It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill"
LOL
^it’s not completely destroyed lol
But a lot of weapons now are simply unusable with the AH builds…
The only weapon with some use with it now is the hammer(and its not so effective), but a Sword Ah build is pretty stupid to use, even if you use the sigil that give might on crit.
Everything brought up is a valid concern. I’m just saying those changes are not outside the scope of the description for Guardian. They could nerf Guardian to the point of uselessness but still make the class fit that description. In the end, it’s not a very useful approach to complain about balancing changes by referring to the description.
Really no
My 2 examples fit what im saying:
SOW nerf: less ground control, less buff, less heal per tick… so they messed up our survivability and ok they balanced it with -5 sec on a reach skill. but in facts, what we gain, is not comparable with what we have lost.
Vigorous precision change: Less heal from AH, so we have a LOW healtpool and they insist to nerf our healing capabilities.
I don’t see anything happening that isn’t inline with that description.
1. Heavy armor class relying on boons: check
2. Area control and position domination: check
3. Condition removal: check
4. Need for melee range: checkAdmittedly, I would like to see #2 a more significant aspect of the class (and have a larger impact on ranged weapons) but I don’t believe the specific details you mention are not inline with the overall feel of the class based on the given description.
Oh yeah our class rely on boons, but in fact, our boon generation is nerfed on every patch. Look things like AH builds, they rely on boon generation (or its better to say on boon tick) and now its nerfed a lot, the only viable option is AH Hammer, but its strictly tied to standing on the simbol (on pvp is not possible!), AH+vigorous precision, was the combo for every other weapon, to use AH effectively.
Area control? yes lol, so its supposed that a guardian have to spec only for bunker builds? area control is another thing, simbols and consacration are area controls effects, but are just UNEFFECTIVE for the purpose of control, are usefull on other way, but not for a real control.
Condition removal, yes this is the only things that is respected (for now)
Need to melee range, yes we have need to go on melee range, but how can we engage on melee if every one can flee from us? we neede more slowdown effect (i dont talk about immobilize, but some more SLOW opponent yes!)
I already HAD perm vigor. my whole basis of my build was the self healing from that trait. at 75% crit with a 1h sword over 5 seconds i would crit 7-8 times with just auto attack, thats about 490 healing done. Now it is just 70 healing. It is honestly a huge nerf for me.
This kind of capability is probably part of the reason that it got changed … permanent 490 Heal per second? I like guardian and I don’t like nerfs but that’s pretty OPed in a game where healing is rather limited.
490 healing every 5 seconds are: 5880 heals in a minute.
i think the monk focus build can heal better than this.
but anyway, go from 5k+ heals to 840… is a massive nerf! use a midway balance is asking too much?
we are on dead point. With the nerf tactics they are conducing, they make us Weaker on every role, with every patch, without compensate adequately
things like Unscathed Contender buff, are just a joke, this trait is one of the most uselees trait in the game. (because we have to go on Close combat, aegis dont last long in any case lol)
So lets discuss to the guardian balance Theory
Guardian
The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure. They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.
Now if im looking the nerf they start to make to our class from october, i see really nothing about this, or maybe only the “leap of faith” cd reduction (to make easier to go on Close combat range) but things like:
“SOW double CD” or the recent “Vigorous precision change”, are just against this Philosophy (or at least for me)
A lot of have proposed a lot of good balance, that aim EXACTLY in this Way (like crippling simbols)
I really dont know What role Anet deserve for this class, but after 3 months i see only development contraddictions.
I talk as one of those that stopped to play, but that is still continue to read the forum, bacause that game basis are very good, its the current release method that is extremly bad.(release timing and release communication)
Now we all know that this ascended stuff is a lot better than the exotic one, and its here to stay, but i start thinking that this cant be so bad if:
Now im not playing because i really hate blind releases, when the whole set will be fully released i will judge if it fit the game i buyed, and then i will decide if restart to play or quit definitively.
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i miss the GW build variety, and the limited stats equiment.
The “human behaviours” without end-game vertical progression:
1st – Players reach max cap level and gears.
2nd – Players get the their favourite appearance.
3rd – Players feel satisfied since they get a sense of “game completion”.
4th – Players only log-in once per month for one-time events.
Result – Low concurrency : Empty maps 80~90% of the time.
This is the truth shown by evidences. Is this what players want?
This is true now, because the game is still growing. But with new events, new level 80 maps, new dungeon, new skins to collect, achievement, skill collection (i dont know why its not implemented, because this was a GW ace) etc etc… this sense of game completion will be less and less significant.
Add tier with higher stats, to avoid that people leave, its only a short time remedy, because after the people gathered the new equipment, they go directly on the 4° point of your list, and in the same time, you lost the poeple that dont like this kind of methods.
as i can say, if this ascended tier mark a non trepassing line in term of stats, can be a decent move(its not good, because of the PR disaster), its not a treadmill, but a correction of a design mistake. and when it will be fully released i will be glad to return to play.
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I might have misread or misunderstood the rune/sigil thing, but they made it sound like they would be included in the items, which means there may be some impossible to make builds with ascended gear. I suppose if that were the case, some builds would be more powerful than others, since they got their gear.
I quote only this, because i agree on the rest.
Well we dont know what they deserve for armors and weapons, but have the crest stats directly on the item, will be a fatal error!
To make and example, i play a shout guardian, but without the soldier rune it will be less and less effective, not for stats, but for the 6 rune effect. i really hope they tweak armors and weapons with a dual slot, one for upgrades, and one for infusions. (jewelery is fine, i know no one that change the gems on an exotic ring, i dont know if its possible too xD)
Its not a simple question.

If the armor releases with a HUGE difference in stats, and the weapons come out with crazy bonuses, I will probably start carrying a pitchfork with you guys though. I’m going to give Anet a chance for a bit though, see what they plan on doing.
Thats the real issue. Rings (i cant talk about backs, because dont exist an exotic back) have already a good difference in terms of stats so, the whole ascended set will be surely a lot stronger then the exotic one, but thats not a real problem if:
There is nothing wrong with vertical progression, i played a lot of games with vertical progression in the past, but the problem is when you add vertical progression in a game that was advertised without it (or is better to say, without a mandatory gear grind).
If someone tell you that a new drink is the thing you will love if you hate coke, and then the new drink taste EXACLTY like a coke, someone will surely love it, but the original buyers the ones that thrust on the advertise, have all the rights to be concerned.
I personally feel FotM, and the emphasis on obtaining the items/gear there, devalues a lot of the game as a whole; though I guess it also shows a large amount of the playerbase don’t care about the game world/exploring. Or maybe Arena Net does a bad job at providing incentive for exploring the world? Dunno.
In the start i was really angry with the Fotm choice, now im not playing, but i plan to return when all the ascended set will be fully released.(i like to plan my equipment, and i really hate partial releases)
I hope they understand they error they made, and they will stop with the stats progression in favor of more challeging contents.
and to be exaustive with a stupid example if you add +1 on difficulty, and then +1 on equipment value, the overall challenge rate , is pratically the same.
on WOW do a lvl 70 dungeon with equipment designed for lvl 70 chars, and do lvl 80 dungeon with equipment designed for lvl 80 chars, is the same experience! no real challenge. This is the trap of the vertical progression after the max level.
p.s. after reading the message i see that my example is just wrong, but i hope that ppl understand what i mean, otherwise, i will do an example that perfectly fit my idea.
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This game does have vertical progressions and they do fail. Look at the low-mid level map.
Every game with a level scale have a component of vertical progression, the real difference is what devs create when you hit the max level.
The wow like game have new tiers with a totally different level, on the old wrath of the lich king a level 80 char had item with level from 200 to 284 (i stopped to play on wotlk, so i dont know the items level for cata and pandaland)
The GW model is totally different, because after reaching the max level, you dont change stats, but only skins rarity.
There is nothing wrong with vertical progression, i played a lot of games with vertical progression in the past, but the problem is when you add vertical progression in a game that was advertised without it (or is better to say, without a mandatory gear grind).
If someone tell you that a new drink is the thing you will love if you hate coke, and then the new drink taste EXACLTY like a coke, someone will surely love it, but the original buyers the ones that thrust on the advertise, have all the rights to be concerned.
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Because we were not told that Guild Wars 2 would feature vertical progression.
Sure you were, just over a year ago when they talked about level cap increases.
Increased character level =\= vertical progression or Gear grind.
If they follow the actual skill sistem, 10 more level dont justify a whole new set of items with new stats.
This is a misconception that if a game have a lvl 90 char, it must have lvl 90 equipment.
When you sit on your sofa with a beer, waiting for the keg brawl play-off.
IMO, the more options we have, the better, though I understand that things like “epic questlines” (my personal favorite parts of mmos) take time to develop. As long as the time/effort/gold cost is reasonably comparable across all methods. Which I think is where the current system fails.
Bonus points if these new acquisition methods get us out actually playing the game, instead of shuffling items on the trading post. Personally, I’m not even against a small amount of actual grind (I think some grind in MMOs is necessary and inevitable, just not to the extent that the current pieces require), but I’d rather grind mobs or events or anything out in the world, than feel like the only recourse is to grind gold to purchase the items instead of obtaining the items myself.
Grind is not really a problem when its not mandatory.
If you need that particular item that request a lot of grind, then grind it, its your choice to do that, but when grind become the only choice to do things, and to be equal (i talk about stats) to the other players, well in this case we have a problem.
Id really like the idea of a pistol guardian (or GUNDIAN, for the ones that played hellgate XD)
But the weapon that i want to play is the Spear for land combat, or an Halberd.
I like to see them in WvW and “hero” quest where you work for weapons though quest only for each class and or weapon.
Something fun can be something relating to your order, something like orders sidequests.
When you are sad in the morning because you have to pay 1 euro for the workplace waypoint :P
Orders need a lot of love.
They need better equipment to sell, not only that rare equipment, but also special equipment, something like a special karma vendor with the exotic\ascended set, and also, some “order legendary weapon\armor” obtainable after a series of quests, or with some special achievement.
Ascended gear is basically Exotics with a Rune already added to it and an infusion slot. The infusion slot is useless everywhere aside from the areas specific to it. Eventually we will have legendaries with the same stats as the ascended and an added slot for runes so this means the next level of gear will match those. Now if you have legendaries you are set and done – no more need for gear unless you want to do the fractals/karka stuff.
I want WvW equivalent gear to the ascended available through WvW the same way it’s available now. Karma/Badges but they need to fix the badge drop issues. Crafting is also a good way to get it but the reqs are insane.
i hope they dont make the mistake to create armor and weapons like the existing ascended rings. The rune choice is a BIG part of the character building , and limiting this with a fixed value is like killing the building experience.
I hope they create various type of set, to re-create that variety of equipment that we have with the exotic items, but not only the existing type of set (knight, rampager’s…etc etc) but also new variants, like equipment with 4\5\6 stats increased(im referring to an item without rune, crest or jewel bonus), but with lower values per stats, or the opposite, set with 1 or 2 stat but with a really high value.
To make an example
if we have an item that give us 3 stats:
the primary with a value of 100, and the 2 secondary with a value of 50, in the item we have 200 total stats point.
so they can create for example and item with 4 stats : the primary stats at a value of 80, and the 3 secondary with a value of 40
or an item with two stats (130 the primary and 70 the secondary)
The actual sistem have full room to a real customization, they need only to tweak what they already have.
Crafting:
One simple Level 400 recipe per profession (like Ecto + 100 Ori/Wood/Scraps) gives an account bound shard. Put all of them together -> Random Ascended Piece
Why a random piece by crafting? i find this nonsense O.o
Wonderful suggestion
+1 from me
i dont agree only on the weapon reskin thing. Its without sense, you see a warrior with a GS, and you start take AOE damage from distance … its not funny ^^
Lutharr said that he doesn’t mean to change skin to a different weapon, personally I think they should stay in the same category, no axes that look like swords and vice versa, just different weapon skins like the ones that you can get during events, just those you can get using sp
I read wrong, my bad. :P
this ascended versions are fixed and cannot be reconfigured but the infusions and the only way to reconfigure your ascended gear is to go the exotic way again and do all the configuration there with the appropriate jewel, rune or sigil and ascend them again.
I think they will give us ascended armors and weapons with the double slot (1 for upgrades and one for infusions), its the only way to keep effective runes and sigils.
For the rest of the post, someone on the past weeks have already suggest an exotic upgrade to ascended stats. i personally dont like this way, but if they create something like this, i will not refuse it. ^^
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Wonderful suggestion
+1 from me
i dont agree only on the weapon reskin thing. Its without sense, you see a warrior with a GS, and you start take AOE damage from distance … its not funny ^^
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A little off Topic.
If they follow the existing building method, if with an expansion they add 10 levels, this will result on a base stats value of 1118 on each stats (now its 916) and +200(100 × 2) stat bonus from the traitline. So nothing that justify another item stat increasing.
But remember that im only speculating on the values, following the existing rules.
i wish more weapon skill too, because for now devs have decided our combat style by the weapon that we are using.
But
Guys please i agree if you are still concerned by all this, but its not the reason why i opened this topic.
anyway
I’d especially like to see more epic quest/scavenger hunt/skill challenge kind of mechanics applied to assembling ascended, just collecting mats and farming points is boring.
ill add this to the first post
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Sylvari, its not a funny area and its not cool looking.
The best area for me is the charr starting zone.
Ok, i Try to open a different topic this time, im a strong oppositor of this set, and im not playing the game for now, but this set is here to stay, and maybe i will return when this thing will be fully released (so i can definitively plan my equipment and build).
So where do other player Wish to get the ascended items in the future?
for now we have 2 options:
But its obviously not enough… so ill put some idea to discuss.
Edit with other proposal.
I’d especially like to see more epic quest/scavenger hunt/skill challenge kind of mechanics applied to assembling ascended, just collecting mats and farming points is boring.
basically using Gift of Ascension and our current exotics. Yes, our current exotics as precursors for ascended.
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Not only the tryforge pendant, but also rare exotic weapons(like the foefire series), mystic weapons, cultural armor (that are really expensive) need some deep love, when the ascended set will be fully released.
Something as game breaking as this “patch” should be rolled back without delay. Hire some new patch testers. This was an epic bork up.
Oh no, you can’t do jumping puzzles today. Truly the end of the world.
bad joke for the fractal raiders, remember that one of the stages, rely heavily on jumps
dude if i tell u from 3 milion sold accounts only 10k using the forums only hard core i have literly over 20 firends that playing this game and none of them even SAW the forums or care for them
is this relevant?
For the same reason, a lot of my friend have simply quit with the game without post on forum after the patch.
as i said we are a sample, and the forum reaction is statistically, the community reaction.
I don’t see any numbers proving that the forum sample size is adequate to represent the games users as a whole. For that matter most younger teenagers just play the game and don’t use forums that much, as they are usually not concerned with forums in anyway because they are not thinking at a higher level most of the time yet(developmentally).
I hate it when people make unsubstantiated general sweeping claims and try to pass it off as having intelligence.
Could you be any more vague? Could you?
How are you qualified to say how large of a sample you need, and you just can’t pick a random number of people to get a sample that means anything. Sampling is much more complicated than saying all the people who use forums are a viable sample, you are just showing how little you know in the ways of even a simple sample.
So whats the purpose of a forum?
I know how a sampling work, and thats why i talk.
Surely i dont know forum numbers, but no one know really, Anet included because they cant know with precision what the forum users think.
So take it easy and dont try to be the superman of the situation, im not saying that the forum is a perfect sample of the community, but its the sample the devs have.(with the fan sites, FB, twitter etc etc).
And this more correct then simply say:
when the one that is speaking is a minority, in the minority.
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If i have to say something, is that all this discussion about minority and majority is kinda childish.
We are a sample, and across the forum there are all type of players (just like politics poll) maybe we cant talk for the whole population, but players that go on forum rapresent a sample of the community voice.
Just for example, before the lost shore patch, the sample attitude was good, ok there was some whine thread, but always controlled, and always balanced by other players.
now if you look the reaction of the community after the patch you can see a large wave of hate,(that is still lasting) so the sample is reacting bad.
Ok forum users are a minority, but samples are exactly made for this purpose, monitoring a huge number, by the use of a minor number.
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A guardian in that situation would of died within a second. 8(
in second no… but very fast, yes.
“Guild leaders are able to demote other players of the same rank.”
Why is this in the patch notes?
So now if I’m the sole guild leader and I want to upgrade my best man to my same rank, there’s a chance he may turn and demote me, effectively stealing my guild from under me? I don’t understand why they changed this.
Im not sure, but maybe why after promote a guy as Guild leader rank, the real guild leader can do nothing? if a co-leader, start to kick or insult guildies (for example) its right if the real guild master can demote and kick him.
CLass modification are lame as always… another nerf for guardians, ok that we are strong, but some love for GS and scepter is requested.
Im concerned for the poor rangers, i dont play a ranger but nerf them when they are already nerfed, its like shoot an arrow to the knee, after a low blow XD
Lol that wasn’t a nerf though it was a bug fix, at least that is what ANet are calling it.
ok its a bugfix, but logic teach that if you fix a positive bug, you have to fix a negative bug too, to mantain the cosmic balance.
Its the logic of KARMA o_o
CLass modification are lame as always… another nerf for guardians, ok that we are strong, but some love for GS and scepter is requested.
Im concerned for the poor rangers, i dont play a ranger but nerf them when they are already nerfed, its like shoot an arrow to the knee, after a low blow XD
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Hey all. There was a typo in that note. It has been fixed, here’s how the fix was actually applied:
- Area of effect heals and boons now prioritize players over minions and NPCs.
Thanks god, i was writing a poem on all the conseguences of this lol.
ok i really like this modification
To the poster above me: The more people that buy a game, and the more popular it is, the higher % of players that will be dissatisfied with it. More population = higher number of people who don’t like something, it’s just a numbers thing.
Not to mention there are people who just like to hate things in a hipster like fashion just because.
oh please give me some concrete argument instead of this.
Really, this is stupid, so why the Haters are making noise now, and not before 3 weeks ago? Before all this mess, the game was bugged, but fine, some people who buyed it without look blog or interview was leaving or making a little noise on the forum but the community was nice. (and the forum too)
GW2 is better than GW1 in almost every way. Stop letting nostalgia color your perception so heavily.
So if its so better, why a lot of people is upset or they have leaved?
Are we all idiots? or maybe there is something in the game that dont work like intended?
If you like the game, its fine, i dont think you are an idiot for this, its you personal taste, and its OK.
But for me,(and a lot of people) the game is broken now, they are adding useless things, they are creating players separation, instead of fix the game.
i agree with OP
its ok if they release new content once a month,(its good even if they release new contents every 2 or 3 months, if the game is stable) but its pretty useless release balance and bug fixes once a month, when you know that you game is a lot bugged, and a lot unbalanced.
Bug fixes must be done on weekly basis, so players can test and report what dont work.
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Trinkets drop from mobs or get them in Fractals. No crafting required.
LOOL so lets kill definitely guild wars!
Man, one of the best aspects of this game and the most advertised, was building your char, and a build is composed by:
If you cant choose you statistics, you CANT BUILD!
If you rely on RNG to choose you statistics, YOU CANT BUILD!
Anet said that GW2’s gameplay style would be nothing like GW1 from the very beginning.
Can you please link me where you read this?
Because im sure they stated too, that this game was PERFECT for the GW fans… and looking this forum, im not so sure of this.

Now the manifesto mean nothing i suppose, its really useless to talk about it, we have our reply, so move along.
Im one of those stopped to play because i dont really feel all the FOTM\AGONY\ASCENDED a right path to follow, there was a lot of things to do before a move like this
and im worried about the implementation method of this ascended stuff too.
with an implementation piece by piece, builders cant program their equipment, they have to wait the next implementation, and hope that some piece have the right stats for the build, and useless to say that play differents build, it can become really hard. (and most of ppl use at least 2 build, one for pve, and one for WvW)
Its really frustrating i have to say.
And another real problem for me is the abosolescence of old content like runes and sigils, and ok they say they are going to think about it, but when? and they tell something to us before let us buy useless things on TP? or simply they will follow the same rule to say something only a couple of days before the release?
as i said, now for me vertical vs horizontal progression is a closed question they want to follow both, and for me is a real mistake, but im not the developer…
but the things i have illustrated on this post, are still open wounds.
Not for now, im deluded by the direction taken, and the fact that this ascended tier will be released piece by piece, so a player cant program his equipment.
I really hate this kind of tricks.
Ill take a look on the forum, to see the situation time to time.
Background:
Consolle: started to play at 6 yo, with my uncle’s sega master system , but my first consolle was an old psx when i was 15, and then with my beloved Ps2, played every kind of jgdr, but my favourite saga here is shin megami tensei.
PC :western RPG usually. I love the Fallout, TES, and the mass effect sagas. Morrowind is absolutely my favourite game.
Online:
Before the 15\11, i really loved this game, and i was planning to play on this game for years, now i log only 10 minutes in a day, only to chat with my friends.
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