Guild Wars 2

Recently I’ve dropped BV and started running with DV and TG instead. Overall I feel this is better. Those times where it’s constantly fight after fight, I dont feel like wasting the time to cast BV.

Another, and the main reason I did this is: How many of us are used to the screen change/stone color when hit with BV? The moment it happens, you know it, and you know what’s about to follow. Devourer on the other hand, especially of they are gathered around in a cluster kitten, is probably less likely to be reacted to.

TG is also great for CC when you need to get somebody off one of your team mates. The melee thief will always throw scorpion wire (whether or not it lands is another matter, but meh), and the other will pop a smoke field you can HS > Stealth into.

This works well when there is a bunker, or say, an Ele, you just absolutely want to die. Devourer > CnD > Mug > TG > Backstab > #1 Chain. Then, run to your melee thief, as he’s about to scorpion wire. Hey! Free interrupt, and they just got pulled to you. Time for another CnD > Backstab while they’re down.

It’s also great for those times when another enemy shows up, and turns it into a 1v2, while you’ve already popped TG. They’ll be so busy fighting your thieves, you can run off to the other side of the map without fear of being knocked/pushed/pulled out of SR and being focused after.

Geiir.7603:

We can still perma stealth to get away or heal ourself up to full hp in stealth. they should have given us 3 seconds of revealed after leaving stealth, even if not attacking, than destroying several builds.

Agreed. :/

Follidus.8027:

[SNIP]

Lastly, stop spamming the forums please. If you actually care about the future of the game (and if you don’t, then why are you still here?), then you have to understand that all these posts are doing nothing but deterring newer players from wanting to play. We don’t need a separate thread for each person’s opinion on how the warrior sucks now. We don’t need a separate thread for each person that is “quitting” the game. I don’t want to be mean, so I’ll leave it at that.

Thank you.

Well, let’s be honest. If every new player based their decision on the amount of whining on class specific issues in a game with PvP, no one would ever join an MMO to begin with. But we’re all here, and that would also just be silly. :P

darkace.8925:

Kneru.8014:

But you can use Death Bloss…. that’s a condi skill.

So yeah, I concur, if you’re not lining up for a backstab, it’s pretty much HS or #1 spam. >.>

This post alone illustrates the kind of short-sightedness I’m talking about. You completely discount D/D because you’re CnD Backstab combo isn’t as effective as it used to be. And you completely discount the possibility that D/D can be used for anything other than CnD/Backstab.

My D/D evasion build is proof positive that there are more uses to D/D than just CnD/Backstab. And even if it weren’t, CnD still works. It’s not as effective as it used to be (i.e. it’s not as overpowered), but it still works. You’re striking me as the kind of guy who wants it all without having to work for it.

Whoa, stop. In that post specifically, did I mention anything about the revealed debuff being increased by 1 whole second? No. I can simply adapt to that. I’ve always run my builds (even Backstab), with Feline’s Grace. I have an extra dodge. I can do fine for one more second.

The post I made was more about how we have a condi skill dead center of a DD set. Thus, limiting our options. Nothing more. However, for someone who’s claims to be a thief, you certainly seem hold a lot of hatred for other thief players…

Also, as Grimwolf pointed out, your DB, Disabling Shot, Dodge (evasion skills) spam build, IMO, is more gimmicky than a BS build. Especially the ones who wait for stealth to wear off so they can spam DB some more, and pop right back into stealth.

That kitten’s just freaking annoying. And unless you have precise timing when they land on DB to immobilize/stun, they’re just gonna continue evading everything you throw at them…

I’m assuming you probably think when someone talks about BS, we’re all running 30/30/0/0/10 cookie cutter, but we’re not. The first build I made myself when I started BS was more sustained and dodging. So, running a different build isnt something that special, where you seem to think you can just talk down to other thief player’s because you run something different.

If you’ve played an MMO before, you know the cycle. Nerfs, buffs, ups, downs. But the main question here is: “If they start nerfing stealth, and our ability to get into stealth due to whiners now… Where will they draw the line?”

I’ve seen classes like Operatives in SWTOR nerfed repeatedly, until they were almost unviable. Sure you could kill someone, but if you’re good with that class, then you could do even better with something else. I myself dont want to see the Thief profession nerfed into oblivion.

Dasorine.1964:

The cannot run away while under the stone effect.

Before this change basilisk venom actually applied 2 effects, first being the petrified condition, this is the stun that last 1.5 seconds and can be broken with a stun break move.

The second was an immobilize, this was hidden and was not removed when petrified was meaning after stun breaking people where still stuck in place.

With this patch it just means that anyone under the effect of basilisk venom escaped using a stun break not a stun break and a condition remover.

This. The hidden immobilize was a pain in the kitten to deal with. Now if you hit your stun break, you can dodge then follow up HS spam. I’m happy about it, even as a thief player.

avilo.1942:

It’s probably best to go 30 arcana/30 water if you’re going to switch.

I think everyone should be a bunker Ele/Gaurdian. The match would never end until the timer ran out, cause no one would die and we could all just sit on points and twiddle our thumbs.

…
…
…

Or atleast that’s how it’s starting to look…

Karolis.4261:

Zikory.6871:

Kneru.8014:

stof.9341:

No, Basilisk is a stun not a daze. It’d be stupid to turn someone into stone, into a stone statue that can still move.

The problem was that if you stun breaked out of Basilisk, you still were unable to move or dodge for the full duration because of a hidden immobilize effect that wasn’t removed.

And thank God they finally fixed this. As a thief, if another thief would jump me with Basilisk, I would just Shadowstep away. Avoiding the backstab, however, not being able to dodge the inevitable HS spam by noobs that would follow it.

Now I can get out of the backstab setup, dodge the HS, without having to blow my Shadow Return, and instead set them up for the backstab myself.

Where I don’t condone HS spam…how can they be noobs if they know they can spam HS and you can’t avoid it? Sounds like a solid game plan…lol

Becouse most of them will continue Heartseeking untill they run out of initiative no matter where u at . I have seen that plenty times when they perform their Cnd steal BS combo and start spamming Heartseeker untill burn out. They literally fly through field w/o target couse Im allready stealthed and circle around for backstab.

Haha, god those fights are hilarious. Even more so if you have blind on stealth. I feel my win of a 1v2 against 2 HS spammers was won because of that trait.

Doggie.3184:

[snip]

Not just the being revealed part that sucks, the attack chain order is so annoying now, I can’t stand it. Waiting to interrupt the last auto attack in the 2nd dagger chain ina row continually~ it’s just no fun and slower DPS now. Fighting mobs in PvE just irritates me now. I woulda welcomed reveal after not attacking over this cuz at least I keep my offensive style.

This. I’ve seen a couple people do it, one specificially, in sPvP where they chain CnD. I might have done it a couple times just to stall, or get into a better position. But 98% of the time if I hit CnD, I’m going for that Backstab. Dont have all day to sit there and chain stealth, I want you dead, NOW!

Grimwolf.7163:

darkace.8925:

Vargs.6234:

It was a really stupid nerf that hurt PvE thieves…

This nerf hasn’t hurt my PvE thief at all.

I’m going to repeat something I said back when life-steal food was “nerfed” (i.e. balanced): if you build your character around a single skill, trait, boon, or consumable then you’re setting yourself up for a aggravation should the day come your gimmick build nerfed.

What else should you do with a D/D Thief, spam Heartseeker? The set has a distinct lack of options built in on a fundamental level.

But you can spam CnD and waste 6 ini each time! But they also nerfed the damage on that a long time ago.

But you can spam Dancing Dagger and waste 4 ini each for… well you’d be better off using your auto attack…

But you can use Death Bloss…. that’s a condi skill.

So yeah, I concur, if you’re not lining up for a backstab, it’s pretty much HS or #1 spam. >.>

Rezzet.3614:

why isnt stealth wearing out when the target Blocks the hit if someone blocks it means the attack landed but was not effective and thus should disable stealth.

I agree. It’s a backstab. Their shield isnt on their back if they’re in a fight. Therefore, backstab should ignore block.

Wait what? :o

Henrik.7560:

Whine whine whine! nothing more coming from the WAY overpowered classes? None of us can stealth from our own combo fields, and from 3 utilities and a weapon skill.
And that rediculous shadow refuge, I wish the cooldown was doubled, and the stealthed half, they just use that and run around in it getting 10s of stealth, and boom they are gone.

If you think mesmers are more OP, lets see. Our burst is 7k at the most from phantasm berserker, movement WAY slower, (5k more health) and our healing skill doesnt stealth, apply regeneration, or remove conditions like your OP one does. and there is only 4 possible ways to stealth.

Mesmer’s definitely don’t feel OP when I’m fighting them. As for your burst only being 7k, I some how doubt that. >.>

Recently.1043:

I’m so confused. I thought they knew that warrior was strong in PvE and weak in PvP already…..

So what do they do? They buff warriors in PvE and nerf them in PvP…………….. so confused……..

No matter what game it is, it always seems the dev’s do the opposite of how we see things… Weird… O.o

Still trying to rationalize how this is not already in place. If I could run PvP, and get the gold, then I could buy the dyes I want on all my characters as well, while still playing the aspect I enjoy the most. Not that I don’t like PvE, but I just enjoy PvP more…

Make it happen A Net.

stof.9341:

No, Basilisk is a stun not a daze. It’d be stupid to turn someone into stone, into a stone statue that can still move.

The problem was that if you stun breaked out of Basilisk, you still were unable to move or dodge for the full duration because of a hidden immobilize effect that wasn’t removed.

And thank God they finally fixed this. As a thief, if another thief would jump me with Basilisk, I would just Shadowstep away. Avoiding the backstab, however, not being able to dodge the inevitable HS spam by noobs that would follow it.

Now I can get out of the backstab setup, dodge the HS, without having to blow my Shadow Return, and instead set them up for the backstab myself.

I’m not gonna really talk about Elementalist, since I havent really started to learn mine. But with people complaining about thieves being able to get in and get out when the situation turns bad for them, Elementalist seem to be just as bad about this. Between RTL, Lightning Flash, and myabe 1 or 2 other mobile moves, Elementalist are just as bad about this.

On mesmer, they are getting atleast 1 buff that I remember from the SotG video, with their GS #1 skill being able to hit other people within the line of the beam. Dont really feel that Mesmer is OP. All you have to really do is back off for a second. Look for the Mesmer that appears suddenly after a couple seconds of Decoy, etc. Look for the one casting a heal, throwing the sword, dodging, stabbing their GS into the ground.

One you practice a bit of patience when fighting a mesmer, it becomes easier and easier to zero in on the real one. Afterwards call target for any team mates, and to help yourself visually keep track of them. Do that, and beating Mesmer’s is pretty cake.

After I reappear, even if the owner is halfway across the map.

Reiven.2543:

Just another thief that cant believe stealth is not some IWIN/ESCAPE button.

Move along.

Whatever, I get the feeling you dont even play a thief, or any class with stealth do you? -.-

Teamkiller.4315:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Teleport

:D

I know for a fact that Judge’s intervention and one of the Necro’s skills allow them to completely bypass fall damage.

I also know that JI, Blink from mesmer, and Lightning flash from Ele does not interrupt channeling skills.

Just thought I’d add: Neither does Thief’s Steal, Infiltrator’s Signet, or Shadowstep.

Looking forward to it as well. So tired of people just waiting for stealth to wear off, only to hit LDB, and then blinding powder into stealth again. kitten gets old… -.-

randomfightfan.4091:

I use fast cast ground targetting so sometimes you use it once and it doesn’t go off, you just assume you casted out of range so you cast it again. That instantly messes you over. THAT is the most common circumstance where I find the .2s delay would be a lifesaver. Also .2s is negligible most of the time but .1s might be better for people like you who don’t want to be slowed down and have perfect internets. That way you don’t get slowed down and I don’t get auto-boned.

I concur. That’s my exact issue.

Oh, I didnt shadowstep, must have been out of range. (Too many effects, too many attacks on screen, cant be asked to look at red text all the time).

Softspoken.2410:

I’m not really certain. I’d have to test it on thieves specifically, as the stone applied by Basilisk Venom is stun-breakable (Specifically changed way back in October, I think), while stone applied by basilisks in PvE is not.

I do have a suspicion though: there’s a trait that gives the thief an extra use of any given venom, including basilisk venom. In PvE, if they’re using Basilisk Venom as their elite, it’s probable they had Residual Venoms as well. So you may have stun-broke the first hit, only to get hit immediately after and take another 1.5 second stone.

Well, the usual Thief combo is preload CnD > Steal (traited with Mug, III) > Backstab. Between CnD and Mug, this would hit almost simultaneously, so the residual venom trait would have already applied the 2nd effect, as Steal would have done damage being traited (Mug) and then CnD would hit.

I know Basilisk is bugged where if you are stone colored you cannot dodge roll, but I couldnt move at all, so kinda curious.

So, I’m a thief by nature, but lately been checking out other classes, gaurdian, ranger, etc. I made a Necro earlier today, and being a thief main, I understand the setups for their burst.

However, just a few seconds ago in a match a Thief would hit me with Basilisk, I’d counter with spectral walk, but this didnt really seem to accomplish anything. It felt like I still couldnt move. I know there is a bug with Basilisk Venom, I’ve seen it happen on my thief where I shadowstep away after being hit, and cannot dodge while still stone colored.

However, unless I’m missing something and they snuck in devourer venom as well (didnt see them activate it before when they attacked me in a previous game), so I’m curious if Spectral Walk is bugged and doesnt actually break stun. O.o

Any insight would be appreciated. Not sure if it’s just bugged, it’s the basilisk venom bug, or if there’s something I’m missing here.

(I had a nice P.S. as well, but it seems to have screwed up on the forums. O.o Anyways, the shortened version of what I remember.)

(P.S.S, reply can only be 5001 characters, and with quotes plus my text, I dont feel like figuring out the magical paragraph for this to work. -.-)

While I agree with your idea about adding points for the winners, I dont agree with the rest of it. This does not end the zerg mentality. Many seem to be afraid of a good 1v1 or 1v2, or even 2v2.

Due to this, even with points for winning, does not promote defense. Gamers are like mice in a maze. What ever gets them to the shiny the fastest, is the most likely route they will take. Zerging and backcapping points as a zerg, gets them the most glory. Thus, the fastest why to get more shinies. Ergo, the most common route.

The same thing happened in SWTOR. Sure some zerged, but for the most part others will stay and guard the node (and if competent enough, call out incoming in chat/voice), because they were also rewarded for doing so, and this made them felt more like a team player.

Or, if you’re really afraid of a people just completely AFKing, the game has a system for that. In which, it kicks you out if you’re inactive for a period of time. Shorten this time, say, 1 minute, and there we go… Have you never alt tabbed out while logged in? You would have noticed this. -.-;;

Jax.5261:

Kneru.8014:

This is another issue, but with sPvP as a whole. I get it, you want conquest to be a main focus, so you have enough of those maps for tournies. Great!

But, just about every game is Zerg vs Zerg. Personally, I’m not even going to bother if it’s just a zergfest. I’ll leave immediately. It’s not fun. Even in tournies there have been a few groups that just zerg.

Sure, I can go backcap, as a Thief I have the mobility. But, it’s Player vs Player. Backcapping points all day long, is one of lower interest. Plus, I made a Guardian the other day to learn their skills, and maybe take up bunkering. Hard to practice doing that when it’s degraded into nothing but a zergfest.

There also seems to be a lot of lower ranked players starting to pick up sPvP. Great! But if this zergfest continues, I feel like nothing will change. They will learn to play with the zerg, more people will become accustomed to it, cycle continues.

All that needs to happen is give +10 points or so, per… I dont know, 30 seconds? For guarding the area around a node. People will get their glory, it will encourage a more defensive play style, and it will (in theory) cut back on the zerg. Sure some will still zerg, but they’d probably zerg anyways. Others will continue to run straight into a zerg and die like lemmings, that’s fine too!

I know I don’t speak for everyone, but I’m sure most will agree. And that’s what everything has degraded into lately, a zergfest.

(1)This promotes bad play and won’t help anybody improve, all it will do is introduce players afking in hotjoin.
I play bunker and get plenty of points each match because you also play support too, you carry team fights so you should be in team fights. In tpvp this is easy and you can tell your team to cover the point you were on while you support the team fight. So if you are just sitting on a node and getting no points, well you’re actually in need of improving your gameplay rather than ANet giving you points for nothing.

Hotjoins are a different story, completely different playstyle (2)but when I play with a friend the synergy between a Guardian and burst or sustain classes is really good and you can beat people with quite a significant numbers disadvantage. For example my friend and I playing Guardian and Ele were able to keep their entire team from exiting far beyond their spawn a few games in a row.
If you’re playing solo change your build to have more offense (run zerka symbols/GS over hammer or staff) because you’re not playing the gametype otherwise, you’re being played by it.

(3)Yes, the point system is still badly designed but it’s also your fault for getting no points. You need to improve you awareness of enemy location during the game and strategy, in HJ the gameplay is bad, so you have to change your strategy to be good during the game.
But to improve HJ so that points are correctly attributed:
– 200 glory for winning + difference in score divided by 5
– 100 glory for losing
– Personal glory capped at 100
– Personal score of 0 = no glory
Win = 200+(difference)/5 + (0 to 100)
Loss = 100 + (0 to 100)

(4)Unfortunately you’d also have to make HJ with no side swapping and easy to play with your friends. Which ANet seem to think are bad things for some stupid reason.

1. Cool, this happened in SWTOR as well. Let them be a free kill, and get no points while sitting around. You see the fallacy in this correct? If they AFK, they simply die, and wont get the points per kill/skirmish/defender/bunker (defending a node). And, they’re morons who become a free kill. I’m trying to find an issue with this, unless a lot of people do it, I dont see it becoming a problem. And lets face it, you rank up by how much glory you earn.

2. Refer to point 4.

3. It’s my fault that kids who are scared of a 1v1 or 1v2, or 2v2 are zerging? I think not, sir. I get plenty of points when it’s not just a zergfest. And bunker or not, no one is gonna fight 1v5, or even 2v5. You’re just feeding kills to the other team, like the rest of the lemmings I commented on in the OP.

4. Great! So when shall we expect this feature? It’s been quite a few months since launch. This still isnt implemented. It’s random who’s on what team, and random when it comes being put on the rage quitter’s team.

Empiren.6401:

Kneru.8014:

Seriously? This is getting freaking annoying. When someone stealths, the pet should drop targetting, until the owner re-engages and attacks themselves. Pets should not be heatseeking missiles that just lock on to the target after stealth. Fix it, fix it NOW!

AFTER stealth!

Oh poor you, you get attacked after stealth? Lol. You do know thieves can maintain stealth for a pretty long time right?

Sorry, I dont cheese like the WvW kids. I play sPvP. If I stealth, and it’s 1v1 or 1v2 (myself being the solo party), I’m going for the backstab more than likely, depending on the situation. I dont CnD > Wait for Stealth cooldown > CnD like some kids (Even saw one guy do this in sPvP earlier tonight, poor guy must be sad he’s gonna get revealed either way come next patch). :P

Even if you were to Shadow Refuge and get downed, the heat seeking missile (pets) will still start attacking you as soon as SR/any stealth wears off, and now you’re forced to try and kill it, while their owner caps the point.

Wanderer.5471:

Razor.6392:

I love when people try to use common sense in games, like the guy above.

That’s like saying that necros shouldn’t be able to bleed inquest golems because they’re robots.

broken mechanics are broken, no pet or npc should keep agro on a stealthed target.

Yes, common sense is the enemy here. As i said, the larger issue is that it was broken before - for rangers etc to have so much dmg potential for which they have to rely on dumb AIs which can’t compete with classes where players can direct 100% of their dmg potential. It just so happens that what makes sense for balance also makes sense period.

So, what you’re saying is it’s broken, as has been since launch. Which, any one here who played a stealth class, or anyone who has tried to escape a situation where they are completely out numbered, would know since launch. Why are you even arguing this then?

I’m not pointing the finger at just Ranger pets, or Mesmer clones/phantoms, I mean all classes, even my thief’s Ambush/Thieves Guild. It’s cheap, it’s lame, and it needs to be fixed.

If downed state is going to be left in sPvP to give you a chance to recover/rally, then we should all have a chance, an equal chance regardless of class (though many discrepancies remain in the downed state department, which we wont get into here). It seems downed state is here to stay, ergo, this needs to be changed so I’m not blasted by a phantasm duelist, or one of rangers many pets, or another thief’s NPC, etc.

This needs to be fixed. It’s been needing the tweak since launch, and probably way before that. (I’m assuming, I only participated in a couple stress test before launch ^^;)

This is another issue, but with sPvP as a whole. I get it, you want conquest to be a main focus, so you have enough of those maps for tournies. Great!

But, just about every game is Zerg vs Zerg. Personally, I’m not even going to bother if it’s just a zergfest. I’ll leave immediately. It’s not fun. Even in tournies there have been a few groups that just zerg.

Sure, I can go backcap, as a Thief I have the mobility. But, it’s Player vs Player. Backcapping points all day long, is one of lower interest. Plus, I made a Guardian the other day to learn their skills, and maybe take up bunkering. Hard to practice doing that when it’s degraded into nothing but a zergfest.

There also seems to be a lot of lower ranked players starting to pick up sPvP. Great! But if this zergfest continues, I feel like nothing will change. They will learn to play with the zerg, more people will become accustomed to it, cycle continues.

All that needs to happen is give +10 points or so, per… I dont know, 30 seconds? For guarding the area around a node. People will get their glory, it will encourage a more defensive play style, and it will (in theory) cut back on the zerg. Sure some will still zerg, but they’d probably zerg anyways. Others will continue to run straight into a zerg and die like lemmings, that’s fine too!

I know I don’t speak for everyone, but I’m sure most will agree. And that’s what everything has degraded into lately, a zergfest.

Seriously? This is getting freaking annoying. When someone stealths, the pet should drop targetting, until the owner re-engages and attacks themselves. Pets should not be heatseeking missiles that just lock on to the target after stealth. Fix it, fix it NOW!

Saital.4819:

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Well, Heart Seeker has Evade,

Might want to fact check that, buddy.

Someone said that months ago, and people who complained about it just parroted it without fact checks. Still happens to this day. Pretty common.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Saital.4819:

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Well, Heart Seeker has Evade,

Might want to fact check that, buddy.

Sorry for that. I meant the Leap animation and not actually evade. But still, when that thief jumps here and there like a bunny on fire, it’s easy to miss your hits, yes? XD

No, still pretty easy to land your hits. A dumb thief spamming 2222222. Where’s he going to go? Oh yeah, he’s gonna leap right at your face. And if you really wanna kitten them off, there’s immobilize.

…Followed by constant /l (or /s), “22222222, LOL!”

ITT: “Nerf Paper, Scissors is fine.”

- Sincerely,
Rock

D/P?
S/P?
S/D is also fun, and sustained. I’m sure it also kitten es people off when they get dazed back to back by Tactical Strike. >.>

Atticus.7194:

This one is pretty simple, everything should have some means of a counter and atm stealth finishers have none so unless ArenaNet is willing to add a new downed skill to all classes to prevent thieves from finishing you off with impudence then they need to remove this. Thieves shouldn’t be the only class that can negate all other classes downed abilities simply because they have one ability that trumps all others.

Thanks for your time

You can’t do anything if a Mesmer stealth stomps you either. You’re really screwed if they time warp their entire team to haste stomp you. You’re also screwed if they mass invis their team and stomp you.

You can’t do anything if an Engi happens to get stealth and stomps you either. You can’t do anything if they get stability instead and stomp you. You cant do anything if they pop Elixer S and stomp you.

You can’t do anything if a Guardian pops “Stand Your Ground!” and stomps you either… Hell, I could pop Virtue of Courage, grant Aegis to myself and allies, and we can all stomp you at the same time. Regardless of your counter.

And that’s just a couple of the classes. We could go on about Mist Form, etc. But no. Let’s just direct our hate at thieves. In which, if I’m on my Thief, I’ll just pop Signet of Shadows before your hammer, aoe shield, aoe daze, etc goes off. Or Shadowstep off to the side, wait for the knockback, hammer, grappling line, etc, and Shadow Return back causing you to miss anyways.

The point is, if someone skilled/smart enough to counter wants to stomp you, well you’re just gonna get stomped. Now let’s stop all of the hate directed just at thieves, shall we?

PS: Black Powder always works great for stomping. Watching every little downed attack miss makes me chuckle. xD

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Against other thieves, I use my stun break fast enough to not die within one second. Doesn’t matter who the thief is. Obviously mine teleports me, but for other classes they have far more defensive abilities to use after a stun break.

I am sure Mug damage is going to get nerfed for the sake of people like the OP. And it was basically stated in the SOTG.

Yeah, I was thinking the same about Mug. They’ll probably end up nerfing it to the point where it barely does any damage at all, so we’ll have yet another trait we wont want in our builds.

Also, since stun breakers where brought up. For the most part, if I try to Backstab a Warrior, they pop Endure Pain. Engi’s will instictively hit their Elixir S. Mesmer’s will Blink.

While to an extent I can agree about Quickness (Haste, Quickening Zephyr, Frenzy, etc), the main issue that seems to plague newcomers is muscle memory. Once you get that down, the moment you turn to stone, you instictively hit your keybind. …Unless you’re a clicker. In which case, I think you know your problem.

Learn to play a thief. The moment another thief hits me with Basilisk I shadowstep. The only issue is terrain and bugs.

Due to terrain, some times I can only shadowstep so far, which isnt very far. And due to the Basilisk bug (if you’re still stone colored when you Shadowstep, etc, you cannot dodge roll, so the inevitable Heartseeker spam or tap backstab until you lose stealth or it lands) is what gets me killed against other thieves.

Also, the average is not .3, that’s just the highest. The average is supposedly between .150 – .300 milliseconds. I’ve done a couple test online at times and gotten .2 milliseconds before. Also, the fact it shows heartseeker, unless they had Haste, that alone probably took them some time to land. Me thinks you’re just slow to react.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun

According to this, all classes have a 4 stun breakers, with exceptions being Ranger who has 2, and Mesmer who has 5. One of the thief’s stun breakers is haste, which is counter productive. Sure you can break stun, but after you will have no endurance for the duration, which makes it counter productive in practice.

My proposition to you ArenaNet, is that you remove the stun break from Haste, and in return give it to Blinding Powder, for those of us who would rather not sacrifice our endurance.

Signed
— A Thief

Verisuvalise.3615:

Queue for Tournies and the Thieves who HS you when you’re over 50% are the ones you WANT to see.

<snip>

Also,
wait until you run into a caltrops SB thief
wait until you run into a decent S/P thief
wait until you run into a decent D/P thief
wait until you run into a decent P/D thief

D/D is kind of a gimmicky hot-join joke, apart from that and WvW (or even the rare LDB cond build), its really nothing special.

This.

I just started back PvPing a week ago I think, and since I’ve come back I’ve learned more tricks and even tried S/D that I never tried in hotjoin. I usually main D/D, but I also took up D/P the other day.

I love the other D/D backstab thieves that once they fail to go for the intial burst, they fail and spam HS. Even if I’m D/D backstab, there’s more than just the intial burst and spamming HS, I actually use my auto attack more than I probably have HS’ed.

All you have to do is judge the moment they will CnD > Steal > Backstab, and dodge the steal/CnD, it completely screws with us, and the less competent thieves will go straight to spamming HS.

Veris is right as well, our 1-slot is great, especially if you get a haste proc from sigil or trait. It does great damage, with haste it drops them insanely fast, and it doesnt cost init. For me, you have to be very low AND running away for me to HS, otherwise I forget HS is even there.

And yesterday I started really getting into playing D/P, so when they spam HS only to be blinded, it makes me lulz.

little.6509:

I have just come across this- https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Has-anything-been-said-Capricorn

TLDR; This has already been notified to the team; in any case, we will pass it on again today. Thanks for the report.

Haha, that’s my topic. I didnt even see it when I looked for it again. Good to know though. But I really hope it’s fixed soon. Right now when I get to Capricorn in hotjoin I end up quitting back to the Mist. And tournies are somewhat of a pain with the lag. >.<

Usually I see more of the other classes. Yesterday in hotjoin I was against like 5 freaking rangers, all spamming the #5 longbow rain of arrows AoE. That was fun… But yeah, I see a lot of the other classes, but today I have no idea what’s going on.

Really, the lag on this map has been so bad lately, I’m either forced to quit, or it just freezes up completely. It either needs to be removed from the rotation until they can fix it, or put someone on figuring out the issue ASAP. >.<

It feels like Last Refuge gets me killed about as much as it saves me. >.<

Good tip, I’ll remember this next time I switch back to D/D backstab. Been trying S/P and S/D lately since I havent played in a bit, and never tried S/D before. Pretty fun.

I’ve been meaning to try this though, as sometimes they’re running away, Steal’s on CD, and HS just isnt gonna do it. Though, I’m not sure about how I feel running Devourer Venom…. Take’s away from my Shadow Refuge, and I’m not dropping Shadowstep, ever.

That said, if they’re running S/X, you’re probably screwed if they have that Shadow Return from Infy Strike up, and Shadowstep utility. :p

It’s not just PvE that’s being effected by this either. I don’t remember much lag while doing a couple world bosses earlier, but the lag in sPvP right now is kitten unplayable. It’s been spotty since I’ve been doing PvP, but it’s just getting worse and worse.

At first I thought it was me, but I’ve not had an issue like this before. But I mentioned it in map chat during sPvP match and a couple others spoke up as well. I hope this is fixed soon.

It’s simple. Some people wont be happy until thief is removed from the game, or the profession becomes completely useless and becomes a free kill.

I play a thief myself. But even I hate other thieves sometimes due to culling keeping them hidden on screen for another 1-2 seconds, or the perma-evade build that you cant land a single hit on… And I read about timing back to back CnD’s (which, I assume might also be an issue due to culling), so I could see how that’s an issue.

IMO, until those things are fixed, people will whine about thieves. The people who whine afterwards, will be the ones who fall into the group I mentioned above. :/

Heartseeker is cheap. All you have to do is mash the 2 key. If the enemy doesnt have an immobilize/chill, they’re screwed. 2 dodges when the Thief can spam it 3+ times is annoying. As a thief, my answer for that is the chill effect upon switching to my shortbow, but still it’s quite cheap.

The only problem with stealth is culling, which they have stated they are working on but it will take time.

As for flowchart Kens, if you’re eatting every single Shoryuken, you’re pretty dumb. You just simply block the Shoryuken and punish them after. It’s the Kens that mix up and kara-throw you gotta worry about. Not the scrubs. But if they can beat you with a flowchart, it says a lot about you. O.o

Speaking of which the Southern California Regionals are gonna start like next week. I cant wait to watch some great SF players.

ArenaNet… Make this happen!

Okay, Mug does damage on Steal, and anytime you do damage from stealth, your stealth is broken and you are given the revealed debuff. However, if you do the same thing without having steal traited to do damage (Mug), you will steal from them without breaking the stealth.

Also (I’m not sure about from stealth, but I think so) if you have auto attack on for Backstab, the moment you are close enough (right after the steal), the Backstab will go off. What this means is you lose that extra second to reposition yourself between the Steal > Backstab. So if they turn around between when you hit your steal, and before the backstab, you might end up stabbing them in the face, instead of the back.

Hope that helped clear things up.

ZLE.8293:

I am not sure if you understand what you are asking…
The normal way of combining C&D+Steal+BS is you hit C&D and while it’s animation is going you hit fast Steal(traited with Mug).This Stealths you and position it near the target.Next you hit BS and voila.
Now from what i can get from your question is can you first go in stealth and then Steal+BS.The answer is yes,if you do not trait Mug,and if you disable auto-attack so you can manualy hit BS to be able to position behind the target!

And there’s this. The usual setup of doing this is pre-casting Cloak and Dagger (it has a 1/2 second (.5) cast time, followed by Steal. What happens is you end up stealing from them, and right after you’ve shadowstepped with steal the CnD goes off. You take a split second, make sure you’re at their back or reposition yourself, and hit backstab.

You could also use Hidden Thief in the Shadow Arts line, to stealth you when you steal without the use of CnD. My issue with this has always been that without CnD thrown into the combination, it feels much less bursty, so I stuck with (precast)CnD>Steal>Backstab.

In either 2 of the above you can have Steal traited to Mug. As you will actually end up mugging them right before the stealth goes off.

Yeah, I used to love Scorpion Wire as much as Shadowstep. It was a great setup for SW > Stealth > Backstab. And I can only imagine the face of all the other players I yanked off edges and watched them explode. But the last time I used it, it continuously just knocked them down without pulling.

I’m very offensive when I play, so I actually prefer to have Scorpion Wire working compared to using Shadow’s Refuge. Idk, SR just doesnt suit my playstyle.

Incurafy.6329:

I’m sorry to be this guy, but “culling needs to be fixed!” – You don’t say?! :O

Here’s Anets words on culling; it’s not just a simple fix:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/arenanet-tracker/topic/245102-can-you-fix-it-culling/

As for Quickness, it’s OP on all classes, not just Thief. It should be changed to 33% like Swiftness and like it was in GW1.

Oh, you’ll forgive me as I havent been over to GW2Guru in quite some time. ^^;

And that’s why I did not mention just Haste, but also Quickening Zephyr and Frenzy, etc (cause I dont remember Mesmer’s 10 second quickness elite. >.>). Frenzy however less so, cause most just use that for a BC > 100B combo that every newb sees coming and can avoid it, but I’d definitely have more health after Shadowstepping a BC.

ZLE.8293:

Incurafy.6329:

As for Quickness, it’s OP on all classes, not just Thief. It should be changed to 33% like Swiftness and like it was in GW1.

Quickness is IMO not OP,but plain Stupid.They should either remove it ,or just change it to 100% faster CD recovery/Ini recovery!

reikken.4961:

It feels like thief’s damage is balanced around haste, which really sucks for all parties involved

Where did you get this from?In SPvP from 20 thieves,10 are BS,3 are P/D bleed,3 are S/D,3 are P/P and 2 are D/P(at least this is what i observe).And only PW and Unload builds can benefit from Haste.Backstab builds have the optimal UI setup as following:Shadowstep,Assassins Signet,Shadow Refuge,i don’t see place for Haste.
P/D also don’t need it because they do steady damage,not burst.

Eh, you could work in Haste if you wanted to. Hell I’ve done Sin’s, Shadowstep, and Scorpion Wire when I first started playing Thief. However, Scorpion Wire seemed pretty buggy last I played, and always knocked them down without pulling them to me, so it was frustrating. Was fun yelling, “Get over here!”, and yanking someone off an edge, followed by CnD > Backstab.

I understand it takes time to fix things, especially something like culling. No problem there, I can wait. But I think most of us agree quickness just cheapens the game by removing the ability to react fast enough.

You said make it a 33% cap, and restore init. How about 33% cap, Thief: Restore Init, Everyone else: Reset CDs. :O

xiv.7136:

I actually wonder if you might have hit on the solution to all the thief / mesmer problems.

Instead of stealth turning thieves invisible (and making them completely disappear from the game world), it could give them a cloaking/distortion effect like in planetside (like the predator basically) and make them un-targettable for those few seconds.

This means no more culling, since they are still there on screen, and also balances stealth out a bit.

I feel stealth doesnt need balancing. People will cry regardless if we are invisible or distorted. However, atleast in GW2 you can hit someone with regular attacks (not just AoE), and save AoE for the nuking when someone drops down a Shadows Refuge.

The following was a reply to thread, that thread however seems to have been deleted. So I will post it here.

I play a Thief myself. However, there have been times where I am unable to Shadowstep out of a Basilisk Venom. Either because of

1) Culling… (Usually the main culprit… kittening hate the culling in this game…)
2) Haste…

Take this into account. If combined with Haste, CnD has a .25 second cast time. Backstab drops to .125, as well as Lotus Strike. Now, I feel my reflexes are pretty good. And I’ve felt there have been many times where as soon as I hit my Shadowstep keybind (“E” key, BTW), to break the Basilisk Venom, I’m already dead.

The average human reaction time is 150 milliseconds to 300 milliseconds (or .15 – .30 seconds). When combined with culling, you might not even notice you are being hit until you see your health drop, and by then, it’s already too late.

The solution? Culling needs to be fixed, and all sources of quickness (Haste, Frenzy, Quickening Zephyr, etc), removed from the game. Unless you have awareness of the thief’s presence, you’re not going to expect the initial combo. There have been plenty of times when I see the Thief, and am better to react to the Backstab or Pistol Whip setups.

However, if you do not know we are there, and Haste + Culling issues combined, the opponent will die simply before you appear on their screen. This isnt Planetside 2 where, like Infiltrators, we have a distortion effect. We are completely invinsible. Therefore, the above problems (culling and haste), need to be resolved before we have any more calls for nerfs against thieves.

I dont want Thieves to end up being the Operatives from SWTOR, where their DPS specs were constantly nerfed into oblivion for a while. I love my Thief, but these issues need to be addressed.

Though, I guess if I wanted to I actually could drop something and grab Haste, and destroy people before they even notice it. Or I could wait and let the skill cap of thieves and other players go up, while I snipe people in Planetside 2… I’m thinking… the latter.

Leadfoot.9071:

I admit to be an average-ish casual player – all I do in this game is spvp.

I want to like shadow step, but I have a very hard time using it as a stun breaker due to the need to target it somewhere on the screen. Is this just a L2P/practice issue or is there some trick to it? Am I the only one who often takes roll for initiative just because if I find myself stuck in a 100B I can just hit that key and instantly be out of harms way?

Shadowstep: Learn it, live it, love it.

It is a practice/muscle memory issue. You could combat the ground targeting 1 of 2 ways:

1. Double tap your Shadowstep keybind. Once will activate it, the next will teleport you. This is good if you’re not sure on the range of Shadowstep or other ground targetted abilities until you get more familiar with the range. Be careful however, if you tap it too quickly and hit it a third time without realizing it, you would activate Shadow Return.

2. Turn on fast cast ground targeting. This cuts out the milisecond between double tapping your keybind, and probably what most prefer. However if you’re not sure on the range, leave this off for a little while longer.

Others have mentioned Withdraw and RFI, while great, does not hold the versatility of situations as Shadowstep. With practice and the more you play, Shadowstepping out of a Bulls Charge/Basilisk Venom/Devourer Venom/etc will become second nature.

I know for me there have been a few times where I see another Thief and already anticipate the Basilisk > CnD > Steal > Backstab combo. This ends up with me Shadowstepping to avoid the backstab, turning around and doing the same to them.

That, and Shadowstep comes as an answer for just about everything to me. Stunned? Shadowstep. Need to catch up with someone? Shadowstep infront of them, turn around hit CnD. Need to get away? Shadowstep. Need to get up on that ledge to get into the tower faster? Shadowstep. …Well, you get the idea.

Hang in there and let muscle memory do the rest.

Because since I tried the Thief in FFXI for it’s treasure hunting skill, I fell in love with it’s for it’s Sneak Attack & Trick Attack setups, plus Flee, and Hide. It was my first MMO and I’ve played the stealthy class ever since in MMORPGs.

FFXI: Thief
FFXIV: …Didnt have a Thief class, but it did have the Thief skills, I was going to get all of my old abilities from each class and combine them into my own playstyle.
WoW: Rogue
Rift: Rogue
SW:TOR: Assassin/Operative
GW2: Thief

I guess it’s only natural. Too many years of playing the Tenchu series, and now Assassin’s Creed. It’s a playstyle I love. Even though Deception spec Assassin’s in SW:TOR wasnt as great over all, Madness (DoT) and Darkness (Tank) bored the crap out of me. I’ll play different specs of that class and others like I do here in GW2. But I will always prefer the burst spec.

I kind of want to say let the nerfs happen, as long as they buff another side of the thief. This will give me more time to play with my victim beyond instantly destroying them unless they are bunker build, and give me more practice in when to dodge.

On the otherside, I also know when we, the thieves, are nerfed, the players on the opposing end will have nothing to use as an excuse for dying. Though they will continue to cry and never accept the fact that it is the most adaptable player (like species) that survives, and will continue to cry for nerfs because they are too unskilled to beat good players in general (for all classes).