Guild Wars 2

Conncept.7638:

Way to totally skip half of what was said just so you can be spend your moment in the spotlight as an aloof pretentious prick.

I am not sure how what I wrote warranted this harsh of a response. I am not obligated to respond to everything you write nor did I feel like it at the time – as I increasingly loathe wall-of-text discussions – so I ask you to respectfully not interpret my post as being dismissive or malicious in nature.

Conncept.7638:

As things are, this change really hasn’t even helped diversity at all, even on the livestream, once the developer got in to actual combat, how did he build? Ogden legend>Ogden trait line>Hammer//Shiro Legend>Shiro Trait Line>Swords. How much you want to bet that if he had gone Shiro and Ventari instead he would have been wielding a staff with the centaur trait line?

There was also more criticism of the hammer, so I suspect Roy was also trying to showcase the combat improvements to the hammer.

In reality what the class needs, regardless of whether it has a weapon swap or not, is customization which work toward the classes mechanics rather than those themes specific to each legend. That way there can be crossover, options, and synergy between legends, weapons, and traits rather than just four clear undiverging paths up the customization tree.

This is indeed beside the point of weapon swapping.

Conncept.7638:

It wasn’t needed, they could have designed the class with or without it just fine.

As the Revenant stood? Yeah. It needed some form of skill #1-5 variability.

And honestly, this hasn’t made that big of a difference and the class is still disappointing, so far as customization is concerned this rose the Revenants four build decisions up to… FIVE! I can hardly contain my excitement.

I certainly don’t think that the Revenant is close to done, as I agree that it needs more build variability via its trait design and utility options. Weapon skill flexibility was simply one of the issues.

Relshdan.6854:

Kidel.2057:

As guardian. So?

this.

for 2+ yrs Guardian scepter was so slow it was practically unusable. its slightly better now for pve, but still unusable against human opponents.

Yeah, scepter is mainly used against bosses with huge hit boxes.

Manuhell.2759:

Engineer’s class mechanic isn’t the kits, though – it is the toolbelt – a bar of toned down utilities. Essentially more utilities in exchange of less weapon skills. Sure, there are kits, but they’re optional – and paid with utility slots.

Whereas revenants get an additional bar of normal ones on swap. And now even a second weapon set. All for free.

They’ve just thrown the design of the engineer under the bus, basically. Not that i’m surprised – they have to find some way to sell the expansion to people, after all.

I’m not following you or agree for that matter. If our toolbelt skills are our profession mechanics, how exactly then is that mechanic or flavor being thrown under the bus by Revenants getting weapon swapping with their pre-existing utility swapping?

Sure our kits are optional, but most engineer builds revolve around or incorporate kits. The reason why we even have toolbelt skills are our profession mechanic is because we would otherwise lose utilities by equipping kits. Fact of the matter is that ArenaNet assumes that we will be using kits. Kits and toolbelt skills work hand-in-hand in the assumptions about our profession and how it is designed to optimally function.

We can swap kits quicker than elementalists can swap attunements. We kit dance all the time. It’s how we frequently generate our combos and a number of our damage rotations. E.g. Flamethrower cast Napalm + Flame Blast + Detonate Flame Blast → Elixir Gun cast Acid Bomb → Flamethrower Juggernaut to generate Might stacks.

I keep four kits on my main engineer: grenade (main dps kit), elixir (utility support + stun break), tool (blocks, melee, projective finisher), and mortar (fields, long range, blast finisher). I use my kits as I would weapon skills.

Kits are often our main weapons even more so than the actual equipped weapon itself. Our toolbelt skills, while weaker than regular utilities, still often have a lot of functionality on a relatively smaller cooldown, whether providing fields (water and fire!), finishers (projectile, blast), big damage, knockbacks, condition removal, stun breaks, etc. Heck. There are players who would equip certain kits for the toolbelt skill alone. Elixir kit anyone?

I can tell you as a player with two level 80 Engineers that I don’t feel that the Revenant is stepping on my toes, even with the addition of weapon swap. The Revenant still looks as if it has far less flexibility and customization than my Engineers. Revenants cannot choose how many legends they want; they are stuck with two. As a Revenant, I’ll have my two equipped weapons and swappable legend utilities, which will be twenty skills. As an Engineer, I can have four kits, my equipped weapon, and my toolbelt skills. How would you like to count that? Twenty five skills and loose change?

lighter.2708:

guardian has two…just saying..

It’s essentially scepter, unless you are counting trident. Staff plays less as a “weapon” and more of a secondary weapon supplement used for map roaming, support, and PvE mob spam-tagging.

lighter.2708:

..so revenant only has 1 ranged weapon?….
no mid range weapon or one hand range weapon?,,,,

Welcome to the life of the pre-elite specialization guardian.

Rozbuska.5263:

So Revenant should fill that heavy profession gap with mid HP pool and no weapon swap. It was all reasonable until devs ideas was washed out by river of tears.

So I expect now weapon swap to eles and engis aswell. Its all just about crying enough.

It was all reasonable until you realized that swapping uncustomizable utilities was nothing like swapping weapon kits and attunements.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

I honestly don’t think so, the only class it currently wrecks is an engineer using Grenades.

At least in WvW. Now that mortar has at least the range of old traited grenades and the fields of bombs, I’ve noticed a lot of engineers in WvW use mortar over grenades to reduce the retaliated damage, thus freeing up utilities for other kits or skills.

Xenon.4537:

That is just depressing. If this is how humans think, I’m ashamed to be one.

You don’t need to reinvent the wheel every time you design a new car. You should be honest with yourself. You are more upset that they did not use your solution and what you think would have been more creative rather than any of this hoopla you are storming up about creativity.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

I got a good laugh at the title. Glad you are looking forward too it.

The Revenant still needs work, but it’s comforting to know that you are listening or see similar issues through your own playtesting.

Xenon.4537:

Good job guys. You complained and begged for an unimaginative solution, and you got it. Now the class is doomed to be boring as all hell. There were plenty of way better ideas than duct-taping default weapon swap to the class.

Sometimes the best and most practical fixes to problems are not the most imaginative ones nor should they be.

Stephane Lo Presti.7258:

Hi there,

Reaper in French can be translated in many ways The French-speaking members at ArenaNet and NCSOFT went through a few discussions about which translation was more appropriate, but it was complicated by certain factors (e.g., terms that were already used). You can read a bit more about that on the French forums here: https://forum-fr.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/loc/Le-nom-des-sp-cialisations-d-lite-de-HoT/first#post254154

A bientôt !

If only the dragonhunter could now get a rename in English…

thewaterguy.4796:

YAY THEY KILLED EVERY OTHER CLASS

Ok Ok in all seriousness, I dunno how I feel about this… On one hand yeah I guess it’s cool that rev gets weapon swap, but I am concerned that they have given people no reason to play the other classes now…

How does Revenant weapon swapping kill the other classes? The reason to play a Revenant over other classes will boil down more to their playstyles and group utility in WvW/sPvP/Dungeons/Fractals rather than simply their ability to weapon and utility swap.

stof.9341:

In PvE, most classes use weapon swap for having extra cooldowns, not as a convenience swap between melee and ranged :o

True, but could you imagine the mesmer being stuck in greatsword? (Mind you, it does feel that way with mesmer noobs at time in PvE already.)

Loex.5104:

its the easiest alternative to solve the problem – the most ideas of the comminutiy would also have worked though (but woud all take way more effort to implement)

Oh, I know. I’m thrilled by this development. Weapon-swapping down, now onward as we debate the traits and utility inflexibility!

But what about all those poor people who claimed that weapon swap is not needed for the Revenant, have proposed overly-complicated weapon-swap alternatives, or have threatened to cancel their pre-orders if Revenant gets it?

skowcia.8257:

Uhm yeah i um..know? Its even easier to do so in open world. For example teq? Phase 1 use hammer. Phase 2 switch to melee. There are more than enough opportunities to do so – im not even sure if it worth swapping to melee set considering the hitboxes actually.

Then clearly no class needs weapon swapping. If it’s that easy, should we not consider getting rid of weapon swap entirely?

Killyox.3950:

They already said they don’t want tablet to feel like a pet with following.

So it instead becomes the Revenant’s “Rock of Sisyphus”?

skowcia.8257:

I guess you wasnt watching stream at all.

Roy described the hammer as a brawler weapon. That’s it, but not the Revenant on the whole. Try again.

Lets also not forget everything rev has so far is mostly melee and anti range with a good reason.

Even the Guardian, which “is mostly melee and anti range with a good reason” has weapon swap.

The fact that you also comparing a whole utility swap to a professions mechanic which cause an effect is laughable as well.

You unsurprisingly misunderstand me. The point is that pressing F1-4 while having weapon swap on the “~” key is not challenging or that revolutionary. So what if F1 changes legends and ~ swaps weapons. Is that really hard for you to grasp or imagine? How would that be complicated? It’s an extra button.

By giving them weapon swap you also have to rework every weapon set. Rev has low cd’s on wep skills as a compensation for lack of weapon swap. Something you dindt know about probably. Thats how they balanced it around.

And unlike your “general utiltiies” idea f2 would provide a new 5 weapons skills coming out in a bundle as well. But actually outside of some useless/weak/outdated traits, underpowered utilities i think revenant is fine as it is. Why f2? To not force people to pick an utility like engi kits. But then again i am up for my solution for legends to modify a bit wep skills.

So by rework you mean adjusting cooldowns and energy costs? Thank the Six we are in beta then, because now is a great time for a rework. And it’s the sort of rework they would have to do anyway once it goes to release, since other professions receive such reworks all the time surrounding cooldowns, damage, effects, and skill costs. But your F2 idea would require an all new crazy layer of rework that would be far more absurd than my suggestions.

You also have to make 2nd weapon for underwater as you cant give olny 1 set underwater for a profession with weapon swap. Spear actually inst even finished yet btw and you asking for 2nd set.

Yes. Much like how you are asking about an F2 that alters all the weapon skills. But when you do the math, weapon swap and another underwater weapon would come out as requiring less work than your F2 weapon skill idea.

Why do you even asking for ranged option either way? Its something i still dont understand at all.

For range. It’s why the slow, melee and armor-heavy Guardians have scepter. It’s why Guardians will equip scepters in a number of dungeon/fractal/boss encounters. It’s why Guardians are also getting the Longbow.

Kidel.2057:

Ventari stance is the one that needs most rework. Its concept is cool, but the micromanaging is not micro at all. It’s a full time job with a very low pay.

Auto summon? Yes. Resummon only when destroyed.
Auto follow? Maybe. I suggested it too in another thread, but many did not agree.
Insta cast on commands? YES PLEASE. Doesn’t make sense that we are locked while using them.
A buff on some tablet skills? Of course. The healing output seems too low or forces you to spec a lot on healing power, meaning it’s useless on balanced builds. It should be at least good on a celestial build and awesome on a full healer build.

We should be able to actually do something while micromanaging the tablet.

Even the Pale Tree tied up her copy of Ventari’s Tablet in vines just so she didn’t have to keep moving it everywhere.

skowcia.8257:

Already preorder and if they get weapon swap i will ask for a refund due to false advertising as revenant was the main reason why i bought HoT. I dont care about pve, not even a bit, and dragonhunter definitely doesnt justice 45e cost for me. Unlike many people here i been following news about revenant since january collecting scraps of datamined stuff and have seen it desing flaws back in the first beta while everyone else was screaming “revenant is op, rip everything else”.

Don’t give us that nonsense as if you are the only person here who has been following Revenant news and updates. People voiced non-OP criticism then, but people kept telling naysayers, “It’s not finished yet. Just wait. Just wait.” So we waited. We played. We voiced similar criticisms. But we were told, “It’s just the celestial gear. Just wait. Just wait.” So we waited. And with three of the four core legends out and a beta weekend with enough pre-purchasing people playing with berserker gear and finally getting a Revenant sub-forum, you should not be surprised at the wave of criticism coming now.

Lets also not forget that revenant is descripted as a brawler profession. Hes pretty much melee oriented like he was supposed to be. Ranged hammer is here in fact olny for a reason that some pve contest require ranged skills, and in this case all you have to do is equip it and bash stuff. Now its on dev head to give revenant a proper sustain so that they can survive in melee without any issues if you know how to play.

Go back and re-read those articles. Since you’ve been following so diligently and all-knowingly since January, I’m sure you know precisely those articles. The Revenant was NEVER described as a brawler profession. Only the Jalis Legend was described as a “brawler.” Polygon:

When a revenant calls on the power of Jalis, they’ll be transforming into what Cronacher calls a “dwarf brawler kind of playstyle.”

But the Revenant on the whole? Never called a ‘brawler’ profession. I’m sorry that it took this many months of you following profession developments and such for that misconception to be cleared up for you.

And how it would play anyway? Press ~ to swap wepaon, press f1 to swap legend?

Presumably, yes. The Revenant would not be the only profession with a ~ weapon swap and F1-4 keys: Guardian, Mesmer, Necromancer, Ranger, and Thief.

If you desing an f2 key to alter your weapon skills based on legend thats additional 10 skills. Kinda like double death shroud.
The olny feature that wasnt fully decided yet was utilities set in stone.

And you thought that my idea of a new non-legendary general utility skill category would be a balance to nightmare? HA! Having F2 alter weapon skills makes my idea look like an easy-win cake walk.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Underwater combat? Yes.

I suppose the question is not whether it will happen, but what will it be like for those whose specs and legend utilities will possibly be ineffective underwater. Underwater centaurs and stone tablets?

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Or just get rid of it altogether.

The spirit weapon you have to micro-manage with the same uselessness as spirit weapons.

Astralporing.1957:

Genesis.8572:

Revenant was sold as a class that changes utility skills, not weapon skills. Without weapon swap.

It was also said right out that many of those features are not yet decided fully, and may be changed if devs decide that class needs them.

I didn’t say that; skowcia did.

Ah, yes. Underwater combat. The bane of many utilities and elites in this game. It will indeed be interesting to see how ArenaNet dig themselves out of this hole when there are five sets of uncustomizable utilities and elites surrounding the Revenant.

skowcia.8257:

Um yeah..and what stops them from developing f2 mist weapon which would replace your 1-5 weapon skills? F2 key per legend and we are looking at 25 skills in combat..if thats your problem.

I see that some people trying to push so hard for weapon swap as they want to desing revenant to themself. Like i said in another thread, if you dont like it dont play it then. There are 8 different classes.

Revenant was sold as a class that changes utility skills, not weapon skills. Without weapon swap. And we knew about it since..january. If you cant handle it, dont play it and pick up something else. Inst that simple?

And if they get weapon swap? What then? Will you not buy the product since it’s not as it was initially sold?

Astralporing.1957:

Genesis.8572:

The Revenant needs another weapon or two (and not just a shield from the elite spec) to give them a little more variety, especially given how one of the biggest criticisms of the Revenant stems from how married weapon sets are with legends.

Not without having a weapon swap ability of some kind. If any such new weapon would be more usable with all existing legends, instead of just one, it would become a must-use, making others superfluous (alternatively it might be so weak to be useless).

And I agree with that.

Kidel.2057:

That doesn’t seem the case however. To me the problem with Revenant traits is that they don’t do much.

That too. I’m sure Roy has heard.

I’m just worried that builds will be mostly reduced to Shiro + Invocation + Other or Two Legends + Invocation. It would be nice to see a reason for people picking up three non-Invocation trait lines.

Rising Dusk.2408:

A lot of forum specialists have heard the public’s cry for a weapon swap on Revenant and we’ve passed that along to the development team. I can’t promise they’ll add one, but I will say that in principle I agree with the premise; the Revenant needs the added customization and adaptation mid-combat that a weapon swap provides.

Good to hear it. Thank you for listening.

skowcia.8257:

Weapon swap is not the answer. They can adapt by other means than weapon swap. If engi and ele could do fine without weapon swap for 3 years, why revenant would end up as exception?

KITS AND ATTUNEMENTS THAT CHANGE SKILLS #1-5. THAT’S HOW.

Kidel.2057:

Got no problem with traits focused on a legend. That’s the whole point of specializing into something.

Yes, but at the same time you want trait lines to be broad and synergistic enough to encourage build diversity. If Revenant trait lines are hyper-focused into particular legends, playstyles, and weapons, then that will likely reduce the amount of build diversity.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Weapon swap isn’t needed.

Is that your mantra? Revenants are fine apart from damage? No weapon swap is needed? Traits are fine? All is well? Exactly how much Kool-Aid have you imbibed at this point?

Being locked in range is less of an issue than being locked in melee, as per the Revenant apart from the hammer.

An Elementalist may be locked into range in staff, but their staff’s damage is not dependent on distance with the target. The Revenant hammer is. But the Elementalist also has their 1-5 skills affected and altered by their four attunements. An Elementalist “range-locked” into D/D still has more range on their skills than a Revenant locked into staff, mace/axe, and likely sword/sword.

An Engineer does not have weapon swap, but their unswappable weapons are ranged. Rifle provides a ranged autoattack, but they also have general skills on that weapon that allow them to fight in semi-melee range or kite at range: a melee-ranged bleed, a leap, a knockback, and a immobilizing net. Apart from that, the engineer’s unswappable weapon is not the end of the discussion, because they have kits of various ranges that replace their 1-5 skills. Tool Kit and Bombs give them melee. Flamethrower provides semi-melee range. Grenade and Elixir Gun give 900 range. And now the Mortar gives them 1500 range.

The Elementalist and Engineer do not have weapon swap, but they have means to alter their #1-5 skills to address those range deficiencies. They don’t get weapon swap because their #1-5 weapon skills are not limited to the usual ten skills, as per weapon swap, but often have somewhere along the magnitude of TWENTY weapon skills.

The justification for the Revenant’s lack of weapon swap seems to awkwardly glued to the fact the Revenant changes its #6-10 skills and not its #1-5 weapon skills. But those skills – as I am sure you are quick to notice – are not weapon skills, which are what the Elementalist and Engineer change, but utility skills. And utility skills are not meant for addressing issues of weapon-swapping, but in a profession’s general utility. Ergo, the issue of weapon swapping does not affect Engineers and Elementalists in the same manner as it does the Revenant. The lack of weapon-swapping adversely affects the Revenant far more than it does either the Engineer or Elementalist.

Spitzilla.4193:

For elite spec Revenant will get either new set of “onehand + offhand” or new “two hand weapon”.

Only a shield.

There is no need for more weapons, anyway we can have only one weapon equipped in combat so …

They also should get weapon swap.

As they are changing profession specific ability (virtues have new effect, necro has new shroud), I wonder what will change with F1 Revenant ability.

Revenant E-Spec F1: Delete Character

skowcia.8257:

Ele doesnt have weapon swap. Engi doesnt have weapon swap. Why people assume that revenant needs one? There may be other solutions than weapon swap ya know?

But it doesnt matter as revenant wont get weapon swap either way. And let it stay this way.

Stop using elementalists and engineers! It’s not the same! And their “melee” weapons have more range than the revenant’s melee weapons.

The Revenant needs another weapon or two (and not just a shield from the elite spec) to give them a little more variety, especially given how one of the biggest criticisms of the Revenant stems from how married weapon sets are with legends.

Jermoe Morrow.9501:

Only problems: Galina Edgecrusher and Snarl Backdraft appear out of nowhere in “Estate of Unrest”. The post Zhaitan killing party also includeds like…every npc in game that doesn’t die. Is it possible to actually see them all in one story?

Impossible. Although Galina Edgecrusher is Blood Legion and Snarl Backdraft is Ash Legion, they first appear in the Charr Iron Legion personal story and then later in the Vigil story. My own charr engineer (Iron Legion and Vigil) was kinda lucky that his choices allowed him to stumble into all of the Galina/Snarl missions.

If you want to know who these NPCs are, you kinda have to play all the variant missions. (Or you can just read about them on the wiki.) But obviously one character can’t play everything and sometimes you have to make hard choices for your character.

Xenon.4537:

Edit/Followup:

Currently as I see it, if Revenant build systems and skill balance isn’t significantly changed, Every Revenant in PvE will run roughly the same build:

• Take Shiro (the dps spec)
• Take Invocation for fury, stun break, and faster swap
• Take Glint (elite spec) for whatever it does, OR take Mallyx for some condition damage.

They might take Jalis over Glint/Mallyx for some defense, but given the nature of PvE, Shiro and Invocation will be required no matter what. Unless of course HoT requires pure tanks and healers…

This lack of fundamental build diversity in the traits is what I see as one of the glaring design flaws of the Revenant, and I too am worried that Revenants will mostly be running Shiro/Invocation + Other.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Personally, I’d rather Revenant stick to a mode/stance rather than a rotation. I hate the way D/D Elems have to rotate their attunements to be effective as it is. Another class doing that wouldn’t be that fun either.

It’s less of a deal, if not absolutely required, for the engineer – particularly for generating fields and finishers – but their kits are hardly on a cooldown. I would not mind if the revenant did more legendary dancing that produced a more dynamic playstyle than we currently have for the revenant.

We may have to simply agree to disagree at this point, as I doubt our differences on this issue will be resolved, as they involve irreconcilable understandings and visions for the profession. (Upon re-reading, I also don’t think you have much of a grasp of what my proposal entails.)

Balance is not so easy as it looks like. Its a complex thing. But you probably wont understand that as for you its nothing else but some new shinies you can add in.

But next time you should try being a little less condescendingly rude.

Jaxom.7310:

would it be cool if we had a GM trait that changed symbols from light fields to fire or water?

That would be much better for Symbolic Avenger. A real game-changer of a GM trait, especially since it would do wonders for the Hammer Guard with the Mighty Blow blast finisher.

skowcia.8257:

My argument is that beats the purpose of channeling legends to lend their powers.

Your “general” utilities are against the core desing of revenant. At this point why not make all of these general skills?

You are also are drawing upon the energies of the mists as a Revenant, and that’s still part of the idea behind the general utilities. Possibly only one skill per legend bar would be replaced by a general one. But if people replace all of their legend utilities with general utilities, that suggests that something is flawed about the design of the legend utilities. Just something to keep in mind.

Its like “hey i am ele and i just attuned to water but i will use fire skills instead, cus why not? I can control all elements anyway”.

Not equivalent because the elementalist unlike the revenant has control over their utilities which mostly serve a different function than their weapon skills.

And balancing being easier around themed skills in one package rather than some random stuff+legend utilities, is not a opinion, but a fact.

Not really, because this is how all other utility skills in the game work. The skills should simply be balanced regardless of the bundle they come in.

Critics: “This game may have too many particle effects.”

ANet: “What’s that? You want more particle effects?! Done! Here’s the Revenant!”

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Having general utilities sort of defeats the purpose of switching Legends, doesn’kitten I can see asking for more utilities for each Legend though.

Not inherently, no. I see general utilities serving the function of broad mist-oriented skills and techniques that Revenants learn in their training. The sort of skills that honestly the Revenant currently lacks but also doesn’t require that the Revenant cut themselves out of must-have utilities because of their legend choices. It’s being able to pick a utility that represents your revenant training regardless of which legend you are channeling.

skowcia.8257:

I hope not. I want to keep themed utility skills attached to legends instead of castting some random stuff. Thats what makes revenant unique. Also all icons on your bar fits perfectly!

That’s a shallow argument of aesthetic and not of practicality.

Why “illusory” choices? It will indeed add more builds options and you cant deny that.

And why it would be easier? Bc you said so? It actually makes it harder for devs as they have balance these general utilities with legend theme ones. You can make legend utilities fit each other, with general utilities just you throw some random junk which wont fit anything.

You can’t deny that general utilities would also add more Revenant build options, but clearly your solution would be easier just because you say so, skowcia, since you build imaginary stumbling blocks around my proposal.

Foefaller.1082:

Genesis.8572:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Keep the awesome feedback and ideas coming! There will be quite a few balance changes, among other things, to the Revenant profession the next time you all play it.

Any thought to general revenant utility skills that we can use to replace the legend utilities on our bar?

Personally I won’t want “general” revenant utilities, but rather more options per legend to customize our utility bar(s) to better suit our weapon of choice. I like the uniqueness of Legend/Utility swapping, and general choices would kinda dilute what it means to say, pick Jalis over Shiro.

Adding more options per legend can become illusory choices if it requires certain legends or trait lines for required utilities: e.g., stun breaks, gap closers, or condition removal. It would be easier to add general utilities to the Revenant rather than having the devs create more legend-themed utilities that are all style and no substance.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Keep the awesome feedback and ideas coming! There will be quite a few balance changes, among other things, to the Revenant profession the next time you all play it.

Any thought to general revenant utility skills that we can use to replace the legend utilities on our bar?

I’m glad you like the idea. Mist Weaving was simply a sample name for these general revenant utility skills.

Ellsy.6780:

Traits/Utilities:

Now, I know that this is a new class. So, we’re not going to have the idea behind it that we’ve “now combined certain traits because we’ve learned to use our “magic” better” idea. But, I’d like to see better synergy with these traits. Many of them feel weak and out of place for what we’re getting. With other classes, you have the option of mixing a few utilities in there that are from different lines… like a shout here, a signet there, and a stance there, etc. Well, with a revenant, you don’t have that. So, it would make more sense to not only add more utilities per legend, but to also make sure that our traits (since we’re a bit stuck) not only reflect the playstyle/utilities that we’re locked into, but add greater benefit than what they do now.

Instead of adding new utilities per legend, I had proposed adding a Mistweaving line of general revenant utility skills that are non-legend specific and could be swapped into any given legend utility bar. And these general utilities could be tied into the Invocation line.

AzureSky.3175:

If Revenant should really only have 5 skills per legend, you’d end up with 12 utility skills, 4 heals and 4 elites in total for all 4 legends. The other classes all have about 4 heals, 3 elites and 20 utilities, so it seems likely that 2 additional utility skills per legend will be added for balance reasons.
I guess the chances for some extra variety are pretty high here.
And if Anet really sticks to their no-weapon-swap decision, and does not want to add variety to the weapons, I can only hope that they’ll fix the problems by adding ‘kits’…
I’d still prefer weapon swap or ‘attunements’

As I posted elsewhere, it may be be easier if ArenaNet added a new utility skill category for Revenant that allowed players to swap out any legend’s utility skill with one of these general Revenant utility skills.