My 2 cents, if Orr drops are up to par with Fractals then that is the place to go. It was already easy/medium difficulty and they made it easier and better drops. In the end I guess I’m ok with that, game didn’t really even need dungeons any way, just keep building up the open world.
As for the changes listed to non-fractal dungeons… very little good change it seems this month.
Blah, blah blah, I cant farm tokens, karma and so, blah, blah, blah – isnt it supposed to be a challenge?
Yes, but fun should be in there somewhere. My gut feels a lot of people are turned off by them and why not? Are they even fun? Perhaps you like the loot, but take that out, are they really that fun? They seem pretty generic to me.
Now one may like them, but I find their dungeons about the worst I’ve played of any mainstream mmo and I’m not exaggerating, feels like a totally different game when you go in them.
Magumma has been on fire, way more people in all zones then I have seen since I started in October.
If you’re not ready to start dodging, kiting, and timing cooldowns, you will die a lot.
It’s that “kiting” word that make gameplay ehhh. How about this, keep the mobs equal to their open world equivalents and just make more of them at once. Being in an instance should allow more.
Why be 1/2 empty, when you can be half full? No to nerfs. Yes to buffs. Bring the under-performers up to par. Devs have always had this choice, I guess it shows their cynical nature. Probably the pent up anger from the suits above them.
Robert thanks for the info and structure of how dungeons have been designed to date.
Since you’ve been the “owner” of the dungeons, have other team members questioned on how different the Open World plays vs Dungeons? To me this is a sizable issue. In the Open World hundreds of builds are viable, in Dungeons the difficulty is ramp up several times more and it starts to make you use cookie cutter builds, it seems to me.
You cannot make everyone happy with one difficulty level in dungeons. To many it’s too hard, to others it’s too easy. If you are the passionate dungeon player, I suggest you take a tip from DDO the leader in MMO dungeon design and over the years there they realized they needed several difficulties. It shipped with 3 there are now 6 per dungeon, one being epic which makes the dungeon scale to max level. Yes the gaming population can vary that much. I don’t want to say make the dungeon easier when there are others wanting more of the challenge, we need choice in both directions.
The open world in this game has been inviting enough to the point is has allowed two players on my end that rarely play online games like this, that said it could be a bit more difficult still. But putting them in a dungeon as it stands today… is pretty much a “Keep out, you aren’t invited” sign. And for me, how the mob’s hp ramps up in dungeons, doesn’t match the rest of the game at all, it’s awkward, like the story in GW2. Orr is a cakewalk for example vs the lowest dungeon difficulty experience in story mode.
To me the entire team has to look at the games as a whole, something doesn’t ring quite right with how dungeons stand today vs the rest of the game.
We need difficulty choices.
Honestly and I don’t want to be negative like this… But I’ll echo once again what has been said over and over. And my apologies to those who developed it, but it just didn’t work on pretty much every level.
The story, the missions and about everything involved with it, it just bad, really bad. Almost indescribably bad. If there had to be a story in GW2, it would have been better served with one top-notch story for all, we would have had quality and ease of progression with groups. GW1 is like a light year ahead of this effort. For an expansion unless you guys have overcome all the issues, I’d just go back to what worked in GW1.
Bullet points:
The writing. I can’t believe the how bad it is. I don’t know if I’ve seen worst prior. Scattered, non-sensible, no memorable lines, no memorable characters, everything feels rushed along, simply no magic here. Almost a case study on how not to.
How you are doing something one moment and the next thing just doesn’t join well at all. It’s like ok…. now I’m doing this.
The mission objectives, so much of it is scrap, too little effort/action/steps to move it along. Go here, press something or a couple things, takes 1 minute… on to the next story. Ehh.
The part where the group see’s the cut-scenes while talking, but then this secondary subset of dialog where the leader talks additionally to NPC’s and that doesn’t break to a cut-scene and leaves the others in the group a little short changed. All the NPC dialog should have stayed with the teams cut-scene view. Also choices on what to do next should have been on those same cut-scene screens. Bioware has showed us all eons ago how to do this.
The way cut-scenes are presented one person on one side, another on the other… That to me didn’t work out well. Boring. GW1 in game was better and industry wide that is common and little complaint from the players.
The voice acting… after how bad other parts are, it becomes sort of one of the better things, they can only do so much with what is given. But still not very good comparing it industry wide.
Running stories of different members within a group and how that works out. Too much repeating. Another reason why I would favor just a single story. I know a multi-branching story sounds sexy and sells. But executed like this, uhhh… be careful what you ask for, comes to mind.
The rewards pretty much stink, the XP could be a bit too high.
The only thing good really is that it’s something different and something to do. But woah boy…
make all AoE effects hit everyone in the given area in WWW. Friendly fire and all.
this is exactly what I suggested pages ago: insane boost to AoE AND add friendly fire, this will probably completely remove Zergs and finally give sense to everything.
In a proper and stable world that would be correct. However we are more the opposite. Griefing and crying would raise to new levels before unseen. And you know what happens once you see something…
This games skills haven’t been tweaked no where near as much as GW1’s were up to this point. To me all the skills besides the main #1 skill, needs to be more pronounced to add excitement and balance the opposing #‘s from there. To many skills give slight affects, that is somewhat drab I’d say.
(edited by Horrorscope.7632)
To me it’s one of those low-hanging fruit, no-brainers… that this is the reason why a first person view needs to exist, like pretty much every other mmo, whom had the option to quickly zoom in and out of.
If I had to compare it to something it’s like wearing goggles during a paint ball session in the summer. The darn things steam up on you, you are under attack and you are so impaired visually that you just start doing some random things in hope of success. It does trigger severe frustration, but you have to do what you have to do. But you’d give nearly anything to not have that temporary moment of frustration every so often.
its actually nice that the game can almost be played the way you want.
so many different kind of gamer can enjoy it and ditch many hours in their favorite activities.You realize that isn’t the case at all?
It means that if you enjoy WvW you are forced to do PvE, and if you enjoy PvE you are forced to do WvW? You can’t just do one and get 100%.
Its the total opposite of what you described.
Your answer is if you base it on map completion, you don’t have to do that to play and enjoy GW2.
I do about 25% of a map per evening, every often one map per day. I hit 80 with 31% complete playing whatever happened in front of me while clearing maps. I have all the cities still to do as well, which it seems that is a good chunk. Now I’m around 65% complete, started playing in Nov. (I have two alts 50 and 30 as well, doing maps in full)
Point is, there is going to be a lot of variance from player to player with how long will it take, just in this post it’s already really varied. To me the game world is plenty large and looking at the map there is a lot of room for expansion yet.
For many people that want to continue to play their 80 in PvE for prolong periods of time, you need mobs to keep it interesting
No, you need interesting mobs. And those risen aren’t interesting, they are annoying. And I don’t want to have to stand on the same spots for hours simply because they keep respawning at the rate I’m killing them. The last trip there (when I got my 100%) I was in a party of three. And at one point I simply told the party to run away, because we were getting nowhere. There was no DE, but we killed one Risen and either a new risen would spawn on the spot or one would spawn just outside our circle but join in the fun anyway.
I don’t even mind their knockdowns and pulls. As long as I’m not knocked down every step I take…
Please describe me an interesting mob? And some of examples of those in other maps?
But with your words, you just stroked my ego, I’m an amazing player I must reckon. I will surrender that Orr is different. By design. But I also state I truly feel it’s way over-exaggerated how dense, difficult and annoying it is. I have never seen a group of players ever have issues with mobs in Orr when not in an chain event. My server must be good to. I get pulled or knocked down every so often, not every time I take a breath, that to me has also been greatly over-exaggerated.
But no worries, there are changes coming that should help you. I’m ok either way.
As for standing in one spot for hours because of constant spawns… YOU CAN MOVE. I know of one place like what you say, but I could always just move on and leave it behind. Otherwise you’d see thousands of players stuck there… no? Somehow we’ve all got out of there.
(edited by Horrorscope.7632)
First person is nice for exploration (non-combat) and in this game jumping puzzles.
Also first person gives a sense of faster movement and usually is less taxing and gives the players a FPS boost.
I think it should be something you can zoom into, like many others of the genre.
So, if I got poisoned or was burning, I usually simply kept on running, knowing I had enough health to see it out. I didn’t enjoy that style of playing though. I prefer to simply wander around. Stand still and enjoy the view once in a while. Follow my nose from one node to the other, without having to fight every step of the way.
Even simply toning down the respawn rate of the risen there would help a lot. Also with keeping WP active.
But that is what makes this zone different. That said, there are thousands of pockets where you can find safe harbor on these maps still, to stop and enjoy the sites of hell. The density isn’t that thick on the entire island, in some places it is, by design of the meta chains.
For many people that want to continue to play their 80 in PvE for prolong periods of time, you need mobs to keep it interesting and the loot dropping at some reasonable rate. This game is stingy with loot, if you really thin it out, these players are going to really be tested as not to fall asleep.
(edited by Horrorscope.7632)
Probably should go to the GW Wiki and search “meta events” and read up some, it will help you understand. Several places in Orr are meant to be group areas, there are event chains that end up at each Cathedral. When/if the group beats those events, the area clears of baddies, a End Game Karma vendor appears and you can buy your exotic armor. I have never solo’d one myself, Grenth I can get somewhat close but not quite yet.
As for instant spawns, there are a couple places here and there that spit out dead from pod’s. Those will seem very fast, but you can avoid or run out of them if you want. They are also pretty fun with a little group. allowing you to slay a lot of baddies fast. That in turn can drop you some loot to gain gold. As much as I read about too fast spawns, it’s not bad to have some, otherwise the game could be a bit dry with no variation or big battles. I’m not a fan of open world pasture slaying that all the other mmo’s have. This game does a bit better job at the illusion.
When guesting comes in a week, look to guest at a higher pop server and see if you can get some help running these events in Orr. Is Orr harder then the other maps? Yes. But a lot of people like the other maps, but also know they can face-roll them. Is Orr overbearingly difficult? I don’t think so, just a bit more difficult than the rest of the game which may catch some off guard. Some places you have to make sure others are around to move forward, by design, these are GW2’s end game raids. The pic shown is meant for a group.
I’m like whatever, but I don’t get “there were no content changes” but then why did something download and not be used? Odd.
The first ever patch notes which came out a week after the release state:
May 1, 2005
- Fixed “cancel” button when setting up guild matches
The name is the name of the lore. The game was not named over a function.
I totally disagree, GW1 was named over the function and talked to the heavens by the developers of GvG focus being the main feature.
except that GvG was not even in the GW1 when it was released. It’s a lore name. Have you actually read the lore?
Yes it was. Guild Halls came in later, but you could GvG from day one. I can prove it with a link if I have to.
The name is the name of the lore. The game was not named over a function.
I totally disagree, GW1 was named over the function and talked to the heavens by the developers of GvG focus being the main feature.
Never assume anything big will change, it works better that way.
But the thing that gets me is the revisionists history over Guild Wars. Guild Wars 1 focus prior to release was to be nothing short of Guild Wars GvG. PvE was in it to prepare you for PvP, that stated over and over.The lore about Guild Wars wasn’t anywhere to be found as to reflect back to the games name. The game was properly named from what was promised and what we expected. What happened was PvE content was still the biggest selling feature. That above is what happened since before GW 1’s release. I guess since GW2 didn’t focus heavily on Guilds this other explanation of lore had to be dropped on us, that was in no way the spirit of the original intent of GW1. ZERO.
(edited by Horrorscope.7632)
Yes. +11 more chars.
Wow, thanks for the education.
You may find it’s just cheaper to have a second pc, definitely will be more versatile.
PvE, it’s fun to fight a lot of mobs at once semi-often, I picture action mmo’s as ARPG’s with a 1rst/3rd person pov. Making a game where you are just a little bit stronger than a singular foe that you are up against often, makes for a very dry mmo experience. Been there…. fell asleep.
For some builds Guard/War they have the armor to chop up many at a time. However for an Ele/Necro/Mez they don’t. So they need to rely on AOE for that task. This is in question?
AOE is fun.
If the game needs different skills for PvE vs PvP please do that… in the name of fun for both modes. Don’t take away a fantasy gaming staple. Don’t be the action mmo that took away the action.
I also find this being discussed bizarre, the talk of “to aoe” or “not to aoe” should have been done years ago and the answer should have been “to aoe” and in the future any developer out there should conclude “to aoe” as well. You tweak things, yes. You don’t consider really taking away/nueteraizing AOE. AOE is a staple for several classes in this game, in this genre, it’s fun, what else needs be said?
Figure it out. This rethinking a truly core ideal is disturbing to me.
(edited by Horrorscope.7632)
messengers, toolbars, web browser add-ons, winamp or other music players, etc. are all junk that will slow your system down.
Yep close them, problem solved. But 64 bit with much more ram you can also find out that they don’t affect your fps much at all either.
For what the OP mentioned it seemed reasonable the FPS he was getting with his system.
Ron… who knows. I highly doubt this is shutting down any time soon.
Simple, the lower to the ground you are the perception of speed is greater and for me that makes it more fun. For example it seems the Norn’s move at a snails pace, they lumber.
Player since head start. Playing as much as I can each day, 8h+ like most people I know.
I hope you are well and independently wealthy. I on the other hand know not one person who plays anywhere near close to 8 hours a day. Just balancing it out.
Nope, I get by thats it, money is of no importance to me aslong as I have enough to not go hungry or without internet/PC. Currently unemployed, but even if I would work, 8h of play wouldnt be an issue.
8h = Work
2h = Eating, Keeping clean, stuff around the apartment, getting home from work.
8-10h = Gaming
4-6h = SleepingIt all fits within a 24h timeframe.
That’s too bad then.
If you cared about the game you would play it, not lurk on the forums.
Words are all you ex players are good for.You don’t have to play the game to care about it. I care about the genre and not having it derail more than it already has… so I post here to try and shine a light on the mistakes ArenaNet made in making their MMORPG… which I no longer play because of those.
Here’s a great place to talk about MMO’s overall, what the genre is doing wrong, where it needs to go etc.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/forum/51/The-Pub-at-MMORPGCOM.html
Those still playing still want more. We will continue to shine the light on their mistakes and our needs. You can stay certainly, but we can carry the torch for you as well.
(edited by Horrorscope.7632)
Player. I would like to say for those still playing, that once you are done with the game a short while after (handful of days) you would go pursue other things, then act only as a poster here. There are plenty of players carrying the “we need this” posts, that the current playing base can let the dev team know how things are going and what is needed, without ex’s piling on.
By staying it’s going to be too much negative, it doesn’t really enhance the game for those till playing. There is a time to hang it up and just move on. We’ve all been there with one game or another, show class, see yourself out.
You’re acting like the ex-players are just hanging around to bully the current players or to unburden themselves of whines and moans. While I’ve seen one or two posters actively hostile toward GW2, most of us are actually here because we care about the game and about ANet and about our guilds, etc.
I took the OP’s words as an ex-player not coming back “but the game simply isn’t for me.” sounds like someone done. Otherwise I think that should have been made clearer. If you are not coming back there is no need to care about the game or guilds within it. If you do plan on coming back, then to me you are a player. My words were for the player who is done but would stick around for a long period after quitting, sounds a bit vendetta’ish, rise above.
(edited by Horrorscope.7632)
Player since head start. Playing as much as I can each day, 8h+ like most people I know.
I hope you are well and independently wealthy. I on the other hand know not one person who plays anywhere near close to 8 hours a day. Just balancing it out.
For example I no longer play but I obviously bought the game and enjoy interacting with those on the forums… but the game simply isn’t for me.
It seems many folks are in this camp but there are many that aren’t as well.
So if you’re reading this… are you just a poster or a player?
Player. I would like to say for those still playing, that once you are done with the game a short while after (handful of days) you would go pursue other things, then act only as a poster here. There are plenty of players carrying the “we need this” posts, that the current playing base can let the dev team know how things are going and what is needed, without ex’s piling on.
By staying it’s going to be too much negative, it doesn’t really enhance the game for those still playing. There is a time to hang it up and just move on. We’ve all been there with one game or another, show class, see yourself out. You owe it to yourself to pursue more meaningful activities.
(edited by Horrorscope.7632)
Awesome sauce, thank you. This will allow us to do the “underflow” idea well enough. We’ll make sure the maps stay hopin with this tool, somewhere.
Strengthening the game world they have now, as stated can encompass nearly every aspect of the game itself and combat model can be one of those. It’s a very broad stroke.
You’re already extremely strong when you go and revisit the lower areas if you’re an 80 geared in exotics. .
If your a 30 doing 10-15, you are well ahead of the curve, no need to wait until 80.
Looks at skill bar, no abilities for reason, passion or love. Just doing really bad things on my bar. I feel controlled.
I vote no on this one, I am also more for steeper scaling, we are still too strong and it goes against intent.
Op has good points, but the general overall strengthening of the Open World could use more focus.
Things like, making all areas worth going back to even at level 80, underflow, where champions drop something every time, so it will be a point of player attraction, instead of ignore, it’s “lets go get’m”. Huge meta’s one runs once each day on a different map (aka a reason to go back to each map). Something to get us to go to different cities routinely. Perhaps cities have sales of some sort and rotate.
Where all area’s have a reason to go back to. Stronger downscaling, too strong even after downscaling. And many other things.
(edited by Horrorscope.7632)
Just wondering if this was in the patch notes?
Props to all the superheroes who chimed in with “lrn2play nub” Inspiring, original, and oh so helpful.
If the game has to be considerably less hard for some, then they need to have two types of servers. Because anything easier in the open world than it is now, would become an equal if not larger issue with another set of players, there are probably an equal base on each side complaining, too hard… no too easy. Can you ever make a game easy enough for the person who needs it? Can you ever make a game hard enough for the person who can handle the most?
No, but going outside of GW’s2 player base, into general mmo sense, GW’s 2 is known as a very casual friendly game as it is.
Yep save jugs to 80 by doing your daily. Buy 75 gems for ~1.5 gold to buy a Karma booster (+50%) and drink them all. Run a Orr meta and buy as much armor with karma as you can. Make gold by selling all your stuff on the TP first, then to vendors. To get exotic weapon and exotic upgrades on your exotic armor, think around 20-30 gold.
I’m not against it, but I also feel the 4 -elemetnals they can swich between each with their own loadout and benifits was actually ahead of the classes that can only switch 2 weapons. If I had a request it would be get rid of all the weapon swap cool downs.
Yes thier ability to swap between the elements is equal to other professions swapping weapons.
A possible fix would be to at least allow the elementalist eqiup it like the other pofessions ccanbut still lock out the swap during combat. This would at least reduce the swap time once out of combat
That sounds good, in fact I’d like you to be able to swap between say 4 different weapons sets (all classes) when out of combat. Perhaps take that even into utility/elite loadouts to.
I have and in Orr, it’s happened a couple of times, died horribly. I spawned at a Way Point and continued on, true story.
I get the gamers side of this about spawns and too many… But there is also the part where it could be too slow and too few and to me, at least when you do have a nice sized group, it’s kitten fun mowing down tons of baddies and not a boring one at a time, then another, swarms are good fun and good for loot.
Since it’s dynamic, yes you can get yourself caught in a bad spot once in a while, I’m not sure what the real issue is you died. If your space ship in asteroids goes boom, did you go to the Coin Op attendant and complain? Go mine 1 or 2 mithral deposits, costs covered.
It’s my choice to… I’m not stating he cannot state his as you are doing to me… he’s only seen 20%? I asked a question, no more, stand down.
No. You’re not stating an opinion, you’re blatantly accusing him of lying about how much he’s played.
And I’m asking you rather politely to please refrain from doing so, and to contribute something of value to this discussion.
Please, who are you? And I don’t even care if you were someone. I just find it hard ro believe, that is all to only be 20% done with multiple 80’s. That said it’s not impossible, just very improbably, no big. If I were calling anyone a liar, I’d just come out and say it, perhaps I’m calling exaggeration.
To another, I’m not simply talking map completion, just overall 25% as stated by OP. If it were map completion with several characters adding it all up (unique area’s) I’d also be very surprised it’s not way past 25%.
Finally, I do get some of the complaints but had no where near the troubles the OP has laid out. I personally did not find it that hard at least in the open world, in fact I’m not sure hard is a good word to use in any way describing open world.
(edited by Horrorscope.7632)
If you have seen what table top games fetch at Kickstarter, well lets put it this way… it’s amazing, as if the table top audience is bigger then video games. So many are 100%’s of percent over-funding, who has the time to learn and play so many?
Well, after playing several classes and level them up to level 80,
I think I am quitting GW2, not because I did everything in GW2 (I think I did 20-25% at most) but because I am effectively not allowed to access the rest of GW2 content due to the reasons I listed above and similar.
You got several classes to 80, but end with not seeing or doing much of GW’s 2, hmmm….
I still run into quests that I never saw before on many of my characters, and I’ve dumped almost 800 hours into this game now.
Please refrain from questioning his honesty.
It’s my choice to… I’m not stating he cannot state his as you are doing to me… he’s only seen 20%? I asked a question, no more, stand down.
Well, after playing several classes and level them up to level 80,
I think I am quitting GW2, not because I did everything in GW2 (I think I did 20-25% at most) but because I am effectively not allowed to access the rest of GW2 content due to the reasons I listed above and similar.
You got several classes to 80, but end with not seeing or doing much of GW’s 2, hmmm….
I’m not against it, but I also feel the 4 -elemetnals they can swich between each with their own loadout and benifits was actually ahead of the classes that can only switch 2 weapons. If I had a request it would be get rid of all the weapon swap cool downs.
Do you remember when the game is started and the areas had a lot of player? I want it back!
Posted by: Horrorscope.7632
Do you remember when Bobby Bouchaine showed up at halftime and the Mud Dogs won the Bourbon Bowl, do ya?
2016 – Yes to Underflow, No to Silo’s also known as dungeons.