Guild Wars 2

When in doubt, please check posting history. It clears things up quickly and stops you from wasting your time.

Someone please send Gaile a big bottle of wine? This doesn’t appear to be a one glass day.

I love WvWers, but man, sometimes you guys drive me batty, lol.

Just reposting here in case you didn’t wade through the other thread:

John Corpening.9847:

Hello All,

There are a couple of reasons for the change to reset time. One is for the overall quality of the game. The last few years we have been careful to not disrupt the WvW reset time but this has at times made it difficult for our team to address issues during reset day. This change will give our team an extra day of the week that they can use to respond to issues that may occur with WvW or any other area of the game if it is necessary. In the early days we wanted reset to be during a weekday to ensure we had people available to monitor the game at reset time, but at this point we have seen the ongoing stability of World vs. World and resetting on a weekday is no longer necessary.

Another reason is the emergent gameplay that has come from reset. It has become one of the most exciting times for WvW and we would really love for more players to have the opportunity to experience it. We have many more players logging in on Saturday than on Friday which means with this change many more people will be available to experience the rush of claiming objectives for their world during reset.

However, given the concerns posted here we will be moving the Saturday reset to earlier in the day to give most players the majority of the day to enjoy the start of the new match. Immediately after launch the new time will be 11am PDT / 2pm EDT (6 pm UTC) for NA and 11am BST / 12 pm CEST (10 am UTC) for EU. Keep in mind that the following week with the end of Daylight Savings Time / Summer Time the reset times will be pushed even earlier to 10am PST/ 1pm EST and 10am GMT / 11am CET.

Thank you for your feedback. We realize that no time we pick is going to work for everyone but this change is going to benefit even more players overall while at the same time giving us a little more breathing room to improve the quality of the game during the week.

Thanks,
John

cillard.3986:

Jayne.9251:

Blah, no wonder the red names stay away.

Any single change results in mass protest.

Lack of change results in mass protest.

They can’t win.

While it is true that change will never make everyone happy, it is also true that extremely bad changes will make many people unhappy. This is an extremely bad change.

As far using this to justify why red names stay away, that is hardly fair. The very reason why people protest so much to begin with on an epic scale is that it is the only way to get them to pay attention to a game mode and community the continue to neglect.

So you’re justifying yelling and screaming as a means to get their attention?

Interesting.

Stonewall.6037:

If HoT eventually supports true GvG spaces, I would anticipate that GvG will be what mostly happens Friday night.

Love that idea, Friday night fight club.

No impact on end-week scores really, so no one can kvetch.

Proof that EU WvW really IS a Monty Python sketch

NeroBoron.7285:

Jayne.9251:

lol, we had a trapper thief top of SM last night for a loonnng time.

Four of us were getting downed by the poisons and he would remain invisible the entire time.

Then I put a stealth trap down, and patiently waited for his thief-ego to try to gank me.

He died fast.

Poor guy.

Poor guy? Not really.
I always handle them the same way^^ That’s the reason to always carry some reveal traps ;P

Naw, I felt badly because he was obviously enjoying trolling four vs 1 for a long time.

I ruined his fun.

I’m a big meanie.

Lol, that’s an exceptionally well-edited video.

And evil. So evil

Well done.

@Offair. The photo is just one example. I have played the bottom tiers in NA, too. It’s not just based on one singular tier/experience. I just used this current example because of the disparity in population in this current match, and the fact that we still are flipping it.

As I said, I could wind up hating it too. But I’m at least going to give it my best at learning to counter.

I saw the traps. My problem was even as fast as I dodged out, the poison was eating my HP. Even cleansing seemed to fail.

My little Deso friend: sorry, work was brutal I just came home and crashed. Hopefully I can catch you another day. Appreciate the offer.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

Jayne.9251:

Blah, no wonder the red names stay away.

Any single change results in mass protest.

Lack of change results in mass protest.

They can’t win.

And who’s fault is that?

They neglected WvW since launch, not us!
We’ve given them great ideas, but they implemented their own awful ideas instead.
Any red post will be met with much criticism now, even if it’s the best thing for WvW. We simply do not believe in Anet any more.

Naw, we have exhausted every single person they’ve sent out to “communicate” with us.

I still miss Habib, you big meanies.

ArchonWing.9480:

Jayne.9251:

ArchonWing.9480:

Jayne.9251:

Blah, no wonder the red names stay away.

Any single change results in mass protest.

Lack of change results in mass protest.

They can’t win.

Well, this change in seemingly a number of people’s eyes seems to be out of the blue. I don’t think I’ve witnessed anyone complaining about Friday being reset night. Now, some people might have that don’t post on the forums, but I think even in that scenario it could use explanation.

Just because people want change doesn’t mean any change is good. Also, consider people that weren’t complaining before that might have preferred or tolerated the status quo and said nothing about it until now.

You have to admit there’s an awful lot of freaking out that occurs (myself included) to any proposed change in the past three years before it’s even implemented.

I don’t really dispute that, and it’s possible proof that for whatever bad state WvW is in, the status quo still manages to satisfy some folks (that are still playing, like myself).

Still though I’m not really opposed to this change or many others but I’d just like to know what’s going on and why they thought it was a good idea. You have an idea, you should have to create an argument for why it’s a good idea. Now surely it’s not my game to decide what happens and if it’s because it was in their mood to do so, I’d probably settle for that. But explanations are still desired and this will impact people’s schedules so if they’re upset, I think it’s understandable.

I think that’s absolutely fair.

I just wish we would all couch our interaction this way. Not the typical knee-jerk, y’know?

Now this OP was well written. Well done.

ArchonWing.9480:

Jayne.9251:

Blah, no wonder the red names stay away.

Any single change results in mass protest.

Lack of change results in mass protest.

They can’t win.

Well, this change in seemingly a number of people’s eyes seems to be out of the blue. I don’t think I’ve witnessed anyone complaining about Friday being reset night. Now, some people might have that don’t post on the forums, but I think even in that scenario it could use explanation.

Just because people want change doesn’t mean any change is good. Also, consider people that weren’t complaining before that might have preferred or tolerated the status quo and said nothing about it until now.

You have to admit there’s an awful lot of freaking out that occurs (myself included) to any proposed change in the past three years before it’s even implemented.

wyther.8372:

Jayne.9251:

What server are you on by the way that you feel you’re so weak you cannot flip SM?

The question is not that it can’t be flipped, it is the amount of time one dominating servers holds it compared to another. This isn’t hard math. If one server has enough forces to hold it over 33% of the time during a matchup, then there will be imbalance. Especially, for the smallest server in the 3 server matchup as they will hold it significantly less. Since I can guarantee there is almost never an equal balance of holding SM on any tier and for lower tier servers this is vastly the case, the imbalance will be worse.

Look, they will put this in no matter what anyone says and in 3 months it will be gone as the WvW portion of the game will BLEED. No one likes to die to people they can’t see. People do not like dying and don’t stick around to die to a dominant server. Now a dominant server will have an extra boost. Yes, you can counter it, but every single boost given to a dominant server will mean more people stop playing WvW.

People are not encourage to enter a gameplay mode and stick with it when they have even less of a chance than before. This wouldn’t matter if it turns out to be only a small bonus. The small bonuses add up and with no real effective way to counter the issue. This WILL tip the balance of annoyance up to total frustration and people will leave the game…..the straw that breaks the camels back… so to speak. Whle it might not be that way to everyone, at this point, can ANET really afford to lose anyone in WvW since new games, with a WvW focus are less than 4 months out?

Versus the No.1 EU server with the most bodies. Note the red arrows.

This is during EU prime.

Blah, no wonder the red names stay away.

Any single change results in mass protest.

Lack of change results in mass protest.

They can’t win.

Straegen.2938:

The fix to the original problem should have been to allow all players on an AC to have full FoV when firing. That would mean to counter an AC, a siege team would build an AC. Instead we got a change that nerfs ACs so hard it makes defending only possible with superior numbers.

The fov caused the problem to begin with, not on the defensive side, but the exploiting on offense. If you alter the fov on ACs you need to consider how it will be used offensively, too.

MUDse.7623:

deso atm so we dont even need eotm ^^

Awesome!

I have to work this morning for six or so hours … will you be on about 9pm your time?

Add me regardless, we can practice vs each other.

MUDse.7623:

edit: if ur on eu just pm me ingame if ur server is another color in wvw we can meet in EoTM and then u can see what happens if u keep jumping in my pistolfield – IMO best counter. there is also stealth disrupter trap but u souldnt be needed to use it.also if i see u placing it then its just wasted.

What server are you on? I’d love to get some practice in …

meepeY.2867:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

meepeY.2867:

First and foremost, Disrupter Trap aka Reveal Trap is the biggest counter. Drop one on yourself and wait. A smart Ghost Thief however will use Shadow Trap, pop the Disrupter and then port away.

I have actually tried to use this trap against you once, but you never stepped into it. Instead an other thief, who got ganked by multiple players triggered it and died.
What do we learn? Don’t play perma stealth trapper, it gets “innocent” thieves killed :p

I think I remember seeing that happen. To be fair, it’s really obvious when you put it down ^^, I probably saw the box in your hand.

And this is why I run a distance away before I lay the trap …. and then patiently wait, lol.

P.S. Very nice advice on how to counter!

vespers.1759:

Oh you mean like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_jlkY5KR00

lmao

Yeah, lol, that was four of us last night top of SM. First time I went down I was so stunned at how quickly and how my cleanses seemed to not work at all, lol. Thankfully he could only do one at a time, so we just kept rezzing and trying to counter.

Then finally got tired of the trolling and dropped a stealth trap.

After that he died quickly.

Offair.2563:

Well thats my problem with it, people need to spend 15 badges plus some silver plus having supply plus hoping the thief will trigger it so he/she finally shows up during the fight. No other class mechanic requires all the stuff thats needed like this.

Edit: I am not bashing the thief class but just the combo of traps – condis – these runes and Anets way of “balance”.

Oh it was driving me crazy too. Was jaw-dropped over one guy managing to down all four of us (not all at the same time, one would rez the downed, etc) … it’s the perfect troll build.

But until I learn how to counter it more effectively on my class, guess I’m reliant on thief-gank mentality and stealth traps. New puzzle to figure out. Annoying one though.

lol, we had a trapper thief top of SM last night for a loonnng time.

Four of us were getting downed by the poisons and he would remain invisible the entire time.

Then I put a stealth trap down, and patiently waited for his thief-ego to try to gank me.

He died fast.

Poor guy.

I am the server mascot

Per the OP, I like the idea of a window showing who’s tagged up before you zone into a map. You don’t even need to know what they’re attacking, just a “who’s online” list — which technically you can do by adding your favourite commander to your friend’s list I guess….

I’d actually love to see a server-based Lion’s Arch. The rest of Tyria can be mega server.

You have to grind to level 60 on a F2P account to gain access to WvW. If the purpose is to hack and troll, that’s going to get old, fast.

vespers.1759:

Jayne.9251:

Have you tried the stealth fountain yet? Nope.

Have you been unable to flip SM during prime? Nope.

This feels like whining for the sake of whining.

I don’t need to cut off my arm to know it’s a bad idea and I don’t need to have my angus stretched wide open to know unlimited 2min stealth is an equally terrible one.

And this doesn’t even just apply to zergs. it also applies to gank squads that are already bad enough. prepare yourself because you’re going to be jumped… a lot.

That’s not nice to do to cows.

If it’s crap it’s crap. And you have reason to call out Anet.

But at least TRY the crap first?

Then you have an experiential means of criticizing.

I could wind up hating it too. Dunno. But going to give it a fair go first — and I’m going to be just that stubborn enough to learn how to counter and master it.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

The video says nothing about a special buff. Or did i missed something (if yes, which minute? – I just watched the part with the fountain at ~ 9 min). It seems to apply the usual stealth. The fountain itself has a cooldown, just like stealth skills have a cooldown. Nothing special there.

Hahahaha. You’re starting to be really funny now.

Can you recast the stealth from the fountain if you get revealed outside of SM?

Nope.

How is stealth revealed? By entering combat — per the wiki.

How do you get the stealth back again?

You have to run back to SM and run through the fountain.

So it’s like a buff. If you enter combat, you lose it.

That means if you get tagged by aoe, you enter combat and get revealed. That includes AC aoe, and other tools players have to distribute damage. Heck, I bet any of the class pulls would do it, too.

Sorry, I know you really really want to make this more powerful than it is, but that’s all there is to it.

I truly hope that helps this time.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

The wiki is wrong. Never seen somebody stealthing during combat? Do you even play the game?
And which facts are you talking about? Nobody says, you can’t take an undefended sm. You haven’t proved yet, to be able to flip sm with low numbers, regardless of how many ppl are defending it.

Oh dear me.

People go into stealth during combat because it’s a class skill.

The stealth from the fountain in SM is like a buff, it has a toggle on/off. You cannot recast it — you have to run back to get the buff if you lose it.

Sorry, I replied this one last time because it seems to be an understanding issue of how it functions. Hopefully that clears it up.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

It doesn’t matter, how much or big blobs are running arround, as long the don’t defend and upgrade sm. Which they obviousely didn’t. Maybe because they were busy fighting each other.

Also you are ticking for 260. You may be outnumbered on EB at this time, but most likely not in general. And the outnumbered buff doesn’t show, by how much you are outnumbered.

Y’know I heard rumour that the Internet breeds people who will argue regardless of facts presented to them.

Last time I’ll reply because apparently it’s going nowhere. You believe what you want to believe and remain stuck, instead of helping yourself and your server out.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Thanks for proving, that this change won’t affect balanced matchups.

Now go to T6 and try to flip this thing with your “havoc squad”. Keep in mind, a 40+ man blob will show up as soon you touch a wall or door. Good luck.

Did you not see the outmanned buff? I put a big red arrow over it to identify it.

How is that balanced?

Deso and JS are currently running 40-50 man blobs each on map. It’s why we’re, uh, outmanned.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Edit: You don’t get revealed if you are put into combat. You only get revealed if you deal dmg.

Dear me, you love to argue don’t you?

“Revealed is an effect applied when stealth is broken, for example by entering combat or exiting a Shadow Refuge circle prematurely. "

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

Doug.4930:

Any Combat is Insta-reveal is incorrect. Only if the person in stealth attacks an enemy will they be revealed, which as I explained above would be illogical to the extreme in most cases.

Aren’t you saying the same thing as me? You attack, you lose stealth. That’s what I said. Seems that’s what you’re saying too.

That means attacking anything — including doors, sentries, butterflies, other players.

And one guy is insta-revealed and gets aoe’d then the rest of his teammates magically appear because aoe puts a player into .. wait for it .. combat. Well I guess max five players per aoe, technically.

Today. Prime time. Havoc squad took it.

Ryu.5801:

Jayne.9251:

Ryu.5801:

1) My team takes SM. A single PU mesmer runs around perma stealth until righteous indignation times out then ports in a zerg and retakes SM. I want to know what you think is a reasonable counter to that which doesn’t involve wasting 10+ mins of 5+ players time searching for a player we only periodically see for half a second.

If a mesmer uses all of its stealth spells to avoid you, it times out after 56 seconds, leaving the mesmer vulnerable for another 8-10 seconds because of cooldowns, some much longer than that (which is a long time if you’re being chased).

Are you serious because I can’t tell? You think 8-10 seconds is enough to cover searching SM? The funniest part is that you think you can locate a mesmer just when they come out of stealth to chase them when they have 56 secs of invisible time which is enough to hide in just about any corner of SM.

Jayne.9251:

Most mesmers successfully flip objectives because people aren’t patient enough to count to 60.

What rubbish. The simple fact is that on an ongoing and consistent basis teams of 5-10 players are wasting 5-10+ mins purging 1 single PU mesmer in SM every time there is one hiding around.

Eh I’ve done this debate to death.

Bottom line, if you hate sweeping, don’t do it.

We sweep with two and usually find them in two minutes. Maybe it may be useful to make a mesmer and play it a while to see its weaknesses so you can be more efficient. There are actually set/limited places where a mesmer can hide in SM. Learn those and it’s not endless hide and seek.

Because I spend 90% of my time scouting and I see this as a cool new challenge to beat.

Ryu.5801:

1) My team takes SM. A single PU mesmer runs around perma stealth until righteous indignation times out then ports in a zerg and retakes SM. I want to know what you think is a reasonable counter to that which doesn’t involve wasting 10+ mins of 5+ players time searching for a player we only periodically see for half a second.

If a mesmer uses all of its stealth spells to avoid you, it times out after 56 seconds, leaving the mesmer vulnerable for another 8-10 seconds because of cooldowns, some much longer than that (which is a long time if you’re being chased).

Most mesmers successfully flip objectives because people aren’t patient enough to count to 60.

Doug.4930:

After reading some of the replies that are say that this idea isn’t that bad, I can conclude that their argument consists of:

SM is constantly getting flipped, so the chances of this terrible idea coming into play is negligible.

Even if this Idea (at best) is only active for a tiny amount of the match up, lets say 3 hours per week. (Lets face it, it will be more than that)Thats 3 hours of abuse and boredom before SM is flipped again. Why put in an idea that in the best case scenario will still have a negative impact on the game…?

What’s the argument against it, other than the stronger server will potentially abuse it, and SM will never be flipped … which we all know isn’t true, regardless the tier (some have even flipped it solo)?

ANY combat is insta-reveal.

Stop letting it defeat you before you even try it.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

So your server constantly flips sm, which is defended by 3-5-times of numbers and plenty of siege every single time? No? Not heavily defended? Well, just like i said, you don’t know, what i’m talking about.
And i’m still waiting for a reason, why this stealth fountain would be a good idea.

I listed several good reasons on the first page. It’s a new challenge.

And yep, SM is constantly flipped — even when we’re the bigger server, it gets flipped by other smaller servers. Augury Rock is particularly talented for ninja wall demolition at SM.

What server are you on by the way that you feel you’re so weak you cannot flip SM?

UmbraNoctis.1907:

The Piken-Deso-Jade-match is fairly close. Those server obviously don’t have a too big population gap, despite the big rank difference.
Other matches are not that close, and even if sm get flipped 2-3 times a week, most of the time it is fully upgraded, because one server is outnumbering the other two by such a large margin, that it is impossible to flip it. You don’t have to deal with this situation, but i have for about a 3/4 year now. You don’t know, what i’m talking about, but i know. Fully upgraded sm is not fun to play against, and this change will make it worse.

Hahhaha! You’re kidding right?

Half of SFR transferred to Deso, plus they got a boatload of new F2P players before the big SFR evacuation occurred. They easily outnumber every server out here by 3 to 1. More so at night.

And we STILL flip SM with a massive Deso blob on the map and the outmanned buff painfully up.

In fact, when I first got to EU I watched Pikeners go rampaging up to SM after we’d just been wiped out of Overlook by a massive SFR night blob. I yelled out in map “what? are you guys crazy?! We are outmanned!” They laughed. And then flipped SM. I have never doubted them since.

You shouldn’t doubt your server either.

So yep. I have had to deal with this. For 2-3 years.

Have you tried the stealth fountain yet? Nope.

Have you been unable to flip SM during prime? Nope.

This feels like whining for the sake of whining.

As I said, Piken is currently 10th vs the TOP server in EU. We STILL flip SM. You chose to ignore the fact that population is definitely different from top server to 10th server. You have indicated it’s not impossible for your server either.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

The main argument for why it’s bad is that it only benefits an already dominating server, making unbalanced matches even worse. Idk why this is so hard to understand.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

I have already soloed sm during prime time..

Idk why this is so hard to understand

UmbraNoctis.1907:

I have already soloed sm during prime time, how does this matter? It can be flipped easily if nobody defends it, but thats usually not the case.

I still haven’t seen an argument for this stealth fountain other than “don’t worry, it won’t be that bad” …

The main argument for why it’s bad is that “SM never flips” and gives an advantage to the bigger server.

Now you say you’ve soloed it.

Imagine what you can do with three more people vs people defending.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Rank says nothing. The difference in rating/population between Rank 1 and 10 is smaller than the difference between rank 16 and 17/18. Yet those server have to face each other over and over again
It is not always possible to flip sm frequently enough to prevent an upgrade. And if people have the chance to use it, they will. Why should they stop and “forget” about it?

Rank says nothing? Orly? Interesting. So you’re saying there’s little population difference between the top server and the 10th?

Did you not see me say I was also on the bottom server and flipped an upgraded SM with three other people in prime on NA too? ET was 22nd at the time I did it. It’s my second account.

Or is it just better to argue instead of actually doing?

meepeY.2867:

Its funny you say this because right now at this second, there’s a player running around our keep s, spamming siege weaponry and building them all. Wouldn’t be surprised if he moves on to other towers after he’s finished.
(Aurora Glade)

That’s going to be really exhausting refreshing all that.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

I can’t think of one single positive thing, this could have. In the best case it isn’t used at all. In the worst case a dominating server has an even easier time at rolling over his outnumbered opponents. You might not care, because you don’t have to deal with an upgraded sm too often. But there are server, which are heavily outnumbered almost every match for weeks, months or even a whole year. No need to try it, to know, it won’t have any positive influence.

We are currently 10th, facing the 1st and 6th-rank server this week.

We still flip SM. Often with the outmanned buff.

Heck, when I had an account on ET, I flipped SM with three others. (Yes, when it was in third-bottom, and yes, during “prime” NA).

I understand the worry. Give it a try first. My guess it will be a novelty that gets used constantly at first, then is forgotten about.

Were you on EB? Was there a fight going on in SM?

SM three-ways tend to give the entire map lag.

Scouts are already unrewarded. You don’t scout for the loot. .

I still think there’s panic over this before it’s tried. Even on smaller servers.

The incoming yelling and rage fits when inevitably several of the inviso-zerg stop to kill the sentry along the way, instantly revealing themselves … lol.

Shadey Dancer.2907:

+ 1 to everything said so far. My pet annoyance—the HP of the arrow carts. Were they made in China by forced labour, because they feel like they are made of tissue paper. Three or four hits from an ele and its good night ac. Trouble is, my posting this and knowing anet, if they did add some HP, they would go way overboard with the HP buff >>.

Superior ones last longer/can withstand hits.