Guild Wars 2

Waffler.1257:

Quite funny to watch, but I can’t wait to get back to mid-tier fights where 5v5 to 10v10 fights are relatively common.

I hear ya there, brother.

Whoa, folks. You guys don’t think I understand how organized Zerg v. Zerg works? I sure do. It’s very easy. Follow a guy with a blue Dorito above his head. Disable targeting (who needs it, right?). Spam AoE’s/cleaves. Ta da!

I know exactly how it works. The whole purpose of my post was to point out that that particular play style doesn’t seem fun whatsoever. I don’t need explanations or commentaries. If that’s how you play the game to have fun, go for it. To each his own.

MomentofWeakness.1246:

NotInTheFace.6075:

Just wanted to say great fight last night in the very early morning for the SoS BL garrison to TC. Those superior arrow carts x5 were nasty. That 1 hour take was sure a great fight. Amazing coverage at that late at night. Keep up the great fights. Curious though, RE guild what is with the running in circles in EB with a larger group getting wiped by groups half your size. I must admit it is harder to collect bags while laughing, but has that strategy ever worked for you? Also is there a point to it that we are missing out on? Not trying to be mean but I was truly amused. =)

Not sure which [RE] you were fighting or how many but since you want to be insulting please watch this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S9E1W9dduk

We play our game all the time with a large group of militia or just with our guild, we don’t care just about PPT, we care about being better WvW players every day. I hope you cringe when you see me on the field.

I watched the first 1:15 minutes of the video and had to stop. The maker of the video didn’t even target one enemy during the zerg v zerg at the beginning. In other words, all he/she did was run forward and spam skills, ignoring everything else. He couldn’t even care less what the enemy players were even doing because he didn’t even target one of them!

How is that possibly any fun whatsoever?

Shadowskill.9852:

And keep it friendly. If I took what you said the wrong way then I’m sorry.

I’m trying to keep it friendly, but when you say things like this about my server-mates, I get “uneasy”:

Shadowskill.9852:

I got some good video of me killing you……..all them bags. Hope to see more of you before server change (Could always use the extra loot).

Shadowskill.9852:

Hey, more bags the better right? If you want some more solo stomping come hit me up latter. Gonna see if i can hit next months WvW kills off you alone. Peace

Shadowskill.9852:

Talk crap and now trying to look like the good guy. Just made another video of you getting stomped the first time i saw you this morning. Then the 10 min video of you running around hiding behind walls just trying your hardest to tag that wall.

Shadowskill.9852:

Just this morning on Crystal I killed 2 who tried to run but couldn’t (Ranger and Engie) , 1 (Mesmer) at a camp i was taking and the lone Guardian who stood his/her ground. Everyone else ran inside the towers. When I go onto Kain borderlands that hardly ever happens.

Trust me, If I see you i’ll heed the call.

My only issue is that you tend to boast a lot. As someone who does make videos (see my previous posts if you would like to view same), let me ask you a friendly question:

Did you ever run from a [FEAR] S/D thief North of Bay when you were about to lose 1v1?

Perhaps I have a surprise for you if your answer is anything but “yes.”

Shadowskill.9852:

Almost every tower, bridge and camp had at least 1 person there just chilling. As soon as i would run towards them they would run into the tower.

This certainly seems counter-intuitive, or (gasp!) hyperbolized. Why would one person stand outside a tower then run into it if he/she didn’t want to fight at all? Wouldn’t it make more sense to just stand inside it? Or, perhaps, fight a tad outside the tower and then run inside for protection? But, according to you, as soon as you’re seen, this person, who happens to be standing outside the tower for no apparent reason, runs inside before doing anything. It’s almost as if you’re trying to imply that everyone on CD is afraid of you. Gotta tell ya, cowboy, that seems a little stretched.

Shadowskill.9852:

So please don’t make it sound that everyone on crystal is ready to solo battle.

Please, re-read my post. I say nothing, absolutely nothing, about Crystal Desert, or imply what you are alleging here.

Shadowskill.9852:

Trust me, If I see you i’ll heed the call.

Here’s to hoping you will post that video soon so I can compare your toon with the P/D thief I had a fight with North of Bay a day or two ago. For my own curiosity, of course.

Shadowskill.9852:

Crystal, I still can’t believe that you have people who spend ALL DAY tagging the gate on EB. The sheer boredom with such a task blows my mind. I can’t complain to much with all the bags i keep getting, but still.

Honestly, the same can be said regarding Yak’s folks sitting ALL DAY on arrow carts and cannons inside towers and not coming out to fight a solo thief who /beckons them.

At least tagging the gate serves a purpose; the sheer boredom sitting on AC’s and cannons inside an uncontested tower blows my mind.

Altie.4571:

@ Lychon
Stop trolling!

Altie, I’m offended! I do not troll, I simply point out the obvious.

Couple shout outs:

To the bow/condition/bad kitten warrior in [Fist]: I usually find one enemy in a matchup that simply shines as knowing/using their class to the absolute fullest. You, my friend, are that person in this matchup, in my opinion. Ever consider transferring? ;P

To the D/P thief in [HoD]: your tenacity is both inspiring and annoying. I’m merely referencing your ability to not kill a single person yet keep multiple enemies busy trying to find you for minutes at a time.

I’ve had only a few duels where my enemies didn’t run to a tower or zerg. For those few of you, good show and I appreciate your willingness to actually fight. I certainly hope to run into each one of you again.

See ya on the battlefield.

Waffler.1257:

JakobGW.5730:

You weren’t just making that kitten up to be cool, were you?

I make kitten up all the time to be cool, its what all the cool people do.

What?? You just made that up. . .

;)

Regarding WvW:

Oddly enough, there is only one Mesmer I have dueled that I couldn’t beat. . . but he couldn’t beat me either. The thing is, a bunker Mesmer (and I use the word “bunker” here loosely) should never be able to kill a S/D thief. In order to beat you, the Mesmer has to be able to do some kind of burst to kill you.

Your abilities to move around the battle field and re-position yourself at any given time allows you to be patient and only strike when you know the Mesmer has no means of escape and has spent his burst.

A Mesmer’s burst will usually come just after a third clone arrives. He will pop Illusionary Leap, then Swap, followed by Blurred Frenzy. While in Blurred Frenzy he will finally shatter doing the maximum amount of damage to you. Here are tips I find useful:

1. Always have Shadow Return up. Always. This is a given, but you’d be surprised how many thieves don’t do this.
2. See #1. Always make sure your Shadow Return is far away from the Mesmer.
3. As soon as you become immobilized, hit Shadow Return. You’ve just kittened the Mesmer’s burst from Illusionary Leap. He can’t do it again for 12 seconds. It’s time to strike.
4. Stealth doesn’t help you much, because as soon as you un-stealth, the clones will be on your nuts quicker than human reaction. The best thing to do is always keep extreme distance between you and the Mesmer, while killing clones as they get close to you and further from the Mesmer.
5. Wait for the Mesmer to make a mistake and capitalize. You may not be able to kill him in one burst, but you’ll come close and put him on the defensive. Try to use that to your advantage.

Shadowskill.9852:

Its the little engineer asura ive been killing for the last several hours. Your the one that keeps coming to the gate (Tagging it) to stop us from using the wp. I got some good video of me killing you……..all them bags. Hope to see more of you before server change (Could always use the extra loot).

From,

(Pro) P/D Thief Kwangtungtiger

Shadowskill.9852

If you think that you can solo me then bring it (just more video footage and bags for me).

Once im done with the video i’ll send you the video so you can re-live all those great moments again.

Shadowskill.9852:

Just made another video of you getting stomped the first time i saw you this morning. Then the 10 min video of you running around hiding behind walls just trying your hardest to tag that wall.

I have been anxiously awaiting this video for some time now. . . I would like to compare your toon to a P/D thief I had a tussle with just north of Bay on one of the Borderlands this week.

You weren’t just making that kitten up to be cool, were you?

Splifferton.9874:

If anyone from either CD or Kain wants a GvG let me know contact me here or in-game.. We can set up a time and everything..

If you’re looking for 10v10 or something like that, my folks and I can’t give you that. We typically run 1-7 or so nightly. In any event, fights like that are not appealing to us anyways as they typically involve preplanned balls of Necros and Eles following hammer warriors and guardians rushing with several stacks of might into Mesmer veils while AoE’ing and cleaving. Just watch any video of GvG (if you can stand it) to see what I mean. That’s just not fun for us.

That said, if your guild would like exciting small-man skirmishes, we are always down for that. We don’t do pre-planned, but all you have to do is whisper me (this goes for anyone looking for fights, not just [Pro]) and I’ll tell you how many are running with me and where we’re at. If you’re running similar numbers and we find each other, let the fight begin! If you bring similar numbers, I do believe we can give you a run for your money.

Edit: We are [FEAR] and [TKVA] on Crystal Desert

My wife and I were on SoR for a time. The community is great but the zerging was unbearable.

On that note, why are folks congratulating a server for being number one in WvW? What is there to congratulate? Congratulates in a competitive field should be for accomplishing something competitively. In WvW, number 1 simply does not mean you’re the best competitively. It does not mean that you have accomplished something extraordinary through competition, or that you have somehow competed and finished in first place, or that you have showed superior skill against another opponent.

In WvW it only means that you have more people on the maps with better coverage. Nothing more. Boasting about that makes you look foolish.

Leorcyn.1063:

You don’t seem to realize the unpolished jewel you have in your hands.

Best post regarding WvW ever. If Anet takes anything from this thread, it should be this very simple, well spoken contention.

profgast.7816:

Thaaat said… if you guys really want to get more even number fights you should stop trying to withdraw, stealth, and then dogpile on overextending stragglers whenever people finally gather enough random people together to push. I mean sure it’s a completely valid strategy which works and all, but it’s not exactly the sign of wanting even fights ;-)

—that Orange Sylvari Guardian.

I can assure you that if I’m running with 3 or 4 of us and I see 3 – 5 enemies, we will engage. We don’t withdraw, stealth, then dogpile close to even numbers.

However, if we are running 3 or 4 strong and we see 8+ enemies (or a zerg) running straight for us (which is most of the time), our strategy really depends on the guild tags of the enemies who are approaching us. If we recognize the tags as formidable foes, we’ll string out the overzealous and dispatch them quickly making the odds more even. If, however, we recognize the tags as enemies that have not given us a challenge in the past, we’ll engage and take our chances even outnumbered 2:1.

That said, there are several nights when we’re only 3 strong causing havoc in the borderlands. Even if you’re running with just 2 friends just send me a whisper. I’m sure we’ll make it possible that we’ll find each other.

Grieve.1432:

Oh, and per usual there should be a fight night tonight, 6pm Server Time, on SBI BL at the usual location.

My folks don’t do pre-arranged fights – for reasons I’ve explained in my previous posts – but if any small groups between 3-6 or so would like a good open-field fight but don’t want to stand around waiting for duels, send me a whisper and I’ll give you our exact location and you can try to hunt us down!

Also, all the [TKVA] folks have promised to share cookies with any group who can actually beat us with even numbers.

Aye, I have no idea why the thread was closed. I even read several of the latest posts and I didn’t find one thing offensive – just some friendly trash talk that’s only healthy for a competitive environment. Maybe the moderator meant to close a different thread but mis-clicked?

Anyways, please see the final post of the closed thread if you wanna have some small, open-field fights tonight. (I don’t want to be infracted by a certain moderator for double posting into this new thread.)

See ya’ll on the battlefield!

Gonna make the same offer that I usually make every thread around this time of the week:

[FEAR] and [TKVA] will be roaming/causing havoc tonight in one of the borderlands. We enjoy a good fight, so if you have a skilled group of around 5 – 7 folks and would like a challenge more than PvDoor, then send me a whisper and I’ll tell you which BL we’re in and how many are with me. We don’t do pre-arranged fights, and we don’t discuss classes (only that by now you should know I’m the thief with a Mohawk); but I would request the name of your guild so we know for whom to look while we roam. Find us, or we’ll find you, and the fight begins with spikes for the losers!

P.S. Thanks to [Top] for playing with us a couple times, we enjoyed it immensely.

Thor.1756:

You can craft ascended backpieces. Zero fractal’ing required.

Do tell. I was under the impression that these recipes required a Vial of Condensed Mists Essence that only drops from in FOTM.

Gravy.7589:

Had some funs in SoS BL, once again running with Kiwi + pugs. At one point against a SoS zerg we had, what I would call a mock GvG battle just north of hero’s lodge, across the bridge. Both Zergs saw each other, stopped and applied blast finishers and charged in. We veiled twice and pretty much rolled over the SoS party. Many other battles around the map with both CD and SoS. Great open field fun. Good job Sojoo.

I actually saw this fight as a CD spectator from the bridge. It went exactly as described. My havoc trio did manage to entice a few stragglers away from both zergs at different times, but for the most part, both zergs moved like one tight blob of goo from one point to another.

vinceftw.5086:

Calsifer.6079:

vinceftw.5086:

CD: only fight when they’re outnumbering you, thief hitting keeps so we can’t spawn, thieves abusing food that roots you. Great guys. Why couldn’t you leave the tier instead of SBI who fights with honor?

CD only fights when we outnumber the enemy? You should’ve seen CDBL bay keep at around 4-5am server time. We definitely did not fight with number superiority. As for hitting hitting keeps, contesting keeps is a legit tactic and I don’t know why you wouldn’t do it.

Also, there’s no such thing as food that stuns you, you probably just got hit by basilisk venom.

It immobilized me and had the animation of the tree branches from Oakhearts. There was no Oakheart or any other mob near us.

/sigh

You should probably do some research before throwing “abusing” accusations and then following it up with insults. Some thieves, myself included, have racial abilities that we use to keep you from running from us. Look into it.

Xsorus.2507:

I fought that Mesmer you mentioned earlier in the thread, a couple times..Killed him and then he switched specs and we went at again, he tried to zerg me a few times when he failed to kill me hehe

I can assure you, Xsorus, that you two are talking about two different Mesmers. I’m not sure who you’re talking about. When did you duel this Mesmer and was he wearing a [FEAR] tag at the time?

I can vouch that killing you is almost impossible regardless, especially with your new bunker build. I watched your video and I don’t recall ever seeing your health drop below 50%, even against 3+ enemies. I tried dueling a bunker ranger in SPvP the other day and it was a stalemate, neither of us could kill the other. It would be fun, and a pleasure, to give you another shot with your new build. Send me a whisper sometime.

Ya’ll remember this guy from the last thread?

Reikou.7068:

Just thought I’d add some extra content to the thread.

A pretty typical SBI vs CD battle.
http://www.twitch.tv/ailesdelumiere/c/2286241

You can see more of this on my stream!

Because of his mouth, I decided to find him a couple of days ago to show him a real CD fight. He runs a gimmicky build and gets a good majority of his kills from complete surprise, whether his victim is running solo or attempting to take a camp. To his credit, he was able to catch me with his burst just one time but has failed to do so since.

My friends and I got a good laugh when I went toe to toe with him and he rage quit just before I could spike him, which is recorded at 13:04 at:

http://www.twitch.tv/ailesdelumiere/b/404214420

I gave him a dose of his own medicine today and then he called me a terrible name! I felt so bad, really I did. He was attempting to troll an open field fight between SOS and CD, as he usually does, and I decided to show him how trolling is properly done . . . to him. Anyways, you can hear what name he called me at 2:46 at

http://www.twitch.tv/ailesdelumiere/b/405058847

I was only trying to show him how to properly do what he was attempting to do himself. You can see him try to do the same thing to me at 2:22 while I was finishing an SOS player. Of course, he failed as usual.

He logged about 16 minutes after.

Marquiz.7625:

Because it wasn’t 3 to 1

Besides, points are not important to SoS anyway, so its easy for you to say that. While CD are squeezing out every point we can get to stay above SBI, so yeah, we will stay and clock our points thank you very much

This guy doesn’t speak for all of CD. If you want to fight in open field, send me a whisper any time between 7p.m. and 10p.m. central. I don’t do pre-arranged duels, but I will tell you how many are running with me and what borderland we’re in. Your job is to find us, or we find you, and the battle begins. We usually have on average around 5 total. We’ll typically engage even if the enemy has twice that number. So if you have close to that number and want some open field battles, let me know.

Points are kitten. We are looking for good fights, period. We are [FEAR] and [TKVA] and love a good skirmish. See you on the battlefield.

The Hunter.4516:

Marquiz.7625:

The Hunter.4516:

Yet again CD rely on Arrow carts to defend a tower and a camp..
Come out and fight guys please, you even outnumber us 3 to 1 on our own border come get your loooooot

Ermm, what is the point of capturing a Tower/Camp/Keep if people are just going to abandon it and come out to fight? If you are looking for fights, you should just go PVP

Why sit and hide like little girls when you outnumber us 3 to 1?

Come out and have some fun is all i am saying

Because fighting is for PvP and not WvW. Didn’t you read his post? lol

Frigid.6027:

Reikou.7068:

Just thought I’d add some extra content to the thread.

A pretty typical SBI vs CD battle.
http://www.twitch.tv/ailesdelumiere/c/2286241

You can see more of this on my stream!

thats not a 1v3

Agreed. It’s merely three 1v1’s back to back to back. You have to applaud his efforts, however, attempting to make the video more impressive than it really is.

Marquiz.7625:

JakobGW.5730:

Marquiz.7625:

The Hunter.4516:

Yet again CD rely on Arrow carts to defend a tower and a camp..
Come out and fight guys please, you even outnumber us 3 to 1 on our own border come get your loooooot

Ermm, what is the point of capturing a Tower/Camp/Keep if people are just going to abandon it and come out to fight? If you are looking for fights, you should just go PVP

Wait. . . Are you saying that you only WvW to kill NPC’s? If so, PVE is that way —-——>

Well, I guess the logic of waiting for you to call your zerg to come so that they don’t hit somewhere we don’t want them to hit is too complicated for you to understand

What?

I have two responses:

1. What does calling for a zerg have anything to do with what you said about going to PVP and not WvW if you just want fights?

2. I don’t zerg nor do I call for zergs. Ever.

Marquiz.7625:

The Hunter.4516:

Yet again CD rely on Arrow carts to defend a tower and a camp..
Come out and fight guys please, you even outnumber us 3 to 1 on our own border come get your loooooot

Ermm, what is the point of capturing a Tower/Camp/Keep if people are just going to abandon it and come out to fight? If you are looking for fights, you should just go PVP

Wait. . . Are you saying that you only WvW to kill NPC’s? If so, PVE is that way —-——>

The Hunter.4516:

Yet again CD rely on Arrow carts to defend a tower and a camp..
Come out and fight guys please, you even outnumber us 3 to 1 on our own border come get your loooooot

Trust me, every server does this. I couldn’t pay any SBI or SoS to fight me running solo this afternoon even when three SoS were shacked up in their tower.

To the SoS guardian (Human or Norn, I’m unsure which) from [QE]:

Every time we fight you show the absolute best mastery of the guardian class. Good show, man. Very good show. Any chance you’d transfer servers? =)

-from us in [FEAR] and [TKVA]

To the SoS mesmer commander in [AxE] who refuses to fight me 1v1 without either (1) using moa or (2) running and waiting for it to be off cooldown when you see my name, and then laughing when he uses it in our duels:

you may be laughing in-game, but I smile every time you use it because I know that’s the only way you can beat me. =) You look foolish, just fyi.

Agonoize.4021:

As i understood the guy that made the post said he was interested in RvR and WvW,
If your running with a organized guild you dont go left and right ganking people.
You stick with your leader, Providing Blaster finishers, Your elite skill, Regen’s, Some Stealth AoE,And stay alive the whole time without having to run away and back to regain your health.

This is why I said:

JakobGW.5730:

Though if it works for you, keep it up. Everyone plays the game differently.

For example, I run with an organized group of 3 – 7. We are always fighting outnumbered. Our job is to pick apart zergs (within reason) and essentially just cause havoc. If I’m running with a group of 3 and using your build, we’d be dead because blast finishers and “staying alive” just doesn’t cut it without actually killing someone.

However, when we engage a group and I’m able to down someone in 2 seconds or less, the minor hysteria that follows by the enemy group trying to rez or evaluate our strength after a quick kill usually tips the scales more in our favor.

I suppose if you’re always running with an organized guild of more than say 10, then sure, you’re build may be useful. But I certainly wouldn’t recommend your build to roamers in smaller groups.

Humorless.1573:

Including food and bloodlust stacks in any build is idiotic.

Throwing that into buildcraft gets you 17k hp, 2k power, under 37% crit and under 2700 armor.

I agree with the second part.

Also, in my opinion, you’re wasting those prescious ascended slot pieces on a build that may be able to last, but doesn’t effectively do what a thief is supposed to do: assassinate someone.

Though if it works for you, keep it up. Everyone plays the game differently.

Erawen.8217:

I have really enjoyed fighting SBI & CD these past few weeks. Our crew usually hangs in the BL, I hardly ever visit eb (except the other day as my Yak alter ego – that was a blast!! Yaks almost took SM! Almost…. lol). It is a breath of fresh air to be able to participate in smaller 5-8 man fights, and has really brought the fun back into the game for me. All we need now is jello or foam to up the anty!

I’m a little sad hockey playoffs are starting tonight because it seems like I always miss the [Fear] crew during the week! Hoping to run into y’all this weekend, and by that I mean with my fist! Mwhahahahaha!

We will be waiting! Although my wife and I will be out of town Saturday afternoon, maybe we’ll run into one other Saturday night or Sunday.

Looking forward to it. =)

Azure Prower.8701:

It’s not like you guys are even trying any more…

I, as well as many of my roaming buds, haven’t “tried” to add points to the board in several months. I can’t remember the last time I placed siege. A few months ago I gave all my siege (including over 50 or so superior pieces) to a commander friend who doesn’t even play much anymore. I will assist taking a tower or keep if it appears as though I’ll get some WXP, Karma or if I need to kill a champion for my daily.

The point is that posting these screenshots means nothing to probably over 70% of the WvW population now. Nobody that groups with me gives a kitten anymore and I get the feeling that a lot of people share the same feelings.

Regardless of that, we’re always looking for a good fight or a zerg to break up. =)

[FEAR] and [TKVA] 5-man roaming group causing havoc in SBI Borderlands. If you’re running a small roaming group come find us!

EDIT: We have 9 now.

EDIT: SBI we’re leaving Godslore now. You guys can have it. You don’t have to build any more trebs, arrow carts or catas. =)

For those curious, I again tested Improvisation last night to confirm my previous testing. I used only armor with divinity runes, a berserker trinket and a sword with no sigil. I put only enough points into DA to get one trait: Improvisation. I swung each time on the golem and only recorded non-crits. I hit the golem 20 times without holding a stolen item, and then I did the same thing after holding a stolen item.

No bundle: 640 641 587 620 627 642 629 585 631 614 616 628 601 626 588 600 605 596 619 603: Average: 614.9 per swing

Bundle: 592 590 587 630 643 587 619 613 623 603 640 642 587 627 616 612 586 614 598 586: Average 609.75 per swing

Obviously RNG plays a factor here, but I didn’t do any more tests because I’ve done this all before months ago. I was just confirming my previous research.

Conclusion: Improvisation does not increase the damage of the thief, only the bundle, if it even does that.

iNaddict.8021:

JakobGW.5730:

Interestingly enough I’ve received several PM’s regarding my spec and gear. So here it is:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.5|c.1g.h17.8.1g.h10|8.1g.h2.a.1g.h4|1p.71j.1g.71j.1n.71j.1g.71j.1p.71j.1g.71j|2t.0.2s.0.2t.0.1n.67.1g.67.cg.67|a3.u16b.0.0.u25b|39.7|59.q.5c.5b.5u|e

A short guide how to play the build can be found here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Video-S-D-D-P-solo-and-skirmishing/first#post1769267

Jakob, how do you fare without points in the defensive traits?i realize your video is a statement of your survivability, but video can be cut.. do you use the same traits for pve as well?

Your defenses are still there, just not very conventional. Here are a couple of examples:

No armor from Shadow Arts or health from Acrobatics –
You could have over 30k health and 3k armor but that doesn’t mean kitten if you are never hit. Infiltrator Srike is your defense here. Use it to pop quickly in a fight then pop out. You are the master of the battlefield. Use it to your advantage. Don’t let the enemy hit you. Once you master that, any amount of health above 15k or armor above 2200 becomes overkill.

No endurance on dodge means less evades -
Don’t under estimate the power of Flanking Strike. Its evade is practically the same as a dodge; it just happens to also do damage. Try to consider it as just another dodge. All you have to do is get used to its positioning.

No health regeneration from stealth –
First, see above regarding damage intake. Second, Withdraw is your defense here. Infiltrator Strike in and pop out when necessary. If you have to pop out due to damage, hit Withdraw and push yourself even further from the fight. Be patient and let the 15 second cooldown tick a bit. Infiltrator Strike back in when ready. Reset the fight if necessary. If you’re taking too much damage and you feel like you need a steady regen from stealth, you’re playing the build wrong.

I do very minimal PvE, but I’ve never had issues with the build using the above strategies.

Interestingly enough I’ve received several PM’s regarding my spec and gear. So here it is:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.5|c.1g.h17.8.1g.h10|8.1g.h2.a.1g.h4|1p.71j.1g.71j.1n.71j.1g.71j.1p.71j.1g.71j|2t.0.2s.0.2t.0.1n.67.1g.67.cg.67|a3.u16b.0.0.u25b|39.7|59.q.5c.5b.5u|e

A short guide how to play the build can be found here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Video-S-D-D-P-solo-and-skirmishing/first#post1769267

Sir Vincent III.1286:

…so, either I need Trickery so I won’t run out of Initiative or I’m simply keeping my initiative in reserve which defeats the purpose of spec-ing into Trickery in the first place.

Doesn’t make any sense to spec for Trickery when you’re not going to take advantage of max initiative and initiative regen.

One last post because it appears we’re not going to agree. With all due respect, your statements are why so many folks get tunnel-visioned into one aspect of playing. You think that initiative is only there to spend. But you’re not thinking outside the box. Think about a play style where initiative is not merely there to spend, but to keep. To you, and probably to a lot of players, this is counter-intuitive. To me, it’s a play style that Trickery embraces.

The idea behind Trickery is to keep your initiative high. Despite your statement, keeping your initiative in reserve does not defeat the line’s purpose. This is obviously demonstrated by Lead Attacks, a trait that is only beneficial if you have proper initiative management. Higher initiative means higher damage.

You think that the only way to “take advantage” of the high initiative is to spend it on skills. According to your statement, it doesn’t make sense to you to have high initiative and not take advantage of it. So to you, more initiative means only one thing: more skills to use.

But to me, more initiative means higher damage. When played correctly, it is possible that I can increase my damage by 45% once my target hits half-health. It’s a possibility that happens all the time with proper initiative management and regen. The exact opposite is true for DA. It happens all the time that you’re below 6 initiative once your target hits 50% because you don’t begin with as much initiative and you don’t have any regen. This means your damage is only increased by 30%. At the absolute most it can be increased by 45% if you wield a dagger main-hand and you have more than 6 initiative which is difficult to achieve in hectic WvW combat.

You asked me earlier in this thread why I chose Trickery for my play style. Hopefully I’ve explained it to you. I know it works, and it works well. I’ve attempted to show some good examples with my videos. I suppose they speak for themselves.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The only reason someone will spec for Trickery is when they like spamming their weapon skills, rather than tactically using each one. If you are using your weapon skills tactically, the base initiative of 12 points is more than enough, which no need to spec for Trickery. The bulk of the S/D dmg is really coming from Sword #1’s third strike, which means the rest of the weapon skills in the set are for utility. Some might find this boring but that’s what tactics is all about.

It’s funny you posted this. Your reason is the exact opposite why I spec Trickery. I don’t spam skills. Watch my video for just 2 minutes. You’ll see that most of my kills are after simply using a mere 6 initiative (mostly from C&D). That’s the strength of the line: not using initiative.

Also, please see the thread about skill coefficents and damage multipliers. I will link it if you can’t find it. There you will see that FS actually does MORE damage than the autoattack chain. I don’t know about you, but if I have to spend only 4 initiative for an unblockable boon strip, one second evade, and 9k damage, I’ll spend the 4 initiative. That, to me, doesn’t sound like merely a “utility.”

EDIT: Here, I’m going to post it anyways, just to make things easier for you. =)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Skill-Coefficients-for-all-the-Thief-weapons/first#post467096

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You just proved what I said to be true. Anyone spec-ing into Trickery is really only after the Initiative boost. With 25 in DA, your first Steals gives you a +20% dmg boost right off the bat because of Exposed Weakness and Improvisation. If I use my FS, my dmg doesn’t drop by 4%. When I use IS, my dmg doesn’t drop by 3% even if spec-ing into Trickery gives me a refund. When I use CnD, my dmg doesn’t drop by 6%, etc.

Without initiative regen, using too many skills will nerf your damage by 10% from First Strikes. Not only does DA not have the additional initiative to easily stay above the threshold of 6 initiative, but it also doesn’t have any initiative regen. When you use one C&D with ANY other skill, you’ve just nerfed your damage by 10% unless you have a good way of getting it back quickly. DA doesn’t have that ability. Trickery does.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

25 in DA also receives bonus from First Strikes and Executioner, so you’re only chip is Lead Attacks. Sure Lead Attacks grants you 15% dmg boost, but 25 in DA gives you 20% dmg boost (Exp Weak + Improv) on top of +150 Power and +15% condition duration (compare to 10/30/0/0/30 build) difference. Then add First Strikes and Executioner to the equation and you got a lot of dmg boost.

I’ve tested, and so have others, that Improv does NOT increase the damage of the thief, only the damage of the bundle:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Question-about-new-Improvisation

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Trickery is the same. If you are using S/D and think that you need more Initiatives, then what I’m suggesting is you’re better off with D/x that will definitely take advantage of the extra initiative. Otherwise, you’re either wasting Initiative on unnecessary weapon skills, or that extra Initiative just sits there and not contributing.

If you’re saying that unspent, extra initiative is useless, then you’re not paying attention to the Trickery line. Although the line has multiple purposes, one major one is the ability to regenerate initiative quickly. No other minor trait can give a damage bonus more so than Trickery. At full initiative, Lead Attacks can give you 15% damage increase. Thus, one way of taking advantage of the line is not by spending initiative on skills, which is what you are focusing on, but by conserving initiative on lower cost skills while regenerating initiative at a quicker rate.

When you combine Lead Attacks with First Strikes (10% damage when above 6 initiative) and Executioner (20% damage increase), you become a powerhouse at 50% health. So, the trick (no pun intended!) is to keep your initiative high by using less on skills and more on harder hitting, less costly abilities. This is where S/D shines.

Everyone knows that the #1 weapon chain by S/D is pretty powerful. By using it, you’re conserving initiative and dishing some good damage. FS, when used at the right time, can easily do 6k – 9k (watch my videos) for 4 initiative! That’s an awesome damage to initiative ratio. When I want to get in close to my target, it only costs me 3 initiative to do so; but when I combine IS + Steal, with Kleptomaniac, it costs me nothing.

Now, you could possibly argue that this type of play style can be done with D/x as well. And you would be right. But I can guarantee you that you do not have the mobility needed to fully take advantage of the conserved initiative damage increase with any D/x build because you have to spend so much more initiative to even get close to your target and not die.

Example: Using Shadow Shot for 4 initiative gets you close to your target but does HALF the damage as Flanking Strike, no evade, doesn’t strip a boon and is blockable. Not to mention you can’t get away without spending initiative because you don’t have Shadow Return. Thus you have to spend 9 initiative (7 if traited) just to get away/stealth (using the HS + BP combo) as you see in Yishis’s videos. By doing so, you’ve just nerfed your damage by 11% – 13% depending on traits. So what have you done? You’ve managed to hit your target for 4k and weaken your damage by up to 13%.

Let’s look at S/D: Using IS I do 3k damage to my target for 3 initiative. I can then using FS for 9k damage and then return to my original spot for 2 more initiative. Thus, I’ve nerfed my damage by 9% max but I’ve done close to 12k damage. If I add in a Mug, I’ll easily do 15k – 18k for 6 initiative!

Trickery with S/D just works and it works very well. I’ve been experimenting with it since November and I can tell you that it’s a very viable and effective way of playing the thief. People have different play styles, but for me, S/D is fun, and I enjoy the challenge of thinking the exact opposite of the majority of the thief population: use less skills for more damage!

Sir Vincent III.1286:

And if you need to put points into Trickery, then I guess S/D is not the right weapon set for your play style.

I run 10/30/0/0/30.

I can tell you that S/D definitely fits my play style. Ask my victims. =)

Alright, perhaps we don’t agree on the definition of “burst” then. lol

My simplified definition: burst damage is the ability to do large amounts of damage in a very short period of time.

I don’t care about initiative loss, baseline damage, auto attack chains, utility uses beyond the weapon set, etc. I only care whether or not my weapon set can dish a kitten ton of damage in a very short period of time. If it can, then I can do “burst damage.”

In my opinion, S/D can do simply that, and it can do it a lot better than some of your “burst damage” examples, such as SB and P/P.

Tulisin.6945:

Could you timestamp a specific situation in which you think S/D demonstrated burst capability? Perusing your video showed some excellent play, but no situation wherein S/D demonstrated burst capability on its own merits. Winning a fight does not demonstrate burst capability, nor does doing a lot of damage. Burst capability specifically points towards the ability to expend additional weapon resources to deal increased damage over a short timeframe. This is something P/P, D/P, D/D, and SB are capable of (although P/P’s burst is comparable to other weapon set’s sustained), but sword-based builds cannot do simply because the most powerful sword DPS skill, auto attack, is by nature a sustained capability.

I typically don’t like commenting on my own play, but because we appear to be having a civil discussion, I’ll discuss it. =)

I agree with two things you said: (1) winning doesn’t mean burst; and (2) burst is the ability to deal increased damage over short time.

I can guarantee you that I can kill faster than a thief with a short bow or duel pistols. I’m not sure why you think that a SB has burst and S/D doesn’t. I also kill a target around 3000 units away before a D/P, P/P or D/D could even get in range even when we both start the same distance away.

Any thief that can kill a target using C&D + steal + backstab, a S/D can equally kill using IS + steal + FS. This is typcially because the target’s health/defense is low enough that a simple 16k is enough to kill. The backstab thief could do 20k whereas the S/D thief does 18k. Both kill. Both use three abilities. Both kill in less than 2 seconds.

The Necro at 00:31 takes 19,600 damage in 2 seconds. The Engi at :43 takes 17,611 in 2 seconds. The Ranger at :55 takes 12,454 damage in less than 2 seconds and starts to run. The Necro at 1:29 takes 18,961 damage in 2 seconds. In one of my other videos a thief at 2:31 takes 13,593 damage and dies in one second, possibly less.

That, to me, is burst damage, and all while wielding a sword and a dagger using our agreed definition.

Tulisin.6945:

S/D doesn’t have any burst potential.

I completely disagree. I’ve demonstrated S/D’s burst potential in my videos. I recently made this one:

regarding some fights on my current matchup. I think you’ll see some S/D burst in that video. =)

I had to clear out some space on my hard drive yesterday so I thought I’d put together a little video of our match-up over the last few weeks. Hope you enjoy.

brickforlife.1364:

I know it’s pretty mediocre but I’ll die before I do dagger/pistol backstab)

In my opinion, S/D is much better than just “mediocre.” It’s an absolute fun weapon set to play and I hope you find a build that best suites your playstyle. =)

Running a small havoc group of around 5 or so? Find us [FEAR] & [TKVA] in SoS BL! We’re ready for the fight!