to be done.

I dont even think the burst type thief /shatter mesmers are thát bad off in the survivability department. Not like an engi and arguably Warrior.

JonPeters.5630:

Live every week like it’s shark week!

Lol im impressed. I like long walks on the beach you know. And long dips in the ocean with a minimal amount of sharks. Catch my…drift?

Yay. Serves them right. I already see enough sharks on Animal Planet.

Another thing that pisses me off is how the water is just used as an escape. Right before death people just jump in praying their pursuer will get bored and give up. Downed state is so drawn out underwater.

Not to poke sticks at Ele’s but kitten its kitten when you down them and they just mist form into the water and can suddenly start moving around again. Oooh first i couldnt even move, but now that im drowning and cant breathe in addition to bleeding out, I GOT THE POWER. Wtf.

Gilgamesh.2561:

Please add it to the tournament rotation.

I rather jump into a pool with sharks

Peechez.4195:

spoiler alert:

Thanks, i better not read the rest then.

By the time you found the real one, i’ve already teleported away, made another clone, or am drilling your face while immune and shattering 3 illusions. Again.
Arent you glad you found me?

You can trait for swords, and get a 2 sec immunity on a 8 second cooldown! 25% immunity uptime (which also doubles as damage if you find me and get close) on a class thats supposed to hurt if you cant confuse your opponent.

Finding the real mesmer is overrated, i am abusing it daily, people quickly catch on not to mention get super bored from all those drawn out mesmer fights, that they rather all grind up against a poor necro with insane tank stats to hump his brains out instead. Who cares about wearing a berserkers if i can go clone/immune/port/stealth/clone/knockback/double clone/immune/distortion/daze etc before you even get to hit me.

Yes i am one that thought mesmers were faceroll so i made one to fight them better. I can probably fight them a little better, but my eyes have opened even more. How Mesmers can stand around saying their class is fine and balanced compared to most others is one of life’s greatest mysteries to me. Actually trying the class out only made it more obvious to me. I am actually trying out different classes and those that are discussed a lot on the forums have every right to be.

16k mind wrack is bullkitten.

Play MOBA’s for actual good multiplayer pvp.

Just wanted you guys to know we’re looking at this specifically right now. We will probably bring down the raw spike DPS for some builds, but we’ll be careful to increase other areas to compensate.

Awesome. Please keep us posted on these kind of things even if they arent ready yet to be discussed more in depth.

I like how Thiefs immediatly come up with the same old childish defenses even right after a post like that made by a dev, haha. puts fingers in ears Just get more toughness! Just dodge! Just roll a thief urself and you’ll see its like superhard to use those 3 buttons!
Even with a dev specifically saying the damage on a specific ability is too high, you guys still blame ‘all the other non thief noob players’ for your mindblowing overpowered damage and mindnumbing easy gameplay.
I just love MMO forums.

They dont want balanced proffesions but only nerf other classes so they can easy kill them

Check this epic example. This is coming from a Thief. He even talks like the typical thief.

I do do tournaments, have done so seriously near the start of the game until my standard group of pvp buddies quit. I still play em, but even back then i just did not feel the whole ‘fighting over a circle’ pvp. Conquest just doesnt get me going as i feel it brings some boring unfun mechanics with it.

If you do, then all the more props to you. If OP likes it, then he should play this game. However pointing out its only conquest without any real matchmaking to a WoW player seemed fair to me.

I prefer good strong changes, at least if none have been done within a couple months, but the degree of bugs in this game makes that priority nr1 for me. Simply because they’ve done a horribly slow job on fixing major bugs so far. Endless loading screens, sure, they fixed that quickly enough, but pretty much every class is rife with bugs. Some making entire abilities and traits useless. Literally. Necro Gluttony trait does nothing.

It was an argument about why there is more fotm in the game…I’ve even said that you dont really get anything for it. Im pointing out differences, not implying whatever you think i am.
Say you wanted a new item in WoW, you played a few hours, and bought it. If you want a new pvp item here, you have to spend up to hundreds of hours. Which then gives you all of the tiers items, and then double or even triples the amount needed for the next tier of items.
As such you would actually be ‘done’ in WoW with gear after a while, afterwards playing against people in the exact same gear (throwing the whole gear imbalance argument out of the window but thats not your point so forget that). At least for a few months until the season reset. In this game, you wont be ‘done’ for years. Not saying its worse than WoW, its just a different system that does feel…slower, and more grindy to me.
Getting stats or not has fairly little to do with it.

Syeria.4812:

The worst thing Anet can do is get top end players together and use their suggestions/complaints as the basis for balance. Players have more bias than knowledge, and making adjustments based on those behaviors just sets up a “chase the imbalance” metagame where the flavor of the week build is always meaningfully overpowered.

Thats also what i immediatly thought, but Arenanet should have the last word about any changes, and they should have the sense to realise a mesmer shouldnt be asking for 2 more max illusions.

I dont see why you cant just install it and try it. Its cool for burning an hour or 2 a day. However, and i might get some flack for this, i dont think the game is serious enough to be played seriously. At least not for me. And my friends.

Luckily you keep any glory you make forever, on all of your characters, which is what keeps me playing from time to time. WoW has had enough chances from me so thats out of the question, so i’ll just play little bits to at least get some glory going, then play for real when the game actually makes me want to play it seriously.

At least it was cool at the start.

There’s no actual proof of this info, but someone on reddit claims that Jon Peters stated they are working on a GLICKO based rating system.

http://www.reddit.com/r/gw2esports/comments/126sb8/jon_peters_confirms_that_glicko_will_be_the/

Hopefully this is true and is something that is very close to being done.

Now why in gods name can they say these things on some guys stream i dont want to watch instead of posting it here on these forums? This is kittening great news. Hope they bring a solo queue tournament in as well. That would go a long way for the games replayability. Now if they’d even put in deathmatches or arenas i might actually see some light at the end of the dark, silent tunnel.

They removed the traditional holy trinity. Instead we now have bunker builds. i dont see much of a difference as against healers you could at least nuke them down, or CC them. But in this game think of a prot warrior with many more knockbacks and self heals and with a buff added that ignores all CC. It takes far far longer to kill a bunker than to kill a traditional healer.

Burst is also far higher in this game. It truly is a game with extremes. They’ve changed the name of Rogues to Thiefs, even tho their steal is basically a nuke button. Thiefs are much more Rogues than the actual WoW rogues, as weird as that sounds. Thief dmg is far higher and we have the same problem where classes with good base defense can go full out dmg stats and not suffer much for it in terms of survivability. If you liked Vanilla WoW Rogues, then you will love this game.

There are no arenas, only battleground type maps, where each one has either PvE creatures or Siege Weapons, and there are circles instead of flags. These things get boring very quickly, for me at least. I’ve played WoW BG’s for about 200 times longer and havent gotten anywhere as bored in that time as 2 months here..

Variety between builds and classes really isnt that much higher. The amount of game breaking bugs are immense. Certain classes have about 60 bugs easily, and the entire mechanic of Stealth has a rendering bug that still isnt fixed since the very first Beta Weekends. I’d say the degree of FOTM players in this game is even higher than WoW.

Oh yes and the glory grind (even though you dont actually get any advantages for it) will kittening blow your mind after rank 30. WoW has nothing on this massive grind, which is all about time invested. In Arenas you could play a minimal amount of games to get the best stuff as long as you were good enough. There is no matchmaking in this game, its all time spent. Because of this even more people will roll the FOTM since its possible to double your glory gain / wins by playing a class which is double as easy to play.

Yeah i was already using the other heal. WoB to heal the pets after combat and before aoe lifedrain with DS. Im also using Ogre runes over Divinity. Also using Life Leech over crit sigil.

Shadowfiend actually does nice damage and attacks quickly so i wanted to keep that one. The stupid Bone Fiend is ranged but seems to do a pbaoe immobilize, which you even need to cast for. Spectral Grasp would be even more awesome and probably staple if it wasnt so buggy.

Gonna try your suggestions out. Havent looked at the signets much yet. Thanks a lot!

Also for fun i’ll try a Spectral Wall / Explode Bone minions for extra aoe burst / double chaos armor if somebodies getting kitteny. I think the Wall fits really well in the burst combo as it has the same cd as reapers mark, gives you protection right when its dangerous, and adds another 10 stacks vulnerability on your targets. Bone Minions same cooldown as Chillblains which makes em easy to hit and also with the Hydromancy sigil. But im just rambling now. I’ll just try everything ^^

ALso rustmonster attacks 2 times making it siphon hp per attack wich is also a minor perk.

That trait is a static amount per hit? So bone minions would only give 2 small heals when you explode them?

Hey dude i’m new at Necro and so glad you posted this. I’ve been trying different builds and i feel you hit the dmg/survive balance pretty well! Im having a blast, already had my first 2v1 after only a few games. I’ve had so much fun with Flesh Golem and the Wurm.

My only gripe are the other 2 pets, and the weakness of this build in Khylo. Its hard to replace these 2 pets without making half of the trait build useless. Have you ever tried removing one of these for spectral walk? Or even spectral grasp or wall?

Anyway thanks again. Love how the build scales with skill even though some of the well known facerollers are rather annoying to lose to with this one. Luckily i know that facerolling people back is too boring for me. The movie was cool too. Thumbs up.

This did more than i expected. Before this i always felt…trapped…in the game, for a lack of better term. As if i was stuck in some kind of small cubicle. But thats fixed now thank god, even though i wish i could zoom out just a little more. Either way i think this is a great addition to the game and well worth the development time, thanks a lot guys.