Guild Wars 2

Exemplar.1479:

Ketill.5218:

Exemplar.1479:

If Retaliation builds REALLY were the intended target, then work on Retaliation.

There is NO reason for the Symbol of Wrath cooldown to be THAT high. The nerf to the Greatsword has put a huge dent in the build variety and versatility it had previously, as well as hitting the damage and AoE ability of the weapon by more than any reasonable amount. On top of that, many symbol-boosting traits simply do NOT benefit the Greatsword like they used to, and this is a huge problem considering the Greatsword has a symbol in it’s skillset, and that the main trait line that boosts offensive symbol usage (Zeal) is tied to/provides traits to encourage Greatsword usage!

If the Symbol giving Retaliation is the problem, then simply make it give Fury or Might instead! I cannot believe that ArenaNet went through with this change without considering any of the ramifications it would have on other builds involving the Greatsword.

Your post completely nails many of the fundamental issues with this change. It goes way beyond just the skill arrangement people. This change really hurts all symbol builds with the GS and GS diversity in general. Go Zeal line for offensive symbols on your GS? Even less useful than it was before this patch. Run a GS and Mace defensive combo like I was doing before this patch? Well my Mace is still fine but now my GS symbol healing has been cut in half (also the symbol skill keys no longer line up between those two weapons like they did, making the combo more awkward than before). For being a so called “retaliation” change this really ended up being more of a Symbols nerf. And I’m not even sure why because I’ve never seen a single person complain about them being OP to begin with.

Thanks. I think a lot of Guardians are on roughly the same page since this patch change, in that most people see it as more of a detriment/unnecessary change rather than anything positive.

It really just comes down to the fact that the Symbol of Wrath change simply does NOT do what ArenaNet stated it was intended to do. Instead, it caused unneeded collateral damage to many other Symbol-based and Greatsword builds.

I really hope that ArenaNet takes a look at the suggestions and design-issues that are being voiced, because there are many that are being voiced VERY reasonably and logically. For them to ignore that would be a huge slap in the face.

I went through that “ignoring of the players” with Blizzard and Diablo 3. I’m hoping our collective player-base doesn’t have to go through that again in Guild Wars 2.

EDIT: I didn’t know how to properly quote, so I used a kittened method, but wound up discovering how to properly quote and so I edited for that.

Totally agree

Being tactical and being supportive =\= static playstile.

This is and action mmorpg so its reasonable that if the general CD cooldown for the skills its to high, maybe some skills are unbalanced.

I dont want a massive redisign of the weapons skill, because we have strong counters, but an(only ONE) attack option <10 sec CD for weapons that dont have it can improve the action approach of the class.

Maybe this is too OP.
But thigs like a simbol that can be activated after the leap of faith, like cripple when you are in the field and 1 sec cripple when you go out of that, can be funny.

Eveningstar.6940:

What I do know is that my Thief with dual daggers can stand up against more enemies than my Guardian with a GS.

What build are you running with your Guardian? What are your traits and weapon swaps, and what utilities? And which fights are you talking about in which your Thief can stand up to more enemies than your Guardian?

Guardians are a great defensive class, but that defense is not automatic. It takes a bit of tuning and a bit of optimization, and good situational awareness, to produce a highly survivable Guardian.

If you post your details and the fights in which you have trouble (because not all encounters are the same), we can probably help you out. Greatsword, by the way, is not the best choice for a survivability build. It’s an aggressive weapon focused on dealing damage to multiple nearby targets and triggering Combo Fields. Survivable Guardians should be looking at Hammer or Mace. Even Sword and Scepter are more defensive than Greatsword.

Retaliation doesn’t really contribute to your survivability. It just rewards you for brinksmanship.

You are right, Gs its not a support weapon, but with the right traits can be a good weapons for mid support builds.(this before the patch)

like in a boxe fight: parry, parry, parry, dodge, explode!

@kousei
Well you are not the one who can make this choice for me, and say to other persons “this class its not for you, change” its quite arrogant, and i really hate this type of moods, instead of being constructive, this type of comments are destructive.

i dont think that hammer and GS are the only weap for guardian, i love swap weapons but you surely can say that Gs and hammer, are the only weapons oriented to a mix of damage and support.
Im one of the player that continue to use the GS(with mace\shield) istead of rolling an hammer guard like many of us, i like the staff, but only when in not in the middle of the fight.

Maybe my last comment was not so smart, but try to understand others before talk, maybe your playstyle its not so affected by the GS change, mine is changed i bit, its a bit boring like before, i do less damage, but im effective.

So if they nerf the hammer(i dont use it cuz i think its boring, but its really OP) we go on dungens with bare hand right?

Many of us, look the cd and the skill effect, and proposed to NERF the skill and have back the old GS cooldowns.

And for people that say: “think when to use sow, instead of spam it”
i can say that i prefer to think when activate a finisher with the leap, instead of thinking when to use a skill that many many people have traited. (and me like others have not traited simbols for SOW retaliation, i hate retaliation, its i boon that for me can deleted now from the game!)

i use mace focus for solo play and i think its awesome!
But for group play i prefer mace shield.

Sinos i dont agrere with you, because like many people said in the last days, instead of double the SOW cd, one simple solution is change the boon provided from Sow: simple, less invasive, and aimed to the perma ret builds.

ok i post here a suggestion that i made in this topic
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Feedback-Guardian-Greatsword-change-10-7/page/2#post403910

Well i agree whit all ppl that dont like this change on GS, but be creative.
I like the solution of SOW with 10 sec cd and another boon instead of retaliation, but in these days i was thinking that guardian is a “field control fighter” and simbols are the first thing he use to control his field.
so why dont add more simbols on the weapons skill?(longsword and scepter dont have one) for now we have Light simbols, why dont add dark simbols with different effect?so if a weapon have a slow light simbol, maybe can have a fast dark simbols (and viceversa) and dev’s can modify trait to have different sinergies for light, dark or all simbols.
ok its only and idea to have a really original guardian whit different builds and different playstiles.

Let’s Keep guardians voices alive!

Man i already use another weapons, but thrust me, DONT WORK WELL!
and anyway, concration is not a simbol, have no sinergy with simbols, so keep a consecration in a pure simbol build its like using pizza to replace car wheel. (ok maybe its a stupid example xD)

for me retaliation can be simply deleted from the game, nerf a weapon mechanic for a single boon its not smart.

i can adapt for reasoned and explained things, but i cant adapt for a casual thing that DONT affect its target, but hit many other aspects.

Dear eveningstar, you think is a good thing, well, i don’t think so.
If a player overreact, well it’s his problem, but if a “community” overreact, maybe there is real a problem, yeah there are always ppl like you that play the class and accept changes (even really bad and unnecessary changes like the last one), but this doesn’t mean that people always are overreacting.

Im still playing my guardian, it’s my main and a love him, i have a warrior 80 ad a mesmer, but they are not guardians, so i dont play them very often.
But after the patch i stopped to do dungeons, because it’s not funny like before, when im on GS now its only a long autoattack (leap of faith have no sinergy, and its not so usefull for DG run, and please dont tell me to change weapons, this really make me MAD) i do other things for now, like complete maps and complete jumping puzzle.

Fabsm, you refer always from a pvp prospective, and you dont understand that the “problem” is for PVE players.

Im one that adapt mostly of times, but when things become without sense (and when you dont know the reason of a change, things become whitout sense) maybe its time to speak and be propositive.

Well i agree whit all ppl that dont like this change on GS, but be creative.
I like the solution of SOW with 10 sec cd and another boon instead of retaliation, but in these days i was thinking that guardian is a “field control fighter” and simbols are the first thing he use to control his field.

so why dont add more simbols on the weapons skill?(longsword and scepter dont have one) for now we have Light simbols, why dont add dark simbols with different effect?so if a weapon have a slow light simbol, maybe can have a fast dark simbols (and viceversa) and dev’s can modify trait to have different sinergies for light, dark or all simbols.

ok its only and idea to have a really original guardian whit different builds and different playstiles.

There is one thing that i dont understand, why there are PVP players that simply throw crap to player that dont like the GS change.

Yeah i agree with all the pve player that are annoyed by this change, i play a GS\ mace\shield support guardian for dungeons. -3 gs simbols per minute are equal to a loss of regen, damage and condition cleansing, and when you are facing 10 or 15 mobs in a row this can be really a mess! this is the thing PVP player dont count.
In dungeons you cant simply skip a row of enemy, in WvW if you see a zerg, you can flee, but for dungeons you have for most of the time ONE way to go when you have chosen your path, and a nerf on damage, support or defence , can be really really annoying.

So think before say:

“hey you lost 3 simbols, but you gain one leap, stop cry and adapt”,

because pvp and pve are really different things, and anyway guardian ret builds still exists, so this modification dont hurt pvp playstile but for support simbols builds that want a bit more damage, this is a mess.

and sorry for my crappy english ^^"

This method worked for me:
-try to log into the forum
-when your are in the code of conduit, switch to the site page and log out from it.
-retry to log into the forum, and accept the code of conduit.

i have tryed all the methods, but only this worked for me