Guild Wars 2

Without developer commentation, it’s near impossible to say, in all honesty.

Her dialogue indicates that she was there. She’s the special consultant mentioned if you pass the two Inquest members near the entrance. However, a few things to keep in mind:

1. The Fractals are never perfect recreations of the past, but given the purpose was investigation and we were turned into Inquest it seems to me that the point was “this is as accurate as you can get”.
2. The Arcane Council guy who’s part of the Inquest makes mention of Scarlet as of A Very Merry Wintersday, and he mentions that the Inquest were the quickest of the asura groups (Inquest and the three colleges) to kick Ceara out, which happened before the experiment, so it seems a bit weird that she is there as Scarlet Briar and as Inquest.

Either the councillor is lying (wouldn’t doubt it!), or that’s not a perfect copy. She may be a copy of Scarlet from some other point in time and location, which would explain why she talks as if not talking to Inquest – and her “death destruction mayhem, my job is done” bit could be referring to something else. That’d be a very odd way of doing it though, so I doubt it.

I don’t think that was Scarlet visiting the Fractal like us – theoretically, then she should have been turned into Inquest too, since that’s an effect of the Fractal and not Dessa.

“when she still had contact with the menders”

When did she lose contact? No one viewed her as a threat until Queen’s Jubille. She could have gone visit them at any point until then, honestly.

And in all honesty, ArenaNet probably chose that place not due to its proximity to the Priory, but the lack of hostility+"in a cave" for their little cave painting.

It’s actually “major” race, as I see it frequently.

The term really just refers to the most populous, advanced, unified, and more importantly, playable races. As such, all “non-playable” races are simply condensed into “minor” or “lesser” races – not so much because they’re a lesser but mainly due to being more of a minority in comparison.

Dredge are the only non-playable race that comes close from what we see of the minor race’s civilizations, but their hostility to all other races kind of prevent them from being considered a major race even if you take out the “playable” component.

Honestly, it’s just ArenaNet using “major” or “greater” over “playable.” In lore, these terms don’t really exist. It’s an OOC categorization.

Interesting. Would love a dev clarification because I certainly never saw Zaishen doing anything unique. There were NPCs in that area, but I only saw the multi-racial krewe that was reading activity which turned out to be karka.

Would also love a dev to help fill in all the dialogue gaps for old LW content, especially the earlier stuff given how much was so easily missed thanks to bugs, lag, and overall lack of documenting will. Halloween and Lost Shores suffered the most.

I believe it was Ree who had confirmed that the feelings are mutual, a while back between the release of Edge of Destiny and GW2.

Though I agree that Logan is a bit too… attached.

I think the purpose of the Vigil was to create an Order that wasn’t of human origins like the Durmand Priory and Order of Whispers are.

Which makes perfect sense. Otherwise, why not Lionguard?

Vol.7601:

Do you think it’s possible, in the GW2 world, to kill off characters?

…

They’ve already killed off at least 3 named NPCs in Scarlet’s plot. And they killed 999999999999999999999999999999999999 named NPCs in the Personal Story (okay, obviously exaggerating but still! So many deaths!).

They’ve killed off so many NPCs just as you’re starting to love them that… those who have played through the Personal Story are more often than not very cautious about caring about NPCs.

GW2 probably has more named allied NPC deaths than enemy NPC deaths…

Vol.7601:

It would be nice in future stories that we would have consequences to our actions (or even the NPCs) which result in extremely negative results such as a zone being permanently destroyed or a character being killed off.

I’d like to see something like this, but not very often. Not often at all.

Though I suppose that’s what happened to Kessex Hills, isn’kitten

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

By the way, still taking bets on who’s dying this time when we do take down Scarlet. Rox, Kasmeer, Hobo-Tron, or Taimi.

If anyone, I hope it’s Hobo-Tron.

That little golem annoys me to hell. Why do people even like him?

But I hope even more that ArenaNet learned their lesson about killing off NPCs too much in the story. While we’ve only had a few off-screen deaths of insignificant NPCs (Theo Ashford and his unknown second; Old Man in Auld Red Warf; Scholar Makkal or w/e his name was that went looking for Arcanist Kari; a few others). I think killing off any of the biconics would be a bad move on their part.

BrunoBRS.5178:

taimi just got introduced, ain’t happening.

Personal Story says:

I’m going to introduce you to a new NPC.

I’m going to kill off that NPC 2 story steps later!

I’m going to introduce you to another new NPC – though you may have known him/her already, it’s a 1 in 15 chance!

I’m going to kill off that NPC too!

I think I’ll introduce yet another NPC you may have known – a 1 in 15 chance still! And then I’ll kill her!

Yeah. Unless ArenaNet learned their lesson about the PS making NPC deaths insignificant because they happened to often and to NPCs you had a 1 in 15 chance to know, they can still kill off Taimi even if she’s new or has a tie to DE.

And to use your tie to DE: Logan knows Kasmeer and Marjory. Kasmeer more.

Arewn.2368:

The representation of gay relationships in the over all game seems okay/well balanced/appropriately representative, but there’s definitely a huge over representation of homosexual relationships among non-single important/main characters.
I don’t want to see every important character paired off, but they do need to increase the representation of hetero relationships amongst the main cast. It’s kind lame if they just make every non-single main character homosexual to draw attention/make them “special”.
I’ve no problem with homosexual characters, but as the OP alluded to, it’s starting to feel “cheap”.

Not that’s a very important/pressing issue though.

Eir, Logan, Braham. Three of the 10 “iconic” NPCs are/were/want to be in a heterosexual relationship.

Caithe, Kasmeer, Marjory. Three of the 10 “iconic” NPCs are/were/want to be in a homosexual relationship.

No indication on whether Zojja, Rytlock, or Rox have, had, or are even interested in relationships (be it one-nighters or something more permanent). Taimi is just a child so, no relationship there but likely to have a crush sooner or later (I wouldn’t use her idolizing of Scarlet, or her teasing with Braham as an indication, personally – not yet at least).

So it seems pretty even across the board for homo/hetero/unknown in orientation when it comes to the iconic figures. Wanna go further?

Jennah, Moto, Knut Whitebear are hetero. Smodur, just about all of the Captain’s Council, Evon, Trahearne, Kiel, the two asura scientists dealing with Halloween/Southsun stuff are unknown. No other main homosexual figures.

So, yeah. ArenaNet isn’t making the homosexual relationships more numerous than heterosexual relationships.

And in terms of relationship importance? Well, Logan and Jennah is pretty important, and given that Moto’s relationship is partially the cause of the SAB, that’s pretty important. You can easily say Braham’s isn’t, but Eir and her dead husband’s somewhat important to Braham’s background. Caithe’s is about as important as Logan’s, and Kasmeer/Marjory is actually not very important in the long run at all, it’s just highlighted now because it has to be sometime in order to show players “they’re in a relationship.”

And in general, you gotta realize there’s enough heterosexual relationships (or interests) to populate the entire continent. Even magic cannot make a lesbian pregnant without a man’s involvement.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

- A one-sided heterosexual crush which is embarrassing to watch between Logan Thackeray and Queen Jenna.

It’s not one-sided, however. Jennah also loves Logan, but the two’s social classes (Logan is commoner), as well as the whole strife with the Ministry and Caudecus prevents Jennah from following her heart.

You sure it wasn’t just destroyed because a player looted it for the power core component?

What Scarlet hates is conforming to a pre-existing group or falling in line under others. She’s egocentric to the max and her persona is that she views herself as a “special snowflake” character, actively trying to make such a reality… when it isn’t anywhere close to such, in all honesty (probably because she’s trying to be so special).

She doesn’t hate the Nightmare Court’s ideals, nor the court itself. She hates being part of a group she didn’t make/doesn’t lead. So even if she’s just like a courtier, she will always refuse the notion that she is a courtier.

Humorously, however, I see a good deal of people liking Abaddon because his history is heavily implied to be a fallen hero kind of story.

If they were, it’d only be that they fought like normal ambient combative NPCs against a hostile foe.

But they had no lines and no pivotal part.

“The 3-years old part was Cobiah’s suspicion, the kid’s age wasn’t actually given.”

How is that splitting hairs? Every time the boy’s age was brought up, from my memory at least, the book was saying “looks like” “seemed to be” or other similar phrases. It was all Cobiah’s guess that the boy looked three.

The rest was just me theorizing on how Cobiah could have made the mistake.

Oversight is possible, nonetheless, but not the only possibility. And I kind of expect the Narrative Continuity Designer to not succumb to mere oversights. Especially such plot pivotal ones.

The Zaishen were there since release, actually. They played no special role during the Lost Shores.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

I wasn’t referring to all the Fractals but rather the Thaumanova Reactor Fractal. This was shown to be connected to Scarlet in some manner so there is possibility that Scarlet would of been seen within Abaddon Fractal or somehow had some connection with the fractal in some form or manner.

…kitten .

Try re-reading my post. Because I know you were referring to Thaumanova Reactor. My point is that all Fractals are exploring the past, and that just because one ended up revealing something about Scarlet/being related to Scarlet, doesn’t the other must too.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Actually they could break it with relative ease. If there is enough demand for his return or if they themselves feel his return will make a good story then they will ignore their previous statement.

Oh, they could, but the question is: would they?

And all indications go “no.” While they give nods to the actions of players – be it giving a lore reason to nerfing popular farms (see Kephket and Dhuum), or acknowling player made theories (see Scarlet’s allegiance poster, Ela in this release’s instance, Temple of the Ages about old adventurers, a Piory NPC near Serenity Temple who talks about parties (the player community held an annual masquarade ball there in GW1), and Priory theories on the sylvari which I think are mentioned in Dream and Nightmare blog post) – ArenaNet doesn’t alter large pivot-able parts of their storytelling to the player’s popular demand, the closest we’ve seen for such is the return of mursaat in Eye of the North and War in Kryta. Arguably, the Abaddon fractal was ArenaNet giving the option for Abaddon’s “return” without making it a plot point.

If his return would make a good story, then we may see his return. But honestly, I’m going to remain doubtful of his return.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

I have to agree that these claims are annoying. I also doubt Abaddon will be brought back, however he makes a far more interesting villain than Scarlet.

The funny thing is… Abaddon’s has so much less to him himself than Scarlet does. He’s perhaps the least fleshed out major villain of GW1 aside from the Great Destroyer, nor does he even talk, but he’s liked the most.

Kind of humorous.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Taking into consideration the limitations inherited in an mmo concerning storytelling, it seems odd to expand Abaddon’s historical lore in the form of a dungeon. From my experience when a piece of historical lore is expanded upon in such a manner it is usually connected to the current story.

The Fractals are all about exploring history, thus far, and altered versions of it. The Fall of Abaddon fractal wouldn’t have been as his fall truly was – similarly, the Thaumanova Reactor fractal isn’t a perfect representation of what happened at Thaumanova.

When introduced, the individual Fractals had nothing to do with the Living Story (The Lost Shores). The entrance was introduced because of such, but the things within were irrelevant. I fail to see why this fractal must have had to deal with Scarlet. Maybe it dealt not with Scarlet, but with something else. If it did.

moomooo.9357:

Could it be that Scarlet meant that they had originally mistaken dragon energy as chaos energy only in that instance(ie. they knew there was chaos magic, may have seen anomalies with their proximity to dragon magic, but continued to research assuming it was still chaos magic)? And perhaps after this instance, that’s when they discovered the differences in both types of magic? Or is it fact that they knew there were two types(chaos and dragon specifically) when they were researching there?

I took it as that (your first sentence), given that seems to be what Kiel says after her investigations. I don’t think that they knew the difference in Thaumanova, and but they clearly did later on.

Either way, it’s pretty obvious there was some chaos magic in Thaumanova.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

I agree the likelihood is extremely low. I was just pointing out that the only time this claim will be absolute is when the Guild Wars franchise concludes as there will be no new canonically lore added or revisions made to the story at that point.

They maintained their stance of “Abaddon’s story is done” for roughly 3 years. I doubt they’d break it so easily.

Not that I’d be against it… though that depends on what they do with it. But I seriously doubt it, and the constant “It’s going to be Abaddon!” even when it clearly isn’t is getting as annoying as the no-support “sylvari are dragon minions” claim.

I took those wings as being clothing of the priestesses at the time.

Yeah, it’s the Marionette’s sword – which extends when she does the sword attacks, iirc.

Oh, I know that Glint states the Flameseeker Prophecies were for the Prophecies campaign. My point was that, canonically, Turai mistook those prophecies to be referring to Joko’s undead invasion, and that, without Glint’s confirmation, the events of GW2 could be seen as the Flameseeker Prophecies. The shiverpeaks are coated with blood (Dredge and Sons of Svanir warfare – the latter is also a civil war of sorts); Ascalon suffered a major cataclysm (Dragonbrand); Kryta’s within internal strife (Ministry) and assaulted externally (Centaurs); undead coming from Orr (Risen). All that’s missing is the mursaat, Ascension, and a power to defeat both good and evil (though the last could be argued to be the Pact, with the flame being the metaphorical “fires of war” (against dragon minions) idea).

In the end, my point is that all prophecies are extremely vague and most often metaphorical. The tengu’s prophecy would be included, most likely.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

They did do something during Lost Shores – their siege engineers set up the counterattack against the Ancient Karka there in Lion’s Arch.

I thought that was the Lionguard? Both groups seem to share Fort Marriner (with the Vigil).

And I agree that the Zaishen are playing too much of a “no role” role. I would have expected them to be in the place of the Mist Defenders, scattered throughout WvW as those guards.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Rata Sum has areas with Asura Gates in close proximity to one another?

Not them unless what’s above them and the nearby college roofs are destroyed completely, as the Rata Sum gates are all underneath arches or giant roots. Plus it’d be hard to slant those gates.

See, you’re messing up at the “3-year old” part. Cobiah suspected the kid was three years old. Dane’s actual age is never explicitly told, though given Isaye’s comment he’d be 6-7 (depending on how the “seven years” is rounded to). An odd mistake to make but some people just have a really bad time guessing others’ ages (myself included), or Dane may have just been a slow developer.

Regarding your dots:

1) Like said, the chart doesn’t mean Scarlet tried, just that she considered. And as said, half of it is a nod to the community. Take it all with a grain of salt.

2) Thieves and mesmers are able to turn invisible for an extended period of time. For us players, it is short because of skill balance. But there are various NPCs that are stealthed more or less permanently in the game. Largos invisibility is neither unique – nor tied to mursaat which is not standard invisibility but phasing out of Tyria, the mursaat are basically halfway into the Mists (or something else) when they’re “invisible”.

3) Everyone but sylvari are affected by Zhaitan’s powers – and the powers of any Elder Dragon. However, your connection of the Priestess of Dwayna goes only so far. Originally during development that model was to be used for Risen Largos, but it was at some point later decided to be used for Dwayna’s priestess instead. As such, we see no Risen Largos. However, there is no tie between the largos and the priestess in canon lore. Your implied assumption that the priestesses of Dwayna are largos is outright false, as your implied assumption would place them as largos spies that were invisible amongst the Orrian people but the priestesses of Dwayna would have been public figures.

The rest… not really seeing a theory.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

For example they said they didn’t want to tie it to one single point, yet we have Scarlet Briar being behind nearly everything in the Living Story.

You apparently looked at pepper and got salt out of the statement I made.

Their point is “they don’t want to tie everything to Abaddon” not “they don’t want to have additional large arcs of stories” (which is what Scarlet is – just as Abaddon was, just as the Elder Dragons on a whole are).

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Another example is the fact that if Evon would of won we would be dealing with Abaddon again.

Again, you see one thing and get something else out of it. What’s meant is that they aren’t going to bring him back and they’re not going connect new elements to Abaddon, but this isn’t to say they won’t expand into Abaddon’s past to explain that when it makes for good storytelling. Because in the end, that’s the writers’ proclaimed goal: good storytelling.

Shiren.9532:

It’s funny they would say that and then do almost a year’s worth of stories all tied to Scarlet.

How so? It’s just one story, really, and not even everything from the year (Southsun stuff, SAB stuff, Tequatl, Bazaar) is part of Scarlet.

Plus, Abaddon’s plot was much larger than Scarlet’s. Though in terms of timespan of releases Abaddon’s stuff lasted 1.5 years while Scarlet is lasting 1.25 years, Abaddon had 3 full campaigns while Scarlet just has… 6 plots/~16 updates (Flame and Frost (4 updates), Dragon Bash/Sky Pirates of Tyria (2 updates), Queen’s Jubilee/Clockwork Chaos (2 updates), Twilight Assault (1 update), Tower of Nightmares stuff (2 full updates, 2 partials), and her last four finales (Marionette, Edge of the Mists, and two after).

Besides that, since it isn’t tied to Abaddon it’s still making it wider – at a depth elsewhere.

BrunoBRS.5178:

my claim, as outlandish as you say it is, sure beats “the writers are wrong, i’m right”.

Which is not what I’m saying either.

I’m saying that Scarlet’s line is interpretable as a red herring.

BrunoBRS.5178:

you can’t simply claim “nope, that statement is wrong because it doesn’t fit what i already know”. you of all people should know by now that ANet adapts and changes lore through new exposition. hell, just about everything we knew about magic on tyria has changed since GW2 came out.

But if you note. Scarlet never once says that everything the Inquest was studying as chaos magic was dragon magic. And to say “hey, Scarlet says this so she must be right” discredits over a dozen other NPCs both before and after Scarlet’s line.

To say Scarlet is right here, is to say that Thruln the Lost is right about how the jotun fell or how the Six Gods treated humanity, even though every other source on the matter – both older and newer says otherwise.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Yet everything in the living story is seemingly tied to Scarlet Briar, couldn’t they had multiple individuals trying to cause anarchy and misery?

And everything in Eye of the North and the GW2 personal story, as well as much of the open world stuff from release, is about Elder Dragons.

Your point?

ArenaNet is making their lore “wider” by making it deeper in other places.

Wasn’t my theory so I can’t defend it much. But the nicknames for him – Voice in the Void being one of them – kind of fit with what Scarlet’s hearing. And if that vision brought her into the Mists, then he may be capable of influencing her.

Plus he did this exact same thing, but on a lesser scale, before.

The only place currently in-game these would work is LA, if and only if the pillars of rock the LA gates are on are shifted (which given the destroyed nature of the gates, wouldn’t be unlikely).

So it is either a destroyed LA, with those pillars shifted thus making the angle look “not LA” – or it will be Edge of the Mists or some other places not yet in-game.

So what you’re saying is…

All those chaos rifts…

All those distortions of chaos…

All those chaos beasts….

All those chaos shards…

All those chaotic results of what happens to those who tamper with the chaos shards (turning into animals, growing/shrinking, etc.)…

ALL HUNDRED PLUS REFERENCES TO CHAOS THROUGHOUT THE CONTINENT THAT’S RELATED TO THAUMANOVA

is inaccurate, because one measly little sylvari says so? Genius or not, she isn’t right about everything. And she sure as hell wasn’t saying outright point-blank without exception that everything the Inquest were studying was dragon magic.

And if Scarlet was saying that, and proved to be right, then why would Kiel later say the Inquest were studying both? And for that matter, why would the Infinite Coil Reactor classify chaos magic – which functions similarly to around Thaumanova – differently from dragon energy?

And no, they did not build that whole fractal just for that one line – they built it because they thought they could make an epic experience out of it and the Abaddon Fractal and the Thaumanova one won. If you think that one line by Scarlet is the only thing of importance in the Fractal, I really suggest you pay more attention next time you go through it. It’d be like saying the only thing of importance in the fight against Zhaitan is that he had multiple heads.

No. Everything. EVERY LITTLE BLOODY THING about Thaumanova currently and in fact always has pointed to the Inquest studying at least two things in Thaumanova: chaos magic and dragon energy. Now, what Scarlet corrected/informed was that at Thaumanova, they unintentionally experimented on dragon energy, while intentionally experimented on chaos magic. And the Fractal also tells us of one – possibly two – additional experiments involved (Subject 6 ooze, which appears to be turning an asura into an ooze, and the djinn-like being in the reactor’s core, which is the “possible” one).

…

Like I said, it is outright known that the Inquest studied both chaos magic and dragon magic. Just go about Thaumanova Reactor, Toxal Bog, The Anthill, and Chaos Crystal Cavern. It’s pretty obvious. So Scarlet would be wrong if she meant that everything studied there that was called chaos magic was in fact dragon energy. Whether or not she meant that is up to interpretation – but it is a long known fact that chaos magic was involved. Otherwise every single thing about the Thaumanova explosion except Scarlet in the Fractal itself, even Kiel after her investigations (aka post Fractal), would be wrong.

The Elder Dragons only radiate non-corruptive magic when hibernating (or dead, per Glint’s corpse). When awake, all indications show that they don’t leak magic, but can release it – corruptively.

That was kind of my point. When you go into such nitpickery you can argue multiple ways and be right each time.

As for the chaos magic: well, guess what, Scarlet’s wrong! gasp She couldn’t be right otherwise all mesmers are dragon minions.

It’s possible that something the Inquest was studying that they were calling chaos magic was dragon magic, but chaos magic != dragon magic and they were studying chaos magic there as well. Hence all the chaos rifts and whatnot that’s teleporting creatures from across the continent.

mythil.9416:

To me he comes of as both smug and insecure and I’m supposed to follow this guy? Aren’t I the hero?) So yes your argument does make sense even though I still don’t like the character (personally).

There is nothing smug about Trahearne… Even though he actually has every right to be given how much respect he’s given by the three Orders for his expertise on Orr.

Draconic energies is NOT the same as chaos magic. Otherwise every mesmer out there – and possibly thieves – would be using dragon magic. Unless you go with the argument of “any magic that ever came from dragons is dragon magic” then all magic in the world is dragon magic since it all at one point got eaten and exuded from them. Dragon magic as used by the Inquest is the “straight from the dragons, potentially corruptive magic.”

If you talked to Kiel after the story mode of the fractal (sadly not up on the wiki) she states that the Inquest studied chaos magic THEN dragon magic.

Also: “right on” is short for “right on top of” aka “right over” – you really shouldn’t try to be nitpicky of word usage because in all honesty, it’s very easy to take a single sentence with at least three different meanings.

Volstag.6371:

Anyone think the Arrows are related to her drawing the Elder dragons to LA for a single fight, let them fight each other and then “mari-laser” them down?

I don’t think the Marionette has any long-term purpose actually. If you fail the event and talk to the NPCs immediately after, they say the Marionette blew up.

It’s bait, and the heroes are the fish. The “weapon test” seems to be a red herring. Which leads into Rox’s “culling the herd” theory.

Which makes me think even more that all she’s doing right now is intentionally weakening various groups – Hoelbrak and Iron Legion (Molten Alliance attacks); Lion’s Arch (Mai Trin); Kryta (Tower of Nightmares – “stupid humans, always in my way” I wonder how…); and now adventurers in general. And at the same time, she’s building an army, twisting them in various ways (dredge undergoing the Baelfire ritual of the Flame Legion; Nightmare Court and krait undergoing that toxin appearance).

Makes me think that all she’s been doing – and given the X’s on the map, is going to do next as well – is just to weaken the major players of Tyria.

Stephen.6312:

Hi Etaoin,
You pointed out that there was an entity at the Thaumanova Reactor? Would you or anyone else be able to clarify this for us? Which entity are you referring to? Thanks

The thing that’s just like a Diamond Djinn (aka air element djinn) in Nightfall.

The thing called Thaumanova Anomaly

Kasmeer’s words (I think this is what Stephan’s referring to):

Marjory Delaqua: I don’t like this. What’s Happening?
Kasmeer Meade: Don’t worry. It’s not real. It’s the pollen playing with our minds.
Marjory Delaqua: Okay. But…why are we seeing Aetherblades?
Kasmeer Meade: Scarlet’s signature is all over this. She must be exerting some influence once our defenses are weakened by the toxins.

Edit: Oh, it’s probably this one from The Nightmare Incarnate (above was from first entering the Nightmare Chambers):

Marjory Delaqua: I’m so glad that’s over. They were hallucinations? You’re sure.
Kasmeer Meade: I’m sure. Somebody—I’ll call her Scarlet—was messing with our minds.
Marjory Delaqua: Okay. Then let’s figure out what she’s up up here and put an end to it.

Anyways, I’ll go with Bruno. Just snarkiness.

Mythil, all of your specific arguments have been about the personal story, not Trahearne.

You’re projecting – hating on something when you hate something else.

As a person who is *very *critical of stories and equally so of ArenaNet’s direction of lore lately, I will say this with ease:

The only issue Trahearne himself has is his voice actor. The other issues people blame Trahearne for is an issue of the Personal Story and more importantly how ArenaNet advertised Guild Wars 2. Let’s be honest with ourselves, look at all the advertisements and the manifesto trailer and all the promises for what the game would be. Now look at the game. Do those look like the same thing beyond the title to you? Because they don’t to me.

And I believe it is that which people hate. But they don’t realize it so they blame Trahearne or whatnot.

You’re promised a personal story, a story for you. Where you become the big hero. We get a story where you’re the big hero who acts equal to everyone else, who’s praised as much as everyone else, with very limited choices and personal interaction. And you see the issue as being Trahearn, when it’s the whole of the personal story. And open world. And dungeons.

I love GW’s lore but even I’m honest enough to say that I’ve long since learned never to believe ArenaNet’s promises of what the game will play like in their advertisements. Makes me wonder if the people who make said advertisements even play the game or if they just listen to what the developers are aiming for.

Go talk to the guy outside the east entrance to the city. TALK to him, not listen to his one-liner that he says every time you pass.

Why do people think “hey, I talked to the refugee camp and now I know everything about Thaumanova!” Because honestly, the lore of Thaumanova is spread throughout the entire continent.

And, uh, for the record: Thaumanova was over a ley line, not at. And it was by tampering with two forms of unstable magic one of which alters magic, near a reactor of magic, over an intersection of ley lines, that caused the explosion. If the drill is for reaching a ley line, then simply being over it won’t be enough. And I bet that Thaumanova would have been far more fatal if it was in the ley line (or closer).

mythil.9416:

1) You are pretty much forced into letting him lead as there are no other options
2) Just dumping a character in and everyone saying “Hay that guy he’s so awesome” is not weaving him into the narrative
3) He is very annoying, just mopes around and makes you do all the actual work while he soaks up the glory.

Really there is no reason for him to be in the story at all. Personally I want my character to the hero, the head of everything, the one giving the big speeches and so forth but no. The story writer instead of keeping to the way it should have been (you being the hero and the driving force) instead kept you in the background doing the work because she loves Sylvari so much. It’s just bad storytelling.

1) You’re pretty much forced to go after Zhaitan. There are no other options, like going after Jormag despite the fact that if you’re a norn/Priory who helps out the grawl or Quaggan, you not once fight non-Icebrood dragon minions in your personal story until Claw Island.

Oh, and you’re pretty much forced to be the good guy. And you’re pretty much forced to be mentored by someone from Destiny’s Edge. And you’re pretty much forced to aid the Seraph if you’re human. And you’re pretty much forced to stop Scarlet and not join her. And you’re pretty much forced to be hated by every enemy no matter what. And you’re pretty much forced to aid the Lionguard when Zhaitan attacks. And you’re pretty much forced not to kill Rox Kawaiistone… Bug eye creeper.

That’s an argument against lack of multiple choices, not against Trahearne.

2) Without watching us see the rise to power, anyone in power will be introduced into the narrative as ‘dumping a character in and everyone saying "Hay that guy he’s so awesome"’ Jennah can easily be argued to be the same as this argument. So is every Elder Dragon. So is Forgal. So is Seiran. So is all of Destiny’s Edge (presuming you don’t read Edge of Destiny first, which is how they wrote the game to be like). This isn’t an issue on Trahearne’s character, though they could have introduced him better to non-sylvari.

3) Except that he doesn’t make you do all the work, and he doesn’t soak up all the glory. Stop exaggerating. And while he does mope a good deal, this is part of his character development and not really a bad thing about him – it’s his own personal challenge to overcome within himself, a very common narrative plot. It’s called “conflict against the self” (or “Man versus Self”) – the other two common narratives being “Man versus Man” and “Man versus Nature.”

BrunoBRS.5178:

wait what?

and what about the thaumanova reactor itself, which we went in during the fractured release, and definitely not dug deep underground?

The fractal wasn’t underground because it’s a floating island of reality.

The real reactor is underground. Basement level 1.

Odd. The icon on the forums indicates a dev post. There is no dev post. The dev post is a lie.

Anyways, I don’t hate him. But he was poorly put into non-sylvari storylines. And for sylvari, the “meeting Trahearne again” cinematics being separate mechanically rather than replacing the mentor’s seeing Trahearne is… bleh. Because it goes “You: Trahearne! Good to see you!” (new cinematic) “Mentor: Trahearne! Good to see you! This is my new student.”

He doesn’t really take the spotlight. Everyone – Trahearne included – refers to your decision. You make the plans still. You put Trahearne as Marshal. You chose how to invade Orr. You are the one to take down Zhaitan with Destiny’s Edge – not Trahearne. Him taking the spotlight is an optical allusion. He takes a role of responsibility so that the player can remain not being bound by paperwork, negotiations, and other boring as hell economic crap.

Sure, it can be both. In one very, very specific meaning of the phrase.

It could hint at just one sixth race. It could hint at 20 more. It could hint at more Elder Dragons. It could hint at something unfathomable.

All the line says is “our information is incomplete.” And arguing that because of it there is just one more race out there and nothing else unknown is arguing such a specific possibility that the likelihood is… slim, to say the least.

And besides, as I have said three times now, we have seven races that survived: Karka and Djinn being the two additional. That line could be referring to them.

Unless her plan from the beginning was to attack the four biggest multi-racial organizations in Tyria (the Orders + Lionguard; arguably you can slap on the Arch Exchange (banking system) and Black Lion Trading Post – three in LA, fits).

And all her acts until now was her preparing for such. The thumpers could be just another preparation. Or even a red herring, spreading forces across the continent so she can attack the HQs.

Which isn’t a hint to a sixth race, but that the jotun’s records may be incomplete – as I was stating. And as we now know to be a case, given Zommoros’ little dialogue on the karka (combined with Matthew Medina stating that the karka knew to avoid the Risen – meaning that they’ve interacted with Risen or something very similar before, and I doubt that the DSD’s minions are “something very similar” given the whole undead nature thingamajig). Honestly, aside from djinn and karka having been around during the previous rise, there’s heavy hints of tengu, kodan, and krait also having been around then. And there’s hints of at least one additional Elder Dragon, if not more.

Underdark.3726:

the dots from the others map are not there.

Yes they are.

Underdark.3726:

LA and the orders have no clue what does she wants so they cannot be keeping her from “doing that”.
And you think that ANet would just change the colors of the dots and make it clear to everyone what is going to happen? Don’t think so.

Like X’s are any less ambiguous.

And they’ve been keeping her from doing her plans as best they can. They stopped the Molten Alliance (remember all three Orders had something involved there), they captured Mai Trin, they kicked her out of Divinity’s Reach, they destroyed the airport in Twilight Arbor, and they blew up the Tower of Nightmares. The Orders were involved with half of stopping Scarlet, and Lionguard with half as well.

zamalek.2154:

Check the link Konig. There is dialog at the bottom that hints at a 6th race – once again,
“hints,” anything can be drawn from what Trueclaw says – but it’s at least one cannon account of a sixth race if taken somewhat literally. There is a branch of lore theory (not my own) that indicates that there seems to always be 6 sentient races to counter the dragons.

You should check the link again. I know Trueclaw’s dialogue pretty well even without reading it, and I even humored you and checked. Here’s what I see:

• Jotun, mursaat, forgotten, seer, dwarf. Five against six.
• It’s accepted that there were five sentient races who fought the Elder Dragons the first time and survived.
• I found out that there were five sentient races that fought the Elder Dragons the first time around… and survived to tell about it.

Nothing hints to a sixth race – nothing but the presumption that the jotun records which are being researched are incomplete or false, or rather that they’re just telling a subjective truth (the jotuns only knew of five sentient race survivors). The “Five against six” is five races fighting the six Elder Dragons.

And I know the theory you speak of, from reddit right? The one that claims Scarlet is making six races to survive the ED, working on the false assumption that the Elder Dragons allowed six surviving races to rebuild – it fails because the Elder Dragons didn’t allow anything, and it formed from a misconception on the GW2W’s wordings that could be interpreted to mean the Elder Dragons don’t just destroy the world’s life but creates it, which they don’t by all indication.

I wasn’t saying magic was a substance either…. Well, technically it is, but not like what people tend to think when they think of the word “substance.”

But I disagree with magic being akin to the meridians. It’s not a 2d thing; it does not have infinite depth. The ley lines are called the “lifeblood” of the world. This implies underground – part of the world itself. Like veins in a body.

No, we did not.

Underdark.3726:

The X’s are not pointing to the orders and she will not attack them. They are pointing to the probes. Maps 1 and 2 show all the probes in the world, the third, with X’s those which found what she’s looking for. There is one probe in the water in LA, one south of Priory, one east of Whispers and one north of Vigil’s Keep in Harathi Hinterlands. She will use the drill (image 4) to drill.

Nice theory, but there’s a big flaw.

The dots and the X’s show up at the same time.

You can even see the one in Harathi just north of Vigil Keep above the X at Vigil Keep.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The arrows do not point at the Orders and Lion’s Arch.

They point TOWARDS the Orders and Lion’s Arch. There’s a subtle difference. They seem to point out a strategic movement of some sort.

The arrows generally point to LA/eastern Gendarran. But the arrows are not the same as X’s.

Underdark.3726:

Scarlet does not have any reason to attack the Orders or LA. None. When you destroy the marionette there is a conversation going on between the npcs, and they talk also about the probes. Taimi at that point say: “They are not offensive. Scarlet is looking for something”. In Scarlet’s lair is a drawing of the probes sending waves, like a sonar, underground. The images from the console are all about the probes so the only logical thing is that the X’s are the probes. The arrows are just underlining the X’s, in a matter of speaking. They are coming from points that are far away of playable maps, so nothing can come from there.

Except for the fact that the Orders and Lionguard – the HQs of which are where the X’s are – have been actively trying to stop her.

Plus we have no clue what Scarlet’s grand scheme is. She could have been after Lion’s Arch and the Orders from the get go. I mean, what was the second thing she did? She attacked Lion’s Arch and tried to place a sleeper mole into their government.

And if the theory that the entity is an Elder Dragon (Mordy or other), then the Orders, Lionguard, and the Pact are its greatest enemies and it would want them gone. And by destroying the Orders/Lionguard, you’d destroy the Pact (or at least cripple it greatly).

BrunoBRS.5178:

do we have anything indicating they might be underground?

Technically, no. Which is why it’s just a hypothesis mentioned. A possibility.

But it’d work the same if it was ground-level or even in the sky. You just need to reach it.

BrunoBRS.5178:

and i’m really struggling with the words to describe what i mean, i’m not sure you quite get what i think they are.

I’m pretty sure I do, but I don’t think you understand what I’m saying – in which I’m saying that while you think magic cannot be conducted, it can be. Ley lines are magic – the flow of magic across the planet specifically:

Magic is the lifeblood of Tyria. The entire world is infused with it, and it flows through everything via ley lines that criss-cross the planet.
http://esprits-dorr.fr/node/261

And magic can be conducted via water, metals, etc. (see the Mysterious Refined Ore in Silex Castrum and many of the various communing skill challenges, especially those at waterfalls/springs/etc.) Spellcasters draw in magic from their surroundings as much as from within themselves (see: Sea of Sorrows with the elementalist; or the other two novels as well, I believe).

Ley lines are basically these lines of super-concentrated magic by all appearances. And sometimes they criss cross. If you can manipulate the magic in the air/soil/water away from the ley lines, then you can at the ley lines (though doing such may be dangerous).

BrunoBRS.5178:

Imagine Tyria is soaked in a fluid. The Mists, to be precise. It’s on everything, it’s everywhere, but this fluid has a special property: you can’t see or feel it. not from within tyria itself at least (like you can’t see oxygen and ozone up close, but they make the sky blue). in fact, merely interacting with it requires some talent. the ley lines would be streams within this fluid, sections where it’s denser and its effects more proeminent, but the properties remain.

Yes, I know what you mean. And I’m saying the same thing.

But it isn’t some 4th dimension. It’s there in the real world, just invisible and scentless (like a gas that’s colorless and odorless!), and if you know what to look for you can spot it and interact with it. Ley lines would be no different. You’re saying what I have been, but apparently you haven’t been understanding me while you think I’m not understanding you – all because you seem to think that you cannot reach where these ley lines are but…

BrunoBRS.5178:

but the bottom line is, i’m not saying they can’t be interacted with, i’m saying that the drill would do scarlet no good if she wanted to play with ley lines.

All she needs the drill for would be to get to where the ley line is located. The ley lines are in fixed locations given that they criss-cross over Thaumanova for an extended period of time. They are in specific locations. The hypothesis I mentioned was merely Scarlet needing the drill to reach that specific location where a ley line (or criss cross of them) is at. Then after she reached that specific location, she could tamper with the condensed magic – no different than how she’d tamper with magic anywhere else, but because it’s a ley line – invisible to the naked eye (or so we’re currently led to believe) – it’d react differently.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Erukk.1408:

I’m surprised no one brought it up yet, but Scarlet might be in the Mists for the same possibly reasons that the Sons of Svanir are. Obviously, the Elder Dragons (or at least Jormag) are interested in the Mists, or at least something in it.

This is of course still using the Entity=Mordremoth theory.

…what? where?

i’m trying to remember all the enemy factions on the mists, and sons of svanir is not one i recall on any maps, from sPvP to WvW to EotM.

Personal Story, norn, “Defend the Mists” storyline.

Plot summary: the Sons of Svanir kidnapped a havroun and manipulated his ability to enter the Mists so that they could do so themselves. This is reflected in The Frozen Maw, with portals to the Mists forming during one of the events.

Jaken.6801:

I can understand the halucinogenic to some degree, but the holographics are annoying.
Even if it is magitech, they need to have a core or projector device and they function even if that thing is destroyed.
[…]
Apearently Scarlet is able to advance “simple” asura technology to a much higher level then we thought…

It wasn’t Scarlet. It was the Order of Whispers, specifically Zott for Ellie, who used the technology for the Pact.

And Lion’s Arch bought/borrowed/something this technology for all those holographic dragon minion projectors. These projectors were then stolen by the Aetherblades. And thus Scarlet reverse engineered/altered these hundreds of projectors that can create interactive holograms and made them feature herself because she’s an egoist.

Don’t you people pay attention? It’s all there! :P

Jaken.6801:

Sure, but the six are gone mostly from “our” plane. Who tells us that Grenth does not do his job in the Underworld and has Dhuum in check.
I mean, what else should he do? It is his domain and right now he is not going out for party every winter like he used to 250 years ago.

Priestess Rhie says that the gods aren’t even in the Mists. And 250 years ago, it was his avatar, not himself, that showed up for Wintersday. Same with Dwayna.

kylwilson.9137:

We did protect said child all those years ago somewhere that ~seemed~ to be underground, as it was accessed via. the Central Transfer Chamber. Dwarves are also hypothesised to be underground still fighting the Destroyers. This loosely ties the Thumpers into the equation.

The asura gate we went through to reach the little challenge mission to protect the baby was somehow connected to the Crystal Desert. The idea being that the baby was in a similar place to Glint’s own sanctuary – if not within the sanctuary itself.

And keep in mind that Glint’s sanctuary isn’t in a single grain of sand – that’s a lie to fool those seeking Glint, to get the illusion of hiding her sanctuary to work. Destroyers wouldn’t know such a lie and would be able to go straight to the sanctuary.

kylwilson.9137:

And then it’s worth considering if the child was ‘conceived’ at a point before or after Glint’s release from Kralkatorrik, as if it was before (we have no knowledge of incubation periods) it is entirely likely that it’s nature is not as benign as we were lead to believe in Eye of the North, which would be a lovely twist and brings up a nature vs. nurture discussion which has already been touched on in terms of Scarlet’s backstory anyway.

Nothing really says it’s a traditional baby – in fact, all knowledge on dragon minions would require it to not be. Given that dragon champions can make minions, that dragon minions cannot give birth to new life (they must be corrupted while pregnant), given the Crystal Guardians/Spiders, and the eggs being transparent and crystalline, it’s likely that the baby is akin to those Crystal Guardians/Spiders which work alongside Glint and the forgotten there.

Not to mention that the baby didn’t attack us or the dwarves, which it would have if it was influenced by Kralkatorrik.