Guild Wars 2

CambrianExplosion.6394:

Well no, I mean they get large content updates in between expansions too. In the time since WoD was released, they got two raids and a new zone 3 times the size of SW. While we’ve just gotten SW.

That “new zone” was supposed to be released at the launch of WoD, as well as the Fields of Farahlon, which also got scrapped from release. As such, many WoW players don’t consider the Tanaan Jungle a “new zone” at all. Plus, some of those raids were supposed to also be released at launch. By most accounts, WoD was a dud in terms of the content it delivered for the cost of the game and the subscription with its “new patch content” just being stuff that should have been already in place at their launch. There’s a reason why Blizzard lost a third of their subscribers within one quarter. Who even knows how many more they lost come the upcoming second quarter report.

Kalavier.1097:

Current state of humanity is declined from it’s power and spread of GW1, which is ENTIRELY FREAKING EXPECTED. Orr was destroyed, Ascalon was doomed, and Kryta was the only place left in Tyria. Cantha sealed it’s borders and was cut off by Zhaitan, and Elonia conquered by Joko (which is also ENTIRELY predictable). With the weakened power that is expected from above, Kryta is having issues. ESPECIALLY since we all know the ministry (particularly Caudacus, though some ministers are fine with her) clash with Jennah, at times purposefully weakening Seraph field strength to make her look bad.

Re Centaur: How about answering my question:

C: Where is the evidence in-game that humans are getting any fight back or showing signs of a remerging ascendance? Please, I’m sincerely asking you. Where is any sign of this?

As I said in what you responded to above, those hearts quests don’t really matter. Yes, if we take the Harathi Hinterlands map to be post-Personal Story it would seem that the humans have the advantage on the centaur EXCEPT we are told in Living Story Season 2 that the centaur basically where they were at the start of the human personal story: at the front doorsteps of the human capital.

I’m sorry that I see humanity’s weakened state as of GW2 to be expected compared to GW1’s ending. Two nations destroyed, three enslaved, and the last one (Cause they forced Kurzicks and Luxons to merge with the empire) isolated.

Yes and no. We were told that humans are in a weakened state from their prominent position in GW1. But we were also told that we would see humanity reemerging and prevailing in GW2 from that weakened state. But the emphasis so far has been on humanity sucking in comparison with the other races.

Indeed. Instead of most settings which are “HUMANITY kitten YEAH!” and Humans shoving everybody else out, now Humans were struggling just to stay on the map. End of Personal story they are better off in several ways, but still not as strong as they once were.

Does this mean that humanity is not deserving of its own “HUMANITY kitten YEAH!” moment in GW2?

The fact people think humanity should still be one of the most major, driving forces in a world where (as stated above), basically ONE nation is left active and with open borders… I don’t understand it.

Norn have less territory. Asura have less territory. The Sylvari have less territory. The only nation(s) with more territory are the Charr. Yet humanity is treated like yesterday’s garbage by the story team. I get that they are trying to show humanity’s backs to the wall, but I think they showed too much of it and not enough of humanity successfully standing up on their own two feet without the gods. That is my criticism. We’re not seeing humanity pick itself back up. If all of GW2 is going to be about humanity’s continual decline or repeated falling back, then I would say that ArenaNet’s priorities are kittened up. No one wants to play that and be a part of repeated failures with no hope for success.

Kalavier.1097:

Actually, I would think humans had a hand. It’s similar to Charr tech, but IMO, it’s not enough to instantly go “Charr built that thing entirely.”

You’re right that I would not say that “Charr built that thing entirely,” as I would say that Charr and Asura built that thing entirely based on their tech.

From the idol of balthazar "Gixx: To each their own. No matter what power imbues this little trinket, its sufficiency is enough for me! " He doesn’t believe in the gods. He is clear on that. Above line says to me he may not be a fan, but others can believe what they want.

He also dismissively refers to Balthazar as the “God of Murder.”

The Seventh Reaper: Who dares summon me? A true priest! Is there such a thing in this fallen land?

That doesn’t imply that she was necessary. It implies that the Reaper was surprised to be summoned by a true priest and that anyone else may have been able to do the ritual.

A: Trahearne actually doesn’t turn into a military mastermind. He consults the commander and others frequently.
B: If you did the Priory or OoW paths, the Pale Reavers never appear.
C: I’m skeptical if we’ll see the Sylvari magically leading the charge and being the primary fighting force against the Modrem, as they apparently were in Orr (Despite the fact I never once saw the Pale Reavers in my Priory and Order of Whispers characters playthroughs in Orr. I know of them from wiki and doing ONE of the vigil missions with a friend). I also noticed plenty of non-sylvari Pact NPCS in events and at the temples, and in the story missions too even.

Just saying, when I played Orr, I didn’t feel like the Sylvari were dominating that arc. Humans maybe didn’t get as much attention as they should, but the Sylvari didn’t overshadow everybody.

This may be differences of opinion regarding the Orr storyline, because I felt that they did.

Who knows, maybe we’ll see the humans leading the charge. Or the Norn this time.

I’ll believe it when I see it. But based on what we have seen so far, I’m inclined to think that it’s going to be more of the Sylvari show.

A: And I’m trying to determine whether you do anything other than playing apologetics for the charr and dismissing people’s lore complaints, particularly about the state of humanity, here on the lore forums.

B: Who cares about how good they had it in GW1? What matters is GW2, the actual living game that we are playing now! Let’s talk about the state of humans now. Not back in GW1, but now. It’s about as relevant as discussing the current state of a sports team by reminiscing on how good they had it decades ago during a dynasty. It’s a moot point. A complete topical red herring. What matters is current racial lore development and sufficiently equal treatment of the races. I hope you would be able to grasp that much.

C: Where is the evidence in-game that humans are getting any fight back or showing signs of a remerging ascendance? Please, I’m sincerely asking you. Where is any sign of this? Doing the map heart quests would have suggested that humans are regaining the advantage UNTIL the mid-Season 2 council of racial leaders at the Pale Tree in which Queen Jennah asserts that the centaur are still a serious military threat that continues to attack their doorstep, such that humanity can only contribute non-combatants to the war effort.

D: That’s a bit of a false equivalence. Other races can have backstory without them constantly kittening on humanity, and that’s the issue at stake. But little chance of that when Jeff Grubb loves his asura (just reskinned versions of his Dragonlance gnomes) and Ree Soesbee loves her sylvari.

Kalavier.1097:

May I ask what makes it so distinctly Charr or Asura? Because honestly thinking about it, I don’t see it kitten heavily looking like it belongs to either.

We know that the creation of the pact ships are in the capability of charr and asura to make. The airships look mostly like charr Iron Legion tech. And indeed, the prototype airships were of charr design. We have a saturation of evidence regarding charr and asura tech levels. We have seen nothing from humans to suggest that they would be capable of making such a design on their own. So what about the airships would lead anyone to believe that they contributed to those designs apart from a minor blurb? Let’s put it this way, if we did not have that blurb about who designed the airships, which of the five races would you have guessed made it?

Hey, ONE ASURA, made a comment about ONE human god. Obviously the entire race treats kittening humanity like kitten right? Yeah, head of the Priory, but that doesn’t mean the entire priory makes fun of the human gods. Guess what, we have Asura making fun of the Norn or charr, is that treating the entire race badly? Nah.

Have you gotten that strawman out of your system? Ready to get to the discussion at hand? Good. Fact of the matter is that it’s the head of the Durmand Priory. If you are playing a human member of the Priory then it’s your boss who is utterly kittening on your faith. Pokka, the asura from the Cathedral of Silence mission, displays a similarly dismissive attitude towards the human gods as well. It’s demeaning for human players. Has the shoe ever been on the other foot? Not really as far as the GW2 experience is concerned.

Re Cathedral of Silence: AGAIN, it’s asuran tech that has to be used to help humans perform this ritual. And it’s an asura who is constantly being dismissive of human religion in the midst of the quest.

Priestess Rhie: We’ve done it! Praise Grenth.
Pokka: Praise the Eternal Alchemy, you mean. It was my device that summoned that creepy guy in the first place.

Destiny’s Edge is an adventuring group. They are not military masterminds. Rytlock and Logan have some experience in that area, but the rest do not.

Trehaerne is a scholar who ArenaNet turned into a “military mastermind.” The only that kept Destiny’s Edge from leading the Orr Offensive was ArenaNet. Both Logan and Rytlock have leadership and combat experience with troops. Eir was the tactical mastermind of Destiny’s Edge. Destiny’s Edge could have easily led the Pact.

Re Sylvari: Yep, so the storyline did give sylvari privilege in the Orr storyline and relegate humans to a marginally negligible role when it came to Orr and the holy city of Arah? Good to know.

We just found out that sylvari and the Pale Tree are technically minions of Mordremoth and you are skeptical about how prominent the sylvari will be in this storyline and in the defeat of Mordremoth? Oh, come on. You can’t honestly buy your own bullkitten, do you?

Maybe the next expansion can deal with the restoration of Orr and our forays into the Crystal Desert and Elona?

ZeftheWicked.3076:

I’m quite amused myself that someone just said what you did with straight face and good faith he’right.

Did I stutter?

My “indoctrination” begun oh..10 days ago? So yeah, it’s veeeery ancient;) Till that time it’s been F2P and GW2.
And how they got me you ask? With hairdresser. I got a quest to help this guy get his hairdressing tools back, which i do, heck nothing better to do atm. After getting all things together i get the expected one time hairstyle change coupon.

What i did not expect is that from this moment on i’d be able to call him as many times as i like and have my hairstyle changed for 2k ingame currency. No real $$ required. I dare you, I double dare you to try that with F2P or GW2 and not feel sore all over your wallet.

I dare to get my character’s hairstyle right the first time. This does not strike me as a compelling argument for a subscription.

Then it hit me. There’s no paywalls to cool stuff with FF XiV sub (i say FF XIV because i know SWTOR tries to still nickle and dime even sub players via their cash shop). I don’t have to watch endless waves of cool weapons and armor flow into some cash shop instead as rewards for doing actual ingame content.

When they guy in radical armor stands next to me – i know he earned it.
No “whales” and no “freeloaders” everyone has really equal footing here. Money’s left at entrance and then just play on, no strings attached. I can live with that kinda deal, and actully am, right now. And if it loses it’s luster – i’ll stop paying and that’s done:>

A subscription is its own paywall that often comes with a timewall to encourage the continued use of the subscription through the potential chance of getting that cool stuff. What you are describing though has always been a part of the subscription model. Nothing new. And there’s a reason why many of us left it for the GW2 model that we now have. If you want the FF14 model then play FF14. But don’t try to make GW2 into a game that it is not.

phys.7689:

There is always a cost with any monetization strategy.

Now for gw2 i think a yearly buy 2 play version update is about as close as they can come to a subscription.

Buying expansions is the same for many subscription models too. I would say the closest that GW2 gets to a subscription is the Living Story 2 that’s free for players who unlock the content but costs a fee for the rest.

I’m always amused by the people who have been so thoroughly indoctrinated by the outdated MMO subscription model that they are convinced that it’s necessary and beneficial.

What is this argument even about at this point?

Kalavier.1097:

For one, the pilot wheel. Second, the cannons strike me more toward human then Charr. Frankly, there is little there besides the windows that strike one as “asura”

A pilot wheel? Really? That’s your big evidence? Congratulations, humans, on your ability to stick a wheel on a high tech ship. Such a great technological contribution.

Who was generally, IIRC, grouchy, but otherwise perfectly fine with humans.

Apart from disparaging the human gods. And yes, that asura is the head of the Durmand Priory.

Ignoring that the problem in question was they required a VERY, VERY SPECIFIC RITUAL, performed correctly, to do the task. An Asura had a device which would detect the faint magic from the rituals in the past and allow them to see it. This isn’t bashing humans, it’s simply lost knowledge.

Again, same as the above, with asura doing human religion better than humans.

Um… how are they treated like second class citizens? Would you say that if it had been a Norn? An Asura?

I would accept the norn. They too need lore love. They may be worse off than humans. I probably would have preferred a human or if it had been Destiny’s Edge themselves leading the effort. As opposed to the dungeons being about uniting the band just so they can make a cameo in the Orr Offensive.

Also said legion is only in ONE of the story arcs. If you do the others they don’t even APPEAR.

And they were pure Sylvari for the only reason because of the fact they CAN’T become Risen. That’s IT. Again, failing to see how this makes humans second class citizens SO badly.

So here we are in Orr. The holiest of holy countries surrounding the holiest of holy cities for humans where the gods came. The reclamation of Orr should be of incredible import to humanity regardless of when they last were there or its current state. But who is the expert on all things Orr? Not a human, but a sylvari. Who leads the fight against Zhaitan and Orr? Not a human, but this same sylvari. The sylvari are treated as the special snowflakes who can’t be turned into Risen and a big deal is made that the sylvari are the “chosen ones” who feel its their destiny to fight Zhaitan. And now with Mordremoth being all about the sylvari (again), humans will likely be put on the back burner to the sylvari when it comes to the dragons.

So, Kalavier, do you ever tire of playing apologetics? Do you honestly think that humans are in a good state when it comes to lore development, particularly when it comes to the transition between GW1 and GW2? Do you not think that some races seem to be favored by ArenaNet’s story department?

Kalavier.1097:

They explicitly, utterly state human, asura, and charr engineering made the Airships fly.

I know but that doesn’t answer my question I asked you: “Would you even be able to tell that human tech was involved in those airships? What about those ships strike you as ‘human’ and not ‘charr’ or ‘asura’?”

The Asura who called Balthazar the god of murder was an older one, who often was grumpy in some sort IIRC. One Asura does not make the entire race.

A prominent asura during a storyline that everyone in the Priory plays.

The Asura had tech that allowed them to see the ritual’s details (which were lost because Orr sank). They needed the Orr specific rituals in order to summon the Avatar of Grenth/Reaper of Grenth… which nobody knew.

Yep. Asura saves the day for the humans regarding their gods and religions.

I don’t really recall Asura or Charr being super dismissive about humanity or the human gods during the Orr offensive. I recall the Orr offensive actually had a good bit of human lore, in Malchor’s Leap there is a camp filled with history scrolls so people could better know the surroundings. Sylvari, I don’t remember it happening much in Orr either. Now elsewhere I’ve seen some shake their heads at humans about the gods, but that is more of a “We didn’t see what the gods did… so we aren’t 100% believers.”

Yes, humanity isn’t as well off as it was before, in MANY ways.

There’s human lore but humans are treated as second-class citizens when it came to Orr. The Orr Offensive was led by a sylvari, the commander commissioned in a vision by the Pale Tree, and with a special elite legion of sylvari.

McWolfy.5924:

Staff is the new ranger weapon. Chill out

ArenaNet has also not indicated that there will not be overlaps in terms of new weapons granted by the e-spec. Regardless of whether or not the ranger gets a staff, it’s still possible for the thief to also get staff for their e-spec.

Kalavier.1097:

If the gods are actively influencing events and stuff around humanity… it’d stand races ‘without’ gods would be at a weaker point. IE, Charr were originally driven out because they didn’t have a god standing behind them as I recall.

Honestly, that ties into how humanity is starting to come out of relying on the gods. Human engineering was required to make the airships fly though, so they aren’t really behind.

Would you even be able to tell that human tech was involved in those airships? What about those ships strike you as ‘human’ and not ‘charr’ or ‘asura’?

Have we been playing the same game? The game where a lot of the lore on the Orr offensive was about sylvari with a lot of charr and asura tech with these civilizations being incredibly dismissive to humans and their gods? What with an asura referring to Balthazar as the “god of murder” and an asura who was required for a human priest of Grenth to perform a ritual in Orr?

Kalavier.1097:

For 250 years, it’s been transpiring around a single city. IMO, the real war ended with the Foefire. Hell, the way I recall the character wording in the Iron Legion charr intro sounded like the same thing. “Ascalon has paid for what they did in blood.”

Not “They still need to pay.” but “Paid.” past tense. Like they (at least Iron Legion) consider it dealt with mostly.

It may be a single city but it was still Ascalon as far as Ebonhawke and the Charr were both concerned until very recently. The war transpired that long. Deal thyself with it.

Hurrakan.4259:

And the city doesn’t really feel like a lived-in city anymore – there aren’t many places with ordinary peasant housing. Just a lot of wide open spaces.

This is my primary problem with the otherwise great New Lion’s Arch. There’s too much empty space for a metropolis. It needs more peddlers, merchants, and traders. It needs more NPCs going about their business in the city, whether the residential areas or in the barren Trader’s Forum or Grand Piazza.

I love the new Lion’s Arch design. It’s gorgeous, and it looks more like a city than it did. Nevertheless, it’s obviously not perfect. One area in which it feels deficient – which ArenaNet may address later – is that the city feels somewhat devoid of life. When I say that it feels devoid of life, I am not referring to player activity but of NPC activity.

Both the Trader’s Forum and Grand Piazza are incredibly open, but they also lack the flair of city life. Where are the market stands and peddling merchants that we see in Divinity’s Reach and Old GW2 Lion’s Arch?

The residential areas look nice, but it feels like there should be more of them due to all the empty space. Sure it’s a recovering city, but it is still a metropolis that attracts refugees, vagabonds, traders, and peoples from all tracts of life.

Excellent work so far on Lion’s Arch, but are there any plans by ArenaNet to add more liveliness of city life to Lion’s Arch?

Thanks.

Obsidian.1328:

As far as we know, only Kormir is a human god.

A priestess of Grenth in Orr during the Personal Story reveals that one of the great secrets of the Grenth’s cultus is that Grenth was mortal, being the son of Dwayna and a human sculptor.

Kalavier.1097:

How would you have it in GW2 if the gods were still very much, and very heavily involved in human life? Norn have the spirits of the wild, but what do Charr, Asura, or Sylvari have?

Doesn’t that follow the presumption that they need to have something? Not that it matters, since the Charr, Asura, and Sylvari have far more story in GW2 than the humans. Anything humans can do, they can do better.

Kalamir Of Redshire.7463:

The Charr-Ascalonian conflict happened over 250 years ago. For Americans and United Kingdomers, this is further removed from now than the American Revolution. There are a lot of legitimate reasons to be mad about the Charr-Ascalonian conflict, but I think that Tyrians realize that all the people involved are long dead. I side with the Charr more than the humans, in this case. They claimed the land 250 years ago, and no matter whether it was moral or not, it’s theirs.

No, the Charr-Ascalonian conflict did not happen two-hundred-and-fifty years ago; it has been transpiring for two-hundred-and-fifty years. Dwell on that.

PeterFries.1057:

Slight correction: Hero-Tron wasn’t so much freed from the Consortium as “made redundant” at the end of Lost Shores. Hero-Tron is a very rare golem in our game in that it seems to be self-aware, and to have actually developed as a character from the smug corporate functionary that was mocking jobless refugee settlers in Southsun Cove.

If golem sentience is rare, it makes me wonder who invented a golem of such rarity?

Seems a bit silly. Why should Braham even bother becoming a “Dragon Hunter”? Why not just become a ranger instead?

There’s no pleasing some people.

The video seems (perhaps understandably) oriented towards sPvP. How would your recommendations differ for WvW or Open World PvE or Fractal/Dungeon PvE? What sample builds would you possibly supply for each?

I suppose one of my biggest questions involves the hidden area underneath the Lion’s Shadow (?) inn around the Eastern Ward. It seems like the sort of location where the Order of Whispers should be, but I was unable to gather who is moving down there.

I’m more concerned about why the Orders of Whispers meeting place is so open. Their old sewer base behind the Captains’ ship was one of the greatest small touches of Old Lion’s Arch.

Kalavier.1097:

Each to their own. I don’t find them insanely boring personally.

I’m waiting now for either the return of Destiny’s Edge 1.0 or for ArenaNet to develop a Destiny’s Edge 3.0 roster. I’ve known a number of people who have quit caring about the Living Story because they were so bored and exasperated by Destiny’s Edge 2.0.

Kalavier.1097:

“Destiny’s Edge 2.0” is a group of adventurers in their ‘newb’ years.

Remember, originally Rytlock and Logan had trouble with some devourers until Caithe showed them how :P. The ‘b team’ simply isn’t as experianced as adventurers as we the player characters are, or Destiny’s Edge.

They are skilled and experianced, but not as much.

Their experience will do little for their boring personalities.

I’m annoyed just about any time Destiny’s Edge 2.0 of the Living Story shows up or speaks. They’re so boring and flat. I hope ANet does not get rid of Destiny’s Edge 1.0 and force the B-team on us.

DarksunG.9537:

Palador.2170:

I think we’re going to see a “passing of the torch” from DE1 to DE2. There’s been a point made that DE2 is really just a bunch of nobodies, and it’s past time for that to change.

The only thing it’s pass time to do is kill off DE2. The lamest bunch of heroes in all of GW.

Agreed. I’m so GD tired of the Guild Wars 2 B-team of the Living Story and their cardboard cut-out personalities.

Alice.5360:

If you think Dragonhunters got a fair shake, look at these images:

Dragon hunter: https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/f4d76Glamor-1.jpg

Druid: https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/179625/Druid_shoulders.jpg

Reaper: https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/bc1afGlamor-1.jpg

Chronomancer: http://totallygamergirl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/guild_wars_2_heart_of_thorns_chronmancer_02.jpg

Druid, Reaper, Chronomancer all capture the essence of the class and provide stylistically complementary weapon and gear pieces. The teams that developed them had a clear image they wanted to represent.

Dragonhunter, on the other hand, is sold as a big-game-hunter, given a bow that is back line support, kitted-out in two laughably dull dragon-pieces, and then spun by the community managers as a zealous “witch hunter”. It’s all over the place!

Anyway, with the images of Braham and Eir’s bow, it’s quite clear Anet is making us dragonhunters because Braham is a guardian and he has a bone to pick with Mordermoth. It’s fine if they want Kasmeer and Majory and Rytlock to be the “exemplars” of other classes but not every class needs to follow they Destiny Edge counterpart. It’s bad, contrived storytelling and it is trying to shoehorn a popular class into a role that doesn’t fit it.

PS: One final image to leave you all with.
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/gw2-guardian-elite-specialization-teaser.jpg

The image above is what hyped everyone: it’s an image of a specialized guardian, nothing more or less. No dragon theme.

(And as a tiny grievance, the colors are even right in the teaser image whereas dragonhunter was revealed in shades of… copper?)

I suppose that’s one of my biggest problems with the ‘dragonhunter.’ The more we see of the other elite specializations, the clearer it becomes that the ‘dragonhunter’ concept was poorly conceived and hastily thought-out.

Dondarrion.2748:

I’m resigned by now to due to Anet not giving us any indication they’ll pay attention to our concerns over the name. So I’ll just spec myself as Dragon Humper and ridicule the name, but enjoy the elite spec.

In my mind, I’ll just be Guardian and I’ll never say the DH name ever…

I loathe this name, but ArenaNet better put effort into the lore to justify this name. More importantly, I’m hoping that the revisions to the non-elite profession specializations means that they will be reworking the DH elite specializations. The names are uninspiring and hardly evocative of dragonhunting.

Achrisos.1360:

As with any profession certain trait lines matches up with certain weaps. Right now we have seen a Defensive stance, a Support stance and Condi stance with at least 2 more to go if not a 3rd elite stance. The other 2 may very well be another another condi, dps, offensive support and so on.

Cant wait to find out more!

Which strikes me as all the more reason why Revenant should have weapon swap so they can use the weapons associated with both of their legends of choice.

Foefaller.1082:

Genesis.8572:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Vayne.8563:

Since it’s based around support, the odds are it won’t be high DPS. That would make it quite OP.

Yup. There is another weapon set more focused around ‘High" DPS, but can’t talk about that yet.

Please not another greatsword.

Based on screenshots and datamines, it’s either Sword/shield or sword/dagger, and Revenants won’t get greatswords.

Praise be to the Six!

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Vayne.8563:

Since it’s based around support, the odds are it won’t be high DPS. That would make it quite OP.

Yup. There is another weapon set more focused around ‘High" DPS, but can’t talk about that yet.

Please not another greatsword.

snow.8097:

wow still a discussion?
what about waiting? or accepting

What about them? What would those tactics accomplish if people dislike the name?

Nike.2631:

Like the symbol name change with Inquistor or Dragonhunter. Seeker’s Ward is a good swap for your theme – calling the effect a ward is still a little strange to me – I think I’d like Hunter’s/Seeker’s Binding better but that’s just me.

I enjoy being reminded of the obvious choices that I was missing. Playing off Binding is one of those.

I would avoid using “Zeal” and Zealot" outside of the Zeal line if possible. One of the challenges of working in an established namespace is not reusing terms .

How about Fanatic’s Aggression (Zealot’s Aggression) and True Conviction (Hunter’s Determination).

All sounds in-theme and flavorful. I could find uses for a heavy armor hood in my wardrobe .

I don’t think it’s necessary, but I think this could be a good and understandable set of changes. Hopefully they’ll review it with an open mind. And at the very least save it to look at again in the next wave if it doesn’t get used here.

Great to hear.

Orpheal.8263:

Puncture Shot > Seeking Arrows (as it was already a GW1 Skill, this would add some nostalgia simply)

I like this.

Deflecting Shot > Punishing Shot (Same effect, + reflects a part of the damage thedeflected projectiles would have done back to the source!!) Increase CD to 12s
Symbol of Energy > Symbol of Purgation with a slight effect change of causing Burning so more Conditions an Enemy has and healing allies, so more Conditions they have when standing in the Symbol.
Hunter’s Ward > Seeker’s Ward Simply just only rename it, like Genesis suggested also.

These are also good proposals.

Adept > Piercing Light > Purified Blood

I like this better than the name I came up with.

Dulled Senses > *Sight of Truth

I suppose the obvious truncation would probably just be Truesight.

Big Game Hunter > Final Judgment

Also a good name.

Conclusion: Most of the suggested things here are basically only simply renames to make the whole design in and about itself alot more cohesive for a Seeker/Inquisitor as a highly zealotry witchhunter inspired super righteous E-Spec, which seeks and destroys all evil beings, that need to be purged and erased out of Tyria by their strong faith, that what they do will bring justice to Tyria. That they wil lfind the truth that lies somewhere behind the existance of the elder dragons and they they will be the ones, that are chosen to bring back right and order to Tyria by challenging their own fate as being Seekers, apologists of justice and harbinger of truth, which relentlessly bring justice to the world and never stop under their zealotry, until they finally fulfill their job and return as the righteous brave white knights that they are which can’t see any unjust thing happening right in front of them simply (in case of humans, under the name of Kormir – so by lore it simply can be explained, that humans caused the first Seekers to appear and other races just adapted to that extreme rightneousness of the humen)

Kormir would be an interesting patron, given how she is the goddess of truth, and as a human she had no experience with the White Mantle or their inquisitors.

Dante.1763:

Genesis.8572:

Inquisitor
This is my short proposal about how some easy adjustments to the ‘dragonhunter’ e-spec works for an ‘inquisitor’ e-spec. I have discussed the advantages of the ‘inquisitor’ name over the ‘dragonhunter’ earlier in this thread, so I won’t repeat myself: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/DragonHunter-name-feedback-merged/5078126.

Wow i like that alot! :O

Thanks.

Chameleon Dude.1564:

I’m really not a fan of the Inquisitor alternative, as I see too many ties to the White Mantle and religious zealotry. However, to me, this makes a ton more sense than Dragonhunter. Personally, I’m still in the Sentinel camp, as I feel the AoE support provided, along with being at the backline but also protecting other backliners is more suited to that name than most of the others I’ve seen floating around. As always though, this is an opinion and nobody’s opinions are right or wrong. Except for Anet’s, with their high concepts.

The links may certainly be there, but desperate times call for desperate measures. And I could see all the playable races with their own inquisitors dealing with all the issues that Mordremoth and the Maguuma Jungle bring.

Inquisitor
This is my short proposal about how some easy adjustments to the ‘dragonhunter’ e-spec works for an ‘inquisitor’ e-spec. I have discussed the advantages of the ‘inquisitor’ name over the ‘dragonhunter’ earlier in this thread, so I won’t repeat myself: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/DragonHunter-name-feedback-merged/5078126.

Weapon Skills: Weapon skills need minimal tweaks. Even then, these changes are not necessary for an inquisitor e-spec. I would just recommend renaming “Symbol of Energy” to “Symbol of Searing” and “Hunter’s Ward” to maybe “Seeker’s Ward.”

Heal, Utility, and Elite Skills: It turns out that the utility skills are more appropriate for an inquisitor motif than a dragonhunting one: e.g. Purification, Fragments of Faith, Light’s Judgment, Test of Faith, and Procession of Blades. So what of “Dragon’s Maw”? I don’t think that the animation needs to change, but it could simply be renamed to “Inquisitor’s Verdict.”

Traits: The traits would need to be given greater thematic cohesion for the inquisitor e-spec.
- Minor Traits: Virtuous Action, Defender’s Dogma, and Pure of Sight
- Adept Traits: Repenter’s Blood (Piercing Light), Zealot’s Aggression, Wings of Wrath (Soaring Devastation)
- Master Traits: Unwavering Zeal (Hunter’s Determination), Bastion of Faith (Bulwark), Inquisitor’s Mark (Dulled Senses)
- Grandmaster Traits: Confessor’s Grace (Hunter’s Fortification), Faith’s Repulsion (Heavy Light), Foebane (Big Game Hunter)

E-Spec Weapon and Armor Skins: The inquisitor armor could be a helm that mostly hid the face, being reminiscent of an executioner’s hood. The inquisitor weapon would be a longbow made to look similar to balancing scales (of justice). No such longbow exists in the game with such a motif. What of the preexisting dragonhunter longbow? ArenaNet can sell the dragonhunter longbow skin on the Trading Post. The gloves could be integrated into a dragon-motif heavy armor or outfit.

Obtena.7952:

Genesis.8572:

Nike, could you try being at least fifty percent less patronizing? Thanks.

Against the ignorance that most people demonstrate, I think he’s holding back. People underestimate the amount of work and thinking that have gone behind this name, regardless of what we think of it and it’s actually pretty insulting to the devs seeing the way I’ve seen most people marginalize and critique the work. Nike speaks with a solid knowledge of these things.

And you know what? That’s sad that so much work in such poor quality. I recognize that a lot of work went into such a poor concept. But just because a lot of work went into the concept does not mean that the result materialized as quality. I think that that thought they had a real “crowd pleaser” but it turned out that just having a guardian plus a bow and a thinly spread concept was not a crowd pleaser. I think that ArenaNet can do better. I trust that ArenaNet can do better. I know that ArenaNet can do better. ‘Dragonhunter’ is not the best they can produce as a concept. And that’s the ArenaNet that I want and expect. Not some half-effort product, but ArenaNet at its best. An ArenaNet that wants to inspire its constituency into fantastical game play.

Nike.2631:

I think it’s pretty clear they DON’T want the E-specs to be considered close to the base profession. Its not supposed to evoke “more Guardian” its supposed to evoke “something new (that shares some techniques with Guardians)”

By the way, I’m hoping that “e-spec” is my greatest contribution to the nomenclature of elite specialization discussion. It may have been used before me. I don’t know. I just know that I have pushed this particular shorthand, so I’m glad to see you use it.

If it’s anything like engineer, half of your abilities will not work underwater.

For those who wanted it, the DH e-spec was the best and last chance for a Paragon. It’s clear looking through the DH’s virtues that the Paragon was gutted for the DH.

Ojyh.9842:

Hey Nike ! you know that the armor they showed on the DH is already in the game right ? Only the gloves are new.

The Chronomancer only got new shoulders. The Reaper a new hat. The DH new gloves. Nothing more.

Gloves + Bow : it’s not that much to change. They even might have something ready to replace them already considering they probably have abandonned concept arts or models they never used before and that could fit.

I would be in favor of an inquisitor helm. Amusingly enough, the Dragon Age Inquisitor Helm does have a dragon design. The inquisitor bow could be designed to look like a set of balancing scales that imply a weighing of moral goodness in the determination of judgment.

Nike, could you try being at least fifty percent less patronizing? Thanks.

Nike.2631:

And there you’ve made the argument for a change more effective. I would totally include that in any serious proposal, because it shows an awareness of their process and the steps they’re on/have already taken. Doesn’t address the skill FX, but that’s only the elite.

Skill animations have been changed before and they will be changed again. I’m not too concerned about it. Others have noted that the guardian e-spec shares attack animations with rangers, so that should probably change as well.

Maybe some of these names being tossed out willy-nilly can be made more credible by including how you’d like the armor, weapon and skill FX to work with it? Present the whole package instead of just one word as if that’s all that goes into picking an E-spec name.

An excellent idea. It’s a bit sad that the azureflame bow has become even more iconic for the dragonhunter spec than the dragonbow due to that amazing piece of concept art.

Nike.2631:

Please understand the context for me – The entire structure of E-specs is based off of a couple of documents I wrote for ArenaNet (yes, it’s evolved since then, which is a good thing). I wrote that design doc after having made it extremely clear I thought sub-classes were a terrible idea (in no small part because of the issue of naming them – sound familiar?). But IF sub-classes were going to be ‘a thing’ then here’s how I would go about minimizing the damage they’d to. Because I don’t have to like an idea to want to understand it and improve it.

Basically I prophesized this entire argument IN DETAIL 18 months ago. So in many ways the Dragonbane post is the same thing as the E-spec design doc – I felt the need to legitimately play for the other side, to see if I could craft an argument FOR changing the name and frame it in a way that wasn’t wasting my breath. On the whole I’m pretty satisfied with how it went, but I’m not gonna cry if it doesn’t turn into another case of ‘be careful what you wish for…’ There is the possibility of a better name — there always was — but I find most of what’s been pitched to be generic drivel that ignores the intent that’s been put forward and the visual work already done.

Whoopty-freakin’-doo. Want a cookie for it?

Is that really all that much work? Some generic looking dragon gear? That’s it? So how difficult would it be to change all that visual work? Just put the gear on the Black Lion shop and then they can milk us dry for it. Give NCSoft a needed boost in quarterly earnings. Then ArenaNet can make some other gear for a more appropriate guardian e-spec.

Nike.2631:

No less terrible than last time it came up .

And still miles ahead of your precious ‘dragonbane.’

Torturers and murderers aren’t generally a heroic archetype. Tyria had them before and seems to largely be glad to be rid of them.

ArenaNet said they were going for a “witch hunter” archetype, which is also neither “a heroic” archetype. Long story short, there is plenty of room for the ‘inquisitor.’ How much you want to bet that ‘inquisitor’ was one of ArenaNet’s most viable alternative names?

Nike.2631:

I think some of us need a name that reflects the Devs clearly stated intent that this is a branch of Guardians who are not on defense, not standing watch, not shouting ‘halt, who goes there’ in the night but are instead playing offense, going out into the wilds, stalking and killing the servants of Dragons.

Sounds like this makes them regular guardians as opposed to dragonhunters.

Jeff Grubb: With the turmoil in Elona and the spread of the Order of Whispers into other lands, more Paragon teaching showed elsewhere in Tyria. These teachings melded with other traditions, and over time, the Guardians and their abilities can be found throughout the world and among all the races. They are not tied to a particular race, philosophy, or group of gods but rather to a larger concept of proactive defense, of taking the fight to a foe and protecting those you fight alongside while appealing equally to humanity’s defensive nature and the Charr’s desire to rule the battlefield.

So basically what you are describing of the dragonhunter adds nothing new to the preexisting guardian concept, which is another reason why I dislike the dragonhunter name. It does not appear that ArenaNet is aware of their own conception of the guardian and what their lore developer said about the profession to begin with.

Me, I’d look for a name that reflects the more aggressive nature they feel inspired this E-spec.

Inquisitor?

Vizardlorde.8243:

You mean reliable range right? cause AFAIK nades are 1500 range traited but only work effectively on large targets like jormag cause of the spread.

Isn’t grenade range being reduced for HoT?

narwhalsbend.7059:

Does that really count though? Caladbolg functions as a bundle rather than a weapon.

Why would it not? When ArenaNet was first talking about e-specs and why certain characters were using non-profession weapons, they referenced Trahearne as a necromancer who also used a greatsword.