Guild Wars 2

By design concept, simbols are light, consecrations are fire, so elements are ok, and i dont think the fact this tools are static on the ground is a problem, if they provide some kind of heavy punishment for the fools that step on it.
Guardian is supposed to be a sort of “tactical warrior”, where warrior push the enemy with the brute force, guardian use some kind of refined methods, but (sadly) this for now is only on paper. (thats why i choose this class about 3 years ago, and now after 3 months of play im here to voice loudly my concern)

juno.1840:

What was the recent AH nerf? Did I miss it?

im referring about the Vigorous precision change, but its discussed on other thread ^^

Saying the OP is “ignorant” or a “bad player” is really quite lame.

I really dont care what ppl think about me, im “too old” for this lol ^^

I think it’s an interesting idea and neat design concept. My only concern is those trait lines already have a focus that is similar to the boon idea. So maxing out Zeal already does nice things to our Power attribute — having it also jack up Might could be a bit over the top.

Well you are right with this, but take on mind that a build is composed By at least 3 traitlines. So with this change even a build that take only 5 points on the zeal line can have a little improvement on the might boon. And a boon must be tied to a traitline with some kind of RP motivation ^^

Arken.3725:

I agree with Auras, I’ve been posting something similar like this for a few months. This game is too mobile to have symbols.

i dont know how the aura thing can be positive, without re-elaborate all the simbols.
Hammer simbol is always up, GS simbols is up only once every 20 seconds.

SImbols (and consecration) can be wonderful tools of field and position control. they need only the control part. (that now we are missing)

Arken.3725:

Edit: I’m not a fan of the current direction Guardians are being taken. We’re supposed to be powerful with boons yet the ones we have access to provide small duration/long cool down. I think we should have access to something similar to what Elementalists have. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen that profession have 40 seconds of regen, almost constant protection, same with vigor and swiftness while having 15 stacks of might.

i agree, all the guardians boon part, is handled in a really bad way.

Glacial heart is good as concept, but too RNG dependant with too long CD.
There are better traits on the valor line to invest on this.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Don’t forget that Guardians are suppose to be a supportive class as well.

Every class is a supportive class on this game by core mechanic and guardians is not supposed to be a support only dedicated class, So i undestand what you are saying but there is a simple solution to this, maybe selfish but its a solution.
Simply apply this improvement to the boons applied to the guardian because its the guardian that MUST fell powerfull when buffed, so other classe receive the normal version (that is still a buff so no harm) and the guardian receive the improved version based on the traits he choose.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Except we already have a trait-line focused on boosting the strength of your boons…
You even recognize it yourself, but fail to realize it makes your argument look ignorant.

Me thinks you’re just unsatisfied with your own performance and taking it out on the Guardian profession.

i really have no problem with “my performance”, im just angered by the recent Ah nerf, but this is another topic.
And for the virtue traitline, is a 360° boons boost duration, but it not improve single boons effects.
Im just basing this proposition on what devs wrote in the last patch notes

Ok i try to reelaborate my anger in something constructive.

I like the idea of a magical Fighter strong when buffed, but weak when without buffs, but this concept is not well handled on our class, because our boons are exaclty the same used by other classes.
Now reelaborate Major traits to buff boons is not the right way, because that type of traits, are needed to creare the real build, but what about Minor traits?So This is my idea.

Link a type of boon with a particular traitline and tweak the minor traits of that line to give improvement on that particular boon. (better effect, more stacks\duration, linked boons)

I was thinking about something like this:

Zeal: Might improvement
Radiance: Swiftness improvement
Valor: Protection improvement
Honor: Regeneration improvement
Virtues: i dont know what to link, but i think that this traitline already buff all the boons.

now 2 things

• im not proposing to Replace our minor traits with new traits, but simply add to that traits a minor boost to a particular boon, so if you invest 25 point on zeal, your might boon will be very powerful (for example) compared with the might generated by a guardian with 0 points on zeal.

• I prefer to not discuss values or particular effects to add, because is a very difficult work of balance, i can make some example but out of the original proposal.

Some example

Zeal line:
every point assigned to the zeal line give to the guardian a better application of the might boon.
Actual might formula: 0.375 * Level + 5 = 35 attack power or condition damage at level 80 per stack
My formula: (0.375 * level) + 5 + (points on zeal * 0.3)= 44 attack power or condition damage per stack at level 80 WITH MAXED ZEAL LINE, if you have no points on zeal, formula work in the old way.
Traits:

• Zealot speed give you a 5% change to gain another stack of might when you gain might, with the other offects
• Simbolic exposure give you a 7% change to gain another stack of might when you gain might, with the other offects
• Simbolic power give you a 10% change to gain another stack of might when you gain might, with the other offects
  a little note to all, before say that this tweak is OP, keep in mind that in order to max zeal line, the guardian have to drop defenses, so its a perfect solution to the ones that want to play as fullglass cannon.

————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

Radiance:
Swiftness duration : Base boon duration + boon duration modifyer+ (points on radiance* 0.134)
Basically with 30 point on radiance you gain 4 seconds on the swiftness duration.
Traits:
justice is blind When you gain swiftness, you gain 2 seconds of fury too, with the other traits effects
renewed justice When you gain swiftness, you gain 3 seconds of fury too, with the other traits effects
Radiant power When you gain swiftness, you gain 4 seconds of fury too, with the other traits effects (i dont know if its the case to touch this trait that is powerful enoght, for me its better to stop at the step 2)

————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

Valor:
Protection Damage reduction: 33% + (points on valor * level * 0.003) = 40% damage reduction with maxed valor line at level 80.
i dont touch minor traits here, the formula effect is powerful enough

————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

Honor
Regeneration duration: Base boon duration + Boon modifyer + (point on honor * 0.134)
Same duration addiction as radiance, 4 seconds when maxed line.
I dont touch minor traits here, not because the formula is strong, but because minor traits on this line are the best minor traits we have.

Virtue
Aegis improvement here i not propose a real formula, but a simply aegis improvement by the tweak of 2 traits.

• Virtues of retribution: Aegis can block 2 attacks before vanish
• Power of the virtuous: Aegis can block 3 attacks before vanish
  —————————————————————————————————————————————

Mira.4071:

I think they were spot on.

Very strong when boons are up, somewhat weak when boons are down.
Can handle conditions easily, but requires melee to deal effective damage.

Sounds about right.

Ok, but, our boons have nothing special compared with other classes boons, and yes we have to stay on melee range to fight, but we havent sufficient tools to keep that fight range.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

Ganzo.5079:

Ehm in another post you say that you dont use AH.. SO why are you talking about the no change? lol of course your playstyle is not changed and you are happy with the change!

You clearly aren’t reading my posts. The ONLY thing I’m trying to say here is that the end-times QQ is baseless. People are complaining that we’re being pidgeon-holed, that we’re broken, that we are not viable, that we are obsolete. They’re wrong. I’m simply trying to explain that there are OTHER options. I’ve said absolutely nothing of the sort you appear to think I have. No offense intended, but is English even your first language?

NO english is not my first language but i still understand well what i read.
You come here without even use the AH build, a build that require A particular type of equipment, poeple invest on it and you simply suggest to people to change their playstyle because there is some other build to play, when your playstyle is not touched.

Now i dont know if exist some other effective build, this is the thirt build i have to change because of guardians NERFS and im starved (3 builds, 3 different equipment 3 sets of runes, 6 sets of sigils, 3 set of jewellery.) ok bunker build are always our top build, but simply change builds and equipment every time they nerf something is STUPID.
Instead of play for fun, you suggest to people to re-farm their equipment, and waste other money\gold\gems, and maybe the next month they nerf the new build.

Im not against this mofidication, because the AOe heal was surely OP. But 5 sec CD on VP is too much as nerf for AH.

i will be happy only with a symbol boost, but insteaad of more damage, a really prefer some movement malus related to the simbols rate of use, and maybe, more simbols to use ^^

And for the weapons boost damage traits, i don think they will be usefull. Our streght is on Boons right? so why dont create more boons related traits? SOmething that increase the boost of might, or the HP healed by regen… or something that double the number of stacks added by a single boon. or something that give us a stack of a boon, if we have a stack of another boon, this can be funny instead of a passive % of damage added to a weapon.

Silentstorm.7531:

They won’t bother AH anymore no reason to. Now in order for it to be the same as it was before the patch you have to be proactive. And I bet something else gets added to offset the class weakness in survival now. Meditation heals is ok but really not the only game play you should be stuffed into.

I will be happy with some hints.
But for now the class is far from What devs describe our class. And with this hit THe non honor (non hammer) AH builds are just trash.
Well at this point, i continue to play with new vegas, and lets see the next month what they create for us.

Manticore Five.9867:

If you want altruistic healing, it helps to be altruistic.

This is quite annoying, you spamm this on every thread. On a 1V1 fight, have someone to be altruistic with his opponent? Think before talk please.

Manticore Five.9867:

Or you can swap 2 traits and go with meditation heals, no other changes needed.

Or simply they can tweak decently the trait. No more massive Aoe HEAL, but decent heal even for non hammer builds.

ITs always funny that People come here to tell us that their playstile is not changed, and then we discover they dont use The nerfed trait\skill\weapon… (CPT Obvious the revenge)

How many funny guys there are around the world -.-

Ehm in another post you say that you dont use AH.. SO why are you talking about the no change? lol of course your playstyle is not changed and you are happy with the change!

Im done here, i hate PPL that talk without be touched by things!

Christos de Soufre.3802:

AH was extremely powerful. It needed dampening, so it got some. We still have plenty of high-survivability builds. Players who relied entirely on AH will simply have to adapt.

And its ok with a VP nerf to avoid the AOE multi heal from AH.

But 70 hp every 5 sec is trash, when with the same cd of empowering might(1 sec cd with 1 sec duration), they can avoid the AOE HEAL and keep an AH non HAMMER build still viable without waste 20 point on honor.

And:

We still have plenty of high-survivability builds.

ok tell us some build to use. Maybe not bunker ^^

And just to be clear, justify an High survivability build with the use of life steal food + sigil of blood, is crap, a warrior or a thief with life steal food, can survive better then us(due to higher melee attack speed\better crit chance) … On my rogue with a pistol whip spam i can heal myself for 5\6k easy.

No no Wait, why a class is supposed to be a Morale booster? Are we only a mascotte? Come on man, ok that you dont feel nerfed, but this is not a good point! Give us some real topic to discuss. Because a lot of us Feel this modification exactly like a HUGE NERF, and if you look around the forum, you have NUMBERS to read.

They are breaking balance with every patch, and if a bunker build is still viable, a lot builds are just trash, and this is going worse and worse.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

For just getting around the map, I’ll equip Retreat. I’ve also got the GS leap and “Save Yourselves!” Obviously I’ll try to swap Retreat out for something else before entering combat, though…

exactly, you try, but it not work always, and most of the time you are locked with a skill that you dont need in combat.

Its not only this, but also classes forum need more love.
So i agree with this.

erapago.4387:

“We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure. "

I really hope we can get clarification as to what this means, because it seems to be a broad statement that applies to all classes. Other than retaliation (which we can do with self combos), I can’t think of any classes that have trouble applying ‘power’ boons to themselves.

Keep in mind that the retaliation preservation is the cause of all our nerfs, thats why bunker build are strong, and thats why they insist to nerf every other aspect of this class.

Guardians need a total rework in the actual state.

• Low Healthpool base… Ok i agree with this, we have to rely on boons to be competitive so its a fair compromise, IF the boons are BETTER then the boons other classes have. And to do this they can create traits to replace the useless ones.

• Costant heal flow, the guardian is a particular class that broke the classic rules, its and heavy melee fighter, with low health, and to be strong, he need a costant flow of Health (regeneration, virtues, and traist effect) Nerf, to the ground this effects is like killing the class effectivness.

• Melee Fighter only…yes, i love melee fighting, but its an effective playstile only if you can constrict enemy in you attack range, warrior can do this with easy, guardian have not so many choices.

• Ground Control. Its only true for Spvp (with bunker build) where, the enemy need to take a point to win the match.(but all other classes, can do the bunker role) For other contests, this is just a non applied theory. As I said this many times. Ground control is not Stand in one place and wait for the enemy, (this is ground keeping) but is Create “zones of interdition” and “zones of punishment”, when an enemy is facing a guardian He have to feel fear, like walking on a mine field.
  Simbols, consacration, Wards: we need more tools like this, with different effects.(bonus, and mostly MALUS for the enemy)

alcopaul.2156:

what’s wrong with people logging in forums and hating GW2?

Nothing Wrong with them…
Deluded Customers have all the right to express their concerns, Remember that this is not a F2P game, you buy a client license and in the future you have to buy expansions.

and To OP, really… NO!… before mid november i had voted Gw2 Blindly… Now, after change directions, and funny balance choices, i prefer to not vote at all.

FOr the gap closer argument, i think that they are not so effective to mantain range, ok they close a gap, but after you close this gap, without a movement malus, your enemy can continue simply to run away. The best gap closing we have is mighty blow, that can close little gap, but every 4 seconds, so we can really mantaining a fighting range using this skill. But when the Cd of a gap closing skill is above 15 seconds, it need something to mantain you enemy in you range (immobilize, cripple or chill). JUDge intervention + ring of warding combo, is how a close cap skill should work, you close gap and you trap your enemy for some second.

And for you last sentence, our class base, was strong, but nerf after nerf, we are loosing our streght without compensate the nerf, like adjusting something that simply dont work (IE useless skills and traits)
This forum is full of post with wonderful propositions for our class, and very fev of this proposal aim to make guardian OP, a lot of them aim to rebalance our class. BUt if they insist to ignore US and OUR feedbacks, the situation can only go in a worse way.

Mira.4071:

You guys are making it out to be WAY worse than it is. Sometimes something really is just overpowered – and this Vigor/AH synergy was just that, overpowered.

AH is not useless. It is not crippled. It is still an amazing trait, it’s just slightly less so now that something which, in all likelihood, was never even designed with AH in mind, has been toned down a little.

You still have tons of other skills and traits, both active and passive, that provide a huge variety of boons for AH to play off of.

Yes, the Vigor/AH synergy was terrific. Yes, your self-healing potential has been somewhat diminished. And yes, that was the point of doing it – it was too good.

THe AH+VP was OP, maybe yes, But the way its fixed now is just Wrong.

Mouse.3271:

I’ve honestly not seen a difference, really, but I’ve made it a habit to stay mobile while tanking and throw in dodges to avoid normal attacks rather than just stand there and take it, so that may be why. I do notice that my vigor uptime is a bit less and I can chain dodges a bit less than I did, but other than that, my 0/15/30/20/5 build with hammer and AH is unaffected.

OK now roll an AH radiance build with sword, and then tell me if its uneffected by this change. I use and AH hammer too, but when something is wrong, i talk.

There is one great contraddiction in this last patch, they want us definitely as Melee fighter only, so why they increase the travel speed of other classes, without give us tools to mantain our melee fighting range?
As i said, nerf after nerf, they are loosing focus on This class (and insist to ignore our concern, wont help at all), they are simply nerf the class because some build continue to be Strong, and they are limiting our build choice… instead of call this class guardian, its better to call it bunker ._.

what mr sharp said, its exactly my idea of the guardian. and all my proposition from my very beginning on the forum, aim exactly to this vision.

Now i dont know what they intended to ground control, because what i see is only push all of us to make a bunker build.For me ground control is another thing, something like create interdition zone where enemy cannon pass (like hamme and staff ward) or zone where the enemy is Heavily punished if he walk into it (this can be the role of simbols and consecrations, but for now are pretty useless for this role, Just wall of reflection respect in part this concept)

A warrior that rely on boons, this is only theory not well applied, id like to see trait that boost a particular boon like Vengeful, but applied to other boons. something like:

• every time you have a stack of the X boon, you gain a stack of the Y boon too.
• or every time you can gain a stack of the X boon, you gain 2 stacks.
• or the duration of the X boon, is increased by Y %

Replace the useless traits we have(like the weapon damage boost), with traits like the ones i posted, maybe can give to our class some new idea for building, that can respect Devs idea for guardian.

kaffaljidhma.1496:

Doesn’t empowering might make up for that, though? When I think of AH, I think of 0-0-30-30-10; I haven’t seen may builds with 10 in honor that didn’t also use some alternate method of healing, like faster signets or Monk’s Focus instead of AH.

Ah build are not just that, the only thing you need with to old AH build was the 30 valor points, your build is the AH Hammer, but if you play an AH sword, you will rely on maxing radiance (so take empowering might, is just like waste 20 points)

Obtena.7952:

I honestly don’t know what builds you guys are using to claim this is a devastating blow to AH builds. Vigor is certainly not the only boon that procs on guardians. Even more significantly, it didn’t even proc on your allies so it didn’t stack AH heals like protection from hammer symbol or virtues with Virtue 5. I dare say it but it’s probably the boon nerf that has the least impact on an AH builds.

On a WvW situation, is difficult to stand to the hammer simbols to have the AH effect, but is just the only viable solution now.
With other weapons, like Sword, GS, or Scepter even with might generation sigil, without the Vp proc, the AH build is no more a viable option, its better to use a meditation build.

kaffaljidhma.1496:

Why would a 1 second cooldown be better for the game as a whole?

Because in the lapse time of 5 seconds if you crit every time, you can have 5 procs of vigor, so something like 70*5=350 HP every 5 seconds from vigorous precision.

With the change you only have 70 HP every 5 seconds from vigorous precision.

1 sec cd, only need to avoid the AOE AH heal.(from vigorous precision) Because if you land a mighty blow (only for example) on a group of enemy, even if you land 5 or 6 crits, you will be healed only for one proc.

Nirvash.3018:

Vigor is already overpowered and still remains overpowered I can’t believe you guys don’t see this nerf as necessary. Just think about it.. The trait costs 5 points and it has no internal cooldown. Its a miracle Anet just soft nerfed it, but it still remains overpowered because you still have infinite vigor regardless with any decent amount of crit %.

SOFT NERFED!?! lol go from no internal CD, to 5 sec internal CD, and you call it SOFT NERF? 1sec cd With 1 sec duration. With this, they solved all the problems(AOE Massive HEAL) without invalidate the AH+VP combo.

buki.3108:

If you can’t survive without depending on that -

OMG i see this kittening phrase on every single class forum.

This is not That people Cant survive without IT, BUT This is a stupid nerf that can simply be fixed with and internal cd of 1 second to VP, instead of this 5 sec duration for 5 sec CD.
For me is not a matter of survivability ( its a month that i dont play so for me its not a problem) BUt its matter of reasoned things. Massive nerfs are just stupid, instead of try with little changes tha can affect builds without Messing them UP, they go ALWAYS with the Hard WAY (MASSIVE NERF and then little buff) and every time a plan to return, they simply add reason to me to unistall the game and forget it.

kaffaljidhma.1496:

To tell you the truth, if the patch notes are any indication, AH was headed for a nerf anyway, since it depends on boons expiring. Obviously boonless guardians are going out, so there’s too much of a risk of overlapping duration stacking boons cancelling out AH anyway.

ehm, you dont need that the boon expire to apply the AH effect, you only need to refresh the boon.
I have tried on game right now to be sure

Kami.7369:

Ganzo.5079:

So the new combat style is roll to death?
I was under permavigor even before this patch, so i really dont where is this Dodge buff! But i clearly see the HUGE nerf to the AH build. 70\80 hp every 5 seconds, from VP is just kitten.
im asking for a compromise, with the old VP on multitarget you can just tank without rolling(1000+ heals per sec), but with a vigor tick effect that can assure you 5 tick of vigor with 5 seconds CD to refresh the effect, the healing effect is surely nerfed, but a lot less then NOW.

So is Vigor your only source of Boons or something? I use Shouts, and Virtues, and Strength Runes and Sigils. And Empowering Might.

I haven’t noticed a change in my survivability at all. In game hasn’t changed much for me. It feels like this is being blown out of proportion because of how it looks on paper.

I use shout\virtues\str sigils too.

But beside Str sigils that is 70 hp per sec, if you crit every sec, and its good, the rest are just long CD, and the healing effect is just a side effect. you can use them to heal something like 150\200 Hp every 25\30 seconds, so they are not reliable source of healing, and just run a shout build For AH sinergy, its a Waste of utility skills. and i dont talk about virtues because the virtues Cd is longer then Shouts CD.

As i said, VP without an internal CD is OP, because of AH AOE HEALS, but to fix this, they can simply add a low CD(0.5 sec or 1 sec like empowering might), only to avoid the AOE trigger EFFECT. This 5 Sec duration with 5 sec CD dont make sense.

Someone on the guardians Forum proposedsomething like this, Simply introduce a CD of 0.5 second for VP proc, with the Old Vigor Duration.(1 sec per proc)
A perfect solution to Avoid AOE AH heals, but in the same time a Crit build is not nerfed on single Target.

Bakitten291:

I Still think adding a .5 second CD to it would have fixed It alone. The issue was multi hit attacks and AoE attacks, WW for example would be limited to 6 hits total (think it lasts 3 seconds, could be wrong) and Zealots would be about the same, auto attacks on single target wouldn’t be effected but multi target and the sword #3 auto attack would be lowered for healing output some. And keep in mind it only procs of crits so some of those hits wouldn’t even heal.

To nerf it down to the point that the only way to make AH worthwhile is to spend 20 points in a completely different trait line (aka for empowered might) Is a complete and utter WASTE of a trait.

Exact, the 0.5 sec CD solution, for some reason is better then mine for Sword\Gs AH builds. ANd its perfect to avoid AOE AH massive heal.

edit : O_O OMG the censor have censored your name in Bakitten LOL

So the new combat style is roll to death?
I was under permavigor even before this patch, so i really dont where is this Dodge buff! But i clearly see the HUGE nerf to the AH build. 70\80 hp every 5 seconds, from VP is just kitten.
im asking for a compromise, with the old VP on multitarget you can just tank without rolling(1000+ heals per sec), but with a vigor tick effect that can assure you 5 tick of vigor with 5 seconds CD to refresh the effect, the healing effect is surely nerfed, but a lot less then NOW.

Lucky.4263:

id stay away from guardian too if i were u, they buffed our underwater combat (kitten pointless if u ask me, im underwater 5% of my gaming experience)…and stealth nerfed the kitten out of our most viable build (AH)…im goin thief or warr no matter what nerf comes their way they still own on all aspects.

Holy words, Stay away from guards world for now, roll something else.
I was planning to return to play with this patch, but the AH stealth nerf, really dropped my enthusiasm under my shoes.

Dico.4815:

AH now is a fail build, they want every guardian use meditation. Lets go =D

lol next month Patchnote:

- Doubled Cd for all meditations skills.

Joke apart, we are goind on the direction of the single guardian build. OUR options are less and less.

Freezenox.8534:

You know 5 sec Vigor mean u can roll more often with roll on heal + evade more damage. So it is a nerf of AH, but also a buff on other trait at the same time

Vigor every seconds, and 5 seconds of vigor every 5 seconds, its the same things in temrs of dodging, so its not a buff for dodge heals. Its only an AH nerf.

Kami.7369:

There’s a post from Jon Peters from LAST WEEK answering a question about Faithful Strike, so don’t give me that “Woe is me the devs hate us” crap.

Learn to adapt to changes in the game.

Sorry man, but really, the L2adapt things, its just crap. I can adapt when someone explain me why something its massive changed, and why they change is so RELEVANT.
But simply mindlessy accept a change, when we know that is really a relevant change without say something because we have to adapt, is just stupid, its against the logic of game development and feedback.

you are not overreacting, i think that “dedicated player” are now looking elsewhere, because anet continue to change(massive nerf) things that work, they dont fix bronken things, and our build diversity is going down with every single patch.

anyway if someone want to comment this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Vigorous-precision-suggestion/first#post1005919

I dont know what to think, they want us stronger with boons, but our boons are not so special if compared with other classes. Warrior have less boon option then us, but that boons are offensively stronger and they can use them with an higher uptime then us.(Elite signet you know)
The strongest build we had (AH Heal) is now a demi viable option.
i dont know why they love massive nerf to this class. IS really too much ask some nerf on the mid way? and then look if its enough?(not powerful then before, but not nerfed underground)
They dont listen to us, they broke the things that work (ok maybe thjings that work too much) but they definitely dont fix the things that dont work.

+20% damage on unschated contenteder? dont make me laugh, this trait must be deleted from the game, or tied to a boon that can last some seconds. Tied with aegis, is simply useless.

ehm i dont understand your calculation.

Before the change, assuming that i calculate only AH + VP proc, the heals amount was for every crit you land, because it was dependand to the numbers of enemy, so with a single AOE skill you can heal 70*number of crit landed on the same time. (and maybe this is OP)

Now it proc only once every 5 seconds, so its only 70\80 HP every 5 seconds. (and this is a disaster -.-)

As i suggested a simple solution:

when the trait proc, it give us 5 or 4 ticks of vigor(1 sec per tick) with a 5sec CD. ok its something like 280\350 Hp every 5 seconds, but its a lot better than 70 HP every 5 seconds and its not OP then before kitten

Araris.7839:

Hmm..Well, It’s a huge nerf, that’s true. No, it didn’t really help us at all in terms of vigor because if you were running the build correctly, you had vigor coming out of your ears as is.

Was the build OP..? hmm..I don’t know, maybe. I thought it was fair that I was more defensive if the warrior put out so much dps, but meh.

Anyhow, my only real issue with this is, if you’re going to directly nerf how a build works, put in some interesting alternatives. Fix the bugs, combine some of our traits (ex. symbols) and put in some alternatives.

i will be happy if instead of massive nerf on 360 degrees, they make little changes time to time.

Before they nerfed us on our damage (SOW uptime, retaliation signets) now our healing capabilities. i dont know why, but i dont see a big design for guardians on this, but only nerf after nerf.
if our class rely on boon, i think that our boons must be different to the others they have to last long or they have to give us better effects, for now a warrior have better buff then us, with a better uptime (might, fury and swiftness) and they can cripple and immobilize with every weapon. so Go on close range for them is not a problem.

Maybe its better if they re-create this class From the base, because nerf after nerf, we are loosing all our powers, without take into account, all that traits\skills, that are simply useless from the beginning, and there are still USELESS even after a buff.

So after the today patch, this trait is changed to give us 5 seconds of vigor with 5 seconds CD, instead of 1 sec of vigor every crit we land.
Now i know that this is a nerf to the guardian AH Build, but i think that is simply A huge nerf!

I suggest a mid way nerf to avoid the AOE heals that we had, but still mantaining a decen heal, instead of 70 HP every 5 seconds from this combo.

Simply let The VP cooldown at 5 seconds, but let the boon tick 4 or 5 times in this lapse of time.

I suggest something like:

4 ticks of vigor (1 sec per tick) with 5 sec CD, that is something like 280 hp every 5 sec. from the combo VP+AH. its not powerful then before, but its not massive nerfed like NOW.

ref.8196:

AH was OP. It was nerfed. Makes sense to me.

This is the same old kitten. This nerf to VP + AH come after the brutality guide is stikyed. So in Fact:

• They are discouraging people to discuss builds on forum, because then they balance that build with Massive Nerfs instead of try with little changes every time.

• To balance something they destroy something else. I think that this change aim to rebalance Hammer AH build, but in fact other AH builds(without hammer) are now only kitten.

crewthief.8649:

Ganzo.5079:

crewthief.8649:

You don’t have to run a staff. Get Knights gear, mix in some Valkyrie for +crit damage and + vitality, pick up Empowering Might, get some Omnomberry Pie, drop a Superior Sigil of Blood in one or both of your weapons. You’ll be fine. You have to change up a bit, sure, but you do not HAVE to run a staff in order to run an AH build.

You know that every class can use this?
Omnom berry pie and sigil of blood have nothing to do with AH build… you dont need AH to run this combo so its not a solution to the problem.

Of course I know any class can use this. The sky isn’t falling down Ganzo, take some meds or something. I’m offering a work-around to the player stating that he doesn’t want to use the staff. You’ll note, I also included Empowering Might in my post…or did you just flatly dismiss that part?

But you cant say that AH work fine, and suggest a combo that have nothing related to AH.
For empowering might, its good indeed for the NON hammer builds but take a master honor trait on a non hammer build can have a negative side.(honor is the HAMMER traitline) When with vigorous precision, the combo was on the same traitline, so after maxed valor, you can choose you own build.

If VP + AH is OP, i have no problem with a nerf, but not a Mindless nerf that maybe will be “fixed” the next Month.

crewthief.8649:

You don’t have to run a staff. Get Knights gear, mix in some Valkyrie for +crit damage and + vitality, pick up Empowering Might, get some Omnomberry Pie, drop a Superior Sigil of Blood in one or both of your weapons. You’ll be fine. You have to change up a bit, sure, but you do not HAVE to run a staff in order to run an AH build.

You know that every class can use this?
Omnom berry pie and sigil of blood have nothing to do with AH build… you dont need AH to run this combo so its not a solution to the problem.

Azzan.1650:

I don’t want to grab a staff… Why i have to ? I play sword/focus and GS, high crit rate . Why should I change my gameplay ?

Someone will tell you that you have to adapt to changes.

What im thinking now, is that you can adapt when you have a lot of choices, but now we have only few options, so play with that or play an uneffective character ^^, or stop to play at all ^^

Balthalzar.6243:

You only use the staff for healing, and then you switch back to greatsword.

the fact is that now aplayer is forced to grab the staff if it run an AH build… so where is the build differentiation? If it love to run an AH sword\GS build why he cant run it?
im not attacking you, but you are avoiding the real problem ^^

i simple solution to the problem for me.

instead of 5 seconds of vigor with 5 seconds CD from vigor that is equal to 70 hp every 5 seconds from AH.

5 tick(1sec) of vigor with 5 seconds CD, that is equal to 350 hp every 5 seconds if you run a crit build.
or 4 tick(1 sec) of vigor, with 5 second CD if we want some kind of nerf.

the real problem with VP and AH is when you crit on multitarget, but with my solution, you can have only a tick regardless of the number of targets.