Guild Wars 2

Xeph.4513:

Here it is, please feel free to discuss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hByqoWsnz-I

after watching this I get a good idea of what kind of people are in charge of pvp.
not only does jonathan sharp stick to his guns in what hes been saying for the past 3 months but he talks about other games as well that require balanced competitive play and he talks about them in a sensible understanding while correlating a point about spvp balance(like not rushing things and making sweeping changes)

the impression i get is that, sharp is a gamer to the core and understands both sides of the coin of being a developer and a gamer.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Not being a designer, I’m not sure what the best call is, but I like your suggestions! Here are some things to keep in mind:
Minimum win bonus could help, but encourages AFK (need to solve that as well).
Better win multiplier could work as long as the scoring system gives incentive for conquest play.
Nothing made me more angry in BF2142 than when the game or my computer crashed and I lost all my progress from that match.

i once lost everything in that game
had a fully unlocked assault and engineer then pc crashed some issues with my account and lost all my upgrades and rank =(

after that i looked at the ceiling …looked back at my pc then continued to play lol.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Pyrial.2917:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Pyrial.2917:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Pyrial.2917:

Evan Lesh.3295:

These screenshots are all at the end of a game. Players don’t get autobalanced towards the end of matches so that people don’t get forced onto a losing team. Of course this doesn’t do anything for afk players. Maybe the afk timer needs to be shortened?

The same results of those screen shots can be captured at the beginning or middle of the game.

Then autobalance would/should have kicked in. Are you saying there is a bug with autobalance? Is it possible you checked the scoreboard after someone left, and before the autobalance happened?

I don’t know if there is a bug, I know that when people get auto balanced out they leave the game and then people join back in and the teams aren’t balanced (just as in the above) Some people leave when they’re auto’d off of their friends team and try to rejoin again.

It may just be an unfortunate result of the volatility of pugs

I disagree, it’s the unfortunate result of there not being any penalty for leaving. People who are auto balanced to the losing side and then leaving only to requeue somewhere else is what is causing this whole issue.

Maybe we need to call out better the fact that you still get the win bonus. And hot-join games aren’t meant to have penalties for things like leaving in the same way you don’t get a penalty for leaving a TF2 match.

personally I think there should be a bit more incentive to win like new unlockable stuff or a chance to win crafting components after a series of won matches. I feel a lacking sense of challenge vs. reward, like i’m never competing for something.

the reward system in tf2 is the same but different in a lot of subtle ways because there are certain items really hard to get that people would kill for in that game, which i think Anet should learn to do. In tf2 you can unlock rewards by crafting, playing or acheivments, but you can also unlock these items by paying for them which is purely optional. on top of this a lot of the new content for the game is actually designed by the community on the steam work shop and sold in the games cash shop.

so in that conclusion i don’t think its just the nature of the hotjoin mechanic alone but the reward system and lack of incentives as well, so making items that require participation or reward it would be a cool idea

if your intent was to simply come out with a matchmaking system to cater to the most casual sense of pvp, that’s ok and I personally would be all for it, i just wish there was more game modes or types that differentiated them selves and gave the pvp’er a broader scope of challenges and how far and hard hes willing to play.

something that says OK! I can que up for spvp or tpvp for some casual pvp and just kinda play around or get the feel for a build I’m trying out maybe just play around with my freinds and just talk in w/e voip I use.

OR

I can also que for the real deal that gives me better rewards that can only be unlocked by playing these modes, something based on a personal or team rating system that punishes me for failure but rewards me for success such as certain rewards that can only be achieved with certain ratings, like arena’s or guild vs guild
heck I would love to see a dota style game mode based on a team rating. there is paid tournaments but I cant really count those because they reward failure =(.

Waffler.1257:

Bunkers are easy to deal with, all you need is a combination of knockbacks and immobilize to keep them out of the cap point long enough for you to cap it. Then since bunkers do kitten damage you just sit in there and drink up the points.

i find boon removal just as if not more effective too

Rieselle.5079:

If anything, a MOBA style game would work well with GW2’s level system, whereas it might not work so well in any other MMO.

Since GW2 characters are auto-scaled to max level, in a MOBA map they can be auto-scaled to level 30, and then over the course of the match they can earn levels, items, unlock skills, etc.

GW2’s ability to dynamically alter player levels is exactly what would make a MOBA set up work.

---

Having said that though, I hate MOBA games :P

I was thinking maybe a more streamlined version take out leveling completely but leave the currency build and upgrade shops. have it be more of a currency race to achieve better upgrades like movement speed or attack speed
stats/affects nothing major just small percentages and numbers that can mildly build up over time that all professions can benefit from. but be careful dying to other players will make you lose points used for buying upgrades.

that way it keeps it more skill based/even playing field while allowing people to add depth to there builds and class

Evan Lesh.3295:

Pyrial.2917:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Pyrial.2917:

Evan Lesh.3295:

These screenshots are all at the end of a game. Players don’t get autobalanced towards the end of matches so that people don’t get forced onto a losing team. Of course this doesn’t do anything for afk players. Maybe the afk timer needs to be shortened?

The same results of those screen shots can be captured at the beginning or middle of the game.

Then autobalance would/should have kicked in. Are you saying there is a bug with autobalance? Is it possible you checked the scoreboard after someone left, and before the autobalance happened?

I don’t know if there is a bug, I know that when people get auto balanced out they leave the game and then people join back in and the teams aren’t balanced (just as in the above) Some people leave when they’re auto’d off of their friends team and try to rejoin again.

It may just be an unfortunate result of the volatility of pugs

idea. give the ability for the players to report others for being afk, but put checks/balances into that system so that it cannot be abused, like only your own team can report you afk and it takes a certain number of reports to make the game check if that player is actually afk or not like seeing if they have done anything in there combat log and or for how long. then let it boot the afk player to the mists

edit: also to add to that idea have it put a debuff on the player that gets reported that counts down and gives that player a small amount of time to start playing or get into combat before it kicks you to make sure if your really afk or not

Lord Drakoz.4702:

voice your opinion

it certainly has potential and will only go as far as Anet is willing to put into it

Gintoki.6405:

last time i checked the most common glasscannon build in tpvp that actually causes problems would be 100b warriors haste,bullscharge,100b,spin off into the distance like 15k dmg too everyone in the area… personally i think people need to learn to adapt and change, theres always gonna be people playing glass cannons and bunkers

I play a lot tpvp both pugs and pre-mades and I can vouch that there is a lot of 100b warriors and I think that is due to how they can still manage decent armor and health while running the build

though I agree they are common I feel that all the other glass cannon builds are just as common. shatter mesmer, back stab thief, quickness ranger etc…

the main reason why is even though they are very squishy people know they can get away with them due to good play and a team composition that synergies well with glassy builds.

Brenil.8957:

Pretty simple question that I haven’t been able to have answered clearly enough for me by searching and asking people in-game:

How do you counter stealth?

Such a question obviously leans toward Thieves as they use it the most, but I sincerely do not understand how the stealth mechanic in this game works. So if someone or some people could explain how it works and what its counters are, I’d appreciate it.

crowd control or heavy dmg cool-downs

stealth does not mean your invulnerable, to many times i’ve seen or while on my own thief been countered by well timed damage or crowd control

the easiest is shadow reforge they are given a limited area of stealth then a longer stealth when it finishes the trick is to use what you can before it lets up.

grenades, fear, hundred blades and just about any kind of knock-back that takes them out of there shadow reforge is a solid counter to a long timed stealth they get when the reforge finishes. too many times I’ve seen thieves come out of stealth in a downed state for this to not be true

as for other stealth mechanics you have to be willing to guesstimate there location predict if they double backed or would have a reason to while in stealth and doesn’t hurt if you have the cd’s to spare when there in it.

also your not immune to trap mechanics while in stealth also

Typhoon Blue.3698:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Typhoon Blue.3698:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Anet as one of the WORST balancing teams – if you can call 2 people a “team” i have seen. It amazes me how they can fix issues that HELP a class and yet FAIL to fix issues that make a class WORSE – talking Ele and RTL/MG being STILL bugged despite them saying its “fixed” and then destroy EA because people USED it :/

This game doesnt stand a chance at becoming an Esport. Not now, not EVER.

Are you still throwing a tantrum? It’s already been explained that it isn’t only two people. The two people Jon was referring to were the two head designers. They have their own staff. They even stickied that response.

Holy crap, that makes it WORSE that its a “team” and they still manage to mess everything up :/

Also, can you link this thread, i am interested in what it says.

Here you go.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/The-teams-that-work-on-PvP-WvW-Balance/first#post818357

You make it seem like development is some kind of easy process in which you can fix things in a few hours! Maybe they should hire you. You can bring your own whip.

best reply ive read in a long time……. stay classy =)

xbutcherx.3861:

seriously? a warrior whining about a thief? I seen it all. l2p

^ I hate these kinds of posters
to much bias and trolling in this thread imo

people need to look at this in a general sense for what it is:
thieves can currently hit people too hard too quickly and this combo is very hard to avoid and usually ends up with my character dying before I’m able to react

now you can give plenty of counter argument’s and opinions or deflect the subject like the quoted poster shifting blame on the players class as to why this is ok or shouldn’t change but people can go around arguing this forever and never get real answers.

at the end of the day the truth usually ends up being the census of opinion and I’m fairly sure Anet listen’s to there community (ascendance gear scare and the AMA for exp) and will find more people complaining about this then are actually for the dmg thieves can spit out and how.

knight.8926:

let us be able to take out certain things from spvp to pve, wvw. Like runes, skins, or accesories. I’ve noticed that there are certain stats in spvp armor that are not in pve armors. I’d like to be able to take, if not runes or skins, but those certain stats as well (i.e power, precision, vitality).
If we need to use glory to purchase it I wouldn’t mind at all since I don’t really use it anyways.

sure but they can only be used cosmetically or with transmute

and speaking of they need a better system that lets you change the appearance of your gear

gwawer.9805:

Is it too major of a factor in a PVP game? I don’t want play with some 1-ability treb toy I would rather be playing my character fighting other players. Does it force players to play an element they’d rather not?
.

no and yes

yes it is in spvp where it feels like the game was intended more for 5v5 rather than 8v8 you simply get away with more stuff with more people.

and no because in tpvp with more coordinated groups there is easy counters and defensive strategies you can take to avoid losing your lord treb and or taking ou tthe enemies

just my take

Waffler.1257:

If they just took GW1 PvP and ported it to GW2, .

be nice if we could ask them

NevirSayDie.6235:

Coopers.4376:

Im just so astonished that anyone could come up with such a stupid idea and somehow try to spin it as a way to save the game.

wtb better community.

he has a point though im sure he speaks strongly because he feels strongly about the game

I think it would be fun and interesting to see, also very possible with how pvp and the professions are setup in this game
and something Anet should look into doing or think about

i mean look at the wild success of dota genre games
it would be crazy not to do this

Elloni.2473:

Kline.9561:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Fighting an evading thief underwater is fun… really fun. Impossible to hit, except for one stray shot every 10 seconds or so. Another intended mechanic I guess?

does very little damage/avoidable and in my experience thieves always get eaten alive by warrior weapon combos underwater or just ranged weapons underwater in general

You’re not getting it. The thief in this scenario isn’t trying to kill anything only keep you from capping a point while you sit their and watch “evade, evade, evade, evade.”

time it then stun it or knock it back i get that they are doing, but owell its a map that is not even on the tpvp list in a 8v8 zerg fest match
how much the devs pay attention to underwater combat I don’t know.

OGDeadHead.8326:

…is that an intended mechanic?

to me its not as bad as quickness stomping

because at least with stealth stomping the thief can still be attacked while in stealth or cc’ed with things like fear and knock back

stealth stomping may be bad in spvp but in tpvp with a coordinated team you can preemptively cc the thief

OGDeadHead.8326:

Fighting an evading thief underwater is fun… really fun. Impossible to hit, except for one stray shot every 10 seconds or so. Another intended mechanic I guess?

does very little damage/avoidable and in my experience thieves always get eaten alive by warrior weapon combos underwater or just ranged weapons underwater in general

Aldizi.5671:

Syeria.4812 stoofoo

“5. MoP is probably the least “threatening” game currently.”

whos next with real opinions who support mine.

cant say I support all your opinions either due to my personal opinion of stated game above. i played wow for 8 years all i did was pvp and when mop was coming out i never bought it. it was not because of the new talents, panda’s or just change i actually enjoyed all that

no i quit because the developers simply do not support nor care about pvp when it has amazing potential. it is not there focus because it is the minority of the playerbase and its the minority mainly because they never supported pvp in there game in the first place. and look at wow’s pvp now it’s pretty kitten pathetic

so my friends told me to get gw2 because they focus more on pvp than other mmo’s and yes they were right the pvp in gw2 is miles ahead of wow’s, it has issues but still has very good pvp and potential.

but the the ideas you bring have been asked for before and its simply a question of time this game is still new had a deadline, Anet never got as much pvp content out as they wanted and some of those things you mentioned are in the works or being planned out already.

and please lets not turn this into a WOW vs GW2 debate . lets just NOT because that will get it locked or deleted .

you can disagree with my statements on that game if you want but just skip to 4:45 in this video before you do and lets just leave the wow thing at that please.

i’ve posted one of these videos before in the spvp section but daniel floyd makes a lot of sound and logical videos so I’m posting another

the community angry, confused or disappointed about the bait and switch Anet has made about the manifesto fiasco can find a simple answer in this video even if its not the one you want its just the facts in running a gaming company.

I applaud the people who made this game and encourage them to continue to make a great mmo experience. they aimed high with ambitious goals, have done a lot of work because making a triple A game especialy an mmo is no easy feat so i applaud you Anet

Zid.4196:

Kline.9561:

Zid.4196:

Give me real ELO and I will give you real answers.

was not asking you for any answers simply stating there is no one answer for pvp

less critical more criticism with constructiveness

I was constructive.

An ELO ladder will be immensely helpful for improving this game. It’s the right way to weed out speculation, flukes, myths and give visibility to people who know their kitten.

ELO it is then

Zid.4196:

Give me real ELO and I will give you real answers.

was not asking you for any answers simply stating there is no one answer for pvp

less critical more criticism with constructiveness

Zid.4196:

LOL

There is no counter for…

…wait for it…

…stealth!

everyone has there own opinions and thoughts on the state of balance but those thoughts can be strictly subjective that is simple the nature of the beast we call pvp

i can easily say a lot of times thief stealth can be a problem and a lot of times it isn’t for me i’ve countered many thieves by anticipating the moves from watching the animation’s or unloading damage cooldown’s into areas I figure or know they will be stealth at (reforge) but there are just to many variables that swirl into the equation

its said truth is the census of opinion
then can we ask? …. in how many peoples opinions are thief’s too strong or how many think they are not

a lot of people on the forums complain about them does that mean its true…? no because the forums are not everyone neither am I nor are you
so the subject gets tossed around in a state of limbo as everyone debates with no real answers. last patch the back stab build was not nerfed that does not make me think Anet does not know what there doing but rather they are seeing numbers and statistics we don’t have access to. which…..

is also another good discussion: should pvp be something that is more balanced by statistics and numbers or more so experiences by players.

Schwahrheit.4203:

Only thing ANET has to do now is give Trebuchet repair kits a 3-5 minute respawn time just so Mesmers become close to balanced. There’s like no incentive to get good at protecting the Treb, and 2 Mesmers can still swap portal Trebs which is stupid.

valid opinion and agree somewhat but i personaly think they need to nerf portal in a more subtle way not nerf portal with guns blazing I would recommend that the best choice of action is using portal makes you leave the or drop the repair kit or the repair kit keeps you from using the portal in the first place until you drop it

you have to be careful with changes because some might have unintended results. I see the distance of the portal not being a problem due to its short duration but portal is used as a utility tool not only for the mesmer but by his team that when executed strategically leaves a very accomplished feeling. also this is just me, as sound as portal is in theory i think it should have charges of only two people using it, that is just my take on how it should change

Boloth.6879:

http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2012/7/18/a-discussion-of-balance.html

very good counter argument/diff view yet same idea of the subject on imperfect balance

nice read it made me think

NevirSayDie.6235:

I like the part at the end that says one of the fundamental principles is that no character should be good at everything. This one in particular applies to GW2 because the developers really want to make every profession have a variety of damage, support, and control skills. It’s a good idea, but there’s a danger of players finding a build that’s good against everything, thus destroying any chance of the meta changing.

agree completly

Dual.8953:

I saw someone post this in the last game I played and have seen it at work. And in that game it was possible to stun a player to death with no downside. In GW2, at least we have counters for everything if one’s willing to look.

good post dual
key words
if one’s willing to look.

I know that everyone in this section of the forums are having a hissy fit (if not all forums that ever were) and while some arguments and opinions may be valid and some may not i honestly think we need to be giving this game more time before we make accusations and screaming the end times of gw2

i simply link this as food for thought for the pvp community and Anet

JonathanSharp.7094:

aydenunited.5729:

leman.7682:

aydenunited.5729:

5v5 hotjoin alone makes it worthwhile. Thanks, Anet!

It doesn’t just for the simple fact 8v8’s are listed first. Also baddies will always prefer to play 8v8 so they can hide their lack of skill and brains behind numbers of the group.

Go troll somewhere else.

So don’t play 8v8? I know I won’t be. I don’t understand your point in calling what I said trolling. The “baddies” get to keep their 8v8, and people like me get 5v5. It’s win/win.

That’s what we were thinking. Lets people have the best of both worlds. Glad you like the 5v5’s!

We can watch the servers to see which players use more. If 5on5 is seeing more play, we can change the order and put them at the top of the lists. We’ll just keep an eye on it and see what the players gravitate towards.

a valid and nice little addition to spvp I enjoy but I’m not going to bite….why?
because jon these should not be the “as” important issues to discuss atm. Class balance or where bunkers and glass cannon builds sit with the devs and other additions to spvp like different game modes/GvG etc that will make pvp promising for the future should be.

i’m sure your pvp community would enjoy your thoughts on the class balance choices introduced this patch and why you made the ones you did and the ones you plan to.