Minor correction: the druids didn’t disappear, they simply became spirits/treants to become closer with nature. Also, the elevated portions of the Maguuma remained arid even in the presence of magic. It was the lower elevations with high concentrations of water that had so much vegetation. I think there has to be something more at work here.
I am aware. Them becoming spirits IS their act of disappearing, in fact. If you played Prophecies and paid attention to outposts and side-quests, you’d likely know this.
And I mentioned the elevation and explained it in the theory – only areas around the healing water had vegetation, and there was no water in the higher elevation areas, which were arid.
One final thing: In my original post, I didn’t mean to make it sound like an ED was consuming the jungle, but rather that it was consuming the water for its magical properties which would lead to the death of plant life. I (perhaps wrongly) assumed that consumption would take precedence over corruption.
The Elder Dragons seem to do both at the same time. They consume, then they exude as corruption. Though they “eat” magic, it isn’t traditional eating – and I view it more like breathing. Breath magic (oxygen) in, breath corruption (CO2) out. Would give a new light to starving the Elder Dragons by removing magic.. it’s more of depriving them of air to breath, making them lose consciousness.
Though that’s just interpretation.
Stupid question.. but what magic did the druids use? Preservation magic? Like monks? I mean, there is no Melandru-aligned Blood Stone.. yet..
The bloodstones aren’t aligned to the gods. They’re aligned all to themselves. Dwayna is not Preservation, Balthazar is not Destruction, etc.
The druids were said to have been followers of Melandru, so their magic was likely akin to rangers’ modern magic. Chances are that they would have use Destruction magic – may seem odd, but Elementalists were confirmed to use Destruction magic so Destruction seems to be nature-tied.
Healing property is unnecessary for the thriving of flora when the area has a large enough underground water table to sustain it.
Not necessarily. There’s no indication on the size, and how would you explain the healing properties of the water?
If even those regions where the “vegetation was so dense that the jungle floor had never (another indication that the Maguuma was there since time immemorial) been touched by the sun’s light” dried out, the most logical explanation is that something destroyed/drained/evaporated the water table.
“Never” could just mean “since it was formed.”
The arrows to me hint that she’s narrowed down her search, given this new information. Whatever she’s looking for is in the vicinity of northern Bloodtide, Lion’s Arch, and/or eastern Gendarran Fields.
The probes have been there since the Fractured! update, and ArenaNet seems bent on having the LW and our timeline go on at the same rates. So that means she’s been probing for roughly 2 months now.
So, what tells you that the dragons minions don’t wanna do what they do? The nightmare court are 100% obedient to the nightmare and CANNOT return. here we see how much power the dream can have over a Sylvari. They laugh you in the face and say, “Yay, my friend, lets kill some villagers. Oh, you don’t wanna, well die so..”
That’s the thing. They don’t want to not do what they do (serve the dragon). I suggest reading Edge of Destiny, as it delves into the thoughts of Branded – and how their thought processes fully change, completely, upon the instant of being corrupted. They go from “I got to get away from that thing! (Kralkatorrik)” to “I must follow and serve the dragon with all our might!” Their entire thought process is rewritten upon corruption. They may have the body and sometimes the soul of their former selves, but their mental process is so foreign you cannot call them the same individual. That is how they don’t have free will – they cannot choose to not serve the dragon. That is an enforced mentality on them.
And that’s why the theory that the Nightmare is Mordremoth’s corruption stands – the Nightmare functions akin to dragon corruption, with the exception of physical twisting to the sylvari bodies.
A sylvaris consciousness is created inside an independent system, there our alarm should already go off.
But they lack anything mental of a dragon minion.
Not always. Some Risen have chosen to serve Zhaitan willingly, and thus retain free will
Thats all I wanted to say, the possibility inside this universe, that corruption in a sense of elemental dragon energy doesn’t exclude free will. And that the possibility of the Pale tree and the sylvari being tied to the sixth dragon is still thinkable.
Except that Malafide is wrong here. Malafide is mistaking the notion of higher minions having more self-thought than lower minions. Zhaitan has no minions who were serving willingly – only Jormag allows that. All other Elder Dragons have slaves as minions.
Higher minions have self-thought, thus are not mindless, but still lack free will. They cannot escape it. That’s what is so unique and special about the Forgotten ritual that Glint was forced under – it gave her free will.
If you mean that they keep some kind of slave-attitude I can see, what you mean, but they are still free at that moment to do what they decide themselves. If they didn’t decide themselves, they would just have turned off like robots.
When the Great Destroyer was killed, the destroyers went rampant. They were literally mindless killing machines. The Great Destroyer was their guide and it was gone. They didn’t think, they were not free, they did not decide. They acted upon their created purpose like a machine would – kill, kill, and kill some more.
We can see that slow corruption of the soul with the sons of Svanir. (All corrupted to a certain point and still able to make decisions) It starts with temptations and leads up to almost remote control. I still decide. but if that Me ist still Me is another question.
Jormag is unique among the Elder Dragons. He’s the only one who takes willing converts – and seemingly prefers that. But the Sons of Svanir are not corrupted, they do eventually become such but most still become the mindless low minions. Some become higher minions – thus retain their sense of self and their self thought but they lose their free will (harder to recognize because they, from the beginning, openly served the dragon).
I don’t say, this is, what happens, but its possible and it leaves the Sylvari-Mordremoth question open and it would also explain, with what kind of power the Sylvari soul is shaped.
Find me any sylvari that praises a dragon, and I shall consider your opinion.
Until then, you cannot say that the sylvari could be dragon minions. Dragon minions hold no free will and cannot break free of their dragon of their own will – even Glint needed to be given a will back.
We don’t know, what its like to be a dragon minion.
Hail dragon! Feed the dragon! For the dragon! You will be consumed by the dragon! The dragon will rule all! The dragon empowers me!
^ Typical Risen, Branded (novel only), and Icebrood dialogue. Just do any number of events in Orr if you don’t believe me, they’re all praise their respective dragon – fanatically so. Exchange “the dragon” with Zhaitan/Jormag/Kralkatorrik as you see fit.
Sylvari never mention a dragon in good view.
Would you call a nightmare court free? I would.
I wouldn’t. They’re a slave to spreading the Nightmare. How they do it differs, how they treat it in relation to their self differs – just like dragon minions honestly – but they all seek to spread Nightmare one way or another, even those who feared it before become twisted in mind to desire spreading Nightmare.
Look at the risen. How can they taunt you and bring their one-liners if they are mindless forces?
Lacking free will != mindless (side note: the lowest of dragon minions do seem to be mindless – they are zergers with a few one-liners that require the brain mentality of a 2 year old, but when those which control them (dragon champions) die they all flee instinctively; respectively, the stronger the minion t)
To be mindless is to not think.
To lack free will is to not make decisions for yourself.
The more accurate way of describing a dragon minion is not lack of free will but the enfocement of fanaticism upon their will. As said, lower minions (e.g., Risen Thralls and Brutes) will have far less intelligence and mind power compared to the stronger minions (e.g., lieutenants and champions) who will have a view of self but not of “free will” – in that, again, they are forced into fanaticism. They think for themselves, they do for themselves, but they undeniably serve their dragon without question.
A fun video I think exemplifies how dragon minions are shown to us as: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2Tp8JopdIc
This video focuses on a choice during Mass Effect 2 with Legion’s loyalty mission where you can chose to destroy or rewrite the hostile faction of a robotic race (the Geth). As I see it, dragon corruption is akin to the rewriting option – to fully overwrite one’s views of right and wrong. To dragon minions, anything that isn’t for their dragon, is innately wrong – it would be like the cruelest of actions that you yourself would be disgusted with the thought of doing.
THAT is how they lack free will. And THAT is how we know the sylvari are not dragon minions – because they don’t serve a dragon with such vehemency.
This has been a huge argument in the forums and I just leave it saying that we don’t know the answer and that its a cool theory.
But the thing is: we do – the sylvari act and function nothing like dragon minions. And the theory has ZERO support. It did at one point, but that support has since been debunked and the “theory” stands in people’s views when it really doesn’t.
Do you seriously think that (outside of the bloody prince thing) anyone is stupid/bored/crazy enough to go dive into old LA? The place from which mere months ago karka jumped out, which was the connection point to the mists multiple times (again not counting bp candy bags right now even if it does explain how they got there) and the ruins of a pirate town under a pirate town probably meaning that every little piece of valuables are gone?
Uh… the karka invasion was over a year ago now even in-game. And I don’t know what you mean by the connection point to the Mists given how the Mists’ connection is in Fort Marriner.
Well it is underwater. There’s not that many guards underwater. Still, it seems odd that no one would notice it at some point, and take it down. Ok, so they are shielded. But surely that doesn’t make them completely invulnerable?
It does if people can’t figure out how to take down the shield. After all, we’re dealing with an insane genius – emphasis on the insane, means logical thinking may not work on how to take down the shield. Who knows, maybe the way to take it down is to dance like a chicken in front of it – or more seriously, to kill her minions near it, but there are no minions in LA!
It honestly wouldn’t be surprising if it was tied to Scarlet.
We were told, sometime long ago, that the plans for the Living World (not story but the whole “frequent updates to progress the world”) was intended from a short time before launch (I’d guess a couple months maybe – 3 or 4 perhaps). If they were beginning their Scarlet ideas then, they could have tried to implement hints of her into the game… but ran out of time. IIRC, they even ran short on time with the Zhaitan fight thus resulting in the poor quality we got. (So much for “when it’s done” right?).
Shame it didn’t get into the game regardless. If they did have it in, then she would have felt less forced. And would have made her alliances more sensible – she’d be after the certain elements from the get go, perhaps. But as said, not in-game, not canon, may not be Scarlet.
So wait, dragons aren’t huge and magical? They don’t say it’s not physical, just that it’s huge and magical. Doesn’t “huge” imply physical anyway? She’s searching for something that’s physically large and also magical.
Far as I’m concerned this is another nail in the coffin. She’s looking for a dragon.
Hmm, yeah, I misread it saying “it’s not designed to look for something physical” as “it’s designed to look for something not physical”. My bad.
But it isn’t a nail in the coffin. There’s a LOT of huge magical things out there, even more when we think of physical magical things. Pale Tree, ley lines, nature spirits, magical hotspots, Bloodstones.
The issue with looking for an Elder Dragon is that Elder Dragons move about. She’s triangulating via three new probes over an extended period of time, implying a stationary target. Most likely this means:
Rytlock can be talked to at each probe, he has a few dialogue options, but sadly I do not remember them all. You can ask him several questions about the chief engineer Junia Twistgear. He indicates that she is knowledgeable about Scarlet’s technology. During dialogue that i don’t have screens from Junia also expresses some admiration for Scarlet and her technology, but not in a creepy way like Taimi. I got the impression that Junia is a character that will be relevant at a later occasion.
PLEASE try to screenshot and post them all! I would LOVE to see them. Sadly, he may disappear in a few hours!
But the Bloodstones seems unlikely. All she’d need to do is open a history book to find out where those are. You don’t need to triangulate all over Tyria to find the location of a Bloodstone. It’s still possible that she’s zeroing in on Primordus and his movements.
The three probes that are near the wurm are new, so she’s managed to lower the area to around LA (as there’s also a new one in LA) – are there any other new ones, say, north and east of LA in Gendarrans and Lornar’s? Or maybe that’s the purpose of the X’s and arrows – not targetting the Orders HQs and LA but noting pre-existing probes to be realligned to help properly triangulate whatever she’s looking for.
And I disagree. In GW1, we only knew of three Bloodstones – and as far as we know, unless the Shining Blade was public with their information, knowledge of such could have been sealed and at the best only the Bloodstone Fen one was known at large.
I disagree with Primordus – he’s been moving about. Whatever she’s looking for seems to be stationary since she’s able to triangulate its location after a long period of time.
Scarlet: “Oh Bloodstones, Ive sacrificed many lives on my journey to reach all six of you (Mad giggle) and put you back together and confront you. What do you have to say?!”
[…]
Growth
Uh… there is no Growth bloodstone. There’s only FIVE bloodstones.
If we know where the Bloodstones roughly are (and we do), then you can be sure that the Priory has books on it as well.
Not necessarily. Again, we have no clue how the Shining Blade treated knowledge of the things that they (and by extension, us players) knew but the population at large did not.
White Mantle would know. Shining Blade would know. But they may have kept the knowledge from everyone else. And there’s still two unknown Bloodstone locations.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Hey, I was reading Scarlet’s journal again. She writes,
“Tonight, I saw it. I stared into the abyss, and it stared back at me. So much power. I don’t know what’s real and what isn’t anymore.”
This is similar to the words of Friedrich Nietzsche:
“He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.”Nietzsche promoted an idea he coined the “Apollonian/Dionysian dichotomy”. Could Ceara be wrestling with herself? Ceara may represent Dream, whereas Scarlet represents NIghtmare? I really don’t know, although I think that maybe this dichotomy served as the inspiration for the in-game concepts Dream and Nightmare.
During story mode of Twilight Arbor, the same analogue is used for Faolain, when she first saw the Nightmare, I believe. The idea used was that Caithe saw and looked away, but Faolain continued looking and it consumed her. Don’t recall exact wordings and it’s not on the wiki sadly… And it may have been Edge of Destiny, in fact.
BTW, the inspiration is already stated long ago to have been the Seelie and Unseelie Court of Scottish folklore. Though that very commonly used line may have been the inspiration between these two bits, the line (stare long enough into the abyss and it stares back into you) is used almost everywhere.
Unless the Thorn Vine – which may not be Scarlet herself – is male. :P
Clearly, the Thorn Vine is another seed of the cave, and the vine Scarlet saw is just that tree’s version of the Pale Tree’s Circle.
Note: I am only half-joking. I think that we’ve actually already seen a sibling of the Pale Tree via the Tower of Nightmares, seeing how it was born from a seed and grew incredibly large and, most importantly, spawned the Toxic Hybrid from a pod. It would not be surprising if the secret of Caithe she found out is the cave – note that Caithe and Faolain were travelers, and Caithe continued traveling after Faolain turned to Nightmare (and even after Destiny’s Edge), it would thus be not unlikely for her to have discovered the cave but kept it secret because, well, if it’s known then the Nightmare Court could go after it like she fears them going after Malyck’s tree (which may also be the secret which could have led Scarlet to the cave).
I think that the Thorn Vine is another “pale tree” but is a different color – red – and grew differently because, unlike the Pale Tree, it was not sheltered. It could be Malyck’s tree, or it could be a different one. Maybe the “entity” is this other tree – since the Pale Tree talks about “mysteries of the world” and even the origins of the tree, it makes sense – and Scarlet becoming one with the vine in the vision is what allowed the Thorn Vine to enter her mind.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
It was also maintained, keep in mind, by the White Mantle and the mursaat (or whomever carved those runes). And it – and the others – were objects of dispute during the Guild Wars at one point or another.
@Aaron: Wouldn’t grow on top of it – but they grew under it it should be noted (the Bloodstone is literally forming a cliff, the end held up by giant vines if memory serves me right – no good image on GWW though). But the theory is that the bloodstone’s magic seeped into the water, and from the healing water grew the plants. The fact that they didn’t grow directly on top of the Bloodstone – which wouldn’t be soil thus wouldn’t be that viable for plantlife in the first place even if not magical – doesn’t affect the theory at all.
@Kenneh: I find the theory that Mordremoth’s the cause of the Maguuma drying up to be seriously odd. Mordremoth is – by all indication – the Elder Dragon of Vegetation. He should be making (hostile/poisonous) plants, not destroying them. Presuming that the Jungle Dragon is indeed Zone Green related, what with the constant poison and the husks/nightmare hounds within CoE. His minions would thus be plants, his corruption spawning poisonous pants.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
I do recall an actual mention of them starving, actually. May not be on the wiki, or it may simply be elsewhere.
What Anet should do:
Provide a list of “look for something new in these areas at these rough timeframes” on like, the third to last day of the update.
I personally don’t think the ancient three-headed Great Jungle Wurm is tied to Mordremoth. Possible, but not entirely likely, IMO.
Welp, that’s why I’ve never seen Logan. I have yet to join a successful Marionette run (yay kittenty laptop only allowing me in low zerg places without burning up).
(yay more non-Scarlet threads!)
Over the past 250 years, the Maguuma Jungle had since been divided into three sub-regions: Tarnished Coast (previously existed), Magus Falls, and the Maguuma Wastes.
The Maguuma Wastes is an interesting aspect among these, for it is called such because the jungle is drying up and become a bit of a wasteland. This is one of the causes of the Harathi (known simply as “Maguuma centaurs” in GW1) joining in the Centaur War effort (alongside, y’know, being forced into joining by the Modniir). I would like to take this time to observe and theorize on the drying nature of the Maguuma Jungle’s northern side.
It is presently in-universe theory (mentioned via an interview a while back, not seen in-game) that the drying is caused by an Elder Dragon. I believe this to be a red herring. And I say this out of three facts:
From these three points, I create my theory.
Firstly, the healing waters is gone, as pointed, to the best we can tell. In western Brisban we see the edge of the Maguuma Wastes – and in the canyons there, named The Gallowfields – are without water. However, this is not a strong argument alone – a single point is an oddity, two a coincidence: three make a trend. But if we go south, into Toxal Bog, Aurora’s Remains, and The Shattered Henge, we have water in what was in GW1, the Maguuma Jungle and the water in GW1 in these areas were with healing properties… but here we have no such thing. This shows that the healing waters have either dried up, lost their effect, or the effect has simply diminished to not reaching that far.
Secondly, the Bloodstone. After the Exodus, there were five Bloodstones. One of which was for Preservation magic – which seems most likely to be healing, or otherwise the field of the monk profession. With the Bloodstone weakening, and the healing waters at the very least receding in effect, the two may be linked together. The water was previously used to believe that the Bloodstone Fen bloodstone was in fact the Preservation bloodstone. This may be further proof.
Thirdly, a return to the first point above – the aridness. Only around the healing waters did vegetation grow. Far from it, the land was arid.
Finally, unlike other locations (be it Blazeridge Mountains, Shiverpeak Mountains, Orr, Crystal Desert/Sea, or even the Tarnished Coast), the Maguuma Jungle has a severe lack of ancient mentions. The oldest possible mention comes from the History of Tyria referring to their arrival on the land (205 BE and following years): “We hunted animals for sport, chased the druids from the jungle, and took up residence in lands that did not belong to us.” However, “the jungle” could refer to many things, and the druids were originally Krytans who left for the Maguuma (hinting that the druids were chased from Kryta into the Maguuma) – so perhaps Kryta was more forested than we have known… But that’s besides the point.
Add these together, this is my conclusion:
The Maguuma Jungle was originally an arid location (at least around where the Wastes are). The Bloodstone’s magic seeped into the water, enchanting it, and helped plantlife grow – thus it became the Maguuma Jungle. This spread with the aid of the druids, who were chased out of their original jungle (Kryta? Woodland Cascades? Orr? Was said to have become verdant thanks to Melandru) into the Maguuma – then arid.
Thus the “Maguuma Wastes” is nothing more than the land reverting to its original form, with no more magic from the druids (whom mostly disappeared as early as a century before GW1) or the Bloodstone to feed it.
Others’ thoughts?
Not something physical. So she’s not searching for an Elder Dragon…
Or perhaps she is. Edge of Destiny novel has Glint describing Kralkatorrik as “more magical than physical” after all.
Or she’s searching for ley lines – them crisscrossing the globe would make them “huge”. And they wouldn’t be physical.
Good catch. I kind of wish ArenaNet made these things more obvious.
I wonder if Logan’s seen doing anything new, given that he was also in the LA instance like Rytlock and the biconics.
Don’t forget swim in from the sea (krait) – and Lion’s Arch is a port city.
I’m surprised it wasn’t attacked by krait yet, honestly.
“that map” kind of implied the texture since it was the texture that you were responding to. And my eyes looked over that final sentence it seems.
i was always of the impression that the elder races defeated the dragons, rather than wait for them to finish their party. otherwise, the dragons would have eventually reached the bloodstone, and who knows what would have happened then.
Unless the Bloodstone was hidden well enough and/or kept being moved about.
But the lore about the elder races’ survival is that they were hidden away by Glint.
“The Forgotten discovered a great spell that granted Glint a will free from control by the Elder Dragon. She then concealed many of the elder races from the dragon.”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warden_Illyra
Combine that with Glint’s line about the Elder Dragons consuming all they could until they starved into hibernation (I’m not sure if that’s the exact lines, don’t have the novel on me), it’s pretty obvious they were not defeated.
if she hid the bloodstone, then how were the dragons attracted by it? they wouldn’t be able to see or smell or sense the bloodstone in any way (or else it wouldn’t be hidden well enough to protect the elder races)
Just because it is hidden doesn’t mean it cannot be sensed.
It just means they could not pin point its exact location. Maybe they felt that there was magic – some kind of magic – near or in Tyria and was searching for it.
Honestly, though. I’m betting on “it kept moving” – I doubt that Kralkatorrik would have let Glint slide for her “betrayal” during the previous dragon rise if the first thing he did upon waking up was hunting her down.
if she hid the bloodstone, then how were the dragons attracted by it? they wouldn’t be able to see or smell or sense the bloodstone in any way (or else it wouldn’t be hidden well enough to protect the elder races)
You just answered your own question.
i don’t see how? if she sought to protect the elder races from the dragons, she wouldn’t have put them with the one thing the dragons want the most, at least not without making sure it’s untraceable and impossible to find. but if that was the case, then the dragons wouldn’t have converged to tyria… so… what exactly did i answer there?
I think what Thalador was trying to say is that it wasn’t “hidden well enough” but it was still hidden. Hence, you answered your own question: it was hidden, but it was traceable to some degree – enough for them to head to Tyria, but not enough for them to locate it.
while the bloodstone argument is a good one as to why they’re all converging to tyria, it is not the way the dragons were defeated, at least to the best of my knowledge. starvation is what awakens them, they go back to sleep when they’re full. so your reasoning there is backwards.
It’s point blank stated that the Elder Dragons were starved during Arah explorable – that’s the whole lore behind the Bloodstone and Glint hiding the races.
It’s also point blank stated in Edge of Destiny (by Eir on the full Destiny’s Edge’s way to the Dragonspawn) that Drakkar (though unnamed in the book) used the Sons of Svanir to empower Jormag with their magic to help him rise faster.
I don’t know where you get that starving awakens the Elder Dragons. It’s not the first time – I recall before seeing someone mention that the Great Destroyer was siphoning magic from Primordus to make him rise, but I don’t recall this being mentioned and said person wasn’t able to provide a source.
god-eating dragon
The Elder Dragons haven’t eaten any gods. It’s fully unknown whether or not they’d even be able to best the gods even one on one.
i was always of the impression that the elder races defeated the dragons, rather than wait for them to finish their party. otherwise, the dragons would have eventually reached the bloodstone, and who knows what would have happened then.
Unless the Bloodstone was hidden well enough and/or kept being moved about.
But the lore about the elder races’ survival is that they were hidden away by Glint.
“The Forgotten discovered a great spell that granted Glint a will free from control by the Elder Dragon. She then concealed many of the elder races from the dragon.”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warden_Illyra
if she hid the bloodstone, then how were the dragons attracted by it? they wouldn’t be able to see or smell or sense the bloodstone in any way (or else it wouldn’t be hidden well enough to protect the elder races)
Just because it is hidden doesn’t mean it cannot be sensed.
It just means they could not pin point its exact location. Maybe they felt that there was magic – some kind of magic – near or in Tyria and was searching for it.
Honestly, though. I’m betting on “it kept moving” – I doubt that Kralkatorrik would have let Glint slide for her “betrayal” during the previous dragon rise if the first thing he did upon waking up was hunting her down.
The most obvious problem I can see with it are the mentions of there being specifically six Elder Dragons, for example by Scholar Trueclaw. I think this could be explained by assuming that, like in modern times, the presence of the Elder Dragons isolated the continent of Tyria from the rest of the world, meaning that news of other Elder Dragons would never have reached Tyria.
Actually, the issue is similar but different. Trueclaw could be written off as “incomplete records of just the previous rise.” But there’s records of multiple cycles of the Elder Dragons:
->Have you checked ancient creation myths?
As a matter of fact, I’m pursuing that line of inquiry now. In jotun stela writings, we’ve found references to a sextet of “swallowers” who are said to have consumed the world several times over.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scholar_Caterin
Multiple rises, but only six mentioned. Creates a much stronger case for “no more than six.”
However, to counter this argument: Kuunavang. She has, on two occasions at least, been put on par to Glint – both before and after (one each) the reveal of Glint’s champion-of-Kralkatorrik status. She wouldn’t really have an elemental tie to any known Elder Dragon, implying a seventh. Common theory places said seventh to being sky/air/star related.
On a less-related note, do we know anything about the Elder Dragons’ relationships to other worlds, and the Mists? I know they are supposed to be something integral to Tyria, but Jormag has been seen using portals to the Mists to summon Icebrood, and the Nornbear also had the power to flee into a “Spirit World” that probably refers to the Mists. And if the theory of Scarlet’s energy probes looking for ley lines is correct, then magic runs through the Mists just as much as it runs through Tyria, and would provide a limitless source of power for the Elder Dragons.
Thus far, the Mists seem immune to the Elder Dragons – perhaps immune is the wrong word, but perhaps not. The Cathedral of Silence is said to be “steeped heavy in the Mists” (or some such wording), and also stated to be the least corrupted of all of Orr. Jormag, for all we know, only has access to the Mists because of the norn he corrupted (arguably could be the same for Zhaitan pulling souls from the Mists – that his minions do it, not himself).
For starters the DSD would have problems with the Jade Sea
All evidence points to the DSD being in the deepest part of the Unending Ocean – or at least awakening there. The Jade Sea is not where the DSD is.
for the record, that “world map” is the texture used on the order of whispers map, and we’ve had dev confirmation that it is not an accurate representation of the world.
As stated in another thread:
What was confirmed is that the in-game globe is not an accurate representation. However, though the globe uses this texture, they do not line up. The globe seems to only show a small portion of the texture, with it wrapped around a few times over. Cantha, for example in the globe, is directly linked to another continent where it shouldn’t be (via Shing Jea).
The accuracy of the texture is unknown. Likely more accurate than the globe.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
It’s true that in the past, Elder Dragon activity has not just been limited to Tyria, for example when the Great Destroyer first awoke there were Destroyers in Elona and as far south as Cantha. I’ve not heard anything about artefacts of Jormag in Cantha, but I’d be interested to hear about that.
Clarification:
There are no known artifacts of Jormag in Cantha – if you’re refering to my mention of dwarven relics in Cantha, I refer to this:
Relics of a mysterious race, possibly an offshoot of the Deldrimor dwarves, have been uncovered in this productive jade mine. Though not as large or strategically vital as the enormous Jade Quarry, the Aurios Mines are of great importance to historians and scholars.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Aurios_Mines_%28outpost%29
I disagree that Zhaitan’s influence wouldn’t have been in continental Tyria, since he is present in the dwarven legends, the karka knew to avoid Orr because it was the domain of an Elder Dragon, and he must have spent some time in Orr at some point because that’s where he went to sleep! I don’t know how you square this up with the fact that Glint was freed from control there (although I do remember something saying that it was the gods who bought all these artefacts to Orr, so maybe the Altar of Glaust was originally somewhere else?).
Firstly, on the Altar of Glaust being moved: that’s a REALLY huge building, built in full in the design of Arah and Orr. Furthermore:
Warden Illyra: The spell requires a location near here. We need to find a likely place to replicate the experiment.
I wouldn’t call a moved artifact a “location”
Warden Illyra: This is the altar. It was here, before the human gods came, that Glint was freed of the Elder Dragons.
She says “it was here” – again, you would not say this for a movable chunk of stone. (Rather you’d say “it was on here”).
Secondly, while I forgot about the mention of Zhaitan in dwarven legends – with the hints that they were spread elsewhere, it’s not too unlikely. And yes, Zhaitan did fall asleep there. I was not denying that he was never there, but rather that he showed up there at the end of the reign – after the Bloodstone was created. That’s most likely, IMO. Otherwise, the Forgotten would be freeing Glaust/Glint in the middle of his domain, which just seems unlikely.
The karka knowing him is actually further evidence, imo, to Zhaitan having been elsewhere. The statement of Zomorros implies the karka went to the shores of Elona last rising, given that is the native land of the djinn. Mind you, he mentions that the continents looked different then as well, so it’s possible that the world didn’t look anything like we do today (I find this doubtful unless the Six Gods did some major terraforming – 11,000 years is not enough for major tectonic plate movements) thus it’d be hard to say what was on continental Tyria and what wasn’t. Either way, this knowledge hints to me that Zhaitan primarily reigned in Elona during the previous rise.
he Elder Dragons have been made out to be some primordial force integral to the smooth operation of the world (so what happens when we kill one, btw?)
Technically, they haven’t. We don’t know what happens when magic rises too much, or if it would even move once the Elder Dragons are all gone. They are the cause of the magic’s rise and fall. Though Angel said that they balance the world’s magic, nothing about them hints that this is anything beyond animals adapting to their ecosystem and keeping it in balance.
- There is something special about Tyria, which makes the Dragons centre their attacks there. Sure, it’s possible, but we have nothing so far to suggest it, so like the first answer above, it doesn’t seem likely.
Actually, we do have something to suggest it, as I mentioned in the post you snipped-quoted me: the Bloodstone.
This could also explain why the DSD is not interested in Tyria – it has the krait obelisks, which are said to be akin to the Bloodstone.
Nah, Evon’s just gone straight to Scarlet. He’s buying his way out of her mayhem, by giving her an easier pass to attack LA.
Time to gut the pouting turn coat and get free Black Lion taxes! That or the gemstore becomes Consortium owned….
ArenaNet’s publicizing is completely different than the final product, though. So… yeah.
I know that I’m a digger, but what do you think about ending of AC story?
" King Adelbern: “You’ve defeated me, but what’ve you gained? Much deadlier things stir beneath us. They’ll consume you all!” "
Refers to Gravelings. Which may be a special breed of skelk given the models.
Well, we have learned that that map may be inaccurate- a recent dev Q&A revealed that the globe it’s based off of only portrays the parts of the world that the Order of Whispers has knowledge of, and furthermore fills in the blanks with closeups of various areas they’re particularly interested in. I don’t know enough about how that texture was rendered into that square map to say what that means for it.
Correction:
The in-game globe is incorrect. This texture and the in-game globe actually do not line up at all. The texture is wrapped around the globe a couple times over.
We really haven’t the foggiest. From an out-of-game perspective, the devs want to keep the rest of Tyria a perfectly blank slate so as to not restrict future devs. From an in-game perspective, we can only know about places the current races have been, and besides humanity not many have gone beyond continental Tyria.
What we do know is this:
- There’s a northern ocean, and the inland sea on our map connects to it. The kodan lived there, but were driven away by icebrood, which would likely leave it as part of Jormag’s current territory.
- There are more charr lands east of the northern part of our map.
- The asura used to have great cities in the Depths, and theoretically the ruins are still there. The entirety of the Depths is usually presumed to be part of Primordus’ territory.
Also:
It’s also the first of two hints to Scarlet utilizing Steam creature technologies. As Plagiarised said, it’s unknown why or how she is still, though.
Hopefully, ArenaNet hasn’t forgotten that this is left unknown and will explain it in the next three updates.
That’s the gist of everything we know about Mordremoth thus far, and how we know it. ArenaNet has not publicly named him, in either interviews or in-game NPC speech, but Colin did once mention a “jungle dragon” which again fits the theme of all our other evidence.
You’re missing a bit. Though some are only inferences.
@The V: Already stated in my first post on the thread.
@Aaron: Given the fact we have an Avatar of Grenth (not the skill but the NPC) and Avatar of Balthazar (seen in two PS steps), I doubt that the priests are stuck in Avatar form. I honestly think that, given how the priests were summoned (activating each statue), the original design of the dungeon was to be avatars and not priests, twisted by Zhaitan. Likely they ran out of time for new models but had the VO done already – which is also likely the reason why Zhaitan’s Rest is lacking a body of Zhaitan (when the model changed – as we see what is most likely Zhaitan’s corpse in the first trailer).
but it’s not crazy to talk with yourself as if someone were listening… right? ._.
Only if most of the world is crazy.
@Konig des Todes
-snip-
Yes, I re-read the short story’s section to refresh my memory but:
1) No where does it say that her teleportation devices come from the Synergetics storyline; especially considering they appear like Steam creature portals and the only other case of such portals being used besides Scarlet is the Infinity Ball.
2) There’s no indication of how long before the Snaff Prize the alterations took place, just the very general “upcoming” which could be a good deal, and the “several months” is rather vague too – 3 months still counts there. Though this does give a better indication of Scarlet’s age and when she underwent the experiment (after the PS started).
How Ceara kept it all in her head when it states she didn’t take any notes with her I don’t know. But them accessing the designs and her creating a device that allows her to teleport around without exit-gate which is exactly what the Translocator is still seems off to me.
There’s a major flaw with your theory:
Scarlet may not use gates, but she does use portals. The Translocator did NOT use portals.
The Snaff competition is described as upcoming, which seems to indicate only a few months left. Upcoming isn’t what I’d describe a yearly event 8-7 months from now.
Then she wandered around several months before meeting the Hylek which means 3 months at least.
And then she joins Omadd’s experiment and goes coo-coo.
Thaumanova happened only recently before the PS.
Technically speaking, the Thaumanova explosion could have arguably happened during the first chapter of the PS. The zones seem to progress in timeline on a level basis – so Thuamanova cleanup being level 15 could, theoretically, be after the first PS arc and during the second. As such, it is possible for the explosion to happen even after the Snaff Prize.
And actually at the end of the PS when Zojja works on the gun she says draconic energies. There’s no mention of it being made for Zhaitan in specific – it simply says lead tracer for draconic energies.
Earlier it is stated (I forget where, sadly) that the Pact’s cannon weaponry in Orr are anti-Risen. Or at least their cannons are.
I think? what you’re thinking about is Gorr’s rifle which was destroying Zhaitan’s magical essence of his will inside of Risen and was specifically an anti-Zhaitan weapon.
Not that (actually, I never did that story step), but I wouldn’t doubt it was derived from that.
No. The Thaumanova incident revealed their existence, and the fact there’s an intersection under/at/above Thaumanova, but that didn’t show where all the others are.
From the Thaumanova fractal:
Scarlet Briar: At least they helped identify the network of magical channels that crisscross the globe. That was a breakthrough. Now we know how NOT to do this kind of research right on an intersection of those channels. Live and learn, right?
Yes. “helped identify” not “helped locate”. As in, she figured out what the source of magic was – a network of magical channels that crisscross the globe.
i’m talking from an in-game perspective.
would it make any sense for the player if she out of nowhere started spouting about leylines with no previous information? ‘cause interviews are a very flimsy, niche source of information (in that the vast majority of players will never know it even happened), so the only time the average player could’ve learned about leylines was on the fractured release.
and without that release, there would be no way to introduce the concept of leylines in-game without feeling like a shoehorned last second change of plans.
Given how much of Scarlet comes out of no where – either to everyone or just to players who don’t seek story/lore outside of the game – then I would say yes, it would.
This isn’t some grand masterpiece where everything is going to be foreshadowed or make sense upon reveal. This is a flimsy story arc that ArenaNet used as a guine pig for their living story as they got used to working the LS update style and progress. Something I wish they didn’t do and instead spent more time between releases with more content per release.
A minor clarification, Bruno: the kodan do live in tribes, with 1 tribe per sanctuary. From the blog post you linked:
Originally from beyond the northern Shiverpeaks, the kodan tribes inhabit floating iceberg fortresses called Sanctuaries; one per tribe, they live and travel upon these mighty ice peaks, building entire cities within their shelter.
There’s more, such as the “lost tribe” believed by some Voices to have become the norn, but the rest is supplimentary.
on intelligence: one of the most basic tests of intelligence is the capacity to use basic tools and solve simple puzzles. you don’t need opposable thumbs or sophisticated technology for that. a bird that uses a rock to break a peanut is using a tool, for example.
But do the karka have hands? Claws? Not that I see. They have nothing but their mouth to grab with. How can one use tools other than buttons like that?
the karka’s social structure is akin to bees, their “avoiding of orr” is the basic instinct of survival that comes packed with every sentient being (ever heard how wild animals run away from storms before they happen?), and they don’t seem able to use tools. yes, they’re very intelligent… for crabs. just like you can say that parrots are very intelligent birds, or how we say dolphin are incredibly intelligent (which they are, but not on par with humans).
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/No-Risen-Karkas/first#post1156321
and they’re certainly smart enough to understand the threat they represent.
“understand the threat they represent” indicates more than mere survival instinct. Instinct doesn’t understand, it just does. That’s certainly above mere wildlife, and is even more comprehending than some sapient lesser races (like the grawl) who don’t see the threat of the Elder Dragons.
You misunderstand, perhaps I could have phrased that better. There were far more than six, or even seven races alive at the time of the last Elder Dragons’ awakening – there were the races above, for example, and possibly the largos, kodan, and krait, as well. And more than five seem to have survived (not necessarily including GL, I think this is where the confusion was). All of these would have struggled against the Elder Dragons, not just five of them. And all of this would have been known to Priory scholars for a while.
So when Scholar Trueclaw says “five against six”, she is not referring to the five races that happened to live at that time, but a specific alliance of five races. And when the player asks “Only five races?”, and Trueclaw responds with “that we know of”, the hint is not that there are more than five races opposing the Elder Dragons (this would hardly be a hint), but more than five races in that specific alliance.
Well I said I might be misunderstanding, so…
And I don’t think there’s any reason to believe the largos were around at the time – there’s nothing to indicate ancient knowledge, let alone knowledge on the Elder Dragons. As I see it, only tengu, kodan, and krait are contenders as we presently see. Other races may have been on grawl level at best in terms of social development (charr, quaggan, etc.) depending on which were and weren’t brought to the world with humanity (or some other means).
And what Trueclaw refers to is not necessarily those who fought the Elder Dragons together, but those who survived the Elder Dragons. She mentions that the records indicate five surviving races, not five united ones. Her dialogue actually doesn’t indicate any kind of alliance at all – the five races could easily have fought separately. Though it seems that – until the betrayal – seers and mursaat worked together, somewhat (otherwise it wouldn’t be a betrayal – but hey, maybe it wasn’t).
I think you’re suggesting that the tengu weren’t anywhere near the jotun during the Dragons’ last rise, which is why they weren’t present in the jotun records. We know that the tengu were spread across the world, including in the far north (as there is a house for the north wind). We know that there were Avicara tengu in the Southern Shiverpeaks 250 years ago, and Quetzal tengu in the Woodland Cascades also competed with jotun for territory at that time. And so, given as well that the tengu have specific knowledge of jotun astrology, I want to say that they interacted during the Elder Dragons’ previous rise, or at least had a mutual awareness of one another.
So then, if we’re still operating under the assumption that the tengu were one of the elder races, why don’t the jotun mention the tengu in their records, if not due to lack of proximity? As I said above, it could be that the tengu were one of the “five against the six” mentioned, replacing the traitorous mursaat. It could be that tengu joined the alliance after those specific records were created (although we have no reason to believe this, and from a narrative perspective it opens a bit of a stupid door where in principle any race could have joined the alliance).
What I was more suggesting is that they didn’t come into contact with jotun or the dwarves, as the dwarves have a few records the Priory has obtained too.
The tengu were spread out in recent centuries. Nothing indicates they were so spread during the previous dragon rise. Their North house is likely referring to the three continental Tyria tribes, IMO, given that north of Tyria is the arctic seas (i.e., near the north pole). So unless there’s penguin styled tengu… Yeah.
You’ve mentioned the tengu having specific knowledge of jotun astronomy (I believe that’s the right term here, not astrology), but we don’t ever see this in-game. Just because they have a prophecy about a star doesn’t mean they knew jotun astronomy – the humans, after all, had prophecies as well as timetables based around the stars, but they didn’t know of jotun astronomy. So you need to stop presenting theory as fact.
It’s only unknown because we don’t really know what happens to a soul when “killed” in the Mists. We never heard from Shiro again nor do we receive any indication that he and Khilbron’s souls would have survived.
Wait wait wait… Caithe is kidnapped ? Oo
During the new Twilight Arbor path. She’s captured and imprisoned by Scarlet – you free her at the end.
And the mention of her breaking with Teyo into Rata Sum’s archives for the upcoming Snaff competition. That would place the whole Inquest dabbling some time before the PS whereas the short-story states that after the Inquest deal she wandered several months then stayed with the hylek. Teyo’s Scarlet’s former krewemate and the one who stole the Snaff Savant’s Translocator which apparently was supposed to serve as explanation for Scarlet’s crazy teleporting around, but this makes the whole “so where does thaumanova fit in” deal even more confusing.
Actually, Ceara was exiled from Rata Sum with no possessions on her. So unless she has a hell of a good memory, then she didn’t have any of the Snaff Prize competition stuff with her.
And I don’t think a placement is really easy with that, given that we don’t know how long the blueprints would be in the archives. Though it seems very weird that the upcoming inventions would have such placed within Rata Sum’s archives.
Anywayyys, I’ve been thinking and trying to see the whole plot from another angle. By the end of the PS we have a multiracial army and even anti-dragon lasers.
Anti-Risen/Zhaitan* It was geared for Zhaitan’s magical frequency IIRC – or whatever it was called. A lot of the Pact’s stuff before story mode Arah are made for anti-Risen, though.
I somehow doubt that souls can survive being destroyed – it’s said those souls “killed” in the mortal world are sent into the Mists, but what of souls “killed” in the Mists? Souls have to eventually disappear somehow (be it reincarnation or their energy dissipating), otherwise the Mists would literally have to be infinite as does The Underworld and other multi-racial afterlives.
The asura’s take on the Mists in comparison to the Eternal Alchemy is never stated.
I think they’d treat it as they would treat the world, or the moon.
but she knows where the ley lines are, doesn’t she? I mean, she knew that they intersect at thaumanova…
No. The Thaumanova incident revealed their existence, and the fact there’s an intersection under/at/above Thaumanova, but that didn’t show where all the others are.
Ley lines are a possibility, but I have to wonder if the Thaumanova fractal hasn’t side-tracked us a bit too much in that regard.
you think? :P
i’d like to think it that way: would the future living story chapters (and thus its conclusion) make sense if we did not have the information obtained at the thaumanova fractal?
that’s why i try to disregard anything that happened on thaumanova, and why i definitely don’t see abaddon popping up to say hi,
Technically, players first learned of ley lines from an interview with Angel McCoy months before Fractured!’s release.
And honestly, yes. Scarlet going after a ley line would make sense even if we didn’t know that she knew of it. At least, it would make as much sense as her somehow getting a dozen+ krait obelisk shards, or her somehow working with steam creatures, or her somehow easily hijacking the Watchknights, or her somehow being undetected by the Priory despite being right underneath them, or her somehow capturing one of the best thieves in existence (Caithe) and knowing said thief’s secret (which apparently everyone forgot about).
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
She may be a copy of Scarlet from some other point in time and location
So its entirely possible she could of been standing outside of the blast radius witnessing the reactor’s explosion and commenting about it to one of her lackeys?
Theoretically, yes. The Mists can easily mix and mash multiple times and places. The Aquatic Fractal for example is hinted to being a mix-mash of Ascalonian and Elonian histories.
Though my thought was more along the lines of “while working with one of her modern alliance minions, she was going over and explaining her plot to said minion, and what we saw was her summary of the Thaumanova Explosion – the first line referring to the Queen’s Jubilee anarchy (or some such).”
What if she was using a device similar to Headmaster Omadd’s machine? From the short story it seemed to actually project her conscious directly into the Mists. I’ll admit I don’t understand the technical information of Fractals but I’m assuming the fractal acts as a pocket dimension with its own rules and restrictions, hence why those going into the fractal from the laboratory would have their appearance changed to Inquest personnel.
Or what if whatever see saw has the capability of manipulating the mists in any form thus allowed her to enter the fractal unaffected by the rules and restrictions imposed onto those who enter the fractals?
I apologize if my post seems a bit random I’m just trying to maintain a neutral perception until more information is available.
Well, per an interview, the machine was a “sensory deprivation” tank of sorts. Meaning that she literally went into her own head. It is far more likely she went into the Dream – or beyond it using the Dream’s tie – than going into the Mists or the Eternal Alchemy (this could also be why Omadd’s earlier test subjects died, while Scarlet survived – the Dream connection saved her kitten ).
Taimi’s obviously Snaff’s daughter. Born around the time of his death.
The djinn are mainly Elonian and so possibly unaffected by the Elder Dragons’ last rise,
Just want to interject here and say that we have no indication that the Elder Dragons were all or mostly in Tyria during the last rise.
Though there’s evidence of Primordus, Kralkatorrik, and Jormag having at least influence at the time in continental Tyria, Zhaitan and Mordremoth do not. In fact, to elaborate, Arah seems to have been around at the time – particularly the basilica that Glint was freed was there; in the same turn, it was under Forgotten control not Zhaitan (it seems unlikely to immense degrees for the Forgotten to purify Kralkatorrik’s champion in the heart of Zhaitan’s domain) – it seems that, if not the Forgotten, then Kralkatorrik controlled that land; and at (again) the same time, Kralkatorrik’s blood from the previous rise was found in the Crystal Desert by Glint over the time the ED slept, indicating that he was in battle over the Crystal Sea or Siren’s Bay at the time.
This leads me to personally believe that Kralkatorrik’s domain controlled much of eastern continental Tyria and possibly even reaching to Elona. Zhaitan’s domain thus would have been… not in continental Tyria. And both the presence of Jormag and Primordus is known only because of dwarven records and relics- relics of them are found even in Cantha thus it is possible they moved about, and could have received knowledge or relics of other Elder Dragons and brought them to continental Tyria. With the world’s magic being absorbed into the Bloodstone, kept in continental Tyria, it would be far from unlikely that the Elder Dragons came to Tyria in their “death” throes of hunger, and that they could, in fact, have been elsewhere in the world during the majority of their rise. Though theorycrafting, if such is the case then Jormag for sure wouldn’t have been in Tyria at the last dragon rising as he was on the northern edge of the continent/arctic seas when he awoke, only a champion in continental Tryia
Given all this, though the last dragon rise is highly unknown, from the scattered facts we can create theoretical scenarios for what happened and how. And such theories would not exempt djinn from ED influence just due to being in Elona.
What we need to know is were the tengu, at that time, a sufficiently advanced civilisation as to have been considered one of the “elder races”, i.e. a member of the alliance against the Elder Dragons.
I think this is still the wrong question. I think the proper question is “where would they have been during the previous dragon rise to not be included by the jotun?”
Djinn were in Elona; karka were in the depths and pushed to the shorelines. Jotun remained simply in the Shiverpeak Mountains as far as we know, but interacted with the dwarves (their nation(s) being hinted at being Southern/Central Shiverpeaks, Ascalon, and Blood Legion Homelands – later moved to Shiverpeaks for unknown reasons, perhaps charr) and Forgotten (who at least after the dragon rise spread across the known world).
If we assume for a moment that the tengu were a member of the alliance of “elder races” against the Elder Dragons, then it would make sense that their distrust of other races stems from their betrayal at the hands (wings?) of the mursaat. This would neatly explain how the tengu know about jotun astrology and other ancient lore, and also maybe even provide a basis for speculation on their link to Orr (their home before the last rise of Zhaitan, perhaps?). But then we have another question on our hands, namely why (and how) was all mention of tengu involvement in the fight against the Elder Dragons seemingly expunged from the historical record? For this I have no ideas, and of the top of my head I can’t think of anything found in Orr that would even go some way toward explaining it. So sure, it’s fine to postulate that the tengu are one of the elder races, but then you have the difficult task of explaining why none of the (admittedly incomplete) other records make mention of this, and in fact in some cases (“five against six”, although I suppose this could have been written after the mursaat’s betrayal) directly contradict it.
Not a bad theory, but per the above I don’t think that Orr was tengu land. Seems more likely to have been Forgotten (especially how after their arrival, the Six took near immediate claim of Arah and thus Orr). On top of that, I don’t see how the Caromi, Avicara, and Quetzal would not lay claim to Orr when they’re so close to it. Though admittedly, we have very little in the way of Tyrian tengu history.
i don’t think the karka would count. they’re giant territorial crabs. smart crabs, but still crabs. they don’t have any magic prowess, or capacity for development of tools. it doesn’t even look like they build their own shelter.
if you count them, you might as well start counting the skelk as a race fighting the dragons.
The karka may not have aposable thumbs but they are highly intelligent per what was said – I believe by Matthew Medina around the time of the Lost Shores. This intelligence is also a contributor to avoiding Orr and the remaining Risen. And they do build their own shelter. IIRC, the lore of, well, pretty much the entire Karka Hive is that it was built out of a liquid that hardens into something harder than steel – they also use this on their shells, which is why the acid is needed.
We don’t know if they can communicate with non-karka or not, but we haven’t really tried either (and even then, maybe they “can” but “won’t”). But they’re definitely above “just crabs”. Just because they can’t write or have sophisticated tools doesn’t mean they’re “just crabs”.
They are sapient and intelligent. Thus they fit Scholar Trueclaw’s mention of “sentient races that survived.”
The following races (to my memory) have been explicitly stated to have lived throughout the last rise of the Elder Dragons:
[…]
- Giganticus lupicus
Not really sure what you’re implying with the mention of the GL and “lived throughout”, to me it implies you’re suggesting some survived, so to ensure clarity only, the Giganticus Lupicus did not live through – at least as far as we know (there’s Priory members who hope/believe some still live, particularly mentioned in Arah if the NPC you’re escorting lived through the fight, I believe the sylvari outright mentions hoping to help/meet/cure the Risen GL’s kind if they’re found (or was it “if they’re still some left”)). The GL in Arah was a Risen even during the previous rise, per an interview between GuildMag and Ree/Jeff/Scott – rather, it was made during the previous rise. All indications give us that they were fully extinct sometime during the Giganticus Lupicus.
The others… the other priests?
The Priest of Grenth is an old man in a robe. Again, mimicking (a depiction of) Grenth.
The Priest of Melandru is… a fat man with branches and a leaf loincloth. No mimicking here but taking her aspects into his appearance.
The Priestess of Lyssa wears a 4-faced mask. This is a mimicry of the dervish Avatar of Lyssa.
The Priest of Balthazar is a tall helmeted (shirtless?) warrior with a big kitten flaming sword (at least in Arah, don’t recall if same at the temple). Basically a warrior priest.
On the subject of aether, it is my suggestion that this is the “first matter” from which everything else comes (or something close to that). Aether is the purest form of being, which has various kinds of sub-form in-game, such as arcane magic and chaos magic.
That’s the protomatter of the Mists.
Ether appears to be, in the simplest explanation, pure raw unmanipulated magic. Magic can be used to do a lot of things, thus changes form a lot, but ether (rarely also called Aether but outside of the Aetherblades and related stuff, it is almost always called Ether) seems to be the purest or most raw form of magic, since it can be used to bend reality however one (aka mesmers) see fit.
Ceara is currently working toward creating (or may have already created) the philosopher’s stone. The process of completing this monumentous task is known in alchemy as the “Magnum Opus” or Great Work.
The philosopher’s stone could be a stone (or crystal), it could be an elixir (in particular, the exlixir of life), or even something else. Given that the asura have a penchant for elixir creation and Ceara’s development of the toxin from the Tower Of Nightmares, I suggest that an elixir is a strong possibility.
Given how they are now called Energy Probes, it would make more sense that they aren’t used for scanning for something but used to gather energy to empower something.
Taimi states they’re used for looking.
Which are what probes are, typically. Not gatherers but seekers.
Given the name, it’s likely she’s looking for… wait for it… energy!
Likely, thus, magical concentrations. Such as ley lines…
And she has a drill…
The Old Man disappeared I(most likely) because he ran out of hiding places in Auld Red Wharf, given that the krait finally stripped down all the buildings there. He was likely captured and enslaved by the krait and forced to help build the Tower of Nightmares until he died because of his old age and the toxins.
He is not Kasmeer’s father. He was no noble, and Kasmeer’s father died in jail.
Also, the Searing Crystals are most likely to be a magical crystal with no earthly comparison – in all honesty, it’s highly implied to be of Kralkatorrik’s magic, thus would be akin to the Branded crystals. It is also purple/blue in color, whereas sunstone are not.
Abaddon didn’t see a problem with this because of his total belief in the “survival of the fittest” mentality.
How do you get survival of the fittest out of “Act with magic, act within reason, act without mercy”? That’s Abaddon’s motto if we ever had one, straight from the game.
Abaddon is not a survival of the fittest kind of guy – if any powerful entity is that, it is Jormag.
The “additional dialogue” as an Order of Whispers is just common Whispers code. Something the Unsomethinged; respond with Something else the Something elsed.
And in all honesty, no it doesn’t hint at “there are six races” – it just states “our records may not be complete.” This goes for everything about the time, not just “hey, there may be one and only one more race.”
Besides, as I said WE HAVE SEVEN RACES. Not five. Not six. SEVEN. Do people have selective reading considering how many times I’ve said this? KARKA AND DJINN WERE AROUND THEN, based on Zomorros’ dialogue during The Lost Shores.
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