Guild Wars 2

Daniel Handler.4816:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Branded

“They are also drawn by the energies which the chaotic storms of the Dragonbrand, dubbed Brandstorms, exude”

That’s community wording. Take it from an actual source or take it only with a grain of salt.

That line actually reads, to me, as meaning erratic, unpredictable – which I believe is said by the NPCs. Being erratic does not make Kralkatorrik’s core concept “chaos”.

Daniel Handler.4816:

You don’t know the gods aspects as they were in the very beginning because nothing in the game tells you. You only see the aspects as they built Orr. It is entirely possible that before Grenth was born, Dwayna held the aspect of ice. If the aspect of water moved, I see no reason why it couldn’t have happened then. Nor do you know how many times aspects have shifted before Orr. And if it becomes too much of an issue then just give Grenth to Jormag (ice), and Dwayna to Zhaitan (rebirth/undeath, basically raising the dead)

We actually do have lore of Dwayna pre-Grenth, and nothing about her changed with Grenth’s rise.

But why would the gods be related to the Elder Dragons in any form? When the gods 1) are not native to the world while the dragons are, and 2) came to the world already as gods?

Daniel Handler.4816:

Then to avoid making the discussion stale, lets return to the topic of Mordremoth. Jormag, Kralkatorrik, and Primordius are all awake. They have all been consuming magic for some time now. Why does it seem like Mordremoth is so much stronger, even at a just waking stage?

Every dragon wakes with a big bang, so to speak. Jormag, Zhaitan, Kralkatorrik all did – Primordus probably did but he was too far underground to feel it; same with the DSD except too far away underwater.

Furthermore, Mordremoth got fed a mouthfood of breakfast-in-bed ley line magic. The only other dragon to get something close wsa Zhaitan, who had a kingdom of corpses and magical artifacts (which he was still corrupting 100 years later).

Finally, Mordremoth has a unique attribute in that he can tunnel his minions underground – unnoticed by the majority of the world and races, but not so far underground as to affect/encounter destroyers. So mordrem can literally appear right behind all your defenses, because you didn’t dig deep enough – while the other dragons couldn’t do this (sans Primordus, but again, too far from surface and had a full race of stone dwarfs to counter him).

assasin oates.3018:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

known to players as Bone Dragons (their zombie forms). And one can probably count the recently discovered with HoT Wyverns.

Could Bone Dragons be reanimated Wyverns perhaps? Similar body shape but I get the impression Bone Dragons did have back legs

No. Bone Dragons once had six limbs like typical dragons per their lore – but when they rose their strength was too great that their rotting body could not handle the stress and the back half broke off. This is why it looks like their body is incomplete – because it is.

Furthermore, even if their look was complete, their legs would be in a greatly improper place to be wyverns (and imbalanced at that).

250 per elite specialization as of last HoT beta per dat diving.

Nightangel.3947:

This article talks about map bonuses to provide a directed activity in search of your legendary materials needed. Yet Silver Doubloons are specific to lower level characters, will this system include Doubloons into the map bonuses regardless of level? Will other methods open up for farming these Doubloons for the intended max level character?

Map rewards go off of the map’s levels, not character levels. We’ve already seen some dat divers pull out the full non-HoT/SW/Dry Top list of map rewards (presuming no change since).

If you want a material for level 21-35 characters, go to a map that includes levels 20-35 on a week that gives the material you’re after.

The images come from the gw.dat, I’ve done the same myself for GW1 (though in GW1 they were wtf huge and oddly wide, which resulted in often squished loading screens). In the dat, that’s the size they are stored.

vanderwolf.7084:

Also a note. The longer you’re in the mists physical changes can happen.

Uhm… Source?

I don’t think this has ever been stated. Closest thing is that souls go mad from being in the Realm of Torment for too long. But that’s to be expected – if you’re tortured for so long, you eventually break.

Unfortunately that’s because that’s the default resolution from the game. The loading screen literally takes those and increase the size – losing quality in the process – and puts the boarders around it.

You might find some screenshot ones if you dig through the histories of images, though.

6:66 am

You heard it here first folks.

We know the gods’ aspects as they were. We know the dragons’ aspects (or at least half of the two). Yet they don’t align.

Still doesn’t change the fact that ArenaNet placed an object in game debunking this. As has been said many times already.

And I didn’t get better results at all. Still shows up nothing.

Why don’t you provide a source for this, since clearly the wiki – and all my research into it – results nothing.

Technically what I said – or intended to get across – was that the arguments people made for sylvari being dragon minions didn’t add up to what dragon minions are.

And they still don’t. Sylvari are unique amongst dragon minions – probably due to the constant revisions they got to avoid the reveal being too obvious (so we were told happened).

I’d just like to note that nothing actually says Saul was taken into the Maguuma Jungle. It only says “into a forest” that was “weeks ride” away from Beetletun. We don’t even know if that ‘ride’ was by carriage… or by boat.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Kralkatorrik create brandstorms which have been described as chaos storms.

Eh… no they aren’t.

The ONLY relation there is between Kralkatorrik and chaos magic is that the Noxious Branded Plants in Lowland Burn create a half-chaos storm effect, in that it applies random conditions (seemingly) to those near it.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Taking your generation idea. At some point it is possible you had.
Dhuum for death-zhaitan
Lyssa for chaos magic-kralkatorrik
Dwayna for ice-jormag
Balthazar for fire-primordius
Melandru for nature-mordremoth
Abbadon/or his predecessor for water-bubbles

Except that Dwayna is still not ice, and Kralkatorrik is still not chaos. And that ignores Kormir, who has zero relation to any of the dragons.

You can’t just take a piece of the information and point “this is it!” unless you’re a lawyer trying to argue a guilty man’s innocence because once the rest of the information is brought out, you’re screwed and your argument falls to pieces.

Daniel Handler.4816:

But the possibility still arises that he originals each held an aspect of one of the elder dragons.

The game already debunked the theory – as I pointed out in my post, if you even bothered to read it beyond the generations part.

Daniel Handler.4816:

When one watches the trailer it shows the creation of a one of the minions. Are these the same minions who are corrupted sylvari?

That does appear to be a Mordrem Guard.

Daniel Handler.4816:

And does mordremoth actually have a physical body? I am aware the other dragons are flesh and blood. But perhaps his “body” is reduced in tangible size. After all it is called the “heart” of thorns.

Given we don’t even see Mordremoth in the trailer, he likely will have a body.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Perhaps this is a language issue. But it seemed as if you were saying I later denied I even made the argument. If you are using it in the logic sense that I negated my own earlier statement, then realise that the quality of an argument is more important than the quantity.

That is what you did, and what I’ve been saying. The argument you made at the beginning you later said you did not make.

Which is why I’m saying that the quality of your argument begins to sound like you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing, and not because you actually believe what your fingers are typing.

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t know why we are arguing the linguistic difference between solar or star. Its weird that when I make the statement lunar or solar you focus incredibly on proving that celestials used solar magic, while ignoring any of the lunar magic oddities and the fact that lunar=/=star.

By my understanding both the druid’s magic and celestial magic utilizes the same concept:

Light from the sky.

In this case, then lunar, solar, and star magic would indeed be the same – because the source is irrelevant here, the fact that light exists in the sky is.

The point in my argument was that creating a distinction is pointless as there is none. Nowhere in the druid article is it called “solar magic” or “lunar magic” – we just have solar and lunar themed skill names. As well as astral (star) themed skill names.

Daniel Handler.4816:

I agree with the fact that the sun is a star. What I also believe is that you are assuming something of tyrian mythology.

In Japanese mythology, Amaterasu is the goddess of the sun, and she is at the head of her pantheon. Amatsu-Mikaboshi is the star god, and far lesser in power and importance. You assume that because the sun is a star, that all star spirits can perform sun magic.

Daniel Handler.4816:

You are correct on glyph attributes, I misread the wiki. At the same time. The skill used be specific to elementalist alone, and some of them were attributes of their profession. Mesmers and Necros have always been on the same tier as spellcasters. Rangers and Elementalists were not. After 250 years rangers can perform some of their Rituals instantly. They seem to have become more efficient at casting their spells, but the complexity of the spells have not increased. The power level between a druid and a ranger is much higher than any other class and their elite specialization. They are raised to spellcaster tier suddenly.

Traps were unique to rangers in GW1. Yet now they are used by thieves and suddenly guardians.

Mesmers were not on the same tier as spellcasters as Necromancers. Their magic are two completely different spheres – two different schools of magic, two different magical energies.

Rangers in GW1 could practice elementalism – see dual professions – and in the time since GW2 they only became even more magically adept. Your argument makes no sense.

Daniel Handler.4816:

There is no before cantha as far as history is concerned.

My point was that celestials predate Cantha and thus trying to link Celestials solely to Cantha is foolhardy and incorrect. Nothing prevents the Celestial teachings to have been passed down to ancient Krytans from before the Exodus and only remembered by a single offshoot of them – the druids.

Daniel Handler.4816:

It is implied that humans were brought by the gods to cantha, and spread out from there.

Nowhere is that implied in what you quoted. In fact, we outright know that humans lived on another land before Cantha – see this interview as ONE source. And the fact that humans arrived on the coastline of Cantha implies travel by ship.

They were brought to the world by the gods, then placed somewhere else, and by all indication sailed out to Cantha, Tyria, and Elona at a later date.

The wiki has a number of these loading screens. Have a shift through here for them.

Edit: This category for solely LW loading screens.

CureForLiving.5360:

Calcifire.1864:

is it possible that glint’s seeming “immunity” to recorruption was from the Forgotten ritual?

No so far it seem you can’t be double corrupted (as also is the case with Sylvari), without scientific intervention. Glint was already corrupted by Kralky. Sure she was freed, but retained some of the physical corruption.

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Depending on your interpretation, you can take the Pale Tree’s lines to sylvari during Rallying Call (S2E3’s first instance) to indicate that it is the Dream that prevents sylvari corruption – and that only Mordremoth can bypass it.

Of course, until we toss a Soundless into the Dragonbrand and wait, we can’t really tell which interpretation is accurate.

CureForLiving.5360:

I think this might be a bit of semantics. If Forgotten magic is immune to dragon corruption it would seem that they’d have done a lot better against the EDs during the last rise (also would be EDs be able to consume their magic? i.e. would be bloodstones have been necessary for them). Or is it rather that they developed means of warding off ED minions and corruption.
Unless you have a link (very likely I imagine)?

Arah’s Forgotten path, the Wraithlord and its minions can’t destroy or corrupt the magically-infused Forgotten artifacts we find before the ritual (a vase and a book).

CureForLiving.5360:

I think it’s a bit more nuanced than that. Sons of Svanir probably demonstrate the most free will (initially at least), and several of Zhaitan’s champions demonstrate a lot of autonomy (granted autonomy in as far as their actions ultimately serve the dragon). So I’d say it’s more of a spectrum. No minion is ever truly free, but not all minions are not as mindless as the run of the mill cannon fodder.
Although I guess ‘free will’ has always been a bit of a tricky subject. Debatably a champion dragon minion has as much free will as any human being. Or not.

Firstly, Sons of Svanir aren’t dragon minions.

But more importantly, on the matter of champions – they do have a level of autonomy, but all indication shows that they are still just as different from the living state as any other dragon minion. Take Captain Whiting from Sea of Sorrows. In life, he was a timid introverted person who was hesitant to serve his king, while as a dragon champion he was harsh, constantly-talking individual who constantly worked for Zhaitan’s benefit.

All dragon champions seem to exhibit similar approaches – their actions always benefit their dragon, they serve their dragon, but they have a choice in the “how” to serve… while the cannon fodder as you call them don’t.

CureForLiving.5360:

He might be a bundle of vines (as indicated by the launch trailer)

I believe it was confirmed that the thing at the end of the trailer was NOT Mordremoth.

Daniel Handler.4816:

balthazar/primordius aspect of fire

lyssa/kralkatorrik aspect of purple chaos magic

grenth/zhaitan aspect of death

dwayna/jormag, this was the only difficult one to make an association, with ice and death clearly going to grenth. but then one may remember that grenth is the son of dwayna. The previous death god had no aspect of ice, so one can assume the ice part came from dwayna. She is also associated with snow.

melandru/mordremoth aspect of plants

kormir/bubbles aspect of water and secrets(and bubbles is definitely shrouded in secrecy)

I completely agree with you that the elder dragon =/= the gods. However don’t rush and say they clearly aren’t related.

1. Kralkatorrik has no relation to chaos. Three dragons have thus far related to purple (Kralkatorrik, Zhaitan, Mordremoth). Aside from color, there’s no relation between Kralkatorrik and Lyssa. And before release, Jeff Grubb was asked if there’s a relation between Kralkatorrik and Abaddon due to the color purple – Grubb responded with “purple is the color of evil in Guild Wars”. So that connection is false.
2. There’s nothing about air or life in Jormag, and nothing about ice/snow in Dwayna. Only god related to ice/snow is Grenth – but wait, you have him tied to Zhaitan, the dragon of death and shadow!
3. Kormir has no relation to water, Lyssa took that over, and the DSD has no relation to knowledge.

And then you forget about Dhuum, Abaddon, and Abaddon’s predecessor. If the “dragons = gods” then there should not be six Elder Dragons, but 9!

You could try to argue that Dwayna=Zhaitan, Grenth=Jormag, but wait! Dhuum had no connection to ice. Ice is personal to Grenth, just as water changed between the gods.

You can try to relate Lyssa to DSD via water, but if we go back 250 years that relation has to change into Abaddon to DSD. So then where does Lyssa lie? Kralkatorrik is crystal – and potentially sky.

If you take that potentially sky to link Kralkatorrik and Dwayna, then once more we have Grenth with two dragons, Lyssa with none.

One could argue that Jormag’s second, unconfirmed, aspect is spirit – which then can make it possible to link to Kormir, Goddess of Knowledge, Order, and Spirit. However, Abaddon had no aspect of spirit.

When you look at the gods, the only aspect to remain between generations seems to be the primary aspect of their godhood: Life, War, Death, Nature, Illusion, and Knowledge.

There is no dragon of life. There is no dragon of war. There is no dragon of illusion. There is no dragon of knowledge.

If you scratch the surface, not caring about the fact that the gods have had generations and in these generations what they are god of changes (except for one aspect), and go with arbitrary and stretching things like “dwayna=air, jormag=cold wind” (which isn’t true) or “lyssa+kralkatorrik=the color purple” (so is Abaddon, Mordremoth, and Zhaitan), then yeah you can make an argument that seems like they’re related.

But once you take into the fact that aspects changed for the gods while they didn’t for the dragons, or that color doesn’t matter for kitten, you end up with a big mess.

This is such an overdone argument that it even got referenced ingame, and debunked:

A scholarly argument for the symmetry between Elder Dragons and the human gods. Unfortunately, by the end, it is clear that no proof exists to support this theory.

CureForLiving.5360:

It’s possible that all the Elder Dragons are like that. Zhaitan could simply have been a mind / will inhabiting a body made of a conglomeration of dragon corpses. Jormag might simply compose his body from ice and Primordius from rocks and lava.
Although I think Kralky might not fit too well (depending on how they described him in the book which I haven’t read).

Kralkatorrik bleeds, but his blood crystallizes and he can turn his body into a literal sandstorm.

And given we see Primordus in the flesh, while coated with stone we see his very fleshy eye open at the end of Eye of the North. We also see Jormag’s tooth, which is far from ice though perpetually colder than its surroundings given the mist that comes off of it (like dry ice).

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t understand your first remark. How does this have anything to do with me “claiming the original argument never existed”.

Your first comment was that celestial magic has no place in lore. Which you then denied the argument of later on.

Daniel Handler.4816:

So now rangers are making contact with the ascended souls of humans? That makes total sense.

No one ever said that, but it’s entirely possible.

My point was that

Daniel Handler.4816:

Nothing came from from my rear.
“A glyph is a type of skill and are used to alter the effects of the next one or more spells cast.” -http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Glyph
Ergo metamagic. And they all fell under elementalist’s classed based attribute.
Signets are implied to require almost no magical aptitude, but still remain magical in nature.

Mechanical function don’t define lore. Also, most glyphs fell under the ‘no attribute’ line in GW1.

There was 1 Air Magic Glyph, 1 Fire Magic Glyph, 3 Energy Storage Glyphs, and 8 No Attribute Glyphs.

So no, glyphs don’t “all fell under elementalists’ classed based attribute”. Not even half fall under any elementalist attribute.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Second a sun is a star but not all stars are suns. I get you are trying to claim that celestial used star magic. But technically its not solar magic unless its of a star that had planets orbiting it.

Let me put it this way:

All solar magic is star magic.

Not all star magic is solar magic.

Daniel Handler.4816:

It would make more sense if the celestials were not canthan.

They’re not – or rather, they’re not exclusively Canthan. The Celestial Pig, Chong, is from a time when humans were new on the world of Tyria. That means he’s from whatever land humans lived on before Cantha. Most likely, given our current lore, Sunrise Crest/Sunken Isles.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Is the druid suppose to be an enhancement of a rangers ability to interact with the spirit world? Can they give some explanation. Not of what Druids were in Gw1 which apparently was not celestials. But can they explain where this is coming from?

Most likely we’ll get that explanation in 2 months time, when HoT comes out. Anet outright stated that they disliked how they didn’t include profession lore in the core game and intend to do such with revenants and elite specializations. Hence why we see something like Marjory becoming a Reaper. Hence why two of the elite spec names and themes come from lore.

Mursaat predate the human race by a few thousand years. That kind of debunks the age old theory of them being ascended humans.

Not to mention that we have minor but clear differences between the two – e.g., number and size of toes.

Teaching another a kind of magic is vastly different than transforming their body into a new race – let alone the entire race predating what they supposedly originally were.

Weh no Su – translation being Closer to the Stars – is the exact same thing as Ascension but with slightly different flavor to it. So no, Druids and Weh no Su are not the same thing. Unless the whole plot revolves around Ascension, it wouldn’t make sense for one profession to undergo it and others to not and even then it still wouldn’t be the same.

It should be noted that the Celestials of Cantha is not inherently tied to Weh no Su so much as the other way around – Celestials can exist without Weh no Su practices and trials.

There may be a relation between druid and celestials, but not likely to Weh no Su.

Though it does make me wonder about that header that they gave – Closer to the Stars.

Daniel Handler.4816:

I truly fail to see where I claim this.

Your very first post…

Daniel Handler.4816:

Avatars are by no means limited to the gods. However, no other profession beyond dervish has had the ability to become an avatar of something else.

Norn.

Besides, aside from the name “avatar” this is nothing more than a transformation skill that alter’s ones skills and capabilities – no different from lich form in concept.

Daniel Handler.4816:

There is a different implication between you transforming into something, and you becoming an avatar of something. Avatar’s of Grenth spoke as Grenth.

No, the Avatar of Grenth spoke as the Avatar of Grenth.

Daniel Handler.4816:

A glyph was metamagic.

Care to provide a source for this, or are you just pulling it out of your rear end?

Nothing really indicated that, aside from mechanics, glyphs were any more different than signets.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Ele’s specialty was energy manipulation. Ranger has always been on the low tier of the classes with blatantly magically abilities.

Since GW2, rangers have been using the same field of magic as elementalists (elemental/nature-based magic). It’s not really a stretch to argue that they become capable of similar things elementalists are when they delve even more into magic.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Um. Solar refers to of the sun.

And what’s the sun?

That’s right. A star!

Amazing!

Daniel Handler.4816:

We are still once again left with the question of how rangers are contacting canthan demigods.

Celestials are not demigods. They’re ascended souls of humans.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Where the sudden power bump for rangers is coming come I don’t know. Of all the professions. They alone gain abilities that do not upgrade, or alter, an existing mechanic.

Half of the druid’s magic is plant based. The other is celestial based.

That falls in line with ranger more than any other profession out there.

Ah, that old theory…

Which falls apart once you move past Balthazar/Primordus and Melandru/Mordremoth.

I disagree about the physical similarities. Honestly that thing looked like a vine-based Shadow Behemoth.

Amraston.2846:

Caladbolg, a thorn of the pale tree, is as grown from her as a sylvari, ergo it can be corrupted.

Honestly, this comparison sounds like comparing a breaking off a fingernail to giving childbirth to me.

Amraston.2846:

But its still possible that theres a ‘taint’ to the pale tree/caladbolg. In the cutscene you get from sylvari character creation is mentioned that something dark creeps in the dream, growing. Thats very likely to be Mordremoth corruption that already got hold of parts of the dream/the pale tree while she was growing and tapping with her roots deeper into the jungle -snip-

It always came off as referring to the Nightmare, which is a dark part of the Dream and has been growing thanks to the Nightmare Court. But it’s also been indicated lately to be unrelated to Mordremoth.

It’s been stated elsewhere that only sylvari can hear him. So while he’s talking in the trailer, Rytlock and co probably just her “grrrrrrrrrrrroar!”. Any nearby sylvari would hear “Who dare opposes me?”

I don’t think that thing at the end was Mordremoth’s actual body, but more of a construct created to let him see and interact – kind of an advanced Eye of Zhaitan sort of thing. One of the complaints about Zhaitan was that he was always distant, and there was no “spokesperson” figure to act as an upfront threat. What we see at the end of the trailer is likely to be ArenaNet’s answer to that for Mordremoth.

As for his statements at the beginning…

As EdwinLi said, all Elder Dragons seem to have a ‘god complex’ of sorts. This isn’t even the first time we see it firsthand – that was Kralkatorrik, in how he wishes to have everything/make everything a part of him and destroy what he cannot.

From the risen, we got that Zhaitan focused on two things: 1) Ruling his own land and people as a ‘king’ of sorts (both in risen sayings and how he had risen function, there was a clear chain of command and more importantly clearly defined roles that we haven’t yet seen with any other dragons – roles that mimic a working civilization), 2) seeking and granting eternal life through undeath.

With Jormag, we’re seeing a case of creating a world (whether those in the world opposes him or not) based on the idea of “the survival of the fittest” while also being worshiped as a god or god-like being.

Mordremoth had been a big mystery – until now. Though we learned that Aerin preached about the world’s destruction… curious line now that we have Mordremoth’s saying “I am this world.” But if I had to guess at Mordremoth’s psyche based off of this, I’d argue that he seeks to become the sole source of life.

As for his second and third line – “You are a part of me.” and “It’s time to come home.” – this is very clearly his call to sylvari, IMO.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Just because the premise of the original argument is faulty does not make the new argument incorrect.

But when you claim the original argument never existed, it does hinder your point.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Are you trying to say that druids learned how to channel celestial avatars from the humans who became avatars of the gods?

No, I’m saying that avatar magic isn’t all that unique as you make it out to be.

Daniel Handler.4816:

The entirety of their magic in gw1 had no basis in avatars, that was a dervish thing.

“Among the Dervish’s most precious secrets is that of transformation. The Dervish, when roused, may channel divine powers and change their form temporarily to become the physical embodiment of a god.”

So no one is answering how a ranger can now perform dervish magic. This just reminds me how stupid the racial elite is lorewise that suddenly thousands of humans can master dervish magic despite ANET’s insistence that mastering magic was like getting a PhD.

Nothing and no one says that druids use dervish magic.

I think you’re making a very fine mistake…

You seem to think that the term ‘avatar’ is unique unto the gods and the gods alone, and in turn unique unto the dervishes and the dervishes alone. This is not true in the least.

Avatar magic is merely temporary transformation. Almost every magical profession has a form of this – lich form, plague, tornado, moa form, all four norn transformations, etc. are all this.

Avatars are merely a representation of something bigger. Avatar magic is taking a temporary form of that something bigger. This is NOT unique to dervishes – you need to take that out of your head.

Dervishes were specialists in the magic, directed towards the forms of their gods, but not the only users of it.

Daniel Handler.4816:

The ranger can also now comprehend glyph magic, which used to be bound only to the elementalist and is not as rudimentary as a well or a trap.

And guardians can now use magical traps, and necromancers now learned how to raise their voice. And thieves learned how to throw daggers and punch really hard. Every profession learned something new.

Wells used to be unique solely to necromancers. Originally, they required a corpse to use. Now mesmers can use them? Not as rudimentary? I disagree.

Daniel Handler.4816:

The celestials you referenced do not use lunar or solar magic. Nor does it explain how the rangers have contacts to canthan demigods. Becoming an avatar of those creatures would give him the skills of another profession.

I was more referring to the skills Kuunavang blessed players with than Celestials. But to say they’re not solar? Do you know what solar means? Star. Celestials are stars.

Daniel Handler.4816:

So what celestials are the becoming avatars of?

Yet to be seen.

Daniel Handler.4816:

It is assumed that a revenant is simply a dervish that is forced to use ritualist magic when the gods go silent. They become avatar of spirits instead of gods.

Well, your assumption is wrong. Dervishes didn’t communicate with the Mists in any form.

Besides, we’ve been told about the details of revenant lore already. And it’s got nothing to do with dervishes.

Daniel Handler.4816:

The issue isn’t what druids can do. It’s what rangers can do.

The act of becoming an avatar is not what we considered to be under the ranger field of magic. It was always invocations of nature, not direct channeling.

So, what, humans can become the avatar of melandru or avatar of Grenth, regardless of profession – yes, including rangers – and necromancers can assume a large, spectral lich form. But rangers, already known to have magic across a wide range of elemental forces (from plants to earth to lightning to fire to ice to nature spirits) cannot do any such thing?

But your very opening was that druids had no ties to the stars. So now that you’ve been proven you can’t say that with certainty, you drop your original argument and adopt a new one?

It’s like saying mesmers can’t affect time!

And to your original argument that celestial magic has no place in lore: See Factions.

If you want to argue that druids have no relation to Factions: See the Wardens.

Rhaegar.1203:

So you’re saying that when Ronan found the seed, these pods were already pure?
…how!?
Let’s see, if we accept that Sylvari “come from the Dragon”, then the seed must come from him too, otherwise the race cannot stem from him. The fact that has been stated all over the announcements is that Mordremoth called, and many Sylvari answered.

The same way Glint was, or at least a similar way. I don’t see how the sylvari coming from the dragon statement is changed.

But let me throw what you said back at you:

So you’re saying that Ronan and Ventari purified those seeds?
…how!?

And on one note: nothing said anything about pods in the cave Ronan found the seeds. Just seeds and “plant monsters”.

Rhaegar.1203:

You are thinking only in black or white. What I pose is that, while the care of Ronan and then Ventari cleansed the Pale Tree, it was not complete. Something remained, that the Mother is constantly fighting. And Canach, the (Sylvari) PC and Laranthir, among others, clearly show that the call of Mordremoth CAN be resisted; so they are, in essence, free willed, but still can be tempted.

And who’s to say that Glint’s offspring differ?

Maybe that’s why Glint was alone when Destiny’s Edge came at her, and when Kralkatorrik came. She feared he would take control of any remaining Crystal Guardians, Crystal Spiders, or her eggs.

Besides, I don’t think I’m thinking in black and white. I fully agree with what you said – except for the notion that the Pale Tree was purified by the care of Ronan and Ventari. Too many contraditions.

First, we have the fact that other Pale Trees, not corrupted by Mordremoth, exist out there. Mainly, Malyck and his tree.

Second, we have the fact that dragon corruption results in the enslavement of will. This is why every dragon minion will fight for their dragon regardless of how much they hated the dragons before. You do not go from “we will kill the Elder Dragon and its minions!” to “Join Zhaitan and live eternally in undeath!” in a matter of seconds (literally) without some sort of mental enslavement (note: this situation was seen first hand with Bronn Svaar in Sea of Sorrows).

Third, we have nothing from Ronan and Ventari’s lives that indicate anything that would be powerful enough to give free will – no strange magics used. The only oddity is Ventari’s Tablet, but this is a mere piece of stone. Nothing special to it.

Rhaegar.1203:

If what you says is true, that R&V’s actions had nothing to do with the Pale Tree being “good”, then someone needs to edit http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pale_Tree. It clearly reads:

Wiki:

[…]He and the peaceful centaur Ventari then tended the young tree, and their attitudes and philosophy had a significant influence on her nature.[…]

Not only that, but once again, if we accept that Sylvari are Dragon minions, and yet they show free will and… resilience to his beckoning… then some sort of cleansing must have happened, even if it was partial.

Guidance != purification

When Glint was purified from the Forgotten, she did not instantly turn against Kralkatorrik. It wasn’t until she heard the thoughts of those she killed, as well as the thoughts of her master, that she realized that Kralkatorrik would lead to the world’s end, and that the races were suffering and should not (in her opinion) suffer.

Free will alone does not mean separation from the Elder Dragon’s goals or servitude. It merely gives the opportunity for that separation. And even that separation doesn’t necessitate that the freed minion will aid the races of the world – it could result in a dragon minion seeking to replace the Elder Dragon.

The Pale Tree was separated from Mordremoth at some point. But as she was raised, she was nurtured by Ventari’s teachings and took them as her own.

Rhaegar.1203:

Alright, that’s true, we gave it all that. Maybe it was one of the ingredients, or all combined. Or, you know, the empathy that the PC showed by jumping through hoops to give Mawdrey what it needed. The fact is, only one line is written about its conversion, and it’s the one I quoted on my previous post.

Only line? Not really. But every line about it is always about nurture. But here’s the curious part…

It only starts being kind after being fed the Foefire essence and Sacred Plant Food. Before that, the descriptions talk about the “carniverous plant” having a “wild streak” to it. Here’s the most interesting one:

This young carnivorous plant has a wild streak to it. A meal of purified Sacred Plant Food should help it grow to be more obedient.

The Sacred Plant Food is made by standard plant food and “Purified Vial of Sacred Glacial Water”. With the following description: This cool clear mineral water from a sacred glacier could purify and nourish a magically growing plant.

Hmmmm…..

Purifying water and Foefire essence… results in turning a hostile dragon minion into a calm one… Coincidence?

Rhaegar.1203:

You speak of Dragon corruption merely as a physical malady. ED also affect the mind, you have said so yourself: minions don’t have free will. King Reza was affected, Glint was affected, the risen chicken was affected. Restoring their free will did not remove their physical transformation (or decay), but perhaps there is no spell developed for that… yet.

First off, Reza’s soul was not corrupted. It was imprisoned. There’s a difference – Zhaitan never corrupted souls (unless you consider Risen Wraiths to be that), but instead imprisoned them in his stronger, smarter, minions. Reza’s body was corrupted, and was not freed from that corruption, but slain.

But I did not intend to mean that dragon corruption is only a physical malady – if that was so, then there wouldn’t be such an issue with it as there is. Dragon corruption is a two-fold act. And the Forgotten ritual did not reverse either by any indication.

As I said, Kralkatorrik somehow knew where exactly to find Glint upon awaking. Elder Dragons know what their minions and champions know, and can communicate with them. What if this communication was never severed – after all, Glint hearing Kralkatorrik’s thoughts is one of the things that drove her to rebel. So then, the Forgotten ritual did not cleanse her mind either. It merely gave her free will – and with that free will, she chose – but not immediately – to betray Kralkatorrik. And he would know the instant she decided such if that link wasn’t broken.

Daniel Handler.4816:

There is no history here.

And what history is there?

Look at everything we have on druids. And it amounts to almost nothing. We know as much about the druids as we do about The Order.

We know they were once human. We know they gave up their flesh and blood bodies to become spectral beings, to become closer to nature. We know that they consider themselves stewards of the Maguuma.

But nothing else.

We don’t know how they chose to shepard the life of the Maguuma. We don’t know their practices, their rituals (sans one, for divination), their teachings (sans one – “all are divine”). We don’t know what – if anything – they worshiped or revered.

We know practically nothing.

They’re as big of a mystery as Wizard’s Tower.

Define “taint” then.

To me, it would be corruption by Mordremoth in this case. But having been purified, the Pale Tree is thus taintless – and I would argue the rest of that cave was too, given the lack of indication of Ventari going and performing a grand ritual on the Pale Tree.

So if the Pale Tree is without taint, so too would anything she makes. And this is true – until they’re influenced by outside sources like the Dream, Nightmare, and Mordremoth. Though the Dream is “good” so there’s no indication of “taint” in a negative sense; the Nightmare and Mordremoth are different situations, but we’ve been told that the two are not linked and that the Nightmare Court don’t intend to follow Mordremoth.

I will stress that NOTHING indicates that the Pale Tree was freed “due to care of Ronan and later Ventari” – this is 100% player speculation that has been proven false time and time again. Dragon minions are slaves, it’s not a matter of proper raising or convincing (aka nurture). They don’t have free will. Something must give them that free will first.

And about Mawdrey – no, it is not an example. Why? Just look at all the stuff we feed it. Foefire magic, which is known to be immune to corruption and even counter act it (Kralkatorrik couldn’t corrupt the ghosts, and during A Grisly Shipment and Armor Guard ghostfire – from the Foefire – is used to fight risen and it is far more effective against risen than standard beasts). We have Mists magic. We have destroyer magic. We have a whole much of oddities being used. It could be any one of them – or the combination of it all – that allowed Mawdrey to be influenced by the PC and become “friendly”.

And dragon corruption isn’t removeable. The Forgotten path only gave Glint free will – it didn’t remove the transforming corruption. Same with Mawdrey – it still looks like a mordrem.

Calcifire.1864:

is it possible that glint’s seeming “immunity” to recorruption was from the Forgotten ritual?

Hmmm, it could go either way.

The Forgotten ritual only gave her free will, according to Warden Illyra. However, Forgotten magic is known to be immune to dragon corruption, so it could have also – without Illyra knowing – added a “cannot be corrupted again”.

But given that it only gave free will, Glint was still “technically” corrupted – being a creature of crystal still. She was, by all intents and purposes, still a branded. And can you make a branded out of a branded? Unclear. Was Glint ever separated from the ‘hive mind’ that Kralkatorrik has with its minions? Unclear – he did know where exactly to find her upon waking, after all. And I doubt she’d go taunting him in his sleep saying stuff like “when you wake up, I’ll be waiting in the Crystal Desert to kill you!”

Calcifire.1864:

we know that the dream is what protects sylvari from mordremoth, is it possible that the pale tree is protected from recorruption by the dream rather than an innate property of freed champions?

The thing about the Dream’s protection is that it kills those corrupted. That’s the sylvari “immunity” – they cannot walk around in corruption, they simply die rather than being transformed.

So it may not be along the same lines. If the indication of Glint’s lair’s survival is what I believe it to be.

Calcifire.1864:

we know from the sylvari that the offspring of a free dragon champion can be recorrupted, so what about caladbolg? it is a creation of the pale tree much like the sylvari, can it be corrupted too? what would happen if Trahearne got corrupted and used a corrupt caladbolg in Orr?

Caladbolg is literally a piece of the Pale Tree, while the sylvari are grown from her. So I would argue that if the Pale Tree cannot be recorrupted – as implied by Mordremoth trying to kill her instead of corrupt her – then I would also argue that Caladbolg cannot be recorrupted.

But if a mordrem were to use corruption in Orr, then by all indications the same would happen as if the mrodrem used corruption elsewhere – unless my theory above proves right, and Orr is “protected” from Mordremoth’s corrupted because it’s already “corrupted” but in a lighter way.

It should be noted that as we see with Glint’s and the Pale Tree’s magic versus Kralkatorrik’s and Mordremoth’s magic respectively, there’s a clear “light versus dark”.

Glint’s Lair and crystalline creatures in GW1 were bright blue and light, while Kralkatorrik’s crystals and creatures are dark purple and black. Glint’s air magic (used by Zephyrites) is bright and clear skies, while Kralkatorrik’s air magic results in a perpetual thunderstorm called the Brandstorm by Sentinels. Pale Tree’s plants grown are bright, light green, often thornless, while Mordremoth’s – like the Nightmare Court’s – are dark, hard-bark, covered with thorns, and sinister looking.

There’s a very clear distinction of “good versus evil” in these two purified champions’ magic compared to their original masters’ magic.

Rhaegar.1203:

While you raise interesting points, Konig, I actually think WP’s theory is a nice touch and an interesting plot thread to follow.

Perhaps.

But honestly, why would Mordremoth need Zhaitan’s corpse? He doesn’t use the corpses themselves, and he can use living beings as well.

Why wouldn’t Mordremoth merely create copies of himself?

Or maybe he has… and that’s what the Shadow of the Dragon is. A literal copy of “the Dragon” (aka Mordremoth). A shadow of the original.

Rhaegar.1203:

However, if we think of Caladbolg of something akin to the One Ring, something that was made with a taint (As the seed for the Pale Tree was) but that can be used with good intentions (albeit in the end will have evil consequences), then the possibility of Mordremoth vying for Orr’s control is not so remote.

But Caladbolg wasn’t made with a taint. No more than the Pale Tree itself as it is a literal piece of the Pale Tree.

Rhaegar.1203:

So, to summarize: Mordremoth did not plan to use Traherne and Caladbolg to wrestle Orr from Zhaitan’s control; but the Cleansing provided him with a way to invade, now that he’s awake, and probably aware of the power void left in the previously sunken human kingdom.

Would make more sense than WP’s theory, but would require him to be capable of corrupting the Pale Tree’s magic as he can corrupt the sylvari.

But there’s a certain difference between the two. Sylvari are sapient, and “willingly” takes in Mordremoth’s corruption through trickery (Mordremoth pretending his whispers are their own thoughts) – those sylvari with strong wills can resist… magic doesn’t have a will, but it isn’t sapient either. You can’t whisper an animate object to let you in.

So the question is… is the Pale Tree’s magic also protected by the Dream?

If it is, then there’d be no Wyld Hunt for Mordremoth to use as kitten in the protection, making it immune to him without direct recorruption.

If it isn’t, then there’d be nothing to stop Mordremoth from controlling it – but again, he’d have to directly (be it personally or via minions) recorrupt the magic.

Which then falls down to the question: can the Pale Tree – and by extension, her magic – be recorrupted?

WP’s theory hinges on the notion that the Cleansing Ritual that Trahearne used empowers Mordremoth. But there’s no reason for this to be – just like how Glint’s Lair, and her egg, remained separate from Kralkatorrik’s power it only makes sense for the same to be said of the Pale Tree’s power from Mordremoth. This would also explain why Mordremoth sought to kill/damage the Pale Tree, implying he cannot simply re-corrupt it.

I recall a twitchtv talk with Jeff and Ree shortly before release (now long removed, and a real shame too as during that livestream talk they compared Glint to Kuunavang despite it being well known then that Glint was a dragon champion), where they intentionally left it open for what the fate of Glint’s children/eggs were, and whether or not Kralkatorrik took control of them, while simultaneously mentioning that Glint remained fully free of Kralkatorrik. If the Pale Tree was freed from Mordremoth by the same or similar methods as Glint was from Kralkatorrik, then the Pale Tree would thus be immune to re-corruption. In turn, so would her direct magic – just as Glint’s Lair remained untouched despite the fact that the battle with Kralkatorrik happened in the skies above it, and he breathed his corruptive breath over the land several times over.

Caladbolg was used to cleanse Orr, not Trahearne, so it would stand to reason that Orr has become like Glint’s Lair. And just as Glint’s Lair remains untouched by Kralkatorrik… so would Orr from Mordremoth by extension.

That said

As to Zhaitan’s body, instutionalized, you’re correct about dragon corpses retaining the magic they consumed. This was brought up during Bazaar of the Four Winds in S1 during the short story Trek of the Zephyrites (parts of which can be found scattered in Dry Top), which described them recovering Glint’s body, and doing so for the very reasons you mentioned about Zhaitan’s body – they feared that Glint’s body, retaining its magic, could be used for harmful reasons in the wrong hands.

Evidently, the magic of the Zephyrite crystals actually comes from Glint’s corpse, though the crystals we see aren’t directly from her body but grown separate.

As for the magic in Zhaitan’s corpse – some speculate this is where Tequatl’s power boost came from.

You buy it, you own it. No time limit once you buy it.

The only time limit associated with Season 2 was the window for getting it for free – which was two weeks after each release for that particular release.

It wouldn’t matter if you buy it now or when you hit level 80 – or even when you finish the personal story after you hit level 80 if you intend to do the story in full chronological order.

In your shoes, I would wait for when it’s next on sale or I completed the personal story, since there’d be no rush.

Not sure how it’s convenient at all, tbh.

It’s not like we destroyed the Grove just to relocate the sylvari city into the Heart of Maguuma.

Yeah, there’s quite a few guesses as to the lore of each legendary. But in the end they’re just that – guesses.

We see the greatswords used by the High Wizard of Orr. Frostfang looks like a clear icebrood weapon as you said, the shield has ties to human history and Prophecies, even quoting Meerak the Shouter from Ascalon. The rifle and dagger both give off a charr-industrial feel to me. Rodgort, as said shares names with several fire magic skills in GW1, but by appearance and materials appears linked to the Flame Legion. Quip, incidentally, was used by Scarlet during Clockwork Chaos (specifically Scarlet’s Playhouse) – location and design places it as more likely tied to humans and their over-the-top-constant-celebration (aka that constant carnival) – same likely goes for The Minstrel. The spear is very obviously tied to the risen in the same manner as Frostfang to icebrood, and Kudzu seems tied to the sylvari (the female figure looks a lot like the Avatar of the Tree, IMO). Then finally the trident is obviously tied to the krait.

The speargun, staff, mace (sans name), shortbow, sword, hammer, and scepter are all mysteries completely, to me. Mace name, the Moot, is clearly tied to the norn but beyond that there’s nothing to link the two – so far.

If by “hid the thing” you refer to when Dougal and Killeen hid and re-hid the Golem’s Eye, that was on the inside of the catacombs. They were still inside the catacombs and were looking outwards, towards where the plaza would be, where the walls were lined with skulls (fake, I believe, but not sure off of memory).

It would make sense for the outside of the catacombs to “look normal” to me – wouldn’t want everyday passer-byes being freaked out by the pillars of skulls, now would we? It’s not like we’re in the Bone Palace or anything.

Vayne.8563:

Druids are tied to Guild Wars lore. It’s fine.

Diovid.9506:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Druid
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Druid_%28group%29

This.

Out of all the elite specializations, Druid and Scrapper names are actually tied to pre-existing lore (though Scrapper’s lore is GW2-originating while Druid’s lore is GW1-originating).

Chronomancer kind-of has an origin in lore, but it’s scrapped lore for the scrapped Utopia GW1 campaign.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skull_Plaza

There’s a giant double door towards the center of the city at the above Skull Plaza. That’s Skull Gate.

Yes, it looks like any other giant double-door. No skulls or the like on it. Likely called such less for design and more for what’s on the other side of it.

That bit about the six gods comes from Thrulnn the Lost in Hoelbrak, which is wrong on more than one occasion. Take what he says with a grain of salt.

That’s not entirely true, vanderwolf. While Eir does claim this in Season 2, both GW1 and Edge of Destiny shows her talking verbally. She is capable of telepathy, and this is how she learned the common tongue, but she definitely doesn’t solely speak via telepathy.

A minor lore discrepancy. Probably done so as to push forth the fact that she has telepathy (something, imo, that was unneeded).

@Randulf: That was Angel McCoy, not Bobby Stein.

When your human character increases in level, they will gain access to a range of special racial skills granted to them by the Six Gods, such as summoning fearsome Hounds of Balthazar or beseeching the healing goddess Dwayna to restore your health.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/races/human/

Take it as you will.

The entire Destiny’s Edge portion was a “this will happen if you don’t do the dungeon story modes”.

During development, one of the things ArenaNet said would be possible to do but never managed to implement for xyz reason – like having a ferocity personality resulting in NPCs cowering before you and allowing you to punch them – was changing the result of the final battle against Zhaitan in regards to who in DE shows up dependent upon which dungeon modes you do.

E.g., if you did none, no one from DE would show up, while if you did them all, all of DE would show up. It’d also be possible to have Logan not show up, or Eir not show up – or only them show up.

The Light in the Darkness was showing that “no one shows up” future – Logan and Rytlock still hate each other, Eir still blames herself and Zojja blames Eir still, and Caithe returns to Faolain and joins the Nightmare because her friends won’t fight the dragons (note: during this time, it was told that the Nightmare Court also fight the dragons but ‘in their own methods’).

Also during this time we were told that the order who choose would affect the strategy for how we fight the ED (Whispers focusing on putting them back to sleep believing them immortal, for example), we were told that we’d see Zhaitan’s corpse in Arah explorable, and that the story for Sorrow’s Embrace was that Logan was leading a Seraph expedition to free the dredge being enslaved with their moletariate being in cahoots with corrupt ministers.

Obviously, a lot has changed. But some elements of their “original intent” remained, just like how we still have dialogue options with personality icons, but no more do we have the militant, etc. options available to our viewing pleasure.

CureForLiving.5360:

Down with Ministry, down with Jennah! Kryta should be for the people by the people!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-b-zLawqa4vE/TaSWSQwHitI/AAAAAAAAAL4/2BLtZiA6kitten/s1600/SpreadAnarchy.jpg

They are not “removing” so much as “cycling”.

The news post explicitly stated that the items being removed now will return next summer, and that for the “winter” half of the year (Autumn + Winter) we will have a different set.

This different set no doubt includes those that were removed at the beginning of this year, such as Primeval, Krytan, and Profane armor sets.

The “immortal” Mordrem Lurcher was still around too, don’t forget.

Though to be honest, that cinematic has bugged me from the beginning. Not so much the Caithe taking the egg part, but the fact that the dialogue and animation do not line up.

To me, it feels like originally they were going to have that cinematic at the beginning of the boss fight, but for some reason moved it later and which made it not line up properly.

Old but relevant

Thanks for others writing this down

Can you tell us a little more about the nobility in Kryta? How important it is? For example, does something like Knighthood exist in Kryta?

Angel McCoy: I think the nobility is extremely important for Kryta. They’re basically the rulers; the king or queen, depending on who happens to be in charge at the moment, is the decision-making head of the entire nation.

Scott McGough: And then there’s the larger, deliberative body – at least in modern times – the Ministry, and that’s comprised almost entirely of nobles; lords and ladies, people who have rank and station within the Krytan society. They are also the decision makers. They’re not as powerful individually as the king or queen is, but they have a huge hand in shaping how Kryta operates, how Kryta goes forward and how Kryta interacts with other nations and its own people. So yes, the nobility has always been very important to Kryta. In past times the king or queen was the governmental, military and almost spiritual leader of the nation. Now that burden is shared more between Queen Jennah and the Ministry, but they are nobles and the nobles are still the first line of defense I should say when something arises, when a decision needs to be made.

So you need to be of nobility if you want to enter into the Ministry? Do you have to be born noble or is it possible to get ennobled in modern Kryta? Does Queen Jennah rise someone to Knighthood?

Scott McGough: Yes. And people can be ennobled, that’s a thing. Certainly the Queen can raise a common citizen up to the rank of nobility, give that citizen a title as a reward for their good service to the country or for something else. You can be made a noble, you can be ennobled but for the most part the older and richer families are the ones that are most established and the ones that are most plugged in to the channels of power.

There are different ranks of nobility, is it of any importance whether you are of high nobility or low nobility with which ranks you have in the Ministry? Does that play any role or is it dependent on your own abilities?

Angel McCoy: There’s undoubtedly some ranking in the Ministry, as well as in the nobility. The whole structure is set up as a kind of power hierarchy, however we haven’t delineated exactly what those ranks are. For the nobility we tend to follow a typical feudal model and knights, for the record, are pretty much our Seraph. The Seraph are the knights of Kryta. You don’t have to be noble to be a Seraph. You can be a commoner you can even be someone from the streets.

Scott McGough: The Seraph is much more of a police force/military organisation, where you advance based on your merit and how you perform. Logan attained his rank of Captain through his performance as a soldier. Logan is Captain of the Seraph, and if he became a lord he would be eligible for the Ministry. Speaking of ranks and titles, we saw in the personal story step the trial of Minister Julius Zamon we saw there are barons, there are lords and ladies. I think that the different titles in modern Tyria are kind of a carry-over from the old days, when there was more of a feudal system and a Baron was more in control of a larger share of land and then reported up to the King who was above him, or the Queen. Where as a Lord is simply someone who has the property their family owns, and the assets their family owns. Back in older times, perhaps King Thorn’s day, a baron would actually collect taxes on a larger plot of land in an entire region as opposed to a single acreage. So the different ranks these days aren’t as important, practically speaking, but then again that’s more of a carry-over from the previous eras when if you were a baron you were more important than a simple lord because you did more for the kingdom and for the monarch.

Angel McCoy: It’s kind of hard to be a land owner these days in Kryta, because of centaurs and everybody is so collected in Divinity’s Reach now where it’s safe. So the land owning element of that has sort of gone away but the ranking is still there.

What we’ve seen from the Ministry, looking at Minister Caudecus, is that there is corruption within the Ministry as well. Does this corruption spread very high within the ranks of the Ministers?

Angel McCoy: At this point, we’re not sure – or, well, we’re sure but you’re not sure – how high that corruption actually spreads and it’s something we’re going to explore later. Chances are that corruption spreads quite high because the Ministry is a fairly tight organisation, although it is political so there’s a lot of backstabbing and backroom deals. A lot of just one hand not talking to the other hand.

Scott McGough: There’s also a lot of ambition. A man like Caudecus thinks he should be making the decisions for Kryta. He doesn’t like the decisions Queen Jennah is making, in and of themselves and because he Caudecus is not the one making them. There’s a lot of noble ambition within the Ministry as these are the people who think they should be running the country so that often leads to them taking shortcuts, making side deals and backroom discussions like Angel said. They will do what is best for Kryta, but they will also do what is necessary to put them in that position to make the decision for Kryta as they genuinely believe they are the only ones capable of doing it.

So it’s very important for the king or queen to have people they can trust in order to defend their own power?

Scott McGough: Absolutely. That’s why you see the Queen so taken with Logan, as he is one hundred percent loyal, and that’s why you see the Queen relying so heavily on Countess Anise and the Shining Blade whom she knows she can trust without reservation. The Seraph under Logan and the Shining Blade under Anise are two of Queen Jennah’s most powerful allies and she knows to cultivate them and make sure that those relationships remain strong.

Kryta is a country with a lot of immigrants who came to Kryta from Ascalon or Cantha, from almost everywhere. How respected are nobles who migrated from these cultures? Do they have the same status as Krytan nobility?

Angel McCoy: Those people would be treated with respect but they wouldn’t really be part of the Krytan nobility. They would be there as diplomats, as emissaries or some sort of noble visitor. Even as they become residents, they may still be considered very respected and treated with a certain noble element of welcome-..

Scott McGough: Yeah, it’s kind of a parallel structure. If a baron came over from Elona – and i’m not sure Elona has barons – that person would be afforded every courtesy that a noble of Kryta would be afforded. They wouldn’t necessarily be allowed to make any decisions. As we saw in the personal story we have Minister Wi, who is of Canthan descent. He holds the position of Minister which I would say is analogous to ancient Rome, after it conquered a country and after that country had paid its taxes and behaved for a certain amount of time, the rulers of that country would be admitted into the Roman Senate so we had Roman senators who were German, who were British, who were African. Once you’ve proved you’re part of a functioning Krytan government these nobles would be allowed to participate in that government. It’s a case by case basis and it’s not an automatic thing. There’s the noblesse oblige where the nobles of one country extend that courtesy to nobles of another country. We’re all in the same brotherhood/sisterhood of nobles so we have to look after each other. We protect our power by protecting each other. So a noble from another country would be welcome in Kryta and would be treated with great respect as a dignitary in Kryta, but they would have to be a functioning part of Kryta before they were actually made a noble of Kryta or a Minister.

Though it should be mentioned they made an error in the interview, in that you do not have to be a noble to be minister (per in-game NPC, and Angel McCoy has stated that when interview and in-game dialogue counter each other, go with in-game).

My theory is that Gleam is the mysterious voice that we heard when the Master of Peace was given the egg.

Ogden mentions a group of individuals interested in the Commander’s actions, stating such when asked why he knows the vision the Pale Tree gave the commander: “There are those who have taken interest. I had some warning that you might be calling. Your challenges do not go unnoticed.”

I’ve been suspecting that this group of individuals pertain of a small group that have a different level of interest in facing the Elder Dragons than the Orders and other groups. A group that knows more than everyone else – and for one reason or another doesn’t share this information until relevant.

My suspicions is that this group consists of the following:

• Master of Peace
• Ogden Stonehealer
• Pale Tree
• E
• Gleam
• Livia
• Owner of the Mysterious Voice (if not Gleam – or E)

Sans Gleam (if not the Mysterious Voice), each of these individuals have played slight of hands in a political sense to push people to face the Elder Dragons

• Livia pushed for an alliance between Kryta and Lion’s Arch
• The Pale Tree pushed the PC and Trahearne into forming the Pact
• The Master of Peace had led the Zephyrites in protecting Glint’s final egg
• E pushed the PC and biconics into facing Scarlet/Mordremoth (directly and indirectly)
• Ogden directs the Priory against the Elder Dragons
• The Mysterious Voice giving the MoP Glint’s final egg for protection

Wouldn’t even surprise me if Anet decides to bring in the Herald from the dungeon letters into this group – perhaps even being the same individual as E.

But as for Gleam’s current location? Hard to say. I don’t think he met Rytlock, nor do I think he’s dead as Eir implies though. And as for Glint’s other children – they could be alive too. All we know is that the egg currently in Caithe’s hands is the last unhatched egg. That doesn’t mean the others haven’t hatched though – nor does it mean they did.

Wuselknusel.4082:

For me, the Dream is part of the hive mind Mordremoth uses to control and communicate with his minions, the Pale Tree, due to its premature growing and Vantari’s Tablet, was able to encapsulate a part of this hive mind to protect the Sylvari who are connected to the Dream.

The Dream acts as the sylvari’s protection, however.

It also forsees the future and is a physical place to enter.

It’s also outright stated to not be a hive mind by sylvari (Ghosts of Ascalon, page 21).

Galen Grey.4709:

I cant be 100% sure but that may not be 100% the case.
You did point out in other replies living characters that got corrupted like Necromancer Risa and Corporal Kellach. -sniprest-

There’s more than just Kellach and Rissa. You also have some hearts in Sparkfly and Bloodtide – such as the aforementioned Help Ayomichi slow the spread of Risen corruption. In most cases, meaning via the hearts, Zhaitan’s corruption on the living takes the shape of disease that slowly kills them. Which is the same as the amulets that Rissa had used.

Galen Grey.4709:

Doesnt this suggest that dragon corruption works differently between different dragons though? That they all have their own uniqueish approach to minion creation?

It suggests that they can corrupt the same things, and aside from element their corruption takes the same ultimate form, but how they go about corrupting differs slightly.

Galen Grey.4709:

I meant to check this but completely forget, I seem to recall that somewhere, perhaps in the books there is a scene describing Karkatorrik flight when he created the brand (could also have been a flashback, some part of the personal story… just cant recall) Warbands got corrupted but they didnt all get corrupted and charr fought fallen warband members as they were trying to figure out what happened. That suggested (unless for some weird reason I imagined it) that corruption can be fought of somehow.

You likely speak of Almorra’s backstory. But according to interviews, she was just outside the path of corruption – just on the edge of what would become the Dragonbrand, while her warband was inside (though this doesn’t fit up with her retelling in GoA).

All those within the Dragonbrand as Kralkatorrik flew past were corrupted.

Galen Grey.4709:

I think you may taking things a bit too extreme. Why would Jormag having a rule that he only turns willing converts? it makes sense if its a chosen approach but there is no reason to stick to it. At the end of the day what jormag wants is an army to do its bidding. He may feel willing soldiers make better soldiers and it makes sense to focus on that but why refuse extra power, based on principle? that doesnt seem to fit really.

Why does Zhaitan focus on corrupting corpses?

Why does Primordus focus on corrupting rock?

There’s a very clear case of personal preference in the subjects that the dragons corrupt. He clearly doesn’t care about his army. Not only does he not refuse forced converts, but he doesn’t care that Sons of Svanir hunt down icebrood – and they do, as indicated in the dialogue at The Barrowstead as well as the lore for why we see no female norn icebrood (sons of svanir kill them). To use Jeff Grubb’s explanation, Jormag just goes “oh look, the black ants are killing the red ants, who cares.”

Galen Grey.4709:

Okey I am a bit at aloss here now can you explain more? you mean why they’re not trying to spread the corruption like other corrupted minions do? that may be because up until this point (pact attack and downfall) they were focusing on defense. I mean Modremoth activated them (for lack of a better word) to repel the pact assault. and besides once we’re all death Modremoth can like clone us I guess. If thats what you mean.

1. Why don’t sylvari eat magic.
2. Why don’t sylvari have a hive mind.
3. Why don’t sylvari come from unaltered materials.
4. Why aren’t sylvari mostly mindless.

etc. etc. etc.

The only similarity they’ve shown with mordrem is ’they’re made of plants and look like another race (humans)’.

Galen Grey.4709:

We dont know that such a change happens immideately following corruption. If it takes time or if not all those corrupted are changed into Mordrem Guard than the reaction is understandable.

Supposedly Heart of Thorns takes place approximately 24 hours after the Pact Fleet crashes.

That means that the sylvari who turned became the physically identifiable Mordrem Guard within a day.

In Edge of Destiny, when a group that went out to fight the Dragonspawn returned two weeks later and they were only coated in ice.

1 day

2 weeks

Which is faster?

Galen Grey.4709:

Jormag as far as I know cant corrupt remotely though like Modremoth seems to be able to. That makes a huge difference. Add to that dont forget its quite possible the pact didnt come on its own to the conclusion slyvari belong to modremoth but that rather some slyvari stated it. Also there is the little problem that slyvari are plants and modremoth is also a plant like dragon… If norn were ice elementals would it be a stretch for charr / humans to conclude norn were created by Jormag?

Dragonspawn had quite a reach with his powers, I’d imagine Jormag has a wider one.

And you just stated my point – Mordremoth’s a plant-corrupting dragon. So why come to the conclusion “sylvari are dragon minions” and not “sylvari are corruptible by Mordremoth”.

Galen Grey.4709:

If dragons need life every 10k to consume they may very well have designed sterile minions to give life the chance it would need to recover.

So why is Mordremoth different?

That’s the crux of my point. Mordremoth is different. Vastly different than all other dragons.

Why?

To me, the answer is “cuz rule of cool” and that’s just sad.

Technically Calcifire, charr were not in Ascalon first, but seconds. :P

They took it from the grawl and, as it’s implied, dwarves less than a lifespan before humans took it from charr.

Yes, that’s right. The first Khan-Ur saw the conquest of Ascalon… and his death saw the conquest of Ascalon.

They are re-used assets, but Jeff Grubb did mention them specifically in an interview, which is where the wiki quote the OP mentioned comes from.

For me it’s the opposite. It makes no sense how a dragon minion could reproduce, asexually, yet create sterile creatures.

Why are Blighting Trees capable of being minion factories via more ‘natural’ (albeit twisted) methods, when no other dragon minion – mordrem or otherwise – is?

Thermaltron.6829:

So… could the human gods (and predecessors) have their gained their power from dragons and or the Elder Dragons? Maybe when the ED sleep, they can draw upon their power for their own use, but when the ED are awake, they need to hide away lest they be caught ‘dipping a hand into the cookie jar’?

Before GW2’s release, we were told that the facets represent power which the Six Gods harvested.

In Arah seer path, we learn that the gods harvested Zhaitan’s magic – without knowing – to strengthen the bloodstone.

To your actual question, the answer would be no because at least three but implied all six (of the time) had their godly powers before arriving on Tyria. Grenth is explicitly stated to be the first Tyrian-born god; Dwayna, Balthazar, and Melandru are all explicitly stated to have arrived from another world and performing godly feats right off the bat.

The Six Gods are not hiding from the dragons. They left the world over a thousand years before the dragons began waking, and even today their power is still felt in the world (that’s the actual lore explanation for human racial skills – them answering prayers; which yes, is odd given that everything else says the gods are silent – up until the Cathedral of Silence story mission).

Besides, the gods have divine power, and as we see in Season 2, divine power is used to counter the mordrem (if not other dragon minions).

EdwinLi.1284:

From the Lore, the Human Gods are beings from the Mist but people only see them as Gods due to them uplifting Humans in the world and their incredible powers.

You forgot about the excessive divine magic stored within their bodies that allow them to perform world altering feats without breaking a sweat, but when killed can destroy the world of Tyria from the center of the Realm of Torment; or the fact that no mortal being can look upon a god for an extended time without going blind (see: Malchor).

And the gods didn’t so much uplift humans as transport them – and the Forgotten – to the world from another planet.