Guild Wars 2

On point It wasn’t.

“This poison spreads hatred and anger. We must fight it.”
→Who caused this?
“An evil group called the Nightmare Court. They wish to harm the sleepers. Trust me, sapling. All will be made clear to you very soon.”

Sayeth Caithe, second time she pops up in the tutorial. The Nightmare Hounds was caused by the Nightmare Court.

The poison then takes form as a dragon because the dragon is your Wyld Hunt – because you are there where the poison is strongest.

Read the context, Elysian.

She’s comparing the krait to real religions, stating that there’s no rl religious figures the krait prophets are based from.

That’s what I get from it, at least.

BrunoBRS.5178:

but an instinctive call isn’t being born a courtier. they still must perform the ritual (or whatever you wanna call it).

Being born in Nightmare != Being born a Nightmare Courtier.

There are sylvari born in Nightmare. But no sylvar is born as a Courtier.

There is a distinct difference.

ElysianEternity.6215:

It’s from this interview

(Hooray for more out-of-the-way lore stuff.) All Sylvari awake from the dream, but some reject it very soon after. There are no Nightmare-born Sylvari according to it.

Interesting. Forgot about that line from the interview. However…

“Before my awakening, all I knew was the nightmare. I was never meant for the pleasantries of the Grove.”

And a little less convincing:

“Once I awoke from the dream, I found myself drawn toward the Nightmare Court. It was clearly my destiny to join them.”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nightmare_Recruit

So yeah, we have a couple sylvari who claim to have been born in Nightmare. What else could “all I knew was the nightmare” mean?

Olvendred.3027:

Konig, you keep making the assumption that all dragon minions must be the same, when we very definitely know that they’re not. -snip rest-

True, they are not. Destroyers are corrupted rock and lava; icebrood are usually willing victims; Branded are physical things; Risen are corpses reanimated by corruption. They have different persona alterations when corrupted, and they have different elements.

But though they have differences, they also have similarities:

All dragon minions are fanatical to their dragon. They lack free will, and weaker minions lack intelligence – sometimes being outright mindless. They spread corruption where they go, and their corpses spread it as well. They are capable of being corrupted by other dragons’ energies.

And though the Elder Dragons hold a seemingly “preferred” means of corruption, we know that their energy can be used to corrupt he very same things – indirectly, Zhaitan’s magic is used to corrupt living (Kellach and Necromancer Rissa in human and charr PS; a heart in Sparkfly Fen), plantlife (the same Sparkfly Fen heart); Jormag’s magic is used to corrupt forcefully (by the Sons of Svanir whom aren’t (fully) corrupted); Primordus has been confirmed to be capable of corrupting living beings which would take the form of encasing the body and liquifying said body. All Elder Dragons are capable of corrupting the same things, but each choses to corrupt in a specific way for unknown-to-us reasons.

The sylvari lack these similarities that the dragon minions hold to each other. Not a single sylvari praises a dragon; their corpses do not – at least standardly – radiate twisting magic; they cannot be corrupted by draconic energies; etc. etc. They lack everything that the dragon minions have in common.

And please, don’t talk to me like I don’t know this stuff. I did a well in depth research as unbiased as mentally possible both into the means of corruption of all Elder Dragons, their possible personalities, and the potential corruptions of Mordremoth. I was, in fact, among the first to do a serious research into the differences of these forms of corruptions and, perhaps the first to ever attribute an actual supported personality to any of them and how they corrupt differently from each other.

I know this subject in and out – clearly more than you given you didn’t mention that Primordus can corrupt living and both Jormag and Kralkatorrik are known for corrupting non-living beings (Dragonspawn in EoD and the GoA crystal guardian – as well as possibly the Claw of Jormag and The Shatterer by all appearances).

Olvendred.3027:

What I’m saying is that comparisons to the behaviour and attributes of other dragon minions cannot absolutely disprove the theory, especially when some of the ones mentioned (those pertaining to the corruption paradigm) are already not universal to dragon minions.

To paraphrase Jeff Grubb’s own introduction to describing the comparison of the Elder Dragons to each other: They are different, but yet they are similar.

This also goes for their minions.

And, as said, the sylvari lacks the “they are similar” part.

If you want, I would be happy to gather together as many links for out-of-game links I could. Sadly, some interviews were lost – like the one where sylvari are outright stated to be immune to dragon corruption.

Andele.1306:

Actually we know that they are “built”/brood-spawn/cloned from fossiles… Kinda how the pale tree spawns sylvari, oakhearts, fern hounds and husks from pods.

1) Destroyers are not fossils. They are mimicries made from stone and lava, spawned slowly in pools of lava.
2) The Pale Tree does not make treants (the species of plant that oakhearts are). They predate the Pale Tree, and are completely unrelated by all indications.
3) The Pale Tree also does not create husks. They belong to the Nightmare Court (and an unknown non-NC force behind Wychmire Swamp). There is even an event in Sparkfly Fen that shows the creation of a husk – seemingly out of sylvari. Though what they are exactly is unknown – but still, not made by the Pale Tree.

Andele.1306:

Actually:
1) They do as do all living beings in tyria, just depends on the amount (for example jormags minions dont feed on magic even close to as much as zhaitans do)
2) Sylvari go mad from dragon corruption, they dont die from it… nor age (like dragon minions)… they die from dying… as in burning, ripping, slicing and stomping them.
3) Sylvari influenced by great magic (like the pale trees will which is based on human and centaur teachings) can chose to be free… the one we know who isnt tied to said tree is kinda a vengeful shady kitten and even so he grew up alone… then lets look at something else, who else is a free willed minion of a great force which a person with positive teachings freed with magic and then we had to protect her eggs…

Also last living story confirms scarlet is mad because of the dream and dragon magic be in her.

Uh…
1) No, normal races – sylvari included – do not eat magic. They utilize it, they do not sustain themselves on it. Elder Dragons do sustain themselves on magic. And it is stated fact that ALL Elder Dragons consume magic.
2) Yes, they do die from corruption. This was stated in an interview a while back. When they are touched by draconic corruption, they drop dead rather than becoming a dragon minion – this is their “immunity”. It’s not stated in game as such, but it was stated in an interview with Ree Soesbee before release. As for the going mad bit – you’re probably thinking of a single sylvari who was tortured and kept alive for unknown reasons by an Eye of Zhaitan in the personal story – she was not corrupted.
3) Uh… The Pale Tree is a tree, not a sylvari – she was born of a seed. And Ronan/Ventari’s teachings and nurturing was NOT magical – AT ALL. And Glint was freed by the Forgotten’s ancient ritual. No sylvari nor the Pale Tree has been influenced by great magic, let alone the Forgotten’s ancient long-lost-until-after-Zhaitan’s-death ritual to give free will to dragon minions.

Andele.1306:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Intelligence != Free Will.

That actually happens to be the definition of it and the reason why we can create AI that learns and adapts… not to humanoid levels but kinda housecat like at least.

No. The definition of free will is the ability to make an independent choice. Intelligence is not “ability to make choice.” Intelligence is “ability to think.”

AI is not capable of free will, because it is forced to follow its core programming. At best, it is given the illusion of free will.

@FlamingFox: But it wouldn’t be defenseless. It’s not like there were no more Toxic Alliance foes there. I mean, the next instance – The Nightmare Ends – has waves of Toxic Alliance. On top of that, there’s also the barrier that prevented the anti-toxin from affecting the tower’s heart.

@Elysian: Possible, but I’m doubtful that Scarlet made it… I’ve always thought that the seed was from the cave Ronan found – since it creates sylvari-like creatures and seems to be sapient. Though that would mean… normal sylvari would be of its kind thus it wouldn’t be the last (nor the first) if it meant that wide. On the other hand, Scarlet mentions it being the grand unveil of the prophet (nor word for word), implying it’s the first of the Tower of Nightmares…

@Andele: Body fusion thing? Two creatures have never combined into one in all of the GW franchise. So I’m not sure what you refer to as ‘body fusion’ would imply taking two beings and combining them into one.

@Elysian: Er, no. Nothing says the prophets are made up. I believe you’re mistaking this line:

“Furthermore, unknown to the krait people, the priests ensure the continuation of their power by subtly changing the words of the massive memorized texts, ensuring that whatever interpretation they require is upheld somewhere in the canon.”

Link to blog post.

Nothing says there’s no such thing as krait prophets, just that the Oratuss are known – unknown to the krait population though – to alter the religious oral “texts” to keep them in power regardless the circumstances.

Edit: Or perhaps:

“Land-based historians and scholars theorize that the obelisks on the sea floor are not mystical, but are ancient monuments to religious figures and societal governors of the krait. Because the krait memorize their lore, some information has been lost over the centuries. The krait race has forgotten the obelisks’ true purpose and has invented instead a mystic reverence for the monuments and those they represent.”

This isn’t making up the prophets, but making up the origins/purpose of the obelisks, which to the krait is being markers of where the prophets ascended and will be how they return.

Shiren.9532:

Isn’t it possible both to be the first and last of your kind? I don’t think they are mutually exclusive.

No, it isn’t. But he was just born, with more pods like that which the hybrid came from are in the Tower. And the way he said it is in a denial like … only a slightly dialed down version of when Luke Skywalker found out Darth Vadar was his father.

Olvendred.3027:

That part makes sense, especially if he is the first and only one of his kind. Perhaps he was the prototype for an entire production line of the things, or even the intended progenitor (less likely, if he is more sylvari than krait). Either way, he wants there to be more like him, but since he’s going to die, he’s actually the last as well as the first. It’s just a matter of emphasis.

And it’s that matter of emphasis which makes him strange.

He says it as if he knows there were predecessors and that it’s just simply unreasonable for him to be the last.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

BrunoBRS.5178:

the thing is the “artifact investigation” instance lets you investigate artifacts in any order. in the order i did, kasmeer and marjory were talking naturally about leylines and how they knew about leylines in lion’s arch far before we got to kiel’s report (where kiel completely bypasses the leyline part and assumes she blew the place up out of revenge/betrayal/something).

check the screenshots available on the other thread, they might shed some light. it definitely came off to me as “they already knew about it, it just never got discussed before so the players didn’t know”.

Marjory and Kasmeer did also say that they had already looked at it all, though. What sells it for me is that Marjory seems to have overlooked the ley line bit of the report until she took a second look while we were around, and that bit about how the Inquest discovered “new” information.

What Aaron said. They mention having read it before you showed up. And looked at all the other stuff. Kasmeer’s talk about the journal is just that as well.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I get the feeling she is looking for the exact location of the Central Transfer Chamber which was lost, or something similar in the Depths under Lion’s Arch. Remember there were old ruins down there we didn’t get a chance to explore before destroyers chased us out 250 years ago . . .

Nope. The Central Transfer Chamber was underneath what is now Fireheart Rise. More or less. Northwestern Fireheart Rise.

What was under Lion’s Arch was a simple cavern with two asura gates – one leading to the Far Shiverpeaks, the other going to the Central Transfer Chamber. Now, if she’s after those… That’s another story – but she’d also need her own power source, and if she’s going to dig for a gate… why not just dig for the CTC itself?

Eluveitie.1290:

I could not wrap my head around that before going to bed.

She has, since probably the start of her plans, planned to attack/infiltrate Lion’s Arch for an unknown motive we have yet to find about. The probes accour much later than Dragon Bash’s attack, so she must have now two objectives in the city.

Either that or it’s an overlook by the writers, which I doubt so.

I think the probes was just her “proving” her theories about the ley lines, though she had set up plans to weaken LA from inside long before.

Deified.7520:

Here are some more details you may have overlooked. There are a lot more in the world probably.

http://imgur.com/a/VLCZO#0

The portal is new(ish). And so is the Delaqua Residence. But Barcas and Cravia were there since after Last Stand at Southsun. Brokitten (Seriously? An NPC’s name is censored out? GG ANet) was added during Wintersday when the Tower fell. Along with about 10-15 other NPCs throughotu various places in Kessex, mainly Havens.

This guy is a TOTAL mystery to me, honestly. This is hardly the most mysterious one.

This guy is physically looking like a krait-shaped sylvari (rather than the common thought of a krait-turned-plant akin to druids). It evolves very fast, and all but to me, THIS is the most interesting line from it:

“No! I cannot be the last of my kind.”

One would think him to be the first of his kind… but he’s the last? So then… who came before him, that are now dead? This line even shows for your first appearance into the instance, so it isn’t a case of the repeat entrances holding lore value as “there were many Hybrids and they think they’re the last of them”.

But anyways. For your quote. I see it as us being a gift of sacrifice (“present”) to the krait’s prophet’s arrival (“becoming”). The krait are big on sacrificing to their prophets to build an army in some other world, so I see this line as being evolved from this.

But that “last of my kind” bit still confuddles me…

BrunoBRS.5178:

well, if you pay attention to her wording, she doesn’t clearly state that the wyld hunt is killing zhaitan. she just states that it’s something you’ll have to do.

plus, it would suit the game better if its hero’s motivation, their ultimate goal in life, didn’t end before 4/5 (or 5/6) of the world’s troubles are over.

in other words, i think the hunt is actually “slay dragons”, just like some hunts are as vague as “fight against dragon minions”.

That… is splitting hairs to an insane degree.

PC: “I’m told my Wyld Hunt is to slay a dragon because I dreamed it. Is this true?”
PT: “Yes, only two have such a Wyld Hunt. You and Caithe. While other sylvari face the dragon’s minions, I believe you will face Zhaitan itself.”

The Pale Tree only mentions Zhaitan. The minions the other sylvari face is specifically the Risen. The PC shares Wyld Hunts with Caithe – which is stated to be complete when Zhaitan is killed (at least if you talk to Caithe as a sylvari in the PS instance of Victory or Death at Fort Trinity).

In short:

• You and Caithe SHARE Wyld Hunts. They are the same.
• Caithe states her Wyld Hunt is completed with Zhaitan’s death.

And though it’s been a while and I don’t have any screenshots on my laptop (may be on my desktop so I can get back to you on this in 4 days if you wish), I believe my sylvari stated her Wyld Hunt was over too.

Keep in mind though: Sylvari can get new Wyld Hunts after waking (in fact, it’s often the case that they get Wyld Hunts after awakening, not while dreaming still), and can have more than one Wyld Hunt – it’s possible very easily for a sylvari to get a new Wyld Hunt just after completing the previous one.

So the sylvari PC – and even Caithe and Trahearne – can get new Wyld Hunts about the other Elder Dragons later on.

My point, however, is that the Shadow of the Dragon is outright stated by the Pale Tree to represent Zhaitan specifically, and it is stated by both the Pale Tree and the player character to be a mere shadow – not a champion or the like itself, as it is often believed.

moomooo.9357:

What happens when you complete the Hunt? Is there a moment of clarity, like “Ah, yes, I’ve definitely finished my Hunt!”, or what? Is there a way for us to know, definitively, when the Hunt has been finished?

I THINK so, but it’s been a long time.

What I know for sure is Caithe jokingly suggests making your sylvari PC an honorary Firstborn for helping two of them complete their Wyld Hunts (to non-sylvari, it’s honorary sylvari).

SoulArcanium.5047:

And yet, Charr’s Warmachine forced them to retreat despite having all this over powered magic at their disposal. Everything you listed doesn’t really bring them close to even a single Pale Tree when put into perspective. What makes the Pale Tree unique probably has nothing to do with the dream. I think the creator of the seeds responsible for their immunity.

Gods sent forgotten to Tyria as overseers and protectors while they were playing sandbox in Tyria. Sure, that fact alone elevated the race but who’s to say that the origins of sylvary aren’t the same? We don’t know who exactly placed the seeds into the cave but people tend to speculate that it was Melandru (Or some other insanely powerful entity). If it wasn’t for the exodus of the gods, then the difference between Sylvary and Forgotten wouldn’t have been that different in terms of their role in the world. (Plus they would still have connection to the gods, like Forgotten did – hence their knowledge of dragon counter spells)

… You realize that magic to counter Elder Dragon corruption or to look into the past of a location does not necessarily mean that it is at all useful against a horde of brute force beasts, right?

Like rock, paper, scissors. Just because scissors (Forgotten) can beat paper (Elder Dragons) doesn’t mean it can beat rock (charr).

That depends on if other tree’s sylvari are immune, which is yet to be seen. But the only thing that’s truly unique to the Pale Tree is the Dream. Magical trees are, in fact, not that rare.

We actually can no longer be sure it was the Six Gods who sent them – maybe them guiding the other races was their deal with the Six Gods being allowed to bring humans here from wherever-they-come-from. After all, the Forgotten seem to have been the best-placed race of the elder races (jotun having lost their magic, seers being nearly wiped out, mursaat having fled into the Mists, dwarves and Forgotten are unknown).

Playing the “we don’t know what would be if xyz happened” is a very poor argument. I mean, we don’t know what would be if the Six Gods remained at all – would they war with the Elder Dragons? If so who’d win? Would humanity have fallen? Would Forgotten have been pushed to the Crystal Desert in the first place? If so, would they still seemingly disappear from all existence? Playing the “what if” allows too many variables, and you cannot argue anything solidly. Yeah, maybe the sylvari would be on par to the Forgotten. Or maybe they wouldn’t. Who’s to say? You CANNOT argue one way or another and pulling that card just ceases all theorizing – it becomes pointless speculation.

All of this, however, does not under-estimate the Pale Tree. Nor does it over-estimate the Forgotten.

There was quite a lot about the Forgotten that make them special. They were balancers of the world for a time, they were the wardens to Abaddon and protectors of Glint. They had multiple means of preventing or reversing dragon corruption. They also had a spell to witness pass events (as seen in the sylvari chapte 3 storyline if you go with the Priory to look into Riannoc’s death).

But I don’t think that the Pale Tree or White Stag would be so unique – unless it was the Dream that made the Pale Tree immune, simple nurturing wouldn’t change it if she was a dragon minion and the Dream was akin to the dragon’s and their minions’ hive mind mentality that is the “theory.”

Because it’s not important. Because it’s Arcane Council jurisdiction and the Inquest have hold on them and they’re trying to keep Thaumanova chaotic for whatever reasons (see the escort event prior to the Fire Elemental event).

Or maybe it will be cleaned up at long last.

I disagree with your theory, though I only skimmed it briefly so I won’t really touch it. There’s just too many “Scarlet’s going to fight a/the Elder Dragon(s)” and “Scarlet’s twisted by Mordremoth!” that it really seems unlikely (and yeah, I know my first choice is Mordremoth – I’m biased for wanting Mordy into the game) and I recall reading a mention that Anet confirmed that someone’s theory was already right, but it was an uncommon one (and fighting/corrupted by Mordy are both common ones). But on your first unanswered question:

Tamias.7059:

• What is the role of Mai Trin? Scarlet needed someone on the Captain’s Council, but why? Kasmeer believes that it is so Lion’s Arch’s defenses could be weakened from the inside, but this was before Scarlet knew that LA was her target.

One of the three holograms of Scarlet has Scarlet stating that she needs to soften Lion’s Arch up and lower their defenses. It isn’t just Kasmeer’s belief – it’s what Scarlet said into the recordings. The placement of the recording is between talking about the dredge and Flame Legion, and talking about the Queen’s Jubilee (which is followed by making an airport in Twilight Arbor, and the krait); so by placement, her mention of weakening Lion’s Arch would be Dragon Bash – aka Mai Trin.

This heavily implies that Scarlet already knew she’d be attacking Lion’s Arch. The lore on the Thaumanova also implied that she knew what would happen but did it anyways because she wanted to study its effects.

saye.9304:

about caithe:, in one paths of personal story of sylvari ,caithe will kill nightmare member while the hero((or player)) gave her/his promise of protection in exchange of cooperation to the poor nightmare court member,caithe ignore the promise and killed the poor thing,so there is a lot more to caithe than simple good hero of tyria.

This comes about from Faolain – Caithe’s former lover and the current leader of the Nightmare Court. Caithe has a very strong hatred of the Nightmare and by extension Nightmare Court because of Faolain.

Do Twilight Arbor (story mode) and read Edge of Destiny.

Narcemus.1348:

Well Konig,

Ellen is screaming about an imminent attack to the Council in LA, they just aren’t listening. She tells us this after you’ve finished the story.

So I learned after posting.

BrunoBRS.5178:

remember on sea of sorrows (the novel), how they showed a couple meetings of the council and it would keep reaching a stalemate because all the other captains are too busy with their own agendas to see the problem right in front of them?

think that, but replace cobiah with kiel.

This is basically any sort of committee government ever – especially in stories.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Stooperdale.3560:

The dragon in the personal story tutorial is almost certainly Zaitan. The personal story is, essentially, you vs Zaitan and it will remain that way after the jungle dragon has come and gone.

Not necessarily. Just because it was part of that storyline doesn’t mean anything- there are quests, even arcs, in the personal story that focus on fighting other dragons, and none of the other tutorials had anything to do with Zhaitan- and the fact that the NPCs jumped to that conclusion actually surprised me. According to a surprisingly large amount of pre-launch material, the threat of the dragons as a whole casts a shadow into the Dream. Combine that with what that boss is named, and I have a case for claiming that our character’s Wyld Hunt is to fight against all of the dragons. Zhaitan was just the obvious first choice.

BrunoBRS.5178:

basically what aaron said. just because the mender was like “dragon? well we got a bunch of risen here, why don’t you go kill zhaitan?” doesn’t mean the player’s wyld hunt is tied to zhaitan alone. or even zhaitan himself. maybe the dream does refer to a single dragon, but it would be the very last one, the one that fulfills the player’s wyld hunt.

AHEM

<Character name>: If I may ask, Mother-in my dream, I also saw a fierce, horrible dragon. I’ve been told it is my Wyld Hunt to face this monster. Is that true?
Avatar of the Tree: I fear that it is. A Wyld Hunt is a sacred thing, a burden placed by the Dream upon the strongest and bravest of my children.
Avatar of the Tree: In your Dream, you fought an Elder Dragon face-to-face. Only two of my children have had such a dream. You, and Caithe.
Avatar of the Tree: All sylvari fight the dragon’s servants, the undead, but I believe you will face Zhaitan itself. I also believe you will prevail.

This discussion happens at the end of every first story arc for sylvari (White Stag, Green Huntsman, and Shield of the Moon) just before meeting Trahearne.

So yeah. That’s Zhaitan. Not Mordremoth.

Unless the Pale Tree, caretaker of the Dream of Dreams and of Wyld Hunts, are wrong about your own Wyld Hunt. Oh and at the end of the tutorial:

<Character name>: “She and I fought side by side against a poison in the Dream. I saw the shadow of a terrible dragon, and I felt the Dream call upon me to defeat it.”
Mender Serimon: “By the Tree! A Wyld Hunt, so soon? And such a momentous task. To be a Valiant of the Wyld Hunt is a difficult charge. Bear this calling with pride.”

So even if the Pale Tree is wrong about it being Zhaitan, the sylvari PC itself says it was a calling to defeat the dragon that was represented in that shadow (whatever dragon it is for, it was merely a shadow of it – not a champion, not the Elder Dragon itself, but a shadow, a representation). One can hear near where sylvari wake up what a Wyld Dream feels like and it seems to match the words of the PC there.

@Tamias.7059: I’ve been thinking of the “nefarious agents” and I think that the White Mantle/Lazarus may be siphoning from the Bloodstone for still-unknown means, thus weakening it even faster than it should be. Would then explain the reduction of healing properties in even 250 years compared to ~1,000 years.

@Aaron Ansari.1604:The difference between this and the gargoyles is that the gargoyles comment was in-game while this was via interview. While it’s possible that Jeff Grubb’s comment is just a case of giving additional not-story text and flavor to the world’s lore, it’s equally possible (perhaps more so because it’s not in-game) to be for an actual storytelling purpose.

Lion’s Arch will become the new Thaumanova.

After Scarlet’s defeated, we’ll have a month of people being teleported in and out randomly, elements coating different sections of it, and a nice big water djinn (Zomorros) becoming a world boss. The LW instances will be out to fix it, and we will. Then things will go back to “normal”.

Yes, I am sarcastic. Though I do think Scarlet’s plan is to make a wide-scale Thaumanova incident.

Shiren.9532:

How was Malyck able to communicate and function two weeks after leaving his pod if he didn’t dream?

For this, I point to the Toxic Hybrid.

If one looks at it closely, they will realize that the common perception that the Toxic Hybrid is a krait-made-planty is false. It holds the same body structure and design as a sylvari, down to the same “center” that the sylvari body sprouts from (I don’t recall the exact wording but an old blog post – blog now taken down curse you Anet – explained that the sylvari were designed in their redesign to have a single center point – their lower back. Take your sylvari’s clothes off and you can see it; it’s the opposite side of their belly button (which for them is akin to the bottom of an apple for example).

The Toxic Hybrid has this center, and from that center, its body comes from. The Toxic Hyrbid is basically a krait-shaped large sylvari. And when it’s born, it can only growl and crawl, but within mere seconds it begins to being capable of speech, of standing upright, high intelligence, and fighting properly.

This to me is possibly a natural trait among sylvari – but to the Pale Tree’s sylvari, they under go this very short-lived phase while in the Dream of Dreams. Malyck did not. So when he was born, he’d be a grumbling, crawling human-like sylvari for a few minutes – hours tops; but he’d evolve fast and get up to adult-level mentality and intelligence quickly.

Shiren.9532:

We don’t know he hasn’t fallen to corruption, he could be a sentient dragon minion that is deceiving us.

That’s such a strawman argument that I would facepalm at it.

Who knows, maybe Gaheron and all Flame Legion shamans who undergo the Baelfire ritual at the Burning Forest are actually sentient Primordus minions that are deceiving us by making us think they’re not working for a dragon but themselves – clearly this is the reason why the Molten Alliance Flame Legion prisoner thinks he and his kind will survive the dragons!

Shiren.9532:

The idea doesn’t require that the Pale Tree breaks free from a dragon’s corruption on its own. All it requires is that the Pale Tree is somehow free from a dragon’s corruption. We don’t know about the origins of the seed, it could have been freed before Ronan planted it (thus freeing the other seeds as well). We don’t know what happened to the tree before the first sylvari were born – it could have been freed in that time. Maybe someone physically freed it. Maybe it was freed (such a weird looking word) by something within the Aether.

It being freed before being found by Ronan is honestly the ONLY chance it has. Unless it was the Dream itself that freed the Pale Tree.

Given that dragon corruption alters the physical body and is magical in nature, I doubt that someone could “physically free it.”

Shiren.9532:

The “evidence” debunking the sylvari connection to elder dragon idea is pretty much entirely conjecture and assumptions (as is the idea that sylvari are dragon minions).

It’s really not. It’s actually the argument of a lack of any supporting evidence. The theory was born on the presumption that a dragon minion can break free of its own will (given by Glint in EoD), the Dream functioning like the dragon minion hive mind concept, and that the sylvari’s immunity means it’s already corrupted – both have been debunked, in Arah explorable, White Stag storyline, and Crucible of Eternity story and explorable respectively. Slap on the fact that Malyck had no (known) Dream – and if he had a Dream, it wasn’t the same Dream as the Pale Tree – you get a fairly decent argument against an argument that has only debunked evidence supporting it (read: no support at all).

Shiren.9532:

The Pale Tree seemed to know there was something dangerous where Scarlet’s mind was going, why would the Pale Tree think that?

Well, as stated above, the Pale Tree is not the only thing that has some degree of control over the Dream. Mind you, she calls herself the “caretaker” but the White Stag is on par to the Pale Tree – both beings are half in the Dream, half in reality (Tyria). Chances are that there are other things that are the same. The entity, I believe, is one such “other things” – whatever the entity is (another tree? this “Red Vine”? Originator of the Nightmare? Mordremoth (not naturally tied to the Dream but is so for the same reasons the Pale Tree and White Stag are?)).

CharrGirl.7896:

That way she can protect them not to be corrupted from the start, in their Dream. That’s why the Tree warned her not to look further, or it would break her.

Doesn’t explain sylvari immunity while other dragon minions aren’t.

CharrGirl.7896:

And what about the “random” jungle dragon boss in Sylvari Dream sequence when you start a personal storyline? The “poison” that threatens every new sylvari?

It’s not random. It’s the sylvari PC’s Wyld Hunt. It doesn’t threaten every new sylvari – it only threatened one. It was a Wyld Hunt manifestation given form by the Nightmare Court’s influence (hence the Nightmare Hounds). It was a representation of Zhaitan.

CharrGirl.7896:

And why isn’t Pale Tree evil? Because it grew on top of Ventari’s teachings.

That wouldn’t affect dragon corruption. As explained in large detail in the sylvari are mordremoth’s minions thread, dragon corruption removes free will – higher ranked minions hold more intelligence while lower ranked minions do not (they’re practically mindless the lower you get). But none of them can disobey the dragon. It is an impossibility, they wouldn’t even consider it. Glint only became free because the Forgotten used an ancient long-lost (until after Zhaitan’s death) ritual to give her free will; after she gained free will, she became sympathetic to those she killed because she could read their minds, their thoughts, as they died. And thus she turned on her master.

The Pale Tree had nothing akin to the Forgotten’s ritual. Ventari’s teachings are non-magical nurture, which wouldn’t affect a dragon minion any more than an old lover would be able to convince the minion to act differently (was attempted in Sea of Sorrows).

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Actually, Vorpp said, and I quote verbatim “[Omadd’s] notes say its purpose was to shut down the mind’s security system and open it- like opening a door- to welcome in the truths of the Eternal Alchemy. But our minds are protected for a reason.” That sounds to me like it was something bigger than a mental breakdown- actually, it sounds a lot like the Voices of Koda: " the simple fact that their mind is always open to the Mists means that the Voice can become unstable. Only through the will of Koda does a Voice remain grounded."

Nice interpretation. Seems possible. Though I took his “our minds are protected for a reason” to be a bit more scientific – such as “if we make our subconscious part of the consciousness, our brains will become overactive and though we think more and faster, it can lead to problems because our brains just cannot handle all that thinking power.” A play off of the whole “human brains only use 10% of their ability” kind of thing.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Also, at the end of each bit of evidence, the game makes you choose between three possible theories- but the NPCs will shoot you down if you pick the wrong one, and the game stops you from progressing until you get it right. […] One of the wrong ones was “The cube made her insane. Her vision was nothing more than her mind breaking.” If I understand correctly, that’s your stance on this, but not only Vorpp but the game itself refutes it.

It was because Scott McGough more or less said that was the case – that it was a sensory deprivation machine and Scarlet didn’t see what she thought she did. Because of that, I theorized she was just hallucinating. But that theory was debunked with The Origins of Madness.

I wouldn’t be surprised given all the player theory nods made in the last two updates that they added that because it was a theory mentioned on the forums.

Visteri.3821:

What if the sylvari were dragon minions at one point but were purified a very long time ago, back during the previous cycle.

The issue with this is still their immunity to dragon corruption. As shown by Crucible of Eternity, they’re not outright immune.

moomooo.9357:

Anet has given too many arrows pointing towards dragon influences.

Really?

Because I only see two:

• Shadow of the Dragon – explained as being a manifestation of the sylvari PC’s main Wyld Hunt.
• And Scarlet’s dragon painting – which can mean a huge number of things; from her target to the entity to even another tool of hers
  “Two” doesn’t make “too many”.

ElysianEternity.6215:

The toxin-sample one’s complete, I checked my chat-box. It’s just really short.

Impossible. The dialogue box with Kasmeer shows at the top that you clicks a “more dialogue” option, but the prior talk by Kasmeer isn’t there.

You know how when you talk to an NPC, there’s usually at least 2 clicking options, one with an arrow? The image of the dialogue box (talking to the NPC) shows an arrow option clicked at the top of it. You’re missing at least one image.

ElysianEternity.6215:

Despite the Nightmare having been pushed onto the Dream of Dreams for years, all Sylvari are of the dream. There’s no Sylvari born from nightmare.

Figured I could take this part out of your spoiler tag. This isn’t true actually. There are sylvari NPCs in-game who awoke with an instinctive call to the Nightmare.

BrunoBRS.5178:

also can we please drop the spoiler tags now? it made sense while the update was off-limits due to technical issues, but now? come on, it’s the lore forum :P

Yeah, I think at this point people have a “you have been warned” mentality enough.

They wouldn’t keep going into threads like this if they wanted to avoid spoilers on Scarlet when a new chapter was recently released.

Lots of interesting things. I didn’t really read the thread since ElysianEternity’s post (tyvm for those images though some, such as some bit on the Toxic Alliance, seems missing). Things that catch my eye:

On the journal: (I see no need for a spoiler tag).
Elysian – you put the entries out of order. This confused me as I thought at first that they were placed out of order in-game. xD

But to end the journal’s timeframe argument for all… Though we don’t know when she was born or went into the machine we know that:

• She was in the Grove for eight years.
• She was with Beigarth for 1 winter.
• She was with Asagi for 2 years.
• She was in each college for about 1 year each (roughly 3 years total), and spent additional but less time with the Inquest.
• She wondered about for “several months” (less than a year though) after being exiled before going to the machine.

The journal cannot start with her as Ceara in the Grove and end with her coming out of the machine. Why? You have roughly 6 or more years between Ceara leaving the grove and her entering the machine. The journal is dated from Winter (Colossus) 1322 to Fall (Scion) 1323. Just shy of 2 years. If it ends with her entering the machine then it begins with her in the colleges – at which point she had already known Omadd too.

So ahem HAH! Bruno. :P Even if it may be Ceara, it isn’t with her from in the Grove to into the machine. :P

Yeah, pointless “in your face” moment that doesn’t mean I was right (that the whole journal was post-machine). Though indications do point there with the comments after…

ANYWAYS! What I think Scarlet’s master plan is:

Edit: Gotta continue on next post. Too long.

Zaxares.5419:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

I have. Didn’t get anything that acknowledged my order.

Bleh. Guess I’ll be doing the story instance on my Priory Elementalist then.

Infinity Ball asura may have unique dialogue if you do that, maybe?

We should get folks going in with different combinations that may affect dialogue – all races, and infinity ball asura mainly.

ElysianEternity.6215:

Phew. Took me a while but here is all the dialogue of the LS instance A Study in Scarlet on Imgur.

Merry theorycrafting. ;P

I’ll post my own thoughts later.

Awesome. Thanks. Will read it later and theorycraft from that since my laptop can barely handle GW2.

Anise and some mesmers-behind-the-scenes were the ones giving the Watchknights mesmer abilities.

Scarlet would need some mesmers to cloak her Twisted Clockwork minion. Which given she has stone holograms and whatever-powered-the-veil-around-the-Tower-of-Nightmares, I doubt she’d be unable to do.

Also, it’s Evon, not Ellen, who’s screaming about an imminent attack.

Given FlamingFoxx, it sounds like Marjory and Kasmeer only know because they read Ellen Kiel’s reports from the Thaumanova Reactor Fractal investigations, not because they’re spellcasters.

And from what I’ve heard about Taimi, it sounds like the Synergetics only speculated that they existed, rather than had known for certain they did.

But this is all second-hand information as I haven’t gone in-game yet. But it sounds like no one but Taimi has “good knowledge of leylines” but rather recent knowledge from either Taimi or Kiel’s investigations.

In the very final instance of the Personal Story, there’s a group of norn you can listen in on.

They call the Commander the “Dragonslayer”.

There’s your title. ALL HAIL THE DRAGONSLAYER!

Issue with using these kinds of titles in the Living Story is that the Living Story is for everyone regardless of their placement in the Personal Story. You’d need at least 5 different lines – per language, per mention – if you mention the PC by the original term (Savant, Valiant, Slayer of Issormir, Legionnaire, and Hero of Shaemoor). You could add in the Orders rank but not everyone would reach there and there’s three different ranks meaning you’d have an additional 9. Or you could skip the Orders rankings and keep to the racials and Commander (Forging the Pact and on).

I hope when they continue the personal story (and they better kitten well better, and I would much prefer if the past Living World – except maybe holiday stuff where it isn’t relevant – gets made into a post Victory or Death personal storyline, perhaps with some alterations to make it more personal) they use Dragonslayer from then on. I mean, you slew Zhaitan. Screw being the second-in-command of the Pact. You are THE DRAGONSLAYER.

Or alternatively: Champion of Orr. Cuz King Reza granted you that title kitten and it doesn’t exist anywhere (completing the final PS achievement should have granted that title…).

Of course, all the above would count primarily for voice acting. In dialogue boxes, NPCs already often refer to the PCs by their name.

It does not confirm Mordremoth.

All it confirms is that Scarlet either has split personalities or there is sentience in/using the Dream.

And guess what? The Pale Tree and White Stag are sentience using/in the Dream. Who’s to say there isn’t some other tree or entity akin to the White Stag that’s not so good natured (coughRedVinecough) that isn’t doing the same?

Yeah, Mordremoth NOT confirmed.

And even if it is Mordremoth, it’s heavily implied the entity is using the Dream which is NOT unique to the sylvari (again: see White Stag) thus it is no proof that it’s something hardwired into all sylvari (see: Malyck has no Dream).

No checkmate.

/takes your queen that was checking my king

First image of this thread heavily implies that Scarlet is searching underground, though.

And I saw screenshots that show that Braham only recently learned about leylines – from Taimi. Marjory and Kasmeer may be the same but I haven’t seen that dialogue.

Shiren.9532:

Now I’ve personally demonstrated a lack of knowledge of how the sylvari Dream works but isn’t this new information that could support the idea that sylvari are servants of Mordremoth?

Not really. The Dream is not unique to sylvari and natural things of the Dream (White Stag) are very benevolent and peaceful, so it doesn’t function as some sort of tie between Mordy and the sylvari in the “theory” – or shouldn’t, rather. It does in some people’s thoughts.

It actually hints that the Dream and/or Nightmare itself/themselves may be sentient.

Or someone akin to the Pale Tree and White Stag in that they exist in both Dream of Dreams and Tyria has contacted Scarlet.

Or it doesn’t really have anything to do with the Dream and Vorpp’s just theorizing.

Shiren.9532:

Is that their way of saying, what happened in that machine was connected to a sylvari’s connection to the Dream? She wasn’t corrupted from something external, the machine made her vulnerable to something already inside of her, something she was already connected to.

To me, its their way of saying “whatever happened is possible without anything physical involved” and that “the machine doesn’t do anything special like sending the mind into the Eternal Alchemy/Mists” – in what it confirms is just simply “Ceara broke because of something mental-related”.

Shiren.9532:

We don’t know where the sylvari come from. We know there was a cave with seeds, but we know nothing about the seeds. It it possible that sylvari have the potential to be dragon minions, but they have mental protection (possibly from the Pale Tree) preventing them from their true origins (I think Vorpp does say everyone’s mind has some protection)? Scarlet is becoming unravelled because using Omadd’s device, she broke through that protection and became vulnerable to what was on the other side. The Pale Tree knows about this and tries to protect Scarlet from what she doesn’t know. This could also be Caithe’s secret, Caithe knows that sylvari are on a knife’s edge from being the very thing they fight. That would also be a secret worth keeping. One, that if it ever got out, would change Tyria as we know it.

This all still seems really unlikely.

DarcShriek.5829:

Accept Malyck is not of the pale tree and looks like a human also. Therefore, it’s not unknown for Sylvari to look like humans, but that’s beside the point. The point is, Sylvari are intelligent, no matter what they look like. I can’t believe for one instant that the last time the existed, they never encountered other intelligent species, when this time, they have.

Except*

And all that proves is that Malyck’s tree chose to make him look human like as well. Which isn’t saying much given he’s newborn.

Who said they haven’t? I certainly didn’t. Try re-reading my previous post that you quoted. Better yet, I’ll just bulletpoint the important lines:

• “that means that those not of the Pale Tree may not be of human appearance.” – translation: some may, not all will be.
• “There were plenty of plant creatures in GW1, even if they didn’t interact with us on an intellectual level doesn’t mean they weren’t intelligent (take, for example, the fact that the charr didn’t in Prophecies).” – Translation: Just because we didn’t see intelligence from those hundreds upon hundreds of plant creatures doesn’t mean they weren’t intelligent. It just means they didn’t communicated with humanity and humanity thought them non-intelligent (wouldn’t be the first time )
• “It was seldom explored as it was the second most dangerous landscapes to be in (first being Ring of Fire) on continental Tyria.” – Translation: The Maguuma was seldom explored. A race of sylvari, humanoid or not, could have easily remained unknown to the greater documentations of the world. The druids may have interacted with them, but the druids didn’t interact with the rest of humanity so the knowledge wouldn’t be passed on.
• “It wouldn’t be surprising at all if there were sentient plants – other than treants – that lived deeper into the Maguuma, actually. And the cave would certainly be deeper into the Maguuma Jungle given how it hasn’t been found after Ronan.” – Translation: We may not go as deep into the Maguuma in GW2 as we did in GW1, but there’s still more of the Maguuma and even by GW2’s time the cave has not been found after Ronan discovered it, it wasn’t even in GW1’s areas. Indicating it’s further to the west or north in the Maguuma. Unexplored lands = people, places, and things previously unknown to exist.

There’s a LOT of potential explanations for “the sylvari are actually not a new race… they’re just new to this part of Tyria.”

ElysianEternity.6215:

For everyone who can’t access the Edge of the Mists-map,

Here’s the dialogue on Imgur.

I’m still working on the instance with Kasmeer and Marjory for safe-keeping until it’s on the wiki, quick reference and those that can’t get on GW2 during this LS, it’s 200 screenshots (****) so putting that together will take a few hours.

tyvm for this. I won’t get back to my good computer until Feb 10th. So I’m stuck with terrible comp and lag until then.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

BrunoBRS.5178:

yeah, i saw her during the mirror mission, she made it out alive (that i recall), then i went with piloting an immortal megazord because honestly, why would you pick any of the other options? that’s one of the best missions in the game :P

so i’ll just pretend she lived through it :P

No, the best mission is the one following it with the Cauldron. Because using that thing against the Risen . . .

. . . mmmm, that was so satisfying

i fail to see how anything can be better than a golem-suit with a spammable instagib megalaser.

You can keep your golem and your cauldron. While using those were fun, I prefer the emotional experience the other two paths gave me. One being funny then sad (though I /facepalmed at the last bit when what’shisname from human tutorial sacrifices himself in a cinematic because why the hell would I not do anything to save him?), the other being epic then sad then REVENGE!

frostyraziel.1854:

I don’t want to be that guy, but please, anet, stop forcing this crap down our throats. Same-sex relationships are not something that fits a fantasy game. This helps in no way the lore that has already been damaged by the living story. I know you want to make the characters more compelling, but this will just make most people scratch their heads. At least keep it subtle.

Don’t even get me started on the multiracial things with Rox and Braham, because if it’s going in that direction, then this is just gross territory.

There are other ways to make us care about the characters without forcing this. GW2 living story really lacks good characters at the moment and this is not helping.

Not only is this post really homophobic sounding – especially since it’s wrong about homosexual relationships “not belonging” in a fantasy story (if heterosexual relationships fit, why can’t homosexual relationships fit?) – but it’s extremely rude IMO. It isn’t forcing no more than any other relationship would be, either. I now really wish this forum had downvote abilities.

Also, I think I’ve read that Rox admits that she had a mate in her previous warband and is still recovering from it in this update. So there’s nothing between Braham and Rox. Nor is there really any ever evidence of such. People take Braham’s mentions of friendships a bit too… well, I won’t insult their tastes even if I disagree.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I think it fits fine in a fantasy game.
It’s just that in this case, it feels a bit forced. It’s far from subtle.

Why would it need to be subtle?

At least they aren’t making googly eyes at each other going “I wub u!” “No, I wub u!” “I wub u more!” “No, -I- wub u more!”

THAT to me is a ridiculous relationship, and the orientation doesn’t matter for jack.

I see no issue with their relationship, nor do I see any need for subtlety. Does Logan and Jennah have to be subtle to the readers? No? Then why should Kasmeer and Marjory? Why is lesbian relationships “fan service”? If anything of them was fan service, it was the ONE line after the Tower of Nightmares fell where Kasmeer said she was naked under an illusion. The rest of their relationship is nothing near fan service. It is storytelling. If you cannot tell the difference between them then I feel sorry for you.

And at this point I am getting tired of these complaints because of how asinine they are sounding as this goes on.

Eglesia.5049:

They kind of forced it upon us, by sitting through a five minute instance having them pick colors, names etc. It was rather irritating, when I could be doing more important things.

If you’re referring through the LA instance last update where the relationship was really shown to be there, it wasn’t forced since you could have left after talking to Ela. If you’re referring to this update… cannot comment, but from what I have heard the relationship is mentioned at the beginning by Rox and it’s not at all relevant to the remainder or the instance (aka the reason you had to “sit through five minutes”.

Eglesia.5049:

On a side note: I think it would be awesome, if Marjory died and Kasmeer goes off the deep end. That would be an amazing ending to the Living Story.

No. It would not be an amazing ending. It would be lame because it’s just ArenaNet singing the same note as throughout the Personal Story, and our hearts will become fully irrevocably jaded to ArenaNet’s characters and we will not care for them because “well they’ll just get killed off… oh look, I was right.”

CharrGirl.7896:

Naranek.3467:

Thought I picked up a vibe from those two, despite limited play due to computer problems. Good for them, I think they’re cute together. So that means DON’T GO KILLING KASMEER! It’s like Personal Story all over again; entire time I’m running with the bomb tech from that nice Asura couple I’m thinking “yeah, he’s toast.”

Omg…you mean those 2 asura in one of the Orr missions? Yeah, actually with order mentor death this was the only other death that left me with a gaping jaw of disbelief when the little guy died. I remember there was real emotion and good writing there…

Yeah…we can stop killing good characters now. Hang in there Kasmeer! T-T

I actually thought “yeah, *she*’s toast.” Not sure why, but I found the non-combattant who’s protected by stealth magic and a combative hologram to be the one who dies… particularly when she’s placed away from me while the guy wasn’t.

So as the mission seemed to be coming to an end (the BEST of the three invasions into Cursed Shore storylines, IMO – it felt the most warlike and had the best cinematics of all the PS beyond the tutorials), I thought “oh, maybe this path doesn’t have someone die… After all the other path had 2 while the third had 1!” And then… he dies.

Zott, Tegwen, and the mentors (first time I played it, rip Tybalt) were the only deaths that affected me. All others were predictable to varying degrees or just uncaring.

ArenaNet needs to not kill for a nice long time – maybe two full arcs – and then kill off someone we have gotten to know well and long. Like… maybe Zojja. I’d suggest Trahearne or Logan but then you’d get this.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Hopelessalchemist.4816:

Out of all the homosexual relationships listed before, I’m surprised that no one has even bothered to remember Tegwen and Carys. And then to add to the number of characters I liked that Anet has written out, Tegwen was killed off as well.

Not sure if that should be considered a spoiler or not…

Why all the character deaths? I sobbed when Tybalt died and then the deaths kept coming. Is killing any of the LS characters really necessary?

I don’t think Carys and Tegwen were a couple. It could be, of course, but it felt to me just like mentor and student.

They weren’t. They outright state that Tegwen’s like an older sister and teacher to Carys if you play the Act with Wisdom storyline. Bonus points if you do all steps with the two (sylvari Act with Wisdom; Priory helping them; bait the Eye of Zhaitan; do Vigil invasion into Cursed Shore). You get some special dialogue from Carys if you do at least the Act with Wisdom, bait the Eye, and Vigil’s invasion plan during The Source of Orr.

But yeah, they’re not lovers.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I didn’t think one or the other died. I only saw them on my human character in Orr, which made it seem like both made it out alive.

Though the journal mentions Tegwen dying if you do Through the Looking Glass (baiting the Eye of Zhaitan), she dies during the Vigil’s invasion plan into the Cursed Shore. She dies atop the Cathedral of Zephyres, in fact.

Nikku.3562:

Tegwen was probably the only character death that actually upset me. I didn’t even notice when Sieran died. I cheered when Tybalt died (seriously, people like him?). When Tegwen sacrificed herself I did /y TEGWEN, NOOOOOOO! She was only in the game for a short while, but her relationship (probably not Relationship though) with Carys was really well written, and Carys’ and Ballista Geargrind’s little eulogy to her was beautiful.

I still think of Tegwen whenever I’m wandering around the Grove.

Tegwen and Carys are actually some of the most active non-main story NPCs in the personal story (being in a total of… 9 story steps I think). Along with Snarl and Gallina from the Ash Legion/Vigil retaking Claw Island/fighting the Mouth of Zhaitan steps (whom enter a relationship at the end of the PS), and Kekt (Priory, Forging the Pact, and Priory’s invasion plan where he dies by a guy from early norn PS).

There’s a surprisingly large amount of NPCs from early story steps in Orr, but sadly you get a very small chance of figuring out which NPCs relate how. After my first character, I went out of my way to do Claw Island and Orr paths to get any old NPCs returning that I could.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

I’m pretty sure Ellen swings the other way. In the short story posted that showed Kasmeer’s arrival on Southsun it was sort of implied that she was attracted to Kasmeer. Either that or the writer really likes Kasmeer and let too much of that slip through in Ellen’s analysis of her.

(http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Welcome_to_Paradise) <— Particularly paragraphs 7-10, but there are bits after that. Notably the way that Ellen almost addresses her as “My Lady”, but also the offering to be her personal body guard and the constant noticing of her appearance and demeanour. Or course you could chalk it up to Ellen being a very strong woman who is perhaps a little less “feminine” (I dislike that term though) because of her position as captain of the Lionguard/being raised by Magnus or whatever that story is (haven’t had time to read that because until just now didn’t know it existed….).

I was going to suggest that, but that’s just Ellen being polite to a noblewoman IMO. Addressing Kasmeer as “My Lady” would be a very common thing to do to noble women, at least in DR, and Ellen shows courtesy throughout our knowing her (except on the field where’s she’s crude and abrupt).

I wouldn’t put much into that. Not without other hints of interests in women.

It may be more accurate to say they theorized they exist, rather than “figured out” but that’s me nitpicking.

Though I’m 99.99% sure this is just a hashbacked way to include the term “ley line” into the game for the first time, just handwaved into it with some means to include them without Scarlet mentioning them and (logically) leaving everyone else going “wtf are ley lines?” or her going into monologue mode.

BrunoBRS.5178:

on calendars: seasons are unstable things. you have your soltices and equinoxes accurately happening, but that’s the only accuracy there is. the whole fact that human wintersday was about “will spring show up early or late this year” is proof that they don’t really base the calendar on accuracy though. a change to a solar calendar could make it more accurate.

and i don’t think “lore is kitten”, i just think that whining (because it’s gotten to the point where it became that) for months about incredibly minor changes as if it destroyed the canon is too much.

on those changes: the updates are already mostly month-long. rytlock is staying there another two weeks, just like the rest of the origins of madness content. if everything is spoonfed (by directing us at every little thing) then it loses the sense of discovery that you get when such things happen.

It.. was.. the gods… influence… The gods caused winter to expand or not. The days of the calendar stayed in place too – it was just affecting whether or not there’d be snow during spring. Their calendar had never changed.

And you know that YOU were the one to bring this up. I didn’t even mention the calendar change! I mentioned that they’ve confirmed via Angel that the two timelines progress at the same rate. So it’s not whining, because you, not me the so-called “whiner” brought it up.

And the updates aren’t always month long. I mean, Kasmeer and co aren’t at the Marionette anymore and the instance in LA is no longer available (no clue about the probes or the lair or Rytlock). And remember Twilight Assault? Two weeks not four. Halloween was, iirc, three this past time.

i doubt they’ll nuke LA for good, but earlier today i was talking with guildies how i really, really would like it if DR became the new hub, and they spread out things more. make that city worth visiting for more than visual spectacle.

DR already has that exclusive place… They’ll make DR a hub to promote people to buy that BS pass! OH SHI-

FlamingFoxx.1305:

I don’t want DR to be the new hub.. It’s very pretty but it’s the human city and I am not a human.

Besides the Grove has a far better, far more centralized, layout which makes it much quicker to get from place to place – DR is very spread out. – Rata Sum isn’t too bad either.

Hoelbrak is too spread out and the Black Citadel is a nightmare to navigate.

My vote’s on the Grove or Rata Sum. Pitiful humans…

Pfft.

Ebonhawke all the way. You got the TP, crafters, and Bank all along the same strip with no evetns and a non-contested WP nearby. Just add in a Mystic Forge and gates to the other cities (or an option at that gate to go to the other cities) and it’s in.

But even that’s not true. The new hub will be…

Wait for it…

Waaaiit for it…

SCARLET’S BASE! We’re commandeering the flying drill after she attacks, and it’ll move about Tyria as our base of operations from here on out.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Just got into EotM. Taimi has confirmed the probes exist to find ley lines- specifically the biggest and strongest. Also, apparently Synergetics discovered them a long time back.

How far is “a long time back”?

Scarlet discovered their existence thanks to Thaumanova. Which was just before the PS. Which places it in late 1324 or early 1325 AE. It’s now 1327 AE.

To a little kid like Taimi, 2-3 years can be a long time.

You shouldn’t have to. They never did that before. If you failed to participate in the current, then you just join in at the beginning of the next one like everyone else.

There will be NPCs making references now and again to whether or not you were with them at xyz points in the past, but beyond that there’s no real known difference.

JayMack…
Sounds like she's in denial to me there, not that she's "certain" about it. Sounds like the thing is manipulating her, making her think that what she wants... is the same thing as what it wants. If that makes any sense.

The cave is guarded by PLANT creatures.

Given the fact that the Pale Tree chose the sylvari’s appearance, as stated in an interview before release, then that means that those not of the Pale Tree may not be of human appearance. There were plenty of plant creatures in GW1, even if they didn’t interact with us on an intellectual level doesn’t mean they weren’t intelligent (take, for example, the fact that the charr didn’t in Prophecies).

The Maguuma Jungle was full of man-eating and mobile plants. It was seldom explored as it was the second most dangerous landscapes to be in (first being Ring of Fire) on continental Tyria. It wouldn’t be surprising at all if there were sentient plants – other than treants – that lived deeper into the Maguuma, actually. And the cave would certainly be deeper into the Maguuma Jungle given how it hasn’t been found after Ronan.

BrunoBRS.5178:

and hey, 5 days. we can assume tyrians would keep adding leap years until they got a proper calendar. the sumerians had to add an entire month on leap years to get their calendar synced properly :P

and then there are the romans, which lived with a calendar two months short for quite some time…

I’m not sure about the Sumerians or Romans, but the Mouvelian calendar is a seasonal one. It begins on the first day of Spring.

Even in just one year, this makes a huge change, since Wintersday is Day 360 of the year and functions as the last day of Winter. You get more winter after that? It’s not the Spring Solstice!

There’s a lot more to it than “just adding on days” when you think logically with how the lore was already set up.

But then you can just handwave it with “who the kitten cares, lore is kitten anyways” like your comments do.

BrunoBRS.5178:

personally, i like that things happen whether you’re around or not. the story junkies will find out about these sooner or later, and they’re just extra fluff, not story critical things.

Or they won’t. I mean, we didn’t know of Rytlock until the last day before the new update, where everyone is elsewhere. I bet a lot of small things like this slipped by over the months.

If ArenaNet wants to have such small details, we need more time to see them.

Like a month. coughFlameandFrostwasperfecttimejustneededmorecontentcough

Kalarchis.8635:

Wait, that’s a detonation? It always looked to me like a laser that Mari was shooting out of her mouth. You don’t really see what happens to Mari after the weapon fires, so I always just assumed it went back into the drill.

Doesn’t change my theory though. The self-destruct feature could be the coup de grace, or at the least a trump card in case the other attacks from Mari fail. If all she wanted was a big bomb, wouldn’t she just make a big bomb?

The laser beam is going into the Marionette. That’s it charging.

Talk to the NPCs after – if it’s still there, if not go to the wiki article for the event, their dialogues got added and they all mention the Marionette blowing up. Which gives credence to Rox’s “culling the herd” theory about the true purpose of the “weapons test” that you get if you succeed.

The Marionette seems to me to be bait. For us, the heroes of Tyria. She drew us all to her Marionettes, charged it up, and blew it up.

I meant more of “what happened to the healing properties of the water?” – As I noted, there’s still water around the areas that had such healing water before (southwestern corner of Brisban Wildlands).

Moss Scarabs were further north than either. One may argue northern Metrica but not really. They’d be more prominent in Brisban Wildlands, and certainly weren’t in Caledon’s area during GW1.

I don’t see a displacement of the seed being cause for something being different with the Pale Tree other than a different nurture. A change in nurture (or rather, how one treats the dragon minions), however, does not alter dragon minion perception so that is no standing evidence for the theory that sylvari are dragon minions.

To your later questions:

Why wouldn’t the seeds be guarded?

A parent protects their young while they’re still vulnerable amongst almost every animal species. Same thing could be the case here.

Who said the Pale Tree is unique? Maybe it’s just the first of many? We know the sylvari aren’t the first of the plant races out there, they’re just the most humanoid – and we were told the Pale Tree chose a human-like appearance. We know there’s at least one other tree (Malyck’s) which makes sylvari that are humanoid (at least more humanoid than other trees); and the Tower of Nightmares was hinted at being sapient and made krait-looking sylvari (Toxic Hybrid) in pods akin to the Pale Tree.

The only way the Pale Tree seems to be unique is in her chosing the form of the sylvari (caused no doubt by Ronan’s influence) and her being part of the Dream (Malyck lacks a Dream hinting his tree may as well- and we know the Dream is not unique unto sylvari, given the White Stag – so the connection to the Dream may be a case of location, given the Dream copies Ogham Wilds and is considered very close to it).

Ask Electro, he’s the one who mentioned Canach pronouncing it as Kee-ar-ah rather than cee-ar-ah (or “sarah” if you cut the ee sound).

I was pretty sure that Caithe said her name in Twilight Arbor’s new path anyways, didn’t see? I could have sworn the name was spoken aloud as Sarah…

I wonder if it’s a canon thing that the other things that were in GW1 but not GW2 (hydras, behemots, dryders, aloes/stalkers/other plants, non-raptor dinosaurs) had disappeared unexpectedly and it’s just that no one cares.

The cinematic likes to glitch a lot. It’s supposed to show the formation of a star (as Varra Skylark mentions), but sometimes you just see the black hole which is a texture meant to “unveil” the star, and othertimes you may just see the star – not forming, always there. But on occasion you can watch it for what it’s meant to be:

A purple-black mist coalescing into a star.

Kalarchis.8635:

But remember that her tormentor is some being that was looking back at her in the mists, and she has a giant combat robot that comes out of the drill. If she wanted a leyline or a bloodstone, what does she need a battle robot attached to the drill for? It makes the most sense to me that the drill is for reaching an elder dragon, at which point Mari comes out to fight it.

1) Unless it’s mentioned in this patch, the location of her “tormentor” is unknown.
2) The Marionette doesn’t seem to me to be part of the final product. She blew the thing up every time the event failed – that is what killed everyone, not some mega aethercannon, though you’d only realize if you talked to the NPCs after the event. She sent a brand new marionette each and every attack. So even if it is, she’s just be sending it out to blow up it seems.

BrunoBRS.5178:

you really should get over the calendar change :P just think of it as a correction as tyrian astronomy evolved. it’s not like earth is much different. took us forever to settle on a proper calendar, and even then the kitten thing requires fixing every 4 years.

plus, i think it’s more of a rough estimate. it would be kind of silly if precisely every other tyrian week, something horrible happened :P like, on a macro scale the calendars are synced, but on a micro scale they’re not. certain LS events would take longer in tyrian days, some wouldn’t.

You realize in the past 250 years, the calendar would have shifted amongst the seasons five times? There would have been snow during summer five times in just the past 250 years with a 5 day difference.

And that wasn’t the point of my post. My point was that Angel McCoy explicitly stated that the two worlds are now synced up in progression. So yes, as stupid as it sounds, kitten hits the fan every 2 weeks in Tyria.

Really? I had been pronouncing it like Sarah…

Humorously, Scarlet’s original name is pronounced the same/similar as MY sylvari! (Kierra – Kee-ehr-ah) o.o And I play her as a forced Soundless (something traumatic happened, she lost her connection)… just like Scarlet…. And both had the same cowl…

STOP STEALING MY CHARACTER ANET!

:P

Thank goodness Kierra doesn’t go “teehee” and is a thief not engineer…

Miroe.2054:

Yet there have to be exeptions because something must have happened in their past and the past of the tree.

How can you know? We don’t know what their origins are, nor do we know how they “should act” if uninfluenced by the Ventari Tablet (though Malyck gives a hint to this) or the Dream (Malyck lacks such and the White Stag is on par to the Pale Tree to the Dream indicating it is not unique unto sylvari but the Pale Tree is unique compared to its kind).

Without any indication of how the sylvari “should” be there is no reason to believe that there has to be exceptions to how they “are.”

Miroe.2054:

Concerning the body morph of the nightmare courts, for some reason, established courtiers all seem to have the same brown look.. however I wouldn’t compare them to destoyers. Its probably more complicated there.

False. Not all courtiers. Gavin is a high ranking courtier, higher than Sariel whom we face in both the White Stag storyline (along with Gavin) and the Twilight Arbor story mode (where she dies). Gavin is really bright toned in color (I think Brangoire and Laurant in TA (story and explorable respectively) are too, but they don’t have an image on the wiki). Most courtiers utilize the same colors because they use the same models – few courtiers use unique models. And the brown look is not unique to Nightmare Courtiers either.

The generic “dark” look is akin to how most non-onfire Flame Legion use a bright orange with white stripes model, or how most bandits are white haired. The enemy factions of playable races are made to stand out among the common allied NPCs

Miroe.2054:

(Destinys edge spoiler alert!)At a certain point in “Destinys edge” Faolain frees Caithe of a poison she gave her to convince her to join the court. After she almost dies she takes the poison out again. This causes her Arm to become thorny and it starts to rot. Now THIS is what Mordremoths corruption probably looks like.

I don’t know. Rot is more of Zhaitan’s domain.

Miroe.2054:

And lower minions can very much be freed. Its possible all the way down to a chicken. :P

I never said they couldn’t. I said that they’re mindless (or less minded). They have a much lower thought function and are more of a “kill everything in sight” kind of creature – while higher ranked minions talk, think for themselves (but are NOT free willed – difference between capable of thought and capable of deciding whom to follow or not) and can order the lower minions around (also, when a higher ranked minion dies, lower minions become mindless – often fleeing or just losing all tactical thought and go into zerging mode).

Miroe.2054:

So in the end, if you removed the influence of the dragon be it through any means, (like the chicken ritual in orr) that intelligence can be used freely. And they could live even without the guidance of a dragon.

Intelligence != Free Will.

See my previous posts on the previous page (thank you, posting to a new page, seems Miroe missed them).

Miroe.2054:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

We have no reason to assume any of them have any sort of remaining free will.

Glint managed to make decisions after the corruption was taken from her and destroyers may too. I don’t say it IS that way. But don’t say, this is not possible. Something could have happened to to the Sylvaris corruption, there in Ventaris refuge. Something could have happened to the pale tree and the dream.. maybe even to the dragon himself and thus to the other sylvari of the other trees… we can consider it.

The destroyers did not gain free will like Glint did. Glint was only able to because of the Forgotten’s ritual. Simply killing a nearby dragon champion does not grant free will.

See my previous post for further explanation.

There is absolutely no reason to believe something “happened” to the Pale Tree, the seeds in the cave, or Mordremoth.