Guild Wars 2

phaeris.7604:

“Here’s what I think – Cleansing Ire is not as bad as people make it out to be – you actually have to LAND your F1 in order to clear the condies – and a good player won’t allow you to.”

This is what i hate, this sort of argument. Surely if the warrior is a good player he will land it every time. Do you instantly lose your ability to play once you choose warrior, do you lose the ability to time attacks and count dodge rolls. When I play my warrior in spvp i rarely miss an adrenal attack with any weapon, it’s not that hard.

Also, if you’re having trouble landing the longbow F1, then this isn’t the game for you.

The fact that the only F1 skill people are bringing up is longbow pretty much proves just how easy to land and useful the other F1 skills are.

Also – i’m trying to point out that the condition removal provided by Ire is not an " on demand hit it whenever i want " condition removal button.
Your opponent has just as much say in you removing or not removing those conditions as you do.
If he can dodge / block / blind your F1 you’re not going to remove – period.

The whole concept of ascended they brought out is that you have to craft it. That’s why selling it will never happen.

Bombsaway.7198:

Warrior (Nerf)
Ranger (Buff)

Other thoughts?

Considering you’re trolling this hard :

Rangers ( nerf )
Warriors ( buff )

!!!

The whole issue I think boils down to the condition heavy meta that is forcing warriors into this particular spec.
Any other non-defense spec is not even remotely viable.
If conditions weren’t such a big part of the meta I doubt we’d be seeing the issues we are now.

Regarding Ire being moved to 30 points – it might help and it might not. The end result will most likely be the same but now the warrior has to invest 10 more points in defense.
I really don’t know what to say.

I would be interested in that as well.

Bombsaway.7198:

I think that one could equally say that you are blinded in the idea that there should be a class that is popular. In an sPvP environment, FOTM makes it not matter much. But in WvW, the issue is quite important.

I don’t think it is unrealistic to say that traditionally a game relies upon having a mix of all classes roughly in balance. This is why you often see the popular class being the one that is at best average. Imagine what SWTOR would look like if Jedis were actually the most powerful (It was a significant design discussion).

In all aspects of the game, you tend to seek balance (population, economy, etc). Class balance is no different. If you have too many warriors, you nerf warriors. If you can’t get enough people to play a certain class you buff it.

You don’t obliterate it because then you will have the problem of too few. But, you do indeed tone the class down. You never ever want to see a zerg where 2 classes represent 50ish percent of the toons.

You do realize you’re talking about apples and oranges right?

Warriors being POPULAR doesn’t mean warriors are OVERPOWERED.
A class can be POPULAR without it being overpowered.

By your logic – mesmers – currently the least popular class should be buffed until what? Most people switch to mesmer? And when they do you start nerfing and buff the other unplayed classes then repeat?

Warriors were VERY underpowered until the HS and condi cleanse patches and I believe they were still the most played class in the game AT THAT TIME – if not the most played definitely in the top 3. And you couldn’t even warrior in sPVP or WvW – you would lose that bad.

This whole notion is silly.
Classes by design are more or less suited for different tasks.

Eles for example do AOE – you need AOE in a zerg.
Guardians have reflects, condi cleanse and boons – you need those in a zerg.
Necro has tons of condi aoe- you need that in a zerg.

What does thief bring to a zerg? Nada.

So by your logic – nerf the first three and buff thieves so they become part of a zerg in WvW?

Classes are designed around a core concept – some classes don’t fit in with the idea of zerg play. And WvW is and will be focused on zerg play because of the map design.

Please see reason.

Warrior’s condition management was buffed in an attempt by Anet to make the meta shift from condi-heavy to something else.
That’s not what happened – what happened is people jumped on playing warriors instead of countering the newly emerging threat. Either that or went to the forums and started crying about how OP warriors now are instead of finding a counter and moving from there.

Here’s what I think – Cleansing Ire is not as bad as people make it out to be – you actually have to LAND your F1 in order to clear the condies – and a good player won’t allow you to.

The problem are the bads that will and that will cry that you killed them.

Kyon.9735:

Yes, I was wondering why you kept pushing the issue with Warrior’s Sprint when I was focusing on Dogged March, Adrenal Health, and Cleansing Ire. Turns out I was calling the “Defense” trait as “Discipline” instead.

And yes, Warriors need the Defense Line but they’re getting too much for just 20 points. What I think that can fix it is change Adrenal Health from a Minor trait to a Major trait. They should put it at either Adept or Master trait so Warriors will carefully choose between Adrenal Health, Dogged March, and Cleansing Ire if they only plan to invest 20 points.

The same goes for Fast Hands. It’s like a necessity for warriors to be really versatile but I believe Fast Hands is too strong to be just a Minor trait. My suggestion is to make it an Adept Trait so Warriors who don’t plan on investing that much in Discipline trait can get it for less and those who plans on investing more will now have to Choose it and not get it free.

I don’t really agree with your fast hands idea.
I see what you’re trying to do when you say move adrenal health but I feel people are only looking at one side of the coin.

Example : defense tree useless trait – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thick_Skin

How about we fix some of these as well?[/quote]

Care to elaborate why you don’t agree with Fast Hands changes? Warriors have been saying that it should be an Adept Minor trait (they only want to spend 5 trait points for it) but in reality it is too strong to be a Minor trait. So instead of spending 15 points for it, you get to have it for 10. I know, people don’t like to spend for something that used to be a “Freebie”.

Everybody knows every single class can link broken and more useless traits so let’s keep the conversation at Adrenal Health, Dogged March, and Cleansing Ire and how they’re currently too strong just for 20 points. One broken trait does not make it a reason to make another trait stronger than what it has to be.[/quote]

The issue with making it 10 points for fast hands is that you’re basically removing the balancing factor.
Having to go 15 in discipline means you can’t get another trait choice somewhere else.
It’s not free – it is forcing you to make a choice. By making it a 10 point trait you’re basically giving the 5 points for free.

If a warrior invests more than 15 in the discipline line it’s pretty much clear he’s going to probably go 30 so he’ll get it anyway. The idea is to keep the investment balanced – and i think it works well as it is.

Also – regarding Thick Skin – I know a lot of classes have a lot of broken traits – I’m not saying they don’t.

I’m just saying is that if you feel that we should look at the defense tree – by all means let’s look at ALL of it – not just the parts that you feel are OP.

Yes- it is a strong tree – but if you change it at the moment warrior will be sent back to the bottom of the barrel.
With condis being the meta ( and the meta hasn’t shifted) without that particular tree a warrior is useless.
Until the meta shifts ( and I think it will given the new changes that are starting with the newly announced feature patch) you can’t really change those much without wrecking the class.
Other classes are so adept at spamming soft cc that it’ll become nearly impossible to get close – one of the reasons the traits were added in the first place.

Yes – I can verify from experience that the weapon drops have been lowered drastically.
I haven’t seen ONE fractal weapon since the patch came out and before that I did have some drop – just not the one I want.

Or at least give us a vendor that will take 5/10 fractal weapons that have and give us 1 that we want. That would also maybe be fair.
So many people have doubles.

It’s sad but this topic will probably be moved – and I doubt the devs will bother replying to this – with the LS stuff and Feature patch I doubt they’ll give fractals any more love soon.

Another issue as you’ve nicely pointed out Asia is the token system – we have TONS of them and nothing to spend them on.

And while we’re on the matter – what about ascended rings? Give us a way to salvage, or at least sell them for a decent price.
Anyone who does fractals regularly is SWIMMING in those things with NO practical use for them. I must have at least 2-3 of EVERY kind.
I don’t really want to sell them for 2s each – at least make them something like 1g each for vendoring them. That would be better I guess.

Keep the feedback coming guys!

Kyon.9735:

Harper.4173:

Kyon.9735:

Harper.4173:

Kyon.9735:

Sure, then can you please quote me where I said Warrior’s sprint is OP because I’m 100% sure what I said was it was usually paired with Warrior’s Sprint (or any other trait) in addition to fast hands. Now who’s assuming? Stop putting words into my mouth and start reading.

And no, I don’t die to warriors a lot anymore since I’ve learned from them that I need to start running away as well when things go bad though I can’t run as good as them. Don’t worry it’s a good thing.

P.S I still have to hear your thoughts about the Discipline trait line. It seems you’re avoiding the topic of how it is a “package” trait line for 20 points.

I’m just pointing out that if you feel warrior is op it might be because of the defense tree and not the discipline one.
The discipline traits were in this state even when warriors weren’t considered OP by everyone and nobody complained about it.

I personally don’t favor the discipline trait line – I don’t really consider 20 points in that to be a " package".

Yes, I stand corrected. What I meant was the Defense Tree Line. Thanks for the heads up, gonna edit them and sorry for the misunderstanding. Turns out I should be the one reading my own posts.

That’s how i thought it was – it made very little sense and got me both angry and confused to see you going on about something that’s not really the issue.

The defense tree is strong – I’ll give you that – but without it a feel warriors are just not a viable class in sPVP or WvW.

Try the following – go into sPVP and try to make the best build you can without investing into the defense tree.

Protip : you can’t.

That’s why they made healing signet the way it is now – they tried to promote builds that weren’t going to invest that much into that defense tree – to give non-defense oriented warriors a chance to stay in the game and deal out some damage.

Currently a warrior that doesn’t spec in that trait line is just a free kill.
And that says a lot about a class that people are calling " OP " and " best class ".

Yes, I was wondering why you kept pushing the issue with Warrior’s Sprint when I was focusing on Dogged March, Adrenal Health, and Cleansing Ire. Turns out I was calling the “Defense” trait as “Discipline” instead.

And yes, Warriors need the Defense Line but they’re getting too much for just 20 points. What I think that can fix it is change Adrenal Health from a Minor trait to a Major trait. They should put it at either Adept or Master trait so Warriors will carefully choose between Adrenal Health, Dogged March, and Cleansing Ire if they only plan to invest 20 points.

The same goes for Fast Hands. It’s like a necessity for warriors to be really versatile but I believe Fast Hands is too strong to be just a Minor trait. My suggestion is to make it an Adept Trait so Warriors who don’t plan on investing that much in Discipline trait can get it for less and those who plans on investing more will now have to Choose it and not get it free.

I don’t really agree with your fast hands idea.
I see what you’re trying to do when you say move adrenal health but I feel people are only looking at one side of the coin.

Example : defense tree useless trait – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thick_Skin

How about we fix some of these as well?

Possibly – but selling ascended won’t happen.

I wish they made a CDI thread regarding fractals – i feel fewer and fewer players are doing it now – and it’ll be dead pretty soon if something isn’t done.

Also – to answer jheryn – i see your point on fractal skins – and I agree – they should be hard to get.
So maybe make it 2 stacks of Pristine relics / skin. That means 500 completed runs.

It won’t make the skins become very prevalent – they will still be exclusive – but on the other hand players like you, me or your friend will be able to eventually get that one weapon they need.

I still do fractals – but there’s no guarantee I’ll ever get that bow.
It’s frustrating to see it drop in a run to a guardian player – who can’t even use it – and wonder if I’ll get it this year or maybe next year?

Atherakhia.4086:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I think the real issue is that currently Warriors are currently rewarded far more than other professions for not specializing. For example, if a Warrior had to run Cleric’s gear to have high sustain, I wouldn’t think anything of it. But they don’t. They just equip Healing Signet and boom, they have high sustain.

I wouldn’t mind if they had to spec heavily into defense to be impossible to burst down, but they really don’t. Almost every weapon set has significant damage mitigation capabilities built in (Axe/Axe is the only one I can think of that doesn’t) and on top of that, they have numerous utilities and even a heal option where they simply do not take damage.

About the only things Warriors actually have to spec into is damage, but since that is the only thing they need to spec for, there’s no reason to not do it.

Biggest thing I would do would be to heavily nerf the base values of the Healing Signet passive and Adrenal Health, but also drastically boost the Healing Power scaling (say, up to 20% from the current 5% on the signet). At bare minimum, this forces the Warrior to actually spec for heavy sustain if they want it. Addressing the other roles that should be specced for is more complex, but sustain, at least, has an easy thing to point to and say “this needs to change”.

Most weapon sets for most classes have ways to avoid damage.

What other heal in the game requires heavy investment in healing power before it’s worth slotting? You can’t start a precedent like this unless you’re prepared to follow through with it for every class.

If the only thing Warriors need to spec into is damage, why do no Warriors spec into damage? The meta specs right now are 0/0/30/30/10 (or something close like 0/0/25/30/15) or 0/0/30/10/30. Neither of these are investing in damage. It’s all utility.

Has anyone who has formed an opinion that the class is overpowered actually played the class so they can actually offer an informed and unbiased opinion on the class? Every post in this thread is just people looking to eviscerate the class instead of actually balance it. The class is overpowered, but the ideas people come up with leave me thinking no one has actually played it…

It’s funny but you’re right – in a sense most people in these threads are only here to nail warriors to a cross and are just spilling their rage onto the forum.
Nerf warrior – i don’t care how – just nerf them into the ground.

The class isn’t overpowered in my opinion – but the fact that the people calling it that and saying warriors have everything is rather sad. They haven’t played the class at all and probably don’t even know that if you go 0 in the defense trait line you’re going to be a free kill.

Kyon.9735:

Harper.4173:

Kyon.9735:

Sure, then can you please quote me where I said Warrior’s sprint is OP because I’m 100% sure what I said was it was usually paired with Warrior’s Sprint (or any other trait) in addition to fast hands. Now who’s assuming? Stop putting words into my mouth and start reading.

And no, I don’t die to warriors a lot anymore since I’ve learned from them that I need to start running away as well when things go bad though I can’t run as good as them. Don’t worry it’s a good thing.

P.S I still have to hear your thoughts about the Discipline trait line. It seems you’re avoiding the topic of how it is a “package” trait line for 20 points.

I’m just pointing out that if you feel warrior is op it might be because of the defense tree and not the discipline one.
The discipline traits were in this state even when warriors weren’t considered OP by everyone and nobody complained about it.

I personally don’t favor the discipline trait line – I don’t really consider 20 points in that to be a " package".

Yes, I stand corrected. What I meant was the Defense Tree Line. Thanks for the heads up, gonna edit them and sorry for the misunderstanding. Turns out I should be the one reading my own posts.

That’s how i thought it was – it made very little sense and got me both angry and confused to see you going on about something that’s not really the issue.

The defense tree is strong – I’ll give you that – but without it a feel warriors are just not a viable class in sPVP or WvW.

Try the following – go into sPVP and try to make the best build you can without investing into the defense tree.

Protip : you can’t.

That’s why they made healing signet the way it is now – they tried to promote builds that weren’t going to invest that much into that defense tree – to give non-defense oriented warriors a chance to stay in the game and deal out some damage.

Currently a warrior that doesn’t spec in that trait line is just a free kill.
And that says a lot about a class that people are calling " OP " and " best class ".

I’ve been thinking of making a topic addressing these issues for quite some time.

1) Fractal rewards are poorly balanced.
You get 1 gold 10 silver ( around that sum) for completing a level 11 fractal and 1 gold and 40 silver for a level 49. How is this balanced?
You might say drops but the RNG in the chests and mob drops is so high that it’s nearly impossible to say if you get better or worse drops.

I’ve done a lot of 49 runs, a lot of 38 runs – haven’t noticed ANY difference in drops whatsoever.
There is however a difference in difficulty.

2)Fractal weapons – the whole idea of having a super rare exclusive weapon type that you can only get in one place and can’t buy is one i completely get behind. 100%.

But here’s the deal – I’ve done OVER 500 fractal runs and I’ve yet to get the weapon I want. This is absolutely silly.

You should be able to turn 100 or 200 or even 300 Pristine fractal relics into a token and get your weapon that way.

I’ve been going for my fractal longbow since June and have yet to obtain one. Did an average of 1 run per day. Sometimes none, sometimes 2-3 runs / day.

3)The dredge fractal.

Why do we even have this fractal? it is poorly designed. It’s just there to eat your time up.
You want a good example of how a tier 3 fractal should look ? Look no further than the volcanic fractal.
Good team? done in 15-20 minutes.
Bad team ? You’re there for quite a bit of time ( possibly even an hour).
That’s the kind of gameplay that I feel is right – reward good players and create incentive for bad players to get good.

4)Things that should have been associated with fractals and put in the game but a year + later we still don’t have.

-Why don’t we have a fractal-related title yet?
-Where are the fractal leaderboards we were promised?
-Were are the fractal weapon boxes that were promise and still aren’t in the game.
-Why are we still capped at 50 PR even though ascended armor has been out for quite a bit of time?

Building a legendary weapon was supposed to be a journey. Something you underwent, traversed, pushed through and at the end of it all you would have this awesome weapon that you had worked for all this time.

Sadly while there is still a lot of work that goes into making a legendary it is mostly grind work.
When I made mine I BOUGHT maybe 80% of what I needed off the TP.

Where’s the legendary feat there? I placed buy orders and waited. So epic.

Precursor crafting should be in the game – but not like ascended crafting is.
Materials should be non-tradeable and a more gift-like and less weapon like crafting system would be great.
Make it so a precursor is made out of various things we put in the forge ( with no RNG – just like how you make gifts for legendaries).

jihm.2315:

Harper.4173:

Heimdallr.7021:

Bombsaway.7198:

The greatest precursor of balance is population of a class. Warriors need to be toned down dramatically.

Maybe you didn’t play when GW2 was released but warrior was a very popular class even back then.
In every MMO the warrior is usually a very played class.

People like bombs will never get it – since he’s blinded by his hatred at the class.
Warriors will ALWAYS be popular. People like a simple class.

Mesmer will ALWAYS be less popular – even if you make them super OP – which they were at the beginning of the game. Because they’re complicated to use and have wonky mechanics. People don’t want wonky mechanics – they want to hit things with big swords.

spvp was a mesmer fest when they where overpowered

sPVP means NO investment in that character.
Not very many players in the player base bother with any form of pvp. The point here being that players sPVP cannot be considered representative for the majority of the players that this game has.

sPVP is more of a flavor of the month place – because making and gearing a char is easy there.

I was here on day one of this game’s start. Mesmers were a scarce occurrence. And probably always will be.

Heimdallr.7021:

Bombsaway.7198:

The greatest precursor of balance is population of a class. Warriors need to be toned down dramatically.

Maybe you didn’t play when GW2 was released but warrior was a very popular class even back then.
In every MMO the warrior is usually a very played class.

People like bombs will never get it – since he’s blinded by his hatred at the class.
Warriors will ALWAYS be popular. People like a simple class.

Mesmer will ALWAYS be less popular – even if you make them super OP – which they were at the beginning of the game. Because they’re complicated to use and have wonky mechanics. People don’t want wonky mechanics – they want to hit things with big swords.

Kyon.9735:

Sure, then can you please quote me where I said Warrior’s sprint is OP because I’m 100% sure what I said was it was usually paired with Warrior’s Sprint (or any other trait) in addition to fast hands. Now who’s assuming? Stop putting words into my mouth and start reading.

And no, I don’t die to warriors a lot anymore since I’ve learned from them that I need to start running away as well when things go bad though I can’t run as good as them. Don’t worry it’s a good thing.

P.S I still have to hear your thoughts about the Discipline trait line. It seems you’re avoiding the topic of how it is a “package” trait line for 20 points.

I’m just pointing out that if you feel warrior is op it might be because of the defense tree and not the discipline one.
The discipline traits were in this state even when warriors weren’t considered OP by everyone and nobody complained about it.

I personally don’t favor the discipline trait line – I don’t really consider 20 points in that to be a " package".

Kyon.9735:

No, it’s not because I don’t like it but rather don’t you find it true that warriors are getting a lot just for putting in a few trait points? I guess your hostility means I hit a spot. And what’s more, this kind of argument will be more fruitful than those “L2P issues” excuses which will get you nowhere. The reasoning was thoroughly explained, you need to read it again.

I have no problems with warriors having both warriors sprint and fast hands or having all 3 of Dogged March, Adrenal Health, and Cleansing Ire as long as they fairly invest for it.

But seriously that kind of attitude will get you nowhere. You’re putting words into my mouth and your sarcasm failed miserably.

See – you’re assuming. It’s not that you hit a spot – the problem is that you missed it by so much it actually hurts.
Warrior’s sprint and fast hands weren’t an issue since the game was launched but lately ANYTHING about the warrior has been suggested to be godawful OP and terribly strong.
Because the overall flavor of the forums this month has been that warriors are the punching bag of all players that are more or less informed but mostly just angry.
I’ve seen objective and fair arguments made. I’ve seen threads that just went " nerf warrior because i’m mad ". I’ve pretty much read it all.

No – i don’t believe you’re right – you’re saying that they should invest " fairly" but exactly what is and what is not a fair investment isn’t really up to you.

Here’s a thought – warriors had sprint and fast hands before other changes were made and nobody complained about that particular trait investment.

Overall the whole " nerf warrior " phenomenon is happening because too many bads are dying at the hands of a high prevalence profession. And they’re clogging the forums with negative QQ about how the big bad warriors clobbered them instead of maybe considering what’s wrong with their own particular classes if they feel so underpowered.

A 10/10 warrior player will have a VERY hard time and most likely lose to a 10/10 player of other classes.

Apathy.6430:

Harper.4173:

Also I’m glad that your " lfg experience " isn’t that bad – but it isn’t just marketing – I’ve personally gone through the " lfg monk / lfg tank " situation and don’t enjoy it one bit.

How about – to each his own?

Only really bad players in GW1 used “tanks”.

Honestly, GW1 was pretty much the perfect set up I’ve seen in an MMO. Damage builds had their place, support/disabling builds had their place, and healing was way more interactive than “spam big heals on tank” prevalent in most other MMOs. Plus, without there being a tank, everyone had to pay attention to what was going on.

And the part that made it even better? If you couldn’t find a healer, or damage, or whatever you needed…you could throw on a hero or hench and they would do an acceptable job (usually better than pugs).

Hell, you could even lone wolf pretty much the entire game. I did FoW hard mode with a group of 7…me plus six heroes.

You must not have played when permasins were a thing. Just saying.

Throwing in a healer or a hench is not an option in GW2. And neither is throwing in a pug since as we both know a hero or henc in GW1 was better than a pug.

Kyon.9735:

DuranArgith.1354:

Kyon.9735:

I already posted this.

To obtain something, something of equal value must be lost. It’s clear that Warriors are getting more than what they give. Let’s not talk about how “easy” it is to dodge “easily telegraphed moves” and put in L2P issues as an excuse.

10 points Defense Dogged March – 3 sec regen, 33% reduction to soft CCs
15 points Defense Adrenal Health – Level 3 Adrenaline is 360 HP healed
15 points Fast Hands – 5 second weapon swap cool down

So the basic needs of a warrior is X/X/15/X/15 which leaves them 40 points to play with.

These traits don’t deserve to be in Adept traits nor to be Minor traits because they’re too strong. Make warriors actually trait for these. They have to choose what they get, not get all these strong traits as “freebies” because they’re Minor traits.

Your 3 points:
Dogged march: warrior is a melee, means he needs the added movement impairment resistance so he isn’t kited continuously. The real offender is lemongrass + melandru that all other classes can use anyway, dont blame the warrior for that.

Adrenal health. The healing is per 3 seconds and assuming you have full adrenaline to get the effect. Current Meta is spending your adrenaline as soon as you have it so you trigger cleansing ire and set up a burst, not to sit on it. This trait is mostly useless in battle.

fast hands. not only this ability shouldnt even require 15 points, general consensus is it should have been integrated in the warrior class from the beginning, as a class feature.
At the very least it should only require 5 points and not 15.

What I am suggesting is to make the Minor traits into Major traits as they are too good just to be “freebies” when you go for higher traits. Warriors basically get a really good package by spending small trait points.

With 20 points into discipline, you can get a 33% reduction to soft CCs, more HP sustain (which by the way synergizes very well with Healing signet), and condition removal. The fact is regardless if you use your adrenaline or not, it’s still a win-win situation. If you don’t use it you regenerate HP, if you use it you cleanse conditions.

As for Fast Hands, what I am saying is that it’s too good to be a freebie. I don’t mind if they make it an adept trait as long as it is a Major trait. Warriors usually pair it with Warrior’s Sprint.

TL;DR – Warriors need to choose their traits. Make Adrenal Health either an Adept or Master Major trait so Warriors can’t have all 3 (Dogged March, Cleansing Ire, Adrenal Health). Make Fast Hands a Major Adept trait. Make them choose, Fast Hands or another trait (which is usually warrior’s sprint).

Your post summed up : " 15 points into a trait line is a freebie". " warriors should have it tougher because i don’t like it, make them choose ".

How is having both warrior’s sprint and fast hands a problem now?

Also – regarding warrior’s weakness – do people really not see the issue with lack of specialization efficiency?

Bombsaway.7198:

When you even have to ask the question is points to:

1) Rangers are in a bad spot
2) Warriors are in a ridiculous spot.

Buff the ranger. Nerf the warrior.

How about just buff the ranger and leave the class you have no idea what’s going on with alone? Thanks.

Congratulations – you got killed by a 1 trick pony that can’t do anything else and can’t support his team’s victory AT ALL considering the build he has is only viable for one thing : sniping people that aren’t paying attention.

His build / KS is fine – just be more aware – either of the incoming shot or of the fact that he had to make huge sacrifices to get to that result and in ALL other circumstances is practically a free kill.

Capes / Cloaks would be SO awesome.
Why aren’t they in the game yet?

Raine – if you think the combat is too simplistic that’s your opinion.
Personally I think you should consider the following : there is a good amount of interdependence in GW2’s combat as well – however players are not tied up in failure – which is a good thing.

If a group goes " every man for himself " – and they are good they might succeed.
If a group uses reflects, protective boons and might stacking while still being independent enough and good enough they will most likely succeed.

But if someone in the group fails / more fail – the group doesn’t crumble – since even ONE person is enough to keep things going and get his people back up.

I can’t remember ALL the times I’ve been left as the only one alive with the boss at 5-10 % HP and had to solo the last part.
You don’t get that in trinity games.

Also I’m glad that your " lfg experience " isn’t that bad – but it isn’t just marketing – I’ve personally gone through the " lfg monk / lfg tank " situation and don’t enjoy it one bit.

How about – to each his own?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Harper.4173:

Because you know better about class balance than the devs do.

You mentioned before that warriors don’t need protection – that’s because of their High HP, High armor and high regen. Don’t contradict yourself.

These being the devs that PLAY warrior, You dont find it interesting that the class the devs play also just happens to be the class with the most broken passive healing in the game, highest health, highest armor, insane mobility and very strong CC as well as blocks and immunities – which still allow them to heal and deal damage…

Sorry but an 8% nerf to a broken passive is nothing. If it was PROPERLY nerfed like 20-25% then sure i could understand the need to buff the Active but currently 8% nerf is the loss of like 38 healing per a second – You REALLY think that is a worthy nerf considering the active WILL be buffed by MUCH more than that to compensate…

I think my idea is a balanced one:

Passive: Nerf 25% – Reduced to 294 per a second
Active: Buff 50% – Increased to 4,900
Cool down: Increased by 5 seconds to 25seconds

I think that would be pretty balanced. Increase the Healing Power for it so that it can become very strong but mean that people will have to BUILD for it to be strong rather than just equip it and laugh at everyone elses poor regen.

Can you point to where i have contradicted myself? because i havent said they should have Protection – because they dont need it.

You think your idea is a balanced one – but it isn’t. Under its proposed form there would be NO REASON to take it.
Think about it. Would you take it ? You’re better off taking Healing Surge.

You said they don’t need protection because they have high HP and high armor and high regen yet in other threads you want these things taken away.

They mentioned they want to improve the active in order to make warriors use it more. They didn’t say HOW it will be improved – they’re not going to make it OP. They’re going to give warriors a REASON to activate it. And that in itself is the intended " nerf " that you people are asking for.

8% base nerf + the fact that warriors will be USING IT – which means it will be on COOLDOWN which means no passive regen.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Bearhugger.4326:

To be honest I think the active should be crappy with such a good passive.

I don’t get why the devs want to buff the active and nerf the passive when the whole point of the skill is the passive and you only use the active when you’re outplayed, and 3/4 of the time it doesn’t save you, even in PvE with the stupid mob AI.

I like my idea of having it do an AoE heal because it doesn’t increase warrior sustain, it only increase warrior support. So if you see a teammate dying you could sacrifice your signet passive to give him a little buff in health. And then increase the cooldown to like 30 or 40 seconds because using the signet should be a big deal and have consequences.

Because it requires NO skill and the Passive is FAR to strong for something that requires no healing power. I have more than 500Healing Power and i would need FOUR stacks of regen to be the same or just slightly better than a Signet that is equip and forget. Doesn’t need healing Power either because it is already brokenly strong.

Talonblaze.3175:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Why does it need to be buffed at all? afterall, its a 8% nerf and Warriors will refuse to use it unless it is insanely overpowered with a short cool down anyway…

8% isn’t all that much tbh. Still makes it better than the pre-buff state. I’ll still be using it in PvE and WvW since it suits my style and build. PvP is a different ball game though, never felt HS was that strong there. The Signet doesn’t need to be buffed per se, but it needs to become useful.

I meant they will refuse to use the active as you said 8% is nothing. So i don’t see why it SHOULD have the active buffed, i mean if the passive was given a 20-25% nerf then sure i would undertsand but 8% nerf is what 35-40Hps…that is nothing.

Because you know better about class balance than the devs do.

You mentioned before that warriors don’t need protection – that’s because of their High HP, High armor and high regen. Don’t contradict yourself.

Arganthium.5638:

1) It would take over 2500 Healing Power for some classes, like thief, to match warrior’s HPS with no Healing Power. Not to mention- the Healing Power coefficient for HealSig is actually higher than many if not most other classes as far as HPS goes.

2) Warriors are supposed to be mobile, they’re supposed to be versatile, they’re supposed to do high damage, they’re supposed to be tanky, they’re supposed to heal for a load, they’re supposed to clean conditions well, they’re supposed to spike very well… They seem to be “supposed” to do a lot of things very well, don’t they?

3) Just because other classes don’t work that way doesn’t mean that warrior should follow that rule (that being said, the original idea was pretty strange anyways). Though, as Ash said, Elixir S does more or less work that way, but that’s a very specific skill.

4) I can’t tell you how often I’ve found myself perma-stunned by warriors this week. The nerf to the weapon was minimal (especially given that hammer already had loads of stuff behind it anyways), and the fact that you can keep an opponent CC’d for as long as you can is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

And that is not a weakness of the warrior. In fact, warriors can specialize in just about anything they want, I don’t know where you’re getting this idea from. It’s just that warriors are able to be so good at everything at the same time that it’s more beneficial to choose not to specialize them and make them a king of all trades instead.

1) Thief doesn’t have strong healing because thief was never designed to OUTHEAL the damage he is dealt. Thief was designed and intended to AVOID TAKING DAMAGE THROUGH THE USE OF STEALTH – you know – the UNIQUE CLASS MECHANIC THAT MAKES THEM INVISIBLE.

2)And while they do a lot of things well they don’t do anything better than one class or another that is specifically built do do it better. That’s why as a warrior you will never solo roam as well as a mesmer , bunker as well as a guardian or dps as well as an ele.
You are at best going to do ok, but never as good as these other classes.

3)The fact that you’re trying to make up balance rules that only apply to ONE class proves to me how biased you are. You claim to want balance but everything you’ve come up with is summed up by " nerf warrior because i don’t like it" .

4)Learn to dodge telegraphed attacks. Learn to bring stun breakers. Learn to use blocks and blinds. I can’t help you to play better – sorry.

Also regarding warrior specialization – do you mean to say a warrior specialized for dps will outdps an ele that is specialized for dps? or a thief?

Or that a bunker warrior will outbunker a bunker guard?
Or that a solo-roam warrior in WvW will outperform a solo-roam mesmer?

Because if that’s what you’re saying I think I should stop considering your posts as serious.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Well, something clearly wrong with Anet then. Why should ONE class get such sustain without having to trait/build for it like EVERYONE else. Sorry but that is a rather poor excuse as to why it is so broken.

Everyone else has to trait and build for passive healing and such to be useful – why should the class with the HIGHEST armor, HIGHEST health and all the blocks, immunities and mobility should be allowed to have it for nothing…

It would be nerf to those that refuse or dont understand the need for Healing Power, i mean they are Warriors and never needed it before, unlike everyone else but for those that WANT it to be powerful they have the option they shouldnt just get the most broken passive healing in the game for the sake of being a warrior.

Lets not forget that the “nerf” it has gotten is ridiculously low and you can bet that the buff to the active will be MUCH higher than the 8% nerf to the passive.

Except that warriors don’t have above average blocking skills or invulnerabilities. What they don’t have is access to any form of damage mitigation – so yes – they need the passive regen.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

using the wiki, the thing that is full of issues in it self stating bugs and everything as proof that warrior should have the best mobility in the game? They already have the highest health, highest armor, highest regen and insane immunities and blocks…sure, why not mobility as well.

Insane immunities?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain – you take no damage from attacks – for 4 seconds – is that INSANE?
Mind you conditions still kill you while EP is active. It has a 60 second cooldown.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker_Stance – 8 seconds of condi clear – and during that time you can still be hit by physical damage.
Where is this insane amount you speak of?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

“seriously nerfed” Lol, to warriors anything other than buffs is considered a serious nerf. Sorry but 1-2 second stun EVERY 10 seconds is simply broken. The durations of the conditions are too high as well.

You do realize hammer has the MOST TELEGRAPHED attacks of all warrior weapons. You can EZMODE dodge all of it.
It IS a L2P issue.

Never switching.
Until another set becomes the fastest set to kill. Why change?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

They have no weakness. The problem is – neither the Devs nor Warriors actually see or accept this and just think its a “L2P” issue. The sad thing is – it would take a few changes to make them more balanced.

1) Healing Signet: Reduce Passive by 30%, Increase the active by 50% and increase how much it heals with more Healing Power. So if they WANT insane Regen, they can have it – but it will cost a bit with needing more Healing Power

2) Mobility: Several options here. The “best” i think would be to make it like Ride The Lightening, if they hit someone the cool down is halved (20seconds) if not it is doubled (40seconds) Savage Leap needs to be a higher cool down as well.

3) Immunities: I think that Healing Signet Passive should be disabled when they use immunity skills (not blocks though) or make it so they can’t attack like the Engineer skill.

4) Hammer – The Burst needs its cool down increased having a 1-2second stun EVERY 10 seconds is simply to much Fierce Blow needs its damage reduced a bit and the weakness reduced by 50% and Hammer Shock needs the Cripple reduced by 50%

It’s ArmageddonAsh with another wave of terrible ideas.

1)HS was designed to offer good sustain to warriors WHO DON’T SPEC FOR HEALING POWER. Second of all if you NERF THE PASSIVE THAT MUCH AND BUFF THE ACTIVE IT’LL JUST BECOME ANOTHER HEALING SURGE / MENDING. Ergo useless.

2)Warriors are supposed to be mobile. Look at :
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior
First thing it says is SPEED.

3)No other class works like that. What are you even saying.
4)Hammer was already severely nerfed. You want to take it out of the game completely ? at least ask for that.

All in all I hope you do realize how far off you are.

Warrior’s weakness is his inability to specialize and do as well as other classes in specific roles.

Raine.1394:

Except they weren’t addressing GW1 when they said “We keep hearing other MMO developers espousing the “holy trinity” of DPS/ heal/tank with such reverence, as if this is the most entertaining combat they have ever played.” They were addressing WoW, essentially.

Doing well by yourself comes at a cost, sadly. It means there will be no rich interdependence and humans derive a lot of value from that. However, I’m glad you are liking the current conception of combat—not all are.

I’m just pointing out that this " lfg tank / healer" thing IS a real issue not something they made up. It’s something that was even in their previous game.

Rich interdependence between humans? You have that in GW2. I love playing with a great group where everyone knows what/when to do it and get amazing clear times and great loot by being good.
But each of us is free to do his own thing, and doesn’t fail if the others do. In a sense we’re all doing well together – but each of us is doing well on his own – and it adds up to something great – an epic run.

You make mention with people not being happy with the way the game is right now – my question is this : Have you thought if GW2 is the game for you?
IF you want a game with very well defined roles and a trinity in place there are at LEAST a dozen successful MMOs you can play and enjoy that feeling that you’re missing.
GW2 is unique in the fact that it is the ONLY MMO OF ITS KIND. Why would you change it? For a minority of players that think they know better?
And they might even know better in terms of knowing what THEY want. But why change the game for them?

This is the wrong subforum.
The moral of the story is that that guy was bad and why did you even group up with him in the first place since he has NO IDEA WHAT HE WAS DOING.

As long as there are pets in the game rangers will always be in a terrible state.

Atherakhia.4086:

phaeris.7604:

You can’t give heavy tanks ranged damage. There is no risk reward.

Heavy tanks shouldn’t get better health regen than every other class in the game either. Mechanisms to gain back health should be on classes with low health pool/armour who have less natural defence.

Even in games like Team fortress 2 the sniper has low hps, but high damage. The heavy has alot of hps, and great damage, but is slow as a snail. The scout is medium damage but very fast. That’s balance!

This is an MMO… not tictactoe.

And you’re missing some key elements here…

Warrior has high health because it has no ways to mitigate incoming damage. It can only pop short invluns to avoid damage. Warrior has regen because there is no longevity with the way the Warrior is designed to mitigate damage (ie. Face Tank).

Guardian has low health because it has high protection up time to mitigate incoming damage. It has bursty heals because of the lower health pool. It needs high protectin uptime and heals because there is no longevity for melee classes in this game that are designed to tank damage and not avoid it. It has its fair share of invuln or emergency tools.

Are you starting to see the reason the 2 classes can do the same thing but in different ways? This isn’t rocket science here folks.

So very true

Raine.1394:

Harper.4173:

Raine.1394:

TChalla.7146:

Raine.1394:

TChalla.7146:

Raine.1394:

TChalla.7146:

IndigoSundown.5419:

There is strategy in WoW raids. The “script” is the strategy. Following the script is the tactics. What WoW raids lack, once the optimal strategy is known, is discovery and spontaneity. Once you’ve successfully completed encounter X, you’ll likely be doing it that way until you stop doing it completely. That same criticism applies to most MMO’s. Once encounter mechanics are known, you’re following a script.

Not much in the way of strategy if it’s handed to you by someone else. Then it’s just script reading. The only skill necessary would be reading comprehension.

And if you consider any GW2 encounter is is exactly the same. There is something that you should be doing at any given time. You either know the script or not. GW2 combat is completely scripted. How would I know this? Just read any thread on how to kill X. That should be fairly straightforward.

And how would adding the trinity do anything to stop the scriptedness of the combat again?

By the way, talking about the fact that GW2 uses position to avoid combat by not aggroing is rather humorous, since that very same thing constantly happened in WoW dungeons. “Don’t go there… we don’t want the trash mobs right now. Go this way instead.” Same thing… trinity or not.

Adding the trinity would change nothing here as I’m sure IndigoSundown would agree. It’s just that the notion that there is anything superior or different in this regard in the GW2 conception of combat is just silly.

If that is what you’re arguing, then it’s not part of the original topic. The original topic is about what it would be like if GW2 had the trinity. My answer is still the same as what I posted before. It would suck.

I’m in agreement that GW2’s mode of dungeon play is lackluster. It’s a DPS fest with little strategy apart from stand here and do this until this happens. But I’ll take what GW2 has before I go back to the trinity system… if for no other reason than having to wait for a healer or tank. In GW2, everyone is DPS. No waiting time.

EDIT: And the dodge mechanic, which I happen to like, even if I suck at it.

Yes, my point is simply that GW2 is scripted to the same extent you would say that trinity combat is scripted. It offers nothing different or new in this regard.

But at least a no trinity system doesn’t hold you back waiting for another player to be able to play the game. At least you’re still self-sufficient.

My position here is that you are not held back. The LFM Tank stuff is an urban legend created by Anet to sell their product. I have never once spammed chat for a tank or healer. I use the LFG tool in WoW. The tool does all the work and the wait has never been problematic. So, the the issue of being held back simply doesn’t arise—except of course in the Anet marketing.

Except you never played GW1. That was the game.
LFG tank. LFG healer.
You needed those – and I’m rather fond of the situation in which i can do well by myself.

We’ll simply ask for it over and over and maybe we’ll get it.
Also Fissure of Woe would be nice also. Really good areas from GW1 should make a comeback.

Raine.1394:

TChalla.7146:

Raine.1394:

TChalla.7146:

Raine.1394:

TChalla.7146:

IndigoSundown.5419:

There is strategy in WoW raids. The “script” is the strategy. Following the script is the tactics. What WoW raids lack, once the optimal strategy is known, is discovery and spontaneity. Once you’ve successfully completed encounter X, you’ll likely be doing it that way until you stop doing it completely. That same criticism applies to most MMO’s. Once encounter mechanics are known, you’re following a script.

Not much in the way of strategy if it’s handed to you by someone else. Then it’s just script reading. The only skill necessary would be reading comprehension.

And if you consider any GW2 encounter is is exactly the same. There is something that you should be doing at any given time. You either know the script or not. GW2 combat is completely scripted. How would I know this? Just read any thread on how to kill X. That should be fairly straightforward.

And how would adding the trinity do anything to stop the scriptedness of the combat again?

By the way, talking about the fact that GW2 uses position to avoid combat by not aggroing is rather humorous, since that very same thing constantly happened in WoW dungeons. “Don’t go there… we don’t want the trash mobs right now. Go this way instead.” Same thing… trinity or not.

Adding the trinity would change nothing here as I’m sure IndigoSundown would agree. It’s just that the notion that there is anything superior or different in this regard in the GW2 conception of combat is just silly.

If that is what you’re arguing, then it’s not part of the original topic. The original topic is about what it would be like if GW2 had the trinity. My answer is still the same as what I posted before. It would suck.

I’m in agreement that GW2’s mode of dungeon play is lackluster. It’s a DPS fest with little strategy apart from stand here and do this until this happens. But I’ll take what GW2 has before I go back to the trinity system… if for no other reason than having to wait for a healer or tank. In GW2, everyone is DPS. No waiting time.

EDIT: And the dodge mechanic, which I happen to like, even if I suck at it.

Yes, my point is simply that GW2 is scripted to the same extent you would say that trinity combat is scripted. It offers nothing different or new in this regard.

But at least a no trinity system doesn’t hold you back waiting for another player to be able to play the game. At least you’re still self-sufficient.

Elementalists have low hp and low armor because they are the highest damage class in the game. Also the highest AOE damage class in the game.

Your suggestion OP is terrible.

It could be interesting if HS gave protection on activation. Or some other combination of useful boons on top of the heal.
Or if it could be used to buff your next attacks / recharge weapon skills while still healing you with the active.

Kanenas.4906:

havoc.6814:

On topic: Warriors are fairly well balanced right now. The constant cries for nerfs by those who are unable to recognize this simple fact are just cries for help because those people can’t be bothered to learn to play properly. Anet has largely ignored, and will continue to ignore, the mass negativity that these people bring because, like the OP of this topic, the make such ridiculous suggestions and fabulous claims that the devs quite simply can’t take them seriously.

You seem to imagine a lot of things, even what Anet ignores and what does not. “Cries for help” lol.
I would like warrior to be 15k health because the time I am ready to bring them down their Forest Gump run skills and their invulnerabilities are out of CD, and I must chase them all over the map again. (the usual bad ones, I have my fair share of wins and defeats vs good warrior players).

havoc.6814:

I am right; you are wrong. It’s really that simple.

Anyway, this is my last reply to you. I have learned to stop arguing with people like you.
They bring me down to their level, and at low level they win by experience.

Actually if you could even get remotely close to where havoc is it would be a really good thing for you.

Noliver.1475:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Harper.4173:

He lacks specialization.

True. He is a jack of all trades. He does not specialize himself simply to the fact that he is good in everything.

He lacks the ability to support allies like other classes

So any shout, any banner or any physical skill is no support in any means?
Think again.

He lacks gimmick mechanics that allow for avoiding damage – protection, stealth, reflects, clones, etc.
So yes – he needs heavy armor + high HP pool + good regen to be able to be viable. Before the HS buff warriors were a complete joke in pvp. Do you remember that or did you casually discard it?

So 3sec. block, endure pain and berserker stance aren’t there to avoid damage?
Nuff said.

So yeah, warrior definitely needs clones and stealth.
Would be best if he could instacast 3 100b clones direct in the face of the enemy combined with unbreakable permastealth. That would really balance the warrior out.
Seriously now, I’m just wondering how stupid people can get, that they start to tell which unique skills from other classes the warrior doesn’t have. They even start to argue how well balanced the warrior is, ontop of their listings.

But yeah, this tactic is really clever. I’m just going to claim that the ranger will stay underpowered as long as he can’t use clones, deathshroud, adrenaline, weaponkits, permastealth and virtues all together. And FGS of course. Rangers don’t need attunements, though. We don’t want to be OP, right?

This basically

Whenever a nerf warrior thread comes there will always be people saying: Well theifs have stealth! Mes have clones, Ranger have pets etc…

You wear heavy armor, have unparallelled DPS/tank balance, tanks almost as good or better than the profession that is known for tanking, heals almost as good or better than the profession known for healing, runs almost as fast or faster than the profession known for mobility… Is that not enough?

Also I always see arguments like

well <profession> is better in <something> than us

Let me tell you… coming to be a close second or third in everything that you are not the best in is still considered overpowered.

If you cannot find 1~2 professions that are actually better in something than warriors than this whole game should be called “Warrior Wars”.

now can you tell me what is the warrior worst in doing comparing other professions? hard to find one right?

Its like saying what they have is not enough and they want more simply because other classes have them.

Warriors can only be satisfied when they are given permanent Invunurability as a trait that can be unlocked in 5 lvls.

your post is probably the worst and at the same time funnies i’ve ever read.

Warriors at the moment are outperformed in most aspects of the game by other classes. If you want them to not even be second or third best and always be 4th best or worse in all these aspects my question to you is : why even have the class? Why would people even play it?

Also – you seem not to understand what people have been explaining. The inability to do things as good as other classes means that in those situation warriors are WORSE than those classes.

Let’s all just stop spamming attention for the Op and let this thread die.

I don’t really care about the range attached to it but a pet is ALWAYS bad. You never want one in your party. Ever.
Shame ranger’s can’t opt out of pets.

Warlord.9074:

phaeris.7604:

Newsflash!, Every class who specs for high healing power has to give up a damage or defence stat.

Also every class who specs for dps has to give up a defence stat.

Except the warrior!

Thats wrong actually. Guardians don’t have to give up damage for defense either. Valor gives toughness/Critical damage. Valor it actually better than what warriors have toughness/healing power.

phaeris.7604:

unleashed.8679:

Just as a reminder:
They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). _

This is also hilarious, because they do have better ranged abilities than the ranger.

Warriors dont have 1500 range, and the #1 skill on the Ranger does 100% more damage than the warriors bow, and like 300% more damage than the warriors Rifle #1 Also rapid fire is stronger than the warriors volly on the rifle. none of your comments surprise me to be honest a player that doesn’t know these things doesn’t know how to play so obviously you get beat by warriors then come and make false statements on their forum and scream for nerfs.

Because false statements and crying for nerfs are the way to go on these forums.
Warrior rilfe is a JOKE except for kill shot which is ONLY GOOD FOR SITUATIONAL TROLL BUILDS.

You can NEVER WIN A 1 v 1 with rifle equipped. Ever.
Stop calling it OP. It’s just as OP as any other weapon when hitting a target that is completely oblivious you’re about to do it.
Also – Kill shot is DEAD EASY TO DODGE.

Marsares.2053:

Harper.4173:

Bombsaway.7198:

I Agree with Demandsynz the fundamental problem is warriors have things that a warrior should not have. They should not be great at range. They should not have heavy armor and be very mobile. (They should be the slowest to get into combat really but then hit hard and be able to take damage).

There is a reason in terms of game balance why other games split abilities that you find on a warrior. No other game would put so many toys on one toon. Why would GW2 be designed to be an exception?

Taken from the wiki :
Warriors are masters of martial skills. They rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive. They’re versatile in combat and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities. Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies. As a soldier profession, warriors wear heavy armor.

notice the word SPEED being first in that line of attributes that come with the class.
You can’t HIT HARD when other professions are so well geared towards disengaging/ confusing / running away if you lack mobility.
A slow, hard hitting, heavy damage taking class is just a damage sponge if it has no means to deliver that damage ( mobility and range) which is EXACTLY what you want to take away from the warrior.

Did you really even think this through?

Yeah, let’s take the Wiki as the gospel:

“Mesmers can create illusions to fight by their side, which they use to harass enemies with phantasms or mislead them with clones. Illusions can also be shattered, destroying them and causing secondary effects, such as confusion, a powerful condition which damages foes as they continue their assault in vain. Their unique attribute increases their Shredding Recharge Rate.”

Confusion got nerfed over and over again, is neglible unless you stack it immensely which only can be done these days via Runes of Perplexity and yet, ironically, other classes are much better at stacking it via those Runes than a Mesmer, and this includes Warriors who can stack it very fast.

In any case…. you want to have (1) speed, (2) strength, (3) toughness, and (4) heavy armour. Where’s the trade-off? I’m all for warriors having speed, but they shouldn’t have heavy defenses then. If you’re want to be a hard-hitting tank, you move slowly. If you want to be hard-hitting and have high mobility, you should have little defensive stats.

Simple as that. You can’t have your cake and eat it.

What warriors don’t have is a class mechanic like stealth/ clones or the ability to support allies.
We don’t have access to protection.
We can’t specialize as well as other classes.
That’s the trade-off.

I think you’re too caught up in the " tank / dps / healer " trinity view of things to realize that this does not apply here.
There was no " hard hitting slow tank " intention when warriors were designed.

phaeris.7604:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQFAUjkOFv5OyQMxBE0DNsK2iThAU9YO2w4A-jECBYfAUBAZmFRjteCtyiIaUXDT5iIq2mrIa1SBYxyI-w

So that’s something i threw together in 5 minutes. That without wvw stacks or wvw buffs.

4k attack, 100 percent crit damage, 50 percent crit chance,20k health, 3k armour.

All Berzerk gear. Look, I haven’t spent a single point in the power line and only 10 in the prec line, yet look at the damage off of that. With the ability to throw out killshots every 7 seconds.

But look at what stats i get if I try to do the same with say…a thief….

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQJAoYlUmKOncy9E/5Ey2jK0nIKuCOl2DAAAaJA-jECBYfBkKAIzsIas1ToVWERj6aYKXER12cFRrWKALWGB-w

Why look!, Oh yes, nice crit damage, good crit chance, good attack,..but oooh! the armour, only 2284, and only 14k health. It’s almost as if I had to sacrifice something in order to gain something in that template.

And look!, I can only do that huge combo every 45 seconds!. from point blank range, now imagine if I could do that from 1500….like say..killshot!.

But yeah, keep your blinkers on and keep claiming that having a huge base stat disparity yet still have the ability to access ranged weapons isn’t somehow ridiculously overpowered in an mmo. Being able to have huge damage/defence without putting any points into power or precision is the problem, no sacrifice is needed to get your stats.

Which is why you see so many warriors in WvW, it’s an easy forgiving class to play and spec.

Oh wow – your thief build.
Oh my – maybe part of the stat disparity comes form the fact that your THIEF CLASS DOES NOT REQUIRE HEALTH AND ARMOR TO SURVIVE SINCE ARENANET MADE THE CLASS WITH AN INNATE SURVIVAL MECHANISM – STEALTH.
Ever consider that?

If a thief could achieve the same numbers as the warrior example above and have STEALTH ON TOP OF THAT how balanced would that be?

Also – warriors having ranged weapons has never been brought up as an issue until you people ( the " nerf warrior " crowd came along and began spamming " nerf x or y about warrior " hoping something will stick).

phaeris.7604:

So were going off class descriptions now are we…..

Btw, ive just been watching a group of 3 rifle warriors, 1 guardian and 1 ele tear it up in wvw. It’s all you can do to avoid being hit by 14k killshots, and considering my toughness is 2800, and I have a meaty 15khps, yet my combos do 1/5 of their bar at a time, it is pretty ridiculous.

Even thief backstabs don’t hit me for that much.

Warriors can spec full berzerk, still have 22khps and 3k armour and lose nothing. This is the problem.

Killshot is just crazy in wvw at the moment, it’s a 1500 range death sentence in a zerg. Nothing at that range should hit for that much, especialy from a heavy armour class.

Except for the facts that :
1) Killshot is INCREDIBLY easy to dodge
2) Killshot leaves the warrior completely vulnerable as he channels it.
3) If you’re dying to a troll killshot build you’ve got yourself a L2P issue.

Xae Isareth.1364:

^ the problem is what if I don’t like being a healer?

The fights really aren’t proper in a trinity based system to be honest, neither in the logical nor mechanical sense. If I was the enemy, I would go straight for the healer or at least wipe a few squishy DPS, not the guy in bulky metal armor which I can barely land a scratch on.

In a mechanical sense you are pigeonholed into doing this one role. resulting in simplistic fights which you only need to think of one aspect of it. I don’t care about keeping up my DPS as a tank, I don’t care about health management as a DPS, because if I am, it means the other people aren’t doing their jobs properly.

Also, because the system is there, you need to base any and all encounters on it. Because its so rigid, you end up massively restricting what you can make.

This added onto the infamous problem of sometimes waiting longer in a queue than actually playing the game, I would go as far as to say that the trinity is the plague of MMORPGs. GW2 hasn’t come up with a perfect system to replace it, but I can understand that, its the first AAA MMO I played which has tried, and personally for me, just it not being there is a great improvement already.

Someone that gets it.
+1 to you sir.

Rehk.6574:

I can summarize the whole thing up right here…

It comes down to PURPOSE. What is YOUR purpose? In tackling this challenge? [be it a big boss, or a group of other players?] In a trinity or (ideally a trinity with sub trinities) Everyone has a unique role and purpose. We get to all feel like magical snowflakes of uniqueness because it creates the mentality of I’m THIS GUY….and I do THIS really well. It creates a feeling like the top picture

What we have now is this…where everyone is the same and capable of the same things, so everyone is just another body. The feeling, described by the bottom picture

Now…think about this for a second. Would you rather be a character in the above? or below? Just another body with a different face…watered down uniqueness, everyone is the dps, everyones the tank, everyones the healer, no one is the hero.

Or a situation where everyone IS there own hero at what they do?

Boom. Your minds have been blown.

Because mashing the same buttons and doing the same role as tank or healer make for such an interesting game.