Guild Wars 2

Slick Shoes should be ignitable with Blow Torch! that would rock.

I’m an idiot….meant Glue Shot…….dooh!

Tarasicodissa.7084:

As for the OP – I’m afraid your current situation cannot be helped. Since condi dmg plays important role in w1 (well, mostly just VG), it’s obvious that anyone looking for engis will be expecting condi builds, not power builds. Your situation becomes even worse considering you have no practical experience in raids and no (or very little) LI to ping to the group. I’d recommend that you make one of the most common builds instead (boonshare mes, ps war, healing druid or DPS ele). Even though you may not find the gameplay as enjoyable or you may perform better on your engi (because of the reasons I mentioned above), playing a common build will make it easier for you to find a group. People are already struggling to complete raids on their own, seeing new builds or styles of play can easily throw them off balance and make it even harder to just beat the encounters. You can have perfectly valid reasons for playing power engi, but very little portion of gw2 community would listen to reason.

Sadly that’s the truth and its not playing what you like but more playing what you HAVE TO, which just isn’t cool. I stopped raiding for that very reason. Maybe in future the mentality or builds will change but the way it is now its like telling a tank to come as healer even though they have no clue cuz that’s what everyone wants.

kdaddy.5431:

Joxer.6024:

kdaddy.5431:

So i just like to give a update,

I did a full wing 1 today VG/GOR?SAB and the comps went as.

VG= 2 necros, 2 mesmers, 2 ps warriors, 1 DH, 1 druid, 1 vanilla ranger, 1 ele

For gors we made some switches, Mostly same group 2 left

Gors= 1 dh, 1 rev, 2 ps warriors, 2 druids, 3 eles, 1 vanilla ranger

Sab= 1 dh, 1 rev, 2 ps warriors, 2 druids, 3 eles, 1 vanilla ranger

Not an Engi in sight…..I cry and die inside.

Yeah ive had a issue with the patch that made raids this way. This screen shot is of a group before the patch.

Obviously groups are gonna want to use the the comp that has the best chance for success but my goodness. Anet has made raids as dull as PvP. I mean they are literally taking away any form of skill away from the game and making it all build/comps and rotations.

Edit- I will add this because ive had many people say comments about raids being too hard for people like me. Ive complained about a Raid reward track in PvP and ive had people tell me to L2Raid if i want raid rewards. I just will leave that there so there ic clear evidence that i killed the bosses.

Wholly crap, is that 2 engi’s I see!!!??? WOW, now that’s one for the books. If only those days would come back. /sigh

Exciton.8942:

Joxer.6024:

kdaddy.5431:

So i just like to give a update,

I did a full wing 1 today VG/GOR?SAB and the comps went as.

VG= 2 necros, 2 mesmers, 2 ps warriors, 1 DH, 1 druid, 1 vanilla ranger, 1 ele

For gors we made some switches, Mostly same group 2 left

Gors= 1 dh, 1 rev, 2 ps warriors, 2 druids, 3 eles, 1 vanilla ranger

Sab= 1 dh, 1 rev, 2 ps warriors, 2 druids, 3 eles, 1 vanilla ranger

Not an Engi in sight…..I cry and die inside.

Yeah, engi is probably the least desired class currently in raid.

The meta condition build has good dps but simply has nothing special to bring on the table. All other classes have some special tricks of their own.

yea, been that way for months and really hope something changes. Game shouldn’t have a completely dead class, just not cool.

kdaddy.5431:

So i just like to give a update,

I did a full wing 1 today VG/GOR?SAB and the comps went as.

VG= 2 necros, 2 mesmers, 2 ps warriors, 1 DH, 1 druid, 1 vanilla ranger, 1 ele

For gors we made some switches, Mostly same group 2 left

Gors= 1 dh, 1 rev, 2 ps warriors, 2 druids, 3 eles, 1 vanilla ranger

Sab= 1 dh, 1 rev, 2 ps warriors, 2 druids, 3 eles, 1 vanilla ranger

Not an Engi in sight…..I cry and die inside.

“Overcharged Shot (thx stability from Flamethrower! <3) "

But it only works when you have FT out…..no?

Nokaru.7831:

Would you be interested in an easy-mode raid that does not provide a direct path to Legendary Armor? (Easy-mode meaning a similar experience to normal-mode, but with more forgiving mechanics)

Lol, go back many pages…..the answer is no. He wants the rewards but by doing an easy mode raid and therein lies all the disagreements.

Fluffy.1932:

The reason people ask for specific classes is because in this game it’s not just about the general role you’re filling. Everybody has secondary tasks are roles they fill in a fight. A dps class isn’t just there for dps. Warriors are not just there for buffs. Druids are not just there for heals. Chronos are not just there for tanking. Whether this is a good design or not I’m not going to voice an opinion or not.

Yes, I agree 100% with that as WOW was the same. As tank you had best be able to dish out some decent dps, and Blizz designed the classes to do such. Ranged as well would be better at holding trash with cc’s or kiting. So yea, I get all that and we do agree with the points on the most part. I do totally see why people ask for the groups they do, its just a shame that more class diversity isn’t available, that’s all.

In other games, WOW and SWTOR that I know for sure, they have whats called in the MMO world as the “holy trinity”, being a group has a tank, to hold aggro of the toughest mobs…a healer, to of course heal the group, and said tank…..and then your dps, damage dealers. Now, the role of dps many times is mixed with “ranged” and “melee”, and that’s for the different fight mechanics and such. Some fights you have to deal cc to the trash mobs while fighting the “big guy”, so a ranged dps with cc skill is very handy while the melee group beat face.
GW2 does not have this trinity, and that’s what was and is still a big draw for a lot of folks. Many have said that they don’t want it although with raids now its almost a given that its still there, just not as defined. In GW2 groups still look for a “tank”, only just highest toughness, no aggro mechanics here. They also look for healers and then support dps. So while not a cookie cutter look of the “trinity”, its there. But what is also different in this game is the builds and classes and the exclusion of them. Never have I seen a game where a class that was dps by design not viable for raids. Now, this is strictly from the community point of view and not game design, as any class is completely capable of doing the content. Its just that folks don’t want them, that’s all.
Hope that helps somewhat and maybe someone else can step in with more info on GW2 as I myself have only just come back to it (2 yrs now). Cheers!

It would be a tool, and having tools to help improve your class is always a good thing. I agree, DPS Meter no, but Combat log that shows heaps more, for sure. ESO has one and its really handy.

Ohoni.6057:

Yes, sure…I’m so sure that if we looked at the last pages one name won’t appear before all other poster, not even once talking about ACTUAL raid accessibility (which is the topic of the thread)

Look, if you haven’t noticed, I only address points being brought up, and answer questions put to me. If you want to talk ONLY about accessibility, then ONLY ask questions and make points about accessibility, and that’s all I’ll talk about in response. If you talk about topics that are tangentially related to raids and accessibility, then I’m likely to follow, but I never lead in that direction.

I get that I’m chatty, I tend to post long walls of text because I want what I say to be clear (even though it’s often misunderstood, ignored, or forgotten anyway), and I tend to respond to several people at once, but that doesn’t mean that I’m the only one who cares, just that I talk the most.

I just want to say that if or when we get tiered raid system, their rewards shouldn’t be the same at all.

You see what I mean?

With your second “quote” ,don’t just take part of the paragraph to try and support your argument. If you read and quote the WHOLE thing you will see that they do not agree with what you have said you would like. So yea, anyone can cut and paste an argument to help your own cause, just be sure and get it all and make it truthful.

Actually, in all fairness @Ohoni…..go make a new thread with what it is you are actually trying to make a point with or what you would like to see. I for one have forgotten some what and I think its lost in this one amongst all the other stuffs that people have gone on about. Accessibility has been one topic but boy has it strayed. So yea, “refresh” us all if you will, and lets see how valid it can be.

Fluffy.1932:

The ideal comp right now generally is 2 mesmers, 4 eles, 2 ps, and 2 druids. The ideal comp before the last balance patch was 1 mesmer, 1 rev, 4 eles, 2 ps, and 2 druids.

That’s the problem…..It should read as 1 tank/support, 1 dps/support, 4 dps, 2 dps/support/banners,etc. , 2 dps/heals.

Basically what I am trying to say is that the “4 eles” needs to be 4 dps, that’s all. And don’t say it can’t be done or whatever because it does get done, people have such a “meta mentality” that they can’t see past anything else.

Goldfox.5729:

Mother of.. this thread is still going !? What have I done …

AH YEA!! It was you!! All your fault mate. End it please….just please……

Oh Snapalope.1378:

Is this generation this casual or something that they think they deserve rewards for stuff they can’t complete?

Yup, same ones that want everyone on sports team to get a trophy, not just the “winners” and the same generation that now has graduation for each and every class, not just your most senior. Its scary.

Ohoni.6057:

I don’t get why people think they deserve rewards for content they can’t complete.

I don’t get why people think they do deserve rewards for content they have completed. It’s all arbitrary, nobody deserves anything. The devs just say “hey, we’ve got this reward, let’s stick it over there,” and if you do that thing, you get that reward. There’s no reason why someone who doesn’t want to do that thing can’t ask for it to also be found elsewhere.

Is this generation this casual or something that they think they deserve rewards for stuff they can’t complete? Most MMOs and other games gate rewards by difficulty and it’s nothing new.

Welcome to the Guild Wars 2 community! Guild Wars 2 is based on moving away from that sort of toxic mindset. It’s cooperative, not competitive, and it embraces the fact that this is a community of largely challenge-casual players.

I think you are mistaken. Many of people that are against raid exclusivity (myself included), aren’t a new generation, but veterans that got tired of those “Most MMO games” long ago.

True enough, I’ve been playing MMOs for over a decade and a half now.

So why are you here asking for a new mode of raiding, a gametype you actively dislike ?

I can’t speak for Astral, but the type of raiding I’m asking for is one that I would like, because it does away with the elements that I don’t like. That’s why I’m asking for it, because the version I’m asking for is the version I want to play. I would have thought that much obvious.

Wouldn’t your time be better spent asking for equivalent rewards from a new source ….Say Legendary Armor from WvW instead ?

Not just from WvW, since I don’t WvW any more than I raid, but I’ve noted that alternate open world PvE sources would work for me. But even if they did that, I’d still like to see an easier version of the raids.

So, you’re a 5 year vet? (oops, sorry. re-read that and I see you say 10+ years…but still)Wow, that’s sooo long. Vanilla WOW came out in what, 04’ ? Not counting also the many many others as well. Hmmm….
And why is it that many times you are asked a question or something of the like and your “educated” response is “NO”? Lol…..
I keep telling myself to stop but I keep coming back here because its hard to believe its still going! I dunno, I’m just baffled really.
But don’t reply….can’t be bothered to read the same junk…was just bored. OH WAIT!! Is that ANET’s fault?? Maybe I should start a thread and complain.

maddoctor.2738:

Vinceman.4572:

That’s a an argument I don’t accept for raids. You should be flexible if you want to raid and have at least a 2nd class you can swap to. It’s all for the team not for your personal desire.

So you are fine if some class is left completely out of Raids?

That’s the point I have tried to make Doc…..why can’t there be a way that classes aren’t excluded? I mean I get the being flexible and all that, and at times I have no issue with it. But wouldn’t it be better for all if you only had to change your build? I dunno, maybe there really isn’t an easy fix to this. I mean I can raid on my Engi with my guild, not an issue, they know my skills. But PUGS just run…..that’s the disconnect. But then I see on here that others have no problem with the LFG tool, so yea….kinda sucks. But I am hopeful!!

Vinceman.4572:

Joxer.6024:

It shouldn’t be "any build’ but more like “any class”. I have no problem swapping my Engi to power if that’s what the group needs, or staying condi. Just take my Engi, that’s all I ask.

That’s a an argument I don’t accept for raids. You should be flexible if you want to raid and have at least a 2nd class you can swap to. It’s all for the team not for your personal desire.

I can buy into that no problem! Its just the blatant refusal to take a certain class, that’s all. But I have no problem being flexible and in fact I am, I do have several “raid ready” toons, so yea, your point is very valid.

It shouldn’t be "any build’ but more like “any class”. I have no problem swapping my Engi to power if that’s what the group needs, or staying condi. Just take my Engi, that’s all I ask.

Sadly you were dead out the gate with being Engi…we aren’t "wanted’ anymore, period. And that’s what has been mentioned here to read in other threads, the balance is out of whack when it comes to raids. They are hard, to a point, and should be and should stay that way. What needs to change is the mentality of the “meta” being the end all of a group, meta or go home sort of thing. If that doesn’t change threads like this will keep popping up but it wont help sadly, it will just give us all more to cut and paste.

" honestly even if you are an amazing power engi i would still consider the condi engi first and then take a look at you because its more proven that it works."
And that right there is a fair call, and that’s what needs to be said to people. You’re an Engi, no problem, but we need you to run condi? Shouldn’t be an issue with any Engi worth his salt. Its the flat out refusing to take a class based on its class alone that sucks. people need to be flexible to a degree, that’s only fair. Just don’t exclude the class itself.

And as for ANET reading all these posts….yea, I reckon they do but its been suggested that a lot of them get moved to reddit as that’s is where ANET seems to hang.

maddoctor.2738

Getting a team for content with daily rewards is easier than getting a team for content with weekly rewards. Some form of incentive for repeating the raids, once you finish them, might be required. This will make it easier to form groups outside the first few days, and at off-peak hours. Tuesday/Wednesday are probably the best days to get Raid groups, Mondays are when most static groups Raid.

Time commitment. Dungeons are generally really fast, and paths that took way too long were ignored. Raid wings should also be fast enough, at least when not counting multiple wipes. I hope the next Raid that will have 4 bosses won’t take hours to finish. Making Raids content that can be done in shorter bursts is essential to allow players with not-set schedules to play it.

Profession balance is obviously important but outside the scope of the Raid team. The balance team needs to step up and make sure there is at least one (more is better) viable build for each profession. If an entire profession is considered sub-optimal then those enjoying that profession cannot Raid.

Fixing raid access is first and foremost priority.

Now that there is some good thinking! And a much better response than just “no”. But most importantly this:
" If an entire profession is considered sub-optimal then those enjoying that profession cannot Raid."

That’s the ticket right there!

And @Ohoni…..
“If your wife would be genuinely salty that other players would have access to Legendary armor through some other methods, then that’s a pity, but it’s more than made up for my the dozens of players who would now be happy because they have Legendary armor. "
Other methods I have no issue with at all, but that’s not what you want. You want something made easy, for you, so you can get the reward. That’s just not cool. Now, make it accessible through another method, that’s fine. That’s not taking anything away from those that did the raids or whatever, and that’s how it should be. Just don’t make something easy because a certain number find it hard.

And its not meta!!!!!! Lubs you!!!!

Gawwwwwh, will this madness ever stop? All these 4 thousand pages are mostly about is a few (2 I think) people who can’t play well enough to EARN rewards in a part of the game that they find to hard, or just not fun. Guess what guys?? Its an MMO, named Guild Wars, get it, “guilds”. Get yours to help you complete an area that is particularly tough or just not fun to get said reward then you never have to bother again. WOW introduced Legendry’s and they were stinkers. You had to play or access areas that a lot of people never did just to get a certain part done. But you grabbed a few guildies and went in and got it done, and felt great about it and thanked those that…wait for it…helped you! Nothing was dumbed down or made easy, you simply got help. Sometimes from others doing the same thing….I.e. the MMO part. Like I have mentioned I have yet to have completed a legendary not because its hard but because its a grind, and one I don’t feel like doing right now. But at some point I will have to do the PVP bit and even complete HoT masterys to get the needed items. But if I was to jump on your band wagon I would start crying (yes, at this point its crying) to ANET like you for them to make it easier or put it in a part of the game I do enjoy. Well what about ALL the players (my wife included) who have done it the “hard way” and actually EARNED the reward? Just kitten on them and their efforts? Not cool. And that’s just what you are asking for, to kitten on all the effort countless players have put out doing the content “as intended” and earning the reward, as it should be.
Raids are not “hard”…they are tough, and by design if you would stop your tears long enough to read what Anet has written, as intended.
You have wasted so much “discussion” and not once opened your eyes long enough to see what is there. Your want has never changed not once, you want what you can’t get made easy to get for YOU. Very selfish outlook but hey, you are entitled to your own opinion, so whatever.
Raids, as has actually been mentioned here, need to be more accessible to the player base, not made easy. And that’s done by taking in other classes, changing the meta mentality and like some have said, maybe balancing some skills so classes have more to bring to the raid. Having a portion of the game that is only really accessible by a handful of classes, that’s the disconnect. Yes, I know, any class can do the content, no issue there. Its just that “any class” isn’t accepted to the said content, that’s all.
So, you that want the easy peasy way, do what others have done and are doing, GET HELP! Its a social game and I for one have yet to be turned away asking for help, in Guild or in Open world. I mean how many HoT hero point trains have you seen people do just because they want to help? Myself, tons……so yea, can the madness stop or at least get back on topic as some really good suggestions have been mentioned in here amongst the crap. Cheers!

“What you can’t accept is that some content of your preferred game type has rewards that you can’t acquire because you found out that you can’t complete the content. "

BAM!.. Mic drop…goodnight.

maddoctor.2738:

Joxer.6024:

But on a serious note the above issue is one that the community can fix now, without ANET…..only how?

I don’t think it’s possible to fix that without Anet. My “idea” would be to give to more builds damage buffs that do not stack with current ones and more builds than can output Might/Fury/Quickness. This is buff/boon meta and the selfish professions are excluded while those with party buffs are invaluable.

Makes sense and sounds like a great fix, or a great start! See, this is the kind of discussions we need on here…constructive!!

maddoctor.2738

You care about their ROLE. In this game that’s unfortunately not the case, and that needs to change.

Yea, lets work on fixing that and then maybe Ohoni will get his loots as he may actually raid as well?
But on a serious note the above issue is one that the community can fix now, without ANET…..only how?

Ghorman.1368:

I’ve seen a lot of posts about Druid condi being one of the best in the games but I really enjoy the DD style more. I have asceneded gear (direct and condi) for both my DD and druid but I’m just no seeing any DD love in raids.

Are DD really that far out of raid meta?

I am being “told” that its Condi Rangers that are all the rage. Been asked to drop my druid tree and run with a condi ranger, so look into that maybe?

zoomborg.9462:

I usually just ask for dps on lfg when creating a group and i let everything in..I’d rather have a dd or guard who knows the class rather than an inexperienced temp and vice-versa. But it changes from person to person. U can pretty much play both dd and druid with one set so i don’t really understand why you have to choose.

Oh I love you! I wanna raid with you! That’s the mentality that the raid community needs to get behind. Do that, and raids will blow up, I just know it.

I’ll post this here as well just because I feel it is somewhat relevant and might help get the OP topic back on target.

LezardValeth.9453:

Current Characters: Viper Horror Necro, Staff Tempest Ele, DPS Support Rev, Condition Engi.

With the nerf of both viper horror and Revs I want another character, preferably one in high demand. Unless its a tank role, I hate tanking. I will do DPS or Conditions.

Herein lies the raiding problem. Not that raids are hard or that we “need” easy mode, but that every class should have a go, period. OP should be able to roll ANY class and be needed in raids. Now, I said class, and as such there are certain requirments you should meet in order to raid of course. As been said, a full celes Guardian in soldier gear just wouldn’t fly. But a Engi, Necro, yes even the poor Revs should still get some love.
If we can fix that, raids will blow up!

LezardValeth.9453:

Current Characters: Viper Horror Necro, Staff Tempest Ele, DPS Support Rev, Condition Engi.

With the nerf of both viper horror and Revs I want another character, preferably one in high demand. Unless its a tank role, I hate tanking. I will do DPS or Conditions.

Herein lies the raiding problem. Not that raids are hard or that we “need” easy mode, but that every class should have a go, period. OP should be able to roll ANY class and be needed in raids. Now, I said class, and as such there are certain requirments you should meet in order to raid of course. As been said, a full celes Guardian in soldier gear just wouldn’t fly. But a Engi, Necro, yes even the poor Revs should still get some love.
If we can fix that, raids will blow up!

Blaeys.3102:

People who are unlucky enough to enjoy the lesser performing professions and builds are essentially locked out of 90% of raid groups right now – and in those they can play in, they significantly reduce the chances of success.

that’s me in a nutshell as to why I don’t raid anymore. I play Engi, enjoy it, am good at it, know the fights but people just don’t want them. Ah well….

Talindra.4958:

Joxer.6024:

Talindra.4958:

Oh geez…. Relax guys .. You guys getting too wrap up with this..
Btw, I just done my full clear this week with pugs again just now..with completely different players except my husband that I know and play with next to me.
This week took us a bit longer than last week around 2.5hrs. There’s laughing and ppl joking around in ts. Like usual, i hv my mic muted.
My husband and i raids with minimum 400ping not 50 or 200. :p so ppl actually hv mercy with us in raids

In my oppinion, raids is really not hard. For those who seriously want to get into raids, do not give up too soon. Bcos, you can only defeat the boss by not giving up trying. If you can’t accept this, then you really shouldn’t be near it and you shouldnt be here to take it down with all your might too. Bcos there are many ppl tht hv fun in raids who doesn’t bother coming to forum and post em here. Similar to SAB trib mode. Those who enjoy never creep here to tell of their fun. Only after they suspend the future release of it

To the raid dev team.. Good job and keep the good work up.

I love that!! My wife and both play and we raided together in WOW like forever. That’s actually where I met her and I have since married her ( I was widowed) and moved to Australia! Love it here!!! And yea, that ping…so sad….go go Telstra!
She is still a tad scared of the raids in this game having only just stepped a toe into VG but maybe I can get her back into it. I was always the tank and she the heals but with GW2 its a whole different ballgame, and she has to pay attention!!!

Are you really so upset? Wow I’m sorry !

Upset at what? Not me for sure.

Talindra.4958:

Oh geez…. Relax guys .. You guys getting too wrap up with this..
Btw, I just done my full clear this week with pugs again just now..with completely different players except my husband that I know and play with next to me.
This week took us a bit longer than last week around 2.5hrs. There’s laughing and ppl joking around in ts. Like usual, i hv my mic muted.
My husband and i raids with minimum 400ping not 50 or 200. :p so ppl actually hv mercy with us in raids

In my oppinion, raids is really not hard. For those who seriously want to get into raids, do not give up too soon. Bcos, you can only defeat the boss by not giving up trying. If you can’t accept this, then you really shouldn’t be near it and you shouldnt be here to take it down with all your might too. Bcos there are many ppl tht hv fun in raids who doesn’t bother coming to forum and post em here. Similar to SAB trib mode. Those who enjoy never creep here to tell of their fun. Only after they suspend the future release of it

To the raid dev team.. Good job and keep the good work up.

I love that!! My wife and both play and we raided together in WOW like forever. That’s actually where I met her and I have since married her ( I was widowed) and moved to Australia! Love it here!!! And yea, that ping…so sad….go go Telstra!
She is still a tad scared of the raids in this game having only just stepped a toe into VG but maybe I can get her back into it. I was always the tank and she the heals but with GW2 its a whole different ballgame, and she has to pay attention!!!

Just give Engis some love, that’s all!!

“I don’t recall Fractals having particularly bad jumping puzzles, and if you aren’t very good at them, you can typically skip up them after the rest of your party. Anyone who can do raid content should have zero trouble getting through fractal platforming.”

They aren’t bad…I just don’t like them. Others love them, so what gives me the right o demand that that part gets removed? And I happen to enjoy raiding, just not the meta attitude.Your logic is twisted and will never sway so with that I’m out.

And yea, WOW has ruined raiding for the most part by doing just what has been mentioned, they dumbed them down. Hopefully ANET will stay away from that.

As an aside….@Ohoni, I don’t do fractals. Why? I hate jumping puzzles. If I wanted to play a platform game I would play Castlevania. But Fracts have some really nice loots, of which I have been told I cant get unless I do them, along with achievements I would like to get and masteries but I wont ever get them because I cant stand to do the fracts that have the jumping in them. Now, does that mean I get to demand that ANET remove that part of the fractal because I don’t like it and suck at it? If so, then I am behind you all the way…but I doubt it.

Astralporing.1957:

Joxer.6024:

As an example only….WOW has Heroic raids and Heroic gear you get from doing them. They also have Mythic raids and you get the better Mythic gear from doing those. You DO NOT get Mythic gear from doing a heroic/normal raid, period.

They also have stat and gear progression that makes those raids easily doable by anyone eventually.

BINGO!! You nailed it! “progression”….from doing the raids. Not from being handed the gear out the gate. And then yea, eventually all can do them, hopefully. But Mythic aint easy nor should it be.

maddoctor.2738:

Joxer.6024:

yea, on that I have to agree. So many times a raid in WOW succeeded on just 2 folks staying alive….Shammy self rez ftw!! But I have noticed that GW2 raids are a tad unforgiving in that aspect, green circles on VG come to mind. Take your every day average guild raid group and have 1 person miss the GC and its a wipe, most times. That could use some fixing I reckon but aside from that the raids are ok.

That’s why you send an extra person to the green circle, so if one misses the circle, there is a back-up. Also, you can completely ignore the green circles and still kill VG, it needs some preparation and skillful usage of your tools though.

yea, that’s why I used the example of “average guild” raid group, those that are not that experienced in all the mechanics.

Rednik.3809:

Talindra.4958:

People need to understand you can’t expect to kill the boss without training. Why ? Bcos theres a lot of mechanics involve and each players has a specific task or tasks to get the team through. And if one person make mistakes that person can cause a wipe and restart. everyone needs to be good enough not saying pro but good enough and get his task/s done. it’s not like other content in the game where you can just jump in and get things done. That’s too easy and no challenge and no fun in that.

Emm… no? Even vanilla wow never had such an absurd requirement, and this is one of the main reasons why raiding population here floating near 5%. Wiping while “training” just because one person made a mistake is an absolutely absurd idea.

yea, on that I have to agree. So many times a raid in WOW succeeded on just 2 folks staying alive….Shammy self rez ftw!! But I have noticed that GW2 raids are a tad unforgiving in that aspect, green circles on VG come to mind. Take your every day average guild raid group and have 1 person miss the GC and its a wipe, most times. That could use some fixing I reckon but aside from that the raids are ok.

As an example only….WOW has Heroic raids and Heroic gear you get from doing them. They also have Mythic raids and you get the better Mythic gear from doing those. You DO NOT get Mythic gear from doing a heroic/normal raid, period.

Ohoni.6057:

People need to abandon the idea of having raid rewards without raiding. This is not a thing. People who trully want these rewards are raiding, point. Stop asking for “easy mode raid” when you only want “easy raid rewards”. You’re just hypocrit. Everyone know what you trully want.

As I keep telling you, I want both, independently of each other, and securing one would not cause me to stop wanting the other. I’ll ask you to please stop lying about me.

ok, now you don’t have any smarts. They ARE NOT independent as a “raid reward” is what you, the player, gets from ….wait for it……..“RAIDING!”

Man, I really need to stop reading this crap…. I finally realized 5 pages back he’s a troll….ah well, still some good discussion in here, buried in amongst the crap.

Orangensaft.7139:

i do think OPs suggestion is a good idea

but Tier 1 raids should basically give no rewards apart from gold maybe but nothing raid specific yet since it would be way too easy
—>Tier 1 just serves as a practice mode only

Tier 2 could give a few magnetite shards and gold but no Legendary Insights yet and no chance on raid specific skin/minipet drops

Tier 3 is the only Tier that should allow progress on the Legendary Collections and has full rewards and drop chances on everything

This way new/insecure players can slowly try to get better and learn and work their way up without just getting an easy way for the rewards
And Veterans who already earned their rewards at the intended difficulty for raids dont get those rewards devalued …so none of them would have to be unhappy about a feature like this coming to the game

Maybe it would be enough to only split the Raid difficulty into 2 Tiers:
1 practice mode with no rewards (apart from gold maybe)
1 normal mode with all raid specific rewards, progress for Legendary armor, etc

FINALLY!!! You nailed mate. that would work really well and is along the lines of what many of us have stated. I for one don’t find the raids hard, just the mentality behind forming a group. But well put!

I swore I was gonna stop, but the stupidity posted here is addicting, I want it to stop.
So Ohoni, from your 400 posts what I can gather is that the solution would be this. I pay money like you and everyone else so why don’t I just get a legendary of my choice, Envoy Armor and god knows what other cool goodies just for logging on? That is basically what you want. yea, you are dressing it up like lipstick on a pig but the essence is just that, you want what others work for without doing the work. Man I bet you were fun in High School, or still are.

Edit….Just want to be clear though that I am not attacking you as a person, that’s not on especially here in this format but just that what you are asking is a tad out there mate, that’s all.

Right here in this forum…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raid-Training-Guild-DFB-EU

Lakemine.3014:

P.S. I don’t like being forced to do content I don’t like over a EXTREMELY long period of time to get a reward, in fact I HATE IT. And I dislike wvw, dungeons, fractals, raids and mostly open world pve, but I slog through it because that’s the ONLY way to get it. And yes I SOOOOOO bad wish there was a way, even if it was ALOT longer, to get the same rewards in pvp. (LOVE pvp) But I understand specific rewards and know I’m never getting my wish…….but I keep dreaming….. sigh

Exactly why I don’t have a legendary. I would like to get Hope, but I don’t WvW or PvP and really don’t want to do the HoT masteries to get the items to make one, so I do without.
And I sure as hell don’t expect to be able to get one by doing something easier than was intended to receive such item!

How do you ask for a thread to be closed? This has gone so far off topic it hurts and I can’t believe some of the utter nonsense that is being “discussed”. I’m going to go get my law degree without going to college cuz yea, its my right and I want one.

" And you’ll never stop arguing until anet email you the envoy armor"

And….mic drop.

Its like talking to a wall…..I’m out, you win.

Linken.6345:

Joxer.6024:

“and I’m told that means you aren’t allowed to hold an opinion on it.”

and

“And finally, I don’t much care whether you disagree with me getting Legendary armor through easy mode, because that has nothing to do with you. You get it how you want to get it, you have no say in how others get it, and if your happiness can only come at their expense, then their happiness comes first.”

WTF??!! Really, what is he (Ohoni) on about? I’m lost now, just silly “I want candy but I don’t have to pay for it” kind of mentality. Can we shut this down now?

Ah so getting the candy bars from doing hard stuff in 6 months time compared to doing easier stuff and getting the same candy bars anywere bettwen 9-24 months is for free now?

I want what your smoking mate.

No, not the point I am trying to make. It just seems he wants to have what everyone else gets from doing raids “normal” by doing them in an easy mode. Bit unfair don’t ya think? You want easy mode or training, no problem, but don’t expect to reap the same rewards as those that do it the other way.

“and I’m told that means you aren’t allowed to hold an opinion on it.”

and

“And finally, I don’t much care whether you disagree with me getting Legendary armor through easy mode, because that has nothing to do with you. You get it how you want to get it, you have no say in how others get it, and if your happiness can only come at their expense, then their happiness comes first.”

WTF??!! Really, what is he (Ohoni) on about? I’m lost now, just silly “I want candy but I don’t have to pay for it” kind of mentality. Can we shut this down now?

Hypairion.9210:

Joxer.6024:

Hypairion.9210:

Ohoni.6057:

You can pug raids.

Oh! You’ve solved this entire problem then! Apparently raids are easily puggable, and everyone who says otherwise is wrong somehow.

Yes, depending of your connection hours and your own expérience, you can easily beat 6 or 7 boss / events in pug ( matthias and xera are, in my opinion, more difficult to pug)

Depending on your class/build and how many LI you have, that’s what pugs look at sadly. Skill has nothing to do with since you are never given the chance to show if you have said skills or not.

I don’t believe in Li check, when me and some friends organize a pug run, usually it’s “know mecanisms and be exp or little exp”. But Yes, classes, build and food have to be meta. If you’re an awesome nomad Guard, sorry, but you’re not needed.

Yea, fair call. As I mentioned elsewhere some ruls of play have to be followed to a certain degree, I get that. And I wish your outlook on pugs and filling them was the “norm”, raid life would be so much easier and fun!! Spread the love mate!!