Further, if you join someone then later buy the episodes, you have to do the story again to unlock access to the achievements – meaning you’ll have to do the story three times.
Another gem conversation – from the sylvari PS:
Cai: “Fantastic! It worked! I thought we had no chance.”
<Valiant>: “Hang on. Cai? What happened? Where’d the dredge go?”
Cai: “Dredge… right… wow, that stuff was strong. Don’t worry. The good guys won, Waine fell over like a chump, and we’ve got Caladbolg.”
<Valiant>: “But… the oozes! The oozes! And the dredge!”
Cai: “Hoo, boy. We’d better get out of here, before you start calling me Queen Jennah and thanking me for the tea.”
The female voice acting for the PC there was pure gold.
Ahhh, more pointless and uninstigated Trahearne hate by the OP. That’s a popular quote in of itself!
ahem
Anyways, my favorite lines are many:
Best of Logan:
Inquisitor Mirella: Well, Captain Thackeray! A long way from home, aren’t we? I thought we saved you for last, but since you’re here…
Logan Thackeray: Oh dear. Oh, mercy. The White Mantle is upon me. Woe! Lamentation! Is this the end for poor Logan?
Inquisitor Mirella: Are… are… are you mocking me? I don’t think you understand how this works. White Mantle! Give the captain a demonstration.
Logan Thackeray: No, thanks. I think I already have a pretty good idea. Now!
Zojja: I’ve been tracking down a nasty piece of work named Kudu. He’s using dragon energies in his work.
Logan Thackeray: Isn’t Kudu a girl’s name?
Zojja: Focus, here. He’s been using Snaff’s research, and I intend to stop him.
My favorite human PC line:
Two-Blade Pete: You think you’re smarter than Pete, do ya? Think you hurt me? Let me tell you something.
<Player>: Better men than you have tried.
Two-Blade Pete: Tried and failed? Look, kid. I’m not easily intimi–
<Player>: Tried and died.
Two-Blade Pete: Huh. Maybe I underestimated you.
Best line from Tybalt OP didn’t mention (context: Tybalt uses an illusion to look like Demmi Beetlestone):
Lightbringer Tybalt Leftpaw: Burn me, I’m a human girl! Whoa, I’ve got two hands and some lovely…apples.
From Blood Legion storyline, where you’re tracking down a traitorous soldier:
Rytlock Brimstone: More dazed soldiers staggering around in their skivvies. Either we’re on the right track, or we missed the best party ever.
From Loyal Soldier charr storyline, where you help out some scrappers; the entire story step is a laugh and a half:
Isola: Ready for work, boss? Here’s the plan. There are Ascalonian artifacts under that rubble. We can’t get ‘em ’cause we keep getting attacked.
<Character name>: Attacked? By what?
Braugit: Don’t laugh, okay? Okay? It’s…it’s cows! There, I said it! I dream about them coming for me in the night with their…their horrible death moos.
<Character name>: Cows. You’re afraid of…cows.
Isola: Technically, these are GHOST cows. And don’t pick on Braugit. He’s got a thing about cows. And ghosts. So ghost cows are a real problem.
Braugit: They’re not far. I can hear ’em. Mooing…that awful, awful mooing!
Braugit: Isola! Here come more cows! Help!
Isola: Think about something nice, Braugit. Like bunnies or something. You like bunnies, right?
Braugit: I do! Bunnies don’t moo!
Isola: Don’t look so surprised. What, did you think we were going to cheat you just because we’re scrappers? We’re smarter than that. Well, some of us are.
<Character name>: Good. We’re even, and I’m leaving. Listen, if you two ever come back to the Black Citadel, let me know and I’ll buy you a drink. A whole meal, in fact.
<Character name>: There’s a ranch just outside the city. Fresh meat! What do you say, Braugit? How does a big, juicy steak and a glass of warm milk grab you?
Braugit: Aaaaah!
And pretty much half of what Maverick and Dinky say from the charr storylines…
I would add the line from Rytlock during the Ash storyline, but Buddha posted it. :P
Most are likely corrupted plantlife made mobile – thrashers, for example, could be various flowers that were malformed and enlarged, given magic to float and so forth.
But some, like wolves, are clearly part corpses – though whether it’s a case of a plant minion puppeteering a wolf corpse, or a corpse growing planty-appendages is unclear.
Every other dragon we’ve seen minions of are known to be capable of corrupting living beings and landscapes, and most can corruption plants as well.
I’d argue that Mordremoth is capable of corrupting landscape, corpse, and plantlife from what we’ve seen, but most minions are likely corrupted plants.
The sword was his. Why would he give you his stuff?
cause it isn’t his.
if you play sylvari line, YOU got the sword first.the sword has a purpose…which it isn’t used for. instead its used as a kitten toilet plunger
If you want to get technical, you never got the sword. You borrowed the sword from the Pale Tree, who later gave it to Trahearne to use as Pact Marshal.
And it had been used for its purpose – to purify Orr.
Joko’s conquest seems unchanged, it’s just that there was a refugee flood long after the conquest by all indication.
I am doubtful of that, drax.
Thrulnn the Lost – while most of his information seems dubious at best – outright states that humans only had elementalism when they arrived on Tyria from boats. This would, comparing to other historical knowledge, refer to the time of 205 BE. Thrulnn called this primitive magic and claims the jotun had other magic at the time (now that part I consider dubious – the jotun having other magic).
But this indicates that at least that long ago there was enough magic for the simpler forms of magic to be used – and seemingly, at least, without being gifted or aided by a higher being.
With Tahmu specifically – she would have been an elementalist to be using fire like in the story, making her a spellcaster theoretically plausible, more so if the Acolytes of Cliffside were using what was then the most advanced magic (which is literally staff 1 necro skill in appearance – something very simple nowadays).
Regarding the grandousness of the capabilities – it reads to me that Tahmu sacrificed herself for this (as two of the other stories end with the subject’s death and the third other ends with her no longer being her old self – each case is a finality). We know that spellcasters can tap into their own life to fuel spells and make them stronger. Guardians in Sea of Sorrows’ final battle did this and died from over-extending themselves to keep the ship safe; Koro Sagewind did this twice, the first time summoning an illusion the size of the Eye of the North and going blind for a week, the second time summoning an entire army (very akin to Kitah) which eventually cost her life later that day.
If it cost her life that moment, and elementalism was already available to some, then I don’t see why a grand spell couldn’t have been performed.
Nightfall was the prophecy (and event) that marked the return of Abaddon, so there won’t be a new nightfall. :P
The only book in the Priory basement which mentions the Realm of Torment, according to the wiki, is Shiro Tagachi’s Biography.
Where did you see any mention of the Realm of Torment for how the OoW travels to Tyria and Elona?
AFAIK, the only mention of the Realm of Torment in GW2’s context is as a swear.
Yeah not much lore exists on the origin of any profession really…aside from Revenant (rhytlock being the first)
We do have a bit on dervishes, assassins, and ritualists, along with all the ‘new’ professions (guardian, engineer, thief).
Guardians are what happened to I believe paragons and monks (preservation)
And ritualists.
Mesmers belong to the school of Denial magic.
specifically, Denial of free will (domination) Denial of repression (inspiration) and denial of perception (illusions)
however mesmers have now grown into having Denial of reality (chaos magic) [ which mind you, according to the inquest…is also very similar to dragon magic/dragon energy]
and then now I guess with heart of thorns, Denial of Time (chronomancy.)
To be honest, this is all speculation. While players likely have lined up profession to school properly, the only confirmed case is elementalists with destruction.
And about the dragon energy/chaos energy similarity bit – there’s hidden dialogue in high level fractals if you save the two generic named Inquest Operatives whch indicates that Scarlet’s a liar in her little monologue. She convinced the inquest that the dragon energy was chaos energy and tricked the Thaumanova lead into using said dragon energy instead of chaos energy.
So I wouldn’t be so sure it’s actually similar and that the Inquest ‘messed up.’
It’s outright stated that the Oracle moves around frequently – that was the entire point of the Finding the Oracle quest just before Nahpui Quarter mission. And where the Oracle goes, the trials of Weh no Su lie.
As for its age, the process of Weh no Su is doubtlessly ancient as it’s just another method of Ascension (per An Empire Divided they’re literally the same end result).
We don’t have the age for any celestial, so it would be without curiosity for some to be ancient and others to be relatively new.
As for where Tahmu got her magic… don’t take the concept of the world completely lacking magic so sure cut. Cliffside Fractal is about the time when humanity was freshly new on the world of Tyria – yet the humans there have very clear magic (particularly the Archdiviner and Acolytes who utilize necromancer-like spells).
The sword was his. Why would he give you his stuff?
People don´t want circular and boring content, repetition of ingame stuff is bad because grind.
-
Demand two year old content back.That´s either a sign of total desperation or my meager trust in humankind is still vastly bloated^^
To be fair, when Season 1 was being released, Anet explicitly stated that most of the content was being designed for returning content. That is why there were so many celebrations (Halloween, Wintersday, Dragon Bash, Four Winds, Queen’s Jubilee, SAB). Their intent was to get it done with Season 1 so that they could simply bring it back with minimal work in the future – though it seems that plan changed somewhere down the line given they removed the chance to reuse half the work (destroying LA, crashing the Zephyrites).
Everyone enjoys holiday content, even if it’s repeated – they just enjoy it more if it’s holiday content with old and new.
Plus there’s the fact that not everyone has the same views, so some may say they don’t want returning content while others will say they do. Most folks dislike once then never again stuff, though, and that’s what Season 1 was when not prepping holiday content.
It’s not really tinfoil hat given that Anet went into such effort to make it seem like sylvari weren’t dragon minions – too much, as I’ve already stated in this thread, that they ended up creating such stark differences even between sylvari and mordrem.
And to be fair, I never said Scarlet wasn’t corrupted by Mordremoth, I merely only stated there were other possibilities (which, indeed, there were – they just weren’t the case).
But nice deflecting. You never answered my question that pokes holes in your hypothesis, or asks for clarification.
I’ll bullet point the questions:
And as an added bonus:
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
We don’t know how the tree was freed from Mordy’s control, we only know that she was freed. There is evidence to support three theories. First, Ventari could have inadvertently purified the tree. The evidence for this is the extreme revenance that the Pale Tree holds for Ventari’s tablet. Another possibility is that it is due to a localized phenomenon. The evidence for this is the white hart, which also shares the dream. The third possibility is a combination of the two prior theories that is the localized phenomenon and Ventari’s efforts combined to purify the tree.
The fourth possibility being that the cave was full of purified dragon minions who only needed to be raised with the right mindset.
The second is a bit false, in that nothing says the Dream is locational. Especially since Orr exists within the Dream just as the Tarnished Coast does.
There’s no problem here. The tree is obviously free from Mordy’s control.
The problem lies in the question of why the Pale Tree is free from Mordremoth’s control.
Which, as I said, you seem to avoid the possibility that she was freed before Ronan and Ventari interacted with her. In that the seed was freed.
Couldn’t we say that the pale tree has a separate non brain washed consciousness from Mordremoth because Ronan and Ventari had such a close connection with the pale tree when it was growing that eventually the Pale tree developed a more “Human” consciousness separate from the Dragon, and therefore the Sylvari are not directly connected to the Dragon like the other Mordrem are?
The chances of such are highly unlikely, in all honesty.
Dragon corruption has shown itself to be a brainwashing action in which reversal is nearly impossible. Even with Glint and the Forgotten ritual, all that was done was instilling free will. Dragon minions are literally mental slaves to their dragon.
There’s no reason mordrem would be any different.
And going off of Glint, as well as the risen chicken, you need effectively two things: First to introduce free will (remove the enslavement/brainwashing), second to convince the subject to turn against their dragon. With the chicken, being a mindless grunt and a basic wildlife, such was obviously simple. But with Glint she says she killed countless before she decided to turn against Kralkatorrik – indicating that after using the ritual she still worked for Kralkatorrik.
Mawdrey and the Pale Tree would no doubt be similar – you could free them… but they’d also require convincing to fight against the dragons. For the Pale Tree, this no doubt was Ronan and Ventari’s actions. But even then – there’s still the matter of freeing from the brainwashing which has shown to be a core part of the Elder Dragons’ method of making minions – even for Mordremoth.
This is also why the unhatched dragon egg could be a danger if raised in the wrong hands – it could be raised by the elder dragons to serve them, it could be raised by the Inquest to become a powerhouse for them, White Mantle could raise it and have it worship the mursaat and vow the destruction of Kryta, etc. etc.
I think we would all agree that it is at least possible that DSD has influence on Canthan shores and is consuming the magic in the jade sea and Echovald forest causing them to revert to their pre jade wind states. Kuunavang is a salt spray dragon, usually found in the jade sea but they still have an affiliation with water, we don’t know where they came from, they could possibly be like glint, awake, friendly to humans, and left over from the previous awakening.
Nothing would argue that the Jade Sea or Echovald Forest are reverting due to magic being drained rather than the fact that 200 years had passed since they were turned to stone (by the time the rumors of reverting began). Furthermore, they began to revert – seemingly – in GW1’s time which would be at least 50 years prior to the DSD waking up far away from Cantha, let alone reaching near there.
As said, current world maps which shows an altered Canthan coastline shows no indication of the Jade Sea being liquified yet, indicating that the rumors of their melting back during EotN and WoC were just that – rumors. It’s more likely that after 200 years new plantlife finally began to sprout in the Echovald, and the Jade Wind didn’t turn the entire Jade Sea into solid but only the surface few miles (we don’t know how deep the water is).
And then there’s the fact that jade still seems to exist in Cantha per the Zephyrites having a jade statue of a fish from a land that is heavily hinted to be Cantha – a prosperous and “culturally colorful ports of call” (not a description I’d give to a land under siege by dragon minions from within).
Kuunavang may be a powerful Saltspray Dragon, but all Saltspray Dragons utilize air magic and fire magic. Kuunavang herself utilizes the same plus celestial skills. Aside from their habitat being the Jade Sea, there’s nothing to link them to water – and the DSD’s minions have been stated to be tentacled creatures, not water creatures. This would place it more likely that the Oni (and by extension, Kanaxai) are more likely related to the DSD than Kuunavang and the Saltspray Dragons.
I don’t know of any other identical statues to the picture and how are you so sure that its a light house?
They’re only located outside of harbors, constantly spewing fire. Concept art for them is literally titled ‘dragon lighthouse’.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dragon_lighthouse
And when was Tahmu’s time? If it was after the Jade Wind (when naga were hostile), she couldn’t have been the Celestial Dragon of the Dragon Festival. If it was pre-imperial, then the magic to do what is described simply wasn’t available without help from something. If it happened between the gift of magic and the shattering of the Bloodstones, then we would surely have heard about it.
The Celestial Pig, originally Chong, is explicitly stated to be a human from pre-Canthan days that was elevated by the gods. Presuming that the tale hasn’t been spun out of proportion by time and retelling, then the other celestials likely ascended in a similar manner – pre-Gift of Magic capabilities.
Truth be told, nothing really says Tahmu was Canthan.
There is no mention of more than two Celestial Dragons, and five celestials are given human names.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
The reason for the Pale Tree’s current state of not being a brainwashed servant is the main problem of Darc’s arguments about Mordremoth, and something he doesn’t seem to understand despite the various ways I try to word it.
As to Mawdrey – we toss him a LOT of oddities. Including Foefire magic, which it should be noted not only did Foefire ghosts remain unaffected to Kralkatorrik’s corruption, but Foefire ghosts’ “Ghostfire” is exceptionally powerful against risen. Not too dissimilar to how the divine fire reacts to Mordrem. There’s also the cleansing waters of the Maguuma used, direct ley line magic, and chaos magic from the Thaumanova explosion (which itself is a mixture of chaos and dragon magics). And let’s not forget that we used the Heart of a Destroyer.
Basically, we fed Mawdrey a Subject Alpha and Foefire magic that was steeped in pure, raw, ley line magic.
It wouldn’t be surprising if that resulted in something akin to Kudu’s Monster – if Kudu told the truth, he had control over it.
What about the undead Mesmer that disguised herself as a Charr and framed the PC for murder?
Or is that stretching the meaning of ‘sleeper agent’?
A sleeper agent is someone who acts like a common member of society until a time when they become active.
Labwan – and Scarlet – were not sleepers. They were actively trying to aid their dragon from the beginning. Or in Scarlet’s case, actively trying to aid and hinder Mordremoth.
Do we know for certain that Scarlet caused the meltdown for Mordy? From the fractal it just seems she popped in to get the Inquest research on the lay-lines. I’m not sure about the timeline, but I assume this was before she got into the machine (since the machine was attached to a leyline nexus which she could only find with the Inquest data).
There’s hidden dialogue after you free the Inquest in higher levels which tells us that Scarlet tricked the Inquest head at Thaumanova to push the bounds and that – according to the two operatives – they got into a game of ‘who can push the boundaries further’ until they snapped.
Furthermore, this dialogue indicates that Scarlet lies in her little rant. According to the operatives, she introduced dragon energy, lying to the Inquest and claiming it was chaos magic.
I’m not sure about the timeline, but I assume this was before she got into the machine (since the machine was attached to a leyline nexus which she could only find with the Inquest data).
I’m not sure about the Thaumanova timeline myself, but when she went into the machine it was in Rata Sum- no need for a ley line. The one we found out in Dry Top was presumably either moved or built there later.
It was moved. It’s explicitly stated that she used steam creatures to carry it in pieces from Prosperity to the ley line hub.
Why do you think Malyck would need to take the methods that Scarlet took? Scarlet was physically outside of Mordy’s zone of control, she needed to take the extra steps. Malyck wouldn’t need to take those extra steps because he developed closer to Mordy and he did not have the dream to protect him.
My conclusion is that all seeds in that cave – and their guardians – were purified in the distant past. Something we’ll likely have confirmed or debunked in HoT. Thus if Malyck’s tree’s seed came from here… his tree would be purified too.
Without Mordremoth’s active influence, sylvari are left to their own devices in every form.
Oh yes, I forgot, you believe that minions are created like cookies with little magic cookie cutters stamping them into creation. That’s why you couldn’t recognize that Scarlet was working for Mordy, because you claimed “that’s not how minions work”. Devs have stated repeatedly that Mordy controls minions differently.
I’m going to have to ask for a source on that, because I’ve seen nothing either in-game or out to indicate such. HoT’s preview shows that mordrem function just like any other dragon minion in regards to their general shared functions.
Sylvari being so different seems to be a clear fault of Anet trying too hard to make it not obvious that they were dragon minions.
Hell, there are even dozens of differences between mordrem and sylvari – both mentally and physiologically.
I’m not sure what you’re talking about with the whole purification bit. I do know that there were two plant creatures guarding the cave that the seeds were in. Something planted the seeds so that the sylvari would be ready when Mordy woke up. The plant creature guardians would be able to fit that role. Please explain your purification rant.
See above, but where do you get “two” plant creatures? A number was never given.
Scarlet was created in 1320, four years before the Thaumanova Reactor incident. Mordy does indeed employ sleeper agents.
She wasn’t a sleeper agent (see next post). It’s pretty clear from her journal that Mordremoth didn’t take immediate control over Ceara aka Scarlet Briar. When Scarlet finally sucumbed to the visions Mordremoth sent her, it was late 1323. And even during the warmup dialogue to the Prime Hologram (in 1327), she was denying the voice in her head.
Now, if she could fight him off, disconnected from the Dream but having touched his mind, while he slept… why do you think Mordremoth would have full control over Malyck?
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Semantics, drax. :P
Point remains: there are many far more obvious reasons for the empire’s draconic theme than ‘omg they worship Elder Dragons’ which couldn’t be further from the truth.
And there’s nothing to say that Tahmu isn’t the Celestial Dragon, given that she’s outright called the Celestial Dragon.
It’s not a tin foil hat theory and your use of the term is very offensive.
You have no actual evidence to back your claim, and that’s what tends to classify something as a tinfoil hat theory.
Mordy was asleep and and still was able to control Scarlet.
Again, because she went to him through a method not available to the everyday individual.
Malyck – or any other sylvari, Dream protected or not – did not.
This is the key and constantly ignored aspect that breaks down your theory and drives it into tinfoil hat area.
That and the fact that no dragon minion ever anywhere acts as a sleeper agent thus far.
You are working on the basis of nothing beyond loose strings.
He’s controlling something because the other seeds managed to get planted deliberately where he wanted them.
Issue two:
Whoever said that the cave was not purified? There was no purification ritual cast on the Pale Tree so we’ve been told and no indication of such. Malyck was indeed acting unlike any dragon minion – mordrem or otherwise – we’ve ever seen
If you go back and read the short story, Scarlet went outside of the Pale Tree’s ability to protect her. That’s when Mordy took her over.
I think you should go re-read the short story.
Scarlet did more than just go outside the Pale Tree’s ability to protect her. The short story explicitly states “Ceara paused. She hadn’t heard the Pale Tree’s voice in years.” Further, she delved into that connection between Pale Tree and Mordremoth – though that wasn’t shown in the short story itself, but in The Machine’s cinematic.
Malyck’s entire existence has been outside the Pale Tree’s protection. To assume Mordy couldn’t over take Malyck is to underestimate the abilities of “a force of nature”.
That phrase is a misnomer in of itself. It is used by the common folk of Tyria to describe something they literally do not understand. ArenaNet uses it a lot too, but they’ve also stated that this is from the average Tyrian’s perspective.
In other words: the Elder Dragons are not forces of nature. They merely seem to be such to the uneducated mind.
And why could Mordremoth control Malyck. He was asleep. And again, he could only influence Scarlet because she prodded his mind. The same thing that Jennah and Snaff did to Kralkatorrik – but Jennah reeled back before she could be affected, and Snaff managed to figure out how Kralkatorrik thinks.
What does this mean? It means Scarlet failed where Snaff succeeded.
And Malyck did not attempt this act.
Caithe would have had to kill Malyck privately. If anyone were to find out that she killed him, then the secret would be blown. Caithe has already killed to keep the secret, so she’s capable of doing it. Despite your claims that she can’t.
Caithe could kill Malyck and keep the secret that she kept – that the sylvari are dragon minions – with ease. By stating that it was too risky for Malyck to live because if the Nightmare Court ever found out in the future then their actions now were for naught.
I wasn’t saying she cannot kill. I was saying that Malyck would have gotten too far for her to follow suit, kill him, and return on time for our next interaction.
In other words: there wasn’t enough time. It’s got nothing to do with whether or not she could kill, but how fast she could track him down, kill him, and return. Which wasn’t much.
Nightmare Court does not work for Mordy. They are also protected by the dream.
That’s yet to be seen, really.
While it is heavily implied as of late that the Nightmare does indeed protect them from Mordremoth’s control like the Dream does – but still altering them as well – the Nightmare Court are first and foremost interested in being to their true selves. Which would be serving Mordremoth.
So the Nightmare Court’s ultimate goal – whether they realize it or not – is to become full fledged mordrem.
CureForLiving’s point remains: both forces would want the Pale Tree dead. So if Malyck was working for Mordremoth, he would have betrayed us and tried to kill us.
He certainly wouldn’t go out of his way to free the wardens personally – something that was explicitly stated in the storyline to be more than what others would or should do – either.
Humorously enough, when the GW2 version of norn were first released there was a lot of dislike for the male norn’s bulkiness because it wasn’t very similar to GW1’s version of norn – I believe the complaints were that they looked like gorillas.
In GW1, norn very much looked like very tall and very, very muscular humans.
They also wore very little armor and clothing – especially compared to in GW2.
Scarlet actually wasn’t protected by the Dream. In the short story, it’s explicitly stated she hadn’t heard the Pale Tree’s voice in years. Dreamers can hear her when she calls, Soundless cannot.
And entering the Machine brought her mind close to Mordremoth’s (and all the other Elder Dragons, probably).
We actually aren’t sure where Mordremoth is specifically, so while Malyck’s tree is closer it isn’t necessarily close. Furthermore, Mordremoth was still asleep when Malyck was awoke.
Mordremoth only affected Scarlet because she went in Omadd’s Machine.
There is no reason to believe Malyck was lying except for tinfoil hat theories, such as yours – that he was ‘always corrupted.’
Not quite the same region as the krait so much as the same direction. By the lore we have, the krait were the ones who forced the quaggan out of their homeland who in turn were forced out by the DSD.
It’s kind of like a chain by all appearances.
First the krait were kicked out. Then the quaggan. Then the karka. And the largos are currently facing the brunt but holding.
The DSD awoke at the deepest part of the seas, so it’s unlikely he woke up near Cantha – let alone in it. Nor did it awake between Cantha and Elona, as we have lore stating that part of the Clashing Seas (the sea between Tyria/Elona and Cantha) is full of high reefs (Nightfall manuals state this as where corsairs love to hide outside of Elona).
Cantha is the Empire of the Dragon because of the Celestial Dragon, formerly called Tahmu, who is an elevated human soul like the other celestials.
Kuunavang had no relation to water, but instead her relation is to stars. Plus, she was never hibernating per Factions’ lore – she’s been around for eons, but ever since being altered by Shiro (when is unclear whether during Factions or during Jade Wind) she hid within the Harvest Temple.
And the Elder Dragons don’t take a stone-like state while asleep. I think you’re mistaking the fact that they sleep so long that stone, dirt, and vegetation covers them.
The image you link is just a lighthouse – nothing more, nothing less, and existed in lore long before the Elder Dragons did.
Regarding the DSD’s location, I’ve actually been gathering lore to figure it out and I have a rough estimation for not only the DSD’s current territory, but the location of where quaggan, karka, krait, and largos live(d). I should finish up that map diagram and make a thread on it…
Scarlet inadvertedly actively sought Mordremoth out by using Omadd’s machine, however, and no other sylvari is known to have been influenced by Mordremoth until after he began stirring – which was Aeron, whom was not only Soundless but in close proximity.
There’s a good chance Malyck and his tree has been corrupted, but this is only a ‘good chance’ after the Battle for Lion’s Arch.
And Malyck outright states that he knows the general location of the tree: “Somewhere to the west, at the source of that river, there’s another tree. Maybe even another city, with more sylvari like me. My family.”
That doesn’t really sound like throwing people off. It’s rather specific. At the source of the river.
Oddly enough, we players know exactly where that river’s source is. It’s a place known to Shining Blade, Maguuma centaurs, Druids, and asura alike – The Falls.
If you get injured a lot, you’re not a good player.
8)
In seriousness, if you’re not just 100% fully trolling like I suspect you are, then you need to learn the difference between mechanics and story.
Because honestly, our PC can walk away from kitten that would make Superman cry.
I don’t think the group that he mentioned as watching the PC’s actions as the Elders – the Elders are part of the All, given the context.
I highly doubt that Livia and the Master of Peace – if I’m right – would be part of the All.
As for the trait name – Glint was supposedly close to being an Elder Dragon, and she was very ancient and thus would be called elder.
I think that’s just a case of a generic term being used as part of a pronoun for a group. Like anonymous – trying to link every use of that word to the group Anonymous would be foolhardy.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
1) Sea passage was cut off by Zhaitan. While he’s dead now, it would appear that the nations of Tyria feel it’s more important to worry about home front issues than re-opening communications with an isolationist nation (Cantha) and a dictatorship (Elona).
Elona is also blocked off by land via the Desolation, formerly Zhaitan, and Kralkatorrik.
With the DSD’s spread, it is likely also blockading sea travel out of Tyria – but this is still speculative, as we do not know the DSD’s location or its territory’s expanses.
2) Last we heard of Cantha was when Zhaitan rose (100 years ago). As of then, they had gone mostly isolationist – and had been for a few decades by then – only allowing trade to come in and go. Non-races were exiled or butchered by all accounts, with the last to leave being the tengu who left sometime after Zhaitan’s rise, but they have not shared information about Cantha’s state, nor do we have a specific time in which they fled (though putting together the math indicates within the past 70 years).
During Festival of the Four Winds, it was heavily hinted that the Zephyrites had just visited Cantha, but they would not give specifics – only that the land they visited was beautiful. So if that was indeed Cantha, which seems likely given the jade statue, then Cantha has fared well in the past century.
Last we heard of Elona would have been 50 years ago during the final refugee escape from there. As of then, Joko was still in rule, hunting down Sunspears and ruling with a somewhat iron fist – if people kept giving him tribute he’d leave them be otherwise he’d crack down and use them to expand his undead army. They’ve been fighting with Zhaitan’s risen on the northern Elonian borders, but that situation is unknown as of Zhaitan’s death.
My best guesses for the DSD’s placement would hint that it might be assaulting Cantha and/or Elona’s coasts, and people surmise that Kralkatorrik fled toward Elona (though it could have fled eastward – north of Tyria and south of eastern charr lands). But nothing has indicates that either is doing worse for wear.
If you read the dialogue, you’d know that Trahearne was injured from cleansing Orr of corruption and thus was physically incapable of going to fight Zhaitan.
I don’t think you’d wade into battle if you could barely stand (which was the case for Trahearne).
He’s inside the Golem Mines.
He’s mining to make the city’s internal infrastructure larger for more buildings etc.
Anet only did that S1 summary because there has been a year+ long outcry for something in-game to explain the sudden story jump of killing Zhaitan to going into Dry Top and talking about this ‘Scarlet’ figure not everyone knew. With more new players due to HoT’s advertisements, the outcry became louder.
The summary was intentionally limited, to only give the needed facts for going into S2 and in turn HoT. Thus it doesn’t include non-Scarlet/Mordremoth stuff.
There’s no need for an in-game summary of Season 2, since it’s all permanent content. And since they intend to make Season 1 permanent content in S2’s format, it’s plausible that they’ll remove the S1 summary whenever they get to doing so.
In Nightfall, it was confirmed they were toys, which as stated above, has been reinforced by Wintersday in GW2.
However, the Black Moa Chick miniature from GW1 was an actual black moa chick – a living, breathing, animal. I would argue the same can be said for the baby miniatures in GW2.
I don’t want it to go back to how it was, but I would love to see progression.
Instead of restoring the lake a bit, we got Fort Salma’s destruction.
Would like to see Fort Salma and Concordia slowly rebuilt too, now that Anet can make story instances use previous zone maps, like what’s done with LA.
But in all honesty, I’d say this for every zone, some slow progression via new events here and there, new NPCs doing things, construction beginning and finishing, etc.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Hard to say, but he’d also have to consider all dragon minions as such, I would think, since all are potentially ‘escaping death’ – there are cases of icebrood being made from corpses too, for example, and as you said icebrood often end up as bones encased in ice (Branded concept art shows similar – the only part of the original bodies remaining being grayed, torn skin and bones).
Risen are just more so (both in the fact that most risen are made from corpses, and their constant preaches of immortality through undeath).
But then you have to ask: is Dhuum willing to throw down with Zhaitan and the other Elder Dragons?
Given his unjust and seemingly hypocritical nature, I think he wouldn’t unless he has a fairly sure chance of winning.
Zhaitan as we all know uses the Risen a.k.a. a form of undead as his minions.
This here is what I think you got wrong.
Risen are definitely not traditional undead. Aside from all the common dragon minion traits like hive minds and mixed levels of intelligence dependent upon magic forced into the minion as well as how all dragon minions – risen included – are effectively brainwashed, you have the very clear difference between risen and undead from a physical sense.
That is to say: state of decay.
Risen will appear roughly the same no matter what. Be they fresh risen killed 10 seconds ago, or be they ancient princes who’s corpses were ransacked from the catacombs of Orr, they all have the same appearance: flesh mostly there, gray skin, rotted.
Normal undead, however, have a very varied state of decay. They can appear as skeletons, held together by ethereal bindings like Killeen’s in GoA, or they can be looking like they’re still alive – again, like Killeen’s undead in GoA (the Ebon Vanguard, sans her broken neck looked normal). Their minds vary – from nigh brainless (no pun intended) to intelligent, but the cause of this remains unknown – even grunts have shown heavy intelligence amongst some necromancers’ creation. But they certainly don’t exhibit hive mind of any form.
While the risen are called undead, this is less because they’re the same as undead, and more that they’re rotten in appearance and mostly formed from corpses. But, it should be noted, not all risen come from corpses; and not only risen come from corpses.
Take this clear difference between undead and risen, and you get your answer, I believe.
Can Zhaitan’s magic be considered Necromancy?
I would argue no.
Dragon energy is clearly separated from dark, light, and chaos energy just like divine is. Necromancy appears to derive from dark energy.
The other question is, did the gods even know of the EDs existence.
Scroll of the Five True Gods indicates they did. But according to Randall, the gods didn’t know of Zhaitan’s specific location or that Zhaitan was the source of the magic they pulled from when strengthening the Bloodstone(s).
Abaddon was the god of secrets,
Prior to his fall, Abaddon was called the god of wisdom.
1) Wyld Hunts come from the Dream. Dark Hunts come from the Nightmare. Mordremoth does not control any of these four. However, it’s been confirmed that Mordremoth can use the same ‘channels’ as the Wyld/Dark Hunts to spread his influence, but the Hunts themselves do not come from Mordremoth.
As for Trahearne’s Wyld Hunt being caused by Mordremoth – highly unlikely. Mordremoth was asleep at this point in time and wouldn’t even affect Scarlet for nearly a decade. Ceara was further only affected because she became Soundless (hadn’t heard the Pale Tree’s voice in years by that point), which means she removed the defenses against dragon corruption. So the chances of Mordremoth having affected ANY Wyld Hunt prior to Season 2’s end (when Mordy’s influence seems to finally hold true weight) is unlikely.
2) They’re a third party. Points of Interest episode 18 tells us that Mordremoth uses not only the Wyld Hunts but also the Dark Hunts to affect sylvari. If the Nightmare was tied to Mordremoth kitten many think, then he would not need to use the Dark Hunts to affect Nightmare Courtiers – unless this was intentional red herring wordplay.
This doesn’t mean that Nightmare Courtiers will become good guys or anti-heroes. It merely means that we retain the three way conflict from before (Dreamers, Courtiers, and dragon minions). Both Dreamers and Courtiers could fall to Mordremoth.
3) Unknown.
4) Kudu was not the leader of the Inquest, but rather a highly ranked individual with a lot of sway. Who leads the Inquest – if any one individual – has never been known. Nor is it known who has taken over Kudu’s research on dragon energies after his death (and we know someone has as Arah’s explorable path has Inquest still researching this field).
5) I don’t think Glint’s final egg hatching will have that large of an impact on who’s the next Elder Dragon, tbh. While it was established that Kralkatorrik was to be after Zhaitan in dialogue, Jormag has shown to be far more active than the other dragons, so presumably Kralkatorrik was a target due to his likely-still-weakened state; but the next Elder Dragon will be the one that’s the next biggest threat, like Mordremoth became.
Currently, that stands to be Jormag. But any dragon could pop up as such.
And for why I don’t think the egg will have an affect on this: Glint had more than one egg. We don’t know their fates, but we know that this is the last egg – meaning that all other eggs either got destroyed, or hatched. If Gleam and these hatched eggs have been alive since 1320 AE, then they’d seem to be a bigger threat than this final egg that’s not yet hatched. I think the mordrem are after the egg only due to chance of opportunity due to its sudden proximity.
So basicaly I denied option that I wanted to be true and belived just for option that I really wasn’t like, but was more "realistic’’ cuz things that we don’t wanna at end always happens to come true:) it is good twist in my thoughts. Thanks.
I was always supicious cuz of that wyld hunt to cleans orr of firstborn treaherne and to defeat zhaitan of caithe, firstborn too.
Question about that cunning ogden:
Get ogden “stoned”? cuz in eotn he was definitely flash thingy, he refuse to ritual. is that ritual so easy to cast again or he changed mind and whoops stone dwarven happens w/o need to perfom again or when dwarvens age they just become that rusty.Master E and “they” that ogden mysteriously talks about get my interest.
Apologies, it’s a bit hard to understand your posts.
You say that the orb crashing into the center (Tyria) being Mordremoth is more realistic, but in all honesty it sounds more realistic and plausible for it to be Zhaitan, who’s death means his magic will seep back into the world – which according to lore from Hidden Arcana, can result in the world becoming chaotic and unyielding. I am not denying you any interpretation though. The lore the developers made would be. So if you’re angry at me – and I can’t tell if you are or aren’t – then… I apologize?
A lot of people are suspicious of the Wyld Hunts being sent to fight the other Elder Dragons. But keep in mind that Wyld Hunts do not come from Mordremoth, and the sylvari PC now has a Wyld Hunt to kill Mordremoth. It’s also been confirmed that Mordremoth utilizes Wyld Hunts – and Dark Hunts given by the Nightmare – to bypass the protections of the Dream/Pale Tree. So it would appear that neither Dream nor Nightmare (and in turn, neither Wyld Hunt nor Dark Hunt) are related to Mordremoth. It is not unlikely that we’ll be having Nightmare Courtiers fighting alongside us for their Dark Hunt also results in them fighting mordrem/Mordremoth.
Ogden did undergo the Rite of the Great Dwarf. As he said in Eye of the North, he will eventually but not yet – this was done to keep him as a hero, no doubt, due to the changed mentality making it odd in lore for him to continue following the GW1 PC. Per dialogue from Ogden during the norn Personal Story, ALL living dwarves – even Stone Summit – underwent the Rite 200-some years prior to the Personal Story.
It’s unclear how easy the Rite is to cast, but the only component there seemed to be was the Hammer of the Great Dwarf and some fancy words. Either way, the rite was utilized at least once again, on the remaining dwarven race.
Strongest bodies of power that we were able to see. What if there are even stronger bodies or equal to dragons or even other ED, but being “relatively” close to “ours” ED we can’t see what is besides, we can’t see full picture of The Eternal Alchemy, the all.
I have in my mind mursaats and one ritual and we see them. Unseen start to become in our eyes real things and in our minds mursaat as race are just spellcasters and soul utilizers.
Everything can come with power and knowledge. So speculate, predict, imagine. Act with wisdom, but act.
Given Ogden’s lines during Hidden Arcana about the Eternal Alchemy and The All (they are not the same), it’s possible there’s ‘more we can’t see’ out there. But the Apostate’s lore and Ogden’s dialogue indicates that there are six bodies of power in perfect balance and the removal of one can lead to worldly destruction (killing Zhaitan? Bad idea) – any additional bodies of power would be separate from these six.
The mursaat’s invisibility was a case of them hiding part-way in the Mists. Souls can do the same, and naturally reside in this spirit realm. Ascension and Weh no Su are obtained from different methods, but hold the same results – being able to see into the spirit realm (aka part of the Mists that overlap with Tyria). We even see this spirit realm in the norn Personal Story, Defend the Mists bio option. I can’t imagine that this is in any way related to being able to see all of The All or not.
I’ve always taken the song to be referring to the fight against Zhaitan. Various reasons:
It’s also possible that the song refers to the plight against the Elder Dragons in general – Zhaitan and Mordremoth aren’t the only ones who utilize darkness. Kralkatorrik blocks out the sun with continuous thunderstorms (known to us as the Brandstorm), and the land he corrupts is constantly darker than all other land, looking like nighttime even during the height of the day.
in Account & Technical Support
Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086
I have character model quantity down to low all the time. I also don’t have names displayed all the time (I habitually press ctrl anyways when looking or enemies anyways). So no, I don’t.
Sometimes I do for Claw of Jormag. But only in high times.
I always do for sandstorm in Dry Top though.
And this is due to internet more than graphics, I think. Back when I lived in Chicago over a year ago, I could run ANYTHING in GW2 max settings. Even Claw and Tequatl.
We still see demons. Just not torment demons or Margonites, though I doubt that all torment demons are gone.
Keep in mind that there are several kinds of demons. In GW2, we see three kinds of demons: Nightmares (Shades, Aatxes, Shadow Behemoth), imps, and fleshreavers.
In GW1 we had those three and: titans, torment demons, dryders, and Margonites.
Supposedly, only Margonites got wiped out, as they were humans turned into demons by Abaddon. If any survived, it’d be The Lost and The Apostate. You may recognize the latter’s name from Hidden Arcana.
I wonder which one will be harder to do. Implementing S1 episodes as journal chapters or as fractal levels. As a veteran player I’m willing to accept them as fractal levels more. Obviously both ways will be simplified of course especially for the journal. Most of the episodes were group content so fractals sounds good to me. Can’t wait to replay The Tower of Nightmares, The Battle of LA and few others.
So from a developing stand point which one will be easier?
I’m betting fractals. Here’s why:
So balance, location creation, and even scripting all differ much more as fractals.
I did mention an 8,000 year reign as a possibility, but this implies that the dearven civilization came into being at the end of that 8,000 years of corruption and destruction across the globe.
By all indications, the only reason why there is such a strong force fighting back this time is that there were survivors in any form last time (thus able to pass on, albeit unheeded or warped, knowledge) with the Bloodstone preventing the ED from reigning as long as they otherwise would have, and the fact that Glint has been preparing for those thousands of years (be it 3,000 or 11,000) – I highly doubt that such preparation culminated in the events of Edge of Destiny novel, because that’d be rather pathetic for a being who made scarily accurate prophecizing 800 years in advance of GW1’s events.
Kossage, the reasons you came up with that speculation is precisely why Scarlet is terrible writing.
And the only way to fix it is to shoehorn in some higher power that subtly influenced everything around her. Which just proves how badthe storywriting was.
Stop stomping on my dreams! XD
At this point it makes no sense for there to be more Elder Dragons. We’ve seen The All, which is Tyria and its strongest bodies of power – that tie to the ED.
There are only six such bodies of power.
Doesn’t mean there can’t be non-Elder Dragon dragons out there (see: Kuunavang). And it doesn’t mean that there can’t be replacement Elder Dragons (see: Tequatl). But there’s no more than six Elder Dragons.
Then again, don’t be too quick to dismiss some interpretations, because as i said, we’re trying to guess, we are not in the head of creative teams of GW lore^^
I’m not so much dismissing the idea of opposition amongst the Elder Dragons themes, but rather saying that we don’t really have much to argue such. With a lot of stretching – about as much as the whole ‘gods = dragons’ theories in their many many forms – you can make Zhaitan and Mordremoth parallels like you did, but you can’t so easily do this for the others.
Plants are the epitome of the notion of life, because they don’t need sustenance except minerals, light and water. (Bacterias apart, the first sign of life we look for is vegetation isn’t it?)
While true, this is only because of their immobility (or rather, very slow movement). Sylvari are outright stated to require more food than normal plants because of their activeness; mordrem would be no different.
In that sense, it’s not Plant vs Death, but something more akin to Birth Vs Decay.
The typical argument is life v death :P
The same happens when we look at the Mind Vs Shadow, albeit even more strange and unintuitive.
The Risen are all “For Zhaitan”, “Zhaitan will have your soul”, “Zhaitan FTW” etc…
And the whole point of Scarlet’s FB was to show us that she was persuaded to be the one in command, doing what she wanted for herself, etc…It intrigues me, because it looks like Zhaitan was imposing his will to his minions, by force, contrary to Mordremoth, who seems to use more subtle ways, like instilling doubts, showing traumatic images, etc…but never encourages his minions to shout :“Mordremoth Rulz”…at least not straight from the beginning of the corruption process (the only speaking minions of Mordremoth we encoutered are until now Scarlet, Aerin, and the mordrem guards from the beta, and these look like they’ve been under Mordy for a longer time)
Mordremoth imposes his will too, just in a different method.
It should be noted, however, that prior to Mordremoth’s rise Jormag was explicitly stated to be the only Elder Dragon to not enslave but rather coerce willing converts. Khrigar Ripjaw tells such to Order of Whispers agents (“That’s what makes Jormag different. Other dragons corrupt creatures in order to enslave them, but Jormag entices victims with promises of power before they’re corrupted.”) – and this isn’t just in reference to the Sons of Svanir, but in general (promises of power was why the jotun under Korag went to follow Jormag). That means that Zhaitan, Kralkatorrik, and Primordus all does this ‘enslavement’ method of corruption; the DSD may or may not, lack of information on it overall should exempt him from the statement, and Mordy’s state at the time should exempt him too.
Unfortunately, Kralkatorrik is on the side of The All as Mordy and Jormag, so one can’t argue that the two sides is what makes one side being controlling and the other subverting.
In the end, they both corrupt willpower, but not in the same way.
The same can be said for ALL Elder Dragons. Every Elder Dragon has shown capable of corrupting the same things, but how they do it, how their corruption takes form, and how their minions act all differ. They share the same basic fundamentals (which, I’d like to note, sylvari lack 100% on each and every case except sexual reproduction), while they have different outlying aspects (and even that differs between sylvari and mordrem).
Accroding to wiki which sphere is Dark Green : Zhaitan, and which is Lime Green: Mordremoth. Imo in the centre is going Mordremoth one cuz of actual events. I like to consider that free magic after defeat of Zhaitan backs to world, to the centre, source – something like that, but it is probably not the case, cuz everything that devs done was to set stage for expansion and mordremoth. Final assume: mordemoth orb is going in the centre, that is how I know now what mean Lime Green = Flashy Green, so Dark Green actualy means Weathered Green.
A lot of people thought the orb crashing into the middle was Mordremoth. But the Durmand Priory’s depiction of the All lines up with Zhaitan being the crashing orb (this is where the wiki gets that).
The center is Tyria, and Zhaitan’s orb crashed into it spreading shadow.
Rather than ‘setting up the expansion’ the cinematic seems to be ‘setting up the reprocussions of the main story’ – given all lore from Hidden Arcana and other parts of Season 1 and Season 2, killing Zhaitan was a very, very bad move.
The annoying thing is that those who knew kitten would hit the fan post-Z’s death are our allies, and were pressing us to kill him.
Makes you rather suspicious of Ogden and the Pale Tree.
But each dragon still has one and only one string that connects it to another dragon.
It might not be rivalry, or antagonism, but there is certainly a reason for that particular link.
The bold is what you’re lacking any form of support for.
The shape is just 6 orbs around a central orb. Shift the positions of the orbs a bit and you suddenly get the Star of David. There is no ‘certainty’ to any form of link other than all six are part of The All, which encompasses Tyria and several bodies of power which the Elder Dragons appear to be connected to.
All there is, in all honesty, is conspiracy theories. Which doesn’t mean they’re wrong, but it just means there’s no form of certainty.
the wiki clearly states
The wiki is edited by players on a daily basis. It is and has been and likely always will be full of player speculation and more commonly interpretation muddled amongst fact.
At that moment, I think that in order to keep that specific order the Apostate talked about , Some Dragons awaken when one is becoming predominent, and in the end, a stalemate is established, with no Dragon claiming a higher position than the others.
But until Zhaitan’s death, there were five dragons awake and active.
Your argument makes no sense for Mordremoth to wake up specifically because of Zhaitan’s death, when no other parallelism amongst the dragons that one may be able to conjure up results in a similar scenario.
P.S: Actually, i started this thread because i believed that if some kind of antagonist link could be made between 2 dragons, then it might be possible to determine the sphere of influence (easy one) and also the mean and philosophy behind the corruption for each dragon (that one is hard)
Just comparing Zhaitan to Mordremoth – the ‘easiest’ to determine should there be any form of opposites amongst the dragons – there is no relation between plant and mind with death and shadow.
if Jormag is ice, rock-solid (aka strong), and corrupts by promises of power
then Bubbles would be water, liquid (aka something with no real form), and corrupts by…
It would be nice to be able to guess^^
Ice is oft rather brittle, actually – including icebrood ice. Which creates an interesting irony to ‘follow Jormag to become strong’.
And the DSD’s corruption has – by all indication – taken the form not of water, but tentacled creatures. It twists water into something else.
People believe that the Murssat are returning in HoT. So we might get them then.
believe you say. they were in the first trailer.
We’ve had no true confirmation one way or the other. There are other possibilities. Hell, those might not even be the supposed Exalted the masteries are about.
It’s all player speculation at this point.
Do we know that the Jotun have survived multiple rising? I’d assume it worked in a similar way to Mass Effects and the Reapers, in ME the reapers ignore less developed species and only cull the advanced ones. I’d assume that many races who have not yet developed a sufficient magical proficiency would be able to survive (although barely) during a rising as a result of them not having anything the EDs are interested in (like magic). So I’d assumed given the 10,000 years period that in the 10,000 preceding the previous rising is when they rose to sufficient magical proficiency to draw the attention of the EDs.
Despite the fact they’re both cyclic world enders, the Reapers and Elder Dragons aren’t very similar.
Reapers, as you said, targeted civilized races. They only destroyed cities of worlds capable of space flight and those races who used such technologies. They ignored wildlife, let ecosystems remain in tact, etc.
The Elder Dragons, however, do not. They target wildlife, they twist landscapes, and then they go after civilized races by all indication.
The jotun have stories of multiple dragonrises – this indicates that they have at least heard of one prior to the previous one, but more likely survived such – this would place them to be around, with enough culture to maintain stories, back in 20,000 BE if the “every 10,000 years” claim from the Priory is accurate.
But here’s the thing:
These seven facts do not add up.
There are only two possible actions to make these line up:
That we know of. They could rise in shifts, have separate groups rising at different times. So each group is relative small but overall they can be fairly numerous. It’s not unprecedented https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivQaJwFRowc .
We’ve been told numerous times that there are only six Elder Dragons, however.
The original cinematic showed Mordy underground and given that in HoT one of the biomes will be underground / roots there is some argument to be made that Mordy is also underground, just not as far underground as Primordus. Mind you he hasn’t even awoken yet, so its unsure if he’s natural state is to be underground like Primordus.
It wasn’t deep underground, however. So he’d be no more underground than Zhaitan is implied to have been (he couldn’t push up a peninsula and burst out of its surface from ground level).
Primordus was so far underground that most of the surface didn’t even know he existed until long after he rose (there’s a line in Sea of Sorrows where a person indicates that Jormag is the only known Elder Dragon shortly after Zhaitan’s rise, when Zhaitan’s existence is still questioned in the novel).
And Mordremoth is awake – he woke up at the end of S1. Not all cataclysms happen instantly. Jormag took four years to cause all of his mayhem. We’re experiencing his cataclysmic awakening ‘now’ – nearly 2 years after he woke up.
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