Guild Wars 2

I’m looking for something that might not exist but hopefully you can prove me wrong

Is there any attack guild out there?

By that I mean a guild that nearly exclusively focus on flipping upgraded stuff. A guild that don’t get discouraged and will continue to attack until there is no longer any upgraded structures on the enemy map.

To that end, the guild would need to be very organized and incorporate all the following elements at the same time :

- good at zerg busting which is needed to win fights
- know how/where to place siege (if you are the kind to lose all your rams to a treb behind a door then don’t apply)
- is able to use golems effectively (speed/traveler runes?, portal chains? stealth golem?)
- is not scared to put down a siege in the middle of a fight if it means they would win it (anti-siege guilds don’t apply)
- perma stealth group that can hide a mesmer inside structure forever so you can always restart the attack (unless they use stealth trap or 30 players to kill you, you should not be find)

The only thing I care about is to flip upgraded stuff and I’m sick of the following :
- karma train
- flipping undefended paper stuff
- defending by building a ton of arrow cart and humping them until the enemy get bored
- fighting in the middle of no where for no reason
- running like headless chicken after every white swords on the map either to find fights or to defend

Extra consideration :
- I don’t want anything to do with tier 1-2 as I prefer to play the game rather than waiting in queue

So, I’m looking for a very skilled and organized guild that set the pace wherever they go and that focus on flipping upgraded stuff.

Does it exist?

Since the change to stability, I read post after post of people on the blobby servers raging because they lose all their stacks of stability in 0.2 seconds to the big bad pug blob.

Well, I got a revelation for you!

Here in the lower tiers, we have constant 5 – 10 – 15 man fights were stability still work perfectly.

When you get tired of playing the pirate ship blob game, come visit us for true WvW :P

Ancalagon.2953:

The EoTM map that was introduced was, in my opinion, a disaster turned Ktrain that no self respecting WvW player enjoyed. Even now, it remains a Ktain map that guilds only go to when regular WvW is quiet to farm linen from players.

Sadly, people never gave a chance to EotM. True, there is way too much falling down but except for that the map is amazing. I still long to see it introduced in the WvW rotation. If you are a fan of defense, siege warfare and playing wvw like a chess game, EotM should be one of your favorite map.

The way the map is played would be drastically different if it was put into the WvW rotation instead of leaving it as the 4 hour matches waiting room you ktrain to level.

Items that are put in personal bank are not deleted even if you delete all your characters and transfer.

Also currency are not deleted either (example gold). You don’t even have to do anything and the currency will be kept.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Gudradain.3892:

coglin.1867:

Hit their golems with your golems.

It works to kill other omegas for sure. An omega are a good way to kill another omega.

Only problem is that the gate will go down before you are able to kill it… At which point omega become irrelevant as the zerg run through the keep.

Got evidence of that? My experience suggest otherwise. I feel as if you react to anyone who disagrees with you by making impulsive replies, whether you actual know something is true or not. Omegas take damage fast. They take damage faster then the door, and they take great damage from players. I have yet to see you offer any compelling argument that supports making any changes.

Let’s look at number together since you don’t believe in experience.

There are some people that have taken the time to measure the wall/gate damage for us. Like this one for example :

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1S0RkQUsaXhBmv4y1dN7YtFWmuUq8VsUBUk1uxTj4AZw/edit?pli=1#gid=0

Now let’s look at a concrete example :

You have 10 Omegas attacking a keep with Reinforce gate

Reinforce Gate HP : 610000
DPS Omega : 1938
DPS of 10 Omega : 19380

So

Time it takes to destroy the gate = Reinforce Gate HP / DPS of 10 Omega
Time it takes to destroy the gate = 610000 / 19380
Time it takes to destroy the gate = 31.5 seconds

Now, there is 2 gates

Total time destroying gate = 31.5 seconds * 2 = 63 seconds

And the golem need to move, let’s say they waste 1 minute moving between gate.

Total Time = 2 minutes to destroy both gates once they started on the first one.

You also have to consider that mesmer feed back, player pvdooring, player buiding ram, golem mastery and it can go even faster.

Now let’s look how much health those 10 omegas have.

Omega HP : 270,635
HP of 10 Omeaga : 2,706,350

Do you think that you have the time to kill those 10 omegas before they take down your gates in 2 minutes considering that they are protected by a zerg that greatly outnumber you?

Experience have teach me hundred of times that the gates go down before the omegas are killed. Then you might be able to wipe the enemy zerg in lord room but at this point the omegas have already did their job which is to get you in.

There is no counter to a well organized raid of omegas except beating all the enemy zerg which you can’t do when they are as good as you and greatly outnumber you.

It’s game over as it’s impossible to stop the omegas in time. This is the problem.

coglin.1867:

Hit their golems with your golems.

It works to kill other omegas for sure. An omega are a good way to kill another omega.

Only problem is that the gate will go down before you are able to kill it… At which point omega become irrelevant as the zerg run through the keep.

Arctisavange.7260:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5UNzbUZVJQ

What if id told you that each and every golem here was wiped by good siege placement and with help of some disablers.

Like many have stated- wiping omegas is strictly server population problem.

I’m not even surprised that they got killed. I have done and countered a few golem rushes like that and it all ended the same way for the attackers : a very lame wipe.

Golems are not a replacement for a strong zerg. Through trial and error, I have find out that you need roughly 5-10 players per Omega to make a nice rush, that more than 10 golem is usually too much and that 5 golems is usually enough.

But in that video, they also did everything wrong…

- Take too many golems
- Barely any zerg to protect the golems
- Zerg that is not in golems don’t even seem organized
- Attack stonemist first to make sure they are spotted giving them plenty of time to regroup
- Seems to make golem charge right in canon fire
- Failed mesmer port
- With that many golems, you can still see arrow cart fire

Like I said, I would have been surprised if it had worked.

Still, the problem stand that when you outnumber your opponents and you have a solid organized zerg, omega golems are the magic solution to flip the entire map in a few minutes.

The problem is not that a bigger zerg than you is able to take your objectives no matter what you do. Of course they should be able to take your objectives with enough effort. The problem is the speed at which they can do it because they are using Omegas.

coglin.1867:

Defending against outnumbered odds has nothing to do with dealing with golems, it has to do with manpower.

In fact, it has everything to do with golems.

Let’s look at 2 scenario that start the same way :

You take one of your keep and spend 10s of gold to upgrade it and siege every gates/walls to counter every possible attacks you are able to imagine. Your keep is now fully upgraded/sieged and you are ready to receive the enemy zerg. You know the enemies will hit at dawn, when most of your troops are asleep leaving you with only a few defenders. This is why you spent all day making sure your defense were ready to receive them. And then they come, greatly outnumbering you…

Scenario 1

The enemy come at you with flame rams, catapults and trebuchets. But since you prepared a nice defense, you are able to counter their attacks one after another. Still, your keep is taking damage slowly. They were able to take most of your siege down with their own and your supply is running low. Slowly and surely, they are getting inside your keep that you want it or not, but you will not give up without a fight.

After many successive attacks from your enemies, the keep is finally taken… Still it has been an awesome battle where you called in every reinforcement you could find, where you made suicidal run on enemy trebuchets to delay them, where you ran supply from a far distant camp just to be able to build some counter siege at last minute and where a kitten ton of awesome fights happened.

All in all, it was a pretty nice experience.

Scenario 2

The enemy charge in with a couple of Omegas. You don’t even have time to wake up your fellow defenders that are currently dreaming about guild missions that the keep is already taken.

Not much happened. They appeared, PvDoored the gate, walked in lord room and took it. It wasn’t much of fight, certainly not a challenge in any way and hardly interesting for anyone.

So, which one do you want? #1 or #2?

The time it takes to take it and the fact that there is no hard counter unlike every other siege is what make it a problem.

If you are from Arena Net and happen to read it (which I really doubt), I have one thing to say :

Bring back WvW!

coglin.1867:

Defending against outnumbered odds has nothing to do with dealing with golems, it has to do with manpower.

In fact, it has everything to do with golems.

Let’s look at 2 scenario that start the same way :

You take one of your keep and spend 10s of gold to upgrade it and siege every gates/walls to counter every possible attacks you are able to imagine. Your keep is now fully upgraded/sieged and you are ready to receive the enemy zerg. You know the enemies will hit at dawn, when most of your troops are asleep leaving you with only a few defenders. This is why you spent all day making sure your defense were ready to receive them. And then they come, greatly outnumbering you…

Scenario 1

The enemy come at you with flame rams, catapults and trebuchets. But since you prepared a nice defense, you are able to counter their attacks one after another. Still, your keep is taking damage slowly. They were able to take most of your siege down with their own and your supply is running low. Slowly and surely, they are getting inside your keep that you want it or not, but you will not give up without a fight.

After many successive attacks from your enemies, the keep is finally taken… Still it has been an awesome fights where you called in every reinforcement you could find, where you made suicidal run on enemy trebuchets to delay them, where you ran supply from a far distant camp just to be able to build some counter siege at last minute and where a kitten ton of awesome fights happened.

All in all, it was a pretty nice experience.

Scenario 2

The enemy charge in with a couple of Omegas. You don’t even have time to wake up your fellow defenders that are currently dreaming about guild missions that the keep is already taken.

Not much happen. They appeared, PvDoored the gate, walked in lord room and took it. It wasn’t much of fight, certainly not a challenge in any way and hardly interesting for anyone.

So, which one are you? #1 or #2?

The time it takes to take it and the fact that there is no hard counter unlike every other siege is what make it a problem.

If you are from Arena Net and happen to read it (which I really doubt), I have one thing to say :

Bring back WvW!

dancingmonkey.4902:

Gudradain.3892:

How do you counter an omega rushes when the enemy outnumber you 3 to 1 or worse?

What does 1v3 or 3v1 have to do with anything? This is about thread about siege, not balance of players online between competitive servers. Stop changing the subject please.

Gudradain.3892:

I have yet to see any post that explain how do deal with them. Sure there are video around of skill groups or smart defenders wiping 30 pugs + omegas with only 15, but the omegas don’t even matter in that equation. The keep could have had no door/wall and those 30 players would still have wipe to the 15 players.

You explained it yourself. I bolded the simple explanation that folks keep posting, that you say no one explained. Glad to see you agree.

And your right, omegas do not mater in that scenario because skill and smart defending trump out. This is exactly the reasoning everyone has tried to explain, as to why golems are fine.

This is precisely what we have been trying to tell you. I am glad we were able to come to an agreement. Thank you my friend.

Did you forget to read or you are doing it on purpose?

I did start by saying that skilled players and smart defenders will be able to stop an Omega rush if they have roughly the same size or the enemy is very bad. THEN, I continued saying that if the enemy group doing the omega rush is as skilled ans as smart as you, and also outnumber you, then the omega rushes will be a pure PvDooring experience.

And the only requirement to get it rolling is to spend a couple of gold or badge of honor.

Omega are a problem and we do not agree.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Stuff…

Indeed it is my opinion. Did I stated otherwise? Do I need to write down before each post that it is my opinion? No…

Still it remains

How do you counter an omega rushes when the enemy outnumber you 3 to 1 or worse?

I have yet to see any post that explain how do deal with them. Sure there are video around of skill groups or smart defenders wiping 30 pugs + omegas with only 15, but the omegas don’t even matter in that equation. The keep could have had no door/wall and those 30 players would still have wipe to the 15 players.

When you take 2 groups that have the same skill level, the group that has the more player will win. Could we agree on that?

This is probably one of the reasons why Anet put walls, gates and sieges in this game. To give a chance to outnumbered players to be able to hold objectives by using smart siege placement. Can we still agree?

Then you have pretty much every siege that can be used to attack an objectives that can be countered by other sieges before the wall/gate go down if you do it right. Working as intended if you ask me.

And finally you have the omega… No matter what you do, when the enemy have the same skill level as you and outnumber you 3 to 1, your keep gates will go down before you can kill the omegas. Even if you prebuilt ton of sieges. The gate will go down and then you might be able to fight it out in the lord room.

It’s horrible. It’s nearly impossible to kill the omegas before they take down your gate/wall when they are protected by a smart zerg outnumbering you.

Yes it is my opinion and feel free to prove me wrong but since I have participated in 100s of successful omegas rushes and effectively countered 100s of omegas rushes, I’m very curious what you could show me.

cathistar.5482:

Omega’s are fun! Large scale Omega rushing requires servers to coordinate the effort, bringing players together. Being in IOJ and terribly outnumbered for weeks and weeks in a row, having an omega can be the only way to get PPT when you don’t have a huge blob. Come on, keep some fun in WvW. No Omega nerf!

Catleana [One] IOJ

I’m not in your match up but I would bet that omegas also cause a couple of your defenders to lose all hope. It sure is a nice event to have a golem rush, but omega rushes are horrible for everyone because there is no hard counter to them.

Deli.1302:

For ac’s you build them behind obstacles where it cannot be targeted. It’s really not my problem if you don’t know the spots.

And I’m sorry that you don’t know how to kill them with an omega.

Rimmy.9217:

And once you use all of your defending siege to kill the golems’ accompanying group, they fall like so much ripe wheat.

Only really useful sieges to kill an entire zerg in front of your door/wall are arrow carts that can be destroyed by omegas in a few seconds.

There is no counter to a Zerg + Omega Combo, unless you also have a zerg of nearly the same size that can simply wipe every enemies.

coglin.1867:

Stuff…

Way to take things out of context and create unrelated arguments.

Deli wrote that forward scouting could give you way enough time to prepare for a golem rush. To which I replied that good mesmer portals completely remove any advantage that scouting might provide. Don’t know what there is to argue here.

Next, you are telling that it is possible to counter omegas with sieges? Then go ahead, provide a screenshot of any siege placement you want and I will show you a screenshot how it can be countered by Omega by either moving to a place where it cannot hit the omega or can be destroyed by them. The most useful siege that I see is the cannon at garrison water gate, but even that can be line of sight by the omegas shooting at max range from the stairs.

But the biggest problem is that even when you don’t really counter all the defending siege by smart use of the omegas, the gate still go down before all your omegas get killed.

Nerf that I think might work with omegas are :

1. Increase the supply required to build them : like at least double it
2. Make them do no damage to gate or wall : they would only be used to kill siege
3. Reduce their health

Solution 2-3 could be combined together and could come with a reduce cost.

Deli.1302:

Counters to omega golems:

1)Forward scouting. Catch them before they get to your keep/tower. This gives defenders more time to get ready on the siege or for your zerg to come wipe them in open field.

Have you heard of chained mesmer portals? Golem can pop from spawn to your keep in 10 seconds. I have done many such attacks. The defenders don’t have time to prepare siege or rally when you do that.

Deli.1302:

2)Mesmers dropping feedback on the golems
3)Guardians dropping wall of reflection in front of the gate. You can even drop it from behind the gate and it’ll still work if I remember correctly.

And oil reflect or any other skills that absorb/reflect stuff. Thing is, unless the golem driver is very dumb, he will not continue to shoot if he’s inside a mesmer feedback field or if he sees a wall of reflection on the gate.

What is even worse is that because of the very high health of the omegas, even very bad players that continue attacking, even if their missile are reflected, don’t even kill themselves before the gate go down. It’s ridiculous.

Deli.1302:

4)Proper siege placement. Trebs, acs and ballistas. If you build them in the right spots, they can’t be taken out by golems.

Screenshots?

ACs : There is not a single spot where you can place them that will hit every place an omega can “hide” while attacking the gate AND that can’t be destroyed by the omega (unless you are using zoom hack). Couple with the fact that arrow carts only tickle the omegas, it might very well be one of the most useless siege against omega rushes to protect the gate.

Ballista : Very hard to find a spot where it can hit the omegas AND cannot be instantly destroyed by all the players doing the golem rush. Few notable exceptions are some of the keep where you can place them above the dome. Still omegas can find spot to hide from it and the enemy zerg can kill them with their own ballista.

Trebuchet/Mortar : Very hard to hit every spots in front of the gate with it. Omega can easily find a place to hide from those shots.

Cannon : Siege disabled as soon as the zerg ran it to protect the golems and then focus by the players in a few seconds.

Deli.1302:

5)Siege Disablers

Sadly, siege disablers are the only real counter but they don’t do any damage. You will only delay the rushes. And if the omegas spread, you will only be able to disable 1 or 2 at a time. In the end the gate is going down, or wall.

I have commanded my fare share of omega rushes to victory and frankly, it’s boring. There is no counter to omega rushes when you outnumber your opponents. You WILL take their keep, no question asked.

Anyone else feel like

- there is no siege counter to omega (unlike every other siege)
- render nearly every defense siege useless
- is a slap in the face to any defender
- it’s a pay to win solution

Only requirements to use them is to outnumber your opponents and spend 10s of golds to build them. Then let the karma train begin!

I have been on both side. I have massively used omegas to take fortified keeps and I have lost tons of fortified keeps to omegas.

But really, the biggest problem with them is :

It’s not fun to play with omegas in their current state.

It’s not fun to attack a keep with them because, if you can win the zerg fight than you will cap the keep. It’s guaranteed. You know you outnumber your opponents, you build your omegas and you take the keep. No challenge at all.

The reverse is not fun either. Defending against a big horde that use smart ballista, ram, arrow cart and catapult placement to take down your walls, gates or sieges is fun. Defending against a blob that bring omegas is super boring. Throw siege disabler, attack from top of wall, suicide on it, try to build arrow carts. No matter what you try it’s usually useless the gate will go down and your only option is to have a nice meat grinder ready inside.

Omegas also heavily favored the winning server that field the biggest blobs.

Playing with or against omegas is just not fun.

joneirikb.7506:

While I agree that there is way to much wasted space up on the north of BL, I’m curious what you wanted to achieve with this ? North camp is gone, you wanted to replace Garri with Citadels instead as a new keep ? Or will Citadel remain a spawn area and cut down to 2 keeps ?

I see both NE and NW camps, and N camp obviously removed. I can see traces of both NE and NW towers, are they in or out of the map ?

I we remove Garri, NWT, NET, and NC. that reduces map from 145 to 95 PPT, further making the map less attractive than EBG (doesn’t have to be a bad thing). It also seems to make things much closer, spawns are closer, and we would be focused more at the 2 remaining keeps. Might be interesting.

Note: I’m biased since I play on very low pop server, higher tiers might need all those extra structures.

- Garri, NW tower, NE tower and N camp are gone.
- Citadel is still a spawn area
- 3 ways to get out of Citadel : 1) Jump in water 2) By NW camp 3) By NE camp

Goal
Make everything closer together to make the map more interesting on lower tier. I was thinking that tier 1 to 4 could have the old home borderland map and tier 5 and below could have this one.

Moving citadel down and removing everything at the north.

Shorter match up please, not longer. 3 days max would be a good number.

Did they removed it completely from the map? (or just a bug)

mango.9267:

No, the larger server usually doesn’t have to make the tradeoff because they have enough players to be able to both scout and zerg. The weaker servers are the ones who have to decide between scouting and zerging, neither of which will be effective against the larger server. Obviously, the larger server can’t hold everything, but they can spare enough people to hold enough structures that they retain very high PPT.

Why is it so hard to understand that the strongest server in a match up usually hold more objectives, so it has a bigger territory to scout.

Every server has to make that trade off and things balanced themselves quite nicely at the moment. As soon as a server over extend, they lack the scouts/population to protect everything and things start to flip.

White swords made it way more imbalanced. The strongest server could simply watch the map for swords and zerg defend everything. The weaker server had no chance to recap anything unless the strongest server let them because they were bored and wanted to karma train.

Removing the white swords was a much needed change and I hope Anet keep it.

On lower tiers it makes match up more balanced and more interesting. People stopped staring at the map for hours in a semi-afk state and are now playing the game. Actively scouting.

Also, defending is a lot more interesting since group of any size will now try to ninja your stuff. Before this change, a small group would never even dream to attack one of your upgraded tower. Now they give it a try. It creates interesting fights and a lot of action all the time.

MomentofWeakness.1246:

My group of 40 couldn’t fight JQ’s group of 65+ by itself.

That’s a learn to play issue my friend. Fix it.

Kolisch.4691:

This used to be my GW2 experience scouting the map before the removal of white swords:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/p1UaLWO.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i.imgur.com/jKk5Q8s.jpg[/img]

Now I’m actively tailing havoc groups/zergs, picking off stragglers, sniping their tails, communicating much more with people on the map, kitten people off because I keep following them… they get kittened off and leave more often lately.

Of course, majority (maybe 99%) don’t agree with how this works because they don’t like to do active scouting. But my wvw has gotten better lately.

+1

Had the same experience as you.

Jski.6180:

To allow smaller groups to have a chase at taking T3 towers. Towers and keeps should never be something you can hold for 24hr+ and with white swords you could always get a free heads up when even the small man groups are going after something that will take them well over 10 mins to take down a door or a wall. By taking out the free scouting system you make it harder to hold on to towers making them game feel less of a running your head agen a wall or running with a super zerg (the main way to speed things up) but more as if even your small group can do something truly meaningful.

The blow back atm is about ppl who want to make WvW into a very stagnate game during the week to hold keeps and towers forever over all making it a very boring bunker game. Ppl are just unable to get over them self to lose something witch is very much part of wvw you NEED to be ready to lose objectives you CANT hold every thing all the time.

Exactly. Thank you for understanding how WvW should work.

Removing white swords was a much needed change. Especially on lower tier. I don’t know why some people think they can hold an entire borderland all night long without anything flipping at all but it’s ridiculous.

Mitch the Fish.1947:

With the white swords gone the smaller guilds in all of Tier 1 now have a chance to show just how useful they can be. Instead of forcing servers to blob up in order to defend then now have to spread out which makes the game much more fair for all size groups to both attack and defend. Personally my guild is a havoc guild and now we have the capability to not only attack waypointed structures but if the scouts are not paying attaention we regularly capture them. Scouts now actually have to pay attaention to all the sneakier places for siege units to be placed instead of just semi-afk and wait for swords to pop then start looking. That being said ArenaNet should definately work out a reward system of some kind for those who ACTIVELY scout and find havoc teams being sneaky.

This. I experienced the same thing and I’m on tier 6-7.

It’s a good change.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Because we can’t find any fights! There’s nothing to stabby stab. I flipped an entire BL of camps, north camp included, and nobody showed up for a fight.

Meaning there was no one on the map, hence it’s normal you didn’t find anyone to fight. Whitesword are not the issue here.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I don’t like it because, again, it advantages the big server more than the small. I dislike anything that widen the gap we already have.

Actually, it makes matchup more balanced since it makes it easier for the losing servers to cap things.

The losing servers own less targets so it’s easier to scout them all even if they have a lower population.

The winning server owns more targets so it’s harder for it to scout everything, which make it easier for the losing servers to steal their upgraded structures.

Please keep the change.

The one that benefits from it the most are the lower tiers and roamers in my opinion.

It’s a good change.

It makes WvW more dynamic and more balanced.

My first reaction was, like most people, to think that this would make defending nearly impossible. Indeed, the map will give you a lot less information…

But, this change might just be the first one that :

1. Will make the zerg/blob split (if they don’t want to lose everything)
2. Will favor the losing servers.

The more objectives you hold, the more objectives your enemies can attack. And you won’t know it’s under attack before you lose it

White sword on contested objectives in WvW are supposed to be gone by tomorrow. So this means that the map won’t give you any indications that a tower is being attacked for example.

I know there was a pretty heated reaction when it was announced, but now that you had time to think about it (and try it soon) :

What is your opinion? Is it a good idea or a bad idea?

Jim Hunter.6821:

Everyone I have ever met in EotM is a free bag. I’ve run into plenty of thieves that run around trying to gank uplevels and smacked them around like the little kittenes they are while I was leveling characters. EotM is a complete joke, please leave that crap out of the WvW forum.

The joke is WvW. Everyone you met in there is either terribad and running back to the nearest tower or chasing you all around the map with their skill blob that outnumber you 10 to 1. This is not PvP.

WvW used to a very nice place but it was because of the diversity of people in it. This was WvW 1 year ago :

• Karma trainer : Your usual skill less blob where you go to relax, get loot or attack them to get easy bags and troll
• Map Completionist : Would rather be somewhere else but at least they can follow the karma train and get some loots!
• Defender/Scout : The best feeling is really when you can crush a 50 man karma train with well placed siege all by yourself (this is what made me play WvW so much)
• Skill group : Most effective way to destroy your opponents. Always a blast to take on group bigger than you.
• Roamer : Your average troll/ganker that happen to flip a camp from time to time

WvW today :

• Karma trainer : Long gone to EoTM which make WvW more empty
• Map completionist : Still stuck in WvW but it’s even worse for them without the karma train
• Defender/scout : Frankly got nothing to do. The karma train made it lively for them. There was an attack every 15 minutes. Now you sit for hours on your AC doing nothing.
• Skill group : Chasing roamer and map completionist all around the map because they got no one else to fight…
• Roamer : Being chased by skill groups or watching people sit on arrow cart in tower? Let’s go flip all the camps on this map and hope to get some fair fights.

If you are looking for a lot of small fights and lot of duels : try EotM.

When I go in there, I find roamer all around the place that are harassing the big uplevel zergs. You can duel them, they are there for that and they want it. Also, if you follow the enemy zerg, players will come to fight you.

Also that zerg is not interested to run after 1 roamer so you can usually follow them all day long if you want.

But yeah, WvW is not the place to find small fights. Go to EotM for that.

Revive the karma train…

It’s only that. It’s what we are missing to have what we had 1 year ago. Take a few seconds and try to remember how you start playing WvW 2 years ago.

First time I got into WvW, 2 years ago, I met a big group of players lead by a dude with a blue dorito above his head. That big group of players where running around killing everyone on their way and capping every structure. I found that amazing and I kept playing.

I later learned there was more to it and learned all the tactics, but I started playing WvW in the karma train following that “PvE commander”.

New blood is not getting into WvW lately and my guess is that the barrier of entry is too high. There are no easy karma train to follow so players don’t come in and when they come in they got arrow cart, siege disabler and zerg busting guilds just waiting for them.

WvW is not healthy right now because there is not a constant flow of new players in it. Take EotM on the other side. It is very healthy currently. I know all of you will say that EotM is not WvW and that you don’t want to have anything to do with it but you should really.

I played it today and in 1 hour, I had at least 15 1v1 or 2v1 with other levels 80. When is the last time you got that in WvW? Months ago? I could follow their zerg forever just waiting for random players to come fight me and I got it. In WvW, you see 1 player and you chase him with 30 across all the map.

People are looking to have fun. People like karma train and good fights. Currently it’s hard to get either in WvW.

There are 2 great maps that I would like to see in WvW : EotM and Silverwaste

EotM would be a great replacement for Eternal Battleground.

Silverwaste would be a great replacement for Home Battleground. One team would be with the NPC and the 2 other teams would fight against them.

So why not rotate them every 2 weeks?

Nice recruitment post. I think I will join your server!

Reverence.6915:

We need murder holes on the walls, dropping rocks that knock down players in an AoE range similar to burning oil

That’s great. I’m thinking about flame turret all along the wall that burn and fear players. The fear would be great at hill for sure.

There was a guardian soloing the lich the other day. He brought it to 5% alone before the zerg ran in to get the kill…

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Guild Story!
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We definitively need to be able to upgrade the mercenaries’ camps in eternal battleground.

I want to get my ogre castle or my dredge fortress

Make it free for all so you can kill anyone except the players in your party or guild.

It will be the best place to hang around for fights

I think flame ram should really be able to damage wall. Putting catapult at point blank range is kinda a bad use of catapult and yes at some place you can’t really put them far away, like on hill outer wall.

Flame ram would be much better than point blank catapult.

and my cata is too squishy under arrow cart fire. I really need a ram!

Has anyone seriously tried to host GvG in EotM or not?

I don’t see any reason why it wouldn’t work and we could stop this t1/t2 is GvG heaven madness.

ShadowStep.3640:

If GvG ever wants to reconstruct itself, it should do so on a lower tier server. That’s why GvG failed, because they choose to house it in tier 2 instead of tier 5 or 6. By housing GvG in a lower tier, you can GvG all you want without much pressure to ppt.

This.

Time to give up on this fail T2 GvG experiment that is destroying the game for everyone. Destroying it for yourself, like we can see with Mag currently, and destroying it for all the other server that you drain of their WvW guilds.

Better to spread out evenly in silver league. That way you will get different server to fight every week.

John Corpening.9847:

• We want a thriving and vibrant WvW community in each world. That is to say, we want people to play with and against.
• We want to continue to play with our friends and the communities that we have developed already.

So… Alliance!

I really like your alliance idea. Also, you are dead on that we want to continue to play with our friends and that we want balanced/active wvw population.

But, there is a few more points to consider :

• Alliance have to be dynamic : Static alliances are bound to fail.
• Competition is healthy : We need more than 3 worlds total and we need some sort of ranking.
• Overflow kill competition : See EotM karma train.
• Upgrades bring competition : See EotM karma train.

Here is my vision of your alliance idea.

Player managed dynamic alliance

Think of alliance as super WvW guild. There would be the normal guilds that we have currently and then the super WvW guild, that we call an alliance.

• Player can create an alliance.
• Player can be in only 1 alliance at a time (+ their 5 normal guilds)
• Alliance can have rank and leaders that administer them
• Alliance chat that can be seen by everyone in the alliance no matter where they are
• Alliance are limited to 3000 members (this is to make it impossible to all stack in the same one)
• Alliance have a name
• Players in an alliance are guaranteed to be together in the week match up.
• A player is not required to be in an alliance.

Introducing the concept of coalition

A coalition is a group of alliances. Think of coalition like the current server. Coalition are the replacement for server.

• New coalition are formed every week
• Coalition fight against each other during the week in group of 3 (that we call a match up)
• Each coalition in a same match up have roughly the same level of player activity. Players and alliances are put in coalition in a way that make things as fair as possible.

Benefits of that solution

• Players are assured to continue to play with their friends week after week if they want.
• Each week you will be with new allies and face new enemies which bring diversity.
• Each week new coalitions will be formed in order to make each match up as balanced as possible.
• It gives the control to the players.
• It’s a long term viable solution. It will fix population imbalance immediately and permanently.

New ranking system

It would be nice to have a new ranking system for the alliance. Maybe based on your victory ratio. If whenever an alliance is in a coalition, that coalition win the match, maybe it’s because that alliance is VERY good.

It would be nice to find a way to calculate the strength of each alliance, but we should probably do that discussion in another thread.

TLDR

Alliance = Group of players that want to play together
Coalition = Group of alliances and/or players that are put together for a week.
Match up = 3 coalitions that fight it out for 1 week to see which coalition is the best.

But really, take the time to read it

You should rename this thread : An end to WvW.

With your idea that’s what would happen. I play because I enjoy seeing the same players every day and I get to know them. And I like the ranking system with the servers constantly rising and falling.

I have been playing this game mode for 2 years because I like constantly rebuilding something. That something is my guild and my server.

Remove that and you destroy the game that I love.

DocHoliday… That name ring a bell from a long time ago

What we really need is a legendary siege razer for keeps.