Guild Wars 2

Stooperdale.3560:

(Why a Seraph Captain on the front line of a war zone thinks it is more dangerous than fighting Mordrem is anyone’s guess).

“The predictable, straightforward danger of the Blight is much more preferable than the streets of Antiva.” – Master Ignacio (paraphrasing from memory)

Had to look up what you mean, turns out to be a human-only dialogue (“Kasmeer is dear to me.” – I feel like this episode was stuffed of the writer’s own opinions presented as the PCs’).

Logan’s just saying that Anise acts only on her plans and motives, that she doesn’t do anything without a reason. And since he doesn’t know that reason, Kasmeer may or may not be in trouble.

That seems unlikely – if not impossible – to me.

It is Caithe herself that advocates there is no return from the Nightmare. If she thought there was a return, then she’d be putting Faolain through said return. It’s her loss and continuous reminder that Faolain cannot be saved to keep herself from falling into Nightmare to join Faolain that causes Caithe to continuously advocate that there is no return from Nightmare.

Yup, always been there.

It’s less that “the gods were mistaken” and more that “the humans were mistaken about what the gods knew/didn’t know”.

According to what we have, the Six Gods didn’t know Zhaitan was beneath Arah – they were drawn to The Artesian Waters’ magic, and unknowingly pulled from Zhaitan when they strengthened the bloodstone. In this case, it isn’t a case of making a mistake in what they know, but simply not knowing.

Also, the problem with the wars after Abaddon’s gift of magic wasn’t due to gifting humans magic, but:

“Abaddon, god of water and secrets, gave the stone away to some races. This caused wars, because people fought over it. King Doric begged that it be taken back so the battles for power would end.”

(“the stone” being the Bloodstone)

Abaddon basically took the Bloodstone (or broken shards, possibly), and gave them to many races – not just humans (which befits all known lore, I don’t know why people think they gifted magic to only humans) – which caused wars of greed, desiring to obtain the Bloodstone.

We don’t know what exactly Abaddon’s intention with his war-insighting gift of magic was. Maybe he was intending to insight wars, in which case… the gods were not mistaken, but the other five were, by all appearances, not knowing the case. Though maybe some did (like Balthazar) and intended the races to wipe themselves out, leaving humanity to rule the world. Or maybe it was a test to see how races would handle such greedy scenarios – and the races failed, though unlike the other five gods, Abaddon didn’t think that they should remove the scenario (yet).

Lot of possibilities, and none really point to “the gods were mistaken.”

eekzie.5640:

Or maybe I’m just still too annoyed that we let Caithe take the egg when it was so obvious… Kind of puts a dent in the ‘’your choices have effect in the world’’ when we can’t even choose not to bring her.

The funny thing was that when Season 2 was still in the works, Anet promised us that there would be more chances to alter the course of the storyline than in Season 1, which had one chance to alter the course of the storyline (Cutthroat Politics), and that it would be both obvious but more direct than simple voting.

We’ve yet to get that altered course.

Shiren.9532:

Why do the centaurs need a spoiler name? Why couldn’t it just be “centaur”? Scarlet makes sense because her identity was a mystery – the centaur’s identity isn’t. As far as I can tell, there isn’t much spoilery about centaurs in Dry Top that isn’t revealed simply by simply visually seeing they are centaurs. Even know the centaur’s have generic names – Maguuma Peacekeeper, Maguuma Scout.

The skritt mentions do bother me. They aren’t as consistent as the Mysterious Figure or Mysterious Stranger given that their name seems to change and they can become hostile. A hidden skritt village in Silverwastes isn’t much of a mystery – we already know there are a lot of skritt in Maguuma.

In the case of the centaurs, it was less of a “spoiler hider” and more of a “hint to future content” which seems to be the skritt’s case. That is: somethign that will come related to the race. Like the centaur village, which had quite some interesting lore to it (being tied to Ventari).

Anet’s not always subtle in their hints, but the whole Mysterious Figure/Stranger is just a common theme for things they aren’t ready to reveal – yet. For whatever reason.

Dondarrion.2748:

Kasmeer dubbing “him” Mister E might be another trick (not by her, but by the writers) to conceal E’s identity. Or are we sure it’s a male?

While Marjory makes it a point in the same sentence when pointing out “Mister E” is Kasmeer’s nickname for him that she and Kasmeer don’t know E’s true gender or even if it’s one person, in the short story we are given a description of a deep voice.

Dondarrion.2748:

Could it be Evennia – maybe far-fetched but seeing as we keep seeing White Mantle symbols crop up in connection with the bandits – although it’s becoming secondary to the dragon threat of Mordremoth – her disappearance in Old Ascalon treating with King Adelbern and never reappearing as part of GW:Beyond, maybe she’s included in the plans to feature in GW2?

Doubtful. Beyond was ended abruptly – they had at least two plots to go, one tied to Elona and one tied to Ascalon. The Ascalon one would likely relate to Evennia and Ebonhawke in some way. The release of GW2 and the (temporary but lengthy) decline of GW1 population resulted in the heads at Anet scrapping the no-profit-beyond-costume Beyond.

Dondarrion.2748:

Of course, she’d be special to live that long… but seeing as we’ve got similar rumours about Livia, why not Evennia too?

Evennia didn’t study the Scepter of Orr or powerful Orrian magic. That’s why not Evennia too. Prince Edair is a far more likely possibility.

For all we know, Adelbern ran her through and that’s why she disappeared (or it was the White Mantle that she was next to).

Zhaitan is “Death and Shadow” – if there’s any “darkness”, it’s Zhaitan via Shadows, if there’s any lies, it’s Zhaitan, who repeatedly lies via his risen.

Mordrem is Plant and Mind, not life which is far far more broad than “plant” or “mind”.

Everyone knows that Caithe and Faolain were lovers. It’s common enough knowledge – especially amongst sylvari. That’s far from a secret – if there’s any secret amongst it that Caithe tries to hide, it’s that she still has feelings for Faolain (she does deny such a lot – as well as feeling hurt by the loss – in the early PS).

Never said you called the Mordrem Punisher a champion (though it and the Lurcher likely are lesser champions), but was pointing out that Mordremoth having an intelligent minion doesn’t make Mordrem more intelligent than other dragon minions, or Mordy more intelligent than the other Elder Dragons, as intelligence amongst dragon minions vary between mindless and super tactical (with, usually, the more intelligent the minions is, the higher ranking it has).

ANet uses “Mysterious Figure/Stranger” all the time. Asura infinity ball storyline, the future version if the PC was a “Mysterious Stranger”. The ninjas of SAB world 2 were the same. Scarlet when first seen was a Mysterious Figure. A centaur guard was a Mysterious Figure.

The two things are just ’generic name for spoiler story NPC before their true identity is revealed."

“Mister E” is explained to be, lore-wise, Kasmeer’s made up joke on E. The likelihood of E being related to SAB ninjas, your future asuran self, or Scarlet Briar is less than none.

It’s not “Mysterious Skritt” but “Aggressive Skritt” when I saw it. There are several skritt throughout the Silverwastes that keep isolated from the Pact – you can find four of them circling a dead giant corpse, for instance (try to approach/attack and they all burrow).

No doubt the skritts are just a prelude to a skritt scratch (what they call their villages) becoming known in Silverwastes, just as the Mysterious Figure centaur in Dry Top was a prelude to the centaur village.

The Mysterious Stranger in the second E6 instance is a human, using a beggar model. More likely to be a bandit/White Mantle spy than Rytlock spying from the Mists.

The Mysterious Voice is most likely Gleam (or one of the other 19 eggs that hatched between GW1 and GW2).

Jaken.6801:

Angel McCoy.1832:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

If I had to guess, the tipping point for her would have been the Scarlet’s End instance, where she basically goes berserk and starts summoning illusions like crazy. More of a self-made psychological block than any external influence – she did seem unsure of herself prior to Scarlet’s End, and seeing what she did then likely made her realize “wow, I’m better than I thought! I should stop looking so down on myself”. Motivation and self-esteem tend to be heavy motivators on things that are based on willpower – like magic seems to be.

A very astute observation.

Sorry for answering so late. I did not catch that.

Even if she had the power all along, the story so far made it out as something special. Even with something like a Messmer Collective , we need a bit more exposition to her possible new abilities, as they do not seem that great, compared to other Mesmers we have seen (NCIS lie telling does not count).

So far she is only a talented Mesmer and up till now this mystery feels like a red hering.

The funny thing about Kasmeer is that – aside from all biconics being perma invulnerable throughout Season 2 (which makes all fights afk fests quite literally as they’ll keep fighting even if you’re defeated thus resulting in no reset unless you click return to checkpoint) – Kasmeer has lost all “superness” after Trouble at Fort Salma. Her “lie detection” in Party Politics was not only irrelevant for the most part, but poorly done (and never made out to be magical in-game still). And in E5, she gets wiped out the first chance she enters combat, and in E6 she has nothing special about her in the maze.

Jaken.6801:

Possible answers
- Mordremoth being intelligent
It seems the last Boss was a bit more intelligent then the other beastlike creatures, as it directed the fireflies with guestures and picked out targets.

All Mordrem Trolls can do this – though it’s bees, not fireflies. Furthermore, this is very much lower tactics than standard “lieutenants” (mid ranked minions as I call them – sentient minions that are less common than the mindless grunt, but only seem to control a small group of said grunts, or work alone, unlike champions who can command entire armies’ worth of minions) and champions.

Ogden said that, not Marjory. :P

And I think talking to Logan and Eir rather answers that in the first instance of Episode 6.

Though they stress – probably the writers wanting to prevent confusion – that the speaking via mind was something unique to Glint.

Though, interestingly, Edge of Destiny makes zero mention of Glint speaking into their mind, but with an actual voice. And GW1 has her mouth moving when she spoke. (And I really wouldn’t call the old crone voice she had in GW1 “the sound of crystalline wind chimes in harmonious tones”).

I found this update completely lacking. Both open world and story instance.

And the closing dialogue was just sad.

Rox: The Master of Peace is dead.
PC: Oh no. And Caithe is gone. So is the egg. And I promised…

Thank you Captain Rox Obvious. And “Oh no”? Really? I think they just topped “(gasp) No!” And recapped the unskippable cinematic which had Caithe shouting “no time to explain” a good 5-10 seconds before she even did anything in the cinematic. That… could have been plenty of time to explain…

The concept of sub-plots upon sub-plots is not the same concept as having mysteries for the sake of having mysteries, where you have questions left unanswered even after the answer loses relevance but more questions added.

Zaklex.6308:

The Inquest, in my opinion they have at least one redeeming quality, and that is they’re willing to explore, examine, experiment, what have you on theories, ideas, etc. that ‘normal’ Asura refuse to look into. The fact that they wouldn’t necessarily use what ever the outcome may be for good diffuses that a bit, but they’re still willing to step completely outside the box…and that’s at least one redeeming quality, in my eyes.

If you lookat the background lore for all groups, they have redeeming qualities. The Renegades and Separatists hate the opposing race to great extents. The centaurs have been beligered for nearly 1,000 yearsn ow without apro per homeland. The Inquest as you say are willing to cross moral boundaries others refuse for the sake of not forgetting knowledge like what happened when Primordus rose.

But then you are presented the in-game versions. And instead of wayward children rejecting other races’ philosophy, you get:

Tiachren: Let us celebrate our union with fire and blood. We’ll make the Pale Tree gorge herself upon the pain of these dreamers!

Instead of a stubborn people too full of hatred for an enemy race, you have:

Mad Bombardier: Have you forgotten what the charr did in the Searing? Let us remind you!

Zaklex.6308:

The Charr…are they not willing to share their mechanical know how with humans? Is that not redeeming?

I said enemy factions in GW2. For charr, that’d be Renegades and Flame Legion. While the bad guys are irredeemably evil, the good guys are unfaultering (except in stupidity) helpful.

Tyria is a world of black and white when you look at the game.

But it is a world of a hundred grays and no black or white when you look at the actual background lore.

Shiren.9532:

I’m not sure if this is a typo on your part and you pulled an “Ogden Stonehammer” but I think you have some of these incorrect.

I was going off of Angel and Bobby stating in the past that they’ve been around since Prophecies. Unless my memory falters.

Shiren.9532:

They aren’t the only writers though. I think on the Living Story specifically, John Ryan is a writer (hired in 2010) and I think Peter Fries might also be a writer for Living Story (an Environment Artist on Guild Wars Factions, Nightfall, Eye of the North and Guild Wars 2) but it’s unclear who does what.

I’m aware. I was talking about leads, however, not people in general.

The point remains, however, that the baton was passed with GW2’s release.

Shiren.9532:

Ree Soesbee and Jeff Grubb still work at ArenaNet afaik. I don’t think they stepped down, I think they are working an an unrevealed project (the expansion) and are busying world building content from scratch. Basically I think the Living Story isn’t the most senior project going on at ArenaNet.

I’ve heard that Jeff now works at NCsoft in general – being a writer of Firefall. Ree has been fully unheard of completely since Sea of Sorrows.

Shiren.9532:

Just a reminder guys (this is more for me than anyone else) the ArenaNet writers are people. Let’s try to keep that in mind when discussing their work, especially when we mention them specifically.

As a writer myself, I will say that those who cannot handle criticism are not really meant for publicizing their work.

But regardless I do keep such in mind and that is why I do not go about insulting the individuals or just spouting that the work sucks. I am pointing out, even though in general senses, what I find wrong about the work. I will not handhold the makers of poor work – no one will benefit of that – so if I find something with quality that is lacking, I will state such and why, just as I have.

Zaklex.6308:

Here’s where we don’t see eye to eye, and I’m going to compare this to a really good or excellent book series. I, personally, thoroughly enjoy reading book series(or any type of series for that matter) that keep adding questions as they go along, resolving some items along the way, but always expanding on those questions until the very bitter end, and then closing all the loopholes in the finally. And some of the things that have changed since GW1, can be explained by the little fact that ~250 years have passed, and on some issues people’s feelings will have changed..and others they never will.

Well you’d have to point me to a book series that does this so I could properly compare and contrast.

But in general, comparing the Living World to a book is rather silly, in my opinion. As is comparing it to a television series as ArenaNet loves to do. First, in regards to the TV series comparison – with exception for series that is effectively a media change for a book or comic series (e.g., The Walking Dead, True Blood, almost every anime out there), an TV series tend to have two plots per episode: an overarching season plot, and the individual episode plot that gets closed up in that episode. Usually, the former is hinted upon in every episode, sometimes not though; and the episode’s plot is always closed up in a single episode (sometimes, rarely, in two or three). The Living World does not follow this, taking months rather than a single 1 hour to close up that episodic plot. And unlike TV series, the Living World jumps around chaotically amongst various topics because the PC must be acknowledged in all the plots.

The way Anet’s envisioning their storytelling is better for a non-game media, where the audience doesn’t have to partake in every scene.

Secondly, comparing to a book, is similarly false. A book does usually close up all questions by the end – book series close them up by the end of the series. Only those which are irrelevant to the plot, or are relevant to keeping the door open for a follow-up (series) remain unanswered. Usually, however, you get answers presented – indirectly – every few chapters. Old questions answered, and some new questions presented.

The Living Story only presents new questions. In all of the two seasons, we’ve had two scenarios of questions answered: A Study in Scarlet and Hidden Arcana

And the thing is, Scarlet’s story is closed, so by a book’s standard, all the questions revolving her forces that should be answered, would have been. But we don’t have those answers – who leads the Molten Alliance? We don’t know. We only know that leaders exist. Who leads the Toxic Alliance? We don’t know. We only know that leaders exist. What are the statuses of the alliances? We don’t know. We only know that they still exist, and that they’re hated by their old communities. And all that little we know, we got from forum posts, not the game.

So, in all honesty, the Living World is NOT like a book. It is NOT like a TV show. It is not like anything else, because its attempts to emulate other things have failed. Miserably.

Is a human who seeks to eat every day not capable of manipulating an entire company to create a product of his choosing, firing and hiring individuals at his whim, and in the human’s life, produce offspring (or “kids” if you prefer)

Of course one can, if they’re a CEO.

So why then, must an Elder Dragon be incapable of performing base instinct such as consumption, but also have more sophisticated goals and actions like manipulating many individuals with promises of their desires?

Is it because they’re not human, that they cannot be just as smart as humans?

As a human eats food at a common three times a day, sleeps every night, and will often produce children in life, so too do Elder Dragons eat magic while awake, sleep for 10,000 years (or 3,000 depending on whether you accept the Priory’s claim that conflicts with the established age of dwarven and Forgotten civilization), and create dragon minions throughout their awakenings. But in both cases, there is more than the more primal instincts and needs of survival.

Stephen.6312:

The crew of the Essex saw sperm whales as the producers of a resource to be harvested, nothing more. To me, the lesser races of Tyria see the Elder Dragons in a similar light. The latter’s magic is a tool that the former claims it has the right to wield and for which it will kill. But could the behavior of the Elder Dragons really be based on xenophobia? I have to admit, it could be.

There is a MASSIVE flaw in your argument.

The races did not know that the Elder Dragons held or consumed magikittenil recently. 200 years of conflict existed before that knowledge came to be known in this cycle. It is unknown if such was known until Glint’s freedom in the last cycle.

Stephen.6312:

How do we know that other races survived the Elder Dragons’ last rise? Mythology. The ogres, tengu, krait, kodan, even the charr, all tell stories of previous cycles of the great serpents.

Krait and kodan don’t have such mythologies of the dragons. Only ogre, norn, and charr do. Tengu seem to have knowledge of the Elder Dragons, but nothing says it is old knowledge.

Stephen.6312:

I don’t believe that the giganticus lupicus were as primitive as “The Natural War” makes them out to be, however. The tome suggests that the giants fought mainly with their hands and feet. The giganticus lupicus of Arah EXP would probably beg to differ. He is a clear example of a magic-wielding giant. Granted, his magical abilities have been augmented by Zaithan, making it difficult to differentiate his pre-existing arcane affinity from that of the dragon’s empowerment, but the fact remains that he is a magician of sorts. I would like to suggest that he is not the exception to the rule, he is the norm. The giants that went extinct in the last rise of the Elder Dragons were as much magic users as any other race. Why is this so important, though? Well, it may be crucial to understanding the work of the Elder Dragons…

The G-Lupe in Arah actually hints to the race being the most technologically advanced of the previous age. That thing is a cyborg.

I suspect that at least some G-Lupe were, rather than primitive, peaceful yet powerful to the point where they didn’t need weapons of stone and wood (given their size, such would be a waste of resource). Their weapons were their claws and magic because they had technologically (or magitechnologically) augmented bodies. They were likely apex predators before the Elder Dragon rise, and thus being the top of the food chain didn’t have the same kind of society as other, weaker, races. Too many of such large beasts would no doubt quickly diminish the local food sources, so small societies had to exist simply for their survival – unless there were other equally huge beasts that they could farm that had diets that were easily regrown/repopulated – but such doesn’t seem to have existed.

Stephen.6312:

Why do you want to kill the Elder Dragons?

Because they are actively trying to control, consume, or destroy all civilization. If they did not seek such greedy goals, then perhaps co-existence would be possible.

Stephen.6312:

For Glint’s ability to perceive the thoughts of others may be prototypical of her race.

It is actually stated to be unique and why she allied against the Elder Dragons.

Stephen.6312:

Effectively, they take back the gift of magic by force.

But must they? They must balance it, but they could surely have a different means of balancing the magic in the world than going from one extreme (too much magic) to the other extreme (not enough magic). IF they learned to control themselves – or were replaced with beings that could control themselves – then they should be capable of leaving magic in a state that is neither too much or too little.

Stephen.6312:

I’m fairly certain that it was Glint who advised the elder races to create the bloodstone; she may also have helped them to understand the Elder Dragons’ perspective. The bloodstone embodied a new way of living with magic and dragons. In regards to magic, the races would live responsibly; in regards to dragons, they would live harmoniously.

I do not think so. Such a state would require the Elder Dragons from seeking to live harmoniously just as much as the races. But it is heavily established in Edge of Destiny that Kralkatorrik seeks to consume all things within itself, and destroy the rest; in Sea of Sorrows and the personal story, it is clear that Zhaitan was intent to rule.

The Elder Dragons proactively make the first assault on the races – Lion’s Arch merely set up a defense, and the risen struck time and time again until they bested those defenses. Kralkatorrik actively created the Dragonbrand as he went south to kill Glint. Jormag caused a four-year long blizzard before assaulting the norn. The Great Destroyer was Primordus’ herald not in waking the Elder Dragon sooner, but by making the way via exterminating life.

Harmony cannot exist if one side desires conflict. You cannot make peace with a tyrant who will assault you the next chance he gets.

Stephen.6312:

Although we can’t be sure whether the mursaat also received counsel from Glint, they did eventually seek to maintain a low magical profile, becoming the “Unseen Ones” and casting their powerful spells infrequently.

Their “low profile” was that of manipulators and tyrants from the shadow. Despite the old desire of players for mursaat to be the guys doing necessary evil to keep Abaddon locked away, it has long been proven that the mursaat are willing to sacrifice all others to save their own backsides.

Stephen.6312:

All dragons enjoy the ability to communicate with their minds to some extent, especially Mordremoth. […] I wouldn’t put the ability to learn languages beyond the reach of other Elder Dragons either, such as the late Zaithan, Kralkatorrik, or even Jormag, primarily because these three dragons use models of corruption that assimilate the citizens and cultures of civilizations. But if this is the case, why is Glint the only dragon to develop empathy for the lesser races?

It is not the understanding of language that bars the path of understanding, but the understanding of others.

The Elder Dragons show themselves to be without compassion – they cannot understand mortal races, not as a case of lack of communication, but lack of comprehension.

Stephen.6312:

He has imaginary friends that he claims have Tyria’s “best interests” at heart when they direct him to fight the Elder Dragons.

Who says they’re imaginary?

I suspect that amongst them are Livia and Gleam – two other figures from GW1 who live today in gw2 (supposedly for Gleam). Note: Gleam is Glint’s child, as revealed today.

Stephen.6312:

the last time I checked there weren’t that many “good” dragons left to replace the “evil” ones that we intend to kill.

1. Gleam
2. The Last Egg
3. Other, unknown, surviving children of Glint that have already hatched (someone should go count how many eggs are in that lair in GW1…)
4. Kuunavang
5. Shiney
6. Albax

This is presuming, of course, that Saltspray Dragons can consume magic too.

Stephen.6312:

Dragon is the cradle of civilisation. This is why the Elder Dragons seemingly emerged from the foundations of our world. They do not seek us out, we seek them out for their magic, using it to develop sophisticated societies. Dragon is the lease of life. Just look at the extended map of the world that was revealed to us in this latest update (Echoes of the Past). Few if any other regions of the planet we call Tyria enjoy the biodiversity of our continent.

An interesting, but false, concept.

Firstly, while the more magically attuned races, such as the asura and humans, flock to the Elder Dragons unknowingly, those that aren’t avoid them like supperstition (see the norn and Drakkar Lake). So civilizations do not depend upon the dragons, nor do they all seek them out.

Secondly, the continental Tyria (what’s explorable) has such biodiversity because of the Elder Dragons, true, but because they were displaced by the dragons.

Krait, quaggan, ogre, skritt, asura, norn, charr, karka, djinn, humans, tengu, kodan, largos and perhaps more are non-native to Tyria.

The ogres and the charr come from the east, invaders.

The humans come from another world, invaders.

The quaggan, krait, largos, and karka come from the seas, refugees.

The kodan and norn come from the north, refugees.

The asura and skritt come from the underground, refugees.

The djinn come from the southeast, refugee.

The tengu come from across the globe, refugees.

Only the centaur, grawl, dwarves, jotun, mursaat, and seers may be native to the place we explore in GW1 and GW2. And even that is not certain.

The part of Tyria that surrounds the Sea of Sorrows and Shiverpeak Mountains is to the races of the world as Divinity’s Reach is to humans. A refugee mixing pot.

It is not the existence of the Elder Dragons hibernating in Tyria that brought biodiversity. It was their awakening and attempt at extermination/corruption that created the biodiversity.

@Gulesave: An interesting concept, but I disagree. Both cases of godhood succession we see deal with the most major of aspects being passed down, though the interpretation on it changes. Dhuum and Grenth were Death – Abaddon and Kormir were Knowledge. So I don’t think that a successor of Grenth can become a god(dess) of silence and night – there’s just no relation to death in that.

@Drax: War is just as “narrow” as Illusions, in my opinion. While the ‘lesser attributed’ characteristics that are akin to war – combat, conflict, strife – are much more general. I don’t think the gods really need to be “general” in their aspects, though their aspects can be tied directly to general concepts.

This is why I don’t buy your argument – much repeated as of late. Not all of the gods have such wide-spanding aspects like Life, Nature, and Death. “Wisdom,” “Secrets,” and “Truth” are the public aspects, tied to Knowledge, but are very narrow; War is rather narrow, despite being the public aspect. I don’t think a wide and general aspect is needed.

Firstly, I have not read the full thread.

Secondly, it seems that new currencies are made in order to prevent people from just popping in, using saved up old currencies to buy the reward, and ignoring 95% of the new content.

To some degree, I honestly don’t mind this. But I also get why Anet would want the lock the Ambrite weapons behind new currency and the like.

This said, here’s my thoughts:

• It is NOT an issue to have the wallet expanded. The only annoyance there could ever be is looking through it to see how much of what you have. Scrolling is not an issue here and if that honestly does seem like an issue to Anet – which it isn’t – then they can easily shrink the size of the boxes and icons if needed.
• Consolidate past currencies! Each new update (or every few updates) seem to add a new currency. However, after that update, the currency becomes ‘old’ and effectively pointless. Group old currencies together into one type of currency. For example, when Season 2 is ended, turn Geode rewards into Bandit Crests (and whatever other non-super-specific currency is created for Season 2), including those in the inventory already, and make Bandit Crests a wallet item. This will increase the size of the wallet, but not nearly as much as it would with a direct tranversal.
• If the item is used as a currency and not for crafting/Mystic Forge – put it in the wallet; if it is used as a currency and for crafting/MF – put it in the bank.
• Don’t have currencies that trade into just another type of currency. E.g., Black Lion Ticket Scraps – the only use for them is to trade them for Black Lion Tickets; remove the scraps, turn them into tickets (and current tickets into 10 tickets for 1) and multiply weapon costs by ten. Then toss the tickets into the wallet – bam, two inventory spaces saved. Currencies that can be traded in for more than just another currency (e.g., Baubles) is not that big of a deal.
• If wallet size is a problem, and it should only be such for coding and not aesthetics, then remove things not needed for being in the wallet – e.g., transmutation charge number. Put that to always show in the Wardrobe tab, and remove it from the wardrobe.

Grenth’s father was a mortal.*

We never have been told who Grenth’s father was, just that he was a mortal sculptor. While Malchor is likeliest, Grenth’s father may not even be human. Simply not a god or demigod.

The gods very much can be humans, but they can also change their sizes and shapes (we see this of Lyssa, Dwayna, and Melandru), and nothing confirms they were humans.

And Kormir had more than “massive amount of power” to make her a god. It was divine power.

On Issue 1: Chances are, tomorrow and the next two releases will solve this problem. Remember when Dry Top first came out, and we only had the first three tiers to buy from? Not much option. Then the weapon recipes and then the Mawdrey crafting recipes came.

I would be surprised if Silverwastes doesn’t result similarly. So I save up most of my crests.

And take note: we already see new weapon skins in Silverwastes (hint: look at the allied NPCs). We also know of new armor set (Carapace), which is a non-glowy version of Luminscent. Both may end up being added to the vendors tomorrow.

On Issue 2: I don’t see this as an issue. It gives you a return of what you put in. Think of it like investments. It would only be an issue if it gave you more crests than the key costs. Which while I may be wrong, I don’t think occurs.

On Issue 3: The point of this is the collection achievement(s later on?). After that, the point ends, similar to “what’s the point of running dungeons after you unlock all the skins in the wardrobe?” – you did the point, so the point is completed and ended.

On Issue 4: Same as point 1. When Dry Top first came out, there were no fossilized insects. We may get an upgrade to the drops from chests in E6, E7, and/or E8.

On Issue 5: Again, I point to the first point. When Dry Top came out, there was no Monkey King Tonic/Mini. Patience, young padawan.

Though if you want a point: the knowledge that you just helped other players accomplish the achievement. Sometimes it feels good helping others. Unless you’re a heartless kitten, of course.

On Issue 6: I’m not seeing this as an issue.

Please point to me these “non elder dragons”.

Because all we see are mounds of ice, earth, crystal, lightning, fire, bone, and flesh melded into that dragon shape.

Canthan dragons don’t count, for they are different than the dragons we speak of – dragons of the European shape. And even then, only the Saltspray Dragons seem to be “real” dragons (turtle dragons are just drake-like turtles; dragonmoss is just drake-like plants, etc.).

The Six Gods do seem to be more than “humans infused with massive amounts of power” – the only source for otherwise in-game is the work of an asura who speaks of things he shouldn’t possibly know (Gadd speaks of dragons, yet died before they were known to mortal races, let alone the fact that they consume magic).

Shun.9475:

I think what makes Guild Wars 2 weaker than Guild Wars is that the world might too big with multiple stories to actually build everything forward, therefore the enjoyment of the plot is overall weak. In Guild Wars, the stories may have been linear, but they were explored fantastically.

Guild Wars 1 had a lot of stories that were left without conclusion. Though equally as many were told from “start” to finish via side-quests. Without quests in GW2, they must tell side stories either in the main plot… or in the open world. And if it’s in the open world… it cannot be concluded without removing it.

THAT is the issue GW2 has, when it comes to the side stories: they either cannot complete it (because open world), or they put it in the main plot (side-tracking main plots, “woo”).

Chrispy.5641:

(I will say the Bazaar of the Four winds update was terrible, and some of that writing had holes in it with some pretty arbitrary explanations) not all was terrible. Tower of Nightmares was S1, and it wasn’t too bad, and I think that was better than a lot of the quests in GW1 (especially every quest ever that was named after a pop culture reference. Those got old real fast)

Every update in Season 1 had its own issues.

Delivery and asthetically, Tower of Nightmares was on the top. However, lore continuity wise and in regards to proper storytelling, it was horrendous. Like much of Season 1, it left too many intentional unknowns with no proper clues to guess about it (“we want players to speculate!” as Anet puts it, paraphrased, results in them not giving us anything except unknowns), it created lore discontinuities by not establishing a clear reason in-game for why the xenophobic enslaving krait would ever trust or work with Scarlet and the Nightmare Court, let alone let them alter their bodies.

Anet’s lore is astounding if what they say to quell the forum outrages was there the whole time (it’s happened so many times I have become doubtful). But they intentionally leave so much unknown, without even hints to it. This is the biggest difference aside from the lack of side-quests from GW1.

And it changes EVERYTHING.

The quality of presented lore and writing in GW2 is vastly inferior to GW1; the aesthetics, music, and even voice acting in GW2 is vastly superior to GW1. The background lore is, questionably, the same quality – sans situations like Scarlet’s alliances.

And just to note: I recently replayed GW1, and found it far more enjoyable than GW2. Despite the fact I played through it countless times. And I’m usually a “I can only enjoy a linear plot once regardless of how good it is” person.

Back to original point…

As the OP says, there really is no connection to the enemies of GW2. They all feel so copy-pasta and flat that there’s so little desire to either want to work with them (like the White Mantle or Joko) or to hate them (like charr).

Separatists: “Mwuahaha! I will break into your houses at night and burn it all down!”
Renegades: “Growr! I will break into your fortresses at night and burn it all down!”
Sons of Svanir: “For Jormag! I will break into your homesteads at night, kill your women, and turn your men into icebrood!”
Flame Legion: “Praise the fire! I will break into your fortresses at night and burn it all down!”
Bandits: “Mwuahaha! I will break into your houses at night and sell you to centaurs!”

Minor differences, but the same feeling spreads across them all. They feel like the same pure black villains. Where are my shades of gray? WHERE IS THE REDEEMING VALUE? There is none.

I disagree with the OP about Nightfall and Eye of the North was “wrong” after Prophecies and Factions. It produced that shade of gray needed to truly love and hate villains. It showed that not all undead are mindless decaying machines of devastation ruled by a single man. It showed that the charr weren’t mindless animals that scavenged weapons to use, little better than grawl. It showed that not all centaurs are man-eating tribes, and that perhaps their hatred for humans is warrented.

It made you stop and think whether they’re all worth killing. In all honesty? When doing the Cathedral of Flame dungeon, and came up to all the charr gatekeepers, I kept thinking to myself “why do they always have to fight…” whenever my PC asked them to step aside for we shall deal with their ghost problem, but they say ‘only over my dead body’. I LIKED THIS.

But I never get such a situation over GW2 enemies. I slaughter centaur, krait, renegade, separatist, Flame Legion, Son of Svanir, Inquest, courtiers, etc. without mercy or care. Only race I’ve felt such thoughts as “why do they force me to kill them?” or the like have been the hostile groups of skritt.

Skritt in GW2 feel more compelling as a race than all villain factions in the entire game.

And that, my friends, is just sad.

One thing by the OP I don’t get, however, is this:

Morally gray scenarios positions are forced upon us, such as Ascalonian decedents are forced to become the enemy, Centaurs who largely want peace (but coerced by the Modniir Tribe) are forced to become the permanent enemy.

The Separatists are far from ‘morally gray’. Unless you count murderers and terrorists who kill their own family due to their hatred of the charr to be “morally gray”.

Except for the two NPCs that “didn’t realize how horrible they were” and thus left which exists for all player race enemy factions, incidentally the sole case of not pitch-blackness, there is no morally gray in any enemy faction. No grayness in the Inquest, Nightmare Court, Sons of Svanir, Flame Legion, Renegades, Bandits, or Separatists.

The centaur tribes would not be peaceful either; true, they’re being forced by the Modniir, but they hate humanity regardless. They would simply be more cultured – the subjugation by the Modniir has resulted in the Harathi and Tamini losing some of their religious side, like the Modniir themselves have a bit.

Shun.9475:

And already morally gray scenarios are left without progress, the centaurs are already a clear example, the inquest are still considered a vibrant part of asuran society given the atrocious and unforgivable acts commited for their twisted ideology, the nightmare court still remains at large but are left with no additional substantial developments, minister Caudecus is still left in complete haitus (even though he’s apparently one of the most powerful men in the world), and Ebonhawke is still the same.

These are also not morally gray scenarios. You are complaining about how the Living World focuses on only one plot at a time, despite being called a Living World. Things update at the need of the story, rather than at the progress of time. This is true for all things, regardless of their morality state.

But the inquest, nightmare court, Caudecus, etc. are not “morally gray” in the least. They are all clear villains, either the “I kick puppies and kittens for fun” or the “mustache-twirling” villains, but all clear villains with no redemptive quality to them.

-more in next post-

Fun fact:

Around the time of Guild Wars 2’s release, Bobby Stein became the new lead writer.

Around that time, Jeff and Ree began to become less prominent as we saw.

Around that time, Angel McCoy and Scott McGough (Mc Mc Mc Mc Mc; McMcky!) became the narrative continuity writers.

IMO, at GW2’s release, ArenaNet saw a passing of the baton from the “senior” to the “junior” (I refer to position status, not length in the company, as Stein and McCoy were there since Prophecies, iirc, while Ree and Jeff were only since Nightfall). This may attribute to the quality of the Season 1 story, on top of it being purely and 100% experimental and based on a design similar to the War in Kryta’s release (which was heavily praised – more out of the final return of content to GW1 than the quality of the content itself).

As to the stories not being as deep as GW1, that’s questionable. The issue, I think, is not the “depth” of the stories, or the “level of conflict and strife” so much as 1) quality of writing (there’s a LOT more continuity errors in the Living World than there ever was in GW1 or GW2’s initial release, though most is of the small time stuff), 2) the lack of side-stories (everything of relevance is shoved into the main plot, making it feel chaotic), 3) it really doesn’t account for the story of GW1 – it’s the same backplot, but a totally different story.

I am going to agree with Erukk that there’s quite the bit of nostalgia goggles blinding the view. But at the same time I’m going to agree that the various factions feel a bit flat and their presentation don’t really match their background lore. This goes double for the enemy factions, which feel like copy-paste of the same thing with different faces – like a roleplayer who plays the same archtypal personality regardless of race, gender, profession, and name of their character; or a nobleman who goes to many masked balls each with a new mask, but acts the same regardless.

In all truthfulness, Scarlet Briar was the most unique villain seen in GW2 thus far. But she wasn’t a good villain either. She was, quite literally, a one-note song. And half of her not being a good villain comes from that one-note she sang (“UNUSUAL” Alliances! – or as the lorebase puts it, lorebreaking alliances); and half was presentation and delivery – which CONTINUES to be an issue in the Living World.

Side-tracking a bit: one of the biggest issues I see with the Living World, aside from its back-and-forth into sideplot nature – is amptly defined in a comment in this article – “Stein and Waller said that speculation is precisely the reaction they’re looking for when creating living world content.” To put it simply, this is the wrong way to go about a story. You do not want to write a story to make people keep on guessing, you make a story where people want to see to the story’s conclusion. This will often inspire questioning, theorizing, and thus speculation, but the “keep them guessing” is not the goal, “keep them interested” is. And the Living World – especially Season 1 – was chocked full of what really felt like the writers making faces at us and going “na na nana na, we won’t tell you!” in a very annoying tone. That just makes me – and others, I’m sure – more annoyed than not. Episode 5 was a step in the right direction, giving more answers than producing questions, but it had its issues in other grounds (sideplot as mainplot!).

-more in next post-

ErickDntn.1847:

I don’t know if the answer will be a spoiler for you or not
Glint was brought to Tyria by the Gods to protect it. Not sure if she was already Kralkatorrik's champion or not, but she was freed by her servant, the Forgotten, long time ago. That's why she could betray Kralkatorik as her former master, because her mind was free.

Glint being brought to Tyria by the gods was a lie created by Glint to hide her true history. She was on Tyria before the Six Gods were on the world.

Her freedom from Kralkatorrik’s control is irrelevant to her pregnancy.

Silvercyclone.1462:

Now if Glint was pregnant before she was corrupted wouldn’t all her eggs have hatched by now? Also if there was a type of minion that could reproduce I’m sure in the 250 years since we first saw dragon minions we would have come across a few.

Firstly, do we know with absoluteness that the egg is an egg produced via reproduction? Or is it just a branded version of the destroyer eggs – artificially created to house a single minion during its creation?

This question is VERY important to answer, as it would give way to dragons being an actual race and not eldritch abominations created out of twisting other things into dragons.

If the answer is no, then the eggs are just a case of a dragon champion creating another dragon champion (like how Drakkar corrupted Svanir into a dragon champion); just slower than usual branded.

If the answer is yes, then the egg is a case of reproduction that got altered via Kralkatorrik’s corruption. And one must ask to answer your first question up there: just how long does a dragon egg incubate for?

lordkrall.7241:

“Dragon minions shouldn’t be able to reproduce”

Not isn’t.

Glint had children (or at least one child) in Guild Wars 1.

Glint also seems to be rather unique overall when it comes to Dragon Champions. It is of course also fully possible that she regained her ability to reproduce after she was freed from Kralkatorriks control, which would suggest that they CAN reproduce but aren’t ALLOWED to do it.

Dragon minions cannot reproduce because they don’t have the organs to allow reproduction. Flesh gets turned to ice, crystal, liquid flame, completely rotten, etc. Sometimes bone and/or skin remain, sometimes perhaps not. Glint is not unique in this.

lordkrall.7241:

There is no information at all about Glints origin as far as I know, and there is definitely not something about her being brought to Tyria by the Gods.

Glint being “brought” to Tyria is just a mis-statement by him; the original lore is that Glint was the “first creation” of the Six Gods on Tyria. But it was explained even before Edge of Destiny (as a lead into the novel’s reveal) that Glint’s history comes solely from her, and that she “had her reasons” for saying what she did.

lordkrall.7241:

Glint wasn’t really crystal though. Sure, she had some crystally parts, but most of her were flesh.

All we see is gray/blue skin with crystals jutting out of it. Branded keep their skin and bone, though the skin grays as it loses color and tears to show the crystal ‘muscle’ and ‘sinew’. While Edge of Destiny describes Glint as having sinew, it never describes it as flesh and (liquid) blood.

lordkrall.7241:

Unless every single egg she ever lay (or however she produced them) were laid at the exact same time, there is no reason to assume they would all hatch at the same time.

Depending on what conditions a magic-consuming race requires to hatch from eggs.

It may be that the eggs require plentiful magic, thus if laid at the end of a dragonrise cycle, they would remain in effective stasis for centuries due to lack of magic. And similarly, if one is exposed more magic than others, then it will hatch sooner, even if laid at the same time.

Ascalonians are probably almost as much of a majority as Krytans as I see it. It’s the Elonians and especially Canthan and Orrian (whom are nearly non-existent) that are in the minority.

Aside from drax’s mention of the Great Tsunami dealing a lot of damage to Krytans (not to mention the Krytan Civil War that effectively lasted 16 years from 1072 to 1088 AE – though the worst of it was in 1079 AE), there’s the fact that Ascalonians had the Ascalon Settlement to regrow in numbers since 1072 AE, whereas other refugee communities had nothing until Divinity’s Reach.

Given drax skips Orrians, I’d probably argue something closer a percentage of 45/35/10/5/5 (K/A/E/C/O)- while we only have one Orrian-descent person openly proclaiming such, it’s known that they keep their heritage on the downside, so they’re probably as common as the very rare Canthan family we see on occasion.

Them having a “goal” does not necessarily mean it is to be the same as “their purpose”. They merely have to be thinking, individual, free willed beings to desire something that is not what their biological makeup requires.

Like how humans seek out happiness, power, money, etc. Such is unrelated to the individual and species ingrained ‘instincts’ (if you will) of eating, sleeping, and reproducing.

@Ratphink: I think narwhalsbend is not complaining about the aridness (Dry Top was always arid) but the pure amount of sand.

@narwhalsbend and FlamingFoxx: It should be noted that the place dried out even more than GW1, without water, this would make even dirt to become very sandy. So I would argue that fierce winds eroding rock and lack of just about any moisture would indeed produce that much sand in 250 years. There was, apparently, some magical involvement with the drying of the underground magical water table (my bet lies on either bloodstone tampering by White Mantle, or Primordus).

What was known before Season 2:

• The bandits is a front for the White Mantle to sow discord amongst Kryta against the queen.
  • The White Mantle seem to only be in the leadership of the bandit front, with the grunts joining due to misbelieving, poverty, coming from street gangs, or in for the sport of it; the ‘better’ bandits dislike targetting people and thus are amongst those commonly seen in Brisban Wildlands.
  • The bandits seem disorganized and unrelated, but they hold shared emblems and alliances.
    • Said alliances are the Sinister Triad (alliance with Nightmare Court and Inquest – we haven’t seen the NC yet in Season 2, hinting at the possibility that they’re no longer part of the Triad; Pact individuals hint that the Sinister Triad is actually the name for the bandits, not the alliance) and the alliance with centaurs (seen in Kessex Hills and Harathi Hinterlands).
• Only the Shining Blade know about the White Mantle’s actions.
• It is heavily hinted, but not proven, that many ministers on Caudecus’ faction – including Caudecus himself – are either directly working with bandits, or are part of the White Mantle.

What’s learned in Season 2:

• The White Mantle established a “New Kryta” ‘kingdom’ in the Wastes. This includes Prosperity and the four forts seen in Silverwastes.
  • Prosperity was their copper influx. Interestingly, the existence of charr and asura (and I think norn?) hint at the White Mantle being multiracial now. Though mostly human – their apparent continued alliance with Inquest (both bandits and Inquest had territory in Dry Top already) furthers this.
  • Riot Alice is now in New Kryta (said she would return north in E1). Some of Prosperity’s people fled north when attacked by Mordrem, Riot Alice included.
• The forts are undoubtebly previously held White Mantle, as was Fort Vandal. Too many White Mantle badges and white robes and weapon descriptions matching the Oppressor’s weapons from GW1 to discredit this.
• The White Mantle/bandits went ‘underground’ when the Mordrem attacked. Unknown if this means literally underground, or metaphorically as in ‘go into hiding’.
• There are bandits seen doing excavations in the Silverwastes, as well as Forgotten markings and ruins, indicating that the White Mantle didn’t build all structures there.
• Fort Vandal held something of interest to the Mordrem and was taken away by the White Mantle. Fun fact: Fort Vandal is built over the Henge Gate of GW1, so may be related to what the Mordrem were after (could also be mursaat or bloodstone related).

Dry Top was “sandy-duned desert” because, lorewise, of continuous fierce winds. Such winds would erode stone down into sand, and blow the sand away. With Dry Top being full of canyons, however, as it was in GW1, that sand has little to go – which results in it just shifting around in Dry Top itself via the wind that becomes sandstorms.

It was more Crystal Desert-like than it really needed to be, but still works storywise. They could have easily gone without the sand and sandstorms though, obviously.

My thoughts too.

And I don’t think the egg is “more important” so much as it is “more important right now” – like how Mordremoth is the “most dangerous right now” (which they ‘fixed’ with Echoes of the Past in Trahearne’s dialogue, whereas all of E3 and 4 it was just ’he’s the most dangerous’).

Ogden confirms that it was an egg when you get back from the lair. That’s where the journal knowledge comes from.

Ogden seemed to know not only the Master of Peace personally, but possibly the mysterious voice too.

Stooperdale.3560:

It is interesting though that Tyria has covered over almost all evidence of the last dragon rising even though relics from the ancient civilizations remain. Whatever damage the dragons do to the land can be naturally recovered, it seems.

Maybe, maybe not.

“Balthazar came in fire and wrath, carrying the head of his father and leading his fierce hounds, Temar and Tegon. He swept Orr with a cleansing flame.”
“Next came the goddess of nature. Wise Melandru, oldest of them all, made of Orr a green and flowering expanse. She urged peace with the races already present on this world, but her advice was not heeded.”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_Scrolls#The_Six

Ogden Stonehealer: The last time the Elder Dragons awoke, they wiped out almost every intelligent race on the planet.
Ogden Stonehealer: It is from this low-magic environment that the gods built the world as they wanted it.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana#Dialogue

These are just two more obvious hints of the Six Gods terraforming the world. They could have removed the corrupted landscapes.

Squee.7829:

I know according to standard lore centered loosely around Abaddon and the Margonites, the Crystal Desert used to be a sea until Abaddon was cast into it, boiling away the sea to reveal the Crystal Desert and Desolation.

I don’t recall anything about “boiling away”.

The interpretation I had was that Abaddon’s impact at “The Mouth of Torment” shifted the landscape, forcing it upwards. The sulfur wastelands of the Desolation was created slowly over time – it is the Realm of Torment’s influence on the land of the living.

Squee.7829:

Or was it more like the legend that the Gods raised the land for something to live on? (Something non-human. Likely the Forgotten) The GW1 wiki says both at the same time, but I’m guessing the legend part is just another “Humans believe this, but don’t believe them as they’ve been wrong about just about everything so far” situation

This was not only a ‘humans believe this’ but also a ‘the tale that was used to cover up Abaddon’s existence.’ So this fault isn’t to humans, but to the Six Gods (then five) who removed all knowledge of Abaddon – they had to give some explanation to the Crystal Desert’s creation.

Squee.7829:

I know Kralkatorric likes to haunt the Crystal Desert, and that he tends to turn everything he flies over into Crystals. Is it possible that all of his currently infected areas MAY end up looking like the Crystal desert under the right conditions? And it being formerly underwater, how would that have affected things? Did he always like the desert/sea area? It may explain why Glint had her base there. Or why Kralk is staying there now, and not returning to his former resting spot up north. Or is it just a complete and total coincidence that the desert is made of crystals and Kralk never actually went to the desert until now, and mostly to kill Glint, who hid there?

Theoretically, it’s possible the Dragonbrand may become a desert in time.

Three things should be noted before continuing on:

• Some records, such as The Ecology of the Charr and Glint during Edge of Destiny, hints at there having been a desert even before Year 0. There was indeed a sea, but near the Crystal Sea (most likely on the northern end) lied the Crystal Desert.
• Glint was in the Crystal Desert to collect Kralkatorrik’s green crystalline blood.
• There do exists some large crystals in the desert – back in GW1’s time at least – which were blue, very much like Glint’s lair. One such rare occurrance.

Does Kralkatorrik like sea/desert areas? Unknowable. But given various information, it would seem that Kralkatorrik’s domain encompassed at least Orr, Ascalon, Blood Legion Homelands (current name; where he hibernated), and the Crystal Sea/Desert during the previous rise. Maybe he doesn’t feel the need to move north because he feels the entire thing is/will be his territory again. Maybe he remains in place because he was so close to death in 1320 AE, and he won’t dare make another move until he’s gathered a lot of magic. Maybe he’s remaining in the Crystal Desert due to all the magic that’s there.

Or maybe he did leave, and flew east or south.

Squee.7829:

On to more current matters, what is the extent of the dragon’s influence on the Crystal Desert? Most people say travel is mostly impossible to Elona due to Joko’s un-dead army and probably now, the dragons, but if that were the case, why exactly was Queen Jennah so worried about getting so flooded with refugees that she had to keep the gate at Ebonhawke closed? Impossible travel conditions aren’t exactly conducive to floods of vagrants.

Nothing says the gate is closed due to number of refugees – in fact, that seems very un-Jennah like. What’s said has been quoted, but it’s to keep people from going south, not from coming north.

Soure Doomsday is a necromancer. I’ve seen him using blood siphoning skills. Mesmers don’t blood siphon. He’s a Blood Magic user.

Personality and upbringing, most likely.

That’s what I’m seeing now too. If you replace “the world the gods came from was (a different) Tyria” with simply “the world the gods came from had Elder Dragon like beings” then it’s only a “and the gods could have been those Elder Dragon like beings” away from the same theory.

Being a dragon champion != being a dragon. It is dragons that consume magic, not necessarily champions.

And Drakkar certainly doesn’t look like any other dragon (especially Tyrian dragon) we’ve seen. he has no claws – just pincers – and no wings.

The thing looks more like a gargantuan Mandragor to be honest. Though less planty and more reptilian/amphibian.

perilisk.1874:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Zhaitan waking in a place of death was purely coincidental.

I completely agree, but the fact that he stayed there was probably due to the abundance of deathyness. Whatever Orr used to be, it was a land filled with inexplicably well-preserved corpses when Zhaitan awoke.

Well, sure, but if he woke up on top of a living kingdom, who’s to say he wouldn’t have stayed there still?

Orr was more than a place with an “abundance of deathyness” – it also housed Bloodstone shards and a large variety of other magical artifacts – both from the Six Gods’ collection days, and from the human kingdoms’ days – as well as the naturally very magical Artesian Waters.

Orr was – ‘deathyness’ or not – a buffet for an Elder Dragon. ANY Elder Dragon wouldn’t leave that spot unless forced to.

Not very compelling.

perilisk.1874:

That doesn’t prove anything, since as the Crystal Dragon’s champion, Glint would have probably felt the same affinity for the Crystal Desert as Kralkatorrik himself. At any rate, he could have easily returned to Ascalon if he was just there to deal with Glint.

It is explained in Edge of Destiny that she remained in the Crystal Desert to collect Kralkatorrik’s crystalline green blood over the centuries.

Doesn’t sound like something related to an affinity of sand and desert…

perilisk.1874:

I’m not seeing that, unless by “jungle” you mean “desert filled with Mordrem and giant vines which may be part of the body of Mordremoth himself”.

Go to the western edge of The Silverwastes; while most is vines, there’s a lot of vegetation in general there, overwhelmingly so. Or to paraphrase the Tactician in Camp Resolve (where Trahearne is in the story instance): Mordremoth makes jungles with his corruption. Part of the heavy vegetation can only be seen in the ending cinematic of Caithe’s Reconnaissance Squad – which shows a giant flower-like thing that is, apparently, a Mordrem production plant (heh).

draxynnic.3719:

Valid point. Of the three, I’d say that the Pale Tree is the least likely to be an ‘unreliable narrator’, though. Mind you, she’s been wrong before, and it’s a plot point that both were disconnected from the Dream – she may just be surmising like everyone else.

Eh…

The Pale Tree has become increasingly suspect as of late. Why not inform others that Mordremoth was awake? And she apparently had some insight on The All (her warnings to Ceara, being about “the forces that created us”, sounds like she means The All) yet seemingly knowing the importance of the dragons, seek their deaths…

I’m not trusting the Pale Tree any further than I can throw her.

Trahearne suspected that someone let the Mordrem in… I think she did – not as a minion of Mordremoth, but a risk to her self to make the others kill the dragons faster. Kind of a Xanatos Gambit if you will.

perilisk.1874:

The first element seems to essentially define the Dragon’s favored terrain: Depths of Tyria, Maguuma Jungle, Crystal Desert, Far Shiverpeaks, Orr, the depths of the ocean. It is more material in nature.

I don’t see a relation between Death and the kingdom of Orr, which was the most holy of cities; and he was there before the human kingdom for that matter. Zhaitan waking in a place of death was purely coincidental. And like Jormag and Mordremoth seem to be doing (perhaps the DSD too), he’s remained in place.

Also, while Kralkatorrik did not wake in the Crystal Desert but flew there – he did so to kill Glint. He made his “favored terrain” on the way: the Dragonbrand. During the previous dragonrise, it seems that his territory stretched from the Crystal Sea (which wasn’t very crystalline at all), Orr, Ascalon, and the Blood Legion Homelands. Very little was very crystalline until he rose again.

I really don’t see this connection, truth be told. Half of it feels coincidental on the dragons’ part, and the other half is more that the dragons made it their preferred territory – like how Mordremoth is making the Maguuma Wastes into ‘his jungle’.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Could the DSD’s another sphere be “secret” since we know little about it, even the records had lost its name?

I doubt it. Maybe “Knowledge”, but “Secrets” seems a bit too specific, and the reasoning is just silly. The amount of knowledge we have on an Elder Dragon shouldn’t be related to its spheres of influence – theoretically.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Grenth is also tied to Destruction. So is Balthazar.

I would argue such a lining to be coincidental like Zhaitan and Grenth both being tied to Shadow/Darkness and Death.

Menzies is closer to have the domain of “shadow” since many of his minions were shadow monsters.

That’d be like saying Balthazar had the domain ofs pirits, because his personal army, the Eternals, were ghosts.

The Shadow Army are things called “Nightmares” – which are, by all little lore we have on them, evil souls. I don’t think there’s a relation between Menzies and Shadow.

Grenth, however, is outright an explicitly called the god of darkness (alongside ice and death; the rest are just attributes to him: judgment, ethics, destruction, etc.)

perilisk.1874:

Both the Pale Tree/Sylvari and the Great Dwarf exhibit the sort of collective consciousness that Dragons and their minions do, so they seem like good candidates.

Collective consciousnesses (which is NOT what the sylvari/Pale Tree/Dream is) is irrelevant in this matter.

The role of the Elder Dragons is to balance magic. They do this by consuming and exuding. What’s needed is a being that can retain magic in its body – either permanently (like it seems it is for the Six Gods), or temporarily (in which case they need a means to add magic back into their body).

Theoretically, the role of the Elder Dragons can be spread amongst dozens or even hundreds of beings/objects. It is just a matter – so it seems – of keeping the magic from flooding the world. Though if you do such a thing, we may have a repeat of the mursaat – powerful beings that try to take over the world.

Slowpokeking.8720:

If Primordus=Fire+Destruction, could it be related with Balthazar(Fire) and Menzies(Destruction)?

Grenth is also tied to Destruction. So is Balthazar.

I would argue such a lining to be coincidental like Zhaitan and Grenth both being tied to Shadow/Darkness and Death.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Curious, since all other sources place their arrival in Tyria kitten years ago. Orr rose 100 years ago.

Like I suspected, looks like DSD rose before Jormag.

It’s always a possibility, but still not definite.

It’s equally possible that those quaggans who fled from Orr’s rise were inland quaggan that weren’t part of the Unending Ocean quaggans that were pushed out by the DSD/krait.

perilisk.1874:

There isn’t really a Light sphere in either the god or dragon category (as the presence of Darkness might suggest), and such a sphere could feasibly encompass both Truth and Crystal (in the sense that crystals often have interesting optical properties) as Aspects. While there is some overlap between Truth and Mind, truth is truth whether a mind perceives it or not.

An issue is that it isn’t “Truth” but “Knowledge”. ABaddon was Wisdom before his fall, which turned into Secrets; Kormir rose as the goddess of Truth, Knowledge, and Secrets.

Wisdom, Truth, Secrets – these are all just different aspects of “Knowledge”. Knowledge is to Air as Wisdom, Truth, and Secrets are to Wind, Sun, and Lightning. To make a comparison.

perilisk.1874:

Scarlet forged many alliances and learned many secrets, but when we actually faced her, her last major defenses were based in holomagic (ie, light).

Not entirely. Fun little noticed fact is that the Prime Hologram is powered by light energy; the Ultraviolet Hologram is powered by dark energy. Magic has thus far been classified in four ways in GW2: chaos energy, light energy, dark energy, and dragon energy. The hologram is unrelated, by all appearances, to the ED’s spheres of influence.

perilisk.1874:

Of course, there’s another angle there — crystal is also a major motif in Zephyrite magic. If Zephyrite magic is purely Air sphere, then that suggests Crystal is a subset thereof (and therefore, there is another sphere unaccounted for).

Crystals are a long-known means of storing magic. This was established back in GW1. The crystals the Zephyrites use is just a means of storing the Aspects’ magic.

Kralkatorrik’s sphere of crystal is tied more to what his corruption appears as; just as Zhaitan’s corruption appears as deathly things, and Mordremoth’s corruption appears as planty things.

I think you’re overall looking at the spheres wrong from all given indication. One sphere is how the corruption takes shape (Fire, Ice, Crystal, Death, Plant). The other is more questionable, but it seems that the second sphere is the magic that the Elder Dragons use – Kralkatorrik, for example, used storms, wind, and golden fiery breath (very akin to sunlight) to attack and corrupt, just like the aspects that use air; Jormag’s corruption of the Sons of Svanir have been called ‘losing their souls’ to him, and he establishes himself often as a spiritual figurehead, with a heavy focus on the Mists and souls (via Svanir, his consumption of Owl and attempt of Minotaur, his focus via Sons of Svanir on Havrouns).

You’re trying to relate both to their magic. But only one seems to be so.

And trying to relate Crystal to Knowledge is one huge of a stretch to try and make your theory work.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

On the quaggan being driven out – there’s conflicting sources on it. Bullablopp says that the quaggans (his village at least) fled the dragons and ran into the krait in shallower waters.

So I think that the main body of quaggan were forced out by krait, but there were some that were forced out by the DSD directly, later on.

A matter further complicated when you get yet other quaggans attributing the same sequence of events to the risen.

Curious, since all other sources place their arrival in Tyria kitten years ago. Orr rose 100 years ago.

If they only surfaced 50 years ago, but fled to Tyria’s sea depths prior (before Orr’s rise), then this gives credence to the DSD rising before Jormag.

draxynnic.3719:

The Pale Tree’s dialogue does suggest that Aerin and Scarlet were corrupted, though.

As well as Taimi and the three Masters during Reunion with the Pact.

Which the interview seems to not take account for.