Guild Wars 2

I would like to note that you do not need to destroy a city when attacking it.

The Grove, Rata Sum, Divinity’s Reach, Black Citadel, and Lion’s Arch were each assaulted in the personal story. All survived. In Season 1, DR was also assaulted directly (Clockwork Chaos), and during Season 2, The Grove was assaulted – again, both survived.

Some folks who upload to the wiki do have ‘toaster’ computers. Some don’t.

If an image exists, most people don’t bother putting a new one up unless the current one is really bad or the new uploader is that narcissistic.

Never noticed a keyhole but then again I don’t own any of those three legendaries.

Lost opportunity on ArenaNet to have a drawing animation where the stowed version is just the handle and as you unsheath it a magical key appears in the keyhole and ‘unlocks’ the ‘blade’.

But anyways, we have pretty much no lore on the legendaries so it’s hard to say. It could have purpose, it could just be decorational.

Since the High Wizard wields it, my guess is thakittens into the apparent job as gate guardian.

First off, HoT isn’t LS3. LS3 will come after HoT.

Secondly, it’s not the Ventari’s tablet that offers protection, but the Dream – and Nightmare.

But as shown in S2’s first episode, if you interact with her holorecording in her lab that’s found, she changes drastically at the point of entering the machine. Combined with Season 1’s “A Study in Scarlet”, this also marks when she begins hearing things and having weird dreams – Mordremoth’s control began with the machine, but was slow and steady.

Eh, but there’s this little issue that Glint was freed then hide the races from the Elder Dragons.

Are we to believe that Kralkatorrik had fallen asleep when Glint hid them from him?

Take note that the hiding bit comes from not only multiple NPCs, but also the devs. Given that Edge of Destiny was outsourced I’d be more willing to place on the devs + NPCs than the book.

sorudo.9054:

aw, are you afraid you lose out loot…….i seriously don’t care about one single enemy if it improves the overall game.

Yeah, because the Shatterer drops awsomely epic loot…

The thing is that it WON’T improve the game. The dragon champions are depicted as terrible creatures of immense power, with the Elder Dragons beyond years beyond such. To make one a level 25 foe is… pathetic to the lore.

It’s nothing but harm.

sorudo.9054:

these places are actually not as tough in lore as you think, just less easy.
play GW1 for instance, there is a whole area there and mid levels steamroll through there.
it’s tough…..for inexperience adventurers.

GW1 didn’t have the Dragonbrand.

Which is what I was referring to, which is half of your 15-25 map.

GW1 also didn’t have access to Fields of Ruin area, nor the ogre invasion.

The area got more hazardous in the past 250 years. And that’s to the lore.

sorudo.9054:

actually it does, low level areas are made for low level players, mid level areas have a higher challenge in them because everyone there is expected to have enough specialization, rare armor and an elite skill

The issue here is that you’re not removing low level areas. You’re just moving them about.

And like I said, if downscaling is done right then even if you have specializations unlocked, higher tier armor, and elite skills it won’t matter, you’d still be just as strong as a PC at the map’s level. IF done right.

sorudo.9054:

you focus way to much on ascalon, ascalon is suppose to be low/mid level.
it may not be in GW2 but everything, from lore to GW1, it already shows it’s a low level continent.

1) Not a continent
2) Nothing says Ascalon is supposed to be low/mid level. Just because it was in GW1 doesn’t mean it should be in GW2.
3) Originally, Kryta was low level in GW1.
4) Fireheart Rise is high level in GW2.
5) You’re still not reducing the number of low level zones, just switching their placement.

sorudo.9054:

they changed whole cities, heck, destroyed whole areas and you worry about something they can fix in half the time it takes to add even the basics of new LA?
don’t complain when you have no idea what you’re talking about. (and yes, i do, i even design games)

They might have reshaped LA, but they utilize the old maps of LA for the steps.

Furthermore, they didn’t change the levels of the areas, which you are suggesting. That’s what messes things up. LA might have been destroyed, but both before and after destruction as well as rebuilding, you’d be level 30-60 going through that area in the Personal Story.

However, you’d be going through your hypothetical level 60 zone as a level 10-30. That doesn’t work. And do you think they’d completely scrap 7 different storylines and rebuild new ones from the ground up? That’s a waste of resources.

It’s clearly you who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

sorudo.9054:

yah, quite huge…….
no seriously, it takes more time to add even 1/5 of new LA then making ebonhawke a city, making an armor, adding it and fit it for every body size and type takes more time then redoing the PS for humans.

so if we would look at how you see it, it’s way to much work to add a city, remove a city, change the levels of enemies and relocating the PS.

Changing the appearance of a single no-foe-no-event-no-balance map is vastly different than changing four maps, three of which do have foes, events, and in turn balancing, and seven storylines.

sorudo.9054:

i try to add a mode, challenge players and to centralize new players in one spot, improving the game overall.
you want to keep it the way it is, keeping the game as boring and unorganized as it already is.
i improve, you complain.

Strawman argument if I ever saw one.

I’m not wanting things to be kept the way it is. I’d just rather not have pointless reworks that could have different, simpler, reworks done with better results.

You don’t need to turn DR and Queensdale into tougher maps, while turning Fields of Ruin and Blazeridge Steppes into easier maps. That’s counter productive – all you’re doing is shuffling things around, not improving. The end outcome is the same, but with different appearances.

Anet’s resources would be better spent reworking the dungeons like they did Ascalon Catacombs way back when to make them all on par to Aetherpath -all level 80s, with unique drops within, unique boss fights, minimal running past mobs allowed, and overall better rewards -; or to rework The Shatterer, Claw of Jormag, and all the other world bosses to be on par to Tequatl, Vinewrath, Twisted Marionette, Prime Hologram, or Triple Trouble – to require more than just standing still, pressing one, and going afk.

I’m not complaining about improving things. I’m complaining about shuffling things about with the same end-result!

No. Sylvari do not control Wyld Hunts, and they’re not messages at all. One of the sylvari outside the Grove describe it as an “itching feeling” at the nape of the neck that you can’t scratch until you do something you’re meant to do – whatever vision you got.

The Wyld Hunts come from the Dream as tasks for sylvari to do. Neither the Pale Tree nor any sylvari has control over them – or the Dream. The most control the Pale Tree has over the Dream is protecting it from harm.

The Pale Tree knowing of the egg is likely related to how Ogden knew of the vision that the Pale Tree gave the PC and no one else. Ogden makes mention of a secret group – that doesn’t seem to be the Order of Whispers – that seems involved/interested in these events but in the background of things.

Why they remain in the background is just as questionable.

Kossage.9072:

Eullo mentions having come to Watchful Source, the sylvari encampment, to collect samples from the invading mordrem despite the dangers she would be facing there. When asked about the sylvari, she doesn’t care to “state the obvious”, and that’s where the ambiguity and the need for context, in my opinion, comes in. The settlement is full of sylvari, and Eullo’s answer to the player seems to imply more that the sylvari, as civilians/soldiers in the area, are in as much a danger of being overrun by Mordrem as she is. She seems more concerned about whether Mordremoth’s corruption will affect the area than whether it would affect certain individuals…or at least that’s the way she comes across to me. She actually expresses regret that, for research purposes, the area is still unaffected by the dragon’s corruption so she has to keep waiting for something “interesting” to happen.

Perhaps this is a language issue as I’m not a native English speaker, but what Eullo says doesn’t outright make it seem to me that she’s aware that sylvari can be turned by Mordremoth; instead she’s aware that her research could get her, and the sylvari in the area, in danger due to the invading Mordrem and that her concern is what effects the corruption will have on the area specifically.

I definitely don’t read it that way. The dialogue seems to imply the Eullo, not the civilian sylvari (or asura, or humans, or skritt) are in danger.

And if it is a case of civilians in danger, why only mention sylvari and not mention the others nearby (skritt, asura, and humans)? Why don’t the other researchers have dialogue that talk about potential civilian casualties – they don’t mention anything like Eullo, perhaps because they’re not surrounded by dozens of sylvari (There are some near the Kessex researcher, mind you, but not nearly as many as Eullo’s place).

Kossage.9072:

If the devs still intend HoT’s story to begin immediately/within 24 hours from the end of LW Season 2, are we to believe that this mordrem invasion happened in between us reaching Camp Resolve and whatever the beginning of HoT’s very first story instance will be? So the Commander ran from Silverwastes to aid against this invasion in three different maps, and somehow during this time period of 24 hours (give or take) news of the Pact fleet decimation (and sylvari turning AND being revealed as belonging to the dragon) would’ve reached the ears of not only the Pact soldiers in Silverwastes but also Brisban Wildlands for Eullo to somehow come to that conclusion and mentioning it very casually like it was common knowledge (if that’s the way her sentence is to be interpreted)?

It’s more than just the invasions.

We also have the preparations for the LA reconstruction, the LA reconstruction itself, and then the invasions. Potentially one may argue in the Lunar New Year too, since Wintersday was pushed into the storyline as well.

Most importantly to my point is one of the dialogues from the short-term LA reconstruction. Brokka had this to say to OoW members:

Ah, what a delight to see a fellow agent in the field. Word from headquarters is that our assignments will be changing once we return to Lion’s Arch.
→ I imagine they will. Any word on the Pact?
Any agents who survived the crash have been recalled to headquarters, and from what I hear, the number is very small. Others are also being called back.

Indicating that not only has the Pact’s fleet destruction happened, but survivors had made it back to the Chantry of Secrets.

This does NOT happen in 24 hours when it takes 3+ days to travel from Ebonhawke to Ascalon City (per Ghosts of Ascalon).

So either everything that’s happened thus far is meant to be during the events of Heart of Thorns, or ArenaNet realized that they were too optimistic for how soon to get HoT out and that 24 hour thing is no longer the case.

If it weren’t for that line I’d argue that the LA reconstruction is a “during Season 2, meanwhile elsewhere…” situation.

Caithe fleeing the second time makes perfect sense to me.

The Shadow of the Dragon is thought to be invincible. We could only kill it thanks to divine fire. Why Mordremoth has such a powerful champion is unknown, though. And Caithe fled once the Shadow of the Dragon showed up to keep the egg out of mordrem hands.

What bothers me is that Season 2 ended with such a huge cliffhanger.

An overall interesting concept – one I heard before as an off-comment but never had anyone put research into. However, I feel that there’s two major flaws in your theory.

First off, if you talk to Dessa, she effectively states that the act of “stabilizing” is “pacifying” the hostile elements. To quote:

“I hate to ask, but I need combat specialists to dispose of the hostile elements we acquired in the fractals during Mistlock. Can you do this?”

“For now. Fractals operate like a loop. They reset and hostile elements return. I haven’t yet cracked how to permanently pacify them.”

Secondly, Fractals are stuck in a loop. This is the lore behind us repeatedly going to the same fractals – they “reset” after a time. Just like, if you were around for it, during Fractured! and the fractal’s story mode that Kiel tried to have Dessa leave through the asura gate but the second she did, Dessa appeared right where she always did, not knowing who anyone but her krewe was.

The fractals are more than just “islands of existence” – they’re literally stuck in time, eternally resetting.

And Dessa’s need to exterminate the hostile elements just grows as she has to clear them again, and again, and again.

Tyria doesn’t repeat. It’s gone on over a dozen thousand years without such.

mexay.3902:

This fractal, above all, has lead me to this conclusion. The fractal ends not when we slay the Arch-diviner, who is essentially a somewhat powerful human, but when the Colossus exits the fractal.

I’m fairly sure that the pop up for moving on happens when the colossus breaks its chains, not when it disappears.

This also counters Dessa’s explanations, that stabilizing = pacifying

Camera is facing inland.

I believe it was said that the Zhaitan fight was rushed in the end.

I think a lot of the later PS was, given how buggy it was – especially compared to the pre-Claw Island storylines.

I hope we don’t fight Mordremoth from the inside. Not only is that an overly done cliche, but it’s honestly ridiculous when Elder Dragons can corrupt everything around them by consuming its magic – wouldn’t they be capable of instantly corrupting everything inside them (which is in a way already consumed)?

That seems to have been one of the ideas tossed around, going off of concept art. Kekai Kotaki had three concept arts that were of “pieces” of Zhaitan:

The Dragon’s Head
The Left Hand of the Dragon
The Right Hand of the Dragon (technically unnamed but thematically same as the named “The Left Hand of the Dragon” piece)

Seen here with other Zhaitan concepts

Would have been awesome if those were the final three bosses of the PS. But honestly, the original Arah story mode mission was long enough. Though it would have been good enough if they were the shared boss of Arah explorable instead of the G-Lupe (with the G-Lupe elsewhere, such as where we fight the Mouth of Zhaitan in Arah?). Each “piece” of Zhaitan would have been roughly the size of Tequatl and other dragon champions – or at least in height and width.

Zhaitan I think was placed well but executed poorly the entire way – we needed a persistent champion of Zhaitan to act as a continuous barrier to break through. Imagine if the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan was seen taking Claw Island, killing our mentor, and returned for each assault on the Order HQs, returned for Forging the Pact’s ambush, was the Eye we saw in Temple of the Forgotten God, was the one we thought we were killing when killing the first PS eye, only to see it “looking at us” in the next story step, and then finally returning at the Source of Orr for the final battle. That would have made much better attachment.

And I dislike how one of his champions – the Giganticus Lupicus – was easily the toughest foe in the game pre-Season 1. It really felt off for a minion of Zhaitan to be stronger mechanically than the Elder Dragon.

So yeah, Zhaitan’s time of death was done well, but the journey there and the mechanics weren’t.

It was highly disappointing to me that they killed off Gaheron and Kudu so soon. They should have been left alive, like Faolain and Caudecus. And I would have preferred any of those four as villains for Season 1. Kudu or Faolain (or even an alliance between Faolain, Caudecus, and Kudu via Sinister Triad) would have been more than perfect.

I rather disagree with GW1 villains having more depth. Bonfaaz had less depth than Gaheron, for example – as did Hierophant Burntsoul, Duncan the Black, Urgoz, Kanaxai, and until the BMP, Optimus Caliph.

And as for love of heroes/henchmen of GW1 – many actually do have nods and references in GW2. Most Prophecies henchmen (the non-Devona and co. ones) have graves in the Granite Citadel, and Stefan’s ghost is even fought in the charr PS. Many of the EotN heroes get various mentions here and there too (Pyre, Jora, Gwen, and Ogden being more than obvious). Makes sense not to get too many references of NF and Factions henchmen/heroes, since we haven’t visited those lands. I’ll just say that I’ll be highly disappointed if we don’t see Shiro’s jade-frozen corpse if we ever go to Cantha.

I don’t get where you got that “no living being can stay in the brand for a period of time” thing as that’s exactly what the Sentinels do.

Technically it’s still a transmutation. Just a free one.

As for the use of repeat skins – it’s a free transmute. That’s all.

Caithe’s pretty strong-willed so I doubt she’ll ever fall to Mordremoth truth be told. Not without some massive character breaking being caused first.

Besides, nothing says that she knows that sylvari can be controlled by mordremoth – especially when she takes the egg. Aside from Aerin and Scarlet (the former she might not have known about), no sylvari had been turned by Mordremoth yet.

And if she did know, then it would be best to keep it away from the mass of sylvari – such as near the Pale Tree, which is likely where the PC would take it given the PC was given the task of protecting the egg by the Pale Tree.

Besides that, given where Caithe took the egg – a hidden cave protected from mordrem by all appearances, and seemingly tied to the Exalted – it’s possible that the next time we see Caithe will be in the safety of the Exalted (whom I still suspect are more tied to the Forgotten, the real name of the race still unknown to us, rather than the mursaat that most think).

Destiny’s Edge disappears when you complete chapter 3 of the personal story. Their presence isn’t tied to Season 2.

Kossage isn’t entirely right that the instances take place in the past. This only really is the case of story instances, not world instances. For example, the Omphalos Chamber has the Avatar of the Tree unconscious after completing The World Summit.

World instances like the DE instances are like everything else in the open world – they’re only updated when Anet deems fit. Usually this is done when the story of the location is progressed via the Living World, but when it’s only abstractly involved it’s not quite so obvious.

In this case, it’s likely that because their presence is already coded to be there or not based on the PS progression that it is harder to change for other installments too, especially when you can switch between PS and S2.

It’s not. That’s just one cycle of stuff. The rewards change periodically (I think it was every week) with a new set each cycle. There was a reddit thread that datamined everything but HoT and Dry Top/Silverwastes map stuff – later a dev commented that Dry Top/Silverwastes will get an update but it wasn’t implemented for BWE2 due to being a bigger project. The wiki only lists what was obtainable during BWE2.

Here is reddit thread.

Here is dev comment.

Giant eyes are available on 6 maps with 1 cycle per map sans Cursed Shore which gives 2 cycles. Only level 60+ map that doesn’t give Giant Eyes (that we know) is Southsun Cove.

NOTE: Link from reddit thread contains map names for HoT, so spoilers kinda.

NOTE2: This list comes from BWE2 so there’s a chance it’s out of date.

Pretty much what Tapioca and Aaron said.

Sylvari characters have a good reason to trust her, as you get to know her well – as well if not more due to shared Wyld Hunt than the other races’ can trust their respective mentor – and you do get a good deal of interaction with her in TA (and, less so, Honor of the Waves and Aetherpath).

Caithe’s actions has largely been a case of ‘act before explaining’ but it’s always been with good intent – maybe not good outcome, however. So while it’s hard to trust her upfront actions, it’s easy to trust her intentions.

You could play through Season 1 – and Season 2 – without doing the personal story and not missing anything. Season 1 was designed to be that way.

This is a pointless thing to argue over though.

sorudo.9054:

fields of ruin: part of it turns in to ebonhawke city, the rest is for lvl 1-15
blazeridge steppes: lvl 15-25, iron marches has gatekeepers warning players for the high lvl change. (iron marches stays the same)

I’m sorry, but you want the Shatterer to be a level 25 boss?

No. Just no.

And these areas were portrayed as the toughest areas of Ascalon in earlier renditions – particularly in lore. It’s sad enough that the ‘no one leaves here alive’ Ascalon City is in the starter zone for charr.

sorudo.9054:

IMO it’s just better to keep starter areas in one area, splitting them as much as we have it now means there are way to many low level areas and higher lvl areas are way to far out of reach and to localized.

With downscaling done right, it wouldn’t matter how many low level zones you have.

Besides, your suggestion only moves the low level zones to Ascalon, making more of Ascalon low leveled rather than reducing the number of low level zones.

Furthermore, your suggestion completely ignores the personal story – I’m sorry, but you cannot be sending level 10 players to a “level 60 elite zone” without massive backlash. And can you imagine what the backlash would be if they reworked the entire human’s personal story? There was huge enough backlash for the removal of the greatest fear story arc, and there’s constant complaints about season 1 having been temporary.

Not to mention the pure amount of work in reworking all of this. It would be a HUGE undertaking for no real results. And wouldn’t even achieve your desire of fewer starter zones!

1) What’s the difference between base Dragons and Elder Dragons?

In effect, we don’t rightfully know. This is mainly because we don’t know the origin of the Elder Dragons.

But as far as we know: There are only six Elder Dragons, they are ancient beings that lived over 30,000 years (and probably much, much longer), as you’ll learn in Season 2 they hold ties to the very foundation of the world. They’re also capable of corrupting other beings – which we’ve had no indication of non-Elder Dragons being capable of (unless you speak of dragon champions).

It should be noted that dragons like Tequatl, The Shatterer, Glint, Shadow of the Dragon, Claw of Jormag, etc. etc. are dragon champions, and not (necessarily) actual – originally – dragons. The Shatterer for example is a construct made in the shape of a dragon.

Dragons are a group of species of which most could be found in Cantha. Saltspray Dragons being the most prominent of them. In Tyria there was a dragon species which died out known – known to players as Bone Dragons (their zombie forms). And one can probably count the recently discovered with HoT Wyverns.

But we don’t know much about the relation – if any – between them and the Elder Dragons. Though it would not be surprising if Elder Dragons are just really old and magically powerful members of 1-6 different dragon races (such as Mordremoth being a Moss Dragon that were so common in the Echovald Forest of Cantha).

2) How many Dragons and Elder Dragons do we have?

Six Elder Dragons.

Dragons are entire species – so a lot; hundreds upon hundreds.

Unless you mean dragon champions (Tequatl, Shatterer, etc.) in which case numerous but not probably no more than a few hundred at best. I’m sure you can go into each Orr map + Arah story and count the number of dragons out there, and you’d end up with probably 30-40 or so. But no actual number has been given.

3) Do the Elder Dragons “represent” certain areas? (Khal is desert/heat, Jor is mountain/snow, Zhai is wasteland/dead…etc)

This will be brought up in Season 2.

But the non-S2 stuff is:

Primordus is Fire.
Kralkatorrik is Crystal.
Jormag is Ice.
Zhaitan is Death/Undeath.
Mordremoth is Plant.

4) Which Elder Dragons are still alive?

Primordus, Jormag, Kralkatorrik, Mordremoth, and the name-unknown-to-players deep sea dragon. Only Zhaitan is dead, as you just killed him.

5) Why is Tequatl so special? (compared to all the other dragons, he is the only mini + wing + title + metaMegaevent…)

This was part of the Season 1 storyline, which was basically “Tequatl got a power boost after Zhaitan’s death, reason unknown but related to story.” This was shown via a boost to the meta event – before he was as simple as fighting The Shatterer, not very prominent – but had nothing really told other than “he got a power boost and we don’t know why”.

Season 2 gives potential answers to it. I will not spoil for you.

And the other dragon champions have meta events to them too. They’re just not so grand because Tequatl got a rework the others didn’t (to many players’ dismay). The only reason Tequatl has the wings, mini, and title is due to the Season 1 release that buffed him.

6) Do the strengths and weaknesses vary heavily between each Elder Dragon?

While they’re all capable of corrupting the same way – except potentially Mordremoth for reasons I find annoying personally (to me, he feels different for the sole purpose of plot drama and to have a certain Season 2 spoiler you likely know about if you’ve been following HoT info but I won’t spoil anyways) – they do this corruption differently.

I’ll note right now that while most people think Zhaitan only corrupts corpses, this is not true. Throughout the game we see him corrupting – directly from his minions/champions or indirectly via artifacts – the living, the dead, plants, the land, the air, and water. Jormag is seen corrupting the same sans plants (dead, living, land, air, and water); Kralkatorrik is seen corrupting most (living, land, plants, air, and water); and Primordus is seen only corrupting land but told to us capable of corrupting living beings too.

In short: they can do the same thing.

But they do this differently. Their corruption takes different forms (fire, ice, crystal, decay, etc.), and their methods of corrupting differs (Kralkatorrik breaths on what he corrupts; Primordus forms corruption in vats of lava; Zhaitan radiates corruption; Jormag convinces people to join his side and then corrupts them).

As shown at the end of Season 2, what tactics and weaponry worked on Zhaitan and his risen don’t seem to work so well on mordrem. Just as you wouldn’t expect what works for destroying ice (icebrood) to work well in fighting molten rock (destroyers) or hardened crystals (branded).

Aaron Ansari.1604:

we saw quite a few non-elder dragons, all of them but Glint and her kid in Cantha.

Rotscale and the bone dragons would disagree.

As would Shiny.

A similar power that the Pact uses is a good guess. Ley line magic tends to be more prismatic, as seen in the ley line hub and with the Mordrem Ley Leecher.

They Pact’s fences’ magic is generated by the Alesta Generator in part designed by Arcanist Slizz. It’s basically a weal ward against risen.

Which has always made me wonder why the Pact uses the fences – even minorly – at Camp Resolve. One would think that they’d have no effect on mordrem…

vanderwolf.7084:

The forgotten were servants to them yes, but they did not worship them…It was more of a respect based relationship than a following. They followed Glint far more than they followed the gods themselves.

Yet they are priests to the Six Gods

I don’t think it’s merely respect and not worship. You do not become a priest of a being you would not worship. Nor would you call beings you respect titles like god – let alone “Ancient Ones”/“Ancient Gods”. Nor would they use their name in a blessing if it were mere respect.

Eddie Mo.7169:

1) So if I start now, I am no longer able to experience season 1?

Currently, yes.

Season 1 is no longer in the game. Each episode was released every two weeks and were removed 2 or 4 weeks after release (each episode’s story were in sets of two, most often). Exception was the first five (The Lost Shores + Flame and Frost arc) and the Tower of Nightmares arc (lasted about 2 months in total).

Due to the design of how Season 1 was experienced and progressed, it cannot be brought back without a deal of work. Most people will say that most of Season 1 was open world and built for zergs but this isn’t true – the main story was mostly (~80%) instanced, but the instances were designed to be once-per-account more often than not rather than once-per-character; half of the zerging stuff was due to not by design but by the fact that most players were wanting to do that limited-time content; and most of the open world content was no more relevant to the main plot than seeing risen in Kessex Hills or Gendarran is to the human storyline and charr/asura storylines (talked upon and visited once in chapter 3, otherwise irrelevant).

However, Colin Johanson and Bobby Stein – game developer lead and writer lead respectively – have both stated intent on reformating Season 1 into Season 2’s design format to allow it to be permanent and replayable. They have also said, however, that this will not even be possible until Heart of Thorns’ release – next month – so we won’t know if they’ll go through on this for probably 2-3 months and even that would be more of a status update of “we started this” rather than a release date.

I imagine the soonest we’d get Season 1 would be ~June 2016. If they had S1 as a main focus of development, we could see it by February though. But I’m doubtful of that.

For now, all there is in-game is the recap video that you’ll be directed to after completing Victory or Death (final personal story step). But there are many youtube videos that recorded Season 1 content, and the wiki has a good summary.

Eddie Mo.7169:

2) If I never play living world, my game will be a certain way until I play season 2? Then those changes made by season 2 will be permanent and I cannot revert it?

The game is a persistent world. This means that the changes made in the living world will affect everyone. So you’ll be seeing mordrem in the Iron Marches even though you haven’t played Season 2, when mordrem began appearing in the world.

You will never see the game as it originally was, except in the portions that were not yet changed.

In regards to instances, ArenaNet implemented a system for the personal story where if the location has been changed by the Living World then the story instance will show the original location. This is only seen in Lion’s Arch and Fort Concordia currently, and does not affect the one location in Season 2 where such technology would be relevant.

Ehecatl.9172:

I didn’t say the Sylvari can reproduce, the Pale Tree can. The Pale Tree/Blighted Trees are plants that have been corrupted and had their still intact reproductive abilities twisted to mass produce Modrem instead of natural seeds to make more trees.

Sylvari and Mordrem Guard are the ‘fruit’ of the Pale Tree/Blighting Trees, so by your logic, if I’m understanding your logic, they would eventually become their own Pale Tree/Blighting Tree and, in turn, become capable of reproduction – as that’s what fruits effectively are: seeds.

But that would be extremely weird, as it would mean that every one of Mordremoth’s minions could become minion factories if given time.

Which once more makes Mordremoth completely different than the other Elder Dragons – the entire point of my argument for point 1 and 1.5 – for no reason other than narrative drama of ‘player race = dragon minions’ despite the fact that it contradicts everything else (basic minions have less magic put into them thus are weaker and less intelligent – per Magic Sucks PS instance).

Coulter.2315:

But every dragon minion is just an inanimate object given life; hot rocks, corpses, corpses with crystals in them, cold corpses and fruit ^^

Sure there is a corpse motif but given Primordus we know prior sentience is not required – fruit isn’t more odd than rocks (tbh I’d say its less odd).

I’d say it is more odd – and entirely odd – because of the situation of matter quantities and mass. A pear is vastly different not just in shape and mobility to sylvari, but also in size and weight.

Also, Kralkatorrik and Jormag corrupt living beings, not (just) corpses.

But this, once more, doesn’t take into account the crux of my issue.

Why is Mordremoth the oddball Elder Dragon capable of things no other dragon is capable of, breaking every consistency and rule we’ve been established about the Elder Dragons, just for the apparent sake of the plot point of sylvari (players) are dragon minions and are hated by everyone.

It’s as bad as the plots around Scarlet… It’s just another form of the Sue tropes.

That would go against the established concept of the hive mind knowledge between dragons, dragon champions, and minions.

Coulter.2315:

Ah but we heard recently that Mordremoth takes corpses and clones their likeness to make minions with spawning trees (guess whats under the Pale Tree – dead Ronan and family corpses). The Pale Tree has been mashing together the likeness of Ronan and his family and pumping out her “fruit” just as designed.

Right…

But that entirely avoids what I was saying.

Pale Tree = purified Blighting Tree

Blighting Tree = corrupted <insert tree type here>

If the Blighting Trees are corrupted standard fruit trees, then the uncorrupted version of Mordrem Guard (the purified version of them being sylvari) would be fruits. Literal fruits. Things like pears and apples and oranges.

And that makes no sense to me.

BrotherNumsie.8123:

Primordus does corrupt living things. Personal Story -> Whispers Order -> Skritt lesser race storyline. Tybalt pretty much confirms this when talking about the destroyer eggs.

The mentor (doesn’t matter which order you join) only says that as a possibility. As stated in this thread, the possibility was presented when all that was seen coming from the eggs were destroyer crablings. Later on, if you rescue skritt, you see destroyer trolls and harpies coming from eggs, debunking the theory of a corrupted pregnant being and confirming the second theory the mentors bring up: a new type of minion.

Though this isn’t to say that Primordus cannot corrupt living beings. And no one, I believe, ever said he couldn’t. It was actually confirmed in an interview with GuildMag last year that 1) Primordus can indeed corrupt living beings and 2) we have not seen a confirmable case of this in-game. Though the description does match the visual effects of the grawl shaman in the volcanic fractal.

Ranael.6423:

I think Mordremoth has corrupted seeds (the one of Ronan’s cave) which are able to give life to Mordrem.

As said, no other dragon’s champions are capable of taking a piece of themselves to create new minions, nor are they capable of producing minions via sexual reproduction or other similar methods. All champions create minions in similar manners – by corrupting pre-existing materials (often bodies – be it living or dead).

Ranael.6423:

At the beginning of HOT, the only ones who are naming them as dragon minions are the Pact Soldiers who see many of their sylvari comrades turn against us.

Mordrem Researcher Eullo, from the mordrem invasions, who wasn’t present for the sylvari mass corruption, knows the sylvari’s truth.

Ranael.6423:

Some may have told things like “My master calls… death to the Pact”. So far, the news of this event have not spread to the east, but it will eventually and then those who are already angry at the plant race will be ready to hate them and convince those who were just wondering.

Why trust dragon minions? A plant-corrupting dragon corrupting plants isn’t exactly odd. Why would it be “sylvari are dragon minions!” and not “sylvari are vulnerable to Mordremoth!”?

That’s my main question. No one has provided a sufficient possibility, IMO.

Ranael.6423:

I don’t see the problem of not getting used to horror.

Not so much ‘not getting used to horror’ so much as ‘why is Anet treating this as something special and unique to Mordremoth, and not something that every dragon has done’.

BrotherNumsie.8123:

I think the one thing everyone forgets is that most of the lore information we receive is through the characters themselves in the game.

Most of what I present in this thread is either from devs or observations from the game rather than dialogues in the game.

The only dialogues in the game referred to are examples of what’s wrong (e.g., people reacting to sylvari being dragon minions).

Vesuvius.9874:

Connection1 : Scarlet, a sylvari, talked about hearing voices in her head, blew up LA and woke up Mordremoth.
Connection 2: Aerin, a sylvari, goes crazy after Mordremoth wakes up, destroys the Zephyrite fleet.
Connection 3: A lot of sylvari turn against the Pact after the Pact decides to take on Mordremoth.

How are you still confused about why people think sylvari are dragon minions?

Because a plant-corrupting dragon corrupting plant people isn’t the first thought that goes into people’s minds. The first thought is that a plant-corrupting dragon is the origin of the plant people.

Let me give you a similar situation:

Connection 1: Svanir goes mad and begins killing people, feeding magic to Jormag.
Connection 2: After Svanir’s death, a bunch of norn hear whispers and follow their instructions, feeding Jormag via Drakkar.
Connection 3: After Jormag’s awake, a huge number of norn have taken up Jormag as their totem Spirit of the Wild. These norn begin looking like standard norn, but over time their appearance turn into very clear dragon minions.

Pretty much exact same situation between norn/Jormag and sylvari/Mordremoth to the standard Tyrian – even to the Pact. So clearly, norn are icebrood lying in waiting, and Jormag’s waiting for the perfect time to call upon all of his hidden minions.

Boy, Wild-Eye Miller would have a field day with that.

glehmann.9586:

How about the Destroyer Queen? It lays eggs, and since the destroyers are literally just animated stone and magma, those eggs are literally just parts of itself that is is separating and growing into new minions.

We actually never see how those eggs are formed. They’re just placed there. The Queen never forms eggs while fighting her.

For all we know, the eggs were formed in lava pits like standard destroyers, and placed elsewhere by the Queen to trick skritt.

glehmann.9586:

Maybe there’s no pre-corruption form and they are literally plant seeds that he grew from his own plant-like body, the same way the wiki describes destroyers as being “forged from the molten heart of [Primordus]”.

That wiki quote is metaphorical. So that comparison would still make Mordremoth unique.

Serophous.9085:

When the event took place, all we were told was “If you choose Evon, God Fractal. Choose Kiel, find out why the reactor exploded.” That was it. There was no mention of the Dragons at all.

But now after seeing the result, we can figure Anet was going to tie it to the dragons no matter what, as we saw with the reactor and Scarlet.

So it basically turned to “great, we know about laylines, and not about what happened with the Gods.” And the information seemed pointless.

Too be fair, this decision probably DID guide how the rest of the story turned out, with Scarlet’s machine dealing with leyline power, finding her first notes and stuff talking about leylines, etc. If the other had won, we may be dealing with more god stuff like temples or artifacts.

Eh… both were dealing with the nature of magic. War over gifting magic vs magical explosion caused by messing with magic.

Most likely both would have led to the same Season 1-related revelation: ley lines. It was just a matter of what else we’d learn.

We were told what would have happened if Evon won in regards to Season 1 – LA would be better defended (fewer casualties), but still destroyed. Though there’d also be a difference in the interactions of Evon and Ellen – for example, the datamined voice overs for Evon’s victory showed Ellen giving up being a Lionguard and going full on pirate with the two actually making amends. And a dev hinted that Evon’s interest in the fractal was potentially religious related.

But we’re getting off-topic now.

Ehecatl.9172:

I feel you’re overlooking a big detail that separates Modremoth from the other dragons.

Modremoth’s minions are still alive. Up until now we’ve had Zhaitan who mostly corrupts dead things (No functional genitals), Jormag who corrupts the living and turns them into animated ice (No genitals), Kraalkatorrik who corrupts the living by turning them into crystal (No genitals), Primordus who corrupts inanimate objects (No genitals), and Bubbles who corrupts water (No genitals, just tentacles).

Modremoth corrupts the vegetation and twists it to his needs, but the corruption process doesn’t render the plant unable to reproduce the way the other dragons’ corruption does. He then uses the plant’s natural ability to reproduce to spawn more minions who are born corrupted by his influence. Modremoth’s minions are different than the other dragons’ because he is the only elder dragon that let’s his minions keep their reproductive capabilities after being corrupted so he can exploit it.

Sylvari have no internal sexual organs, as stated in Season 2. It’s been known since the sylvari redesigned reveal aka “sylvari week” before launch that sylvari could do the deed but they were 100% sterile.

The other dragon minions may have genitals, but being corpses, crystals, and ice would be similarly incapable of sexual reproduction.

Mordrem are also incapable of sexual reproduction. Or at least sylvari are.

This is probably the one similarity between sylvari and other dragon minions, in all honesty.

Ehecatl.9172:

I’m sure SOME soldiers wouldn’t believe it, but I doubt absolutely no one would. In fact from the perspective of a normal Tyrian it explains a lot.

But Tyrians are also used to dragon minions spouting out constant lies.

Sure, some might believe it. But the vast majority? I doubt it.

And for the Priory to specifically research sylvari knowing they’re mordrem (See Mordrem Researcher Eullo from mordrem invasions)? Or having full on groups calling out sylvari as monsters (HoT trailer)? Seems a bit far fetched unless that ends up being an isolated case and not the norm.

Calcifire.1864:

“Zhaitan will reunite you with your lost loved ones!”

Technically, that isn’t a lie. Zhaitan DID reunite them with lost loved ones, in a fashion.

it’s twisted, and obviously not a good thing for anyone who isn’t a risen, but it’s not an outright lie.

who knows, maybe the risen don’t see themselves as risen? maybe they see themselves and other risen as regular people still? maybe to them, orr is still in it’s heyday rather than the barnacle encrusted mess it is?

Was an example. But let’s use other phrases:

“Zhaitan eats gods!” – never happened

“I see in your heart that you have lost someone to Zhaitan. Someone named… Sieran. She is waiting for you now, beneath the dragon’s wings…” – sylvari couldn’t become risen, thus untrue

“The Mists are filled with lies. Zhaitan is our only chance at immortality. Serve him!” – undeath isn’t really immortality, and it’s known that there’s methods of longevity via more ‘normal’ magic (see Livia)

Main point: risen lied, a LOT. They used psychological warfare, a LOT. So do Icebrood/Sons of Svanir. So why would veterans used to this believe an obvious dragon minion (Mordrem Guard) to tell the untainted truth?

djsarcher.9263:

The Pale Tree being influenced and cultivated from seed by Ronan & Ventari, are we to assume that in the process, whether by Ventari’s magic or something else, they were able to cleanse the corruption from the tree while in seed form. Thus leading to sylvari being different to their corrupted counterparts, but similar in makeup and so vulnerable to the call? Is Mordremoth is fighting against the protective magic infused into the Sylvari by Ventari?

It would certainly make more sense if the intention of whats been said is that Mordremoth intended for the seeds to become Blighting trees, and therefore Mordrem Guard being the dragon minions, not sylvari themselves.

The Pale Tree and sylvari being ‘cleansed’ (or whatever term you wish to use) is not really questioned. Though I doubt it was Ventari and Ronan’s involvement given Malyck.

But take a look at Glint. She was still a dragon minion in everything but being less malevolent looking (bright blue instead of dark purple crystals; clear sky-based magic instead of constant thunderstorm; etc.) and still functioned like a dragon minion (still consumed magic). By comparison, one would expect the Pale Tree to be the same.

Last we heard was that they retreated to the Edge of the Mists after the Battle for LA, with Mai Trin as their ultimate leader now, and she’s consolidating her forces for… something unknown to us.

Similar situations for the Motlen Alliance and Toxic Alliance. Their leaders – identities unknown to both player and character – still live and their forces remain sizeable. They cannot return to their former groups under penalty of death (at least for Flame Legion and Krait), and in the case of the latter (Toxic Alliance) they aren’t even in their mind due to some hoohaa that Scarlet did (and why they glow bright green). So for now they’re skulking about somewhere waiting for their next chance at life.

Anet has promised a return of all three in the future.

Eirdyne.9843:

One possibility that has bumped around in my mind for some time has been that Abbadon is really the only conscious version of the dragons. Just as the Elder Dragons have Lieutenants the Elder Dragons themselves are basically zombies with no real consciousness of their own besides their biological imperatives to consume magic.

Edge of Destiny debunks this as Kralkatorrik is very much his own consciousness.

Also, the gods are unrelated to the dragons as the dragons have been on Tyria for over 11,000 years (with hints that they could be 30,000+ years old) while the gods seem to have only appeared on Tyria about 3,000 years ago.

Eirdyne.9843:

While they slumber they degrade in power till they transform into the Gods.

The gods and the dragons are 100% confirmed to be different entities from each other, and rivaling.

Aside from the fact that the god-to-dragon connection theory doesn’t line up past the initial 2-3 dragons, and becomes highly convoluted afterwards, it has even become so common as to get a reference in-game which denotes the very same conclusion: in the end, there is no feasible way to argue a connection between the two.

And this ignores the fact that we know at least half of the gods did not come from Tyria (Dwayna, Melandru, and Balthazar being said non-natives – two of which are the 2-3 dragon-to-god easy connections, Melandru to Mordremoth and Balthazar to Primordus). But Grenth is stated to be the first Tyrian-born god, indicating that Abaddon, Dhuum, and Lyssa also all came from another world (though it should be noted that while the origins of any god beyond Grenth and Kormir is unknown to players, Lyssa’s origins is explicitly stated to be unknown to Tyrians).

Killyox.3950:

Then dragons go to sleep for around 25000 years again until next cycle.

Your gap is too huge.

Approximately 10,000 BE – 11,325 years prior to GW2’s start – is the date the Durmand Priory attests to being the previous dragonrise.

Though various bits of evidence here and there attest to the previous dragonrise being in 3,000-1,000 BE.

Killyox.3950:

Kralkatorrik’s minion was Glint. She simply betrayed him in the end

While this is not false, this also doesn’t cover what I mean.

Glint hid the races from the Elder Dragons. This means that she was both given free will and betrayed Kralkatorrik before it went to sleep.

So by logic, Kralkatorrik should have left a different dragon champion around to wake him up on time.

Most likely scenario is that Kralk did just that, but Glint killed said champion at some point, leaving him without a champion to wake him up.

Killyox.3950:

Also Elder Dragons are not a race. All of the are different. More anything they are forces of nature made manifest.

The origins of the Elder Dragons have yet to be seen.

The comparison to forces of nature, oft used by Anet, has also been stated to be “Tyrian’s view of the Elder Dragons” and as such aren’t actually accurate.

After all, Elder Dragons are intelligent and malicious. Forces of nature are neither.

Coulter.2315:

I mainly thought that the very act of corruption gave the tree the spawning ability (not necessary that the target tree had the spawning ability before the corruption), so there would be no spawned Sylvari from the uncorrupted version of a spawning tree.

Hmmm….

Then the ‘uncorrupted sylvari’ would, in fact, be literal fruit by that argument.

Kind of hard seeing a pear being corrupted into a humanoid shape.

Coulter.2315:

Yer the Dragon lore does seem to be on the trot a lot – I’m very excited to have the Mursaat back (just need the true Gods too and we’ll be back on track). Its fun trying to fit a pattern to what they give us though.

Well, it’s not confirmed they’re mursaat yet.

kolompi.1287:

I’m glad that you finally realized that Arenanet’s storytelling has bigger plot holes than swiss cheese.

The sad thing is that it didn’t always have this. It wasn’t until Scarlet Briar’s introduction that the swiss cheese began to form. And I realized this from the get-go.

kolompi.1287:

They’ve been operating with plot holes and a “lore” that is almost complete chaos if you try to look at it with the GW1 lore as a starting point.

Not really. In GW1, it was scattered, but not full of plot holes and chaos.

Unless you refer to that scatteredness as “chaos”.

Serophous.9085:

First off, Anet can’t explain everything going on in the world all at once, or else you’ll be sitting in front of a screen watching cutscene after cutscene to get caught up, so some things you have to assume.

I don’t expect them to explain everything.

I do, however, expect them to explain why their major selling point in the plot is such a big deal.

Particularly, points 2 and 3.

Points 1 and 1.5 I expect to be explained in HoT itself.

Serophous.9085:

As for other people knowing the sylvari have turned? Well, what makes you think it was only the Pact Sylvari that turned? Some Sylvari around the world most likely turned as well and had to be cut down.

Even so, everyone who has heard news of things would know that Mordremoth’s reach is as far as the Iron Marches by now. Would it really be so surprising if sylvari – plant creatures – get corrupted by a plant-“corrupting” (by all first-look appearances at least) dragon within that distance?

It’s like people being shocked and surprised that a corpse in Sparkfly Fen gets turned into a risen.

It’s not so much “who sees sylvari become Mordrem Guard” so much as “why do people equate sylvari becoming Mordrem Guard with ‘sylvari are dragon minions’” or “why do people know sylvari are dragon minions.”

Serophous.9085:

Essentially we would have to look to some time or event that could’ve given clues about the dragons, if only we were given the chance…

OH YEAH! If Evon had won we’d get a fractal about the Gods and Abaddon! Somehow we may have gotten some dragon knowledge, since I doubt Scarlet was alive back then to interfere.

I’ve seen this claim before.

But honestly, why would an event that deals with a war between the gods – and was nowhere near any sleeping dragon – deal with the Elder Dragons any more than the explosion of a reactor that utilized dragon energy?

We actually did learn a tiny bit of Elder Dragon lore from that fractal, particularly that it doesn’t mix well with other forms of magic such as chaos magic.

There might have been no Scarlet, but it would be completely foolish to expect Elder Dragon lore. Not everything relates to the Elder Dragon (or that’s how it should be…).

It would require too much work to separate Ebonhawke as its own zone, which would also entail changing a bunch of dialogues, needing to make it feel more vibrant to fit other cities, and would be too huge of a mess when dealing with the personal story – the destruction and reconstruction of LA was a huge enough mess with the PS, I doubt Anet wants to do the same elsewhere anytime soon.

Caithe might not have lied. The Shadow of the Dream was within the Dream, which is the protection against sylvari.

It’s unclear if the Shadow of the Dragon in the Dream was a mordrem, or if the Shadow of the Dragon we see in Tyria was just Mordremoth copying that Dream’s recreation of a dragon to suit his means of psychological warfare (something we know many ED love doing).

In turn, since we don’t know if that Dream’s Shadow of the Dragon was part of Nightmare, Dream, or Mordremoth, we don’t know if those hounds were tied to Nightmare or Mordremoth. And we certainly don’t know if Caithe knew (she knew sylvari origins, but there’s no way should could have known that the Shadow of the Dragon would become/was Mordremoth’s champion without being told herself).

Careful wording there, SkullMuffinz.

They are not “merely” echoes, which means that they are – but they’re uncommon kinds of echoes. They’re not like what you’d see of Burian and Mordakai in Battle for Khylo PvP map, which stand there looking pretty – and they’re a bit more than the Turai echo in Episode 8 (which is where drax is wrong). They interact with you, they talk, but they’re not the original nor are they as good as the original. They’re still a copy – just an advanced copy.

Think of the Stronghold heroes. They seem to be effectively the same. They talk, they move, they react, they think, but they’re still just copies. Echoes.

Coulter.2315:

Lava pools don’t naturally pop out lava trolls in the same way trees don’t naturally spawn people but due to dragon corruption they do.

While destroyers are formed in lava pools, it’s not the lava pool but nearby champions (in both cases we’ve seen this – The Great Destroyer and the Destroyer of Life) that form the destroyers.

Coulter.2315:

The Pale Tree though KNOWS what it is and has thrown in a few difficulties to unravel – is it possible that she has cut herself off from the true hive mind system in fear one day she will be reclaimed (thats why Sylvari feed into her but she doesn’t control all of them)?

Wouldn’t explain why Malyck has no dream – no mental connection to anything at all. And wouldn’t explain why the Dream/Nightmare is said to be the protection against Mordremoth.

Coulter.2315:

Krak also is odd does he resurrect bodies or just grow crystals all through their veins and neural network to wield them like puppets on crystal strings. Because if its the crystal puppet he isn’t “corrupting” them just using them as a vehicle – again this plays into the dragons’ love of living forms (again ignoring easy access to enemy models for the devs).

Given the models, it seems that while icebrood form ice on the outside and the skin/hair/muscle/tendons slowly turn to ice to leave nothing but ice and bones (e.g., icebrood colossus), branded are the opposite and immediate – the inside crystallizing, leaving nothing but crystal and skin (and in concept art, bone). I wouldn’t say that’s puppeting since as shown in Edge of Destiny the sapient ones (champions) still retain their old knowledge.

glehmann.9586:

The fact that sylvari are immune to dragon corruption strongly implies that they are already corrupted themselves. You don’t see an “uncorrupted” state because the corruption’s been built into them from the beginning, all the way back to at least the Pale Tree’s seed. If you want to see an uncorrupted state you’d have to go back to before Mordremoth created those seeds.

You missed it entirely.

I never questioned sylvari being corrupted. But what’s the form before sylvari/Pale Tree? That’s what I was saying – there’s nothing, so we’ve been indicated. Particularly for sylvari.

No other champion just plucks a piece of their body and it transforms and grows into a dragon minion. Only the Blighting Trees/Pale Tree(s) do this.

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

I agree with you on many of your points except Mordy’s “Corruption”. Your example of destroyers is apt: Primordus corrupts rock and stone to become destroyers. These things were not ‘alive’ before and now they’ve been animated.

I think you overlook what exactly a plant is. Plants begin as seeds that then grow due to absorbing nutrients and sunlight and water. In fact, a plant physically is its nutrients and other sources of energy because you literally cannot create matter out of nothing. The nutrients provide energy and building blocks for the plant. So our anomalous friend Mordremoth must, in some sense, corrupt these building blocks and the corruption comes out as a plant. In the same way we can digest plant matter to maintain our human anatomy, so too can Mordy take the nutrients and building blocks of soil and organic matter and grow its corrupted plant matter.

That’s the only way it makes sense, to be honest.

Curious take. Thanks.

Kossage.9072:

The mass used for the bodies of the Mordrem clones must be coming from somewhere. Because we see the Mordrem have some plant-like characteristics (e.g. the flowers that grow out of Mordrem wolves), it would seem that this plant-like matter is what Mordremoth has corrupted and has twisted to create these monstrosities. He just happens to take the “easy” way out by modelling his plant monsters on the bodies (templates) of existing races/creatures and making his creations into mockeries of them, which seems in line with other Elder Dragons to me.

This works for the Mordrem Wolf and Mordrem Troll, but not the Mordrem Guard which are grown from the Blighting Trees – or, in turn, sylvari grown from the Pale Trees.

Kossage.9072:

I feel a question should be asked here. Have we ever seen how the offspring of freed dragon champions have behaved psychologically before sylvari?

Gleam in Eye of the North, though he just stood around being defended by destroyers.

It’s likely that the Crystal Guardians and Crystal Spiders in Glint’s lair were her ‘corruptions’ of sand or the like though, but they also give no personality traits – they defend her like the Forgotten do.

Kossage.9072:

It appears that the Pale Tree, and likely the other seeds, had been purged from dragon corruption, so they essentially were like Glint: freed dragon minions. The Pale Tree’s “children” were born without dragon minion mentality but could be “recorrupted” as seen by sylvari transformation into Mordrem Guard. Perhaps the lack of “hive mind” and the lack of needing to feed on magic are the results of the sylvari not being corrupted dragon minions per se and hence not needing to fit the criteria?

If they’re like Glint, then like Glint they should still consume magic. No?

Kossage.9072:

As for the “nigh mindlessness” of other dragon minion grunts, perhaps Mordremoth’s modus operandi is different? He is the Dragon of Plants AND Mind after all, so it would make sense for him to not only try to break the barriers of the mind but also keep more intelligent minions than other EDs do. He still has the more beastly Mordrem as the grunts of his army, but the Mordrem Guard are elites, and the Mordrem Guard Commanders are the generals. It’s possible that he might be willing to sacrifice a bit of the magic he’d nommed to keep such intelligent minions around since the pros of the upkeep outweigh the cons, considering how cunning and deadly the Mordrem Guard can be.

By that argument, the Pale Tree is losing a lot of magic by creating constant smart sylvari.

Kossage.9072:

That’s something I look forward to finding out too. I’d imagine the writers have thought of something that will make sense lore-wise once we experience the story. So far all we’ve seen have been snippets in which the Pact are distrustful of sylvari after seeing so many sylvari turning against them out of the blue, but I haven’t noticed any indication that they’ve learned that the sylvari are actually supposed to be Mordremoth’s minions.

It’s already been shown in-game that sylvari are dragon minions and that this is known to at least the sylvari. During the Mordrem Invasions, the Mordrem Researcher in Brisban, Eullo, had dialogue talking about being near the sylvari there to study Mordremoth and his affects on his minions – but note that no change has affected them.

So it’s already out there. It’s already known.

But why?

Kossage.9072:

But with sylvari it’s different. Let’s say you see a sylvari next to you with an agonized look on their face, maybe even mumbling to themselves. Perhaps this sylvari is just stressed by the horrors they have witnessed in war (a reasonable deduction)…or maybe they’re slowly succumbing to an Elder Dragon’s mental siren song and can stab you in the back when you least expect it?

This uncertainty element is what the horror comment by Leah likely meant. Because Mordremoth can keep calling a sylvari again and again until even a strong-willed sylvari’s mind cracks, there’s really no telling when the sylvari loses control of themselves and turns, and the change isn’t even physical at first so there are no outward symptoms to look out for. Essentially every scared/confused/stoic/overly emotional sylvari will now be viewed as a potential threat after the Pact sees more and more of them turning, so paranoia will run rampant. Fear is the mind killer, and minds that are afraid are that much easier to influence…

Hmmm, I guess…

Finally got some real time to go through the responses in this thread…

Galen Grey.4709:

Like there is nothing that suggests “corruption” works the same way between dragons. In fact I’d say it doesnt really seem to be the case. Like Zaithan corrupts the dead, while kralkatorrik corrupted the living. Seems more like each dragon does its thing to corrupt and create minions. Modremoth being the dragon of nature and by extension life it seems to like it make sense it would birth its minions. As for whats actually being corrupted, it may as well be nature itself. Its not like trees in a untouch, natural state would birth sylvari or other modrem creates. That they’re now doing this may very well be the result of the dragon corruption.

You’re not entirely true. Throughout the game, while corpses are the “main” thing that Zhaitan corrupts we see him corrupting living beings, plants, ground, air, and water. Kralkatorrik is similar in that he corrupted the land, air, and living beings. Jormag’s been shown to corrupt ice, living beings, and even corpses. Primordus has been known to corrupt land and fire, but is told to be capable of corrupting living beings too.

By all indication, all dragons are capable of corrupting the same ‘materials’ or ‘subjects’, but their corruption takes a different form, and they corrupt a specific type of subject more than others (e.g., Zhaitan with corpses).

As for trees untouched giving birth to plant creature – maybe not in that specific context, but we do have non-mordrem plant creatures seen throughout GW1 of various kinds and sizes, and in GW2 we have the treants (which are mobile trees).

Galen Grey.4709:

Now why dont they all serve him? well dragon influence doesnt seem to be absolute, you need to kinda let that influence in before it takes over. That how it was described in the latest POI but it isnt completely new either.
In: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragonspawn it is stated that: His power infused them, tempted them. which against seems to indicate that dragon corruption is kinda like the dark side. Its alluring and it may be hard to avoid it but ultimately you need to be the one to accept it.

Jormag’s been stated as unique by a few NPCs such as Khrigar Ripjaw in that Jormag and icebrood do not forcibly corrupt but ‘convince’ people to join him willingly and corrupts those willing converts – this is an indirect explanation for why Jora was able to avoid corruption, but excluding Mordremoth, Jormag is the only dragon to do such. In the case of the Dragonspawn, he was a mesmer that used mental manipulation to trick people via compulsion to accept the gift (that compulsion being the ‘temptation’).

It should be noted that the Sons of Svanir who channel Jormag’s powers into other break Jormag’s rule of ‘willing converts only’ and even that rule, as shown by the Dragonspawn, is flimsy at best.

But sylvari refusing Mordremoth’s call isn’t a case of concern here. It’s everyone’s reaction to this sudden revelation that by all logical reasoning shouldn’t be known to anyone but a handful.

Galen Grey.4709:

So its not like Sylvari are dragon minions that dont behave like dragon minions but rather they’re just not imprinted yet.

I think you misunderstood me. It’s not sylvari behavior. It’s sylvari function.

Their biological function, not their personality behavior.

Galen Grey.4709:

as for how does everyone know that the sylvari are dragon minions, it may not have happened on screen but people talk. I mean consider you’re in a fleet and suddenly a large number of a certain group of people start sabotaging everything. Naturally you’ll distrust even the one who didnt take part in the sabotage but who belong to that group.

So there was a mass spread of corruption. But that wouldn’t explain why everyone is going “they belong to the dragon now, they cannot be trusted!”

Instead they should be going “they can be easily corrupted by Mordremoth, but their physical appearance does change over time (into the Mordrem Guard appearance) when this happens!”

It would be as if a whole number of norn suddenly go berserk and a week later those berserked norn have ice coating their skin. They got corrupted into icebrood. Does this mean that every norn was created by Jormag and will turn into an icebrood at any moment? kitten NO!

Galen Grey.4709:

Non sylvari hear it as screeching and other animalistic noises but the slyvari hear it and understand it. Essentially whats understandably freaky is a slyvari might turn at anytime and you’d only realize once their dagger as a few inches embedded in you… if thats not nerve wrecking not sure what is.

Precisely. So until sylvari start yapping “oh, hey, buddy I’ve been with in the Pact for a couple years, apparently my race are born dragon minions… yeah” no non-sylvari would know that they can understand Mordremoth. They’d just assume Mordremoth’s the only ED to be capable of corrupting sylvari and that the Mordrem Guard who shout “sylvari are born dragon minions!” are liars just like the risen who shouted “Zhaitan will reunite you with your lost loved ones!”

To non-sylvari, it’s the same situation as before.

Galen Grey.4709:

well fighting family and friends is never fun but once again its different in that in other cases we had closure so to speak… my friend died before being bought back to life and i have to fight him. My friend got engulfed in crystal before he turning against me. In each case you’re seeing them fall and you know they’re lost before you need to raise your arms against them. No such luck with turned slyvari, its like if your best friend suddenly tries to kill you, it takes a while before you can process that and I can see it as a little more freaky than what we had before.

It’s not exactly clear with icebrood either… Sometimes they’re encased in ice, other times they’re hearing whispers in their head by champions such as Drakkar and the Dragonspawn.

Donari.5237:

About the growing vs corrupting:

I think it’s more that Mordremoth corrupts a plant that then bears corrupted fruit, in this case minions. Remember, a Destroyer Queen was able to lay eggs that became more destroyers (if you study the Skritt in Harathi, you encounter this in your PS). The theory was that she had the eggs ready at the time she became corrupted.

Coulter.2315:

I think your logic falls down when you look at Primordus – you say that he corrupts lava and rocks but don’t believe that Mordremoth isn’t corrupting vegetation.

Eg. Primordus manipulates a lava pool to spawn Destroyers (as we have seen), Mordremoth corrupts a plant to spawn Mordrem.

On the tree part: Sounds plausible, but then what’s the non-corrupted version of these Blighting Trees/Pale Trees? Wouldn’t they spawn plant creatures of some sort too (perhaps the origins of the Treants or other GW1 plant creatures)?

I’ll admit, I didn’t think of this as I was thinking “they’re all equally mordrem and mordrem could be formed without the tree producing them”.

But that doesn’t really answer the situation of what sylvari are pre-corruption. No other dragon’s champions are capable of taking a piece of themselves and that piece grows into a dragon minion.

Re: Destroyer Queen – it was just one of two possibilities presented when all we saw were crablings spawning from eggs. If you choose to rescue the trapped skritt, you’ll see trolls and harpies forming from those eggs too, which shows that it’s not a case of pregnant creature being corrupted.

Coulter.2315:

We also don’t know that Mordremoth is physically attached to every one of his vines.

Depending on what you’re talking about when saying vines, we know he isn’t. The only ones Taimi ever speculated (note, it was a speculation and not fact) being Mordremoth were those going after the waypoints directly – the rest she speculated being actual separate minions and ‘corruption’.

Iason Evan.3806:

How many times do ArenaNet have to miss the mark with story beats and lore though before you realize it will always be a convoluted mess of contradictions and retcons?

That’s actually why I made this thread…

Iason Evan.3806:

You seem just as surprised that ArenaNet botched this as some of those Veteran Pact officers are that the Sylvari are being corrupted.

No surprise, actually. Just confusion as to why they’re promoting this as “oh my such newness! Drama! Spectatularity!” etc. etc.

Vayne.8563:

As to whether or not Jormag is the dragon of life, we’ll have to disagree on that. Primordus animates stone. He creates something more akin to elemental forces than life. And jungles are life. Where as Kralkatorrik is associated with crystal, and Jormag is associated with ice and cold and frost, and Primordus is associated with fire and lava, you know, elemental forces, the only dragon we know of that associates with life is Primordus. And yes, plants are life. lol

Eh, you got your naming a bit mixed up.

Primordus animates stone was my exact basis of the statement. Take a look at ancient myths that describe the creation of man. Many of them are some form of “a god/God shaped clay into the shape of a man and breathed life into it”. Well, Primordus is doing the same – shaping rock and fire into the shape of a creature and ‘breathing life’ into it. Just without free will and, sans champions per EotN, mindless.

Plants are living, but not the force of life, and that wouldn’t make Mordremoth the “dragon of life”.

Shiren.9532:

I don’t understand why sylvari are refered to as corrupted. Are destroyers corrupted? Sylvari originate from Mordremoth, they belong to it. It’s not the same as a human becoming a risen or branded or a norn becoming icebrood – Mordremoth is uniquely connected to sylvari. If anything, sylvari are corrupted by whatever gives them free will from Mordremoth and when they hear its call and serve it, they are breaking free from their corruption.

Destroyers are indeed corrupted, just not from living beings.

Sylvari and mordrem are the question that begs answering to me. Which was why I mentioned it.

Shiren.9532:

I don’t think there are set rules for how dragon minions are supposed to behave. Similarities between known dragons doesn’t guarantee those similarities will exist for all dragons.

If it works for 4.5 of the dragon minions (even mordrem attend to these similarities – yet sylvari do not), then why wouldn’t it fit for that last .5?

As said, there’s a distinct difference between mordrem and sylvari just as much as sylvari and other dragon minions – but most of these differences do not exist between mordrem and other dragon minions. The only real difference between non-sylvari mordrem and other dragon minions is that mordrem are grown.

Shiren.9532:

I’m unclear on how the hive mind thing works, is it lore that an asura that dies in battle in Lion’s Arch and comes back as risen 10 minutes later suddenly knows everything all other servants of Zhaitan know? That seems a bit silly. Can Zhaitan speak to an asuran risen in Lion’s Arch from the moment is rises?

The former’s unknown, but the latter is certainly implied and is definite for Kralkatorrik to branded, and Dragonspawn & Jormag to icebrood, Mordremoth to mordrem, and Great Destroyer to destroyers.

This still differs from the Dream, IMO, because there’s still a back-and-forth between dragon/dragon champion and minion, but no back and forth between sylvari and Dream/Pale Tree.

Shiren.9532:

The bit about dragon minions consuming magic, I was under the impression this is meant to be them feeding their ED, not specifically that they themselves need to or want to consume magic. This would explain why sylvari themselves can be magical beings but don’t feed on magic, while Mordrem Guard (confirmed to serve the dragon) take an interest in it.

Glint consumed magic for herself.

Shiren.9532:

While I don’t think any of the biconics or Caithe will spread the word about the sylvari origins, after the cut scene takes place (and sylvari turn on the Pact, destroying their fleet and killing many) I doubt it would take long for word to reach the rest of Pact Tyria, especially in a world where waypoints are a thing. Warning the rest of Tyria of the sylvari’s betrayal would be the biggest priority. It’s also possible the sylvari that responded to Mordremoth’s call reach beyond the Pact front line and even sylvari in the rest of Tyria began to serve the dragon. HoT might launch with sylvari attacking the three Orders, the racial capitals and elsewhere.

But that’s the thing.

How does the Pact know the sylvari’s origins.

All they know is that sylvari got corrupted in large numbers. Mordrem Guard would spout it, but why would the Pact – used to hearing the blatant lies of the risen – believe these obviously visually changed dragon minions?

The only way they’d know is if the surviving sylvari told them. But why would they? And furthermore, why would the Pact believe a sylvari saying the same things as the corrupted sylvari – I for one would just think that sylvari to be corrupted itself instead and trying to sow distrust amongst my fellow forces.

There is no reason for anyone – Pact or otherwise – to know or at least believe the tale of “sylvari were born dragon minions.”

Even upon seeing Blighting Trees, they could – and IMO logically should – just conclude “the Pale Tree is not unique, and its siblings fell to Mordremoth.”

Shiren.9532:

I’m still unclear on what Mordrem Guard are. Are they the same physical body of a regular sylvari, warped by Mordremoth to become something more powerful? Or are they replicas of a sylvari corpse, given their knowledge and memories with the sole purpose to serve Mordremoth?

Based on the article and PoI, both.

Vayne.8563:

First, you’re acting like we know everything there is to know about dragons. We really don’t.

I’m not at all. But the very core of the Elder Dragons ever since The Movement of the World has been, summarized, ‘they corrupt and twist everything they can and destroy the rest.’

But Mordremoth doesn’t corrupt so much as grows. This is different and where I’m coming from. He’s breaking the conformity of the other dragons – even the DSD per the Movement – and for no apparent reason other than to explain why the sylvari are dragon minions and making that reveal so revealing.

We don’t know everything about the Elder Dragons, but since day one the very core of the ED is being broken by Mordremoth and Mordremoth alone.

Vayne.8563:

However, if any dragon is going to be able to make things live, wouldn’t it be the jungle dragon. The dragon of life. I mean Zhaitan was the undead dragon. He corrupted corpses.

Zhaitan corrupted corpses, living beings, land, plants, air, and water. Corpses was just the most common.

And Mordremoth is NOT the dragon of life – he’s the dragon of plant and mind. Huge difference.

Vayne.8563:

The destroyers aren’t corrupted anything as far as I know.

They are – they’re formed of twisted rock and lava (see Movement of the World link above).

Taking standard rock and twisting it and ‘breathing life’.

Primordus is more of a ‘dragon of life’ than Mordremoth – by giving mindless life to stone.

draxynnic.3719:

To play devil’s advocate (pretty close to literally…), one of the flaws in the argument that Abaddon couldn’t have been looking to strengthen Tyria against the dragons when he unlocked the Bloodstones because he then started smashing those defenses in the leadup to GW1 is because by the time Abaddon started influencing Tyria again after his imprisonment, he was literally insane. His actions after imprisonment can’t really be taken as an indication of his motives before the War of the Gods.

Nor would I.

I took his actions before imprisonment – the unleashing of magic itself – which is the very act of removing the defenses.

I don’t really see the acts of the Jade Wind, Searing, or Cataclysm – or even Nightfall – as directed against or for the Elder Dragons. GW1 makes it pretty clear to me that the Searing was just a means to make way to cause the Cataclysm, which seems first and foremost an act of revenge no different than defiling the Plaza of the Five Gods in Gandara and the temple of Lyssa in Vabbi that Varesh did for the rituals. The Jade Wind I don’t think Abaddon had any intention of doing – or Shiro for that matter – as it was caused upon Shiro’s death.

The Affliction is stated to have been causing an imbalance of souls in the world causing more problems than what was obvious. It seems like it was an attempt to cause Nightfall in Cantha rather than in Elona. And similarly for opening the Door of Komalie given that The Fury was waiting patiently for it to open for some time (per NPC dialogue in the Foundry of Failed Creations).

Every action he did that led up to and was part of GW1 after his imprisonment had a clear sign of three things:

1) Revenge against the Five Gods
2) Freedom from the Realm of Torment
3) Conquest of Tyria

But his actions before his fall? That’s where the focus should be.

draxynnic.3719:

What’s possible is that Abaddon recognised that magic levels were dangerously low and needed to be increased to prevent the death of Tyria, even if that risked waking the dragons.

That’s a good interpretation that labels him as a good guy. But it’s not exactly clear that he is – some of the Asian-released lore for Nightfall indicates that he had turned hostile even before the gift of magic for unspecified reasons and wanted to rule Tyria alone.

Kalavier.1097:

My headcanon however, is that what actually happened was a combo. All three mentors being there and fighting the Risen off.

So is mine, since other PS story lines are proven canon even if you weren’t there.

But she outright states – when asked to clarify – what she meant by “five versus six” and she stated five races that survived the Elder Dragons.

Tim.6450:

Well one thing that can be said is that with zhaitan , it corrupted a dead person, but with mordremoth it corrupsa living one which is a huge difference. Also the physical changes are optional (not sure), unlike zhaitan. So I think it will not be hate but more paranoia: any sylvari can at any moment become a mordrem minion without anybody knowing.

1) Zhaitan did corrupt the living – see Corporal Kellach (human PS), Necromancer Rissa (charr PS), and the Sparkfly Fen heart Help Ayomichi slow the spread of Risen corruption – furthermore, throughout Orr, Bloodtide Coast, Sparkfly Fen, and the last two chapters of the personal story (Greatest Fear and Orr), we learn that Zhaitan corrupts not just corpses and the living, but plants, the land, air, and water as well.

2) Mordremoth does not corrupt the living. He has been stated to use the dead and the living as templates. Basically, Mordremoth and the mordrem are seeing other individuals and using them as models for sculptures made out of plants that are other mordrem.

3) According to the articles, the physical change is not optional. Or so the article implies. It’s a matter of which sylvari become Mordrem Guards, not which sylvari work for Mordremoth.

Tim.6450:

Also wouldn’t it be logical for an elder dragon to create instead of corrupt? Elder dragons are not dumb, so learning from the mistakes of zhaitan is not illogical. One of the things the pact did was negating the ability to corrupt (with the krait orb and destroying the ship full of corpses).

Sure it’d be logical, but from the earliest lore of the Elder Dragons from the Movement of the World up until Mordremoth’s creation of mordrem, corrupting and twisting and destroying the rest is the pure foundation of Elder Dragon lore.

Besides Mordremoth, no Elder Dragon creates in the sense of not changing material a into material b.

Kodama.6453:

About sylvari: there IS a hive sense, like you already said discussed the dream, but the pale tree sylvari just seperated from the mordrem part with their own little “island”. They are still in the system, but got a barrier between them and mordrem.

Except that the Dream is not used by other “Pale Trees”. Malyck outright states he has no clue what the Dream or Nightmare is. So this is something unique to the Pale Tree and the Pale Tree alone.

The Dream is less a hive sense and more of a database by its explanation. It receives information, but only gives to ‘new products’ – never old, which hive minds would be doing.

Besides, I’m going to take the sylvari’s words that it isn’t a hive mind over player’s interpretations and claims that it is.

Kodama.6453:

The dragon does consume magic, not the minions. Mordrem don’t need to collect something like that, cause mordremoth is able to drain the magical lines of the world with his roots.

This is false. If you read the dialogue of the links, or watch videos of those story steps, you’d know this is false. The mere presence of risen – standard risen not even Mouths of Zhaitan – reduces the ambient magic in the area.

While Mordremoth does have his own tendrils sapping leyline (and formerly waypoint) magic, the mordrem during The Concordia Incident are stated to have drained the magical artifacts the Priory were protecting of their magic. They even assault another Priory caravan in the Iron Marches.

Kodama.6453:

About corruption, how about that: mordremoth is corrupting existing plants to minions, which will produce minions for him.

But the minions are growing on trees. The sylvari are literally described as the fruits of the trees – so too would the mordrem.

That’s growing, not corrupting.

I’ll respond to the others in turn later. Don’t have time now.

Some of the major ‘selling points’ Anet has been throwing about the plot of Heart of Thorns is how sylvari deal with the fact that they’re dragon minions, etc. etc.

But there’s a few things I just don’t get. Contradictions in the storytelling, if you will – or at least that’s how I’m seeing them – which makes me feel like Anet warped and ignored everything else about their lore to tell the story of ‘a player race comes from the bad guy’ which is an overused (and oft poorly done, IMO) trope.

I’ll largely be quoting The Mordrem Guard news post and "
The Mordrem Guard on Points of Interest: A Summary":https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-mordrem-guard-on-points-of-interest-a-summary/ since they’re most recent.

Issue 1: Mordremoth’s “corruption”

Nothing to really quote, but it stems from how Mordremoth creates new mordrem, and how sylvari are born – a wide variety of things but one good source is the Blighting Tree event chain in Verdant Brink from BWE2. With every Elder Dragon, there’s a very clear case of corruption – even Primordus’ minions are just corrupted rock and lava given a semblance of life (pulse-less and mindless without a champion though they be).

Mordrem, however, appear to “grow” from the treess. There is no uncorrupted state. Corpses and living creatures are merely used as templates (not too dissimilar from destroyers which also mimic living beings in shape). But effectively, the mordrem don’t seem to be coming from some uncorrupted state (unlike destroyers).

This counteracts EVERYTHING we’ve seen about dragon minions and Elder Dragons – that they corrupt living, dead, and land and destroy what they don’t twist, but they never create; never any case of e.g., sexual reproduction… Until Mordremoth.

Which makes Mordremoth an odd-ball of the group. And for no apparent reason…

1.5. Sylvari don’t act like dragon minions

Those who know me, this is a dead horse to beat but still a point I feel like bringing up. Sylvari simply don’t function like dragon minions.

Aside from the above point of “not corrupted from anything”, there’s the lack of a hive mind (people say the Dream – but as talked about, the Dream actually acts as a barrier and Killeen in Ghosts of Ascalon outright denies it being a hive mind or group consciousness – and I think the sylvari know what they’re about), there’s how they don’t consume magic – at all – despite mordrem doing such as well as standard risen – and we even see icebrood collecting magical artifacts. And that’s not to touch the more ambiguous aspects of dragon minions like nigh mindlessness sans champions (is every sylvari and mordrem guard a champion? I doubt it!).

2. The Sylvari Hate

Because sylvari are susceptible to becoming Mordrem Guard, Leah said that they encounter heightened prejudice and mistrust, and playing through the Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™ story as a sylvari character will have an impact on the overall experience.

Okay, so they’re dragon minions… but still. How would people find out? The only people who know this are 1) Caithe, the PC, and the Biconics, 2) Supposedly Scarlet, but she’s dead and not talking, 3) Mordrem.

“But wait,” you say, “the sylvari turned against the Pact and there are survivors! They know!”

Eh… not quite. The sylvari who survive know due to hearing the call… but how can they trust the call is because they’re freed dragon minions?

And to the non-sylvari – well, how can they be so certain that sylvari were born dragon minions? Let’s face it, sylvari are plants, and Mordremoth is a dragon that specializes in corrupting plants (at face value). So it makes sense for Mordremoth to be able to corrupt sylvari – corrupting plants is his thing (again, at face value; see point 1).

And Mordrem Guard spouting out that sylvari are dragon minions… again, who would trust what they say? Risen practically did the same thing over and over again throughout Orr and beyond! Icebrood and Sons of Svanir practically do the same thing as well. This isn’t new, this isn’t unique.

So why is everyone in Tyria making such a big deal out of corrupted beings? It’s been happening for the past 200 years.

Or will everyone know sylvari were born dragon minions because of the same reason everyone suddenly knew the name Mordremoth and the term mordrem? Aka, no explanation at all – it just bloody happened. And Anet was shamed, admitting it was a bad move.

3. Facing horror of fighting old comrades turned mordrem

These dragon minions present a personal threat to the remnants of the Pac

[…]

Although they’ve undergone physical changes to make themselves hardier and larger, Mordrem Guard maintain some aspects of their previous identity; members of the Pact may experience the horror of recognizing their former comrades among Mordremoth’s forces.

Again, so what? This is not new.

This is the Pact we’re talking about. They’re the veterans of Orr, where as that very article states their dead companions came back as dragon minions. With mordrem, they might be fighitng their old comrades – or more often miniosn that copy the appearance and potentially knowledge of their old comrades… but hours and days after the old comrade’s death (except in case of sylvari).

But this was true in Orr too. And even worse in Orr, they could be fighting former comrades SECONDS after said comrades’ deaths (as shown in both Edge of Destiny and Sea of Sorrows, as well as some story instances and events, corpses can turn into risen fast – before hitting the ground, even).

So why is this such an experience of horror? Only the greenhorns of the Pact would really see such as an ‘experience of horror.’ Yet it seems even Orrian veterans do.

So again, this feels like the plot is making a huge deal out of old stuff or things that rightfully they shouldn’t know.

So can someone explain to me why old situations are suddenly “omg drama!” and why the sylvari and Mordremoth are black sheep amongst dragons and their minions? Because as it stands, this entire plot we’re being told feels like “we did it cuz its cool, yo, forget consistency!”

And while it’s Anet’s story and they can do what they want with it without anyone’s say… that won’t make it a good story… In the end, only time will tell if it’s any good.

-puts on flame-resistant coat-

Sylvari don’t have troubles in the Shiverpeak. One of the sylvari that walk around in Wayfarer’s does so barefoot and says she enjoys the cold feel on her feet.

Ehecatl.9172:

If they all had an epic battle at the end of their feeding cycle there wouldn’t be as many dragons still around as they’d have killed one another.

This possibility does present one interesting question though:

What if originally there were more dragons?

Glint’s history as well as the lore of Cantha, Bone Dragons, Rotscale, and the appearance of both Zhaitan’s dragon-shaped champions and the Claws of Jormag indicate that there was once a race of dragons – or rather, many races of dragons.

It’s been a theory of mine for a while that the Elder Dragons might have been ‘greedier’ dragons that consumed more magic than others, lived longer, and grew more powerful than the others and slowly killed said others off – or twisting them into their slaves like Glint.

It would seem in the Elder Dragons’ best interest – given that their minions state things like eternal rule of their dragon and various other indications which point to the Elder Dragons not wanting to go back to sleep – to kill the other Elder Dragons.

But it makes sense for them not to make a move at first, because they’re weakened. If Zhaitan, for example, made a move against the sleeping Mordremoth of Kralkatorrik what would prevent Primordus or Jormag (or the DSD) from making a move on Zhaitan after he’s expelled a bunch of energy killing (and perhaps wakening unintentionally) Mordremoth and Kralkatorrik.

They probably see it far riskier to attack other Elder Dragons than to attack civilizations, so fighting the other ED is an ‘end-game’ for them. In this scenario.

Ehecatl.9172:

Granted maybe that is why Glint was the only Dragon Champion still active. After the dragons went to sleep she was the one that killed the other Champions to secure an advantage for Kraalkatorrik.

We don’t really know when Glint was freed, but it seems likely to be before Kralkatorrik fell asleep given that it was Glint that hid the four races (Mursaat fled the world so of the five they weren’t hidden).

And as Aaron said, we have knowledge of other Elder Dragons having powerful minions about before their awakening – the risen Giganticus Lupicus was corrupted during the last dragonrise; Drakkar who woke up Jormag; the Great Destroyer who was meant to wake Primordus.

Interestingly, Kralkatorrik is the only dragon to not have been woken by a minion or had a minion around while it was asleep (not considering the fully unknown DSD). Mordremoth didn’t have a living dragon champion that was allied to him, going off of both Malyck and the Pale Tree’s sylvari being not Mordrem Guard thus indicating that the cave was purified somehow and not a case of the Pale Tree being the sole freed tree; but despite this Mordy made one in his slumber by pure chance of Scarlet entering the machine.

This could easily explain the small gap between Kralkatorrik and Mordremoth’s rise. Primordus was also pushed late by the Great Destroyer’s death. If Primordus was “meant” to rise in GW1’s time, and Mordremoth was “meant” to rise when it did, then Primordus and the DSD likely awoke at the same time (give or take a decade) and Kralkatorrik was likely meant to have awakened ~50 years prior to the game, rather than 5.

Durzlla.6295:

Instead of having the one vine growing over your left shoulder they could make it so there’s 4 vines or so all growing out around from the center of your back

I would use Mawdrey if this was the design.