Guild Wars 2

There’s a blog post saying that some stuff is right on the horizon, that it would have been released for HoT, but that it needed some finessing. So apparently there’s some new stuff coming soon.

Personally I’m crossing my fingers that they decide to ditch the laser

Aye, I’m all for community training, that’s how you build a solid community. I guess I’d like to see that as the carrot, before the rewards plan is tried, since you’ll likely get more people who feel part of a team, rather than isolated part of the ktrain.

Cogbryn, I think you have to have a certain mentality to like defense. I work with fellow teammates on map to thwart the blob, and the reward is holding off the blob with a handful because we spent the entire day sussing out chokes, etc. Personally my reward is the trust of our GVG guilds, who will respond to a call out for defense, because they know they’ll get massive fights. That’s gratifying for both sides.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jayne.9251:

Well take a look at the forum and the hundreds of threads about any change. People love this game mode. So much so they are very vocal when things shift. That’s the core base, and, after three years, they’re still quite passionate about this mode.

If you add rewards, you get the constant map agro if things aren’t ktrain, instead of strategy. We saw it during season one. There was a great hope the tourney would bring in fresh blood, but in the end those folks just got their quotas and disappeared, never even bothering to learn the mechanics or be any meaningful contribution to the team.

Yeah they left when there were no more rewards. If WvW stayed rewarding for them a lot more might have stuck around. At that point they are pretty much forced to learn the mechanics and strategies or they become free loot bags for the rest of us. Sounds like a win win to me.

Naw. Those who mindlessly ktrain will continue to mindlessly ktrain without learning the mechanics. There’s an awful lot of lazy players out there who only care about the digital loot tables — which is so bizarre to me, lol, it’s just pixels on a screen. It doesn’t matter how long the rewards are there. We saw it in replicated season two and three for example — same deal, get the quest track rewards, disappear.

And if it did happen it will be a trade off of either become a loot bag or not get a reward. And guess what happens if they’re constantly loot bags and no rewards? They’ll get better? Nope. They’ll head back to pve-land.

Well take a look at the forum and the hundreds of threads about any change. People love this game mode. So much so they are very vocal when things shift. That’s the core base, and, after three years, they’re still quite passionate about this mode.

If you add rewards, you get the constant map agro if things aren’t ktrain, instead of strategy. We saw it during season one. There was a great hope the tourney would bring in fresh blood, but in the end those folks just got their quotas and disappeared, never even bothering to learn the mechanics or be any meaningful contribution to the team.

Grim West.3194:

Can’t have a war if there is nobody to fight.

There’s enough of a core wvw playerbase that it doesn’t need to be incentivized.

Nobody who loves this game mode cares much about the loot or they’d have quit years ago.

Big shiny rewards draw players focused on the loot train, with very little desire to learn map mechanics, team cooperation or community support. So they blob and never improve, because why would they if the loot keeps rolling in.

That, in itself, leads to the deterioration of the game mode.

Archon just tried the same.

That said, I’m EOTM afraid of increased rewards in WVW.

It’s marginally funny that this thread pops up the minute it stops being a loot trawl

Oh wow, will download this and see if it fixes the perma-freezes any time more than 15 players are in the same area.

sephiroth.4217:

Complaining about complaining is awsome. GJ OP

You’re complaining about the complaining about the complaining!

Gasp.

Wryscher.1432:

Jayne.9251:

Wryscher.1432:

Most the towers are to small for this. You fight with siege, which os sort of like fighting but not. Mostly you fight with line of sight not other people. Then one side breaks in and you have a short fight over the tower, both sides move on.

Which could explain why the new towers on the new map are so big.

It could be. Of course there is never anyone in them to fight, so i cant tell.

Once work eases up, I shall be there. You can come fight me!

skogkatt.7586:

the noble KITTENposters rebuffing complaints like they’re doing their rosary or something.

.

I have nothing to add, except to say this description is epic

I may steal it.

I guess I’m just saying “hang in there a bit longer.”

Yes but nobody seems to be listening when people respond and say the maps are empty because people are doing other things, and to wait a bit to see the full effect.

It could very well be that the new maps cause a permanent mass exodus. But one week after launch of an expansion I think is too early to claim utter failure.

In the meantime, look for bugs, things you’d like to change/could live with if tweaked (assuming the new maps are here to stay) and add to the dialogue.

The WvW community, god bless it, tends to freak out over any changes and takes a good long while before it adjusts.

Wryscher.1432:

Most the towers are to small for this. You fight with siege, which os sort of like fighting but not. Mostly you fight with line of sight not other people. Then one side breaks in and you have a short fight over the tower, both sides move on.

Which could explain why the new towers on the new map are so big.

Eh nobody’s playing on any tier at the moment — although players are just now starting to trickle back in.

Sidizen.9048:

Jayne.9251:

If you play in a constant blob, how on earth do you know if you’re improving your skill on your own, or just letting your team carry you? (Or rallybot)

I worded it badly. All I want is good fights and a server that isn’t dead like Borlis Pass. Never thought I’d say this, but I miss queues haha

Yes, but you don’t need a massive blob to find good fights.

Join a decent guild, organize with them, and then raid.

Better yet, solo roam and challenge yourself to 2v1s.

Then when you do join the blob, you’ll be a better player and add more to its victories.

Wow, that’s spectacular OP. Nicely done.

If you play in a constant blob, how on earth do you know if you’re improving your skill on your own, or just letting your team carry you? (Or rallybot)

zinkz.7045:

Things like ‘more defending’ are a total irrelevance if most players couldn’t care less about defending in the first place because the score is neither here nor there when the game mode is not fit for purpose due to those core issues.

There’s a lot of players who defend regardless of the score. It’s part of their favourite mode of play. I know this is the case for me — I like to do it, because it helps focus our guilds into big blowout fights. And if I can hold off the enemy long enough for our guys to arrive, then it becomes a more epic fight.

Angelyne.2936:

Dont forget that this maps are designed to long term, when guilds will have tactics and upgrades. all what they (we) need to do is shut down that idiot laser event (that, beside the fact it is perfectly irrelevent, made all map lagy and crash …).

Yes please. Get rid of the giant lasers and I’m happy with the map.

It’s just a learning curve to get used to the rest of it. It’s actually quite fun once you do.

I know we live in a world where everything is immediate and instant. Have some patience.

Found one that may help:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heavy_Stolen_Supplies_Bag

But there’s that word stolen in there, so may not work?

You might be able to find your heavy bags here?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Restoration_Refuge

Basically I’d imagine any level 80 centaur gives the same chance? Worth a try?

The only people currently unhappy with the changes are Tier 1 servers.

Incoming vocal vocal vocal minority.

The rest of the population seems to think it was a good move, even if it will take a while to fully materialize.

Lol people even believe each tier should remain stagnant, claiming they all have different styles.

That’s fine if folks want the same matches month after month. But don’t complain about it then.

Wvw was never meant to be stagnant. It was supposed to be an evolving entity, offering new challenges each week as servers shifted up and down.

Players themselves created this stalemate, and then spent the past three years kittening about it so much, that Anet had to step in.

BrickFurious.7169:

Chaba.5410:

BrickFurious.7169:

My post (which was me being facetious in case anyone didn’t pick up on it)

It’s all about the jumping puzzles, man!

I just had a great idea. Wait for it…a “jumping to conclusions” puzzle. Like, it’s a puzzle, but with a bunch of conclusions that you can jump to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choose_Your_Own_Adventure

ArchonWing.9480:

Snip.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

P: Well, WvW should have this and that. And some rewards, and stuff stuff stuff.
A: Alright! We can do that.
P: Wait, but I want to fight other players while doing this
A: You what?
P: Well, I didn’t think I had to tell you that I entered this game mode to go against players and not your AI.
A: But we’ve improved our AI. Just look at the new Maguuma Jungle zones. You’ll get a similar experience in WvW while you work for your specializations.
P: Yea, that’s nice and all, but the idea of going against an unpredictable human opponent is not the same. And we like to succeed by using our skill; we don’t want to win just because we played more to get something.
A: But what about the exploration?
P: What about the exploration? The map is revealed to begin with.
A: Oh, does that mean you want it so the map should be covered until you explore it?
P: NO, I want to make it so that I know where I’m going, being a strategic game mode and such.
A: Are you sure you’re not talking about PvP? We’re holding a tournament soon.
P: $#%@^$# Kittenkittenkitten
A: Well, are you going to buy gems?
P2: Anet plz let me and my 66 friends get into this full server. This is killing WvW
A: Ah, we see. So this server has not enough people. We can fix that.
P: About those fi…
P2: NOOOO! You’re supposed to take points like Anet intended. Stop violating my game mode.

P2 gets his 64 friends to zerg the thread, drowning out P

6 months later
A: We are proud to announce our new World vs World. Now players will have to explore the map so they can seek their enemies. But before that, they will have to gain abilities like jump mastery and climbing mastery. Doing so will require 1000 hero points which you can get in our new PvE zones!
P: We never asked for this:
F: Yes you did. I copy and pasted your entire post history and found 567 instances of progression and exploration
P: That’s out of context.
F: Stop whining! They put in all this work, and all you want to do is whine and be handed everything.
S: Yep, still the same game from 2 years ago. Glad I quit 4 years ago.

That was pure gold.

(I’m F aren’t I? lol)

We have a new prime minister!

Everyone should come celebrate .. on Piken! :P

As the worst unintentional thread derailer on the forum, let me get this back on topic.

I do think it’s a positive that WvW was mentioned and I do think that at the very least, it bodes well for some much-needed love and attention.

Who knows? Based on that posting, they may have something just around the corner ready for release (like a month), it just needed some final polish.

Can only hope that it’s something everyone goes crazy for, like gear salvaging was received.

Nedus.6952:

I’m not sure if people answering with “well, use AC mastery” “well, use stealth traps” “well, use more scouts” are either trolling, just inexperienced players or straight forward stupid guys (no offense, but really).

Absolutely. I’m a noob. :P

If you don’t invest in your community internally and expect to be propped up by an ever-revolving door of transfers, you can see how the law of diminishing returns would apply. A constant change of new bodies/guilds means everyone’s “new” and nobody works well together, because they’re not used to working together. So you wind up being less effective over time — and given the new server caps, that means you have to make due with less than you had in the past — you are not going to ever get back up to the steamrolling population of the past. It’s now about skillset, not endless population.

The smart thing to do is to train within. Offer clinics to new people, get everyone on the same page strategy-wise. Make the community feel cohesive — that’s what makes people invest and stay.

If you can’t be bothered to help others learn, then they likely won’t be bothered to stick around.

Eventually people settle in where they feel part of a community. Then the trickle of bodies dries up entirely.

It means more servers are filling with bodies, which will make EU very competitive and exciting.

Instead of, you know, just two servers.

Don’t think they raised the cap. Think it’s something else. Freezing and crashing with 30 enemy isn’t normal for my PC.

Pve event at center home BL seems to affect the freezes when active.

erKo.9586:

If anet brings us back 1 of the old maps so many players would return.
1 – EB
2- Homeborder(Old map)
3- New stupid map
4- New stupid map

Then i would return – also make the auto-loot work in WvW.

Lol this made me chuckle.

You do realize each server has a home border map eh? Or just one server gets it?

This is normal with a new expansion out. In fact, it was expected.

I’d say it’s good news for the health of EU wvw at least.

You can’t use any of the mastery stuff in wvw.

Mastery is from pve only.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Revert back to BL with quaggan lake. Delete EotM. Make the new BL a PvE map; or just trash it.

I hated those buggy little buggers.

Straegen.2938:

Chaba.5410:

That place would be full of players all standing around waiting to take turns fighting or just spectating the fights. That’s called the OS and is only a place for a certain type of player. I enjoy it personally, but I could never do that all the time.

Zerg and guild fights like rolling mostly flat terrain to fight in. Choke points end up becoming circle kittens that limit tactical movement. Prior to HoT, most major zerg fights were right outside south Bay or between Bay/Hills and Garri. In EBG they almost all rotate near or in SM in the open areas.

A side bonus of less distance between small objectives is that roamers and small teams skirmish more.

There are no significant benefits to the existing BL map in terms of improving WvW fights.

There’s a desert plateau above Bay by the last fire shrine that’s easily the same size as the old alpine Bay/Garri area. It might be even larger. It’s wide open.

Thought this has been around since launch?

Did it replace the kitten room?

Catalin.5341:

This event can easily be fixed by changing the following:
1) change announcement time from 10 minutes to 1 minute, this way only people that reacted fast enough get it
2) change the event time from 50 minutes to 10 minutes, this way organized groups get it first
3) make the laser attack only the gates and not touch the oil and the wall because right now the outpost tower gets all 3 damaged
4) reduce the damage by 70%

Or just make it optional, so it doesn’t feel like a chore.

Sich.7103:

it’s not about “don’t complain, bla bla bla”.
Plenty of people explain why there is some problem in WvW… They have explain, demonstrate… It’s not just complaining….
But other people who defend the new map only know to say “take time, wait, stop whinning…”…

Really glad I bought you that expansion now, lol.

Distaste.4801:

The absolute biggest failure of WvW is that it wasn’t designed with anything valuable to fight over. There needs to be a reason to fight, a reason to keep coming back, something that creates tension. No one cares about a buff, they want something tangible. I like RFOnlines RvR as they had something to fight over, the winner of the chip war got mining rights and could mine 8 hours until the next chip war. Mining provided upgrades. GW2 has nothing like that, you fight because it’s fun, but with no real reward it gets old and boring. After all this is a MMORPG and progression is the name of the game.

That’s an interesting concept — giving the winning map something material (but I’d be reluctant to incentivize it any more than that, toot toot ktrain). But giving it a bigger purpose — you can’t get T3 keep walls unless you control the mine, now that’s quite interesting. I like it. But I guess it’s already kind of like that now, with the timed upgrades to stronger keeps — you still fight for the supply camps, etc …

Incentivizing WvW is a delicate thing. If the rewards are too lucrative, you’ll have people flocking into the game mode without any desire to learn its mechanics or, worse, help their server out. It creates a zombie mass of people who only care about the shinies and subsequently creates chaos on map where teamwork used to be the key. And then the fights on map increase: “Why aren’t you taking SM? Why aren’t you taking SM?! WHY AREN’T YOU TAKING SM YOU STUPID IDIOT!!!”

Blah.

Progression tends to be more pve-based than wvw-based. Certainly there is progression in pvp, but in WvW, it’s more about the team, pushing the enemy out — that’s the “progression,” since nobody cares much anymore about rank/tier really. Besting another server with fewer people because you know you work well as a team is the reward, frankly. Smashing the enemy with fewer numbers is the rush.

And the more the population spreads out, the better it will be for every server, not just one tier.

Snorcha.7586:

they’ve had over 2 years to correct the problems with WvW population issues, not to mentiokittenllion suggestions, but they do NOTHING to fix it. So, most people have just moved on to a different game. It’s a shame, to me it’s GW2’s greatest asset, the developers obviously do not feel the same.

Um they created server population caps, specific to WVW, just recently too. However, it will take time to show any effect. It’s already shown some signs of working. Guess folks are too impatient.

@Svarty. I Would be fine if running the event generated some Uber temporary bloodlust. I think you’re right that it has potential to bring everyone in … The problem now is if the home team doesn’t control it, it nukes your keep. So it’s already become like a chore on my server than some extra added bonus.

Zoel.9154:

Would you find it better if it scaled similar to EB mosquitos?

Yeah I could probably live with that … It just seems to lag out the map tho.

And Mosquitos don’t bash down the keep door if it’s ignored.

Eh dunno. Not really a fan I guess.

Jana.6831:

Jayne.9251:

You dork. You should have come here.

That was the plan :|
I still have 1,8k gems though.

Well perhaps by the time you land, Piken will have re-emerged from the pve haze. Starting to show signs of life today …

Jana.6831:

displayname.8315:

Fingers crossed. Would love a reason to log in.

They could even leave the old servers in place for people who can’t accept reality. Playing on dead servers gets old fast. Gold/Silver/Bronze leagues is cool and all and maybe could still for work for tournaments.

I’m currently on a T1 server and this has got to be the worst server I’ve ever been on. Be careful what you wish for.

You dork. You should have come here.

Jim Hunter.6821:

coglin.1867:

Those same valleys and paths make for superb chke points to fight large forces. I see the new maps as much better at funneling players together for good fights.

That doesn’t make a good fight, it just reinforces the god awful pirate ship meta.

Naw it potentially can lead to some epic last-minute saves from inside keeps. Before it was break down outer gate, go directly to inner gate, do not pass go, collect $200 from dead Lord.

It will make guilds rethink how they surprise/attack/retreat.

Certainly if you have tunnel vision you’ll pirate ship and stand there waving at each other. But smarter guilds/players will find ways to surprise and utilize the new verticals.

Perhaps the portal bomb will make a massive comeback (go mesmers!).

Per the OP. I finally had a chance to play the map all day today. Only thing I really could do without was the laser show in the center. I mean if there’s not a rock show, I don’t want to see lasers and dry ice.

That aside, I think the rest of it is interesting. I know tons of people are protesting the size, and I agree, everything feels massive massive. But I’m wondering if that just isn’t a learning curve thing — that over time the big big towers will feel “normal” — right now they feel like keeps on their own, and subsequently the entire map feels huge.

However, it takes a long long time to break down a gate now, even with a decent blob at your back — so while the map has grown, you are now given more time to respond; instead of the insta-gibbed gate door down the minute you see white swords.

I’d like to see a human-interaction NPC for upgrades. Keep the upgrades free, but don’t reward the last player to keep their eyes open before they turn out the lights with unmanned upgrades. At the very least, force a team to talk to an NPC to upgrade.

Was surprised by the stealth stuff, I can see that being used strategically too. Very interesting.

The hardest thing most of us WvWers struggle with is change. It just means this game is much beloved. And after three years to have that kind of passion is a good thing. But I honestly feel the rest of the stuff is just experiential — that it will become “normal” with time and use. At least I hope so.

Yeah it’ll just take practise I’m sure. Just wanted to update that I’m bad at it at the moment for the OP