To add to all of this, they said they would be giving thieves “boon hate” which will make us do more damage the more boons are on our target.
Actually, that was a warrior thing. Never mentioned the thief once when talking about “boon hate.” With all the burst damage and movement he gets, I’d be surprised if he even got anything remotely close to that mechanic.
I don’t think you were listening properly. He said, at great length, how they were going to give thieves some form of boon removal or boon “hate” so that they could take down Bunker builds more effectively than other classes, allowing them to take on more of their intended role of striking down key targets. Only after discussing this for thieves for a while did he very casually mention that warriors would likely get something similar.
So this means the fall damage trait will basically be an automatic Revealed debuff any time you fall very far.
Last Refuge will also become an even more thorough death sentence than it already is.
Prioritizing a bug fix that doesn’t actually affect the TP usage at all over any fix in the game that does affect players would be irresponsible.
Wha… you realize, that by that logic smaller bugs in the game will literally NEVER get fixed? There will ALWAYS be bigger problems, because even as you fix them you’ll just add new ones with updates.
Surely the difficulty in fixing a problem should be at least as important as the severity of the problem, and I can’t imagine this is a difficult fix.
And if you never fix smaller problems, they’ll keep piling up over time until you have a very, very big issue.
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So people are blocked from selling things on the TP for less than their base value from an NPC, which is good I guess since it prevents people from making mistakes.
But why are people allowed to make offers that are less than this amount? Unless I’m missing something no one would be in any way capable of accepting that offer, so the person is never going to actually get the item.
It’s annoying to try to sell a bunch of junk and see half the offers on there be blocked out for being too low, since they may as well not even be there.
Especially when it’s near the base amount, since you can waste a bunch of time trying to accept offers only to get the ridiculous message that they’re all too low.
On top of that, the minimum doesn’t seem to take sale fees into account, so people can still be tricked by the system itself into selling something for less than it’s base value.
I know, it’s like they don’t like money.
There are SO MANY examples out there of how much money cash shop character outfits make.
And then when they do release something it’s usually just town clothes, which no one ever uses.
I like the hoodies, but I’m pretty disappointed that they’re useless town clothes. I have seriously never even seen someone wearing town clothes. Only time was when a few people had the mad king/phantom stuff during halloween, and even then it was just for the costume brawls.
They need to make them work like in GW1, where you can use them anywhere except in PvP. I personally wouldn’t even care if they worked there, but I know others would.
Or more simply, just make it so kits and turrets went on the toolbelt bar. The engineers were stuck with a SPECTACULARLY shortsighted design.
We could have had legitimate utility skills to replace those instead of all the toolbelt alternative skills, and in turn any of those could easily have included an electric field.
Yeah, but you’re forgetting it has a massive 3 minute cooldown, only as much healing as a regular heal skill, and the couple turrets die easy as hell.
Sometimes, that’s all you need. Sometimes you need an extra stun to keep that guy from running away in wvw. Sometimes you need a quick heal when your heal skill and elixer small is in cd. Sometimes, you need the boss to target the turrets giving you that precious 3-5 seconds (slow mob attack ftw) until you can do what you need to do.
You’re not comparing it against anything though. Compared to most other elites, it’s bad.
For the effect, it could easily have a 60-90 second recharge.
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Yeah, but you’re forgetting it has a massive 3 minute cooldown, only as much healing as a regular heal skill, and the couple turrets die easy as hell.
nobody who matters cares.
btw give option to HIDE it.
I care alot and i matter.
BTW i mean the kit backpacks incase someone didn’t get it..
you got me wrong, u said yourself that nobody cares that this is post #20943055 on this topic.
and i’m not sure if they would ever listen to anything we want anyway. A.N.L.F.C.S. (Arena Net’s Least Favourite Class Syndrome) ftl.
…Is it just coincidence that acronym sounds like a reference to sodomy?
I like pretty much every suggestion you’ve made. Another minor thing I’d like to see is for the rifle’s #1 attack to have a more useful effect than just piercing, and to have the Coated Bullets trait also work with rifles.
Fear goes through Stability.
No, condition damage is hands down the best way to go while leveling with anyone. The reason is that condition damage ignores level differences, so you can kill enemies far higher level than yourself and burn through content much more quickly. In condition builds I can easily do events and missions 5 or more levels above me.
The damage will also continue to burn enemies up after you’ve been downed, allowing you to easily rally and avoid dying.
Fear not, the next patch will bring another half-baked change making all the popular builds even clunkier and more annoying to use. A couple more of those and you won’t have to worry about Engineers again, due to extinction.
You mean a couple months from now? At least there’s plenty of time to prepare ourselves for it.
I really like the idea at least of seeing your sheathed weapon when using a kit instead of the stupid pack.
Predator used to be very interesting for an engineer, because I think it would turn grenades and such into balls of energy and was very unique.
Not anymore though, as far as I know.
The Incinerator would be perfect, if engineers could use daggers.
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Use Throw Mine; Stability is gone.
Though I don’t know if it removes the Stability before or after attempting to knock them back. It should be before, but a lot of things don’t work as they should.
…I suppose it might also remove a different boon if they have more than one.
Wait, I assumed that just meant 100 down would be just like 100 forward, say if you’re shooting off a cliff.
But you’re making it sound more like they double up. So if you shot up a hill that’s 1000 up and 1000 forward it’d register as 2000 instead of just 1000 like it should.
I absolutely love the concept as is; it’s a portable siege engine that wreaks absolute hell on groups of people on top of working great over long range.
The only problem is with the actual numbers including many, many bugs.
I did once kill quite a few people with it, though in hindsight is was likely mostly the Caltrops.
It was in an SPvP map; both teams were being idiots and just skirmishing en mass in the center. I got up on a ledge overlooking their little arena and started raining death.
I must’ve gotten at least several kills before they caught on and a thief took me out.
Just saying, it was really fun while it lasted.
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I don’t care how they do it, personally. I would just really like to not have those packs.
I think the bomb kit would be a lot more awesome if they upped the power, recharge and fuse timer.
They’d be more powerful, but you’d place them less often and have to place them strategically to either lure people into them or use them to pressure someone away.
You could place it in a crowd and watch them scatter away from it, or root someone next to it and watch the pain.
I would’ve liked to see a lot more electricity in place of all the glue and ice and other campy weirdness.
Explosions are awesome though. Don’t touch my mine!
One clear issue is the inability to move them around coupled with long cooldowns.
On one hand, because they’re so freakin’ fragile I don’t think they even need long cooldowns.
But assuming the devs want it that way and would rather make them just not die so easily, I think a good way to repair the massive immobility issue would be to make it so that, when you pick them up, one of two things happens. I don’t know which would be easier/better.
Either you could just ACTUALLY pick it up like a bundle and move it somewhere else, or they could make it so that the cooldown is reduced by the percent of health remaining on it.
Full health, no cooldown. Half health, half cooldown etc.
They SHOULD work together. Self knockdowns are terrible enough without arbitrarily removing any little benefits that might be tied to it.
The Engineer has some big problems with their unique class mechanics.
The main class defining traits are the kits and turrets. The toolbelt I would say is only there as a side result of these. The developers, for whatever reason, decided to make the class defining kits and turrets normal utilities. The toolbelt mostly just compensates for the loss of a utility slot to these by adding an additional skill.
They likely work for normal utilities as well just to avoid pressuring players into choosing ONLY kits and turrets.
The big problem with this is that you are not required to have kits or turrets. Because they’re a choice they can’t be superior to other options, but by refusing to be superior you also have no clear incentive to pick up these CLASS DEFINING MECHANICS.
But whether you pick them or not, you suffer penalties in exchange, like not being able to swap to a secondary weapon and only having a choice of three weapon types, one of which can only go in the off-hand and therefore only has two associated skills.
I can see someone arguing that the four extra toolbelt skills compensate for the lack of weapon skills, but consider this; other classes get extra skills in this area AND a secondary weapon plus greater weapon variety.
So here is my proposal.
Make the toolbelt skills customizable much like normal utility slots. Two or three of the slots are reserved for either a kit or a turret, and the other one or two allow a choice of any of the four available toolbelt skills based on your utilities.
Kits and turrets would then ONLY be able to go on the toolbelt.
When a kit or turret is currently active, the toolbelt slot gets replaced with the associated current toolbelt skill, like Bandage for the Med Kit.
This would ensure that all Engineers have some combination of kits or turrets, and therefore access to their class defining traits. It would also prevent them from wasting utility slots on these just like every other class is able.
These mechanics, and the class as a whole, would also be much easier to balance since they are not only assured to have them, but they are also limited from being able to load up every single slot with them.
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It seems a bit over the top for a Thief to be able to Finish off someone in WvW/PvP while stealthed, so no one can do anything about it. I’ve done my fair share of doing this in PvP as a Thief. Both on giving it and receiving this tactic. But as of lately I feel like it just isn’t right.
You’ve been doing your fair share of PvP as a thief and you still believe they can’t be hurt while in stealth? There’s something odd about your post.
His point is that the Downed player have no way of interacting/Prolonging the finish.
And YOU are completely ignoring the fact that all those other stomp aiding abilities do the same kitten thing.
And you know, Mesmers can also stealth. In fact, they can stealth while they have a bunch of clones up so you don’t even KNOW that they stealthed. Yet here you are, on the Thief complaint bandwagon.
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Ooooh… I wouldn’t really call the gameplay “braindead”, but there really is a lot of “spam two buttons” because of Initiative. A lot.
If you want a combination of mobility and diverse ability usage I would go with a Ranger or possibly an Elementalist.
And to your other two questions, thieves have spectacularly bad defense, some of the worst in the game, but clever usage of stealth helps mitigate that. You can solo effectively enough, mostly through careful usage of dodges, stealths and blindness. This makes it more difficult to accomplish than for many other classes, but not necessarily any less effective.
And, simply put, thieves have very little in the way of group support focused builds. The best you can manage is a build focused around Venomous Aura, which is fairly mediocre.
I was wondering how you think they will eventually nerf the dagger/pistol infinite stealth build that is now becoming a raging fotm?
I was trying to think of how they would do it, my only thought was to make it so finishers never trigger if nothing is hit. Would that mess up other aspects of the game though I wonder?
Other thoughts?
Pff, when? They’ve dropped down to like one balance patch a month, and even those only contain mild tweaks. Regardless of their plans, you have all the time in the world to enjoy it.
http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-11/art/gw2-sniper.jpg
There it is. I don’t know if that’s an official piece of art, but it was definitely made for Guild Wars 2.
Apparently before they scrapped the fabled Marksman/Sniper class.
If you all are trying to thwart my suggestion by saying that off-hand dagger is 100% necessary to do anything and that the entire class is balanced around the assumption that you’ll be using it, then I think we all have larger issues here.
Personally, I think the best compromise might be to remove stealth from Cloak and Dagger so you just can’t spam the crap out of stealth whenever you feel like it, but up the Thief’s health to middle range like the Ranger and Engineer. Maybe even trade places with the Mesmer in that regard since they’re WAY harder to catch and hit than a Thief even now.
I wonder if there’s a word for that bizarre kind of massive vicarious narcissism, where one person believes another is completely infallible.
News flash for you, this game was made by human beings, and humans make mistakes. Constantly.
We are looking into this. I actually think P/P has a lot of utility. Blind field, daze, vuln stacking. However damage is a bit low. We are making some headway here in the12/14 build so be patient for one more week.
Jon
Oh no, you did NOT just say Body Shot was a good skill >_<
ROFL, look at the combat log!
Not only is he a glass-cannon Hundred Blades Warrior, but I’m pretty sure he killed the Thief after taking the full brunt of that burst XD
…And he’s the one here complaining about the Thief. I don’t think this is even a serious post.
It happens when you’re downed on any kind of a hill. The pet has to be literally ON you for the skill to work properly, and a hill will cause them to stop with you either slightly higher or lower than them and therefore out of their range.
Actually, as long as we’re listing Thief guides, my guild site is starting to collect a good amount of helpful information in the forum section. I even have a detailed stat guide that would be pretty helpful here;
http://blackwolfbrotherhood.enjin.com/
Wasn’t this patch ALSO supposed to be loaded with Ranger fixes? This would be like the 3rd time in a row they’ve failed to deliver on that “next time” crap.
i would not combine too much cond damage with precision
Exactly. That combination is garbage.
If you want to pair direct damage with condition damage you take Power.
No longer steals boons, but a high damage aoe attack. (What we need for PvE.)
Spin-Blur in place and swing your sword and dagger around, You can move while spinning.
¾ Channel Time.
Damage (6x): 1,051
Combo Finisher: Whirl (100%.)
Range: 450You evade attacks while channeling.
(you can use the old animation a little bit for this too, just make it like a blur dance.)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator's_Strike should have the boon removal added to it, it is NOT spammable, after you use it, you get http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Return, so its not like heartseeker where I can just pay 3 int over/over to strip boons, I can only strip one boon every 10 seconds or pay 8 initative (A LOT) to strip another boon, aka not worth it.
…Put a pistol in the off-hand.
Your wish has been granted.
The initiative system IS a cooldown system—just a “bigger picture” version.
Think about it: Whereas other classes have cool downs on individual skills (meaning there will always be skills coming off of CD’s for use), the thief has a cool down on all skills at the same time. If a thief burns through his initiative completely, he’s a sitting duck and can’t use ANY weapon skills. If any other class burns through his CD’s on one set, he can swap and use the other weapon set. Thief can swap all he wants, but once his initiative’s gone it’s pointless.
What seems to be disturbing people are thieves that know how to manage their massive CD. It’s a bigger weakness that can be (and is) a bigger strength when managed properly.
Kinda like P/D thief where most of the damage is comming from spamming 1 and sneak attack that uses no init at all? When they want to stealth they use CnD but by the time they re-enage (3-4 sec later) they almost regen all the init they lost?
How about BS build where BS doesnt even cost init. The total init cost of this burst is 6.
The advantages of the Init system far exceed that of every other classes cool down mechanic in this game. But I’m a realistic guy and I know this system will not change b/c they do not want to rebuild the class from the ground up. However, don’t come here and tell me it’s a “bigger picture cool down” when some builds basically counter the “weakness” of this system.
You’re ignoring the bigger picture.
Initiative is a class mechanic. Steal is called one as well, but it’s complete garbage compared to that of other classes. You need to compare those things against the Ranger’s pet, or the Engineer’s 4 extra Utilities, or the Elementalist’s 4 different weapon sets, etc.
Any one of those things could just as easily be argued against as overpowered when you compare it against the fact that your own personal class has no pet, or 4 fewer Utilities, or only 2 weapon sets without considering anything else like a rational person.
But you don’t. Because like so many other people, you have some ridiculous vendetta against Thieves specifically.
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I agree, it’s incredibly boring and very far from class-defining.
Do you propose we use a 4 init dancing dagger that tickles our enemies to close gaps? LOL
We would have no ability in dagger line to close gaps if you nerfed HS gap closing…
It can’t be spammed over and over, we eventually run out of init are left defenseless unless we steal from someone with certain traits.
S/X only has IS, use it once and if you lose your target, you have to port back and do it again, or wait until the SR drops. HS can be consistently spammed ad nauseum until you get to your target, AND it has the potential to do a lot of damage.
I’m not saying get rid of the leap, but it should not be as long distance as it is. You already have it easy enough, having it be a heatseeking damage dealer.
And I stand firm on the requisite of a target to force that leap. No target, and you should just swing your dagger like a wet noodle.
Forum complaints about Thieves are totally OP; all they have to do is faceroll some baseless complaints and my character is permanently weakened, so I have no chance against them! They don’t even need to be in the game to do this, much less fighting me.
Nerf Thief complainers! Seriously!
Exactly. With practically anything you can craft, it will only sell for nearly the same value as all the materials used to make it. If even that.
The large bags for example, I think ~15 or 20 slots, cost a little over 10g to buy on the TP, but they cost that much to make as well because one component is a merchant item that costs 10g.
If you want items, just buy them from other people on the TP. If you want money, just sell the base materials you find.
Crafting is, in most cases, useless in this game.
I mean even if you have the materials, the proper crafting skills, the recipe, and you actually need the thing you could make with all that, the only thing you would save by actually making it rather than selling those materials and buying it from someone else is a small amount of time.
I agree with the idea of making it cost Karma.
Karma has far too few uses right now.
There was a LOT in the most recent patch that obviously was more or less completely untested, ill conceived, and not fully planned. This is mostly because it’s created far worse problems for many classes than it purported to solve.
For thief, nerfing dancing destroyed whole builds and toppled an already teetering balance among the weapon sets. That’s a MUCH bigger issue that’s a lot more work to solve than any problem caused by the damage dancing was doing. And, it needed to be solved BEFORE dancing was nerfed.
Same kind of thing with mesmers. Sure, tossing a phantasm through a wall was completely absurd and needed to be fixed. But, the way it was done just put another class on the “obstructed” list. It’s just worse for mesmers because one phantasm is about 75% of their DPS — assuming it’s actually possible to become unobstructed. As you all know, there are many spots (eg. AC burrows) where range is obstructed no matter where you stand.
Obviously, in that case, the obstruction issues needed to be resolved before creating a worse problem than the one you tried to solve.
Now, we’re in a state of “oh, we’re busying working on the event” and thus won’t see any fixes until late January. Not sure about y’all, but I could care less about the events when the game has bugs like these.
Seriously. They never should have done these events at all with how new and buggy and unbalanced the game is right now.
If I remember correctly, GW1 waited until the second year to implement events, and that’s really what they should have done here as well.
There are way, way more important issues. The developers have their priorities completely off.
The events only last over a weekend, then they’re totally gone. What in God’s name made them think they should be wasting so much precious time and resources on them right now? They’ve been doing another freakin’ event every single month, stopping them from accomplishing practically anything else.
Think about it, how long ago was this botched up class balance patch that we’re here complaining about right now?
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I don’t know why they nerfed it at all; wasn’t a large part of the heavy damage it dealt caused by that multi-hit damage multiplying bug, which they fixed in the same patch?
The same thing that was giving Blade Trail and Kill Shot such ridiculous damage, because every time they hit someone the next person would take 2 hits worth of damage, then 3 and so on with each person hit.
The problem is the stealth is completely outside your own control, and very often it will trigger while you’re in the middle of attacking and put Revealed on you, while you’re already about to die and need stealth most.
I thinkittenerally the only times I’ve had it actually work properly are when either the attack that triggered it also stunned me, or if I was attacked at a distance while trying to reach or flee from the enemy.
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…You do realize that Toughness would reduce the damage of that single giant hit, and also prevent a one-shot, right?
With the Thief constantly popping into stealth, the enemy will definitely be focusing more on you first in many circumstances, so I would say that you should avoid anything that can’t take some hits.
I would also recommend something with lots of combo fields, because the Thief is loaded to hell with great combo finishers.
D/D has Heart Seeker, Death Blossom and Dancing Dagger, P/D has possibly the strongest combo finisher in the entire game with Sneak Attack, Shortbow has Cluster Bomb, and P/P has Unload.
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