Ridiculing someone doesn’t make them wrong either.
It does in this instance, as I will explain below.
The future will prove Anet wrong or right.
Your tunnel vision is showing.
I was facepalming your need to defend yourself from a post that was openly and admittedly labeled as pure snark. I literally left no wiggle room for anyone to take that post seriously and you still managed to take it seriously by bothering to even respond to it.
Apparently 10 tons of snark isn’t enough. I’ll be sure to order 20 next time.
(edited by Gene Archer.8560)
It’s not my data, it is Anet’s. I simply believe they did those tests and got the results they said they did.
There are not enough pictures of Facepalming Picard in the universe to properly emphasize just how hard I am facepalming at this very moment.
The magnitude may well set off the Richter Scale.
Just watched that video, and pretty much everything he said is exactly how I feel, too. (also as a new play with a little over a week’s experience)
Sorry, but Colin and Vayne’s hard data and metrics clearly tell you that you’re wrong. This is what’s best for the game and you.
(for the record, this post is laced with 10 tons of snark)
(edited by Gene Archer.8560)
What something’s called doesn’t equate to why it was designed.
Coming from the semantics guy.
Colin was pretty clear about player retention for people just starting being a problem and it had to be fixed.
Yes, and it’s done damage. Your presumptions be kitten ed.
I don’t know why you’d think that meant someone already at level 8 or 9 who experienced the old system already would like this one better.
I don’t know why you’d think they’d automatically hate it if they’re still new.
That, “if,” remains to be determined.
No it doesn’t. We already have statements from new players.
I stated very specifically that it’s unknown which number is more, those driven away or those coming in.
But new players are being discouraged by these changes, and that’s not a good thing when it’s supposed to do the opposite, even if it’s only a small number. Because those discouraged will, much as the video maker did, pass that on to more people.
It was intended for players who are starting the game after the patch.
It is called the new player experience. It’s intended for new players, period.
As for the rest of your post: See @Ashen
Read the comments.
Watch the video.
Anet may have screwed up and they may not have screwed up. But it’ll take a lot more time than most of the fan base gave it to know that they screwed up.
And who constitutes enough time? Players gave it all the time they felt was necessary to make their judgment. You don’t get to decide what’s enough time.
A knee-jerk reaction by the playerbase does not a screw up make.
I’m not talking about the playerbase. I said new players. And if the changes meant for them are pushing them away, then yes. A screw up has occurred.
But feel free to plug your ears, close your eyes, and pretend this was the best thing ever. It’s par for the course with you, anyway.
Actually, if people had watched the video and paid attention, they’d see that the changes discouraged the newbie, because he feels like his freedoms in the game have been stifled and his choices have been taken from him.
Regardless of what Vayne thinks. The changes -ARE- actively discouraging new players. Is it more than they’re bringing in? Who knows.
But the fact they’re discouraging the type of player that they’re made for should say SOMETHING to him.
But then he’d have to admit that maybe Anet screwed up.
(edited by Gene Archer.8560)
Whiners annoy me.
For someone that despises whining and whiners, you sure do like to whine about them.
One must wonder why Gryph continues to chose to read the forums when he’s sick of all the negativity, just like how he wonders why people who are sick of the game continue to play.
So the question now is the current environment conducive to starting a CDI or should I wait a few days?
Chris
Waiting any more is just going to drive an even deeper and wider wedge into everything.
The time for waiting passed long, long ago. The time to act is now.
Anet is a company and companies don’t know anything.
Don’t start this semantic crap to weasel out of the question. You’re the one that called them Anet. Anet is the company and it includes the people in it.
You obviously understand what I mean, so seriously, stop this semantics crap and answer my question.
The major complaint of this thread, taken in context, is saying that Anet the developers, the people making the updates, don’t know what players want.
And to some degree, that is accurate. If they are human, and they are infallible, then they can’t possibly know what the players want. Data and Metrics are only worthwhile if they can be properly interpreted.
Clearly Anet does not interpret correctly all the time.
Aside from the obvious fact that this is a deeply divided player base, and the fact that Anet has some kind of metrics, it’s more logical that they would know what’s going on than we would.
Again, having metrics and interpreting metrics are two entirely different things.
So you take one single decision to hold up as an example, that’s likely not to have been made by developers at all,
Can you prove this? Are you really going to suggest that the devs have zero input on how the things they design are going to be implemented?
It proves you’ll go to great lengths to win arguments,.
Says the guy that uses words like believe in one breath but paints those beliefs as fact in the next breath. The guy that goes on and on about “metrics” and “data” and ignores that having said data is worthless if the people in charge can’t properly interpret that data.
But no, you don’t try to win arguments at any length. I mean, you don’t have to. Because Anet is completely infallible, and perfectly understands what the playerbase wants. I mean, they must. With all that data that told them to sell tag colors at 300g per.
,
what I was saying was pretty clear.
And what I was saying was pretty clear in reference to Anet as a company.
Yet you decided to try and be witty or snarky by saying “Companies can’t make decisions, it’s the people”
I’d love to know, OP, why you think you know what’s better for the game and the community than Anet.
I’d love to know, Vayne, why you think Anet knows what’s better for the game and the community when they were prepared to, and thought it was a good idea to charge 300g per colored commander tag.
Easy answer. Content is changes to the base game aren’t marketing decisions. Marketing is a whole different thing. NO one says that the marketing department is brilliant, but when it comes to making the core game better, that’s a completely different team.
Is Marketing a part of Anet or not? You didn’t say devs. You said Anet. Anet is the entire company, marketing department and all.
So I ask again, what makes you think Anet knows what is best when they were fully ready to make a decision like that?
I’d love to know, OP, why you think you know what’s better for the game and the community than Anet.
I’d love to know, Vayne, why you think Anet knows what’s better for the game and the community when they were prepared to, and thought it was a good idea to charge 300g per colored commander tag.
And on that note (-: I hope you have a great night/morning, I am going to watch a film.
Chris
Is the film Blues Brothers?
The film should totally be Blues Brothers.
rather that someone who is not paid to do so making the choice to not do so is not something they should be faulted for.
I do have to relent on that issue to some degree, because that is a fair point.
However, the devs have acted as the link, so that expectation has come forth. (which again just brings us to the point that someone needs to be in this position, devs or otherwise)
I do think that it would be in our best interest to make them feel like they might want to do so if its not going to be a part of their actual job.
That is going to be a tall order. I’m not going to say that the toxicity is right, but it is something that exists, and something that ANet has brought on themselves in some capacity, and will have to work through.
For now at least, they’re going to have to continue taking the first steps to restore trust. I’m not saying they alone have to improve, but the ball is fully in their court for the foreseeable future.
PS: I generally tip my driver 20%, more if the weather is bad.
10% is considered the base line tip, so you’re in the good tipper category, especially if you tip more in bad weather. -thumbs up-
I also firmly believe that everyone should work food service and retail at some point in their life.
I have come to this conclusion myself.
It’s weird, much as I hate the bad customer interactions, it’s actually strengthened my resolve on the importance of “customer first” and “the customer is always right” (they aren’t actually, but business is business).
No, customers shouldn’t be flying kittenholes. But in a strange way, a lot of times, the company is the one with the most power in the relationship. But that large power base comes with the necessity of successful and continued sales and happy customers. Companies have to tread lightly with how they treat customers, regardless of customer treatment towards them. And despite how much I hate those rude people I deliver to, I still think the way things are set up is necessary. Because otherwise, you get companies like EA.
But I also believe that if everyone were required to work in at least one service sector job, especially food service, things would be very different and we might start to see a true understanding of one another.
Or so I dream, at least.
Gene Archer’s post gave the impression, to me at least, that he thought the devs who do the actual production of the game are customer service personnel.
Because they are. Not in an official capacity, mind you, I do understand that. But when you work for the company, and you wear the uniform, you represent that company.
When the devs post here, with the red tag, they represent the company and are working for the company, regardless of clocked time.
Now, I understand that it’s not their official job. But that begs the question: whose job is it? And if there are people who that job belongs to, why aren’t they doing it?
Even the cooks at my place of work have to represent the company. Customer Service isn’t part of their job, but they still have to do it, because there are times they wind up being on the front line, even when they shouldn’t be.
So, if this communication thing isn’t going to be the Dev’s job, because they don’t do it officially, we need someone to fill in for them on an official front. And if we’re not doing that, and instead we’re going to rely on the devs, then I’m sorry, but the devs need to (wo)man up.
I asked several questions of Mr(?) Archer, related to his stated line of work (or at least the general industry) in order to couch the point in terms he had expressed a preference to use in order to point out that not everyone who works for a company is directly involved with customer service.
You’re right, not everyone is. But they still represent the company, regardless of PR qualifications. It’s a really difficult balancing act, but a company has no choice.
In fact some employees are assumed and expected to not be involved in direct customer interaction.
And that’s fair, but then why do the devs post at all on the forums? Why do they have forum accounts if they aren’t expected to communicate in at least some way?
And again, if not them, who is supposed to be communicating, then?
My goal was to point out the difference between a customer service rep, who is being paid to represent the company to its customers, and the production end of the company which is paid to produce a product. I also hoped that Mr Archer would recognize that not choosing to use their free time to work without pay, at a task that they do not enjoy in particular, for the company’s benefit is nothing like a decision to, “hide my head in the sand,” as mister Archer put it.
The devs are the only link we have. If they’re not being paid for this, then they need to start being paid for it. Otherwise get someone on board to do it for them, who will also be paid for it. But if the devs are going to be the only link we have and can rely on, then yes, avoiding us is just burying their heads in the sand, regardless of whether this is their job in any official capacity.
I was not attacking Mr Archer.
Didn’t see it as one, for the record. Took til now to get back to you because I passed out at some point from lack of sleep.
I have worked in the same field as Mr Archer and have nothing but respect for those who put up with all of the negatives inherent to that job.
It really sucks, doesn’kitten But it certainly is an eye opener, at the same time. It becomes really hard to balance the idea of being a customer and serving a customer.
It’s nuts, man.
(Also, tip your server and delivery driver, folks! /shameless plug)
I am not a member of any Anet fanclub. I am critical of the company when it seems appropriate to me and supportive when that seems appropriate. Generally more critical than otherwise of late.
I’ve seen Ashen’s posts. I can confirm this to be true.
(edited by Gene Archer.8560)
Option 2.
While there will be some more chaos with it, it will also allow ANet to see just what it is the playerbase, or at least the forum playerbase, is gunning for.
Sure.
But does that make the vitriolic and mean spirited posters get a pass on being like that?
That depends. Are you going to say the same for my job? Are you going to defend me when I face my angry customers?
I’m not saying it’s right. But it’s something that every business faces. Nobody gets to escape it. It comes with the job. And if ANet can’t handle that, then maybe they shouldn’t be in business.
and honestly a lot of the team who care deeply about Arena and the community are to scared to post because let’s be honest forums in general can be quite toxic.
I’m sorry, Chris, but this is neither a good nor acceptable reason to avoid the forums.
I work right now as pizza delivery. It really, really sucks. You can be delivering in a snowstorm, be two minutes late, and the customer won’t care. And they will berate you, withhold a tip, and complain to your manager.
And we take it. And we apologize, and we give them a free pizza and try to make the delivery a better experience next time. Because that person is a customer, and no matter how kittenty they are to us, we need their business.
And it’s horrible. It’s a really demeaning and stressful job for sucky pay, and I hate it, but I accept it. Because that’s what it means to provide a service. That’s what it means to rely on a customer. I don’t get to hide my head in the sand. I don’t get to avoid the angry customer, I have to face them head on. I have to take the initial brunt if they’re upset. And I don’t get to retaliate, because my job is on the line.
And that’s for a lowly pizza delivery job. You guys are so much higher up on the food chain.
Doesn’t it strike you as a little odd that the lowly pizza guy is being held to far higher customer interaction standards than the large corporation that has a critically acclaimed video game?
So i was thinking maybe we could have a CDI next week about the logistics (Methods, format, etc etc) of better communication on both sides?
thoughts?
Chris
To quote Picard: Make it so.
I mean, I’d rather the CDIs continue to be about the game. But, honestly. This is probably one of the best ways to go about building that communication foundation.
So if you guys are serious about this better communication plan, then I say yes. This is a good idea. Have a CDI that allows everyone interested to get on the same page about feedback, communication, and interaction. The quicker the foundation is set, the quicker everything can get back on track.
We knew that we needed to do more for communication. This has only been even more obvious this week. This has nothing to do with PR and everything to do with doing a better job with the connection with the community.
Not to continually jump on you, or anything, but, again; this isn’t the first time you’ve said such things.
So in order to do more than just jump up and down and proclaim “you already said that!” a million times, I’d like to ask a serious question of you, if I might, Chris;
You’ve now stated that you know that better communication is needed, and that it’s even more obvious as of this passing week. So my question is this:
What are you guys going to actually do about it? What is going to occur in order to foster this discourse?
Personally I am looking forward to building a better bridge.
Before one can build a bridge, they must build a solid foundation for said bridge.
As soon as anyone with a red post name says something the flood-gates open and the thread is usually either derailed,
The only one currently in danger of derailing the thread is yourself.
turns to posts about how it is not enough and that it is too late anyway or simply contains abuse and/or claims that the only thing the thread is, is PR and lies.
I know you’ll ultimately disagree, because you’re you, but the devs brought that upon themselves. And they’re going to have to deal with it in order to regain any trust.
Is it fair? Probably not.
But that’s the price one pays to work in a customer-based industry. ANet isn’t going to get cut any slack on that front.
Also note, and I’m speaking specifically to you in this instance, Krall; the mood in this thread has been somber, but ultimately not very insulting. Have people remained unimpressed? Yes. But that’s fair. Have some people been insulting? Yes, and they should be dealt with. However, very few posts have actively attacked the devs. Most of the posts have simply stated that they need to get it together. That is a perfectly fair statement to make. This thread has been very much calm, all things considered.
we just need to do a better job of communicating that and working to discuss topics.
With all due respect, you’ve said this before.
At some point, needing to do a better job has to actually turn into doing a better job.
I know I should be thankful that this red post exists at all. I know that I should appreciate it. But I’m sorry, Mark, I can’t thank you, and I can’t be appreciative.
It’s unfair of me, and I apologize for that, but it’s not going to change, for a long, long time, because of how poor the communication has been even -after- better communication was promised by Colin.
The best interaction I ever saw, the best communication I ever saw, occurred during SAB World 2. The creator of SAB took an active stance in the forums, spoke with everyone, and most importantly, continued to speak with everyone, even when people were tying his noose. And do you know what happened because of it?
The noose loosened, and people payed attention. But then, from what we’ve been lead to believe, he got in trouble for it. He got in trouble for actually being active and talking with us. He got in trouble for being good at customer service and public relations. Because apparently he set “too high” of a standard.
Regardless of what the truth of that actually is, there is one fact: He set a standard that should have been the norm to begin with. He did a good thing that day. A kitten good thing.
But overall, the communication has been horrible, and you guys have -a lot- of work to do. So don’t make this the last red post. If we look at this as a “restart” to the communication, then you have to keep it going, regardless of community toxicity. Otherwise what you’ve posted is just talk. And talk is cheap. ANet talk is even cheaper at this point, sad to say.
I mean, we have kitten like “Devs Wasting Time” here, kittening about how apparently they don’t know what they are doing.
Is it really that unfair to say that the devs are out of touch with the community or that they don’t know what they’re doing considering things like what’s now happened with SAB and what they originally intended for the commander tag system?
I mean, they were fully prepared to charge WvW players 1200 gold for a QoL improvement that would have allowed commanders to better coordinate in WvW (and PVE to a lesser extent).
They thought that this was a good design decision.
They continue to think that leaving SAB and the Continue Coin to rot, despite no future planned work on it, to be a good decision.
OP, I don’t know who you are and I don’t care what your reasons are. If you don’t like the game then just leave, if you have better things to do then just leave. If you want to tell Anet then send them an email or write them a letter. This sort of crap is nearly as bad as gold seller spam.
And threads about gold seller spam.
Actually these “Goodbye” threads carry weight and have meaning. Though I imagine you and ArenaNet would rather sweep them under the rug and hide the fact that players are leaving the game for good reasons.
Players speaking to ArenaNet:
“You have been weighed,
You have been measured,
and you have been found wanting.”
Sadly the players lack a Chaucer to back them up.
We were finally able to push this silly thread to the 2nd page, never to be seen again. And you decide to make an I Quit post in order to necro this thing?
I’m gonna have to bump it just to respond to your PM cause I’m not allowed to PM people anymore, apparently.
Tested what you told me, used ~500k karma. Using the 5 silver basis, numbers suggested that I should have made around 50g assuming I number crunched correctly.
Wound up with ~37g. The forge seems to like spitting karma gear back out at a decent frequency.
I will say that the method in question works, but I dunno how reliable I would say it is since they smashed karma gains in the head with a baseball bat full of rusty nails, and the mystic forge seems rather trollish.
Make of these mumblings what you will.
This isn’t an argument, it’s just contradiction.
Hooray for Monty Python? Prefer Mel Brooks, myself.
No.
Yes.
Breaking the game is the very definition of “not working as intended.”
The system did exactly what it was intended to do. It allowed players to sell items to one another with real money and Blizzard got a cut of the profit. It worked as intended.
It’s just that in working as intended, it destroyed the game. It still did what it was supposed to do, though. It still worked as it was intended to work. A side effect just came with that and snowballed with other problems into causing the game to straight up implode.
Good to know that. Among the suggestions I’ve seen was that players should be able to sell gems directly to each other instead of using an exchange rate. That would be an incredibly bad idea and will cause the economy to crash.
Doesn’t matter. It worked as intended.
I remember an article about how you could get the highest Zimbabwe bill for essentially peanuts. Always kinda wanted one as a piece of history.
I never played D3 and it’s been a while since I read about the crash there… but wasn’t there something about players selling stuff for real money?
Yes, and it was perfectly legal to do so because Blizzard set that up, and it worked as intended, because Blizzard got a cut of the profit from each successful sale. Blizzard set it up that way on purpose, and it did what it intended to do, which was bring them more money.
And then the game collapsed. Oops.
Breaking silence just to mention:
Vol just trashed his gold guide about an hour ago and had some interesting things to say.
Make of it what you will.
Back to silence a go go.
This entire patch has felt like nothing but a bunch of limitations being placed on us, and a bunch of options being stripped away.
And yet ANet has the nerve to act like we’ve been given even more options.
Somewhere, a disconnect is occurring between player feedback and what ANet actually sees and hears. It’s like there’s this middleman and a game of “Telephone” is being played.
What? You asked for numbers and when I gave them to you, you ignored me.
Wanze gave me numbers first. I used them. I formulated the data. I have both data and the “how”. I’ve done what was asked by JS.
-snip-
Which still says nothing of wealth disparity. Which I did the info on. Which I supplied a “how” to.
I did what JS wanted. The rest is on him. I’ll continue when he responds to my posts.
(Except in the case of Smooth, who I will continue to respond to as I have agreed to his experiment, but I will only be discussing the experiment with him)
This is my last response to the two of you.
I didn’t see it. Well, to be honest I saw you start to do it and drop it in the middle, then complain about how you can’t do it without numbers. I just gave you numbers, so finish already.
Already finished. It’s up above. Also explained all the how stuff in a far earlier post.
I’ve done my requirements. It’s time for JS to step up.
And besides that the average profit being made on the TP across the whole player base is -15%. Thats right, a loss of 15% from 5% listing fee and 10% sales tax.
You wouldn’t flip if all you made was a loss every time.
Anyway, like I said. I did what was requested of me. JS is the only one whose comment matters from this point forward in regards to my info gathering.
I’ll communicate with Smooth because I agreed to his experiment, but I’m done with the rest of you. You all can have fun with Ohoni and Essence and phys.
But we are not arguing that flipping gives out too much profit, YOU are.
How can you argue that flipping gives out too much profit, if you dont even know how much they make?
I can safely assume since one of the answers that always crops up in threads about “How does I gold?” is “Learn how to flip”.
People wouldn’t recommend flipping so kitten much if it didn’t pay out.
I just don’t have the general number of how much it pays out. And I only asked for it because it was a metric I needed. And it was asked of me what metric I needed.
For your calculations of making gold in pve, you take events that are on the low end of the earning curve
Because those are the things the average/casual player does with their time, generally speaking.
and compare them to the high end of an earning curve of another activity.
Champ trains just got nerfed hardcore. Dungeons just got nerfed to one chest a day. World Bosses are even nerfed because they’re scheduled, now, which means how long a person has to play is how many bosses they can actually take on to get their 1 guaranteed rare. The Orr temples are now harder to get into because of contested waypoints on megaservers.
And on top of that, everything had its difficulty raised, thus increasing the risk. Or if nothing else, hit pools were raised, which still induces the chance of failure due to lack of damage.
The trading post is the only thing to not take a hit.
I know people that tried flipping, burned their fingers and lost gold.
Does that mean that you should pay to do events now?
You do pay to do events now. It’s called the waypoint system. One generally misses an event unless they are there ahead of time, and even then, depending on the location of the event, running is in no way feasible.
Waypoints and map completion for said waypoints are the entry cost for events.
What you need to do is demonstrate how to determine whether there is a problem and JS can plug in the numbers and see if there is some merit to your claims.
I already did this. It was ignored outright. And I don’t mean JS said “I put in the numbers, there’s no problem”
I mean he never even responded.
I have done what was requested of me, in several forms and several different times now. I’ve been summarily ignored each time while continuing to have proof demanded of me.
I’ve done the why, the how, and even suggested solutions. I’ve done it all.
I am fairly sick and tired of being given the run around despite being one of the ones actually trying to take this seriously. I have hit my limit, because it’s just the same things happening as last time. I’ll take part in Smooth’s little experiment since the good outweighs the bad in it even if he’s proven right, but I’m done with everything else if I’m only going to be ignored while still having “proof” demanded of me.
Reducing trading post profits will not eliminate wealth disparity.
It will bring it more in line, however.
Extremely rich players dont influence market prices significantly because they still act as 1 consumer.
They still influence them -because- they are rich, however.
There is no other answer.
There is an answer in gold total. Take a specific amount of gold to use for flipping. Use it to flip. Make sure you have no other gold or items waiting for you at the TP before you do this. After flipping, on average, how much gold have you made for being successful?
Is it 10 gold? Is it 20? Is it 100?
I can tell you approximately how much gold can be made with a given game activity, and have done so.
If you are unable to do the same for flipping, you have no right to demand proof when you are incapable of even answering something as simple as: “How much gold do you make in a general time period from flipping”
You should at least be able to make a safe assumption.
The average return of flipping 2 hours is 5g, please continue with your arguement.
If you think the 5g is a figure too low, please prove otherwise.
Everything else, as I mentioned, pays out 2g per 2 hours, generally speaking.
Flipping pays out 5g.
There is a wealth disparity.
Those people that only ever get 2g cannot keep up with those who can get 5g. Higher end items will be priced at the rate of what those making 5g can make. This leaves the rest out of the loop, unable to ever catch up, if flipping is not an option for them, as prices increase with inflation/demand but the rate at which they make gold does not.
Beyond that, these activities just took a nerf. So now it’s more like ~1g, while flippers still make 5g. The disparity will now increase.
There is now a clear and distinct advantage to flipping over doing anything else in the game.
Balance is something game devs strive for. There is now an imbalance in the game. Therefore TP profits need to be brought in line with other activities in order to reach balance again, -or- those activities need to be brought back in line with flipping.
If inflation arises because of bringing activities up, then instead increase the rate at which items drop. If that would cause a problem, then instead implement a progressive tax, if that causes too many problems, then instead implement rewards across more currencies. If for some inane reason that isn’t an option, then set a max limit to how much gold the wallet can keep and have all other gold spill over into an escrow service.
0% to 25% usually.
% tells me nothing, and you kittening know this. If all you want to do is play coy, then stop responding to me and in fact, stop responding to this thread in general.
You want actual discussion? Tell me how much kittening gold that is.
If all you wanna do is troll? Then stop demanding proof, because you are being just as useless as you think Snow is.
(edited by Gene Archer.8560)
@ AidanYou provided numbers that involved Orr runs, etc and then selling the items on the TP.
I asked for numbers on flipping.
You did not provide the information I asked for.
I’ll probably have to reply with the results late tonite, or tomorrow.
Take your time. If it helps, I generally have about 2 – 3 hours to actually play the game, depending on when I have to go into work.
To prove to you that this is a fact, I’ll conduct a small experiment on you. Tell me how much Gold you have free,
265
and how much total Karma you have available.
1,513,309
Then tell me which item you want to buy the most (only 1).
Dawn
Which unless the numbers have changed, means that 500,000 or so karma is free and loose, as it takes about 1 million karma to obtain the necessary clovers and friends.
If your method is that guaranteed though, feel free to use all the karma and we’ll just go straight to Sunrise as said item. Either way works for me.
And I’ll tell you how to get it with guaranteed results. Consider this a gift from your friendly neighborhood Penguin.
Here’s your numbers. Have fun.
That’s why you have the option to get it by buying it in the TP.
Which is only an option if you can keep up with inflation and the lack of supply that continually raises the price. Most in game activities that aren’t hardcore farming, OR flipping the TP, don’t allow you to actually keep up.
You aren’t actually grasping the reason why the TP as it functions is helpful for the player you are describing.
Again, it’s only helpful if you can actually afford the items. That’s been one of my main points.
The irony is that while complaining about the randomness of the drop, you aren’t willing to acknowledge the sure thing of buying from the TP.
Because one of the things I’ve brought up is that the TP is the -only- sure way. Which requires gold. Which not everyone can make at a pace that allows them to keep up and ever reach the item in question.
Essence Snow is a troll, nothing more.
No more than any of you, who have continually failed to provide me a single number, so that I could continue my data finding, in order to bring you your proof that you oh so desire.
(edited by Gene Archer.8560)
So then tell me how much you make in two hours when you flip.
I can give you all the data you want after that, but I need that number. Unsure of the number? Give me what you feel is a safe assumption/estimate of that number. If you flip, you’ll have a better idea of that number than I will.
So tell me, already.
It’s been what? Six, seven pages since JS asked for workable theories about issues on the TP? There’s been none.
/thread
So tell me how much you can generally make in two hours by just flipping and I’ll give you a general idea of whether there’s a wealth disparity or not.
Wanna know why a wealth disparity is bad? I’ve already explained it. Go back and look, I’m done repeating myself for a bunch of people that go on about discussion but aren’t actually interested in discussion.
I’m done bringing up issues only to have them be ignored or stated as not being issues. The trading post could destroy an item upon purchase at 25% chance rather than giving you the item, and as long as that was intended, you’d say “working as intended” and say it was a good thing since it was doing what it set out to do.
You don’t have to like it, and I don’t have to care whether you like it or not. I don’t.
And I don’t care what you think, either. So hey, there’s something we agree on.
(edited by Gene Archer.8560)
Finally got around to the “I hate RNG” rant… this thread is officially dead.
If you say so chief.
My experiences in this game are exactly like my experiences in every other MMO I’ve ever played: I get lots of vendor trash, some stuff I can’t use except to sell/salvage and occasionally something that makes me go “oh, cool!”
I can honestly say that I have had better experiences in terms of loot in WoW and TOR than in this game. Hell, I’ve had better loot experiences in Maplestory. MAPLE STORY rewards loot better than this game. Think about that for a sec.
This is no different from any other game that I’ve ever played. Apparently I need to start playing WoW, where every trash mob drops ultra-rare loot that raises your stats another 10 points.
The difference in WoW is that you can do specific things and as such, have a better drop chance. They’ve also implemented systems where if you don’t get a drop you’re after, you can literally increase your chances til you do get that item to drop.
I don’t think you understand the fact that “random” does not mean “guaranteed”.
THIS IS MY ENTIRE POINT. THIS IS MY ENTIRE kittenING POINT. QUIT kittenING IGNORING THAT THIS IS MY POINT.
Yes, thus my original statement that the TP is the only non-random way to obtain a precursor. Thus my original statement that a precursor may never drop for a person, BECAUSE IT’S RANDOM.
I’ve said this entire time, that by the nature of being random, a person may never see a precursor, because the drop is random and the drop rate is incredibly low.
And not to rub salt in the wound, but I got a Precursor as a drop from an Ogre event while running with my guild this past weekend. RNG works.
Good for you? I’ve done a ton of events and still haven’t seen one. That’s also RNG working, and it will be RNG working if I -never- see one, ever.
THAT’S MY ENTIRE POINT.
Precursors are populated in the TP through NON_TP methods so there are obviously ways to get them not in the TP.
And those only ways are completely random. Which again means that someone may never see the drop, ever.
Unless you know of a guaranteed method that isn’t the TP?
(edited by Gene Archer.8560)
Side note – you’re always guaranteed to get something random with RNG. So that countered that whole other point you brought up too.
My entire point is that it’s random. What don’t you understand about that?
Those items do eventually drop because the chance to get a ‘true’ is non-zero. Doing a event 5 million times and never getting the item your after simply depends on the chance. Very simply.
But again, it’s only a chance. Which means that there is the chance that you will never see the item. And in the case of precursors? The chance is so small on an individual level that never seeing one is a very real possibility.
It not relevant anyways because if you educate yourself instead of blindly going down the RNG path, you can made an EDUCATED decision to not do it.
So the solution to getting a precursor through non-TP methods is to…not get a precursor at all? GENIUS!