Not entirely true. We wanted difficult to get gear, but we wanted it to be cosmetic only. Difficulty is part of the appeal for hunting super rare skins. However, because it’s cosmetic is totally optional.
Agreed. I should have been clearer. We didn’t need difficult to get stats. Unfortunately, even in this game, I tend to only see armor as stats and not cosmetics because, frankly…there aren’t a lot of cosmetics =/
Also, not entirely true, but again goes back to the cosmetic thing. Its an optional thing, that a person chooses to do because they want that particular skin, and that by no means should be removed or downplayed. .
My bad again. Once again, referring to stats.
Ascended sort of kicks this in the teeth, since many will feel it is a necessity for any number of reasons.
Indeedilydoo
especially when it’s absolutely unnecessary.
Great, so since Ascended is so unnecessary, we can get rid of it.
Problem solved.
Ascended isn’t necessary to complete content. It’s there for people who are after progression.
Why hate on that?
Because the moment those people finish, they’ll want the next tier of gear. They’ll also want content based around the power of said gear. At which point the treadmill begins and Ascended and future gear tiers become mandatory in order to complete content.
And if those people wanted vertical progression, then why did they come to a game that said time and again during the design phase that it wasn’t going to have vertical progression, but horizontal progression.
We were fine with just exotic. We didn’t need Ascended. We didn’t need difficult to get armor. We didn’t need this grind.
especially when it’s absolutely unnecessary.
Great, so since Ascended is so unnecessary, we can get rid of it.
Problem solved.
As mentioned, exclusivity is a pre-requisite of ‘epic’
Except it isn’t. If you look at the definition of epic, there is no requirement of exclusivity at all.
What is your criteria for ‘epic’ loot?
It has to look cool. Impressively so. At least SAB quality in terms of design and looks. (not 8-bit, necessarily. But SAB items have real quality to their design).
In the case of a LS reward, it should come from the meta, or if tied to the “final boss” directly, should drop upon being part of that boss defeat. No RNG silliness.
I don’t care if that means every other person in the game also has that item. That won’t stop me from using it, as long as the item in question is aesthetically pleasing to me.
(edited by Gene Archer.8560)
If everyone gets ‘epic loot’, then is it really epic?
Yes, as long as the loot in question has an impressive feel and look to it.
I guess we differ on the feeling of accomplishments when it comes to ‘epic’.
For me, epic is something that is scarce and looks great. It makes you stand out and feel unique because you achieved something that many others cannot.
If everyone in this game who completes season 1 achievements for ‘epic’ loot ends up getting a nice skin set, the excitement over that skin set will disappear rather quickly. You’ll see it everywhere and you don’t feel special. That’s not epic, IMO.
Same thing happened when AP rewards came out. Everyone and their mother started carrying the AP skins and the novelty quickly came off. Now I don’t associate AP skins with prestige or ‘epic’. It’s more of a poor man’s skin.
What you’re describing isn’t epic, though. What you’re describing is exclusive.
They aren’t the same thing.
Something is fully capable of being epic without being exclusive.
If everyone gets ‘epic loot’, then is it really epic?
Yes, as long as the loot in question has an impressive feel and look to it.
People are turning this into a much larger problem than it really is, literally.
No, they aren’t. Literally.
but many of them admit they already bought the pick anyway.
I’ve only seen a few say that. I haven’t seen this many that you speak of in regards to buying the other pick. I’ve certainly seen people say they bought the pick who also don’t have a problem with said pick, though.
the devs do not reverse their decisions based on the whims of a few forum members.
That’s funny considering that’s exactly what they did with the Flamekissed armor.
and they aren’t going to dignify the complaints with a response.
At this point, this is what hurts the most. Apparently telling the forums that the Seahawks won is more important than at least communicating with customers that have concerns, saying something, anything, in regards to something like this. Allaying fears, and the like.
But when all a company gives is silence?
Apparently Tier 3 Cultural Armor is important enough to get Anet’s attention, but the precedent of something like the pick is meaningless.
Why is this even an issue anyway?!
I’d explain, for the hundredth time, but you won’t get it. You’ll never get it.
I’ll try and put it in simple words for you, though, in the hopes that maybe you’ll get it this way: For all my complaints, I still see a lot of potential for this game. I wouldn’t criticize the watchwork pick if I didn’t think GW2 was capable of better. I don’t want to see a good game become another Maple Story or TOR.
Well, you guys can all quit playing now. I have amassed 2 billion Watchwork Sprockets and have now won the game.
You all lose. I win.
It’s not about sprockets. It was never about sprockets.
Why do you people continue to ignore this? Why do you continue to blatantly ignore this? If all you want to do is troll, leave this thread. Please.
I am an older Player. As such, I have learned somethings are just not worth getting in a stew about. I have seen my parents get older, I have seen my better half have a stroke and almost die, My beloved cat did die…This pick, and the threat of future gathering tools with perks in the gem store, to me, is not something to lose sleep over.
You don’t have to lose sleep over something to have a problem with it.
I’m a younger player, but I’ve been through similar situations to yourself. I lost my dad during summer vacation just before my senior year due to his exposure to chemicals in Vietnam. That same year we lost my Aunt who had been living with us. 2 years later we had to put my Labrador down.
I bring those things up to respond as such: I still see this pick as an issue. I still see it as something that needs fixed. I don’t think ignoring a perceived problem by “just dealing with it” means that you’ve put on big boy/girl pants, either.
Even if it’s something that’s not that important, it’s good to speak up. At least, that’s what I feel.
It’s the assumptions of it necessarily becoming worse I find more annoying.
Businesses are always pushing the envelope. To say that assumptions of this worsening is without merit is to ignore at least 50 years of modern marketing, if not the entirety of marketing since its inception.
So, does this all matter? Not really. Guild Wars 2 is doomed to fail due to simple, inevitable entropy. Eventually, at some future time, the game is going to shut down. Next week, next year, next decade. In the face of that inevitability, nothing matters.
I had more responses to your points, but I deleted them after reading this, because;
>Asks me several times why I’m still here and playing this game
>Proceeds to play the “nothing ultimately matters” card
I don’t know whether you’re just trying to troll or not at this point, but I don’t really care. I’m done responding to you. You’re not going to agree with me, I’m not going to agree with you. Nothing more can be obtained from our communicating and nothing of value can be added to the thread or the discussion, especially from yourself.
If you really think this thread is that worthless, and that nothing ultimately matters, I would suggest you stop posting.
First – Sprockets being available is an issue as a precedent, but there is perhaps a line they set internally knowing sprockets are available in large quantities when the Queen’s Pavilion is open. Something they have alluded to being possible in the future so the Gauntlet is active again. If there are other unlimited gathering items which allow for bonus gains, I would expect they be tempered in just that way. Furthermore, they have allowed it to produce an item which is still available right now, still can be made available to people widely right now in their home instance.
That doesn’t matter to the point being made. It has never mattered to the point being made. Why do you keep bringing up sprockets when sprockets aren’t what the issue is about?
The problem is that the pick generates anything extra AT ALL. That there is no item in the game itself that does anything similar. It doesn’t matter that it’s sprockets.
At this point you are purposefully ignoring the point being made and attempting to say the argument is about sprockets. STOP IT.
Secondly – Everyone seems to assume this precedent will be chased to incredible, hyperbolic representations. “First they introduce something which generates an extra item, next it starts generating valuable materials, and finally next year we get a pick producing Ectoplasm or straight up gold coins!” It’s telling how many people immediately reach for the concept ArenaNet is going to screw over the players, hard, and there is no other possibility than it coming to pass. It’s almost offensive to consider how this interesting idea is being regarded as “the end of decency” or similar representations of extreme hyperbole.
That is the position Anet has placed itself in with its customers through the actions they’ve taken in the past. From Ascended Gear to the Flamekissed Armor and what have you. As the company, their decisions have created this mistrust.
If you continue to focus on the hyperbole, you will always miss the point being made. Regardless of how hyperbolic anything being said is, it will remain truth that a precedent is set with this if it is left alone. You’re welcome to disagree on how severe it will be in the future, but you cannot argue the lack of a precedent being set.
The funny thing is, as I stated in the other topic ankitten ot afraid to keep stating: those who worry ArenaNet has strayed from the path of the righteous? Pay to win already existed back in GW1 with the Skill Unlock Packs. Trying to say this is the “first step” doesn’t hold water for me if you’re going to say any advantage through real cash is “pay to win”.
I’m not saying this is pay to win, though. The pick gives a distinct advantage. That is true. This creates a precedent that can be used later down the line. This is true. It breeds mistrust in the consumers because of the obsolescence of earlier picks and the thought of “why buy one now when the next will be better?”. This is true.
That’s all I’m saying. Never once have I called this pay to win. Vol didn’t really, either.
(edited by Gene Archer.8560)
The time is Neigh, The End is NEAR!
If you don’t actually want to contribute meaningfully, why are you here?
Please just because they come out with this one item doesn’t mean there going to start making it attached to economic cornerstones and high value items.
Perception is everything. Whether they do or not, people now have the feeling they will, or even just can (which they can), and this erodes trust. Erosion in trust means erosion in sales, because what’s the point in getting this pick if an even better one is going to come out?
But, if saying it over and over is enough for you to accept it as fact, please proceed.
It -is- fact. Because I’m not saying that they will do this. I’m saying that the precedent is there for them to do it -again-. Which it -is-.
It doesn’t have to happen multiple times for a precedent to be set.
(edited by Gene Archer.8560)
It’s happening, it has happened. The item, with a distinct bonus, is right in front of you, and yet this isn’t them showing plans or intents?
…Really? I’m sorry, but really?
The precedent is right here, right now. The precedent is being set. It only takes it happening once for it to continue in the future.
That’s okay. You don’t need to explain it to me; I already understand. I just try not to speak in absolutes when voicing my opinions.
Sorry ‘bout that, it’s so hard to tell anymore, because people are still showing up and attributing the problem to sprockets.
I’m not sure if giving players more opportunities to get sprockets (without spending gems or finishing achievements) would help the core issue of this matter, but it might temper some frustrations.
It would not at all help the core issue, as the core issue isn’t sprockets. The issue is that there is an item, available only through the gem store and nowhere else in the game, that gives a distinct advantage to those with said item compared to those without. Added to that is the issue this creates with past owners of the permanent tools and the lack of consumer faith this creates.
The core issue, then, is the entire precedent this creates and the damage it can do now, and in the future, to the integrity of the game.
I All gem store items are accessible by converting gold to gems.
But conversion is irrelevant, per your own words.
The gem store is in game. Whether you can get gems with gold or real money is irrelevant. Please pay attention to that fact.
No, the gem store is auxiliary to the game. It’s a part of the game, but it’s not -in- the game.
Aside from that, you still have not told me where else in the game, aside from the gem store, which is a cash shop, I can get a pick that gives a specific bonus.
Gold to gems and voila. You don’t have to spend real life money.
No, not voila.
I’ll ask again: Where in the game, aside from the gemstore, can you get a pick with that kind of bonus?
Please pay attention to the question.
-snip for sake of space since my reply is short-
The solutions being suggested in this thread are no different than the last thread. The thread didn’t start to devolve (and I don’t think it devolved bad enough to warrant the closing to begin with) until a number of posters showed up and continued to either, willingly or otherwise, miss the point of the thread and continue to claim that the argument had to do just with sprockets, which they view as worthless.
The precedent that future scavenge items will offer additional bonuses to getting items that are already available (and will remain so) to players in-game? Yep. A very dangerous precedent indeed.
And where else in the game, aside from the gem store, can you get a pick that gives a bonus chance to get “specific item x” ?
Again, to everyone: The sprockets aren’t what’s important. The importance is the precedent this sets.
Here’s Vol’s post on it, saved it the moment I saw what happened.
[i] If you haven’t noticed, a new infinite mining pick has been released which also provides a 20% chance of sprockets.
I have absolutely no problem with infinite tools. They are convenience.
But a chance to get a material that cannot be gathered by other tools? This is P2W.
When scarlet is gone, we more than likely will not be able to get sprockets anymore outside of two sources – the node in your instance and these picks.
It doesn’t matter that sprockets may not have as high value, and that 20% is still low. It sets a dangerous precedent, however, of introducing unique, non-vanity features to future items to generate sales.
Seriously Anet, take this from your no.1 fanboy – this is not cool.
The ‘best’ compromise is to provide older unlimited tools with a similar bonus ore. But personally I would prefer if there were no bonuses at all. Just leave the animation there and sell it for 1000 gems.
edit1: as another mentioned, the other best compromise is to include other temporary picks with the 20% chance, i.e. orichalcum pick with 20% chance at watchwork [/i]
[b]An important note to anyone that responds to the thread:
The sprockets don’t matter. Nobody who has a problem with this has a problem with the sprockets. The sprockets could be “X” “Y” or “Z”
That’s where the problem lies. In the precedent an item like this sets. [/b]
The eternal struggle at getting italic and bold to work continues…
(edited by Gene Archer.8560)
Whether it’s “P2W” or not is a semantic red herring.
It’s a very, very bad idea.
Store-only advantages are not just dangerous, but game-breaking.
ArenaNet, please abandon this madness, lest ye be abandoned in kind — and richly deserve it.
This right here.
This is all that matters. The precedent this sets is a bad one, plain and simple. To defend it is to defend the very things that have destroyed other games with cash shops.
You don’t wait for the hole in the dam to be a big enough problem that it’ll burst and flood the nearby village. You plug the hole and reinforce the dam before it gets to that point, so that the problem can never exist.
If this game feels like work to you, how hasn’t Darwinism killed you off yet?
Because being willing to work in a game and being willing to work in real life are two entirely separate things.
It seems a number of gamers are completely unable to grasp such a concept.
TL;DR: if gw2 is too hard go play simon says.
If GW2 isn’t challenging enough, go play EVE Online.
If you play a game that just lets you win without requiring skill or getting better at the game then what is the point of playing a game?
The story? The shinies? The overall experience? The characters? The world? The ability to just run around and smash a baddie on the head? To just relax and enjoy yourself rather than worry about the next timed event or next challenge?
Server population too low to succeed on the Marionnette fight ? Don’t make me laugh, I don’t think there are server with less than 150 active people at a given time of the day. And even if there were some, ANet included server guesting. .
Server guesting is a bandaid at best with its own problems. As for not making you laugh?
Come on over to Devona’s Rest and then tell me that the server population is just fine. In fact, every single player that thinks server populations are just fine, please. Come to Devona’s Rest. Maybe then the server will have the numbers it needs.
Look at previous living story updates, it was easy plod along content with skins that EVERYONE was able to get, and they STILL don’t use them,
I barely see anyone using cosmetics that have dropped via easy going plod along living story content, see backpacks and shoulder skins etc that plague everyones bank space.
This is one thing where I truly can only speak on my own behalf, but, well, most of those skins? They weren’t very aesthetically pleasing. That injector thing from the tower of nightmares? I run a freaking Asura and I still couldn’t get that thing to match up with my gear and look cool. And it was a tech backpack!
But well, most of those easy skins don’t look cool to me at least. And that’s all I ever go off of, if a skin looks cool to me, I’ll want it. Doesn’t matter if it’s a piddly common or the king of rares, it just has to look cool. Well, cool to me, at any rate.
" The entire game was never for you ", so why did arenanet say this content requires highly co-ordinated players and encourages people to critique their builds etc, when clearly casual players don’t do that.
Because ever since Ascended, Anet has been continually caving to the hardcores and the challenge seekers. And it’s created a muddled game.
Perhaps there IS room for both casual easy content and hard content in a game.
I don’t disagree. But then, as I’ve said: Hard content should be instanced. It can’t be placed in the Overworld. It doesn’t work, there.
But if they’re just going to keep putting the hard content in the overworld, and not actually section if off, if they’re going to keep making the hard content the Living Story, and not separate properly, like they mostly did with the Queen’s Gauntlet, then I’d rather the hard content just not exist at all.
Better that the content not exist than exist in the way it currently does and just exclude and frustrate players.
Also you said " At least when I want an easy game, it doesn’t exclude people from rewards or content " You still experience the content, you will never down it unless you improve but you can experience it while still getting the rewards.
If I don’t down wurm or marionette, how do I still get the rewards specific to them? There’s more to the rewards than just the meta.
The only thing you don’t get? Purely cosmetic skins. How does that not seem fair?
Because the “purely cosmetic skins” are content, they’re the main pull of the game. You know, this was a game based on cosmetics, after all. So I’m being excluded from content.
But of course, you’ll disagree.
Then go play the relaxing entertaining content?
I have? I’d like to take part in the new content as well…you know, cause it’s new and such? Cause the Living Story is what Anet is selling as the game at the moment?
Why should all content a game makes be focused to you?
Not all content, but certainly Living Story, since Living Story is the main content and needs to be accessible by the lowest common denominator, since it’s become the point of the game.
they have already stated this content aka the Wurm etc not normal world bosses were designed for very co-ordinated players,
And they’ve also stated their intent to bring the other world bosses up to the levels of Teq and Wurm.
Guess who loses out on content once they do that?
Then this content is not for you.
This entire game was never for you. It was supposed to be easier and more casual. Not another WoW Raidfest.
Difficult content is sorely needed,
No, it’s not.
Just sit this one out, it’s blatantly obvious this is not for you, so realise this and stop forcing your opinion onto others that play to challenge and improve themselves.
If you want a relaxing experience there’s plenty of other options for you. Like singleplayers.
If you want challenge, there is literally every other mmo out there. There’s even Korean Grinders for you to gnash your teeth at. I shouldn’t be relegated to singleplayer games just because I want something easy.
Furthermore, do challenge seekers sit out the easy content? No, they do it in two hours and then complain that it wasn’t challenging. Why should I have to sit out content while they get to do easy content, complain about it, and then also get hard content that excludes people?
You have a lot of nerve to tell me not to force my opinion on others only to then force your opinion on me.
I’ll say this much on that: At least when I want an easy game, it doesn’t exclude anyone from experiencing the content or the rewards.
ANet is spot on the money. PvE has been far too easy for far too long and it’s spoiled players into thinking that anything that requires effort = too much effort.
No, it’s been easy to you. I still have plenty of problems soloing around in the overworld from time to time. And I’ve done my research, I’ve chosen the skills and traits and weapons that best fit my abilities and playstyle and I’ve done the practicing that comes with it.
I know my limits. And things like Marionette go well beyond that, even though I have managed to help take down chains here and there and do my best to not be a burden. But I still know where my limit is, and if this trend continues, I will be excluded from the new content, very soon. My computer, my reaction time, my knowledge, my skill, and my server are all at their limits, already.
You call it being defeatist, I call it not overtaxing what is already on the threshold. And frankly, I like easy. And I think that’s where we’re going to ultimately disagree, and never come to a consensus. Because I like easy and you don’t.
And at the end of the day, I’m just going to keep saying it:
Quit forcing people to improve. It’s not fun. If that kind of content really must be in the game, instance it. But don’t do that with the Open World, and definitely don’t do it with the Living Story.
The Living Story is the new content. It should always be completable by even the lowest common denominator. Every time.
What a joke, you should all strive to improve, should olympians stop striving to improve at their sport? Should drug attics stop trying to better themselves as a person?
Quit using examples of the real world for a game that’s about entertainment and nothing else. Stop trying to force people to improve.
Just. Stop.
If I want to become a better person, I will do so in real life, where being a better person matters. All I want from a video game is a relaxing, entertaining ride.
…but they’re right on that open world players need to get a lot better.
No, they aren’t right. That’s what a lot of you don’t seem to be getting.
You can’t force someone to get better. You just can’t.
Furthermore, saying that completely ignores that everyone has a set skill level, and furthermore, skill cap. A lot of you call it being bad, or lazy. But players can put in all the hard work they can and still not break through to the next level. People have limits and thresholds.
the skill level Anet made the Marionette for because they expect open world PvE players to also be at that level.
And I’m saying that’s the problem. That Anet expects players to have a certain skill level. Especially that they expect a certain, uniform skill level in Open World content.
If you think beating the marionette is a job, seriously. Go home.
The event goes best with preparation beforehand including being there early to avoid overflow, lining up and being assigned a role, following a commander, and knowing what to do in the fights ahead of time, showing up at specific times, etc.
That is the very essence of old school raiding. And old school raiding was a job.
So yes, I think Marionette is a job. I think anything that falls into the category of raiding is a job. Because that’s how you hardcore uber!elite tryhards treat it. If someone doesn’t fall in line with your level of skill, they’re trash to be tossed aside. MMO as a genre would be better if your kind didn’t exist, because you take every ounce of fun out of every game you touch. Gaming would be better without you or your ilk.
Or you know what? On second thought, I’d love to hear your thoughts after trying the new wurm event. I could use a good laugh.
Tried it. Tried it three times in fact. Gave each wurm a shot. Hate it. Especially despise that it wasn’t actually advertised as what it was supposed to be: Hardcore content. Despise that it’s in a lower level zone despite being geared for level 80s. Wish Anet would stop making raid content altogether. This game never needed it. Especially wish they’d stop making it because it means yet another event that my server must ignore. Because we simply don’t have the numbers and never will.
Josh: Love the Marri- despite the frustration caused by watching a group of baddies fail.
Can I suggest a more focused training program for the individual for a future patch?
You’d need to make it essentially mandatory, either by rewards or locking Legendaries, level 80 or something behind it.
Have something that specifically teaches dodges, something that specifically requires trait swapping, something that specifically teaches positioning.
I’d love some harder content, and if the only way to get it is ensuring the playerbase is competent then it’s really up to you guys to actively push it forwards systematically and not just hope people pick things up while being carried by others.
The moment you do any of this, it stops being a game and becomes a job. It becomes work.
That isn’t fun, period.
I’m sorry, challenge seekers. The time of the WoW raid and excluding content from the masses is over. You can’t force people to get better. You can’t keep turning games into jobs.
Can the average player skill be raised by challenging content like this?
I truly wish devs and players alike would stop trying to force other players to “get better at the game”.
If the average players wants to improve their skills, they will improve their skills. What you’re trying to do is force people to improve their skills. And yes, it is forcing because if they don’t get better, then they don’t get to take part in the content and take part in the rewards.
High failure isn’t fun. Tension isn’t fun. Feeling hopelessness and dread because your server can never muster the numbers to have a shot at success isn’t fun. Feeling like you’re being forced to get better isn’t fun.
There are still so many issues like server population that you guys just aren’t taking into account, and yet you’re still trying to make these gigantic events that require more and more skill each time. Eventually, you’re going to be excluding too many players all in the name of “challenge” and “skill”.
I’m tired of hearing about it because it’s just plain not helpful or constructive in any way.
Frankly, it’s all people have left to rally around, because…
Got a specific suggestion? Post it. Got something specific you don’t like? Post it. Open up a decent discussion topic.
…This right here. You think this hasn’t been done? You think people haven’t tried this? Quit acting like that’s some new concept that people haven’t attempted.
Back in 2012, there was a gigantic thread about Ascended Gear. There were several in fact. I remember because I followed them. I posted in at least one of them and made my feelings known.
Know what happened to it? It got “looked at” by the devs before getting sent to the trash bin as Ascended Weapons and Armor got rolled out with nothing from that thread having ever been considered.
There has been a kittening years worth of feedback about stuff like this. About concepts like VP. About things like grind. About horizontal progression. All of it.
All that happens is that the devs “look at it” and “consider the feedback”, and then the thread disappears into obscurity with nothing ever changed.
I bet the same will ultimately happen with the current Character Progression CDI. But you know what? I did post in it. Several times now. I’ve made my feelings and opinions known.
Know who hasn’t posted his thoughts in that thread? Know who hasn’t told the devs his opinion on concepts like Vertical Progression, Horizontal Progression, and how the game can be improved?
The local white knight. Because he’s too busy telling players they’re wrong in threads that involve:
Discussing a glorified three year old commercial
that is supposedly
is beyond pointless.
And yet, for all the “pointlessness”, here you guys are, in this thread.
But of the playing population of the game, I suspect most people are tired of hearing about this.
I suspect it’s really just you, krall, and a few others that are tired hearing about this.
After all, the playing population is too busy playing the game and enjoying it to bother with forums. Supposedly.
And honestly, until things change back at least to some degree, Anet will never hear the end of it. It will be their Albatross. And they brought it on themselves.
(edited by Gene Archer.8560)
It’s usually in response to other people saying the game isn’t doing well, which they can’t know…they can only guess at.
They’re going off of things like how their own server is doing. What the general consensus is within their server. How their server feels. Etc. etc.
The conversation is simple and it’s being repeated so this will be my last post on the subject.
I’ll believe it when I see it.
This game is significantly different from other MMOs. Know how I know? I don’t like most other MMOs and I do like this one. So it would be hard to prove they were the same.
And this game ultimately isn’t all that different from other MMOs. Know how I know? I don’t like most other MMOs and I’ve stopped liking this one, too. So it would be hard to prove they weren’t the same.
The combination of factors such as that make the manifesto a truth statement, not a false one.
They make it a truth to you. They make it a truth in your eyes.
But my experiences with the game and with people I’ve shown the game to show me otherwise.
The fact that people have fixated on gear grind as the only basis for comparison doesn’t factor into the argument at all.
So we’re going to ignore how alt-unfriendly the game has become? Or how about the time gating. Or how about how raids are slowly cropping their way in? Dailies? Monthlies?
You’re really going to argue that there are no other comparisons to other MMOs?
And uh, the gear grind is actually a big deal since that’s one of the core features of EVERY OTHER MMO OUT THERE. So yeah, it factors in. It factors in a whole kittening lot.
WoW has low pop servers too.
Oh, but haven’t you heard? Guild Wars 2 has no low pop servers!
That was sarcasm, by the way.
Not sure what this intends to prove.
That the population isn’t all roses and sunshine as you always like to claim it is.
And there really isn’t anything to debate.
Then stop posting.
We know for a fact that Anet didn’t have gear progression at launch and we know for a fact that that situation changed a couple of months after the game was released.
Those are the facts. Everything else is supposition.
So then your constant claim that the game wasn’t doing well and the sudden shift was necessary is also supposition and guesswork? Cool. Thanks for finally admitting it.
I’m not putting anything forward as fact, except for the fact that this lack of vertical progression took up only a tiny tiny percentage of the amount of information Anet released about Guild Wars 2. That’s a fact.
You know what else is a fact? The percentage that information took up is meaningless. It’s something that people really latched on to when it came to their decision to purchase this game. It’s one of the things that helped push people to purchase this game.
That’s a fact.
And I’m relatively certain that the manifesto mentioned nothing about gear grind at all, or vertical progression.
I’m not even going to get into this part. I’ve seen what happens when people try to discuss the manifesto with you. It never ends. It just devolves into a worthless debate of he said she said, and at the end you go on your merry way continuing to defend decisions that have hurt and divided this game and its community.
Again, I invite you to DR. The server that is eternally among the lowest in WvW. The server that, last I checked, still hasn’t killed Tea Kettle since the big ol’ revamp.
You don’t have a clue as to the population of the game. No one does except Anet.
And yet you always put yours forward as fact, without numbers.
But Anet didn’t make this decision likely.
Oh, I think they did.
Are you suggesting the game population was fine, everything was going swell and so Anet drastically changed direction, over night?
No. Rather, I suggest that things may not have going entirely as planned and instead of actually giving the game some time to properly grow, Anet made a horribly snap decision without truly looking into the actual data.
I think they hit the big ol’ PANIC button without actually thinking through just what that would mean and the consequences it would have.
We don’t know. But the forums back then,
But the forums are just a minority of the playerbase.
After all, that’s what everyone says now in order to dismiss any criticism of the game that is brought up. Even you have said as such. Why do the forums matter back then, but not now?
Because population drop? Come on over to my server. We’re the only server to not have any Tea Kettle kills. Tell me how great and vast our population must be and how it hasn’t dropped, good old DR.
Ok another brainstorm idea.
What if certain pieces of ascended gear could be crafted and sold on the TP such as gloves and boots?
Chris
If you use this path, it shouldn’t just be certain. It should be all.
But even that won’t help the problem if the gear still remains ultimately unavailable, whether through prohibitive cost or prohibitive mats.
If the gear is Fractals only, so that it can’t affect the rest of the world. Fine, whatever. It can stay in Fractals and players who like vertical progression will simply have to accept the tradeoff that Fractals probably can’t be Living Story content anymore (because that would lock out a number of players who don’t play Fractals. Obviously Fractals would still receive updates, just not as Living Story content)
But if Ascended and whatever other vertical progression is going to be part of the entire game, then it has to be easily accessible. No ifs, and or buts. Because if it’s part of the world, at some point, you’ll have to design content around that gear. And that will lock people out of said worldly content when they can’t deal with the prohibitive cost, whatever that cost might be.
My opinion as a player is that the current drop rates could be tweaked.
With all due respect, and I do apologize because I know how this is going to sound: It’s not a case of “could be tweaked”. It’s a case of “Absolutely needs tweaked.” The current form just doesn’t work if Ascended Gear is going to be gear that exists in the entirety of the game.
(edited by Gene Archer.8560)
I don’t know what to say that hasn’t already been said in 10 pages.
I don’t like Ascended Gear in its current form. BiS gear should be easy to get. If the point of gear is to help you move along in the game and play the game, then it should be easy to get. It shouldn’t be time gated. It shouldn’t be mat gated. It shouldn’t be gold gated. It just shouldn’t be gated, period.
In its current form, Ascended takes far too long to obtain, and is far too cost prohibitive. Especially for a game where stats affect builds as much as in this game.
On the note of making the gear truly accessible: If you’re going to design something and say that it can drop from certain content, then it NEEDS to actually drop. None of this 1 in 1 million Rivendale’s Haunted Horse nonsense. If there’s the chance that a player questing after something will never see it within a year’s time, then the RNG in that instance is bad.
As for the best character progression system I’ve ever encountered? The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim.
No, seriously. It has been the best progression system I’ve ever seen in a game. Because the levels don’t matter. They don’t. No matter what you do, some of your skills will go up, and in turn you will level. You can beat the game in rags at level 1 if you want to.
But you won’t. Because better gear is guaranteed. And stats are guaranteed. Because you’re going to maybe sneak around. Or cut someone down. Or cast magic missile at the darkness. And in doing so, you will gain skill in that, and you will level. And as you journey, you’ll complete quests, or raid a temple, or kill a bandit on the highway, or become a blacksmith. And no matter, you’ll get better, or different gear.
And it won’t be hard or challenging. And for that part: That’s a good thing. I promise you, that IS a good thing.
Because the challenge is going to come from the rest of the game. How you decide to fight. Whether you decide to go in, guns blazing, or sneak around the back. How you’ve ultimately built the character. Whether or not you want to risk going into the group of 40 bandits. Because are you actually prepared to take them on? Are you ready to slay that dragon?
Maybe all you’re missing is that small boost to power. You need that +3 Rat Flail as opposed to your current +2 Butter Knife.
The best part about Skyrim is that you can get that Rat Flail. You’ll actually see it during your time playing the game. And it won’t be a hassle to do it. You might have to complete a quest to do it, but that’s all. And along the way, you’ll progress no matter what, because you’ll be using the skills you want to use.
I guess an easier way to put my feelings is this: If I wanted a time-gated, mat-gated, gold-gated gear game where I would never see BiS gear. I’d just go back to every other MMO that has ever been released before GW2 was a thing.
I don’t want vertical progression games anymore. I’m tired of them. They aren’t fun, and honestly, I now realize that they never were. I want horizontal progression. I want easy gear, and if I want a challenge, I want to get something shiny from it.
I want to raid the mayor’s house for his jewel encrusted sword because it’s jewel encrusted. Not because it’s +4 over my crusty baguette of frenchiness.
RNG may be RNG. But RNG is also most certainly horrible game design.
And John Smith has most certainly been a pox on the fun of this game.
This game was advertise to BOTH types of players. People who dislike conventional MMOs, and people who love it.
But ultimately to people who don’t like the conventional MMO. Thus the whole thing where BiS was supposed to be easy to achieve.
And some people still play GW1. The point here is that when you achieve all your goals, the player tends to move on. Anet wants to prevent that by continuously giving us something to do. If players stay in the game, with stuff to do and goals to achieve, they’ll more likely do more microtransactions.
So then do that with actual content and not gear-grinds. Bring out more skills and skins. Like what was originally supposed to happen. Horizontal progression rather than vertical grind.
Again, vocal minority.
Yes, yes. Vocal minority doesn’t matter. Blah blah blah. I’ve seen that tripe used in other forums, too. It’s a crappy argument at best.
I’d say the fact something like the CDI threads exist shows just how important the forums actually are.
But you of course will disagree. I expect nothing less of you at this point.
But asking for everything here and now for instant gratification is something Anet (or any game smart game company) will never do.
Asking for easy BiS gear is not asking for everything, though. But feel free to ignore that fact.
The game already has gear in place that a Casual player can get: Exotics. If you want BiS, you need to invest time to get them.
Which, yet again, and please quit ignoring this, goes against the original stated intention of this game.
By speeding up the process for Casuals, you then must speed up the process for Hardcore players. Then we have the problem of maximizing gear all over. Hardcore players will reach the goals too quickly, and will demand more progression.
Hardcore players are going to demand more progression no matter what. Making it take longer isn’t going to change that. And frankly, hardcore players aren’t supposed to be here. This was never the game for them. They have literally every other MMO out there.
Then the cycle continues, with Anet having to consider another tier.
Which they will have to do anyway now that they’ve pandered to the hardcore gear grinders.