Guild Wars 2

My only wish is that their damage would stay the same, but the amount of shots from Rapid Fire would be reduced from 10 to say, 7? Given that I am currently fighting someone, and not too focused on finding the Ranger first, or else an enemy thief would kill me, it sucks to dodge Rapid Fire and still be killed by about 7 other shots.

The range, the damage, everything else I can deal with. But the amount of shots fired feels a bit too much. At least allow me to dodge during Rapid Fire to mitigate most of the damage. Not spend both dodges and still pretty much die.

Aside from that, yeah, pretty easy. Kite around a tree and break LoS if you have to. I actually stood behind a tree yesterday in Khylo. Poor Ranger, Rapid Fired all 10 of those arrows right into the tree. Didnt do a single thing to me. :P

Sunshine.5014:

Keep it there. Only the daily grinders and newbies play it (which they should do).

Want a real match? Join an arena game.

^This. It doesnt even have to be ranked, you can play unranked, I do. I’ve actually had some pretty fun matches in unranked, even today. Had 1 a couple hours ago where we lost by 2 points. 500-498. If only I could have killed that Warrior slightly faster, we would have won.

Will you end up in a 4v5? Sure, once in a while. But no where near as bad as the constant 4v5 or 3v5 you find in Practice Mode. Or the constant spectate > autobalance > join winning team as someone else said.

I’ve been playing unranked since the patch where they made the UI changes. I wouldnt even consider going back to practice unless it’s something new I’ve never played before. Play unranked/ranked and let all the team swappers/ragequitters swap teams all they want in Practice Mode.

I highly doubt this will ever be implemented because of the reasons listed above but:

Giltheryn.8603:

My options in that case are to lose out on potentially important communication from that player (calling numbers of enemies at a point and such), or unblock them and experience the vitriol that caused me the block them in the first place.

The answer to this is to leave them blocked. The people who are truly toxic and screaming at the team in all capitalized letters and calling them idiots will not be contributing to the team. They’ll just be raging that they’re aren’t being carried to a win. You learn that when you read the League of Legends forums enough.

Might want to give it a different name. Pretty misleading. :P

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil_of_Corruption

gebrechen.5643:

There is no sportsmanship in this game. I played 25 practice games today and not one was nearly fair. Most of the time it ended up in 3v5 or something like that and no one from the other team wanted to switch sides.
In practice the people don’t care about pvp, they care about winning and having “stats”.

spvp is in a really bad shape at the moment.

That’s why I actually moved from doing the usual hotjoin to nothing but Unranked. Once in a while you’ll have someone who ragequits, but not nearly as bad as practice. If you feel confident enough in your overall knowledge of the class you intend to play, I would say it’s a much better experience if you go to Unranked. Minus all the premades you sometimes run in to. -.-

I assume he’s getting the might from going into stealth due to the Hidden Assassin minor trait in the Shadow Arts line. You will probably get at most 8-10 might stacks from that trait and Shadow Refuge.

Arikyali.5804:

The distance advantage of double shatter, is negated by the thief’s mobility. Maintaining constant pressure, and never letting up, might be the best option. Daze them before they can CnD. A thief can easily disengage to recover before leaping back in the fight, and it doesn’t take long to recover.

If you yourself maintain a good distance away from the thief, a thief can double the distance away from you when they choose to disengage. Fighting in a small area will reduce the thief’s mobility, while you can still pile shatters on them.

Arikyali pretty much nailed it.

As someone who mains Thief and also loves Mesmer, I’m not so sure there’s much you can do. I feel like I do better kittenter than I do Lockdown(but that might be because I just started playing Lockdown a couple days ago) , especially the S/D thieves. The times I usually can beat other Thieves on my Mesmer is opening from range with GS 4 > 2 > Dodge > Diversion Shatter > Mind Stab and go from there.

The issue is most thieves (myself included) run Infiltrator’s Signet lately along with Signet of Agility, Shadowstep, or Shadow Refuge thrown in, possibly a few others like Blinding Powder. S/D with at least 3 points into Acrobatics has 3 dodges, plus Signet of Agility for full endurance + condition cleanse, Flanking Strikes/Disabling Shot (SB3). That’s a lot of dodges to negate Mind Wrack, Diversion, Signet of Dominance, Mantra of Distraction, iLeap/Swap, or dodge Phantasm Damage, etc.

Mass Invisibility + Decoy doesnt matter when we thieves can CnD off clones, Blinding Powder, Shadow Refuge, or for D/P Black Powder+Heartseeker through the smoke field. Even with that, your Decoy/MI stealth will wear off way before a stacked Shadow Refuge unless you can Illusionary Wave them out with GS5.

Plus there’s the gap closers of Steal, Infy Signet, Shadowstep. All in all there’s just too many things that counter what little stealth and mobility Mesmers have, and then there are dodges for everything else.

I would suggest the opening I mentioned first, Diversion should some good damage on them in the opening, unless they are already fighting someone else, in which case they will probably blow up instantly, lol.

If they stealth, try dodge rolling when you expect a Backstab/Tactical Strike to proc your clone on dodge, and it might screw them up hitting a clone and getting revealed for 4 seconds.

Go back to MetaBattle and learn the Phase Retreat spots, the more gap closers they have to blow the better you’ll be able to (eventually) kite. As well as the Lord Helseth video on kiting with Staff. This is just great knowledge to know all around vs anything really.

Use Illusionary Wave/Chaos Storm to stop thieves from being able to get into stealth through BP+HS, and possibly follow up with your shatters after the knockdown.

Illusionary Wave can knock them out of Shadow Refuge which instantly gives revealed the moment they are knocked out of the SR area. Chaos Storm is good if they (or anyone really) is trying to revive someone downed on top of Shadow Refuge.

Coloxeus.3480:

well gotta quit the game for a while. Archeage Online will be release nxt week!

Which is funny, considering I’ve been following ArcheAge, but with the recent 1.2 patch they seemed to have kittened a lot of people off. And Trion seems to have no actual say on what goes into the game. Big daddy XLGames (Korean company) seems to wear the pants in that Developer/Publisher relationship. Go look at their forums and see about Archeum rates (component for all high end crafted gear, and since crafted is best…) haven’t been increased, some even think they decreased. But you can find all the Archeum you want in gambling boxes…in the cash shop. >.>

I ended up coming back to check out GW2 since ArcheAge seems like it’s going to be a failure, especially here in the West. Ahh, the joys of Buy-to-Play model. Maybe I’ll check out AA once Trion gets their crap worked out.

Lokheit.7943:

Is this a group of friends planning to make loads of rant threads on the same day?

Seriously guys, what’s happened today to see all those text brick walls with so many rants? I’m doing great on my Thief in all enviroments, there are many things that need polishing of course, same as other classes, but there is no need of this many text wall rants.

Any Thief can kill noobs in hot join. But, how viable/versatile is Thief to the meta in tPvP, really? >.>

Sons.5493:

Thieves are in a pathetic meta status and yet all i see is people still crying for nerfs.

Heck i would even dare to say thieves are the lowest pvp tier in tpvp.

and i don’t really see arenanet willing to fix any of these, even if LS was a nice addition, that’s it…. bring Dancing dagger back, up the PW damage, bring radical changes to P/P….anything

And yet things like trap ranger and 1shot shatter every 8 seconds are completly fine.

What’s with all the mindless nerf-asking threads?!

Because, every class that utilizes stealth in an MMO has been cried about since the dawn of MMOs. Why? Because people are dumb, and dont understand how to counter stealth mechanics in their respective games.

Thieves could do 0 damage, but someone would still cry for a nerf because the Thief stealthed and ran away, and they didnt get the kill they wanted.

Certain things could have used the nerf after the game launched. Assassin’s Signet for example. That 150% was just a bit too much. But now, it’s better for it since it adds an overall 65% more.

Beyond that, I can’t really think of anything that ever needed to be nerfed, maybe Dancing Dagger, but only a little bit. They definitely over nerfed it. Everything else seems to be the dev’s caving into the QQ (i.e. Pistol Whip, when the morons that cried about it should have been running a stun break), or deciding to change things on a whim (i.e, Shortbow’s Trickshot, Reaveled debuff…).

But, as long as thieves exist, and the good ones can get a kill with proper dodging, positioning, etc, someone will complain. Happens in MMO’s, and it will continue to happen in MMO’s. Because some people are just too dense/lazy to learn how to counter.

I hate to say it, but yeah, that would make us OP. If we have Shadow Step/Refuge, then that frees up atleast 2 slots on our utility bar, which for me means I would be running constant Devourer Venom, Sin Signet, and perhaps Blinding Powder for quick BS setups. And that would definitely make us OP, IMO.

However, I could get behind having Smoke Bomb, useful, free stealth when you HS through it, and could help us defensively when waiting for the opponent to close the gap and firing shots at us.

I do however like the thought Pope put into his, but I have an issue with one slight thing.

PopeUrban.2578:

• F4: Dust Trap>Ignite (Mini-Smokescreen)
  Prepare a Dust Trap (line trap) at your location. When triggered with the “ignite” skill, this trap will block projectiles for three seconds and blind any foes that pass through it. Does not function as a combo field. Useful for pre-setting an escape route or on the fly as a personal/party defensive tool.

While good for the blind, it would be meh at best. Sure it can block projectiles, but by the time they activate it, it means they’re already within melee range.

Scourge.6127:

Read that entire thing in a high energy salesperson voice, not disappointed.

I read this with the Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man salesman voice. Also not dissappointed.

Pandabro.8743:

I laughed.

Listing three things that could change tomorrow and using the word “Never”.

Login.5102:

[SNIP]

Gw 2 is not even a year old, and has a lot of potential.

Both of these sum up my thoughts.

Also, I really dont understand why there is always a “blahblah game will be better” spiel in MMO forums lately. The same people who said it, will nitpick the next MMO Jesus when it comes out, get kitten , and quit. Then either move on to the next big thing, or go back to their old one. And then get laughed at on forums. >.>

Just stop, it makes you look silly.

Goloith.6349:

[SNIP]
I really hope ANET gives this professions something much better than it has now. :-)

P.S. after rolling a Thief I can say even more emphasis that Heat Seeker needs a nerf. There is absolutely no reason that any profession can have this heavy hitting skill with this small of cost. Spam, Spam, Spam is not skillful.
My suggestions:
-Make it cost more (5 initiative) or
-Shorten it’s range (or remove the leap)
-Reduce it’s effectiveness if used consecutively.

Other than that I have immense respect for the people that play this profession!

It’s good when other players try out another class, and realize the grass isnt always greener on the otherside. I will stick to thief as my main because it’s a playstyle I enjoy. If only there were more people like you (in MMOs in general, not just here) I wouldnt be worried that one day Thief will be nerfed into the ground.

That said, I cant agree with the HS costing 5 init, or removing the leap.

1. Black Powder has an Init. cost of 6, so our Black Powder > Heartseeker > Backstab combo already cost 9 Init. Making it cost 11, I feel would really hurt the build.

2. If the opponent is kind of close, low health, running away, Heartseeker. For everything else, there’s MasterCa… Err, Shadowshot. Or if they’re close enough, might as well just use the #1 chain and conserve init. Cause there’s always a chance that someones gonna interrupt the fight, and you’re gonna need the init to fight/run away. Removing the leap would make HS about as worthless as Dancing Dagger, or DB in the middle of a DPS set. >.>

I do however agree that it’s effectiveness when used consecutively, or even just it’s damage when the target is above 25%+, should just be nerfed into the ground, and leave >25% where it is. I’m for the use of Heartseeker at times, but it’s annoying when you break a stun, and they spam HS x3 back to back.

Then again, I’ve had times where I was immobilized and someone was spamming HS at me. I just switched to Shortbow and used Disabling Shot timed perfectly with the HS hit to evade, so there wouldnt be as many moments like that.

Silver.4798:

I’m learning to make the full switch from d/d condition to burst, and I must say I’ve been having a ton of fun as of late going S/D and D/P, switching up with S/P and SB whenever I get bored. Biggest adjustment I’m trying to make is to learn how to use stealth offensively (in my condition build my stealth was purely defensive, I try to stay stealthed as long as possible after I stack my bleeds so I heal while they die, regen my initiative and do it again).

I’m still in the “just wing it and see how it feels!” mode, but I do wonder what thieves with more experience do in these situations, so I’m hoping y’all can help me out again as you have before (much appreciated!)

In the S/D weapon set, I basically IS -> autoattack -> flanking strike if I see a hit coming -> SS back, reposition if needed and do it again. Rarely do I actually stealth and if I do it’s because I’m getting swarmed. Is there a way to use stealth offensively here? The 1 attack off of stealth in sword feels underwhelming, yea opponent is dazed for a sec. Meh.

D/P, obv u BS off of stealth, the question is how do I manage the revealed buff until I can stealth again? Generally I SS->BP->autoattack x5 -> HS -> BS -> BP again and autoattack -> HS -> BS. After I take out maybe 2-3 targets I’m out of initiative, so at this point now what?

I appreciate all inputs!

I met a Japanese player the other day in hotjoin just messing around, he was pretty good and used S/D, D/P. It seemed he would wear the opponent down with S/D, and then CnD off S/D for Stealth, and swap to D/P for the Backstab and stomp. D/P’s Black Powder is awesome for stomps.

Try finding the twitch streams of other players and see what they do as well. You will also learn quite a few tricks/playstyles like that, and when it comes to SB you can learn some good Infy Arrow shots you might not know right now.

I really want to try the S/D, D/P setup myself, but I’m just too attached to my Shortbow. Not just for Infy Arrow, but Choking Gas (-33% healing) and Clusterbomb are just so useful, and I dont want to be in the center of the fight all the time. :/

P.S. I’ll be happy when we get spectator mode.

Dual.8953:

Kneru.8014:

Dasorine.1964:

The problem is your proposing a nerf to something that never really needed nerfing in the first place, even if they reverted the +1s revealed nerf that wasn’t needed something like this STILL wouldn’t be needed, stealth isn’t powerful enough to warrant being weakened and penalized yet more, the fact that some people think it is comes down to new people to pvp not really understanding it and wanting an easier time against it, but the moment you start putting it on a level THEY are comfortable with you’ve removed all use of it against the experienced players.

I’m proposing an idea on the off chance they do decide the nerf stealth, in hopes they would use my idea over something like, 3 seconds revealed no matter what. Honestly, I dont want them to nerf stealth any more than the rest of you. But on the off chance they do, I’d rather suggest something I feel would be better than what they have talked about before.

Thief is my main, and I’ve dabbled with other classes, I know how easy it is to counter.

I’m still assuming you’re D/P. Because that’s the set that’d be most effected by the stealth revealed no matter what nerf. You’re nerf idea lets D/P operate at 100% capacity at the cost of messing up D/D, S/D and P/D.
The revealed no matter what nerf is better because it doesn’t ruin the three x/D builds. And D/P will survive. The set has most blinds of any thief set (one being a combo field of all things), has an on demand interupt, backstab and two gap closers, and will not lose and of them from getting revealed no matter what.

I was running D/D for a while before I logged out last night, I usually bounce between the two.

Dasorine.1964:

The problem is your proposing a nerf to something that never really needed nerfing in the first place, even if they reverted the +1s revealed nerf that wasn’t needed something like this STILL wouldn’t be needed, stealth isn’t powerful enough to warrant being weakened and penalized yet more, the fact that some people think it is comes down to new people to pvp not really understanding it and wanting an easier time against it, but the moment you start putting it on a level THEY are comfortable with you’ve removed all use of it against the experienced players.

I’m proposing an idea on the off chance they do decide the nerf stealth, in hopes they would use my idea over something like, 3 seconds revealed no matter what. Honestly, I dont want them to nerf stealth any more than the rest of you. But on the off chance they do, I’d rather suggest something I feel would be better than what they have talked about before.

Thief is my main, and I’ve dabbled with other classes, I know how easy it is to counter.

Incurafy.6329:

#rant {

I am so sick and kittening tired of reading about cheese this and cheese that; they’re just playstyles and no amount of “lol cheese play” is going to change the fact that these valid playstyles and/or builds are exactly that: valid.

Anybody who has a huge problem countering the CnD > Mug > BS combo needs to carry a stunbreaker and practice their reaction time until they improve (blasphemy!); and anybody who believes that CnD chaining is actually a problem needs to learn how to kittening dodge.

Honestly, the only thing that needs to happen to Thieves is reducing the revealed debuff back to 3 seconds now that culling no longer exists and Thieves can be properly seen in WvW where 99% of the complaints came from.

Thieves have never been a problem in sPvP where culling didn’t exist and all the change did was nerf the crap out of us in PvE and reduce our PvP dps too.

Quit trying to change our class for the worse and acting as though CnD chaining is “LOLCHEESEUSOBADNERFITLOL” and a kittening problem when it’s absolutely not a problem at all and never was.

ARGH!

}

Apparently you dont get it. And I actually run 2 stun breaks, RfI/Shadowstep, though it had nothing to do with topic. My fear is people will complain about the chain CnD and A Net will nerf us (I say us, as I play thief myself) into the ground. But, forget it.

You kids automatically think anyone, even if they play a thief, that suggest anything different than the way it currently is, just wants thief nerfed into the ground. Change happens in life, including MMO’s. But no matter what, you will cry and make some off topic remark that basically goes back to L2P, when I play a thief myself and have no problem with other thieves.

I’m just afraid since the +1 second revealed nerf did nothing, A Net will continue to nerf stealth to a point where it’s worthless. I’d rather give them an idea they could try in practice, than having us nerfed into oblivion. Hopefully my own topic gets locked, cause most of you dont seem to get that, or you cant read. I’m done. -.-

Dual.8953:

How is the option that still lets me keep up my blind, daze and regen defense, worse then the one that weakens that and makes it so I have to wait 2 more auto attacks before I can re-establish my defenses?

What I’m suggesting is that you can’t use CnD back to back for stealth, but you could use say, CnD > Wait for Stealth to wear off > Blinding Powder/Shadow Refuge/Last Refuge/BP+HS, etc to stealth.

With my idea you would still be able to utilize stealth back to back for Tactical Strike, Cloaked in Shadow proc, Shadow’s Rejuvenation, etc, just not by using the same ability like CnD back to back.

I’m not sure if your post didnt make sense, or you just didnt read mine thoroughly.

Drawing Guy.3701

(1) I personally hate the 4 sec cooldown myself. It fits no real attack cycle or skill, so you’re just kittening for that extra second.

Unfortunately while I considered the ‘no matter what’ 3s reveal, it actually affects nothing but CnD spam

(2)My Suggestion to fix stealth:
- Revert back to the 3 secs reveal on hit, no reveal on time out.
- Stealth does not stack.
- Shadow Refuge now gives a 15 second stealth on cast [/b]

Agreed.

(2) Then people will cry more, and ArenaNet who takes into consideration the bads, will nerf us even more. The extra second isnt necessary, 3 seconds revealed on time out isnt neccassary. However, 3 seconds on time out I believe would hurt us worse, and I’m afraid A Net will resort to this. I’d prefer a small internal cooldown to stop CnD from putting us in stealth, than 3 seconds of revealed everytime.

Jinks.2057:

I got an idea

Leave thieves alone. The ONLY thing thieves have going for them is BS build for tPvP. Thieves do have some decent d/p 1v1 specs but in real PvP these specs are worthless.

In WvW we can get more build diversity due to the rule set. This allows thieves more wiggle room to kill but if you are dying to solo thieves its nothung other than you being severely outplayed.

Agreed. However, the 4 second revealed nerf did nothing to affected chain CnD. I’d prefer and ICD (specific to each ability) compared to being revealed no matter what.

Really, I play a thief. I play the stealth/burst class in every MMO I’ve played since I played Thief in Final Fantasy XI (11, Eleven, for those of you that cant count…). I’m just trying to suggest an idea that may help with noobs complaining about CnD spam, before we end up like Operatives in SWTOR.

How did Operatives in SWTOR end up you ask? People complained about their burst from stealth, until they were nerfed into the ground and completely useless. Deception (mid tree) Assassin you had to be very good at, or you were worthless in RWZ (Ranked Warzones), as you were probably even more squishy than thieves into this game.

I’d really prefer them to revert and undo the +1 second to revealed nerf, honestly, 1 second is a long time in PvP. But if I had the choice of having an internal Stealth CD on individual skills, compared to 3 seconds revealed every time, I believe I’d rather take the former.

I used to agree with this, but I think 3 seconds revealed (whether you attack or not) will hurt us more than I think some of you realize. (which I’m afraid A Net will do) You will pretty much need Fleet of Shadow to use stealth more offensively and keep up with people who spam dodge/evade and land that Backstab/Tactical Strike/Whatever.

Rayya.2591:

Kneru.8014:

A way to fix the cheesing? ICD on individual stealth abilities.

Hear me out. The issue with cheezing thieves in WvW is spamming CnD back to back. But how about a way that doesnt effect all aspects of thief players, just WvW cheezing?

Lets take CnD for example. Give it an internal cooldown of say, 4-5 seconds before you can use that specific ability to go into stealth again. Now you have to utilize more than one skill for keeping your stealth up.

This forces you to use something else, blinding powder, BP + HS, SR, etc. Put an internal cooldown on each of these abilities (to stop a group of thieves grouping together and cheezing, but maybe not as neccassary).

This wont hurt those who dont cheese, and allow them to continue doing what they do in each part of the game they like PvE/PvP. I think it would be a good solution to stop the chain CnD’s, while still letting thieves that play it more offensively and being able to use stealth skills/utilities as they see fit.

The ICD on CnD is definitely neccessary. But I’m not sure how well it would work on the other utilities (Blinding Powder for example) if someone where to do it near you. Maybe those wouldnt be as neccessary if at all needed. However, I think it would be a better alternative than +1 second to revealed, or 3 seconds of revealed no matter what. As once all of your stealth skills are blown, all you will have is CnD if you run X/D.

why you want to bash the thieves again ? isn’t 4 seconds revealed after an backstab enough ?
why don’t you try to find an solution to bash perma retailation ?
or try to make some calculations to nerf perma regeneration from elementalists
Even better, why not add an 30 seconds cooldown for mesmers clone on dodge

Whoa, when I made this topic, I said I was against the 4 second revealed. I’m against that, as thief is my main. Don’t get all kitten at me because you dont want anything to change. But I’d rather have something done other than getting 3 second reveal no matter what.

ensoriki.5789:

If you are not going to implement reveal when stealth drops then the solution is to nerf Cloak and Daggers damage to the ground and force it into a pure utility skill as with Black Powder, and Infiltrator’s Arrow as the other slot 5s and redistributing the damage elsewhere.

CnD was nerfed a long time ago, it’s damage doesnt need another nerf.

In hopes someone will read this, and due to formatting being screwed up it seems, I will add this.

I’m afraid that A Net will resort to giving us revealed no matter what. This isnt a QQ topic about thieves in WvW, as I havent tried that (yet). And chain CnD is useless in sPvP. My main concern is that ANet will nerf us into the ground to the point were it affects all aspects of the game PvE/PvP/WvW. Some of you, dont seem to get this point in my post… But, its the internet, what did I expect. -.-

Cactus.2710:

I’m confused … because Death Blossom is a dagger/dagger ability. I use Death Blossom all the time in WvW because it is an evade and because it stacks bleeds. I admit that I don’t see it used by others at all as often as I use it, but I suspect that most other thieves try to save their initiative for CnD. I try not to rely so much on burst and I trait for the three extra initiative points so that I can use Death Blossom more often, and also so that I can leap more often with Heartseeker when I’m pursuing someone. I’m not saying that’s better … only that I prefer to play that way.

When it comes to sPvP, a lot of thieves use LDB. But a condi thief wouldn’t use CnD unless they are P/D. CnD is 6 init, LDB is 6 init. CnD on a D/D LDB Condi thief is a waste of init. :p

brunohstein.9038:

Why is CnD chaining a problem?

It doesn’t do much damage, but it’s just annoying to try and combat, like LDB spam.

I dont have a problem with it in sPvP, only seen one person do it there, and it didnt work very well at all for them. But with all the people complaining about chaining CnD in WvW (I havent even played that aspect yet >.<), I’d rather they make this change, than the +1 revealed or 3 seconds of revealed no matter what change.

Taril.8619:

Crafting is of course the quickest way to level any character.

But for PvEing up to 80 I’d have to say:

Condition Build
D/D + Shortbow
Signet of Malice/Caltrops/Shadow Refuge/Signet of Shadows
Carrion/Rabid Armour (Malign, Ravaging or Lingering at lower levels)

Key Traits:
Uncatchable – Trickery 10
Trickster – Trickery 20
Quick Recovery – Acrobatics 20
Assassin’s Reward – Acrobatics 20

Optional traits:
Opportunist – Critical Strikes 15
Serpent’s Touch – Deadly Arts 5
Potent Poison – Deadly Arts 10
Lotus Poison – Deadly Arts 15

Group up a few enemies, drop Caltrops and Death Blossom and Dodge through them to stack up bleeds. SoS to give movement speed to help reduce downtime, and Shadow Refuge to make quick escapes and to collect Places of Power skill points.

This is also a good spec to farm at 80. Cluster Bomb and Dagger Storm is great for taggin ALL the mobs!

With Signet of Malice/Assasin’s Reward/and possibly Slowed Pulse (Shadow Arts) you can keep your health up while tagging all the mobs and letting them bleed out.

Goloith.6349:

I’m hoping to run a condition Thief, should I be worried?

The only thing they said specifically in the SotG that I remember was Mug. However, I think they said they dont have any plans to change Backstab. Also, they talked about buffing Engi’s and Thieves when it comes to conditions. If anything, you will get a buff, where DPS thieves might get a nerf to Mug.

A way to fix the cheesing? ICD on individual stealth abilities.

::::::Note::::

I play Thief. I would rather A Net revert the 4 second revealed nerf, and no choose to go with the 3 seconds revealed no matter what.

This note has been added because some of you apparently cannot read that far into my post to realize this… -.-

Hear me out. The issue with cheezing thieves in WvW is spamming CnD back to back. But how about a way that doesnt effect all aspects of thief players, just WvW cheezing?

Lets take CnD for example. Give it an internal cooldown of say, 4-5 seconds before you can use that specific ability to go into stealth again. Now you have to utilize more than one skill for keeping your stealth up.

This forces you to use something else, blinding powder, BP + HS, SR, etc. Put an internal cooldown on each of these abilities (to stop a group of thieves grouping together and cheezing, but maybe not as neccassary).

This wont hurt those who dont cheese, and allow them to continue doing what they do in each part of the game they like PvE/PvP. I think it would be a good solution to stop the chain CnD’s, while still letting thieves that play it more offensively and being able to use stealth skills/utilities as they see fit.

The ICD on CnD is definitely neccessary. But I’m not sure how well it would work on the other utilities (Blinding Powder for example) if someone where to do it near you. Maybe those wouldnt be as neccessary if at all needed. However, I think it would be a better alternative than +1 second to revealed, or 3 seconds of revealed no matter what. As once all of your stealth skills are blown, all you will have is CnD if you run X/D.

randomfightfan.4091:

Redscope.6215:

You do realize that the added second was a lesser nerf than what they were going to do to stealth right? They were about to make stealth cast revealed every time it went down regardless of how you come out of it. Massive thief QQ changed their mind.

Actually, I like to believe this happened:
Anet tried to nerf Stealth, but it stealthed up and Anet missed. They went off in a different direction and stealth got away with minor injuries. Stealth is so OP it can escape the nerf bat!

I very VERY much so feel that this stealth change is insanely worse than revealed on stealth exit. Just be aggressive and use the stealth attack then you’ll never feel like you were nerfed. And if you need to be invis for longer, use other stealth skills to keep the stealth uptime up longer

Well, lets be honest, stealth isnt the god mode some claim/feel it is. But A Net had to do something besides telling people to L2P.

That said, they need to revert the change (-1 sec on Revealed), and find another way other than that/3 second reveal no matter what, and figure out another way to stop the cheesing.

Even if they did 3 second revealed to matter what, if I’m playing another class the thief is gonna be a free kill. It would make Shadow Refuge even more required.

If I’m on another class all I would have to due is dodge/port to the point you would have to blow a utility to catch up before stealth runs out, and you’re revealed before you can hit Backstab. Now you’re pretty much dead.

If Mesmer – blink or decoy, wait out their stealth, maybe switch to staff, throw out a chaos storm, or use the #2 staff (forget the name). Hell, hit Illusionary Wave and there goes half your stealth time.

Guardian – Use Hammer #5 to keep them out, or #3 to immobilize them right as they go into stealth.

Etc, etc.

If we’re gonna get the revealed debuff no matter what, I hope we get some health compensation. >.>

Ninewonderz.6439:

So for quite some time now in both PvE and PvP i rarely ever see thieves that run pistols (main hand and off) or that use LDB (leaping death blossom). Back when i first picked my thief which is my main, i constantly used it during PvE encounters, i see it here and there in EXP modes, but I’ve started to PvP more now and i pretty much haven’t seen it at all. Do most thieves just not like the ability along with the pistol? Or is D/D just considered stronger or better?

P/P is more of a damage setup, worthless as a condi spec.

If you want to use P in a DPS setup, use it in the offhand with D/P. Black Powder adds some nice surviability, and headshots for interrupting heals.

If you want to use P in a condi setup, use it with P/D. Cloak and Dagger > Sneak Attack (Pistol Stealth Attack #1).

I’ve seen some use P/P, they mainly use it for damage after the enemy has blown their dodge, cause someone dodging your unload would suck. People use pistols, just we dont usually use them together, but there are a few that do use dual pistols as a off set.

Selver.1307:

In the shadows, making (1)opportunistic strikes. (2)Trolling. (3)Mind games. (4)In people’s face with a brutal series of swings only to reappear out of reach showering death and punishment on those who would do you and yours harm.

Linlana.8573:

(5)Scouting and escaping. (6)Harassment.

Both of these.

(1)In s/tPvP (if you’re glass cannon) you wanna hang out in the back, find the guy who is off to the side/on a ledge free casting and take them out ASAP.

(2)Also, and especially if you go 0/0/30/20/20 or some form of that, and regenerate health while you attack/use initiative and stack bleeds, you will be able to keep a group of 2-3 pretty busy if you’re good with that playstyle.

(3)Shadowstep/Infiltrators Strike/Infi. Signet/Shadow Shot/Infi. Arrow, are all good mobility options, and keeping people guessing where you are coming from. There have been plenty of times someone would get to low health and run away from me. I would Shadowstep infront of them and hit a Heartseeker. They turn around and run away, and I’d only Shadow Return and hit them with another for the leap, and finish them off.

(4) Due to the mobility listed above, and the fact that we have very low health, positioning is important. If you’re in a 2v2, and 1-2 more show up from the opposing team, you can Shadow Step back and Choking Gas to poison and lower healing, then use Cluster Bomb/Trick Shot to deal damage, while keeping yourself safer. Cause, well if you get targeted as a glass cannon, you’re gonna explode. >.>

(5) Due to our stealth/mobility, we can scout ahead and see where the opposing team is, without them even seeing us. Or if you have the time on stealth, run right through them and backcap their point.

(6) See point #2.

Rome.3192:

voting for caed n steb since jumper don’t play no more (coming from a rank 51 thief)

Since 2 people said Steb, any one got a link to their twitch/youtube page? I know I’ve seen a couple videos of Caed before as well. Been looking into other higher ranked thief players to see what else I can pick up since I came back.

mursie.3681:

robert.3475:

wild bill is the best period if you would type in gw2 thief wild bill and watch his videos of wvw he does not just show the high lights he shows 15 min of streight video . he goesd 1v2 1v3 1v4 1v5 1v6 1v7 and he wins and most of the ones he fight out gear him how is that not the best please do not respond to my reply inless you have watched his videos

Robert, do you play a thief? probably not.
Let me explain to you why wild bill is far from a talented thief. The videos you are glorifying show him using a build that has nearly 2K toughness and 3k armour with literally almost 100% stealth uptime and heals/condition removals while in stealth. It is pistol/dagger condition bleed spam with literally just sneak attack and then reapply cloak and dagger. At the time of those videos stealth had not been nerfed to 4 secs and culling still existed in WvW. But most importantly, with that build there is almost ZERO risk to wild bill the entire time he is playing. The dmg he can take is considerable with the toughness/armor and the stealth being continually up allows him to easily regen health and condi removal. It is complete and total cheese. The only time you would even see his thief was for the 2 secs he came out of stealth with the stealth pistol opener of sneak attack.

As far as gear goes… he has a legendary pistol. He completely outgears many if not all of the ppl he kills in the video. Lastly, this is WvW. A place where food buffs and underlevel newbs roam wild. There is no level playing field there. You can literally be killing lvl 20’s that are being up-leveled. It is a joke. His build in spvp would be completely useless. It would not capture a point…it would not even contest a point…because it requires him to be in almost constant stealth.

And the final and most over-powered reason his videos are cheese…. in WvW there are thousands of NPC’s for him to stand near and CnD off of to reapply his attack on players. This is laughable. Most of his fights occur in strategic gank spots where he can use NPC’s as well as his opponents to ensure constant re-application and uptime of stealth.

That build is nearly unkillable. The thief has to literally go afk to die. I ran it for months in wvw. You could jump into entire 20 and 30 man zergs…and kill a person without even worrying. I admit it is fun… but it is the pinnacle of cheese.

Nothing against the guy, his WvW videos are entertaining. However, I was in a Niflhel match against him in hot join once just before the 3/26 patch. Didnt see him kill a single thing, not even me on my GC thief. Sure he only died once (that I know of, maybe twice), but I didnt see him actually get anyone downed either. At most, his playstyle was more of a nuisance with the chain CnD.

P/D works in sPvP, but I dont find it very effective myself. It might work against a Thief, or a Warrior (unless the Thief has something like Shadow’s Embrace), but really it’s just a stack of bleeds. One condi remover and it’s gone. It can work if you’re constantly doing Stealth > Sneak Attack, but not if you just sit there chaining CnD all day long. >.>

I dusted off my Mesmer the other day to give my Thief a break. Ended up running into a R45 HS spamming Thief. Was the saddest thing ever. Poor kitten never stood a chance. Not sure if he was trolling with HS, or seriously that bad. Made me laugh though.

Brigg.6189:

yeah, it’s a nice idea, I just don’t know how they’d do it cleanly

I would think they could just add it to the buffs/debuffs section. Or maybe on the other side so it’s not cluttered together.

xehn.3420:

Anyone else having lag on that map?

It seems to be a bit laggy today. Not just myself but I’ve seen/heard other people experiencing it as well. Happened on Foefire as well as Capricorn earlier. Not as bad as it was a couple weeks ago, just annoying.

RyuDragnier.9476:

@title: No, just most of us run with a SB for long-range damage and bleed.

@tc: While Crossfire is good, it’s best used along with #2 for the poison effect, and #4 if the enemy is coming towards you or trying to run. #3 is to gain more distance, and #5 is just to interrupt their heavy hitting attacks. Basically, a full utility weapon dealing with range, the sister to the full utility Greatsword.

I know there’s slightly more to just spamming Crossfire. Like, setting down a fire trap and shooting through it to cause burning as well. But really feels like most just run around spamming Crossfire at you. Maybe a poison shot here and there.

Really. It feels like every ranger I see just spams Crossfire. I tried it, but found it engaging as spamming 2222222 on Thief when I was a newb. The sad thing is, Crossfire is rather effective compared to HS spam…. -.-

ensoriki.5789:

They should switch it with Hidden thief, which would like Kleptomaniac…make sense given the other minor traits.

They should switch it, but I dont think they should switch it with Hidden Thief. Overall, you would no longer be able to CnD > Steal > Backstab combo, as CnD would go off knocking you out of stealth, thus lowering the overall burst.

Blink Squikitten605:

[SNIP]

Competitive players love to pvp, but after months of the same, we’re starting to realize that while other games have a gear treadmill, all we have is a treadmill.

You’re right, about the “months of the same” part. But wrong when it comes to the gear treadmill issue.

What other games have are features, different modes, and rankings. If ANet would add 1 or 2 maps that are not conquest, I’m sure a lot of people would come back. Give us better match making, leaderboards, show us ratings, and give us some team death match or something to break up the monotony.

What we dont need is a gear gap between players where gear > skill.

bestan.2604:

Murise, why would that be hard for me to hear?
Phantaram – can you give me an hint in what direction?

Come one guys, I dont know whats your pvp-rank is but you honestly dont find the Spvp like a treadmill without goal and rewards?

Lukin – The grind is just to separate normal pvp-ers (who shall face normal pvp-ers and not 50 ranks above their leve) from those who wants to be competative.

No it’s not. Gear treadmill is about who can play for the most amount of time. Gear treadmills, like rank in GW2, doesnt actually indicate you’re good. It just proves you’ve played/can grind more than the rest.

To me, PvP is about getting into a 1v1 – 5v5 fight, and winning due to good team work. It’s about outplaying the other person. It’s not about who can grind 8 hours a day and get the best gear so they can face roll the people who dont.

daydream.2938:

It has little correlation with contribution. In a large sample size it kinda means something on roamer classes, but nearly nothing on a bunker.

The bulk of glory should be handed out for your team winning. That is the most accurate way to incentivez people to behave correctly.

This. But when it comes to hotjoin, it just means I’m that much glory closer to my next rank. In hotjoin I’ll roam to find those random 1 v 1s, and back cap points. Actually leads you to meet some interesting players/playstyles.

As someone else said, tagging. Sometimes in hotjoin I’ll just run around with my shortbow out getting trick shots off downed, and usually like 98% of the time) I get the points for killing them as well.

Actually I guess it doesnt mean much in tPvP either. Plenty of times I just let someone else finish or cap, as long as the node as clear. As long as we win, dont give a crap about points in tPvP either.

waka.9826:

Mesmer is that class you hate fighting even though you know the class isn’t THAT good.

I like fighting Mesmer’s though.

Vicarious.3047:

Hotjoins can be broken down into two types:

1. 8v8 rooms, one team is in FULL zerg mode while the other team runs in one at a time to get slaughtered for no reason.

2. 5v5 rooms, 95% of the time it’s just 3-4 people dueling in mid.

Will it be like this forever? Cause it’s been like this since betas and it’s still as annoying.

I mean I need to test builds in a typical tourney 5v5 scenario since the warriors only viable tourney build is now useless, but I don’t really want to wait for a tourney queue just to TEST a build I’m not sure will work with a bunch of other people I can’t properly communicate with.

But then in hotjoins it’s either partake ikittenerg and not get anything tested, get squashed while trying to avoid a zerg (or successfully avoid a zerg and not get anything tested), or try it out in duels with people who have specifically specced for duels (and more often then not are insane burst thieves, mesmers, or eles…)

Is there even a way for this mentality to change or are we doomed to never get any proper testing done unless you jump face first into a tourney with a team willing to put up with your test builds? (Or a warrior in general, since no one wants a warrior now after the 26th :P)

Pretty much… If this keeps up I’m gonna completely lose my interest.

If it’s just Zerg v Zerg, I avoid it at all cost. I either leave, or start back capping all the points I can. Meanwhile, my team mates run in 1 by 1 and die.

There are a few seldom games when it doesnt go like that, and you can find some decent players and get some nice glory, but meh. Those are few and far between.

PowerBottom.5796:

Thats exactly why ppl are so disappointed and put as much pressure on ANet, because they realize what this game could be!

Yes, in it’s core, the gameplay, the engine, basically everything that is GW2 besides the lack of features (and maybe balance), is absolutely amazing! Never have I seen such deep and action-packed gameplay in an MMO or MOBA, never such a rich character-build-system etc – there’s nothing in that genre that even comes close to GW2, BUT: They Lack so severely in necessary features, that it’s just a chore to play the game nowadays.

I’d be really Angry with ANet and NCSoft if they let GW2-PvP slip through their Fingers, because it could be a game I would want to play competetively on a high level, that I’d want to watch Streams and Tournaments and that I’d want to invest my precious time and hard(ly)-earned Money in!

^This. I really feel like MMO devs have lost touch with the gamers that actually play their games lately. It feels like a lot of them make the game, but then dont have the time to play it themselves, and see what we’re missing.

B Rad.5416:

uzu.7351:

B Rad.5416:

Healing is FAR too strong? Have you ever played another mmo where there is another player. The thief killed me with 2 skills .25 seconds. Does 100 take .25 seconds? It does not. 100 blades is channeling and you can escape it.

You can also dodge any skill a thief can use on you that also does dmg. Also, if you use any skill that shields you or causes ANY of our hits to miss, those go into CD and are thus lost for the remaining of the CD. If you get facerolled in 2 sec you just suck no matter the class.

First off average human reaction time I think is around .25 seconds so you can’t dodge it (especially when the person doing it to you is unseen so the reaction time takes longer than average). Use a shield on a mesmer? And you say I suck at this game? Lastly I didn’t get facerolled in 2 seconds, I got facerolled in under half a second which is why I am complaining. Thief is my MAIN and I even think they need a nerf, as well as other classes, to make spvp better.

What I am saying is a total of TWO attack skills did 15,000 damage in UNDER .5 seconds. My health is 15,000 and in NO MMO should people get two shotted in under a second.

It’s .150 – .300 milliseconds.

I’m having trouble believing you died to only 2 hits, unless you have a screenshot. Even so, unless you already have your back to them, repositioning to get the full damage off a backstab, takes a bit of time. Plenty of time to blink away.

Me thinks you should get used to hitting your keybinds, unless you’re a clicker. Distortion, Decoy, Blink… Something! I’m assuming the 2 hits was Mug + Backstab, if they’re traited for Hidden Thief.

Either way, it sounds like you’re probably playing glass cannon. And when its GC vs GC, whoever gets their burst off first usually wins.

Also, as for being unseen, were you hit with Basilisk Venom in the process? When all of a sudden you turn to stone, it’s a really good indicator that you’re about to get a dagger in your back. Would probably be a good time to blink. If so, learn to recognize the color change and screen change. If not… Well, I dont know what to say unless you were just sitting there standing still, and then complain you died. >.>

Dasorine.1964:

Jaytee.9513:

Invisibility not only breaks LOS atks but it breaks target lock meaning players have to re-target the thief (hit tab) every time stealth is used.

Not to mention the regeneration, condition removal, and repositioning going on in the mean time.

Opponents cant react given only a 3 sec window.

GC builds should require support from other team mates for survivability but as it was thieves could run full zerk gear with no toughness, vitality and still survive.

All I can say is welcome to the club of placing more resources into those areas in order to survive……….

As long as there are no other targets, very few of those attacks won’t still hit when fired off in the thieves general direction and if there are other targets your in a team battle that should have teammates that can help with CCing and AoE to make up for it.

The stealth trait effects aren’t in every build but I concede that those that do have them have a bit more survivability in stealth with them but not enough to prevent death while still in stealth if their opponent does well.

Against the average WvW stealth does well yes but as soon as you throw in even just a single experienced player that knows how to handle a stealthing thief and stealth suddenly becomes almost non-existent.

For example I recently rolled a ranger, I took it into WvW with a longbow at level 4 and with no utility and only 2 of my weapon skills unlocked (rapidfire and hunters shot) I fought a thief who was at least level 30 (they had elite skills) not only to a stand still but long enough that they tried to flee and when they did they ran into a second person who helped finish them off. Sure the thief was actually really bad but the fact is every time they stealthed or tried to stealth I either evaded (wasting their initiative) or I just simply ignored it and kept hitting them.

Now I’m not saying thats possible against every thief and different professions will find different mileage with different builds but stealth is definitely not as risk free nor as big a survival boost as many people make it out to be.

Also, in addition to this post, I’ve recently been playing other classes to learn more about them. But, since I have so much time as a thief, I hardly ever have an issue with them.

Playing Necro? Are they going to Backstab? Time to pop DS and get that 3 second retal. Did they going into SR? Time for Reaper’s Mark. Are they spamming HS? Make them run away with some fear, and give yourself some breathing room.

Etc, etc. You get the idea. If you have such a hard time with thieves, try playing one. Learn the mindset, and we’re easier to beat. It’s like complaining about Mesmer’\s, when you dont understand the class and the real one’s sitting in the back laughing at you destroy their clones.

Jaytee.9513:

Dasorine.1964:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The idea of a “glass cannon” is for it to break after dealing a lot of damage. But glass cannon Thieves aren’t breaking after massive damage and that’s the problem.

I think the nerf will be on the survivability of glass cannons, since they have to break, rather than targetting the damage output of the Thieves.

But that’s just me.

The question is though, why these glass cannons don’t break afterwards, people claim its because stealth is overpowered but it doesn’t actually prevent that much damage against people that know how it works, so what else is it causing these glass cannons to reduce all this damage?

(1)Invisibility not only breaks LOS atks but it breaks target lock meaning players have to re-target the thief (hit tab) every time stealth is used.

Not to mention the regeneration, condition removal, and repositioning going on in the mean time.

(2)Opponents cant react given only a 3 sec window.

(3)GC builds should require support from other team mates for survivability but as it was thieves could run full zerk gear with no toughness, vitality and still survive.

All I can say is welcome to the club of placing more resources into those areas in order to survive……….

(1)If this was the traditional MMO style (WoW clone), I could agree here. However, it’s not. A thief in stealth, can be hit in stealth. We’re not invulnerable. Issues might be if you’re playing a caster type weapon (staff, scepter, etc.), but melee weapons can still hit the thief very easily, and if you watch your attack go through it’s chain, you know where we are.

I do this all the time against thieves if they SR. Works especially combined with mobility. Or, spam an AoE in the field. Or if you’re playing Staff Necro, throw down a Reaper’s Mark (dead center if you have the larger marks trait, or on an edge if not). There are plenty of counters to any class in stealth.

(2)If they can’t react within a 3 second window, tell grandma to stop playing MMOs… Really… http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/stats.php

(3)The decent ones can anyways. Most GC Thieves seem to run in head first, down one person, and get killed by the rest. Actually, most GC’s seem to do this, even Warriors. I watched a team mate Warrior run into a group of 5 earlier, just freaking hilarious. XD

Really, if they want to nerf Thieves damage, but buff our health pool, and other passive surviability stuff, then great. But as far as stealth goes, it really seems like a L2P problem.

official.4658:

no it didnt work when u stealthd for more than 4 secs

So, you mean even that is fixed now?

Laika.8795:

Daendur.2357:

Rizzy.8293:

Remove stealth, give high hp and allow rifle wielding :>

it is called warrior.

you have multiple options for pve not requiring stealth.
move on

Don’t quote me, but I think he was being cheeky there, Dae…

I feel like he was actually being rather serious… >.> Ofcourse, if he was, he’ll look into warrior, and say I was wrong, so they dont feel like kitten

Mrbig.8019:

Shukran.4851:

what about thief is unviable except the same boring burst build?

i need to see some video about high end pvp with a venom share thief, cause someone is telling me it is viable. im skeptical

With the way it’s taking, soon venom share will become the “less pitiful” way to play the thief, since burst thieves will soon disappear.

Pretty much this… And with teams usually being full of Ele’s and Gaurdians, condi just doesnt do it. I love burst, but I would also play the condi builds if it was more than just bleed stacking, and 1 simple condition gets removed so easily, and quickly. I dont see the point when I can just run burst.

With the 1 second added to the revealed debuff, this has probably thrown all of us out of sync. Even if you didnt specifically run through the DS > WS > LS chain, you still got used to the timing in your head.

Our internal timing will come back with time. Soon, we wont even think about that extra second. So I wanted to make this thread of a list of additions we can use in to give us something to do for that one second.

So, coming out of stealth and being revealed due to landing a backstab can be followed up by:

DS > WS > LS > Scorpion Wire > CnD
- This what I used to do when I first started playing the Backstab build months ago before I took a break. Scorpion Wire is also great for interrupting their heal, pulling them to you, and setting up for another CnD > Backstab.

With Critical Haste (2 sec quickness) (DS > WS > LS) > DS > WS > LS > CnD
- With Critical Haste kicking in, it’s perfect for getting off 2x #1 chains > CnD perfectly, almost like DS > WS > LS > CnD was before the 1 second addition.

DS > WS > LS > Black Powder > Heartseeker > Backstab
- Also works perfectly, since your dont stealth until after you land with HS. This was unaffected, but now your BP > HS will perfectly sync with this.