I think Anet should give the boss more kind of anti projectile spell which is not whirling defense(it hurts) like CM centaur one to encourage player go to melee from time to time.
Since we can swap weapon,have to keep swapping between melee and range seems reasonable.
Just so you know, Elementalists technically have no way to swap weapon nor do we have a “true” melee weapon. Even daggers suffer from projectile reflection.
I’m really only posting to say,
Bloom is actually easier at melee range, this coming from an ele.
How? My guardian (Suppsoedly the most survivable class) dies to it at like 15+. In 10, I have a 50/50 chance of melee not killing me.
Bloom does 3 moves that can kill you really. The single target poison, the 6 point dredge style quake drill thing, and the most important being the AoE poison agony move.
Of the 3 moves the single target isn’t too much of an issue with any character unless you were already hit to begin with. The 6 pointed AoE has a Kohler style charge up and is easy to dodge out of. Even when hit, it only deals a moderate amount of damage and is really only dangerous if you’re really hurt or you’re out of condition removals.
The most important is the agony inducing AoE poison. The reason why melee range is actually better is because of how the water tends to hide the red circles. In melee range, the circles are easily visible and simple to dodge, in some cases even without dodging.
How to exploit this really depends on your setup though. I run with sigil of energy so I pretty much dodge everything which tends to skew things a lot. However, for most jobs it’s easy enough to just save dodges for the immobilizing drill attack and the agony attack.
(edited by Kirbyprime.2645)
I’m really only posting to say,
Bloom is actually easier at melee range, this coming from an ele.
Keep your camera on the shaman. When he does the charge up motion, see where he’s looking at, if it’s at you, dodge. If you get targeted a lot, get out of range ( or over 900 at least ) for a bit. The boss seems to target the closer characters more often.
Meh, to be honest I think it’s fine… I mean, I did this with a D/D bunker Ele, a condition necro, a zerker war, an engie and a thief. The setup is a bit everything so it’s not like it’s DPS heavy, just need to learn to target the assassins asap while dancing around the regular mobs.
I wouldn’t agree with 2 hours if you’re a beginner, at this point you should be aware of how fractals work even if you never did them, I’ll assume that you’re a decent player, so it will take an hour including maw, especially in low levels, however it could take a lot longer if you get a poor group or get long paths, but what everyone else failed to mention is that some long fractals tend to be very profitable, but then again, that’s all luck I guess.
Numerous pugs at daily 30 has made me pessimistic as to how well people can do so I’ll stick with 2 hours. Remember starting week and people rage quiting over dredge boss?!
However, if it’s a group of friends who at the very least looked at the wiki, yes, you can probably cut that estimate down a lot. Boss mechanics might take a small bit to learn but no agony makes it easy enough.
Beginner runs? I would say maybe 2 hours for the first few times if you get all the very long ones and need to learn different mechanics.
Advanced / Expert? I would say 45min to 1hour would be the average. “If” you were to RNG it and go for Swamp first ( and everyone knew what to do ) I suppose 35~min would also be doable. Kind of hard to go any faster do to walking times.
For anyone who’s curious…
CNY = Chinese New Year
It’s basically around 3-5 days ( let’s just say entire week ) event somewhat different than western New Year. It “should” start … well it actually started already, but the actually big stuff doesn’t start for another 2 days on the 3rd day. Also, because it’s longer than western New Years, chances are there are quite a few people who are going on trips and extended leave.
That being said, let’s hope for a good match next week!
I suppose the most destructive thing they could do is reduce the range of RtL to say… 900? I would say more but you might as well kill Elementalists off if you do that.
Something like removing the trait that gives cantrips regen ( in effect killing up to 3 of our condition removals ) would slow us down as well.
Tbh I’d rather they nerf our bunker survivability then mess with our mobility. I mean, we need SOMETHING that we excel at and that’s it.
I’ve lost to other D/Ds
As a DnD ele, I hate fighting another DnD. First , if they bunker, no one wins. Second if they run, be prepared to run half the map. Any dnd also hate fighting another dnd?
I try not to run from other D/Ds. Easier to see where you stand against your own class. Yeah, bunker vs bunker takes forever and most of the time someone interrupts you due to the long fights, but still a good way to see how you fare.
JUST FYI guys, much of SOS is currently on a hiatus (because we win too much); if we’re to put in any effort at all, it will be this – “eat my dust!”.
Cheers!
Thought that was last week?
Well, if it’s true, hope you come back to full strength. Regardless of losing, it was still a better and more fun fight compared to old school HoD, ET and old old school BG.
To be honest, I thought SoR would be weaker than BG and be 3rd place and just fade off in a week. I’m pleasantly surprised and hope for more fun to come!
Really hope the new WvW tier math doesn’t split us up ( for too long ) so we can go at it again.
Exactly what do you mean by “defeating” them. WvW and just making them leave? PvP and actually killing them?
I mean, I have lots of trouble with killing and have died to tanks from other classes when I refused to run away, but aside from 1-2 thieves specifically, I have never had trouble running away from from a fight if I choose to do so.
That being said, yeah, if you’re talking about actually killing a D/D ele in an open space, I would have to say it’s not happening. I haven’t seen a ranger with enough burst potential to kill me before I reacted and even with boon stripping I can still get away due to Cantrips and RtL.
Only thing I can think of is if you can bait an Ele to overextend, count their Catrips, RtL CD and heals and strip boon and burst them from half HP point before they can regain CDs to run.
If you’re just trying to get them to run away. I’m pretty sure any form of strip boon + immobilize ( multiple ) will scare off most elementals since standing still is probably the worst thing for us.
“If” it is a true duel situation where the Elementalist isn’t going to run or exit combat to heal up, pretty sure a hybrid tank of some sort will work, I’ve lost to other D/Ds, Engie, … and umm… that’s it, I don’t duel much if ever, and they all were tanks.
Only other situation is that I’ve been killed in a 1v1 situation was a thief with the full backstab + venom + items + everything in 1 second routine but unless ranger can pop that out I don’t think it’s really worth mentioning.
Quick update
SoR: 89624 + 215
SoS: 85594 +175
JQ: 84289 + 305
If you’re going with 2, AC path 2 would probably be easiest. If you’re going with 5, CoF path 1 would probably be easier.
Meh… it’s completely true that a level 80 is better suited to taking out lower level dungeons. Please don’t try to argue about armor lowering, I could go in with all whites with no stats ( still need slots ) and still outfight any level 30 on AC.
Here’s what you have over a level 30,
- 50 trait points
- level 80 sigils
- level 80 runes
- possible level 80 food buffs
For example, my D/D ele will out-perform any level 30 D/D purely because I have 500 specialized stats over them already. I have traits that buff my utilities so I can use them faster and more effectively and in some cases I have access to traits that they wouldn’t have like evasive arcana.
Runes and Sigils; I personally use Superior Rune of Energy and Battle. Those 2 increase my survivability and damage by leaps and bounds over that of a level 30. There is no way they can even hope to match me using their level 30 sigils. They are also limited to minor runes which are less effective compared to my superior runes.
Food I guess isn’t really used too often in AC, but imagine someone using Omnomberry ghosts, that pretty much makes any level 80 cloth class ( well those who spec precision or perma fury ) tankier than level 30 guardians.
Unfortunately, since almost everyone has at least 1 character at 80 now, it’s a far lower priority for devs to try to balance dungeon instances for the intended levels instead of 80. Not to say it’s not possible… I mean, I did AC path 1, 2 when I was level 38 and the highest level was level 50, but really, having even 1 level 80 makes it infinitely easier given that some can solo it and most if not all can duo it.
I dunno, they played well pretty much every week they were in Tier 1…and they had steady improvement each match. Culminating in a 2nd place finish last week.
Actually they ended in 3rd place. SoS took 2nd from them Thursday night.
Got to admit, queues are horrific but it’s insanely fun. All 4 maps have complete warzones with none of the servers willing to give up.
Oh, it was a BG on JQBL. I’m also JQ.
Well, questions asked and answered, tweaking build and learned something new so all good.
Thanks for the help all, I hope to beat all of you next time! XD
Culling is horrible, I swear I can’t see a single SoR!
Meh… I could have ran, but that’s really the same as losing tbh. So yes I stayed, I died, hence the thread.
Only thing I can think of doing is switching my armor and buffs around since I wasn’t taking much direct damage from him. Of course I normally play as a zerg breaker in WvW so switching to Knight’s gear isn’t all that good but will need to see.
Yes, I will most likely never see that Engie again nor would such a situation arise since JQ is normally running zergs or running against zergs but still would want to know how to fight you guys properly.
Yeah, to be honest judging from logs we were pretty even on the damage front. I do feel that most of the damage is from me mis-judging confusion on myself and mis-using my healing skills.
I didn’t have much trouble removing conditions except that confusion seemed to keep popping up.
>_> I’m quite sure I got spoiled by glass cannon thieves.
Hummm, Elixer B really does look painful. It would explain how he managed to deal so much damage to me. Considering I was also staying close to him it makes sense why I fell.
Thanks, unfortunately D/Ds weren’t made to remove buffs but it gives me a good enough idea of how to even the odds.
Oh, he had skale poison item on as well, that I know since I confused him for a thief at the beginning.
Umm, from what’s left of my combat log I see
Blowtorch
Explosive Shot
Poison Dart
I wasn’t paying too much attention to the type of food, but I know he had food and item buffs on.
I’d rather not post this on WvW forums since last thing I want is for people to call nerf or so on ( especially coming from a D/D ele ) which I do not want for either party but I was wondering if someone on this forum could help me.
I just had my kitten kicked by an Engie ( it was 2 on 1 against him too! ) using… what I can see as a pistol and flamethrower. He seemed a extremely tanky, I was running bunker but even so he was extremely hard to damage. Conditions seems to be stacking minor blooding and confusion.
Assuming that this is a bunker vs bunker fight, which would mean I just sucked and couldn’t kill him ( most likely ), any tips on how to beat him?
Also, if you were that Engineer on JQBL vs a DD Ele and I think some warrior, I bow to your skill.
There’s a variation of this strategy used in WvW with golems for the express purpose of knocking back large groups of people from gates.
Problem being that with Ele’s it’s an elite and is far less effective.
Haven’t noticed if it’s slower, but the curve has definitely been nerfed. It’s actually quite easy to see if you use it a lot since you take less damage from fake ( say stairs or hills ) fall damage.
Being JQ, I dislike SoS… I also dislike BG… I disliked SBI and HoD and any other server in WvW just because they’re not JQ.
But on a more serious note, I doubt SoS will just lie down and die. It’s true, SoS normally didn’t have much of any competition during reset weekend, it’s quite shocking to not have them as first or second. Problem is, their overall weekly coverage is fairly high so they can chase and surpass BG easily enough. That is, assuming that BG didn’t get some major guild infusion.
I wouldn’t bet on SoS dropping to T2 until Thursday night.
Quick update on scores.
JQ: 325
SoS: 195
BG: 175
JQ is still very high as of right now.
Quickie would be
JQ: 300
SoS: 230
BG: 165
The fact that we’ve held on so far is the explanation you’re asking for. We have too much pride having been in T1 for so long to quit and just lie down.
We might not have coverage at times to snag #1 but we certainly will not just let some other server come in and stomp all over us.
Technically yes but no Canadian ever calls themselves Americans ( unless they actually wanted to be part of the US ). Plus what else would Americans call themselves aside from Americans… USArians?
Could the JQ who’s complaining please stop… you’re making us look bad. >_> Plus we usually fail hard on weekends, can’t blame BG for not knowing but SoS knows this quite well.
BG gets the outmanned buff on BGBL.
Same with JQ and SoS, I was talking EB specifically.
It’s a zerg… without a leader to coordinate they tend to avoid moving alone in fear that they’ll die while the zerg runs off to the next camp.
In this case, that indecision made they waste minutes while deciding whether to attack the eles or run away. Common sense in upper tiers is to just stream roll them since everyone has a gap closer. Only time this “doesn’t” happen is if it’s a stealthy zerg and a commander specifically calls for non-combat to avoid crossed swords.
In other words, bad zerg, bad OP, good play on part of the eles but not going to comment on their builds.
I’ve read SF’s reasons for joining JQ. Although it’s kind of bad to say it as T1, but we do need it.
Not sure about SoS and BG, but JQ actually gets outmanned buffs during NA primetime in EB. It’s during this time that we generally lose our outliners and sometimes inner towers.
Will be interesting next 2 weeks as the new guilds funnel in.
Did someone actually post a thread on how to counter a staff ele? Really? Are you for real or are you just emo and want to see ele nerfed regardless of which build it is?
People tend to be a lot more … understanding… with level 1s rather than level 10+. As said, just post that you’re inexperienced. Either you get likewise people or you’ll get a high level person who felt like helping on a whim.
Level 1 is nothing special. Tank’ish and Balanced builds are stronger compared to condition builds but it’s not too big of a deal until you get higher up. It has to do more with knowing and learning the specific fractal mechanics rather than build.
Only real thing that seems class dependent is the burrows. If you’re unable to beat them down fast enough then you’re screwed. Everything else “should” be doable on most classes.
If they make D/D into the “single target” option I would laugh since that would probably make us stronger… alas I’m dreaming and that will never happen.
Maybe across the board damage nerf and reduced AoE range? Lightning whip would be funny if they bugged it even more.
Nice run, good display of different weapon sets.
Seems like, Staff for most fights. D/D for mobility and minor bosses and S/D for kite fights.
I have to admit that BG has a lot stronger Ele / Thief force compared to SBI. I mean that as a compliment btw.
Different kind of fight, though not really much difference in the overall EB scene.
To be honest the most dangerous nerf would be to RtL or cantrips. I doubt they can reduce our toughness / vit anymore than it is already and the issue seems to be the “bunker” portion of the build rather than the lolDamage.
Reduce healing would hurt and probably affect PvP more than WvW ( I assume, since I don’t play PvP ) since WvWers can still run away.
I suppose something like a increase to cooldowns? Might have to go back to 0/20/0/30/20 if that’s the case. If they drastically change how skills work it’s going to be a baaaaaddd day.
Lol… sure, Ele using runspeed signet… hahaha.
I used to run a 0/20/0/30/20 build for the -20% cooldown in air but changed it for EA which helps a bit in survivability and also in dungeons when I run staff.
The -20% actually helps a fair bit in WvW if you’re into roaming or even zerging if you’re more prone to leading into the enemy zerg rather than poking from the sides.
Actually kind of sad at times… I was defending a camp in WvW when 2 complete glass cannon thieves came to flip. Since I knew they were coming I easily countered their initial burst. Problem is, even as a complete glass cannon, me as a tank with my full air/fire combo only got him down to 30% HP. That’s like what… 8k? give or take. To a non-glass cannon that wouldn’t even have fazed them. And even to those glass cannons they wouldn’t have died if they had left and healed before coming back.
Well… technically you can get 22k HP when you’re in WvW during a breakout event. Though still figuring out how to do a 15k burst along with that.
After you armor up you start to notice that you have a fairly high degree of toughness ( for a light armor class ) so Earth isn’t strictly needed. Plus other trait lines are more important to cover D/D’s weaknesses.