Guild Wars 2

To be honest this build seems pretty awful for everything including raids. Guard healing is heavily outclassed by ranger and ele and for tanking you don’t need to go this defensive.

Not sure why this is even on metabattle. :<

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Test_of_Faith

Bosses don’t have to walk to activate traps, it’s just that some bosses count as structures and traps don’t trigger on structures. Other examples for traps not triggering are the elemental source in snowblind fractal or the thermal core thingy in the molten facility fractal. Pretty sure it’s working as intended.

Dunno why you would bring the movement speed thingy up though. Are you trying to derail your own thread?

rhodoc.2381:

RubberDougie.2750:

Something about a Rev and Molten Boss. I’m sure you know it.

Not only Rev but also Ele. I’m sure you know it.

Guard and war can do it aswell. :<

The casttimes are fine, they are a more than fair tradeoff for the much more powerful effects of the new virtues. However having the virtues traits like cleanse or stability apply at the start of the cast rather than the end of it would be a good idea imo.

After testing arround a bit I realized that F3 goes on full cooldown if it gets interupted even if you don’t have indomitable courage so nevermind that i guess. I fully agree with you now. :<

F3 goes on full cooldown because the stunbreak is from indomitable courage is instant and when a skill had some sort of effect before it gets interupted it has to go on full cooldown. Otherwise you could abuse it by stunbreaking and then interupting the skill yourself which would basicly give you infinite stunbreaks.

I agree on the rest though. The F2 thing is stupid and should get fixed already.

If you want an offensive elite why would you take fmw over dragons maw? :<

Arken.3725:

It does apply the passive cripple WITH burning, it doesn’t replace it. You’re also correct in assuming that it makes no sense to run both Zealot’s Aggression and BGH.

It might look like it would make no sense when you’re soloing but if you have one engi or something in your party you have enough cripple to use your f1 all the time and still get the 10% multiplier from zealots aggression for the majority of the time.

I feel you. Ever since HoT came out it seems so pointless to have multiple guardians since build diversity kind of got deleted in every gamemode.

That being said if you want to play something different for the sake of playing something different you could always play sinister condi or play arround with hammer builds in raids.

Ribeye.1360:

Thanks for all the great responses so far, i’ve grown to like the hammer a bit recently after using it for a bit, the symbol traits also help quite a bit – loving the constant aoe support from the hammer aa. Is this one of the (or the most) important reasons why guardians use hammers in pve/raids? The symbol uptime?

Also, how competitive are condi burn builds in pve now? Kinda enjoy the melting playstyle too. Would that be one-handed sword/scepter+torch?

Thanks again all!

Yes the symbol from hammer auto is kind of the one and only reason to use it since it gives perma protection with very little investment and effort.

Burn builds are somewhat decent, altho pretty outclassed by condi engi and condi berserker. If you really want to play it it’s fairly viable. Condi builds usually use greatsword and scepter/torch afaik.

Ribeye.1360:

Helllloooooooo,

I’m leveling my guardian right now and was wondering whether or not one-handed weapon builds are viable in end-game pve? Open-world? Fractals? Raids?

I’ve seen some people run hammer/mace+shield, but i’m thinking of going right-hand strength and using mace+shield/scepter+focus. Would not using a hammer kitten my dps or symbol support too much to be viable or competitive?

Thanks in advance for all the help.

The viable builds are kinda greatsword/longbow for DPS and hammer for more defense so if you care about being optimal you shouldn’t stick to one-handed builds.

If you don’t care you probably wouldn’t have posted this question so I’m just gonna assume you do.

Tanking doesn’t mean you stack up toughness and healing power and facetank. Tanking means you slap on one toughness trinket and some defensive traits/weapons/utilities to hold aggro so most “tanks” still use almost full zerk with one knight trinket or something.

I don’t think marauder is needed in PvE so far. Maybe that will change with harder content though since 50% more hp on the cost of arround 10% DPS sounds pretty nice.

As long as we can get away with using zerker gear we should keep using that though.

tappajabob.5983:

I made a guardian because that is what I am in real life too. Here is a list of properties that make me IRL guardian:

• I work to keep my team empowered
• Strong belief in justice
• Resolve to see things to end
• Courage to act when others fail
• Sick concentration ability
• Sometimes meditate
• Always use protection

10/10

I like swords and I like support. I think I got what I wanted.

At least in PvE I really enjoy the mix of being glassy but still being supportive through blocks and stuff.

Kjeldoran.3849:

Here are my 5 cent:
at the actual state guardian’s weapons feel like they give you nothing more than few damage and low (or not well written) utility.
Talking about greatsword (which is the weapon I like the most) it feels like I have just “damage” when using it in pve… Nothing else. AA is low considering the damage output, WW fails to hit unless in certain situations, #3 is just on a so long cd for a leap which inflicts blindness (even more useless of a condition with the new defiance system), symbol is a low to none dps increase and binding blade fails a lot as pull…

If I could change them I would at least:
AA: chain 1 and 2 give you 1 might, 3rd 1 might per enemy.
#2: 3/4 reduction on projectile damage and bring that damage into the whirl itself, you shot only 3 projectiles which apply few sec of cripple
#3: reduced cd by 2s increased range to 800 and add few sec of weackness on top of it
#4: increased damage (20-30% more)
#5: binded targets gets 1 burning stack (1s) per second while binded

I don’t know why you people keep bringing the symbol up. Granted it’s awful in PvP but in PvE it’s a huge DPS gain, even if you don’t cancel the aftercast (which really isnt that hard).

Also the auto is pretty strong. In optimized parties I’m used to seing 10k,10k,15k hits on it. Even more on Vale Guardian. Not sure why you would say the damage output would be low.

Bane Signet is like half the bar on normal bosses. Binding Blade Pull and F1 pull are decentish aswell.

Arken.3725:

The sucky gs does more dmg than LB on paper, not ingame. Not even close.

2nd skill is a poor version of Warrior’s Whirlwind which does the same amount of damage, acts as mobility and is an evade.

3rd skill is on too long of a cd. 15 seconds for a tiny 600 unit leap? Rocket charge, swoop and Whirlwind are far superior.

4th is not a dps boost, it’s actually a loss since you have to stand still for a second to cast it to which your enemy has more time to widen the distance.

You can cancel the aftercast of the symbol by stowing your weapon. :<

Also while your points are valid this post was kinda about PvE. Although Longbow outclassing other weapons by far is even more true for PvP I guess. Currently the only reason to swap to your other set is for defense or to avoid projectile defenses.

Flame Legion Runes are decent.

Thaddeus.4891:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Hammer makes stuff easier, it’s not more optimal. I killed both of those bosses without any hammer guards.

Don’t know about that condi thing. Can you provide actual numbers? Last time I checked condi had to sacrafice all its utility for dps to come close to zerker and was thus considered inferior.

Well first it depend on how you describe optimal. Do you know what is most optimal in any of the three boss of the raid? If so tell me because so far I saw a lot of different composition do a really great job. How do we define the optimal setup? The group that go the faster? Does the raid are old enough to be sure we won’t see faster setup in the future? No so long ago, Snow Crow killed Gorseval in a bit more than 3-4min.

I don’t like using this exemple since it feel like I’m saying that DNT is who decide what is most optimal, but they killed the Vale with a hammer DH with 2:39sec left and since then they changed the build of their DH to be more offensive and I don’t know their new time. Does someone was able to do better than without a Hammer DH? Maybe, even probably. But what then, If someone kill the Vale Guardian without a Hammer DH with 1 more second left on the timer it won’t be consider optimal anymore, and if 1 week later someone else kill the guardian even faster by 1-2 second but with a Hammer DH, then it will be optimal again? I think it’s pretty narrow minded don’t you think?

DNT also killed Sabetha with 2 DH Hammer and 1:36 left on the timer. Again does a ground killed Sabetha with less time and no DH Hammer? Maybe. Does that mean that DH is not and optimal choice in those fight? I’m not sure.

For the condition, it was my opinion before HoT, but DH changed a little that. I don’t play condi guardian and I don’t plan on using it, but according to Obal, the difference in dps is pretty slim. A condi DH with 3 dps utility is about the same as a zerker DH with 2 dps utility. But a DH zerker with 1 dps utility is equal to a condi DH with 1 dps utility. For me, Zerker DH is more fun, more reliable and you always have 1 slot of a support utility so I prefer it. But in view of the difference in dps, both build seem pretty equal to me.

Fair enough. You’re right, we can’t really say what’s optimal yet. On the other hand you probably shouldn’t say hammer is better in these fights either.

Aggrostemma.1703:

Guardian has no movement trait.

Here are the options:

1, Traveller or Speed runes
2, Pack runes for group play or maybe Centaur
3, Shouts like Retreat! and Save Yourselves!
4, Meditations like Merciful or Judge’s Intervention (teleport)
5, Staff for swiftness symbol
6, 1h Sword for blink or GS for leap.
7, Light’s Judgement for swiftness on trap trigger.

I’m not sure but I think I listed all of them.

Happy Guardin’!

Technically you forgot trapper runes giving you super speed but that’s only a PvP thing and the 2 seconds only really matter in combat where super speed is actually doing something noticable so I guess your list is fine.

Test of Faith is better. You should use it over CoP. If you think you will need CoP (if you see condi necros in the other team or something) use JI, CoP and test of faith.

Also I find air/blood way better than /fire since fire got nerfed twice and blood is still the same.

Energy on the other set is definetly the best idea if you play sword since the only reason you would ever switch from longbow to sword/something is for defense or mobility. If you play GS the only reason to swap to it is to burst something that is cc’d or down so you might wanna try sigils for bigger burst like air/hydro or air/rage.

Thaddeus.4891:

Keksmuffin.1450:

No, go ahead. Tell me specific PvE encounters where you would use something else than GS+Lbow.

Vale Guardian and Sabetha. Probably fractal 75+ if they Anet had not nerf their dmg, but instead increase it over the level. Hammer for protection is kind of powerful in fight that put too much pressure on you for your active defense.

A condi Scepter/Torch + GS DH have pretty much the exact dps of a GS + Lbow DH.

Hammer makes stuff easier, it’s not more optimal. I killed both of those bosses without any hammer guards.

Don’t know about that condi thing. Can you provide actual numbers? Last time I checked condi had to sacrafice all its utility for dps to come close to zerker and was thus considered inferior.

The highest true shot I’ve seen on regular mobs was 31k on vale guardian by me.

Obtena.7952:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Obtena.7952:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Obtena.7952:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Thaddeus.4891:

I agree with Pregnantman on that. Longbow is a quality of life. Yes you want to keep yourself without a 600-300 range to keep the party buffs, but it’s still more room to move than with mace. It also give you more freedom in hard pressure situation. With Longbow I can back off a bit when I’m very low hp and still do some decent dps, while with Mace, If I need to back into a more secure zone, my dps drop. That’s risk vs reward balance.

If I’m using Longbow + GS I have more room for error because I can get into range if I need to and I can move outside of most boss melee attack about half the time. With those advantage, we should do less dps or at least equal dps to mace because Mace have some defensive abilities that Longbow doesn’t (I’m talking about the heal). But, true enough Longbow can give vigor to your party, so maybe longbow should really have a bit less dps than Mace.

Sword was just screwed over with the specialization patch. The Symbol of Avengers addition + removal of the sword dps trait really made the difference. With Longbow and Mace already in competition, I don’t think that trying to put Sword back into a direct damage dps role is a good idea. I would prefer to make it more similar to warrior sword as a Condi + Mobility package. Whatever they choose to do with sword, they need to find it a role and improve in that direction because right now it’s meh.

You’re proving my point. Longbow is less risk than melee weapons and shouldn’t outDPS them in an optimal situation which is all I was saying from the start.

These kinds of evaluations don’t make sense; you choose the best things about longbow, then proceeded to argue that it’s OP because it has these things and other weapons don’t. That’s a very cherry-picked argument. I could make the same argument that hammer is OP’ed because it gives me overlapping symbols and permanent protection as well with that kind of logic, but it’s not true.

Longbow has it’s place, but it’s not the be all end all weapon for Guardians by a long shot. I do think that it outpaces Scepter by a long shot and question why anyone might continue to use a Scepter given the LB option but if you can’t see how other weapons offer interesting and useful options that go beyond ‘range’ and ‘damage’, that’s not because the LB is OP, it’s because your assessment is too narrow.

Exept it is the be all end all weapon for everything but GS as far as PvE goes. The only other weapons you actually need to carry arround are hammer and staff and that’s only for utility and not for fighting. :<

Also I can count the “interesting and useful” options all the other weapons give me together with one hand.

Just stating something doesn’t make it true. You’re logic flawed; simply picking two elements that LB has that other weapons don’t doesn’t make it outclass all the other weapon options that Guardians have. As well, what you find ‘interesting and useful’ is subjective and does not at all qualify as a comprehensive list of weapon elements that prove your statements about LB.

If DPS and Range were the only weapon factors that mattered, you might be right and in some circumstances it is all that matters. But that’s not absolutely true, even most the time. I would admit that LB is much better than Scepter, even when considering the diversity you get with an offhand, but that’s about it. Even then, it comes at the hefty price of having to trait DH to use one.

Considering that damage, blinds and blocks are pretty much everything the guard weapons we’re discussing provide I don’t see what else we could talk about when we compare Lbow, Mace and Sword.

Also calling traiting DH a hefty price made me laugh a bit.

Of course you don’t, because if you had a less narrow perspective, you would realize all the factors you aren’t considering, even if you think they aren’t relevant or significant. Frankly, just having the utility of different off hands is a significant factor for some people and LB has not got that flexibility at all.

I could spend much time going through a comprehensive list of factors you’re not willing to discuss, but I don’t see the point since you’ve already decided that LB is THE Guardian weapon because of range + damage.

No, go ahead. Tell me specific PvE encounters where you would use something else than GS+Lbow.

Azure.8670:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Indure.5410:

Our weapons are fine. Longbow should out damage a mace, since the mace is largely a defensive weapon (although it still outputs respectable damage). The sword is a fine weapon that specializes in mobility, it just falls short in damage because it doesn’t have a nice damage pairing offhand to fill in its weaknesses. If torch was rebuilt to provide a strong DPS increase in the off hand slot then both mace and sword would see a lot more play.

…what…

Torch and Focus are really nice strong DPS offhands (in PvE) so what the hell are you talking about? xd

Also sword doesn’t really provide that great mobility. If it would be warrior sword we’re talking about which is basicly a utility weapon maybe I would agree with you but guard sword utility is tiny, especially in PvE where you don’t use the meh projectile defense or the port at all, apart from skips.

condi berserker here!

just chiming in to let you know that warrior sword is no longer a “utility weapon” as, paired with torch and in viper/sin gear, (pve) I am auto attacking for 900-2000, 1000-4000 bleeds and 5-12k burning per second.

The sword shall rise!!!!

Well the only thing condi berserker is better at than phalanx strength berserker is utility though. At least as far as I know the one thing it’s really good at is spamming imobs on the big adds on gorseval which is a utility thing if you ask me.

Obtena.7952:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Obtena.7952:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Thaddeus.4891:

I agree with Pregnantman on that. Longbow is a quality of life. Yes you want to keep yourself without a 600-300 range to keep the party buffs, but it’s still more room to move than with mace. It also give you more freedom in hard pressure situation. With Longbow I can back off a bit when I’m very low hp and still do some decent dps, while with Mace, If I need to back into a more secure zone, my dps drop. That’s risk vs reward balance.

If I’m using Longbow + GS I have more room for error because I can get into range if I need to and I can move outside of most boss melee attack about half the time. With those advantage, we should do less dps or at least equal dps to mace because Mace have some defensive abilities that Longbow doesn’t (I’m talking about the heal). But, true enough Longbow can give vigor to your party, so maybe longbow should really have a bit less dps than Mace.

Sword was just screwed over with the specialization patch. The Symbol of Avengers addition + removal of the sword dps trait really made the difference. With Longbow and Mace already in competition, I don’t think that trying to put Sword back into a direct damage dps role is a good idea. I would prefer to make it more similar to warrior sword as a Condi + Mobility package. Whatever they choose to do with sword, they need to find it a role and improve in that direction because right now it’s meh.

You’re proving my point. Longbow is less risk than melee weapons and shouldn’t outDPS them in an optimal situation which is all I was saying from the start.

These kinds of evaluations don’t make sense; you choose the best things about longbow, then proceeded to argue that it’s OP because it has these things and other weapons don’t. That’s a very cherry-picked argument. I could make the same argument that hammer is OP’ed because it gives me overlapping symbols and permanent protection as well with that kind of logic, but it’s not true.

Longbow has it’s place, but it’s not the be all end all weapon for Guardians by a long shot. I do think that it outpaces Scepter by a long shot and question why anyone might continue to use a Scepter given the LB option but if you can’t see how other weapons offer interesting and useful options that go beyond ‘range’ and ‘damage’, that’s not because the LB is OP, it’s because your assessment is too narrow.

Exept it is the be all end all weapon for everything but GS as far as PvE goes. The only other weapons you actually need to carry arround are hammer and staff and that’s only for utility and not for fighting. :<

Also I can count the “interesting and useful” options all the other weapons give me together with one hand.

Just stating something doesn’t make it true. You’re logic flawed; simply picking two elements that LB has that other weapons don’t doesn’t make it outclass all the other weapon options that Guardians have. As well, what you find ‘interesting and useful’ is subjective and does not at all qualify as a comprehensive list of weapon elements that prove your statements about LB.

If DPS and Range were the only weapon factors that mattered, you might be right and in some circumstances it is all that matters. But that’s not absolutely true, even most the time. I would admit that LB is much better than Scepter, even when considering the diversity you get with an offhand, but that’s about it. Even then, it comes at the hefty price of having to trait DH to use one.

Considering that damage, blinds and blocks are pretty much everything the guard weapons we’re discussing provide I don’t see what else we could talk about when we compare Lbow, Mace and Sword.

Also calling traiting DH a hefty price made me laugh a bit.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Just a few questions:

• Why are we considering Mace a defensive weapon?
• Why is Sword classified as a damage weapon?
• Why do we talk about the support melee Weapons bring, but don’t consider the support LB brings when we compare?
• The GS trait Zealous Blade is a damage increase and a support increase. Does that make GS a support weapon?
• Most complaints seem to be when individual expectations aren’t changed to meet reality. Why?

• Mace has blocks, protection, regen, heal and the only trait that buffs mace specificly gives healing power so I would say it’s pretty clear that it was intended to be a defensive weapon.

• Sword gives none of that and the only trait that buffed sword specificly gave damage (which doesnt exist anymore) so I would say it got designed as a damage weapon.

• Dunno. Probably because vigor isn’t that big of a deal anymore, almost every guard weapons has blinds and #5 is so niche that it’s not really worth mentioning.

• How is self healing support?

• I don’t think we’re talking about our expactations only. What I said above about the weapons are more or less facts and not my own expectations.

Obtena.7952:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Thaddeus.4891:

I agree with Pregnantman on that. Longbow is a quality of life. Yes you want to keep yourself without a 600-300 range to keep the party buffs, but it’s still more room to move than with mace. It also give you more freedom in hard pressure situation. With Longbow I can back off a bit when I’m very low hp and still do some decent dps, while with Mace, If I need to back into a more secure zone, my dps drop. That’s risk vs reward balance.

If I’m using Longbow + GS I have more room for error because I can get into range if I need to and I can move outside of most boss melee attack about half the time. With those advantage, we should do less dps or at least equal dps to mace because Mace have some defensive abilities that Longbow doesn’t (I’m talking about the heal). But, true enough Longbow can give vigor to your party, so maybe longbow should really have a bit less dps than Mace.

Sword was just screwed over with the specialization patch. The Symbol of Avengers addition + removal of the sword dps trait really made the difference. With Longbow and Mace already in competition, I don’t think that trying to put Sword back into a direct damage dps role is a good idea. I would prefer to make it more similar to warrior sword as a Condi + Mobility package. Whatever they choose to do with sword, they need to find it a role and improve in that direction because right now it’s meh.

You’re proving my point. Longbow is less risk than melee weapons and shouldn’t outDPS them in an optimal situation which is all I was saying from the start.

These kinds of evaluations don’t make sense; you choose the best things about longbow, then proceeded to argue that it’s OP because it has these things and other weapons don’t. That’s a very cherry-picked argument. I could make the same argument that hammer is OP’ed because it gives me overlapping symbols and permanent protection as well with that kind of logic, but it’s not true.

Longbow has it’s place, but it’s not the be all end all weapon for Guardians by a long shot. I do think that it outpaces Scepter by a long shot and question why anyone might continue to use a Scepter given the LB option but if you can’t see how other weapons offer interesting and useful options that go beyond ‘range’ and ‘damage’, that’s not because the LB is OP, it’s because your assessment is too narrow.

Exept it is the be all end all weapon for everything but GS as far as PvE goes. The only other weapons you actually need to carry arround are hammer and staff and that’s only for utility and not for fighting. :<

Also I can count the “interesting and useful” options all the other weapons give me together with one hand.

Drayos.8759:

dont rly get the argument

Dragonhunter IS OUR DPS SPECC, the idea of this was to introduce a Pure Zerker specc to the guardian Why WOULDNT the zerker weapon we’ve been given be the higher DPS, Im sorry but Rangers LB have been outdamaging Melee Weapons for Years, they dont take “RISK” into the fact of “balance”

They intended us to be Ranged DPS or Melee Tanks, thats just how it is, to argue we sghould nerf our OWN elites based on a Risk factor in PvE is ridiculous because Right now we’re ALREAYD Pushed into being only tanks because DH DPS is performing at a high enough level to be taken willingly into PuGs.

We’re Dropping out of SPVP Meta at a alarming rate, ESL shows this every day, We’re being reduced to only being capable of tanking slowly, and you wish to aid this with actually nerfing the Specc all together, Anet have had Base guardian for 3 years and its worked out this way, why would u ask for nerfs given the factor u wont recieve any buffs, u’ll just be nerfed down.

I understand u want to see MORE then just dragonhunter used, but in my opinon i’d Rather have Dragonhunter then have Nothing, we’ll be the Next SPVP Warriors if they smack us with nerfs on the only kitten viable specc we have.

honestly if it annoys u so much, Reroll, its exactly what u would be forced to do if they nerf dragonhunter anyway.

You got something wrong. I love dragonhunter. I don’t dislike longbow. I just think it’s wrong for it to outdps melee weapons.

You can still get on range while on longbow since you can shoot 3 and 4 behind you and just go melee again when you’re about to switch to GS?

Arutha.9874:

You are putting way too much value on range, if you want to stay at 300 range then you won’t put out that 5% increased dps.
Just longbow dps is lower than GS/mace dps, so you have to be in melee to get GS/LB dps so Longbow is a melee weapon too so it doesn’t have to be lower?

So longbow damage is justified because GS is a melee weapon. What.

Thaddeus.4891:

I agree with Pregnantman on that. Longbow is a quality of life. Yes you want to keep yourself without a 600-300 range to keep the party buffs, but it’s still more room to move than with mace. It also give you more freedom in hard pressure situation. With Longbow I can back off a bit when I’m very low hp and still do some decent dps, while with Mace, If I need to back into a more secure zone, my dps drop. That’s risk vs reward balance.

If I’m using Longbow + GS I have more room for error because I can get into range if I need to and I can move outside of most boss melee attack about half the time. With those advantage, we should do less dps or at least equal dps to mace because Mace have some defensive abilities that Longbow doesn’t (I’m talking about the heal). But, true enough Longbow can give vigor to your party, so maybe longbow should really have a bit less dps than Mace.

Sword was just screwed over with the specialization patch. The Symbol of Avengers addition + removal of the sword dps trait really made the difference. With Longbow and Mace already in competition, I don’t think that trying to put Sword back into a direct damage dps role is a good idea. I would prefer to make it more similar to warrior sword as a Condi + Mobility package. Whatever they choose to do with sword, they need to find it a role and improve in that direction because right now it’s meh.

You’re proving my point. Longbow is less risk than melee weapons and shouldn’t outDPS them in an optimal situation which is all I was saying from the start.

Indure.5410:

Keksmuffin.1450:

…what…

Torch and Focus are really nice strong DPS offhands (in PvE) so what the hell are you talking about? xd

Also sword doesn’t really provide that great mobility. If it would be warrior sword we’re talking about which is basicly a utility weapon maybe I would agree with you but guard sword utility is tiny, especially in PvE where you don’t use the meh projectile defense or the port at all, apart from skips.

They are good offhands, focus especially. Although I don’t understand how the 36s cooldown Shield of Wrath makes it considered a DPS offhand. Torch on the other hand is a mix. Zealot’s Flame is good, but only great with Radiant Fire. And Cleansing Flame is very lackluster in both PVE and PVP.

You’re kinda missinformed. Zealots Flame is good with and without radiant fire as it’s a DPS increase on it’s own. Also focus dps is good cause you can cancel and reset your auto after the 2nd strike with RoJ and it’s a DPS gain if the bounce hits your target. You’re obviously right about cleansing flame which is a skill that might aswell not exist but oh well.

Pregnantman.8259:

The fact remains that however small, longbow still pulls better damage than mace or sword with focus or torch. It would still be bad design even if longbow had the same damage with mace and torch or focus because you don’t get to benefit from range with mace. The support comes with mace and torch or focus doesn’t really give enough excuse for the melee setup to be equal or lower in damage compared to longbow.

I don’t really get what you mean with “benefiting from range” since you still want to stand inside of less than 600 range to the boss to get might from revs and wars. I kinda somewhat agree a tiny bit on mace having some utility and that kinda justifying the lower damage, especially since the difference isn’t that big but my point of sword being worse for no reason still stands.

Thaddeus.4891:

Well first of all

GS + Mace/Torch DPS vary between 0 and 5% less dps than a GS + Longbow guardian so I think it’s pretty great. Did you just look at what the meta is and think that anything that isn’t the meta in dungeon/fractal is garbage dps?

Scepter/Torch + GS condi DPS go higher and lower than GS + Longbow over time, but overall it’s pretty much the same.

Focus is very similar to torch in dps as an offhand while offering more defense, making it also a good weapon.

Hammer is around 5-10% less dps than GS + Longbow, while bringing a huge defensive boost to your team. It’s probably the best weapon in raid.

So really, GS, Longbow, Mace, Torch, Scepter, Hammer and Focus are all very good weapons, able to be used in build that are all very near in dps compare to the meta GS + Longbow. Even Shield also have niche used in a lot of situation, and more than often is part of the standard loadout of a guardian tank in raid.

Sure, a lot of those weapons could have some work on them. Torch 5 being the most obvious. But in reality only Sword is really in bad shape. Looks at the actual effectiveness of each weapons, because if you only think about the meta, there will always be on best setup a bit higher than everything else. The goal isn’t to make sure that doesn’t happen. The goal is too keep all other weapons set close enough to it that they are worth using, and to try to give all of them a little flavor that put them ahead in certain situation. And for the guardian, they pretty much got it right for the most part.

I’m aware of all of these facts and I play mace instead of longbow from time to time when I really don’t feel like using longbow.

The thing is if mace wouldn’t be so much more fun for me there is just no reason to use it (outside of situations where you use it for surviving with the block, on skips, in dredge fractal or something).

Since it’s still useful (somewhat) and it was never designed to be an offensive weapon mace probably shouldn’t be touched, I agree with you on that. Maybe longbow is fine aswell since after all it’s supposed to be a high dps weapon (i think? xd) but longbow being much better than sword is kinda stupid considering that longbow is much safer since it’s ranged.

Indure.5410:

Our weapons are fine. Longbow should out damage a mace, since the mace is largely a defensive weapon (although it still outputs respectable damage). The sword is a fine weapon that specializes in mobility, it just falls short in damage because it doesn’t have a nice damage pairing offhand to fill in its weaknesses. If torch was rebuilt to provide a strong DPS increase in the off hand slot then both mace and sword would see a lot more play.

…what…

Torch and Focus are really nice strong DPS offhands (in PvE) so what the hell are you talking about? xd

Also sword doesn’t really provide that great mobility. If it would be warrior sword we’re talking about which is basicly a utility weapon maybe I would agree with you but guard sword utility is tiny, especially in PvE where you don’t use the meh projectile defense or the port at all, apart from skips.

It’s less about the skins and more about the gameplay that makes me miss mace. I never liked sword that much since it’s just spamming auto and mace actually has some depth to it if you try to dps with it (canceling your auto after 2nd hit, using protectors strike efficiently).

Would still prefer sword over a range weapon though. Also it’s the weapon that puts you at the biggest risk since it has barely any defenses and is melee so it should do the most damage out of the three imo.

Why does a range weapon (longbow) do more damage than a melee weapon (mace)? Why does a defensive weapon (mace) do more damage than a offensive one (sword)? Why am I sitting on tons of useless ascended and legendary weapons because longbow just outclasses all of them? Is there anybody that is bothered by this aswell? :<

I really think guardian weapons need some changes in damage numbers considering that the risk vs reward factor is completly turned arround.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I’ve made sure to pass this topic and issue onto the Fractals team, so they’re aware.

^-^

Wethospu.6437:

Does retaliation go up with higher levels?

On 40 it does like 200-300 and on 100 it does like 500-900 so yeah.

savacli.8172:

I actually enjoy the instability for the very reason of having to think outside the box. Though what sucks about the instability is that it’s for 10 levels. It’d be better if we have the older instability system where we just had to put up with it for one level and have a new challenge on the next.

The instability I’m reffering to lasts for 20 levels actually.

ThyShadowPaladin.9521:

I see people complain about “Fractals not hard enough, not challenging! Q_Q” everywhere in this forum, but this? Seriously? all I hear is “Please make it easier for us, take it away because it’s too hard! we get killed by our own skills” pretty much. Please get serious. This is a l2p issue.

Oh, BTW here’s a tip: What do you do when the Archdiviner or Shaman starts reflecting your Range attacks? You stop attacking till it stops. Problem solved.

I’m not complaining about Retal on its own. As I stated in my OP I like retal killing brainless people. I think it’s a nice mechanic. It’s just stupid how bad guardian is because of this instability. I played without GS and without zeal and I can tell you that it’s definetly not worth bringing a guardian if he has to do that.

As I said my favorite solution would just giving guard other stuff instead of retal, especially on such a key skill as symbol of wrath.

Yobculture.5786:

You can always just not play Guardian.

:^)

:^)

Can you please do something about Guardian having to kitten themselfes by not using half their skills half the time in high level fractals because of the Boon Thieves instability that kinda causes everybody to die if you use anything that gives retal at the wrong time (GS #4, any virtue besides f3, leaps or blasts in light fields).

I mean sure I can just not use my skills, even swap out zeal so I don’t have the automatic symbol proc on 50% HP but it’s just not fun at all and I don’t think one class should have such a huge disadvantage just because it has this useless and super counterproductive boon as their “trademark” boon.

Let retal from oponents do less damage (not let it scale with their power to ridicolous ticks as 900 per hit), replace retal on symbol of wrath with might or fury, replace the automatic symbol proc with something else, think of something else yourself but please do something about it so I can do proper DPS rotations without camping longbow or mace for 90% of the time if I don’t want to risk wiping my party.

Since I kinda like the idea of getting punished for attacking brainlessly by dying to retal my favorite option by far would be replacing retal on symbol of wrath though.

k then

Skyline Crash.6254:

EvilSardine.9635:

True shot needs a nerf. Don’t even try to defend it. All of my guildies who main guardian completely agree that this ability is kittened.

I’m being hit in WvW for 8-10k and I’m on a warrior with 1800 toughness. The actual skill animation is BARELY noticeable and it’s on such a short cool down it’s absurd. It’s a kill shot on a ridiculously short cool down that doesn’t need to build adrenaline.

If you’ve got 2-3 DH’s in an enemy group it’s impossible to avoid these true shots because they don’t have an obvious kneeling animation and long casting time.

Nah, its fine the way it is.

10/10 argumentation how could I not agree with you, wow.

SolarDragon.7063:

Auto attacks of 2-3k and true shots of 10k, meanwhile if you come on point the Whirling BLades do 5k a shot with daze on activation so you can only teleport if it’s a stunbreak as well.
From a rational point of view, how is this any worse than a trapper ranger with a longbow? Because Dragonhunter traps benefit from PRECISELY the same stats and buffs that longbow does, whereas trapper rangers have to sacrifice some stats for condi, or have their traps hit like a wet noodle.
Dragonhunters also get far better knockback on longbow (sure, if they trait for it) which gives them buffs if they do so. Overall, you end up with a build with no sensible counters that don’t rely on having your entire utility bar set up purely to fight dragonhunters… and even then their base damage and aegis will push them ahead.
Their “Shield everything from the front” is doubly stupid when combined with this, as especially in a 1v1 situation they can negate basically all your damage for far longer than is sensible.
Please, fix PART of this. Let them have their longbow of doom WITHOUT the traps, or make all the traps condition based (sure they’ll still get might stacking but at least they can’t literally kill you with less than half the power of a single trap), or make the traps smaller so that you can at least kite the edge of the point, turn the longbow power down… just SOMETHING.

While I would agree on DH needing a nerf you complain about quite random things. Daze on trap activation or procession of blades seem odd things to cry about and I wouldn’t touch those. Also making traps condi based is a terrible idea. The only trap that really needs a nerf on the initial damage is test of faith imo.

Apart from that you exegerate a lot on longbow damage. 10k true shots in pvp are not realistic with a halfway competetive build. 7k is like the biggest I’ve seen on marauder medi trapper. True shot could need a slight nerf in damage and maybe a tiny increase on the cooldown but nerfing it to the ground is definetly not a solution.

thanks m8