Guild Wars 2

Well there is no need to introduce duelling on Pve content.
What i think is just that the MISTS need some kind of 1v1 and 2v2 arena option, for casuals, but also something competitive.

Turial.1293:

Hmm I think of everyone kittening about not wearing “pro-berserker” and this dictionary copy-paste applies to that also. All anti-MF players here are; “seeking or concentrating on one’s own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others” – “arising from concern with one’s own welfare or advantage in disregard of others”

This have no sense. If you are really conviced of this words, EXPLAIN WHY.

I think Ganzo said it best with “but they are using a mechaninc introduced by devs, and well known.” So stop crying over a game mechanic, the few minutes to spare you might make from everyone following the trend of berserkers is minuscule at best, there is not enough gimping to warrant a removal of it from the game. The numbers you speak of are not noticeable, I say you are prolly just cheesed off because someone is putting thought into getting better loot.

Now i said before that i read wrong that post.
Devs are just human, they can intruduce mechanics that are wrong by concept, and MF is just one of theese, and as paying customer, we have all the right to express our opinion.

For the set choice not only about berserk\knight set, every stats on the game is useful for party, but not MF.
so why someone have to Equip a “normal set” and play on party with someone that Dont use all his stats for the fight?

Now at parity of Human skill, an MF user is a BURDEN for the party compared with another player, and that’s exactly why MF is a selfish stat!

Agree, and with duels, id really love to see some kind of arena tournament 1v1 and 2v2

Turial.1293:

Ganzo.5079:

Turial.1293:

enemy attacks – (if)dodge – player(survive)
enemy attacks – (if)no dodge – player(death)

enemy dies – (if)wearing magic find- player(gets higher chanced loot)
enemy dies – (if)not wearing magic find – player(moans histerically that the loot in the game is crap and Anet needs to fix their loot tables and ban MF users because they suck, leech and hack)

Maybe I’m misquoting, but the above formula seems to coincide with the game. Notice how wearing MF gear is not related with being able to dodge?

no ok wait, No one is hacking, they are selfish ok, but they are using a mechaninc introduced by devs, and well known.
Please dont defend our point by adding HACK as counterpart, because using MF is not hack at all.

Face-palm
Nobody is selfish, the point I am making is that those few people who are against other people using MF gear always come out with absurd responses. I was not, under any circumstances, defending your moot point.

ok i read it wrong, english is not my main language. My bad.
Anyway, the funny thing is a part of this reply, is just an absurd response.

Nobody is selfish? oh ok, EXPLAIN WHY? with numbers maybe.
And how our response are so ABSURD?

Another funny thing is that all the player that are here, to defend the use of MF on dungeon, think just to be Perfect and Infallible.
Please all of you, use numbers, and not just Your ipotetical skill, to defend your point.

Turial.1293:

enemy attacks – (if)dodge – player(survive)
enemy attacks – (if)no dodge – player(death)

enemy dies – (if)wearing magic find- player(gets higher chanced loot)
enemy dies – (if)not wearing magic find – player(moans histerically that the loot in the game is crap and Anet needs to fix their loot tables and ban MF users because they suck, leech and hack)

Maybe I’m misquoting, but the above formula seems to coincide with the game. Notice how wearing MF gear is not related with being able to dodge?

no ok wait, No one is hacking, they are selfish ok, but they are using a mechaninc introduced by devs, and well known.
Please dont defend our point by adding HACK as counterpart, because using MF is not hack at all.

the asset i prefer to use for WvW is

hammer + scepter\focus →taking points \ casual pvp
hammer + staff →roaming around
Staff + Scepter\focus (or scepter torch for more damage) → siege (attack)
Staff + Scepter\Shield →siege (defense)

Arken.3725:

Sustained damage is tied in with mobility. You can have all the sustained damage in the world but if you can’t keep up with your target, it doesn’t matter. Better boon upkeep should be looked at.(similar to elementalists) If Guardians are not to receive a ranged weapon, then melee needs a buff to compensate.

Yep you are right: the mobility issue is balanced by the introdution of more snaring mechanic (and thats the objective of this thread).
For the better boon upkeep, im partially agree, id really wish they nerf the retaliation uptime, for the sake of other boons (might, regen, protection).

Svarty.8019:

While I very much enjoy my Guardian, I often feel like I’d do better as a Warrior. This is probably a “grass is greener” situation, tho.

You are not alone, i think that a lot of us think that way, sadly. (me included OFC).

But we are here just for help devs with our class.

Xavori.3768:

Ganzo.5079:

ehm you miss some point.
Mf is not a stats that add something to the party but only for your personal gain.
berserk gear is all about dps, but even knight gear is helpful to the party, you have power and precision for the damage, and toughness for the defense, more defense = more suvivability = Your mate have to ress you less times = MORE DPS!

MF add really nothing to the party composition, and thats the point!

So everything I do must be for the good of the party?

At the end of the dungeon, should we all tally up how much loot we got and then split it evenly? I mean, if you’re upset that I take advantage of my skill as a player to allow me to still contribute greatly to groups I’m in even while wearing MF gear, then why is it okay for one person to get more loot than someone else through just random chance? If everyone is supposed to get the same rewards for doing the same task, then why not make it truly the same?

Cuz that’d be silly.

And I picked knights specifically because it’s identical to explorers except you trade toughness for magic find. By your claim, the goal is me not dying. Well….I don’t die in explorer’s gear, and I have the same power and precision as I would if I was wearing knights, and you were okay with me wearing knight’s, so you’re okay with me wearing explorer’s then, too? Again as long as I don’t die which was your ultimate goal for me.

You know, I came up with a change to MF and rewards I’d be 100% okay with, and would encourage me to switch my warrior from MF to zerker. Change dungeon rewards so that greater contribution provides greater rewards. If I do more damage, or provide more boons, or cure more conditions, etc, then I should get more rewards. That’s kinda my thought process in picking MF gear in the first place. I know my skill as a player is valuable, and I’m trying to maximize that value. If I could maximize my reward in a way that coincided with also maximizing the group’s efficiency, I’d definitely be in favor of that.

It wouldn’t even be that hard to actually implement. Just have the game track each player’s damage, healing, etc. When you get to the end where the tokens and whatnot are given, take each category and average it. Players who exceed the average in a category get their coins and tokens increased by a percentage based on how much they exceeded the average.

For example, the reward for completing a dungeon is 60 tokens. The average DPS of the party was 1000. But I did 1100. So I get an extra 6 tokens. Let’s say we had a water elementalist who provided an extra 5% healing beyond the party average, so they get 3 extra tokens. And we had a shout guardian who kept everybody covered in boons, providing 20% more boons than the average player did, so they get an extra 12 tokens. Then we had some guy who was afk half the fights, hid on ledges, etc. He was below average in everything, but he still gets his base 60 tokens so he hasn’t ‘lost’ out. Go through that with things like condition removal, crowd control, etc, and do it for both tokens and gold on the final reward.

I think that would both give skilled players the additional rewards they’re seeking while also providing everyone an incentive to play their best which I think is what the anti-MF crowd is seeking.

1) Why make a party if you equip just for your own interest.

2)You claim to be skilled, but really nothing excuse this, you trade an helpful stats, for a stat that help only your droprate.

3)Not all player have the same “skill level”, and most of the fantomatic MF users, go on dungeon, die like idiots, and make the rest of the party to lose time for ressing them, and all of this just for the sake of the droprate of one player!

As i said on this thread, if the MF value was shared by all the party members, i see no harm on using MF gear, because you trade an helpfull combat stats, for an helpfull droprate stats, and this is acceptable. But on the actual form, there IS REALLY NO EXCUSE.
Skilled or not, sometime you may die just because you have not enough vitality or toughness, or you slow your mates because you have less crit damage then the others.

Xavori.3768:

stof.9341:

Turial.1293:

I honestly don’t know who came up with the idea that using MF makes you a leech lol, certain players want to boost their items, others want to provide the most damage possible, others wear gear to increase criticals, others use…. etc. you see my point?

That’s because it does. If you go in with MF gear instead of Berserker, your group kills mobs slower. As a result, the other 4 players in your group gets less loot for the time spent while the MF in your gear gives you more loot instead.

By gearing up in MF instead of Berserker, you made a conscious choice that gives you more loot and gives all the other party members in your group less loot.

What if I want to wear Knight’s instead of zerker because I don’t want to die as much because I don’t want to spend money on repairs? Does that make me a leech, too?

What if I just wear rare gear rather than exotic because I’m going to get dungeon gear and there’s no point in buying exotic that I’ll just replace after a week? Leech?

What if I play a tank build instead of a DPS build because I enjoy going toe to toe with every mob I come across and don’t really care how fast I kill stuff? Am I leech because I’m putting my fun over your efficiency?

I can keep going. The whole argument that you must build for DPS and must wear Berzerker gear is even worse than the don’t-wear-MF-because-efficiency argument.

I mean, if you truly believe that every party member must build for maximum DPS, must be in head to toe exotic zerker gear, and must be skilled enough to not get flattened while playing a glass cannon, then I hope you have 4 friends who believe exactly the same as you do and who play as often as you do or you’re going to spend a lot of time frustrated because the groups you end up in don’t meet your exacting standards.

ehm you miss some point.
Mf is not a stats that add something to the party but only for your personal gain.
berserk gear is all about dps, but even knight gear is helpful to the party, you have power and precision for the damage, and toughness for the defense, more defense = more suvivability = Your mate have to ress you less times = MORE DPS!

MF add really nothing to the party composition, and thats the point!

maddoctor.2738:

tic.7425:

maddoctor.2738

What’s wrong in requesting something “challenging” in a game? I already explained above why the Open World can never be challenging, so the only “solution” is dungeons, or instances in general, and “dungeons that involve lots of players” are generally refered to as “raids” for whatever reason.

It’s not the Raids that are killing the game. It’s the lack of any challenge, the game is so easy to the point of being a brainless grind. It’s more like “work” and “loot” and “grind”, words that people are associating with raids, than any raid! At least if you have to actually THINK while you play, the grind effect can be lessened, at least if the content is challenging, they could get away with better RNG chances.

Because it typically doesn’t end with “challenging”. It invariably leads to, my guild is "working " harder, our rewards should be better.

Which is also fine, depending on the definition of “better”. Guilds able to “show off” for doing something in a game shouldn’t be considered “bad”, why should it?

I always say that exclusive gear (stat-wise, not skin-wise) is out of the question, and Anet knows that by now and won’t do the same mistake again (I hope)

But, giving players, and more importantly guilds, something to stand out, like a title for all of their members that defeated a powerful foe, or other guild boosts shouldn’t affect anyone, right?

Now talking about number, only skin or title, are not desirable to the audience that want raids. So with this things, they can add some better droprate of rare material (just for example, if a material have a droprate of 1% on the world content, on raid can become 3% vs the thrash, and 10% Vs the boss ). The important thing is (as you said) avoid like hell better stats on equipment.

i think too that we have too much tradeoff for the better survivability. now if i have to make some sort of tradeoff scheme, it will become something like this:

1)Low healthpool -> better heal flow\ boon(?) ->better damage reduction
2)Low mobility -> More snaring options
3)Low attack range options -> More snaring options
4)Low Burst damage -> more sustained damage

the point 1 is ok, time to time they nerf our ability to heal, but for now this point is good.
Point 2 and 3 are not good at all.
Point 4 is respected, our sustained damage is really good, and the retaliation part, come exactly here.(but i remember that i hate as hell that boon :P)

The problem are not raid themself. If someone want to play smething more challeging with 10 or more poeple, good for him, i raided too much on my gaming life, so i dont really care.
But the problem come when a content influence the game experience of other players. So the question is? why some player need so desperately raids? Only for challenge? or to have stronger equipment then the casual players or the WvWers.
This is the real point!

Raids or not, the concept is always the same! On this game cant exist only a single path to obtain the best equiment, and no path have to be faster then the others. (even if for now ther eis some problem, but they are working on it, i hope…)
If this simple rule is respected, devs can add what they want to the game, because im the only one that choose what to do with my char progression.

Bash i understand your position, but retaliation is just another issue. This is an action game, so its supposed to be played actively, not just stand and “reflect” damage.

Snare have 2 roles for our class, is not just for mitigate kiting, but even for try to stop Fleeing enemyes, and retaliation for this purpose is useless.

So i agree with you that heavy dps build, need Heavy snaring option than a bunker build. But we also need some minor snaring option through the whole class, that can be improved than by particular traits.

Silver.8023:

Indeed, they need not be mutually exclusive! I just try not to ask for too much Although Leg Specialist for Warrior is a good case in point.

Not trying to shut down your ideas or anything but while it’s a nice idea to have a unique snare for Guardian, I believe the whole boons and conditions system was made with the intention of consolidating skill effects, which keeps things nice and simple (look at the mess of different skills that is WoW, or at least, was WoW. I haven’t looked at it in ages). Having two separate conditions that only reduced movement speed, albeit different amounts, would be a little redundant. They’d most likely balance the skills towards the -50% movement speed of cripples in the event that we actually do get cripples.

My hopes are high! They probably shouldn’t be…

I know this but think about how strong an area cripple\chill can be for guardians. Thats why im saying that we need something lighter that can be used on area and that can last more than normal conditions. I dont disdain chill or cripple, im only thinking that are a bit strong condition for our style of combat that rely on sustained damage instead of burst.

Ynna.8769:

It looks like a solid build, but I don’t see it as significantly more mobile than a generic bunker build. I’d even wager that my Shout-based bunker build is about as mobile as this one.

To be honest, without vigorous precision, is less mobile then a normal bunker build

Silver.8023:

Sounds interesting! Don’t forget Runes of the Guardian!

I think I’d still prefer the simpler solution of putting snares on weapon skills, as Ganzo mentioned, it would mean the snares would be available to every build with the same effectiveness.

Snare on weapons skill and snare on traits, are not solutions that exclude one each other. Exactly like for warriors that have cripple on every weapons, and this cripple can become an immobilize with one simple 10 point trait.

What we have seriosly think is this.
How much snare we need?
How heavy this snare have to be, to be effective and challenging?

Now just because guardian is not a mobile class, we need as much snare options as warriors. (on quantity) but, not as strong as the warrior (and cripple is on the borderline for me and chill is something that can be accessible only for particular build DPS only builds: AKA 30 zeal point).
i said this many and many times, we need a different condition that can last over time without be OP.
Call it “Light Burden” “Holy pressure” or whaterver you want. something that can slow the enemy for more then 3 seconds and counterable\attenuated by swiftness (chill and cripple are not so counterable) so for me a 33% slow movemet, is the maximum value we can expect, but i think is just too much for a prolonged use.

Bakitten291:

Ganzo.5079:

Bakitten291:

See I still believe the a traited symbol chill would make more sense For a guardian than adding cripple. Considering we already have glacial heart, i just think chill fits better. I do agree that it can be OP at times but I think that something like 2 second chill on symbol use would be fine because the ONLY weapon that could make it OP at that point is the hammer. At that point you could make it so the 25 point zeal trait (symbols do more damage) is replaced by this so you tone down the possible damage they can do while fully traited. Also the hammer symbol is easily dodged as it is so adding a chill to it wouldnt be disasterous.

the problems with chill is that he add too much things. -66% movement speed and +66% on skill CD… its really too much, and thats why glacial hearts its so situational as trait (maybe too much situational)

Thats why it would all be short duration. Im not asking for perm chills. On symbol pulse i would want only like .5 seconds. If set on symbol use it would only be 2 seconds. Even with 100% added chill thats only 1 second per pulse or 4 seconds per use. But you also need to sacrifice some or all your rune slots, your food, and possibly some points into zeal to get to 100% duration as it is. Also read my edit on my last post

IF this trait will be a grand master trait, it will be ok for the effect that the trait provide. (with the chilling option i mean)
But this dont cover the need of the class of more snaring options, because its not the problem of one build, but its a problem of the entire class.

edit: lol i like the hot ice thing, even if too much rng dependant, with our fire condition spam, the chance have to be really low, something like 15\20% at max, to be balanced.

Bakitten291:

See I still believe the a traited symbol chill would make more sense For a guardian than adding cripple. Considering we already have glacial heart, i just think chill fits better. I do agree that it can be OP at times but I think that something like 2 second chill on symbol use would be fine because the ONLY weapon that could make it OP at that point is the hammer. At that point you could make it so the 25 point zeal trait (symbols do more damage) is replaced by this so you tone down the possible damage they can do while fully traited. Also the hammer symbol is easily dodged as it is so adding a chill to it wouldnt be disasterous.

the problems with chill is that he add too much things. -66% movement speed and +66% on skill CD… its really too much, and thats why glacial hearts is so situational as trait (maybe too much situational)

Celtic Lady.3729:

While we’re on the subject of waypoints, does anyone know why when there’s a DE that the waypoint becomes contested? I would think being able to waypoint in and join the fun would be a better idea…

just because people can abuse on them…if the point is not blocked, there is no need to ress when someone die.

Silver.8023:

Sword – Cripple, definitely.

Agree!

Scepter – Perhaps a cripple somewhere, maybe after the immobilise as an additional effect? Even better, fix Orb of Wrath and Smite and put a cripple on there somewhere.

i dont know, if smite become a simbol, and the orb fixed, for scepter is ok without a crippling.

Greatsword – Cripple, before you say “But the pull!”, Warrior greatsword.

leap of faith or SOW, definitely need a snare! agree.

Staff – The wards are ok when they work, useless when they don’t. I think reliable wards would be better than a cripple on this one, although a cripple on Symbol of Swiftness would not only make the skill more useful but would stay in line with the symbol’s theme and allow for strategic cripple and/or heal (if traited) placements to assist allies.

agree.

Hammer – As above with wards, I don’t think it needs a cripple really, the immobilise is ok enough, although the misses with it can be frustrating…

hammer is really the only ok weapon for guardians. decent damage, good mobility, chains, knockback(why not knockdown? we need the target NEAR US) and ROW

Mace – I like mace in terms of functionality but its control effectiveness is somewhere between zip and zilch. Maybe a stun or even a knockdown? Works with the other maces, otherwise, mace is a good candidate for any symbol based snare traits at the very least. I remember in beta, Protector’s Strike used to be an AoE knockback, not quite consistent with mace’s playstyle but some kind of knockdown or stun on a skill would fill the gap nicely.

agree. i was thinking something related to a stun for the ones that trigger the effect of protector strike.

Alarox.4590:

Ganzo.5079:

Personal taste, but on this build i prefer to exchange right handed STR, for blind exposure or searing flame.

That’s losing a lot of potential damage. You already have the +30% critical damage so more Precision makes good use of that. Having +15% critical chance is like having +315 Precision; taking this trait means you wont have to gear for Precision.

Im an idiot lol

I was referring to powerfull blades, not right handed str. My bad… :P

Alarox.4590:

^ Yeah, its all about what you’re willing to sacrifice and what you want to play as. I figure most current Guardians won’t want it, as 30 Valor is too appealing, but its still another option (which you can never have too much of).

Well people dont like to sacrice valor 30 just because our class need a costant flow of heal with our low healthpool(and the extra toughness help too lol). Grant some kind (not all the same) of extra healing mechaning through the other traitline can help to use builds that dont need the valor line, but its better to discuss this on a future thread lol, for now a remain strictly tied to my 30 points on valor lol.

Personal taste, but on this build i prefer to exchange right handed STR, for blind exposure or searing flame.

Alarox.4590:

I was thinking more area control as well, rather than the single target that Warriors/Thieves use. Like making Purging Flames cripple/chill or making Spirit Weapon commands cripple/chill.

Regarding weapon skills… there’s a line between balanced and overpowered that can easily be crossed for a lot of weapon skills if they received cripple/chill.

to be honest i think that chill have no reason to be applyed by a guardian. Cripple is strong but remember that is a -50% movement speed that is really good for single target abilities, or single applications.
I made some proposition just on this forum some week ago because to keep a good area control, without be OP, we need something different, a condition that slow the enemy for a 25\30% so it can be keeped up for a “lot” of time.

Tomes are good, but i really dont understand why the skill from 6 to 9 are locked when the tome is up. This lock is what makes tomes, bad elites.

Renewed focus is very good, but its just an improved version of the warrior shield stance, with an higher cooldown.
It dont feel very elite right now, but its definitely our best elite.

Alarox.4590:

Chill/cripple/swiftness itself added does not make the Guardian OP. In fact, it balances them as currently there are few options for an offensive melee Guardian.

However, in conjunction with the current meta bunker builds, a trait like this would surely be overpowered. But, I think a few more inherent cripples/chills/swiftness on utility or weapon skills would not make bunker Guardians overpowered.

(Although, most weapon skills are balanced without cripple/chill, so it would have to be very carefully done, and probably best left to utility skills and traits).

TL;DR: More chills/cripples/swiftness is fine to give all Guardians, as long as its balanced. This trait specifically, would be OP with the current bunker builds, which is why it needs to be a Grandmaster.

Thats why i think that Simbols\consecrations must be touched i bit to provide some sort of snaring.
And im pointing Simbols and consecrations just to distinguish guardian from the other main melee classes.

Warriors and thief have enough tools to reach\snare the enemy, their combat stile is very mobile.

Guardian arent mobile, so they have to keep the enemy on the same area for much time as possible, and effect like simbols and consecration can help for this(if tweaked).
But i have to say that i dont care if they dont use simbols for snare, but i know that our class need them for every weapon (except hammer… maybe)

Naekuh.7925:

You know i think they kinda killed the aspect of playing with people by removing the trinity.

There is no cordination.
Your basically doing your own thing, while other people do there own thing, and sometimes, someone is kind enough to do support.

But this is not all the time.

The holy trinity held players together.
Why? cuz u needed class X to play with class Y to compliment class Z.
This means Class X can not do half things Y and Z can do in a horrible mess which makes you scream, do you know how to build a character right?

I really do wish the trinity system was reimplimented in this game.
It would give more reasons for people to play together and not drift off in there own world and solo 75% of the hours in this game.

So why you bought this game?
I played different games with the trinity and i really enjoy em all, But i choose this one exaclty for the absence of it, and not only me i suppose.

ATTHWSM.7840:

Sigh. Why is it the immediate response from most players that use these joke of forums is " If theres raids I quit " ?

If you love this game, and you play for skins apparently, youd quit over something that your not even interested in?

The game needs endgame, it needs something for its players that dedicate MORE TIME than your casual player that took 3 months to hit 80.

If ANET doesnt come out with some end game, its going to lose its most dedicated players. Why would people continue to play for years when they are never progressing? Your items are always the best, your skills never chance. You never get any kind of alternate or talent points?

If the vast majority of this forums response is " ENJOY THE GAME MAN GET MORE SKINS dont rush through it!" then ya, this game is going to fail.

In the end, I dont understand why the QQ is here. If people wanna raid, let them. If it doesnt interest you, then dont. And kitten trust that ANET will have a plan that allows for progression that isnt exclusive, its what they do.

Wait a sec.

1) dedicated players are not the ones the finish content in 1 week, theese are only player that have more time to spend in game, and this kind of player are never satisfied, no matter what anet can create.

2)maybe you dont get the entire mechanic. They can create raid even if i really dont know why create them when they can create\improve world bosses, but theese encounter cant provive better equipment!
new rare skins? ok!
better droprate of rare material? ok!
better items then the rest of the game content… ABSOLUTELY NO! (15 november patch teach something)

Avatar.1923:

^ guardian is bad in 1vs1.

at least vs
thieves, mesmers and eles.
the whole wvw is filled with them…

i dont know.. make the stealth show just a slight visual (blur) effect only so that its not totally stupid.
as a guardian i dont like pvp, i play thieves and mesmers.

Guardians arent bad on 1v1, but they lack of some mechaninc to reduce heavy kiting.(and on WvW this is really annoying.)
Just from devs concept, guardians are not supposed to be a mobile class or a good ranged class, so the only option they really need is a more accessible slowdown condition, like cripple.

Maybe laurel sistem can be a good incentive to explore the world, but i think they are adding too much things for reward… the game is becoming messy.

Gold, gems, karma, 1 type of badge for every dungeons, and one type for WvW, now laurels. And they are thinking about something new for WvW too.

Now im happy because they are trying to address the problem created by fractals and the ascended tier, But i hope they dont forget about crafting and old dungeons.

Gehenna.3625:

Anet have realised their mistake in that, but that doesn’t mean they have a good solution for it. Will they let people wear Ascended gear at lower level? I dunno. What will happen when you go to PvE? Will you have to (un)equip every time you move from one to the other? Will there be WvW only gear like sPvP? Maybe you know, I haven’t seen the details yet.
.

I really dont think they will let Ascended usable if you are not a TRUE level 80 char.

Its an old proposal, but its not only for the sake of unscathed contender, but mostly because sometime, happed that aegis refresh exaclty when you use the block skill, and if aegis block first, you have just wasted an active skill.

maddoctor.2738:

Ganzo.5079:

Luckily, as main tank of my old guild, i raised my voice to avoid such stupid sistems in favor of a more friendly loot sistem.

What kind of system, care to share with us the details? There isn’t only one DKP out there, that everyone needs to follow for some reason. Every guild uses their own version, one that suits their needs.

As you said, most of the guild use a loot sistem that fit the GUILD Need, and not the player need. One time a member of another guilds just tell something like this:

“The items dropped on raid belong to the guild, and must be used FOR the guild.”

And a sistem like Dkp help the ones that do a lot of raids, and not the ones that really need items.
For my sake, on my old raid group, we was all mature people before to be mature players, so, loot division was quite easy.

Anyway yes we are off topic, this is only a reply to maddoctor

2 years of WOW, and i never, never… NEVER accepted sistem like the DKP.
Luckily, as main tank of my old guild, i raised my voice to avoid such stupid sistems in favor of a more friendly loot sistem.

Once added it will (obviously) bring raiders to the game, and the next step becomes “loots”, “DKP” , “work” and all the rest….

agree, theese are the reasons that put me to left wow in favor of the GW2 concept.

The same explaination used on boardgames.

When and hero leave the home base, he take enough ammonitions for the journey!

point one: i have tryed different solution on over 800 hours of guardian play.

point two: go to read that thread, because i bet you havent read it, you are just tell me to read it because of its title.

point three: im trolling nothing and no one, and if you are accusing me of trolling, just because i dont agree with your incosistent argument, well its a problem of yours.

Heinel.6548:

Ganzo.5079:

lol you have nothing else to say, can you only reply with sarcasm?

It is not sarcasm. The advice being given there is sound, and if they can catch a mesmer with that, they will most likely also catch thieves, and definitely will catch an ele. I don’t think it’s worth repeating the same information here.

Stack swiftness is not so effective because all classes have simply more speed then us with a good ranged options.

Chains are good but you have to use them when the enemy is near(<2 sec of travel) or if you have a teleport\jump out of CD. but they dont last long so you will land maybe one or 2 hit before the enemy start to run away again.

Teleport in general, are only half good, yes you reach the enemy but if he is running, he simply continue to run, without some second of slow.

the only real good combo for now is JI+ROW, this is the only combo i have ALWAYS on my skill set for WvW because its the only that really give to us some melee extra time.

So, if you want a discussion, then discuss. But put some real point, instead of wrong\partial\incorrect things or just sarcastic quotes.

Bakitten291:

Heinel.6548:

Ganzo.5079:

I got Kited!

I guess the “how to deal with mesmer” thread come at a very good time. Start reading it.

Bakitten291:

To my point: Symbols are a basis of our class, we have 6 traits that effect them, 3 major in honor, 3 minor in zeal. Signets have 3 Major traits in only the radiance line. With so many options to customize symbols I think it would make more sense to change one of the 6 out instead of one of the only 3 that alter signets. Also, what exactly is supposed to be changed on signets? giving us the generic speed increasing signet? No thanks, I would much rather have a trait applied to symbols that increases our build diversity than every guardian and their mother running the same one signet.

If you think the symbol hindering mechanic should require traits, then you are in agreement with me. I’m the original person who proposed the concept (at least in the context of this thread).

Ive said that in multiple threads on the guardian forums, make it either a 15/20/25 point trait in zeal and have it give a 2 second chill when first placing the symbol, or a .5 second one on pulse. I personally feel 1 second each pulse might be a bit much since symbols already do damage and supply buffs, and do also have the other augments such as healing, applying vulnerability (which is honestly the one i would like to see switched out for)

Chill is just too overpowered. what we need is just something reduce other classes speed.
-50% speed of cripple is good, but even only a 33% slow effect on simbol can be a really good aid.

lol you have nothing else to say, can you only reply with sarcasm?

Heinel.6548:

Ganzo.5079:

We arent blah blah blah.

Guardians has just as many teleports as a thief. Maybe on somewhat longer cooldowns, but we also don’t die to a sneeze like they do.

What? a thief have teleports with low CD, stealth, good ranged options and high burst damage. ok we can survive, but all class can just Kite us every time. Even if we can teleport(or jump) have no control effect (and blind when someone is running away, is USELESS)

The only thing eles have that puts them at an advantage over guardians is RTL, nothing else.

They can kite us just like all the other classes. When thing go on the worse direction, they RTL or mistform away, And the really High swiftness uptime help them a lot, so man, you are wrong.

SneakyErvin.3056:

Ganzo.5079:

SneakyErvin.3056:

IMO they need to add an inspect option that shows a players MF%.

Im strongly against the inspection mechanic, but im kitten off by People that use MF gear on party.

For me the real solution is simply extend the MF bonus to all the party members(or maybe add a % of your bonus to the rest of the group, and not the full bonus), so in any case you add something to the group.

Agreed I hate inspect, but in MFs case its needed.

Adding MF to the rest of the group solves nothing, its still a very bad stat that offers nothing over pure combat stats. If someone contributes with a whooping 20% MF I rather just 4 man the place or wait a few minutes and find a properly geared 5th person.

I can live without that low extra MF because it will not make any difference.

well 20% is just a poor bonus, a was thinking something like 60\70% of the single man bonus.
If you think on this optic, a full party with MF gear, can have a really good drop rate, and if they wipe, they have just to learn to play better. But if the party survive, good for them :P

SneakyErvin.3056:

IMO they need to add an inspect option that shows a players MF%.

Im strongly against the inspection mechanic, but im kitten off by People that use MF gear on party.

For me the real solution is simply extend the MF bonus to all the party members(or maybe add a % of your bonus to the rest of the group, and not the full bonus), so in any case you add something to the group.

Heinel.6548:

If they have a cripple skill in their bars a lot of the times they aren’t even being utilized. How many people know churning earth actually cripples the targets while channeling? I could even add thieves into this. Any thief with a dagger in offhand has a conveniently spammable, ranged, multi target cripple. But what do you see them actually doing? CnD after CnD. When was the last time you got hit by dancing dagger? A thief has far better things to do than wasting initiative on crippling targets needlessly. In other words, crippling, just doesn’t make that much of a difference in general.

MAke difference for US lol

We arent bulletman (rogue with heart seeker, and many..many… MANY teleports) and we dont have the high mobility of an elementalist. every seconds we can keep the enemy on our attack range, is just unvaluable! chill is to powerfull to be spammed, so the only choice is cripple, or a condition made just for guardian use only.

Warruz.8096:

Ganzo.5079:

mulch.2586:

I have done Orr temples. To me a major difference is the scope and simplicity. If you want to beat them easy, they’re zergable (cept Balthazar, which I’ve only won because it bugged but seems not exactly zergable). Just like with Tequatl and the other dragons, if you have enough people, it’s too easy to be fun because they don’t scale.

So the real solution is not about raids, but with more scalable world events.
Now it can be difficult, but i can say that devs can counter high numbers, only with high numbers. MORE ADDS and stronger boss! just like the LOST SHORE event final boss!

scalability is only part of it. No one wants difficulty in the sense of just slap more health and do more damage, that is not fun. You want mechanics that make it difficult, what if at so many people jormag no longer allows you to huddle together to take damage. Thats the problem with world events like dragons only so much can be done because there is no limit on the amount of people. Only by limiting that does the difficulty go up enough to be considered a challenge.

Really the heart of this argument isnt about raids its about having challenging content that a set group of people can embark on that actually causes you to work together and progress just In a larger group which allows for more mechanics in a fight not just one or two.

You dont get my concept, my bad lol.

They cant powerup a boss too much, but they can add more monsters to the encounter, just to keep busy the high number of players. The real scalability of the encounter, is on the quantity and quality of the ADDS Spawned with the boss.

Heinel.6548:

I am claiming something much more generalizable than 100% chill time. If that example is confusing just skip that part and read the rest of the post at face value.

The trade off for not having burst damage is having higher sustained damage. Guardian auto attacks are already one of the best, if not the best if you are only looking at a DPS meter. That can’t be used as an excuse to get cripple.

Asking for cripple is also a bad thing. How many warriors do you see using cripple? Let’s not even talk about the glass cannons. The balanced ones also use bolas. They use bulls charge. The guardian knockdown and immobilize signets are arguably better versions of those skills with less visually confirmable animations and no chance of missing the target. Even D/D eles, yes they use chill, but when they’re on the offensive, you’re more likely to be caught in a immobilize with that earth grasp skill, more than you get chilled by their pbaoe ice blast. If they have a cripple skill in their bars a lot of the times they aren’t even being used. Dead weight skills, those are.

Every warrior weapon have a movement skill with relatively low Cd and a control effect(mace have no movement, but is all about control), and with cripple they have a 5 point trait that immobilize for 2 sec.

The only guardians weapons that is just perfect, is the hammer because with a 15 sec chain, the ring of warding and Mighty blow, have a good mobility and control across the battlefield. We miss the rest, so asking some more control, is not so OP.

mulch.2586:

I have done Orr temples. To me a major difference is the scope and simplicity. If you want to beat them easy, they’re zergable (cept Balthazar, which I’ve only won because it bugged but seems not exactly zergable). Just like with Tequatl and the other dragons, if you have enough people, it’s too easy to be fun because they don’t scale.

So the real solution is not about raids, but with more scalable world events.
Now it can be difficult, but i can say that devs can counter high numbers, only with high numbers. MORE ADDS and stronger boss! just like the LOST SHORE event final boss!

ErraticFaith.9142:

Guardian mobility in alot of specs needs a complete revamp. Some access to effective cripple would be nice too considering playing chase the mouse regardless of build is just boring.

Engineer needs whatever it had done to it in the last major patch revoked because I barely see them these days :/

Necro as above, but the class is boring too. It probably needs the most reworking of all.

D/D ele shouldnt be the only viable spec. It needs its survivability vs damage toned town in that stance. Buff staff.

Warrior needs improved damage distribution over its weapon sets. Eviscerate or 100b and then omg ‘Im a warrior get me out of here!’ technique isnt fun for them.

Thief needs more fun factor, and build diversity generally.

In short mainly pvp changes from a pvper’s persepctive and I’ve left out the few professions I havent tried. Game needs alot of work imo.

Very Synthetic, but its all true. nothing else to say.

Frellin.6318:

But Velkin brings up a very good point with the following statement:

Velkyn.5168:

Even if I never set foot in a raid in GW2, I am very sure that their very existence would already affect me and my gaming experience in a negative way.

The entire feel of the game can change based on new content. People used to be all over the events throughout Orr, Malchor’s Leap, and Straights of Devastation. People were running all kinds of dungeons. With the new tier of gear in Fractals of the Mists people changed how they played the game and funneled into the new dungeon. Now people complain about waypoints for dungeons being contested.

Introducing raids would have to be done very carefully or you risk destroying what Arenanet has already said they want their endgame to be. Arenanet’s mistake with fractals is exactly what they are trying to fix with the patches in January and February.

As a PvP player you want to know what my biggest concern is? Playing PvP against PvE players who have a gear advantage over me in PvP. If Arenanet were to make the same mistakes with a raid as they have with the fractals dungeon then I would leave this game. I am all for equality. I am against being at a disadvantage in PvP because I choose to not partake in certain PvE aspects.

I think this too, even if WvW is for the major part a zergfest(for now), all players have the same right to have the same equipment and bonuses, and not being disvantaged because they are WvW players only.

Direksone.3867:

In essence raids stand for what GW stands for: coming together and doing huge epic fights, no you say? Explain the Dragon fights then. Oh right. I am not saying they are perfect, but in essence that is what a raid is.

There is a huge difference.
In the standard raid model, you prepare the group and then you go to the raid, only with your group!

The world bossed are just casual you can join it without a group. SO if add raid is equal to add more world bosses, yes its ok, and with new areas and expansions, they will surely add other world bosses (i hope like the ancient karka fight, that was awesome as boss)
But if add raids is equal to add 10\25 man istances with better loot then the rest of the game, well you are just playing the wrong game.