Guild Wars 2

General Non-Legend Revenant Utility Skills?

Utility skills are called “utility” skills for a reason. Players use utility skills to optimize their builds and to provide the utility their builds would otherwise lack: i.e., condition removal, boon upkeep, stun break, mobility, etc. Of course the engineer loses utilities when they equip kits, but they also have their toolbelt skills which often provides its own set of utility functions: e.g. elixir kit’s stunbreak/regen, bomb kit’s blast finisher/knockback. Utility skills are often swapped out as the occasion calls for it. You know you may need more group support in one fight or projectile reflect an other.

But we have no control over our utilities with the Revenant apart from picking which two sets we have. This sometimes makes some of these skills relatively useless on our action bar depending on the situation. We are stuck with these utilities. Revenants may be able to swap utilities, but they do not get the option of selecting

Suggestion: Add General Revenant Utilities that are tied to the Mists but not particular Legends. Call them “Mist Weaving” skills or something. These skills would represent the Revenant’s general training with mist energy. These general utilities can be used to replace any given utility skill on a given legend. Such skills may include a stunbreak, condition removal, speed boost, gap closers, or a teleport. The sort of utility skills that people are clamoring for to equip on their Revenant. These Mistweaving Skills could then be tied to the non-Legend specific Invocation Traitline.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

NoxInfernus.2361:

A weapon swap would improve the diversity of the profession.

Not not by much sadly. ArenaNet was so focused on creating synergy within legends that there’s not enough synergy between the weapons, traits, and legends.

Zev.3407:

Rev staff isnt lower DPS because its tied to the “support” legend . . its lower dps cus it can heal while u fight

Except we have evidence to the contrary directly from Roy himself regarding how the staff was once meant to be DPS but then designed to be more in tune with Ventari.

draxynnic.3719:

Regarding the elementalist comparison, I have three observations:

First, there are conjures. Sure, they’re a temporary solution, but you may only need it temporarily, and I find that if you have the 25 charges trait and you can pick up your second conjured weapon, you’re likely to have recharged the utility by the time the second weapon runs out.

Second, dagger does give you a fairly melee-esque option with the option to go to water for a little more range if you need it (sure, it’s only 600, but that’s often enough). Going staff or scepter commits you to more range (but see below), but this is like a mesmer or a ranger taking two ranged options: you’ve done it by choice.

Third, when people say ‘melee’, what they often mean is ‘the capability to DPS at melee levels when an enemy is in your face’. Elementalists can do this: many people would say that scepter, FGS and even staff are actually most effective at close fighting, and the fact that they do have longer ranges available simply adds to their versatility. Instead of being stuck at range, then, the staff or scepter elementalist is practically being able to have their cake and eat it too. The revenant hammer, however, is similar to mesmer greatsword and ranger longbow: not only does it not match a melee set for damage, but the damage it does do is handicapped at close range.

To make matters worse, the rev hammer doesn’t have any gap openers like mesmer greatsword, ranger longbow, and, it has to be said, elementalist staff have. Revs don’t even have access to movement speed buffs for kiting. A hammer rev caught in melee basically has no good options apart from throwing legend skills like Vengeful Hammers… and because of energy costs, that’s even more of a temporary solution than an elementalist invoking a conjure.

The Loremeister speaks wisdom.

Shaaba.5672:

I was kinda hoping the news of the Reaper being possibly renamed would have sparked renewed interest or comments from devs or something on the Dragonhunter.

Sadly that was not the case at all. I kinda suspect that it may partially be rooted in stubbornness.

yhvh.8703:

People are complaining of Rev dps when they doesn’t even have the dps legend yet? XD

Yet we have the condition legend who does terrible condition damage, a healing legend who heals awkwardly, and the tanky legend who people are reporting does not feel tanky. Should people not be concerned about rev dps even without the dps legend?

Right now we just have “Fractal Mastery” and "Legendary Precursor Mastery " revealed thus far. What other masteries would you like to see for the Old World of Pact Tyria?

Regional Masteries: e.g., Ascalonian Lore, Krytan Lore, Orrian Lore, etc.

Racial Masteries: e.g., Skritt, Quaggan, Grawl, Hylek, etc.

Dungeon Masteries: Improves your abilities and rewards doing non-Fractal dungeons.

Gimmicky Trainwreck

phokus.8934:

Roy has to defend Revenant as he’s the lead designer around it.

Grant it, it’s still new and still up for changes but talk about coming up short big time. No disrespect to Roy but Robert Gee most likely would have done a much better job at designing this class. And that’s apparent from the trait redesign and the current sad state of the Revenant class.

I’ve never really understood why individual profession designs are so closely tied to particular people as opposed to a more collaborative team effort?

stof.9341:

Note that elementalists cannot switch from a melee form to a range form either with their atunement swaps.

Note that elementalists do have conjuration weapons at their disposal.

stof.9341:

Note that the Revenant is the only class that can switch their skills #6-#0

Note that this does nothing to address the core problem.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

We have not released all weapons and legends for the Revenant yet. Right now there is definitely a gap in the playstyles offered as we haven’t discussed the more pure DPS focused setup yet. soon tm.

Getting Shiro and double swords is not going to be a magical cure all for the Revenant. There should probably be more weapon sets than legends. This whole “one weapon set married to one legend” thing is not working out.

The Revenant does not really have two missing trait lines. It has one missing trait line. The e-spec trait line should not count, since we are talking about the base profession. The e-spec will (somehow) change how the profession will play, so we can’t really count on Glint to save the base profession.

I like your feedback. Some nice summation of issues but focused on weapons, legends, and some overarching issues.

ronpierce.2760:

This Thread

There… two words…

I thought you provided good feedback. I may add my thoughts to your thread later.

DiogoSilva.7089:

cocowoushi.7150:

@DiogoSilva I’m afraid I still have to disagree. No other class is stuck to the same weapon skills. Eles change throughout the first, as with Engi kits. “Weapon swapping” our skills is not fun. I get new situational utilities, but not new attacks. It makes fighting as a Rev repetitive, predictable, and just boring.

If I’m stuck in Mace/Axe and I need to pick off someone at 1200 range I can’t do this. Axe’s range is only 900. I’m totally useless if someone gets out of that range. I can’t even gap close (Staff 5) because that’s a different weapon.

Elementalists have a fixed range, btw, yet they work fine as they are. Staff is weak against melee, D/D is quite close-ranged.

I’d rather have revenant’s issues be fixed by making utilities and weapon skills more useful, than adding a second button for a second weapon swap. Other class needs to press 2 buttons to change to a new skill set, revenant’s shouldn’t either (this includes my criticism towards ventari’s tablet function).

Elementalists also have the option of slotting conjuration utility skills that can give them more style options in fights.

Knighthonor.4061:

Genesis.8572:

One of the big things we keep getting told about the Revenant is how it can double-heal by switching legends. But how does this work out in practice? Are the heals actually balanced to take this into account? Would that not then lock you out of a crucial heal if you needed the heal after you had just switched legends?

Would it be more feasible for Revenants to pick a heal that does not change when legends are swapped?

What have been your experiences with your revenant and your skill 6 abilities?

If you have Centaur as a legend, you dont get double heal. And pretty much screwed if focused.

And that’s another problem too.

This is why I think it would almost be preferable for the Revenant’s skill 6 heal not to change, but that’s no longer a feasible option due to Ventari.

Kharr.5746:

No synergy.

/15 chars

This certainly seems to come up frequently apart from the “no damage” issue.

skowcia.8257:

The heals are too weak. Rev has no sustain right now, it feels like a warrior before buffed healing signet kicked in, except you dont have any moves to defend yourself, mobility or or even damage. Result – everyone walk over revenant without any issue, even new players. Funny tho as Jalis was sold as “tank” legend yet it doesnt provide any tank abilities at all. So yes double heal is not worth it in current state.

This is part of my worry. Since the Rev has two heals, those healing values have to be balanced with legend-swapping in mind. The result being that the Rev heals may be individually too weak.

Chobits.2430:

The class is only 50% complete for this beta test. What you are looking for isn’t currently available. The general consensus predicts that we will get more dps/zerker geared legends, specializations, and weapons down the line.

Four of five specializations does not strike me as only 50 percent complete, and the fundamental profession mechanics will not change with an additional specialization or weapons.

One of the big things we keep getting told about the Revenant is how it can double-heal by switching legends. But how does this work out in practice? Are the heals actually balanced to take this into account? Would that not then lock you out of a crucial heal if you needed the heal after you had just switched legends?

Would it be more feasible for Revenants to pick a heal that does not change when legends are swapped?

What have been your experiences with your revenant and your skill 6 abilities?

makagoto.1204:

It’s not like we already have all the info about future skills for the revenant, but for now this is a rather good stun break, which many people simply ignore.

Quarktastic.1027:

Genesis.8572:

Dead.5829:

How about this?

How about it? Revenant critics have known about this for some time. The issue is having to trait Invocation for a stun break.

Spammable stun break. No other class can boast such a feat.

Which requires you to trait Invocation. Are you two incapable of listening?

Penguin.5197:

Revenants got the best…stunbreakers

I assume you are joking.

Channeling Garbage.

I was a low level guardian running the level 1 account bound gear in Queensdale doing some quick leveling for Black Lion Key runs and way out damaging level 80 downscaled Revenants. That’s sad.

Dead.5829:

How about this?

How about it? Revenant critics have known about this for some time. The issue is having to trait Invocation for a stun break.

Leo G.4501:

Probably old news but it looks like the French audience had a distaste for the French name of the Reaper being rather cliche (translating to a combination of “death” + “reaper”) and looks like the devs are looking into changing the name.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/39srfs/reaper_in_french_arenanet_listen_to_us/

Think there’s still hope for Dragonhunter?

Sadly no, because ArenaNet still probably thinks that the ‘dragonhunter’ name is “high concept.”

The med kit needs another epic rework. Having a healing turret and elixir gun provides more solo and group healing/support utility than the med kit. The med kit is terrible at its own job.

NapTooN.6283:

skowcia.8257:

Sagat.3285:

They won’t let it suck.

They just did. A class without stunbreaks wont survive in pvp long. Even necromancers are in better state when it comes to stunbreaks+damage mitigation via shroud, rev doesnt have even that.

So you are fine with the Necro using his Class Mechanic to break a Stun but if the Rev is the exact same, it is a “NoNo”? Wow, just Wow.

Even if the Necro does not trait for DS stunbreak, they have access to stunbreaks through a fair number of their utilities: Spectral Armor, Spectral Walk, Plague Signet, Well of Power, and the Flesh Wurm’s Necrotic Traversal.

What stunbreak options does a Revenant who does not trait for it have?

Vayne.8563:

Right, but there are two people in this thread blaming Anet for creating all this hype or overhyping the game. Since I started by replying to them, not sure why you’re responding to my posts. I agree that Anet has done a bad job of hyping this.

Which is why I’m disagreeing with the people who are claiming Anet is responsible for over-hyping this product.

Okay. We’re clear now.

People use shield?

Khenzo.2465:

I think they are aware of all of this by now.

Of course. I wanted to provide more of a summation of the circulated problems.

And I would not be suprised at all if they designed Glint to be a workaround to solve some of these issues.

Like they got too far into the classes development and the vision they had for it whilst in theory sounds cool, the concept, but in pratical application it left the class feeling rather kitten and shallow of a class.

Which is where Glint comess in, I’d imagne they will perhaps use Glint as a scapegoat to sort some of these issues.

Personally, I think one of the biggest things the class needs weapon swap, so you can take a weapon to compliment each legend, seeming Anet are really trying to push weapons and legends as a pair (which is a massive, massive mistake, traitlines being aimed for a legend I guess I can sort of understand) they want us to swap legends frequently it’s obvious, but I’m getting the uneasy feeling it’s just going to cause legend camping.

Which is a shame.

Agreed. It needs something more for sure, and I doubt that Shiro or Glint will be any form of magical band-aid. Just about all playtest reports say about the same about how shallow, clunky, and cumbersome the revenant feels right now.

Vayne.8563:

But we’re the hype. Anet isn’t really saying this is the best thing since sliced bread and the gave a very brief overview of what was going to be in the expansion on day one. In theory, there really was nothing left to hype.

In fact, the hype so far has been limited to Guild Halls and the launch announcement. If anything the game has been underhyped.

The people I’ve been replying too are claiming Anet created “all this hype”. It was hyped by the company.

If it was Anet’s intent to create hype, they’re doing a pretty bad job.

That’s my point. ArenaNet is doing a fairly bad job of generating hype for the purposes of their sales. We are the hype or, rather, the lack thereof. We lack hype because ArenaNet has not provided much to get us hyped about in terms of content. They have given us a few elite specializations, morsels and crumbs of the Revenant and masteries, a new PvP map/type and a new WvW map (both updated regardless of whether you get the expansion), guild halls, and not much else in terms of meaty content. And some of ArenaNet “hype-generating” announcements have been complete duds or waves of negative press, as was the case with the Dragonhunter e-spec and the pre-purchase announcements.

It’s possible that it received its name from its days as King Doric’s summer palace – for whatever reason that may be – but the actual arch was built over in the hundred years of development and its transition as the Krytan capital city.

Astralporing.1957:

Diovid.9506:

To be fair, to me the ritualist always seemed like a weird mix of monk (the Restoration attribute), elementalist (the Channeling attribute) and necromancer (the general look and feel of the profession) so the Ritualist itself also seemed disjoined, at least to me.

That was in GW1 when classes were much more specialized. Ritualist seemed out of place there, because it was more like GW2 classes than GW1 ones. It had a good mix of damage, cc, healing and buff support, as well as characteristic class elements (spirits, ashes and weapon buff skills). Which makes its absence in GW2 even more disappointing.

See the Engineer. ArenaNet wanted an engineer back in GW1, but did they had some design issues, so the they reskinned it and turned it into a Ritualist. Come GW2, they decided to go back to their vision for the Engineer, which was reborn from the ashes of the Ritualist.

Danikat.8537:

Like Vayne I don’t understand this idea that it’s important to be constantly excited.

I would say that it boils down to the underlying question, particularly in light of the HoT pre-purchase sales: “Is it all worth it?” Hype creates the illusion of content and value. Hype generates sales. We want to want to play and buy, and ArenaNet wants us to buy and play. I, for example, want to pre-purchase, much like I did for the original game, but I have not seen much evidence or generated hype. Plus, ArenaNet fudged up when it came to the Dragonhunter, which first-degree murdered a lot of the hype I initially had for HoT.

Diovid.9506:

Genesis.8572:

The real lack of meaningful options for the Revenant will likely kill this profession for many vets.

I don’t believe that. If the Revenant literally had 0 different choices but it would be stronger than other professions, it would be used. It wouldn’t be particularly fun, but it would be used. Thus it is not just about the options, but also about it’s power. Of course I’m not saying that anything we’ve seen implies that it will be powerful.

While I recognize that celestial gear (and waiting for Shiro Power!) has limited our full sense for the Revenant’s strength, I’m not sure if I entirely agree. Sure, we want strong professions, but we also want meaningful choices and viable options that provide flexibility and replay-ability with our professions. When you read the profession sub-forums, one of the biggest complaints, which likely led to the specialization and traitline overhaul, was not just whether a profession was strong but also how much viable customization was available. And if the Revenant was stronger than the other professions, we know that it would be nerfed into the ground leaving it weak, boring, and dull.

My fears for the Revenant profession:

• Invocation is Mandatory: If you want your character to have a stunbreak, you must go with Invocation for Empty Vessel. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. But you have no means of having two stun breaks at the same time. There may be a reason why ANet sees little problem with that since the Rev can only have two legends out, which means that only two other specializations can be used to develop your legends of choice. But this is indicative of a problem…

• Lack of Build Diversity: The Revenant has virtually minimal build customization options. The Rev lacks weapon swapping can only pick two legends, and these legends determine your healing, utility, and elite skills. Lack of utility options may kill this profession for me. Sure, the Rev has six utilities, but they are predefined for you. You’re choosing which two sets of three you want. But that may force you into having useless utilities you never use on your bar but you have anyway for a particular utility.

• Lack of Weapon Swapping: Having one weapon is not in itself a problem. Elementalists have one weapon set, but that one weapon set provides them with 20 skills for skills 1-5, and they have their own choice for skills 6-10, which amounts to 25 skills at a time. The engineer has only one weapon too for skills 1-5, but they also have F1-F5 and access to kits, which can provide an additional 5 skills. An engineer can have access to as few as 15 skills (kitless) or as many as 35 skills (kit max) on a character. The Revenant, which lacks weapon swapping, is tied to 15 skills. Most classes get around 15 skills courtesy of weapon swapping. The difference is that weapon swapping provides an advantage in terms of range vs. melee or the dictates of the situation: i.e. skirmish/bunker/etc. The Rev is stuck in either melee or range. There’s no getting out of it. An engineer’s weapons provide semi-melee range, and their kits can also provide range. An elementalist has lots of flexible options for dealing with range or melee with their weapon sets.

When you lay that it out, it’s clear that the Rev only has FOUR major choices apart from their specialization lines: 1) weapon, 2) legend #1, 3) legend #2, and 4) gear. Everything else has already been decided for you. But their choices become even more limited because…

• Weapons too closely tied with particular legend styles: If the legend skills are inflexibile in terms of skills 6-10, then the weapons should probably be more flexible and independently defined from particular legends. As it stands the choices the Rev are faced with amount to which weapon set synergizes well between their two legends of choice. That may seem like a meaningful choice, but in such cases there is often a better choice with the rest being clearly subpar.

Rym.1469:

And I simply don’t believd that Revenant won’t get some choice in utilities for each legend. There will be, I tell you.

Right now I’m not seeing much evidence for that. The real lack of meaningful options for the Revenant will likely kill this profession for many vets.

Maybe the med kit should be redesigned to be more of a gun that drops marks with condi removal, boons, and some healing. Actually, it would be like the defensive/support version of the necro’s staff, but with the skill 1 being a basic attack with a heal effect.

They will have spear but NONE of their utility skills will work underwater.

I would say that the NPE is ruining the experience more than tomes of knowledge. Locking veteran players out of fundamental mechanics turns leveling into more of a laborious chore for vets than for many new players.

Thankfully, I doubt the death of Queen Jennah is happening anytime soon.

Randulf.7614:

Nothing has been debunked since Rev elite has not been announced.

No datamined material is considered accurate since so much has ended up being scrapped.. It might be true or it might not be. That is the best we can say at this stage

Thief might be getting staff, it might not
Has there been ranger confirmation of staff? If not same rule applies.
Rev might be getting shield, as normal or elite. It might not.

Is there an example of a non-elite spec profession gaining its own weapon skin? No. Four core specializations have been revealed for the Revenant, and we know that both Shiro and Glint remain for the datamined Rev specs. Only one of the two can be a core specialization. That_Shaman datamined a Glint-esque dragon shield alongside other ascended weapons that corresponded to revealed e-spec weapon skins. No need to play games here. What do you think the safe money bet would be for the Revenant spec weapon? Is that weapon type the same as another revealed e-spec unlocked weapon? If so, then it would disprove the theory that the unlocked weapon type will not be shared by another e-spec’s unlocked weapon type. Simple as that.

A OK.8276:

Weapon swaps and kits? Get those fingers warmed up!!

Assuming that thieves would keep weapon swap if they got kits…

So far there have been strong indications that the Dream is a means by which the Pale Tree protects her “children” from Mordremoth’s influence, hence why the Soundless are more susceptible to Mordremoth’s corruption. Malyck has no conception of the Dream. It’s likely that we will see Malyck again, albeit as a prominent servant of Mordremoth.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Well can’t argue with that point. Had they not flapped their beaks about not being P2P and that being a selling point…

If they had not flapped their beaks about not being P2P, they would not have as much business as they have now. Out of all the popular MMOs, GW2 was the only one designed from the ground-up to be B2P. A lot of people play this because it’s not P2P. I you want this game to be P2P, then I’m afraid you have set yourself up for disappointment in the grand delusion that P2P guarantees a stream of content.

Now we’re gonna see more stuff in gem store (that could’ve been ingame) to push their sales cause making new content costs and there’s not sub to solve the problem without nickling & diming. Meanwhile it’s arid desert in terms of new zones to explore till HoT drops, fortunatelly that’s right around the corner a.k.a. “when it’s ready”.

Siege of Orgrimmar says hello and wants to remind you that even when you have a P2P game, you can have over a year without new content.

I hate cash shops so much.

Here’s the thing about the GW2 cash shop. It’s not pay to win. There are many people who don’t use the cash shops at all. If you feel compelled to buy items in the cash shop, it’s due to your own lack of self-restraint.

gregor lightbringer.7143:

I haven’t read the many posts on this so bare with me if it’s repeated: I don’t think giving ranger-like skills to a hybrid melee class is a good idea. Though giving a bow does help about the range issue. I would be giving them both offensive and defensive melee skills or utilities to assist against dragons, but still keep the bow. Just my bief 2 cents.

If it was implemented well, it would be one thing, but I don’t think that the dragonhunter package synergizes well between the virtues, traps, the longbow skills, and our core specializations.

I may just wait for some hypothetical future guardian shortbow e-spec if I want a more viable ranged option.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

These die fast – B&S went F2P, same SWTOR, and that one is generally a cash grab, famous for putting manpower into cash shop and not new content.

That’s the beauty of P2P – kitten that will be forgiven in F2P or B2P will not slide with players there. Game has to be cared for and run honestly, else down it goes. There are no “whale players” no burst incomes save x-pac releases – devs gotta care and cater to players all the time, because the whip of unsubbing is constantly in player’s hands.

Such idealistic rubbish about the P2P model.

kittenty and poorly managed games will die hard and fast in P2P model.

WoW says hello.

SWTOR, WildStar, B&S (they were too greedy). But GW2 could thrive, and free itself from gem store shackles. But to each his own.

Yes, to each their own. And GW2’s own choose B2P as it was advertised and designed around.

Oh. And i’m sure a-net is not doing too HoT. Notice how much gemshop picked up recent time and all the hard marketing around pre-purchase. They need money and they need it now! Least that’s what their actions bespeak of.

You’re seeing things in your feeble attempt to form a conspiracy. These TP releases are as regular as usual with the same sort of items as have always been released. If these hot items are coming out with more frequency it’s probably because ArenaNet is learning what items sell better and making informed decisions around that. Nothing more than that.