Guild Wars 2

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Fractals isn’t mandatory.
You can get a completely maxed out character, participate effectively in pve, pvp and wvw without ever touching fractals.

Fractals are a part of PVE, and therefore to be a completely maxed out character would require Ascended Gear in order to obtain agony resistance.

Aside from that, there’s, you know, that quote about even casual players having BiS gear by level 80, which ascended completely destroys.

Vayne.8563:

Sue me. It’s almost 6 am in Australia. I’ve been up all night.

Then maybe you shouldn’t be posting since you can’t get your kitten right.

I’ve seen you make this claim before when you get caught on stuff you’ve said. It’s not an excuse. If you’re so tired you can’t get your stuff right, then stop pulling all nighters while also posting. To quote Samuel L. Jackson: Go the kitten to sleep.

Vayne.8563:

If I get a word wrong in a post against people who clearly are only trying to argue, that’s fine. I don’t really care.

Only arguing because you started it. All you had to do when I told you FF11 was an MMO was type: “Oh, I didn’t realize FF11 was an MMO.”

I made it clear, I was just trying to inform you that FF11 was an MMO, because your post comparing its expansions to Skyrim’s DLC made it perfectly clear you thought it was another single player Final Fantasy game, which is fair because Square has made so few MMOs. That’s why I started off saying I wasn’t going to snark you. You could have just taken the information and left it at that.

Vayne.8563:

The substance of what I said, if you look at my original quote doesn’t change the fact that I was trying to keep the hype low by what I posted.

And now you’re in a thread about gloating about being right, saying “It was so obvious that an expansion was coming”, that the “signs were always there”.

Vayne.8563:

I’ve always knew and always said there were people working on big projects in the background on the type of stuff you’d find in an expansion. I’ve said it probably dozens of times.

You didn’t know, you assumed. Just as the other side assumed nothing was coming. The only difference is how data was interpreted. You took ANet at their word that big things were coming, interpreting from what they said, etc. Others interpreted based on how content was being released and things like the trait thread, etc.

Vayne.8563:

If FF 11 was in fact an MMO, then it came out with a non-traditional MMO expansion too.

>If it was

It was. There is no if. Final Fantasy 11 was an MMO. And it being “non-traditional” was Phys’ point.

Vayne.8563:

My argument was quite simple. Generally speaking, MMOs come out with new tiers of gear and new level caps. There may be exceptions, which makes them NOT STANDARD. This is the most basic use of the English language there is.

If there are 100 MMO updates and 95 of the come out with higher level cap and/or updated gear, then that’s the standard MMO expansion.

It’s not rocket science.

Speaking of basic rules of English and rocket science, I’d like to point you back to Ashen’s post showing how you never said anything about “traditional”.

Vayne.8563:

I was talking about MMORPGs.

I’ll be nice just this once, hold back my snark, and say that just so you know, Vayne, Final Fantasy 11 is in fact an MMO. FF14 wasn’t Square’s first venture into the MMO market.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I can say that from all I hear it shouldn’t betoo long before there is some info we can share.

Gaile, a good while back now, when the whole “Communicating with You” thread came into being, Colin promised more and better communication.

It’s been 8 months that this thread has existed, and still nothing of any true value has been said one way or the other on what’s happening to traits. No real information has been given to the playerbase. But supposedly, we might, just maybe, soonish, maybe, maybe, in the unknown but totally close but not guaranteed future, get -some- info.

I’m sorry, Gaile, but why does your job exist, exactly? I don’t wanna bash on you, I think you’re cool, but I just don’t see it. I don’t see what point there is in having a Communications Lead when no communication is actually occurring.

If it takes another month before -some- info comes out, that means people will have waited 9 months on the Traits thread to hear -anything- at all of substance. And if it takes more than a month, it may become a whole year before anything was ever said.

9+ months of no actual information or more and better communication.

Choose one.

Haishao.6851:

Gene Archer.8560:

MMOs are 40 years old, btw.

What kind of MMO did people play in the 70’s ?

They were called MUDs. Same concept, only Text and ASCII.

Vayne.8563:

The Internet isn’t old.

The internet is at least 50 years old. It is kitten well old at this point.

MMOs are 40 years old, btw.

Computers are also a 50 year business at this point. It’s not “new” anymore when you’ve hit half a century of existence.

Brimstar.9036:

It leaves something stale and bland in my mouth that over-saturates the already over-rewarding reward system.

Over-rewarding reward system? What?

GW2 is one of the most heavily RNG saturated, unrewarding mmos to ever exist.

Lyssan.3768:

-snip for brevity sake-

This. Is. A. Video. Game.

There is no “effort”. There is no “work” being done. You haven’t accomplished anything amazing with any of these achievements. Not a single one. You haven’t accomplished anything worthy of saying you did any kind of “work”, whether you’re a pvp champion or the first person to solo the triple worm raid.

All you’ve done is press some buttons in a particular order, on a keyboard, on a program designed purely for entertainment purposes.

“work” and “effort” exist only in the real world, and that’s where they need to stay. Video games are about fun and entertainment. It’s time you accepted that and stopped pretending like you’ve done anything meaningful to make you so angry over “participation awards”.

Vayne.8563:

It’s funny, you know. There’s absolutely no substance to people who say Anet isn’t working on anything, and that they’re not talking because they have nothing to talk about, but I don’t see you getting into those comments and saying they don’t have substance.

There’s no need! They have you for that! I’m just providing the other side of things! I’m providing much needed balance to these forums, much the same as you!

Vayne.8563:

That smacks of bias.

You of all people have no right to talk about bias.

Vayne.8563:

If you’re going to complain about lack of substance, be fair and complain about lack of substance on both sides.

Maybe when you start being fair and actually stop defending ANet 90% of the time.

Vayne, seriously. Tell me how the revelation that ANet is “working” on “stuff” actually helps anything?

Okay, so now we know, beyond the shadow of a doubt (but not really), that ANet is actually working on stuff. We now know that people who say “ANet isn’t actually working on anything” are wrong (maybe). Because someone was given a tour of the ANet buildings and they saw “stuff” going on.

And yet, the perception that ANet is sitting around twiddling their thumbs is going to persist, well past the existence of this thread, because of things like the information blackout the community is still being put through.

You claim that all I want to do is argue, but what about yourself? The only reason I can see for you posting such a thread is so you can jump up and down going “See, see! I was right you guys! ANet is doing things! This other guy says so as well!”

Well, congrats, then, Vayne! You are right and they are wrong! ANet is soooo working on stuff! Huzzah for stuff!

You yourself admitted that the article doesn’t really mean anything, so I wonder why you’re trying so kitten hard to defend it as anything meaningful.

Galen Grey.4709:

Provides an observation by a 3rd party?

Such an observation!
Much stuff!
Many wows!

There is no substance to it.

Galen Grey.4709:

A ton has been said on the subject based on absolutely nothing but gut feels.

And this article does nothing to help sway those gut feels because it has no substance.

Saying that ANet is “working” on “stuff” isn’t saying anything of value.

Galen Grey.4709:

Like I said its an observation. Doesnt say anything per-se but at least its something to base arguments on.

But as an observation, it doesn’t actually -do- anything. And it says absolutely nothing. It doesn’t -help- the situation or the general toxicity that has enveloped the forums.

Galen Grey.4709:

But now that we have a 3rd party confirming he saw 100s of employees busy working though reinforces that argument.

“Goody goody gumdrops! ANet is “working” on “stuff”. We can’t say what that “stuff” is, but it’s totally “stuff” and you guys should be super excited for this “stuff”! "

Well, what a motherkittening relief. ANet is “working” on “stuff” because some guy was given a tour of ANet headquarters and saw them working on said “stuff”.

You know who else saw some “stuff” once? A couple guys who were given a tour of the Valve buildings.

Both ANet and Valve are “working” on “stuff”!

Half Guild Life Wars 3 confirmed, you guys!

Serophous.9085:

Anet: “Guys, we are working on stuff”
Haters: “We don’t believe you”
Outside source: “I went to Anet, I can confirm they are working on stuff”
Haters: “We don’t believe you”
Hypothetical more sources go: “We too can confirm they are working on stuff”
Haters: “Well, none of us went, so you ALL must be in a conspiracy to keep up the charade that Anet is doing stuff!”

I’ve given up on trying to argue with those people. There is no point. They hate the game, they bash the game, its all they do. Anet could come out with an expansion that could be held as the greatest thing ever in the MMO community, and they will still trash it. There is no winning.

ANet: Hey guys, we’re working on stuff!
White Knights: See guys! They’re working on stuff!
“Haters”: But what is this “stuff”? What is it you’re actually doing?
ANet: We can’t say, but it’s totally cool stuff! STUFF! SO MUCH STUFF!
“Haters”: That’s not actually telling us anything, thou-
White Knights: OMG YOU GUYS STOP HATING ON ANET. HOW COULD YOU!
“Haters”: We don’t hate the game, we actually love it and have become disillusioned by a lack of meaningful communication and not knowing what ANet actually has plann-
ANet: STUUUUUFFFFF!!!!!! SO MUCH STUUUUUUUFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!! AND IT’S SO AWESOME THAT WE CAN’T ACTUALLY SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT. IT’S JUST THAT COOL!
White Knights: SEE! SEE! IT’S STUFF YOU GUYS! STUFF! STUFF HAS NEVER GONE WRONG!

Vayne.8563:

And yes, the guy hasn’t said anything that Anet hasn’t said,

Then what worth is the article?

Vayne.8563:

but having someone not in Anet say it, to me anyway, is at least a bit better than just Anet saying it.

How? Honestly, how? Nothing of substance has actually been stated in the article, or by ANet.

Vayne.8563:

Now of course, this really means nothing.

You’re right. It really does mean nothing.

/thread

dlonie.6547:

And let’s give Gaile a chance to shake something up in Bellevue and see what falls out.

Nah, it’s pretty clear that this is the best we’ll ever get. They promised better communication but they have no intention if actually following through.

dlonie.6547:

It’s been 15 minutes, for christsake.

Actually it’s been 3 months. We were promised better communication back in the “Communicating with you” thread. It’s the reason the CDIs were started back up…until they got stopped again for whatever reason, or something?

Sorry, but no more chances. No more time. ANet was given their chance and they have blown it. There is absolutely zero reason at this point to have any faith whatsoever that things will improve. There aren’t going to be roadmaps. There isn’t going to be communication. We’ll never truly know if traits are going to be fixed, if more dungeons are being made, or if SAB is actually going to return before any of us are old and grey.

Gaile, you guys over at Anet promised more and better communication.

You’ve nailed the more, but so long as you keep quoting, and sticking to O’Brien’s gag policy on telling us what is going on with the game, you will never achieve better communication.

You can quote his post til you’re blue in the face, but I’m sorry. Mike is wrong on this decision. He will always be wrong in this decision. This very thread should be proof that your policy of silence doesn’t work.

Either you all are going to communicate better, or you aren’t. Which is it going to be? Cause I can tell you that if one of your fears is stringing everyone along? Well, you’re doing that at this very moment by keeping everyone in the dark.

Zoso.8279:

:‘( but i’d make a great boyfriend we can do all your favorite things argue ALL DAY AND ALL NIGHT I’m sure you’d love that right?…….. Hey I have the perfect first date planned out for us! I’ll take you down to the beach and we can argue under the moonlight! <3 sound romantic right!

Maybe I should take you up on your offer. Not because of the arguing portion. But because you are apparently a kittening wizard. I mean, you’re promising me the beach. The closest beach for me can be registered in hundreds of miles. And here you are saying “Yeah, I can teleport us to the beach no sweat.”

Conjure up a million dollars for me and we’ll talk.

Zoso.8279:

Your right this is on me. I guess another saturday night full of regret LMFAO!

Hey man, you’re the one that apparently wanted to argue since you responded first. I was just pointing it out. But I understand that you have to laugh at yourself to save face.

Zoso.8279:

1. GTFO lmao the price of some things changed so now its better…… .

Well, yes. Halloween is about fun and treats. Being able to actually obtain the treats, and reasonably at that, has improved this year’s halloween over last year’s.

I mean, now I’m confused. I actually say that this halloween is better than last year’s, and you’re…getting on my case for it?

Zoso.8279:

the content that you play makes no difference? LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

Aside from the JP, I was fine with last year’s content, more or less. But the stinginess of the treats took away from the content enjoyment.

I like my treats. So sue me.

I’d be willing to call this halloween perfect if they’d reintroduce the 2012 stuff as well. I’d still think the rest of the game needs a huge amount of work, sure, but a perfect halloween is still worth striving for.

Zoso.8279:

Gene you like to argue thats fine but I’m not your boyfriend

Thank the lord almighty. I’d never want someone like you for my boyfriend.

Zoso.8279:

so maybe you should find someone else to argue with

Uh, if you didn’t want to argue, you shouldn’t have responded to my post to begin with. You brought this on yourself, chief.

Zoso.8279:

talking to someone like you people just end up going in circles.

Funny, that’s exactly how I feel about people like you and Vayne.

Zoso.8279:

LMAO so this halloween event is better then last year? Funny most people said its the same as last year.

Because it’s last year’s events. But there are some subtle changes. Funny how I’ve noticed them despite being away, yet you, who loves this game so much that you’re always playing, can’t notice.

The candy corn cob prices have been reduced on several items, and there are far more available nodes and halloween items dropping.

Last year was sparse in the rewards because they were so kittening worried about their precious economy that they forgot how to make holidays fun, and instead made them a grind.

Zoso.8279:

Beauty of GW no sub fee. You have critique go for it let the world know!

And yet when people do that, you and Vayne white knight around like you’ve got chips on your shoulders, because people dared to have problems with your precious ANet.

Zoso.8279:

If your going to troll well expect for people to correct you.

You’ve failed to correct me on anything. In fact, I just corrected you.

You claim to be so happy with this game, and now I see why. You don’t actually pay attention to the changes around you.

Zoso.8279:

So much misinformation and dumb trolls talking talking talking and then oooppppssssss you never could die in starting zone since before the NPE O.O fools. (NPE reference there)

I’ve never said that about the NPE, though. So why are you saying this to me?

Zoso.8279:

Yet here you are Gene….. You have said you are leaving so many times

I haven’t, actually. I’ve said all my other friends have left. Because they have. I’m the only one left. I’m the only one that bothered giving a kitten about this game and holding out hope. And I had a long spate of not logging in. I’m here for Halloween, because they at least managed to fix it from how horrible it was last year.

Zoso.8279:

and you constantly complain about the game are you a masochist?

Probably. I also have the (rather foolish, it seems) hope that, you know, maybe ANet will actually go through with its word of more and better communication, and listening, and such.

So far, they’re not doing well. What with that traits thread.

Don’t worry, I’ll be back to just lurking soon enough, waiting for the game to truly improve. Then you can enjoy your little delusional bubble world with Vayne where everything is sunshine and roses.

Zoso.8279:

This game was talked about as being original by almost all reviews.

Key word -was-. Because the game -was- unique. But they’ve done just about everything they could to take that away.

I see nothing unfair about this thread.

You should get your glasses checked, Vayne.

On topic: I’d tell my friend not to bother unless they can get the game for free. Nor should they expect to see any of our other friends on, because they all left for greener pastures are won’t be coming back.

Paradox.1380:

@Gene: I found this thread to be quite eye-opening and helpful.

Okay. But how does the data presented actually help you? How does it help the person who’s lost their original guild? How does it help the person that is just plain unlucky and can’t seem to find a megaserver that’s rockin’ the massive peeps? (I recall a thread or two about continuously empty Mad Labyrinths, for instance, and have even experienced a few myself this halloween).

Paradox.1380:

You are entitled to yours, but using an opinion against data is just silly.

Opinions shape the world regardless of data. One need only look at history, and…forgive how weird this will sound, the history -of- history to see that.

As I said before: It’s all well and good that game is doing fine, that it apparently isn’t empty according to statistics.

But those statistics are only worthwhile if that non-emptiness can actually reach a player and make them feel, for lack of a better term, good about the future of the game. And I don’t mean reach them with data and spreadsheets and numbers.

(Also I’m not your pal, friend.)

Vayne.8563:

I won’t be answering your posts anymore, feel free to have the last word.

Works for me. My last word will be that your data is as suspect as the doomsayers, and that you jamming your fingers in your ears and denying that isn’t going to change anything.

Vayne.8563:

I’m providing information to people who haven’t

And as I noted, the provided information is still suspect.

The only decent piece of information you have is the layoff thing, and honestly, that doesn’t even necessarily point to anything depending on where in NCSOFT the layoffs occurred, even if ANet escaped unscathed, because it depends on -why- the layoffs occurred.

Layoffs, horrible as they are, don’t always point to a company doing worse. Backwards as that may seem.

Vayne.8563:

You saying something is worthless is completely your opinion. It’s not constructive or helpful.

This whole thread is neither constructive nor helpful, as I already explained.

That aside, you asked me to talk about the topic. So I did. I’m sorry that you don’t like what I have to say about your presented data.

Vayne.8563:

And I don’t attack you. I respond to your attacks. I’m sure others can see the difference.

I simply call it as I see it. I find it hilarious that you would try and call me disingenuous considering your own posting history. I called you a contrarian because you basically admitted to it.

If you feel they are bad enough to call attacks, then by all means, report my posts.

Vayne.8563:

Enough with the personal attacks.

After you.

Vayne.8563:

If you have something to add to the conversation by all means add it.

The numbers are meaningless. Your data is just as suspect as the “dead game” crowd.

I don’t care if it’s three data points. None of them are official data points. None of them are official ANet sources.

But let’s say that you’re officially right and the game is doing fine and your sources are some kind of supremely solid proof.

Congrats! You’ve changed…-absolutely nothing- about these forums or the game as a whole! You’ve affected nothing at all by presenting these numbers.

People that feel like the game is dying will still feel as such, and will most likely still say as such. And any new players that come to these forums likely won’t care about the numbers, since if they’re coming to the forums, they probably have some kind of problem with the game to begin with.

Said problem might even be that they feel like the game is dead. Or lack of mounts, or whatever.

Your data is, frankly, useless for two reasons. The first is that it’s an unofficial source that only includes people that actively use a specific type of program.

The second reason is that you’re presenting this data in order to combat remarks that are, on a whole, most likely subjective. And due to their subjective nature, you presenting this data isn’t likely to change any minds because you can scream about how the game is fine til you’re blue in the face (and boy have you)…

But those numbers are going to be 100% meaningless to the person who has lost their entire guild three or more times from members leaving (or whatever example you please).

Posting these numbers on the forums doesn’t help the game one bit. It doesn’t make the game -feel- more alive. It doesn’t answer burning questions about SAB/mounts/traits/moogles/tiddlywinks. It doesn’t help the communication problems ANet has been having. And it fails to provide any kind of useful or meaningful feedback to ANet about their product and what they could or could not do to make it even more of a fun experience for newbies and vets alike. It certainly doesn’t bring the GW2 community closer together.

Vayne.8563:

If you can’t do anything but talk about me, you should probably not be posting.

You should never be posting. Things were better without you, quite frankly.

Vayne.8563:

Totally disingenuous.

Hilarious coming from you.

Vayne.8563:

-post-

And normally? I would agree with you.

But you’re the one that constantly likes to tout your experiences in the apparently millions of various fields you’ve participated in, in order for your words to hold more weight.

So if you wanna be taken seriously? Expect to be held to a higher standard.

Vayne.8563:

I was reading fast, between PvP tournaments. Kitten happens.

Hey that’s your problem. Not mine.

You’re the publisher/store owner/grammar magician/english professor/jack of all trades that managed to fail to take the time to properly read.

Sarrs.4831:

Vayne.8563:

Sarrs.4831:

Vayne.8563:

How about you stop wasting time in this junk thread and contribute to other topics. At this point, I’m only replying to people. You’re part of the problem, not the solution.

“Be the change that you wish to see in the world.”

— Mahatma Gandhi

I change the game from the inside. My chances of changing the forums are relatively minimal. I spend time in game helping new players, answering questions, being a good samaritan. Explaining strats at big events to people who don’t know.

wow you cannot draw in this forum

Picture made sense to me.

The point flew right over his head. Much like it always does.

Vayne.8563:

I said, and this is where the reading bit comes in: “if EVERYONE on these forums was saying the game was great.”

Ah, so it just requires everyone. Well, since everyone on this forum doesn’t say the game sucks, your so called “balance” isn’t required.

You can stop being a contrarian, now.

Vayne.8563:

I always look for what’s missing or needed and do that bit. That’s what I’ve done all my life.

So you’re a contrarian.

Vayne.8563:

Right now, there’s balance missing from these forums.

It’s hilarious that you believe this.

Vayne.8563:

Too many willing to complain about the littlest stuff, with very little credit given when credit is due.

Credit is never “due” because credit being “due” is completely subjective, as the credit itself is subjective.

Vayne.8563:

That’s not really a contrarian, no matter what you say.

adjective
adjective: contrarian

1.
opposing or rejecting popular opinion; going against current practice.

You are very much a contrarian on these forums. And worse yet, you’re not doing it because you believe in any of it. You’re doing it because a “balance is needed”.

Vayne.8563:

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

But if everyone on these forums was saying the game was amazing, I’d be pointing out the flaws. It’s called balance.

The forum needs more of it.

Oh, so you’re a contrarian.

Good to know.

Only if what’s being said is grossly overstated or demonstrably false.

You just said that you’d be pointing out flaws if the forums were positive.

You’re a contrarian.

That’s all there is to it.

Vayne.8563:

But if everyone on these forums was saying the game was amazing, I’d be pointing out the flaws. It’s called balance.

The forum needs more of it.

Oh, so you’re a contrarian.

Good to know.

Gaile Gray.6029:

What if someone says something is coming “in the next couple of days” or “within the next week” or “by the end of the month” and then testing reveals an issue that delays the implementation?

Then you come on the forums and say:

“Hey guys, testing revealed problems with implementations. The problems that we can tell you about are this, this, and this. We have to now alter our time table because of these problems. Our new deadline is shooting for several days/weeks/whatever from today. We will be sure to keep you guys updated should anything change again.”

Seriously, Gaile, you are like, the most awesome person ever at ANet. But this whole communication thing isn’t rocket science.

Less problems arise with deadlines so long as you actually keep people informed when those deadlines aren’t met, and you keep them informed in a -timely- manner.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Would you rather hear something rather specific, like “in the next couple of days,” even while you know that it could change for reasons outside our control? Or would you rather hear “soon” and not have as solid an expectation

Here’s the thing about “soon”. Because of all the companies that have used “soon” and yet never delivered, “soon” has lost -all- meaning. “Soon” now, in MMO terms, means “probably never going to happen”.

You guys at ANet can’t keep ignoring that “soon” doesn’t mean what you think it means anymore when it comes to the MMO market.

Retro.6831:

Some thoughts to consider as we dig into this CDI that I thought were worth sharing;

All of this post. Every ounce of it.

Thia.4891:

My only hope for raiding is that it doesn’t come with a gear treadmill. Ascended gear should remain the highest tier. New skins should be the rewards, not new stats.

This as well.

Conski Deshan.2057:

This is not about excluding people,

I disagree, it is absolutely about excluding people.

This is the very reason I disagree with raids existing in this game at all. Players claim they want challenging content, but they don’t. They want -exclusive- content with -exclusive- rewards.

Not actually fixed, just got some achievements and still at 6/12, which is where I was yesterday.

GG, Anet.

Vayne.8563:

Either the game is fun, and you play it, or it isn’t and you stop.

If only the world was truly as black and white as you seem to view it. Though I find it funny that in one post you mention how your logging in to the game has dropped some recently, and yet here you are saying either play or don’t.

Given that attitude, since your log ins have already started dropping, you may as well just stop, since clearly you don’t find the game as fun as you once did.

Vayne.8563:

I’m not going to draw an artibrary line in the sand after which it’s time to leave. That just makes no sense…

It doesn’t make sense to try and hold on to something you once enjoyed? To give things a chance to change?

The reactions you describe as not making sense? Those would be emotions, and the human condition. Your inability to understand them would suggest you aren’t actually human, Vayne.

So what planet did you come from, and does our yellow Sun give you super powers?

Vayne.8563:

GuzziHero.2467:

I don’t really, anymore.

The way Ascended gear was implemented planned the funeral. April megafailpatch dug the hole. Anet not giving a half a kitten about our concerns made the coffin. The ridiculous, mindless changes to the storyline hammered the lid shut.

I stick around in the vain hope that there are some signs of life before they start shovelling in the soil.

Pretty strong on the hyperbole.

It’s not hyperbole if that’s how Guzzi truly feels about the game.

Um, I’m uh pretty sure Nokaru’s point is that stating that any type of post is “the worst kind of hyperbole” is in itself hyperbole.

phys.7689:

well you appear to like the game easy and have a large hatred for certain types, fair enough. I generally dont like elitism, but i dont think any game can be replayable for long without depth. But thats my opinion

Depth and Challenge are two entirely different concepts.

Furthermore, true challenge isn’t actually quantifiable. You say this game is super easy, but that’s not true.

What is true is that it’s super easy -to you-.

But those are two entirely different things.

phys.7689:

you shouldnt react to someones attitude as much as what they are saying. Are you just annoyed at their tone, or do you think the game is better off with less challenging content/low reward content

I think the game is better off being easy, yes. I think it’s better off being welcoming to the lowest common denominator because catering to the “hardcores” and the “uber elite” only ever leads to a horrible, toxic, elitist community of haves and have nots.

I’ve seen too many MMOs take that route, and I am downright sick of it. Enough of that bullcrap goes on in the real world. I don’t need it infecting my video games.

I get and respect that some gamers like challenge for the sake of challenge, but they are in the wrong game quite frankly. And beyond that, too many of them wind up being the other kind of challenge seekers. The ones that don’t want actual challenge. They say they do, but what they really want is challenge that’s just hard enough that they can beat it, but no one else can. They want to stroke their egos, nothing more. They want to feel part of some elite and will gladly trample over everyone else’s fun to get there.

And yes, I will gladly deny them their fun because of that.

And it’s so easy to tell who those kind of people are. They’re the ones that demonize casuals. The ones that proclaim “I can’t wait til those filthy casuals leave”

And I have no problem telling those people that they already have their challenge available to them in other games and they are more than welcome to let the door hit their worthless kitten on the way out. They are poison and will forever be poison.

Rewards are a whole different matter. I’m not gonna start on that.

calyx.9086:

And those people need to go back to Candy Crush or the Sims or minesweeper or solitaire where they belong. All they do is contribute to the dumbing down of a game with a lot of potential.

How about all you “challenge seekers” go back to Dark Souls and WoW, and all those “UBER HARDMODE SO EDGY” games where you all belong?

You guys are making me agree with Vayne. You have no idea how much I -despise- that.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Well, if people bought more Gems, they could afford to turn the lights back on . . .

Maybe people would buy more gems if SAB were active and the SAB items were brought back.

Maybe one day ANet will realize how stupid their information blackout policy is.

Maybe one day pigs will fly of their own accord without the use of man made devices or strange combinations with avian creatures.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I hope the above comment reassures you,

It really doesn’t.

Because “the future” isn’t saying anything of consequence. It could be 3 months or 30 years.

I thought the communication thread had changed things, but you guys are still playing the same kitten game with us all. Nothing can truly change until you stop leaving us in the dark.

Vayne.8563:

Yes, I’m sure with you explaining all that to him, and obviously you weren’t at all biased, you’ve definitely got a case study there.

“A new player didn’t like the NPE so their friend must have sabotaged their ability to like it because otherwise that person would have obviously loved the NPE”

I think you should take another break from the forums, Vayne. Your white knight is showing.

Behellagh.1468:

I don’t go to reddit, unless it was a link to a funny picture or video from another website I frequent. So again, selective sampling.

Sorry, forgot my sarcasm tag.

Vayne made the poll and originally only had it on reddit. During that time, the results were more even across the board, but there were only like 200 votes. Then he released the poll to everyone else and now we have the results in the link.

Despite now having a much larger sample size (1500 compared to 200), Vayne acted like the current statistics were moot since everything was all hunky dory and fit his model of what the opinions should be back when only reddit was voting.

That poll only counted when only reddit was voting! The larger sample size it now has makes it not count as much! Just ask Vayne! After all, he made the poll, so he would know when the numbers count and don’t count! And clearly, those numbers are only meaningful when it’s a much smaller sample size that only has people from reddit!

It only counts as a poll if the results are perfectly even or if the results are positive towards the feature pack! Just ask Vayne!

Vayne.8563:

WoW, when it had 12 million subscribers could probably do with one.

They -still- have PTRs. They constantly have PTRs.

I wouldn’t know if they act on the data or not. Their newest expansion seems to suggest a return to their roots, however.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t think enough people went on the Rift test server to make a difference and you know…if they did, there wouldn’t have been enough people in the game on most servers.

>Implying people can’t split their time up between live and test play.

Vayne.8563:

PTRs are something fans often insist on but I’ve seen no actually evidence that they make the game better.

Well, again. PTRs are a two way street. It’s not enough for players to play and test them. The companies have to actually act on the data.

Vayne.8563:

If you’re going to invest those resources, you’d have to pretty much know they’d be worth it.

Well the only way for it to be worth it is for the company in question to actually utilize the data.

You seem to have faith in Anet’s ability to utilize data, so I fail to see why you have such problems with the idea of a PTR.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

And next question in line:

If we assume ANet isn’t listening now, then what makes people think they’ll listen to a PTR?

I believe the assumption there is that it would come along with general changes in Anet policy. Such as things like communication, etc.

MikaHR.1978:

Theres a lot of stuff discovered on PTR, and while some is squished, most of those roll out to live anyway.

Just a funny anecdote, when SWTOR rolled out PTR there was no means of insta max level so if you wanted to actually test endgame content you had to level to max and farm gear for it just as in live. And it was like that for a long long time

That would be on the company for not utilizing the data, and for not setting it up so that quick max level is possible in order to test end game content on the PTR.

Vayne.8563:

Where was the PTR then?

That would depend.

Did the company in question actually listen to the PTR data?

I beta’d Cata and Pandaria.

Wanna know one of the reasons they tanked so bad, despite having betas and PTRs?

Because Blizzard didn’t actually -do- anything with all the information that had been gathered in the various beta forums after a certain point. In some instances, they outright ignored the data that had been gathered.

But no, you obviously must be right. PTRs are worthless because of your crappy experiences in RIFT.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

But the question becomes, is the PTR and the potential to catch issues worth the investment of time, money, and hardware?

Only if you actually act upon the data gathered.

Vayne.8563:

We’ll see who’s right in two weeks time.

Oh, so now it will only matter in two weeks. You were so certain of the results back when they were more even and there was a rather small sample size.

Vayne.8563:

I should also point out, I posted that poll to reddit before I posted on the forum and the poll was far far more equal.

It was also less of a sample size.

Vayne.8563:

The fact is, off the forum, on reddit, before the forum voted, the poll was a whole lot different.

That tells me something too.

The only thing it should tell you is that you had a smaller sample size.

1000 votes between reddit and the forums is pretty good, all things considered. One would think you’d be able to accept the numbers since it’s your poll. It’s rather sad to see how you’re treating this now that it’s not in your favor.

Zoso.8279:

Gene Archer.8560:

Zoso.8279:

LOL no comment.

Very well. I accept your admission of defeat.

Admission of defeat. You made it very clear what your intentions are. Kid idc about your ego…

Kay, kid. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

(The hell is wrong with the filter, trying to start the sentence with Okay)

Zoso.8279:

LOL no comment.

Very well. I accept your admission of defeat.

Zoso.8279:

LOL man people read things the way they want :P everyone who reads the poll can make their own conclusions I don’t need someone to explain what the polls mean to me. LOL some people shakes head

Uh, no. The poll is rather clear.

“The new changes to leveling would be okay with some adjustment” means that the changes as they currently are, are -not- okay.

“I absolutely hate the new changes to leveling. " Means people straight up despise the changes.

“I don’t like the new changes to leveling” means dissatisfaction with the changes.

And the last two are rather obvious as well. People like the changes, and people feel the changes don’t affect them because for one reason or another, they are unaffected.

You’re just in denial at this point.