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9 peoples reply to this topic.
Peoples are fine with rifle i suppose.
It must be me nad this 8 peoples more unable to play it,that’s the only my conclusion.
And this is sad , would be nice have the community of this class partecipate to bring this topic to the eyes of someone in the Anet.
May be reddit works better for it anyway.
I totally still play rifle, just see my signature, playing it or not it doesnt change that rifle needs more love.
Specificly, get into the levels that HoT power creep brought.
What I liked about the engi-farm? I had an application for my engineer. Well, in engineer parlance…back to the drawing board.
Engie’s problems aren’t in the design concept – they lie with having a massive amount of skills and traits that have been left behind with respect to the game’s evolution and power creep, or outright nerfed to make HoT choices/options more appealing.
If you are looking to be able to deliver near 30k dps by doing almost entirely auto attacks, engineer isn’t the profession for you. If you were looking for a profession with a very high skill ceiling, offered the highest amount of player flexibility/creativity, and demanded a high amount of player control/input and most importantly HoT (and the design philosophy that it was based on) was never released; then engie was the profession for you.
Except… we actually have a build for deal 30k with aa, power bomb engie, and you kittening know it.
Either way the change to turret basically means they are indeed switching the toolbelts somehow. The explanation they gave for the change was hard to believe. Most people don’t use turrets and those that do most likely value Overcharging them over the toolbelt. I mean, if you can’t overcharge now then there isn’t much point to keeping them anyway in most cases.
Not true. Surprise Shot was popular on power DPS builds because it basically converted a free utility slot into otherwise free DPS (Surprise Shot has no activation time, you just press it on recharge and damage happens… particularly if you have the Static Discharge trait). People would take the rifle turret purely for Surprise Shot and never drop the turret itself because even if they dropped the turret, overcharged it, and detonated it before Surprise Shot recharged, it was still a DPS drop over what their character would be otherwise doing.
Now, you can drop the turret, and then forget about it until it gets destroyed or it’s time to relocate.
The explanation does make sense. However, the fact that they’re did it now, in what might be the second-last balance patch before the expansion, is… suggestive. It might be that it’s part of the reason but not the whole reason.
You are right about it, yet i can’t help but feel Rifle Turret was the only one who got benefited from these changes, for example, Thumpher turret had a great overcharge skill, the only issue is that it was (and still is) locked behind a long ass cd recharge, these changes i bet just made Thumper Turret even less desired of what it was already.
The other one that i could think off that got benefited from this is the Rocket Turret, yet, i haven’t seen any sign of replacing the Rifle turret as a dps slot at all.
Rifle does needs, IMO, better traits and sinergies, i did publish a rifle build, that it took me to plat last season, but, the Elixirs where actually the stars on this build, and the access to ranged power damage was the only thing that made rifle a good choice over hammer.
I don’t even pick firearms, i don’t even bother to trait the rifle for his cd reduction, because tbh, the 10% more faster time casting is bs, you cant notice any change at all, if it really exists.
The rifle has good skills, give the rifle Traits that make worth to take the rifle, that’s the reason elixirs work perfectly in pvp escenarios, not worth it with raw stats, but take the alchemy trait and now those elixirs are worth it the slot.
We need something similar for the rifle.
I’ve yet to meet someone who even picks Scrapper traitline for the traits alone and not for the hammer.
My build would like a second opinion of this :P
Well, you are not wrong with the lackluster part, its arguably our most useless kit in the current moment.
Its a kit that trades the capacity of effectively selfheal you, at exchange of healing your allies, but it does an awful job with that, as the aa scales veeery low with healing power, and makes you rely a lot in water fields if you really wanna make a somewhat decent healing (implying you manage to hit your allies of course).
Medkit auto is very powerful. The community doesn’t know it. It’s the Medpack Drops that suck major kitten
I have to disagree, i have run magi stats and quickness uptime for make the AA as most as effective as possible, the AA cant recover bursts, wich totally force you to make use of your other helaing skills so your attempt to cleanse those bursts more faster, it might handle concistent AA’s, but its terrible against bursts, if it was that powerful as you state, i wouldn have the need of spent my own selfheal for heal my allies, wich, even when its not intended for that, it heals kitteng better than using an AA heal.
You know, if anything they should achieve with the next expansion, it shouldnt be about if power or condi is viable, it should be about in how many ways we can achieve viable condi or power builds with different setups.
That or a spec that put us in the support role.
The point is, does this changes matter overall?
Nobody gave a **** about the future of the turrets, as everyone already accepted they were a lame and a laughable choice, is it matter, to argue this changes, if people are gonna give a **** about them again in a month, and focus about kits again?
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Wonder if the turrets can survive tough, or if their damage is relevant, how much of it its from the bomb aa and how much its from the turrets?
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And not in the sense we got severely nerf or out of the meta, but in the sense that this patch did absolutely 0 changes to our meta builds, who would be able to theorycraft new stuff with this kitten.
Theres actually only 1 build that im thinking about trying, in pvp, related to the use of toolbelts as the primary burst of damage, and rocket turret was part of it.
But for anything else, this patch for us was so… empty.
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I suppose its a buff for rifle turret in raid? Or something?
Heck id even say the thumper turret one (and certainly the rocket turret one) is a nerf.
Even when they try to buff they nerf.
EDIT: Only buff that is worth anything here is the medkit drop change.
Good jobb. Surely worth the wait.
Its like they are progressing at glacial speed and still think engineer is HOT release scrapper status.
Not really, rifle will still be irrlevant in raids, we are still dependent to the use of bomb AA.
This balance patch did almost absoulutely 0 changes to our meta builds…
Truly, this is a buff to power engi, but these ghances are irrelevant on the other gamemodes, were turrets cant survive a vs for a decent amount of time
Im sure no one asked for that, turret changes was the least of our priorities.
Were TF is my gadgets buffs?
Were TF is my med kit buffs?
Were TF is my rifle buffs?
Regardless of the opinion with dh, for the sake of changing the meta, they will modify stuff, saying its fine its not enough for like make anet say, it doesnt have to be changed.
No, thats how you create a stale meta.
I did argument it could be a dps spec, but i didnt cross in my mind until now that it could be a support dps spec, like ps warrior for example, it doesnt have the best dps that warriors can pull out, but its so valuable due to the support it grants to the team, the dps only helps to reinforce his value.
I think something similar to the ps warrior could be bringed to us, in terms of the theme of course.
OP seems to be DH main, otherwise I can´t explain why he is complaining about unblockable and passive warrior skills, meanwhile DH has the most passive cancer kitten..
Im a main rifle engi, Warrior is definitely my biggest struggle in this current meta, and its not their projectile hate, i can live with that, its their passive and active immunity that doesnt let me do anything for severe moments while it regenerates all the damage i did before…
So annoying.
The function gyro only revives downed people, it doesnt work with people or npc’s that are completely dead, same thing happens to Toss Elixir R
Need more build options and a Anti-META.
there are anti-meta builds.
Anti-meta builds that dont get destroyed easily by the other builds surrounding the guy you were meant to counter?
If they could counter a meta build while not being vulnerable to other meta builds, they would become a meta build and the build they counter would be kicked out of the meta.
im not saying not be vulnerable, i mean a build that is vulnerable to the other builds, but not so vulnerable at the point of being slaughtered
Need more build options and a Anti-META.
there are anti-meta builds.
Anti-meta builds that dont get destroyed easily by the other builds surrounding the guy you were meant to counter?
I think everyone always fears an awful AI spec. I don’t think ANet would do that to us. I mean if they did it’d just be undeniable proof they’re either kittened or hate us. I’m with you on barricades/shields, when I just heard the name I was picturing Wall of Reflection type skills. Throw up a holographic barrier to protect the team, or augment a weapon with a holographic edge. Personally I was/am hoping for a healing + support spec, but to me holosmith sounds more like a more strait support spec. We’ll help the team by blocking attacks for them while augmenting the damage, and I’m ok with that.
I just really hope it’s not more personal sustain or strait DPS. We have those covered with Scrapper and Condi/power core Engi.
This spec still could go as a power dps spec, true we have that covered, but you have to admit it, its silly we have it covered just by a plain and single AA, when our class should be about complexity with a rewarding playstyle.
I actually wonder myself why they didnt make a buff to med kit a long time ago.
The community didnt care about the kit because being a healer was a nonexistent role back then?.
Thats the only opssibility i think of why engineers ignored the underwhelming state of this kit, it never hurt someones ass at the point of yell “nerf it to oblivion!!” like they did with turrets, this kit simply never got the love it deserved a long time ago…
My dream of being a support engineer would be acomplished, if this kit was worth the weight, the day it gets a buff directly or indirectly, and makes the kit workout, it would be peronsally my dreampatch.
How much i have to stare this warrior so i can damage him?
2 Wins equals 1 loss
Remember that guy who published the simplified rotation for the meta condi build?
I have been using his rotation for raids, and its so very effective, however.
I still scratch my head how the hell he reached 34-35K with the golem.
My best has been 31K, similar to your results Jerus, i have done the rotations exactly like the guy did, and i cant figure it out where the hell are those 4k missing.
Infusions?, is the geomancy sigil that important? those are the only 2 things im missing, yet, im quite shocked if these 2 little things provide the 4k im missing per second.
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I like to think it as 2 different paths people like to go for win power, both will do the job, but both are developed in different ways, requires different knowledge and a different type of experience.
Regardless of that, people select the one fits more to their style, magic or technology.
The mid term would be magitech, but theres not really a class that stands in mid term (Except asura golems wich are useless)
Well, it could have a fire centered theme too, we have many things related to burning and heat.
Idk about you guys, but i use the instant aoe placement option, it pretty much trhansforms the grenade skills into spamming them, just like the rest, you just have to put the cursor inw ehre you want to make it land.
So, if the manual aim thing bothers you, you could try the instant cast option.
is it that bad tough?, the rng is pretty much the type of field, the wall still makes the job of avoid the projectiles regardless of the outcome..
Yep, as the rest pointed out, we have access to thief’s wall or guardian’s wall thanks to that skill, Elixir u was a very unpopular choice plenty of patches ago, until recently it has seen some value on this skill.
So yeah, expect to see more of this, if the player its not playing meta scrapper.
I really wonder why people play online games.
I play games to have fun.
I play Engineer to have fun.
I coudnt give a stuff how much or how little dps Engineers have or how they compare to other classes, or how useless the skills are.
As long as playing the class provides entertainment , thats all that matters.
Remember you cant win an MMO.To some of us our enjoyment is greatly deminished by the shotty mechanics and traits that don’t synergize and lack of viable weapons… underwhelming damage etc…
We love what the class is, which is why we choose to play Engineer and are so passionate about seeing it improved.
+1
didnt the leak say that engi gonna be support class with water fields and light fields?
Really?, we dont have a lot of those fields already?
Inb4 we get a sword with healing skills lol
Normally i would complain about an hybrid range weapon since we have rifle for that already.
That said, it totally nails the style of engi if it we will use a sword, agreed with the melee/ranged mix.
That what i’m afraid of it, if it will be off-hand, it will have some power-creep support abilities that we didnt had before, otherwise, as i said in reddit, its doomed against the damage supremacy of pistol-offhand, no sinergy with pistol if it deals power damage, and it would have to be a big power creep if it tries to compete in condi damage.
Ivantreil.3092
If you haven’t seen the video or played a power engineer as of late the min max of power is based around the ones I noted. He was talking about doing the most damage with a power base. And Big ol’ Bomb is part of the bomb kit so if your not on the move sure it’s there and useful but the auto attack of bomb kit does more damage per second than the big ol bomb. For PvP I’m sure it’s more effective, but for doing straight power damage it’s not soo awesome outside of situational need for defiance bars and cc. Your power buffs the Orbital to always keep it on cooldown.
I would like to see more synergy with power otherwise it’s just condi from here on out.
Grenades aren’t as awesome for power builds, it’s a condition based kit.
Of course i saw the video, and of course i have played power engi in raids aswell.
I recognize that the current legit power skill options and the traits are not so good at all compared to the condi options as WP pointed out.
We should be actively using the grenade kit, our rifle/hammer and maybe a power gadget for deal power dps damage, not just sit in 1 kit and AA to death.
Argue whatever you want but that doesnt take out Orbital strike’s current state, his underwhelming dps is there, traited or not, and personally the bad thing its not the delay, neither the cd, its either the damage, or the casting time, if orbital was an instant cast with the delay, it would be a worthwile skill to use.
And again, the casting time would be worthwile if the damage was too.
Grenade kit its an hybrid kit if you havent noticed, pre-hot grenade kit was active because of his power damage, the damage its still there, its just that potentially, his condi version its better.
In pvp, grenades were meant as a power one, as the condi effect was (and still is) worthless, too much time the enemy had for cleanse the damage, it was jsut a little bonus the conditions back then.
Actually, orbital strike was a worthy dps skill back pre-hot, and a worthy combo finisher, the mortar trait was worthy back then… its jsut that the dps standards has raised thanks to HoT, it needs an update, simple as that.
But the kit in the tree is condi based yet stacks might (power)?
Might buffs condi too, not only power, so its not completely off putting yet that trait.
Seriously Mortar kit belt skill is the only power utility and it’s high enough damage for power that it’s a must have. .
…. WUT? Have you forgot Big ol’ bomb? the best toolbelt power based we have on kits?
Throw wrench? Grenade Barrage? hmm?.
And if i recall, Orbital strike is only useful for opening battles, after that, its a dps loss using it between rotations, i have not seen one soo long in pvp aswell.
What about transforming repetitive titles into ascended shards?
You wanna revert the changes?
Ok, make resistance die then.
All these condi reverts just yell to kill condi engies, when its a playstile where you kill them or you die, the condi build does more damage than the power version, in practice.
But eles and Warriors have cleansed me so much times that damage that its frustrating to be a condi engi.
Think on the colateral damage you will do to the other condi builds you dont see, for the sake of do something to the condi builds that you see in the meta.
This is my Scrapper open world build:
The build is expensive, but its so smooth and fun, both hammer and grenade kit second skill sinergize in cd, so you will always have a skill to play thanks to these 2 options, plenty of skills to play, and the aa fill its not so big.
The Elite skill its optional, no forced option, personally i see Elixir X as the most valuable one, but that’s up to you :P
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As someone mentioned, they look like the new type of utilities are traps.
I spoke with my guild about it, and we did tought these woudl be a type of traps that triggers boons/healing or any type of new support ability.
These ones will be traps oriented on defense and support.
Is there a video of the animation out there yet?
Nope, you will have to either do it or wait to someone publish the animations of the medium set, heavy is the only one who got a preview
Toolbelt spec: now toolbelt skills are based on the weapon skills equipped instead of the utilities, kits doesnt count on this.
#done
And this is the main reason i just play 1 ranked game, and don’t touch it for the rest of the day, loss of win, i jsut play nowadays for keep my plat rank and not lose rating by absence.
At the beginning when i was at gold rank, i played as many games as i wanted, because i was getting queued with other gold players aswell, now that i reached plat, the loss ratio is so punishing that i had to start to play pve in order to win gold…
1 game per day, or lose my plat rank, no other choice…
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4 ways:
The first option: Nerf half of blowtorch damage and stabilize it bringing such nerfed damage to buffing Dart Volley and Static Shot.
7K of DPS is lost just for not having this single mere skill, even if you used all your other meta dps skills, this single skill puts shield out of question, as its DPS loss its not worth it for what it offers, nerfing such dps demanding skill and putting the damage lost into the other pistol skills could stabilize the loss of dps, you would still loss dps, but not abismaly a lot, so the consideration of taking shield in scenarios where the shield utility could be used is open.
And for not making it crazy at pvp, it could be a pve change only.
The Second option: The infamous 3/4 slot swap.
Suggested a bunch of times already, but for good reason, we keep our most important DPS skill, and as the same what happened with the first option, the dps loss for bringing shield its not hurting as it is right now.
The Third option: Massive buffs to shield.
I’m not sure how this one would workout, but its an option, make the shield being able to counter and maybe make condi damage, improve the cc damage and such, could make shield a decent secondary option, like in the other scenarios, when dps its not the problem for the party.
The fourth option: Bring a new mainhand weapon that sastisifies the dps losses of P/S, or with this new weapon, bring shield and engie a different role to be played.
The new weapon would mostly be a power based one, for avoid pistol-off hand sinergies, this would make shield logically the best choice to pick with this new mainhand, and not necessarily has to be a damage weapon, it could be a new weapon focused on healing or in tanking instead, roles that totally sinergize and fit with shield off-hand.
Bonus option: A mix and match of the previous options i suggested before.
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Ranger has the best fit on this armor, being us the last one, hopefully they consider to expand this in the future
This thread makes me sad. I was considering rolling an Engi again and actually trying to make it work. I loved the class long time ago with all it’s toys but i really sucked at it and was never comfortable.
I main a Warrior now and was hoping for something more unique. Now I understand why I never see an Engi when playing through PvE.
Don’t be sad because as of currently Engineer has the Highest Condition Damage in the game which is why it is still useful in Raids for heavy condition damage.
The problem is for Engineer though is that it does not provide much options with gameplay style if players want to perform the peak damage output which once again is Engineer’s Condition Damage.
Power damage is lacking and the Scrapper Elite Spec did not do much with providing a new experience for Engineer compared to the other elite specs. Scrapper unique function was just adding the F button to have auto res and auto finisher.
Only way I see Engineer getting popular beyond the small amount of the community that see the unique potential for Engineer’s future gameplay and Elite Specs is to release a new Elite Spec that provides a new unique experience for Engineer that does not require them to depend so greatly on kits as Engineer depends on now.
Also, when Players play their character they want to play as something that actually use their Main Weapon most of the time but with Engineer 90% of gameplay for the best outcome in damage results is to depend on Kits.
A new spec focused on healing or boon support, that would be my dream… (i wanna be a medic with the med kit kitten)
Despite of how anti-engi looking has, ill wait for that veredict of if getting it or not, perhaps the dye slection and the animations make up for it.
Have you considerated take tool kit?, it has a decent damage skill, regardles of if power or condi, and has a trait that thelps a little more on it, 2 skills that can be worthwhile the use for survive, or cc, questionable toolbelt tough.