Guild Wars 2

dsslive.8473:

Well did the person who held a knife to her throat tell her he was E?

Anyhow, ofc there are roadblocks, there are roadblocks with every theory out there ^^ so much mystery.

Anyhow, i know very well that of all possibilities this is the one thats most farfetched. But its also the most interesting :p

Yes, he did.

I stood slowly, and as I reached my full height, a body came up gently behind me. Arms wrapped so intimately around me that my fight or flight instincts never kicked in. Then, a knife appeared at my throat.

I froze. When you’ve been had, there’s not much you can do but listen.

A deep voice whispered next to my ear, “Calm.” I sensed no necromantic power radiating from my captor. This was someone different. “The man you’re chasing is Kraig the Bleak. Magic for hire. You’ll probably never see him again.”

I asked, “Who are you?”

“Listen closely,” the deep voice said. “There are forces at work in this city, in this world, that will take us all down if we let them. Together, you and I can make a difference.”

My body was relaxing, senses expanding, and I’d finally caught my breath. “And what a positive start to our relationship.” My sense of humor was even returning.

“One you won’t forget. I’ll be in touch. You can call me E.”

Before I knew it, I was released, throat intact. I spun around, but no one was there. My captor—E—had left me standing, alone, on a moonless night, at the edge of a cobblestone street that smelled of rotting vegetables and dog droppings, and all I could think was, I need a new job.

Looking at https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/

I would say no.

All things that re-occurred, sans Tequatl Rising and The Lost Shores, are now marked “Special Event” – even Bazaar of the Four Winds.

Dragon Bash is marked “Episode 7” (though in all honesty, I’d label it Episode 4, or 5 – all four Flame and Frost were rather 1 episode, and Secret of Southsun/Last Stand at Southsun were small enough to count as a single episode too, and The Lost Shores should be an episode, imo, too).

However, I do hope they bring it back. I can’t see it happening this year, so perhaps next.

Diovid.9506:

BobbyStein.2315:

Back on topic. It seems that people liked the lore books. How would you like to see them improve or evolve? Examples help.

Bring back the loading screens with lore tidbits and the in-game books, that both were present in beta. For reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4Wn4wAOZmQ

Seriously, why did that never make it into final game, either at release or sometime after that?

I had forgotten about that, but yes, bring those back.

They don’t need to be around for the story steps, but I would like one for the zones and open world instances, please.

Some of the more curious lore of GW1 came from town/outpost descriptions.

@saventis: we actually haven’t really seen any results of Zhaitan’s magic going into the world. The only real result we’ve seen is the risen getting more powerful – at least Tequatl has been acknowledged as becoming more powerful in story, though mechanically all Orrian risen have grown in size and become stronger in mechanics.

It’s likely that Zhaitan’s magic is being asborbed by his minions, at least in part, rather than fully going into the world.

Similarly, it means that the Elder Dragons can consume more before they run out of food.

Slowpokeking.8720:

The orbs showed the otherwise.

You speak as if absolutely certain.

Yet there is no concrete proof that your interpretation is correct.

Slowpokeking.8720:

It’s very different from alarm clock.

Wasn’t my analogy, but Jeff Grubb’s.

Slowpokeking.8720:

The Great Destroyer didn’t feed its master with magic like Drakkar or Scarlet did. It was simply trying to command the destroyers to occupy the underground. Actually, the central transfer chamber was keep using Primordus’ energy to power the gate(that could be a lot of energy running out). But the Great Destroyer didn’t destroy the chamber when the destroyer overrun the chamber, but was actually using the gate to attack the Norns.

Please point to me your proof that the Great Destroyer wasn’t giving Primordus magic. I know I haven’t linked the interview, but I’m not pulling it out of my kitten , regardless of what you may or may not think.

This is what you’ve been doing constantly. You state your interpretation, and claim them to be undeniable fact, but you can’t prove them. You don’t even try.

As to the Great Destroyer not destroying the Central Transfer Chamber – that’s because the CTC was using magic Primordus had already leaked out. It wasn’t siphoning from it, it was siphoning from the air around it.

Chances are, the Great Destroyer could easily have been siphoning the magic of the CTC, rather than outright destroying it, while utilizing its system to its advantage.

Slowpokeking.8720:

It doesn’t matter, Jormag spent so much effort to drain from these people, so it had to make some significant amount of time.

Here you go again, spouting your interpretations as undeniable fact without concrete proof.

It’s possible, certainly, but it isn’t a definitive.

You present only definitives. This entire time I’ve presented evidence that points to the contrary. There is no definitive scenario known to the players yet.

Mordremoth has not been seen corrupting plants yet. Apparances lead to him creating corruptive plants instead. And these corruptive plants can corrupt corpses.

Zhaitan and Primordus are known to be capable of corrupting living beings – in the case of the former, we have two situations: Kellach and Necromancer Rissa; though there are various hearts in Bloodtide Coast and Sparkfly Fen where we see corrupted plants (‘living’) and living beings becoming sick due to Zhaitan’s corruption (though this appears semi-curable? Or at least delayable).

Similarly, Kralkatorrik has been seen corrupting inanimate materials (the Shatterer, earth elementals, and the very ground itself).

In a way, it is a hexagon – if you remove Tyria (the central orb) and close the gap between the two sides, it’s an evenly spaced hexagon even. I imagine that the width is simply due to height issues with the E2 cinematic which shows the same design. Most computer screens are widescreened nowadays, and in order to fit the design in with detail, such is the screen size they had to make the design for.

What’s interesting to note, however, is this:

• Primordus is opposite to Kralkatorrik – Primordus liquifies; Kralktorrik crystallizes (solidifies)
• DSD corrupts water, a liquid; Jormag corrupts ice, the solid form of water

Though this connection ceases at Mordremoth and Zhaitan, really, but then again, the circle designs also differ from those two and the other four.

Prophet.6257:

Is this what the “spheres of influence” are?

No, the spheres of influence seem to deal with how they corrupt, and the form their corruption takes.

BobbyStein.2315:

Back on topic. It seems that people liked the lore books. How would you like to see them improve or evolve? Examples help.

One word:

Storybooks

I’m not speaking of the content so much as the design. When you opened it up, it would show a book, and you can flip the pages.

Another, similar, item spawned a scroll

If you can tie items and interactive objects to reveal more book or scroll-like dialogue boxes, that can hold both text and images, then that’s really all you need. Then take the books here and replace the old with new dialogue boxes, expanding them, and creating more to read. And then take the short stories and old blog posts and add them in the various libraries in the game (DR’s library, the main library DP may be too full though, the DP basement – see below – etc.).

Another thing to do: Make the Durmand Priory Basement (access to Ogden’s secret room pending) accessible to everyone via The Durmand Priory instance with a new set of books.

I did not recognize Rytlock.

Slowpokeking.8720:

What fact? They could live in a few of the trenches but not all of them, and the ones near the dragon could have been killed.

Or all of them were near the dragon, and they were forced into a flee or die scenario.

No, it gave the dragon magic so it could rise. Same with Primordus lost its power.

Exactly what I was saying. You just excluding that it rose early.

Where does this nonsense "interview " come from?

Using the alarm clock is a bad example. The dragons do not truly “awake” unless it had enough power. We can see the whole process of Jormag’s awakening. Same with Mord, it woke because a lot of magic was sent to it. Primordus was pushed back simply because it didn’t gain, but lost power due to the death of its champion.

Unfortunately, it is a very old interview and was before folks like myself bothered having an archive of interviews, so I haven’t been able to find it.

But it isn’t nonsense.

The reason the Great Destroyer was an alarm clock was because it was feeding Primordus magic. In the same sense, Scarlet Briar, Drakkar, and Svanir were alarm clocks. We killed the Great Destroyer, preventing Primordus from gaining energy and rising early; we killed Svanir, but not Drakkar, slowing Jormag’s rise but not as much as we could have; we failed to kill Scarlet before she woke Mordremoth, allowing him to rise early.

“For the next hundred fifty years, the voice seduced more norn, and they joined the cult, becoming the Sons of Svanir. They believed they were drawing upon the ancient voice, but in fact it was drawing upon them, gaining the power to rise.”

It lasted for a long while for sure, since the dragons don’t care about just a few years and Jormag continue to spend some effort to gather these Norn, it could have given him a big amount, 5-10 years early at least.

And you know how long it was between Svanir’s death and Jormag’s rise? About 100 years.

Do you know how long it was between Jormag’s rise and GW2? About 150 years.

And how long were norn being seduced with promises of power? 150 years.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

Not very reliable, it would seem. Unless you’re misquoting.

If you can find them in multiple fantasy settings, or mythologies, or if the terms are generic, then they cannot be copyrighted (and enforced).

Even with names, it’s very hard to enforce a copyright, and most authors won’t really try to except for an attempt to get money rather than actually caring about a copyright. Unless you’re using the same background lore and a large number of unique names, that is.

CureForLiving.5360:

Do we know of any relation between the Krait and the Forgotten? Or is it simply a coincidental similarity.

Such has yet to really be brought up, however it’s been confirmed that naga and Forgotten are unrelated, and the Forgotten come from the Mists (supposedly around the previous dragon rise – the date humans give to them arriving from the Mists is 1769 BE, so either humanity’s wrong there, or the previous dragonrise was not in 10,000 BE).

Naga and the GW2 design of krait are rather similar – far more than either to Forgotten – so the chances of naga and krait being related are decent, while the chances of krait and Forgotten is low.

For those who can’t hear well:

“The legend is true. There is a dragon egg. Every force on Tyria will want it. Especially Mordremoth. This egg could be the key to defeating the dragons. It must be found, at any cost.”

Narrated by, I believe, Caithe.

I would argue some is dodging. The Aerin question for one – if he was corrupted, by now – even by E4 – such should have no issue being told. So why the whole “the truth is still unknown” on that?

Eleri Tezhme.3048:

And I love that the White Mantle have just been hiding out in the wastes for 200+ years, plotting their revenge.

You know, Mordie did have to be awake enough to get into Cera and Aerin’s minds, and the Mantle have been doing Gods knows what out there near where the dragon has been sleeping…

Mordremoth isn’t in the wastes. He’s beyond the wastes. Season 1’s ending cinematic showed him beneath a dense jungle that was past a wasteland.

Noticed no one brought it up here, so here I am doing all ya’lls job. :P

http://www.guildmag.com/lore-interview-september-2014/

Tried adding it under a spoiler tag but too lengthy. Anyways, this seems to be written from a pre-E5 reveal notion, but a few interesting bits.

The Pale Tree is the source of the ‘immunity’ to dragon corruption (only Mordremoth can get past it). So sylvari would lose that immunity, for starters.

And unless a new tree is found – Malyck’s, perhaps – there would be no more new sylvari.

Beyond that, baseless speculation.

Yargesh.4965:

We can see an ancient pale tree in the new zone, they seen to coincide with the dragons waking from the little I have seen. If it dies the magic it holds would be fair game to the dragons.

Screenshot please.

Slowpokeking.8720:

No, it means a few trenches like I linked. Like I listed, they were very far way from each other. It makes no sense if the Krait lived that far away from each other, so obviously they lived in a few of the trenches but not all of these trenches and DSD woke in a different place. Also, these trenches might not be the deepest place. Even if a few of the tribes do live near, DSD could have simply annihilated the ones near it.

Ignoring the fact that you linked Earth’s geography, you’d be right:

it would make little sense (though not no sense) if the krait lived that far away.

But you see, they don’t live in all the deep trenches.

They live in THE deepest trenches.

Difference.

You say that the DSD woke elsewhere, but you have no proof. You’re spouting unsupported conjectures.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Mordremoth was not yet to awaken, as pointed out by dsslive.

It did awake.

Forcefully. At a time it was not going to awake if not for Scarlet Briar giving Mordremoth one of the biggest power surge on Tyria.

It would be like giving a sleeping person a shock treatment to startle them awake three hours before their alarm went off.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Are you denying the fact? REALLY?

The Movement of the World

Primordus was the first of the ancient dragons to awaken, calling his servants from their slumber. With his breath, he twisted earth and stone, shaping creatures and giving them life. Although the death of the Great Destroyer, his most powerful general, set back the dragon’s awakening by two generations, Primordus once again rose to create ever more minions far beneath the ground. To this day, he continues to spread his power throughout the deep caverns beneath Tyria.

The so called “Natural 50 years agenda” breaks immediately with this fact.

Seriously, I don’t think you don’t know this since you even checked this article when writing your thread, but simply because you want to ignore it to support you point.

I am not denying anything.

In an interview after The Movement of the World’s release to the public, the Great Destroyer was explained to have been acting as an alarm clock for Primordus, to wake him early, and to prepare the way for Primordus’ coming by wiping out all life on the surface.

What I said was not contradicted by that article. We’re, in fact, saying the same thing:

Killing the Great Destroyer pushed back the awakening of Primordus that the Great Destroyer would have caused.

But the interview explained further: the Great Destroyer was trying to wake Primordus up early. Thus by killing him, rather than “putting Primordus back to sleep when he should have woke up” it was more that “we hit the snooze button on the alarm clock (Great Destroyer) before Primordus would wake up to the alarm clock, leaving him to wake up on his own, naturally.”

I deny nothing.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Since Jormag was draining on many Norn worshipers for around 90 years and spent a lot on the effort, it could have let it woke earlier for many years. But that does not matter really. With Primordus’ original timer being set at 1078, there was at least a 90 years gap(maybe 100 years if Jormag hadn’t drained power from others), which breaks the “50 years” cycle unless we put a dragon between them.

The timer which was a sooner-than-should be timer. Just like Mordremoth.

And where do you get 90 years from, exactly? Because nothing says that the Sons of Svanir came into existence shortly after Svanir’s death. It likely took quite some time for that to happen. And the Sons of Svanir has been stated to be relatively small until recently. How small would it have been when formed, and how much magic could they really take from the Sons of Svanir before they grew?

Slowpokeking.8720:

So they already moved to their surface at that time.

Do you not know the meaning of “raiding party”?

They came, they raided, and they leave.

“Equally comfortable above and below the water, the krait have never felt truly threatened by any of the land-dwelling races of Tyria. Perhaps that is why they have not bothered to communicate with other races. They have no need of anything land-dwellers can give them, other than slaves for their use and sacrifices for their rituals. However, the krait can seize those for themselves—with ruthless efficiency.”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadows_in_the_Water_%E2%80%93_The_Krait

Their exodus ~50 years prior to the game is different. The entire race fled their home – their first loss in known krait history. And an utter defeat it was. This was not just raiding to seize land-made tools and slaves, it was becoming refugees.

It said a few very deep trenches. It’s not a single place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceanic_trench#Deepest_oceanic_trenches

They were far away from each other and only one is the deepest. Obviously the Kraits lived in a few trenches of the Ocean that were not very far away.

You quoted it yourself, and it said “deepest trenches”. Meaning there is no trench deeper than where they lived.

Nothing says that the Unending Ocean’s deepest trenches are spread far apart – and nothing says that, even if they were, the krait didn’t live that widespread.

Also where is the source of the location of DSD’s awakening?

The Movement of the World.

“In the deepest waters of the sea, another dragon breathed, twisting the waters themselves into tentacled horrors that rose from every lake and river of the land.”

Deepest waters of the sea; and not the Sea of Sorrows – so what sea, perhaps the Clashing Seas (between Tyria and Cantha)?

Deepest trenches of the Unending Ocean – and where in the Unending Ocean, perhaps where they can be found by human ships: between Tyria and Cantha (the Clashing Seas)?

Deepest. Same general location.

And DSD might not awake in the same place with the Krait, the Ocean is a even bigger place than the whole Tyria.

But there is only one ‘deepest’.

Just as there is only one ‘widest plain’ and only one ‘tallest mountain’. There is only one ‘deepest trench’.

Wrong, Mordemoth woke only 7 years after Kralkatorrik. Also, Primordus originally was going to wake in 1078, around 90 years before Jormag’s rise.

Slowpokeking.8720:

I know that, if you count this in, then our forces pushed back Primordus’s awakening by 42 years. Jormag’s rise was also accelerated by its worshipers. If we put mortal’s influence away, Primordus and Jormag’s rise would have a huge gap for at least 100 years or more.

Mordremoth was not yet to awaken, as pointed out by dsslive.

Similarly, Primordus was not yet to awaken in 1078 AE – keep in mind that the Great Destroyer was an alarm clock. The Great Destroyer’s death left it to wake when it was meant to.

In all honesty, Jormag’s rise being pushed forward is the best argument you’ve yet to give. But who’s to say how soon it was risen? Zhaitan was still awoken 54 years after Jormag.

The best possibility for your argument would be “Jormag’s early awakening caused Zhaitan to also awaken sooner, but not Kralkatorrik” or “Zhaitan had an unknown-to-us means of waking early that, like Jormag, was not stopped.” Or even, if you’re desperate, “Glint caused Kralkatorrik to wake up late, and Mordremoth woke up when he was supposed to, relatively.” But in all honesty, this is no different than saying “Balthazar and Grenth share mothers.”

Though nothing says that Jormag rose early, and if he did, how early, in all honesty, given the fact that like Primordus, Jormag had at least one champion killed: Svanir.

Actually no, due to how few races get access to that plot, it is the one personal storyline chapter I have not had the pleasure of experiencing. And a lot of dialogue in PS steps – especially talking to NPCs during and even more so after steps – are missing on the wiki.

What I’d like to see with the krait is that the DSD & champs do turn out to be their prophets, but because of this revelation there becomes a civil war amongst the krait race (well, more of one there is) creating three groups:

Toxic Krait, whom have already schismed away after their minds altered by Scarlet (Mordremoth influence, I suspect)
DSD-corrupted krait, including all of the Oratuss that’re pre-corrupted by the DSD, who end up becoming champions themselves (thus proclaiming themselves as prophets), with the most zealous and xenophobic krait amongst them
And rebellious krait, whom have a good-guy-bad-guy relation to the other races; when they’re in a pinch they’ll accept aid, but usually prefer to prove they’re still the top dog of the world and they don’t need no stinking Elder Dragon to flood the world for them, they’ll do it themselves with their own Prophets (aka denying the belief that the prophets are DSD champs)

Could create an interesting dynamic – do you assist the rebels at risk of them being enemies later on (almost undeniably), or see them as just another threat (still) and take them out now?

More than just Abaddon gave magic. All six gods did.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

How could a dragon NOT cover Marjory’s mouth and bring a knife to her throat, in the middle of Divitnity’s Reach? Explain to me that

Given the size, a single nail would cover the entire head; good luck holding a dagger used by standard races in such a hand. Effectively, at least. And good luck using a full hand to cover just the mouth.

And it’d be quite the squeeze to go into the streets, I imagine.

And yes, I know you’re sarcastic there, but I’m answering seriously.

Ayakaru.6583:

Like I said, it’s hard to use your character for that purpose, but lorewise they were invented for that reason because they could pass information through the spirit realm. A ritualist could either extract information from a spirit(ual being) or use the spirits to ship information in a mere second. I’m very well aware anet didn’t give us those skills back then.

Even in story and lore, spirits were not used in this manner in a general sense.

Because it supposedly takes a lot of effort to bring back a specific spirit.

So you can end up summoning 100,000 souls and not get the one you’re looking for unless you put in a lot of effort each time.

And usually when such is done, it is for inducting the spirit into Tahnnakai Temple.

Chris.3290:

The entirety of LS1 was mapped out by the time it started. The artwork, level design, etc has all been done long before hand. The hardest part is doubtlessly the implementation and bug scouring.

This is false, and proves that you’re talking out of your kitten . They had Season 1’s plot thought out, but it was not made. They made the content from four months prior to its release, until release itself. Each month’s updates had 4 months work on it – this was stated several times throughout Season 1; and after Tower of Nightmares, there was a livestream in which they said that they put all effort they were allowed in their four months to make that as great as they could.

This includes artwork, level design, voice acting, and writing.

They only had the outline of the plot done. And even that was altered to the responses of the players.

Hey Boss, look at this interesting rock I found.

Boss, boss, boss, boos, booss.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

@OP: While there are many commanders, we’re pretty much “The Commander”. Like what pdavis said.

Going off of all of 2014, the set up seems to be:

2 months of Bi-weekly releases (note: 4 releases)
2 month mid-season break for holiday, feature batch, and/or WvW tourney.
2 months of Bi-weekly releases (note: 4 releases)
4 month post-season break for holiday, feature batch, and/or WvW tourney.

Rinse repeat.

dsslive.8473:

But it would be Glimmer (the baby dragon) using his connections, those who are bound to protect glint and as a result her offspring, to do this for him. We know that the Zephyrites took over that position and that tehy are mainly humans, so they wouldn’t stick out in DR. Ofc a dragon can’t jsut walk in DR hold a knife over her throat, don’t be silly :p

Still hits two roadblocks:

1. E is the person Marjory met. So if the person Marjory met is not ‘Glimmer’ then Glimmer is not E.
2. Why would E focus solely/mostly on Krytan politics (everything has been LA or DR politics, or related to the Krytan nation) if he/she was a Zephyrite?

EnemyCrusher.7324:

She’s one of the more important characters in the later parts of the personal story. Players would have to not be paying any attention to not know who she is, unless they’ve just forgotten her because they did the living story so long ago.

She only shows up in the asura VAL-A golem, sylvari chapter 3 and Whispers’ plan after Further into Orr.

A human, charr, or norn who goes with the Priory or Vigil’s plan will never meet Elli until the party after Zhaitan’s defeat.

And given that most people play humans, and most prefer the Priory plan, that would be most people.

Slowpokeking.8720:

So it showed a few of them already came to the surface long ago.

And what does the existence of raiding parties (for that is what krait lore dubs them – source ) have to do with a confirmed (source – note Angel here points to a wiki page which has been altered sense, here is the version she linked to) case of the krait fleeing their home due to the DSD?

Slowpokeking.8720:

It’s not saying a single deepest place, but a few very deep trenches, it doesn’t mean DSD and the krait lived in the same place.

False. It says the deepest trentches. Aka the deepest trentches in the ocean. So unless the DSD awoke in an abyssal plain that would be deeper than the trenches, it would be at those deepest trenches.

Slowpokeking.8720:

It showed the DSD didn’t affect all the creatures right after its awakening since the Ocean is very huge. It only affected them after it invaded their territory. So the time of the krait’s invasion might not accurately match its awakening time. Just like Jormag’s awakening didn’t affect Krytan people for a long while.

Jormag didn’t awake in Kryta. Norn were forced out in ~4 years after Jormag’s awakening. Deepest trenches is where both were.

Furthermore, it should be noted that Jeff Grubb confirmed that the Elder Dragons awoke approximately every 50 years. Per the aforelinked post by Angel McCoy, the ~50 years has a wiggle room of +/- up to 15 years. So between 35 and 65 years can pass between each awakening. Between Zhaitan and Kralkatorrik is 101 years. Between Primordus and Jormag is 45 years.

Rukh.9287:

Oh am I imagining all the gold bubbles and melted gold?

Given that those things are all black… Yes.

Slowpokeking.8720:

There were Krait, a bunch of them in GW1. So it’s not like they have never been in the surface. The Ocean is very huge so the dragon might not have come to their territory until 50 years ago, they might also want to live in the upper floor of the ocean until Zhaitan’s navy occupied the sea. The karka came to the surface only for a while, does it mean the Deep Sea Dragon only woke for a little while? No. Obviously the Deep Sea Dragon had awoke long ago but only invaded their territory recently.

The krait having been to the surface before is irrelevant.

There cannot bot two deepest parts if the ocean. “deepest” means the singular most deep. Both are said to have been at the deepest parts of the ocean.

An exodus only needs to occur once, so what purpose does that comment on karka have? Another irrelevant fact. Norn only fled Jormag for a little while, does that mean Jormag was awake for only a little while?

Rhaegar.1203:

As far as I know, Margonites ruled the Crystal Sea.

Both The Crystal Sea and parts if the Unending Ocean. Most likely the part between Cantha and Tyria – dubbed the Clashing Seas.

There has been long speculation on races not part of the Five elder races that seem to have been in an alliance surviving

Karka, djinn, tengu, kodan, krait, and even charr and norn all have some hints or knowledge (often via myth) to come to such a possibility. Unlike Elysian’s claim, we have no confirmation for any of them. And I have never heard if the ogres having legends of the Elder Dragons.

Charr and norn apparently have myths on the dragons.
Kodan have the story of “the great storm” which sounds like something Jormag does.
Tengu seem to have unsaid knowledge on the Elder Dragons.
Zomorros mention a time when Karka fled the see once before, when the continents shaped differently, indicating but not proving djinn and karka being around the last rise.
And krait is the most speculative; there is the Blue Orb, the obelisks, and the prophets all pointing to such.

The origin of the Orb is lost, and said that there are consequences with having it – if literal, it may be a case of corruption taking hold like the artifacts Kellach and Necromancer Rissa had that spread Zhaitan’s corruption.

The origin and purpose of the obelisks are also lost.

As is who the prophets were.

That is a lot of lost knowledge for a race of powerful memory and smart mathematicians.

A theory that I adhere to is that the prophets that seek flooding the world were actually the DSD’s champions (and/or The DSD itself). And that the obelisks were used to trap their magic when the champions were killed, to keep it from returning to the Elder Dragon(s).

Chrispy.5641:

Well, then that would mean that the Norn’s concept of the gods, being spirits of action, is probably closer to what we need if we’re going to compare them to anything else on Tyria.

Which is something I bring up every time people try to make a connection. And usually they do such by ignoring Kormir and using Abaddon – but at the same time, using Grenth but ignoring Dhuum.

Each god has 5+ themes to them by the various human cultures:

Dwayne: Life, Air, Light, Warmth, Healing, Existence
Melandru: Nature, Earth, Animals, Plants, Growth, Creation
Balthazar: War, Fire, Honor, Combat, Battle, Mass Murder, Destruction
Lyssa: Beauty, Illusion, Chaos, Water, Inspiration
Grenth: Death, Ice, Darkness, Cold, Sorrow, Strict Ethics, Judgment
Kormir: Knowledge, Truth, Secrets, Order, Spirit

And for fallen gods:
Abaddon: Knowledge, Wisdom, Secrets, Water, the Depths
Dhuum: Death

Dhuum has a lot of unknowns for what he was called the god of.

As you can see, a lot of this is just different words for the same thing. The norn call Balthazar War, Kormir Knowledge, and Grenth Death. Now take that, and look at predecessor and successor:

Knowledge and Death are the only shared things between Abaddon/Kormir and Dhuum/Grenth. Grenth was called the Prince of Ice and Sorrow before he became a god.

So the gods may only have a single domain in the end.

The gods seem to have more metaphysical aspects. On the other hand, the dragons seem to be more physical and natural. Things that exist by themselves, and not what must be acted upon.

Under such a thought, they would only overlap with Life, Nature, and Death.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Because I think they tap into the resident magic, rather than innately carry all of their powers inside them. This is why I think they have spheres of influence on this planet: Because Tyria’s magic is divided into spheres. It would also explain why other creatures on Tyria also adhere to these spheres of influence. Certainly they are not all from the same origins as the human gods. Yet they all seem to abide by similar rules. I think that’s simply because that is how magic works on Tyria.

It makes sense for natives of Tyria to adhere to the spheres of Tyrian influence, but as Drax points out, it isn’t perfect to the gods (or, for that matter, the dragons).

I suspect that the gods took all the magic from their home world with them, and I agree with Drax that they tried to shift the Bloodstones into those spheres with the schools of magic, but things got messed up.

The only possible relation between god and dragon that I see would be same roles for different worlds.

skullmount.1758:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

They use male and female norn models. 2 male, 1 female.

Huh, I could swear there were only two pink/purple holograms. Unless there’s one farther to the left that I couldn’t see (around the gate).

that would be correct. One is hard to see but there’s three.

Be sure to be in American districts when in gw1, and try to find an active guild. Folks are often congregating in Kamadan (Nightfall), Embark Beach (any campaign), and Temple of the Ages (Prophecies) last I saw.

Underdark.3726:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Another example, would be Nick’s book about the Bloodstone – how could Nick know this stuff? I mean, the Priory had to learn it from somewhere, sure, and it’s plausible Nicholas Sandford could know the Seer’s ties to the Bloodstone and the truth of Abaddon’s gift of magic, but the chances of that are so unlikely even given his travels and ties to Durmand.

The description says “Notes taken by a young Nicholas in discussion with his friend Durmond”.

I’m aware of this. But that doesn’t answer my question of how Nicholas – especially a young Nicholas – could learn things long hidden from human history for centuries/millenniums.

Also: I don’t think Nicholas knew Durmand until after the Searing – he was no longer “young” then.

dsslive.8473:

Also, when people talk about Glint’s baby, tehy don’t mean the egg. They are talking about Glimmer, the baby dragon that we protected in guild wars 1.

Uh… Where’d you get the name Glimmer?

Rukh.9287:

I think Glimmer is a great theory.

To you and all those who think that Glint’s child is E, explain to me this:

How can a dragon cover Marjory’s mouth and bring a knife to her throat, in the middle of Divinity’s Reach?

Gieniusz Krab.8259:

lordkrall.7241:

Kormir was also blinded. Kormir came from Elona.

Being blinded != Being a ritualist.

I am also quite certain that ritualists aren’t blind, they simply cover their eyes in order to be able to focus better (or something like that).

Ok, ritualists are first association which came to my mind in the first second of seeing that Rytlock picture. As you said, Kormir is blinded too, but not a ritualist. Because Kormir is related to Elona (She’s in the Mists, but borned in Elona), that also would mean an expansion.

Blindfolds exists in Tyria too, even in GW1

Ritualists are indeed not blind by default – some were, like Aeson, but not all. The blindfolds were part of seeing the “spirit threads” – though what such were, has never been expanded upon.

According to Priestess Rhie, the gods are not in the Mists.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

it is worth pointing out that Rytlock isn’t a light armour wearer though.
Maybe his profession is changing to Necro?

NPCs are allowed to mix-and-match armor classes – even town clothing. They don’t follow the same mechanics, or mechanically may have unique armor that is literally copies of other classes’ armor.

Ayakaru.6583:

And ritualists were removed because their main purpose was information exchange long distance (according to lore, my ritualists never did anything exept spirit spam). Since technology has passed 250 years, ritualists have become unnecesary. The only ability they would have returning for is carrying ashes and summoning spirits.

Uhhh….

The only profession I’ve ever seen tied to long distance communications would be…

Honestly, none.

Ritualists were guides for the spirits of the dead, capable of calling souls from the Mists with ease, and use the power of one’s ancestors to suppliment spells of different schools of magic.

Chrispy.5641:

Even if you argue that Abaddon’s magic corrupted the Margonites and it was this corruption than gave way to those wings, it could also be assumed that Earth and Nature magic ‘corrupted’ Melandru when she absorbed that power, and grew wings as a result appropriate to the magic she absorbed?

I think the wing evidence falls apart when you expand the lore we’re looking at a little and consider this. With or without the wings, the possibility that (all) the gods could have once been humans is still in play. Their blinding divinity doesn’t really matter at this point, since we know that a human can absorb a god’s power and become a god, alleged divinity and all.

The nature of Dwayna’s and Melandru’s wings – even Grenth’s in the one depiction with them – is of feathers. More akin to harpies, rather than Margonites who’s entire insides have been made ethereal.

It is theoretically plausible that the gods’ appearance was changed, but it was far less drastic than Ewan’s tribe or the Margonites.

And think of this:

If you argue that they can grow wings, or change humans into demons (Margonites), then perhaps their human appearance is because, after becoming a god, they changed their body to be human-like?

There’s really no way to prove such an argument of “did they grow their wings” or “did they make themselves human-like”.

However, at this point, we’re going far away from the original point. You asked:

Chrispy.5641:

Here’s a question…

If the ‘human’ gods aren’t humans, why do they take human form?

And the thing is, they’re not called the human gods because they were humans, or because they take human form. They are called human gods because that’s who worships them in the modern times.

Even if they looked like humans, if only the charr worshiped them, they would be called the ‘charr gods.’

Basically saying “the human gods” is no different than saying “the gods worshiped by humans.”

Edit:

A retcon is still a retcon, and a hole in the lore is still a hole in the lore though, is it? The way Anet answered that questions seems just a little incomplete, even you have to admit that (and no, It does not create fanon by saying the answer isn’t good enough) The reason they left has to be more complex than just “We meddled too much, so lets let humanity wipe themselves out….or save themselves…or get eaten by the Charr…whatever.”

No one said anything about a retcon.

And this doesn’t change the fact that the gods left in year 0; 1120 years before the first Elder Dragon awoke, and 1078 years before the first Elder Dragon activity.

If they were leaving due to fear of the Elder Dragons, then either:

1. They left very early.
2. There was ED activity in Year 0.
3. They should have remained longer.

Only communication ceased after Nightfall. Their presence was gone – with only exception being rare cases – for a thousand years.

So where’s the plot hole? Where’s the retcon?

People seem to forget this simple fact. They went silent after GW1. They did not leave after GW1. There is a huge difference. And when you think of it as that (stop communications) rather than the common misinterpretation (leaving), then what Jeff Grubb said is not ‘missing’ anything at all.

They left because of their and Abaddon’s actions in 1 BE/Year 0. They stopped communicating when Abaddon no longer threatened Tyria.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Well as I explained, in a world that has so much magic, you need to have higher standards when it comes to defining a god.

“Things normal people cannot do” is still “things normal people cannot do”.

Normal people cannot terraform worlds.
Normal people cannot prevent or allow resurrections across the globe (and more?).
Normal people do not rule over afterlives.
Normal people cannot kill people via dance off. :P

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

These primordial monsters are however generally speaking, monsters that only the gods fight, and only the gods can kill. But with the Elder Dragons, we fight them as well, and we have even killed one (which as far as we know, means we’ve killed more Elder Dragons than the human gods).

After a long struggle to weaken the beast in multitude of ways. It is common in fantasy tropes to kill fallen gods.

We did this in GW1 – you were not questioning them being gods then – and killing Zhaitan would be akin to killing a fallen, weakened, god. Because he was weakened and whereas a fallen, weakened god can usually be beaten by a powerful individual or a group of semi-powerful people in fantasy stories, a weakened, starved Elder Dragon being beaten by an entire army equipped with anti-Risen weaponry, and still suffering heavy casualties… In all honesty, that’s not too surprising to me.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Like I said, in a world full of magic, your standards for defining a god need to be higher. Thorn, Zeus, Hades, Odin, they could all do things no living mortal could do on our world. But on Tyria, dozens of players can hurl lightning bolts, and raise armies of undead minions from the soil. You need a little bit more to claim someone is a god.

Standard mortals cannot raise armies of undead minions. Even liches take a lot of time for this – but Dhuum, a fallen god, can just seemingly snap his fingers and bam, 1-3 skeletons out of nothing.
Standard mortals do not live for thousands of years. Of the living, there are only 1 known case, and 1 other hinted case of such a thing.
Standard mortals cannot empower an entire army at once. No mortal has been seen doing such a thing, not even the more powerful ones like Livia, who was seemingly powerless in the face of a risen army.
Standard mortals cannot reshape the world.

The gods can.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The gods knew of the elder dragons, and conveniently left Tyria before they awakened. They basically left us to die. If WE know that the Elder Dragons have wiped out countless generations before them, then surely the gods know as well. What other excuse can there be? They went where the Elder Dragons wouldn’t be able to touch them, or feed on their magic.

Unlike what Leeroy Jethro Gibbs says, coincidences do happen.

Also: the gods left a thousand years before the Elder Dragons woke. They stopped contact three years before the Great Destroyer rose – approximately 50 years before the first Elder Dragon woke.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Yeah, and risk their creation being wiped out completely, just like nearly every race before us? I’m sorry, but that argument doesn’t fly. Not even when its Jeff saying it. It makes no sense. It sounds like a weak excuse.

“I don’t care if the writer of the story has said something that proves me wrong, I’ll just handwave the writer’s words away.”

Welcome to fan-fiction land Malafide. Because by cutting away canon lore – which that is, until something in-game says otherwise (and nothing has) – you create fanon lore. Or fan-fiction.

Ayrilana.1396:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Ayrilana.1396:

From me. He said a few days and Sunday is more than that. There’s your set date.

chuckle

Now see, when he said “a few days” I figured sometime in December.

They could have said soon.

I thought “by the end of the year” personally, when said “a few days”.

They said “a few days” for getting back to us all on the Fear storyline getting cut and the Source of Orr storyline being moved earlier than the rest of Orr PS storyline; this was back in September. Still no word.

“Soon” was used even back in 2010 for GW2’s release. Two years, for Anet, is “soon”.

Months, for Anet, is “a few days.”

misterman.1530:

Yeah. Not holding my breath that I will “win” a prize. My experience with RNG and rewards has been dismal at best. You beat Zaitan…here’s some toenail clippings and such. Thanks. I can’t imagine my luck will be any better with this raffle.

Yeah, same. I only put in ~20 wrappings. The winners will be those who bought hundreds from the gemstore.

Wouldn’t surprise me if they’re the only candidates in all honesty.

Eshady.9146:

Makka.3620:

so , can we get someone here to answer the million dollar question
how many days are the " few " days…

A: Not many but more than one.
Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/few

You’re using normal person speak.

Curtis uses Anet speak.

Kythan Myr.4719:

I know. That’s what my question was originally about. Why does the dev team set things up from the beginning to cause drama?

It is downright impossible to make a game, and have zero exploits, bugs, or errors.

If you make such, either you put a hell of a lot of time into it, or you’re a kittening miracle worker.

The devs don’t “set things up” like that, they and their testers don’t think the same way as those who find the exploits. I bet that they do, however, think of several exploits we players never see because they fix said exploits they think of.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I would instead suggest that are tied to the magic of this world, and thus use the same magic, but in their own way. Which is why Mordremoth uses plant growth to destroy other life, where as Melandru is all about allowing all nature to flourish.

Why would magical beings from another world be tried to this world’s magic?

Chrispy.5641:

Why indeed. If Lyssa could live hidden/veiled in the village of Wren, and not force the whole village to go blind, then obviously the Gods could stand before mortals without blinding them. If Lyssa could hide her blinding ‘divinity’ why can’t all the gods?

Because it wasn’t Lyssa’s true form, while the statues show their true appearance – though we only see three of them anymore, two were corrupted and changed.

Dwayna appeared before mortals without blinding them too, but it was under an illusionary form.

Their true forms blind. False forms don’t.

kolompi.1287:

You guys are trying to make sense of a lore that will never work simply because it made sense in the framework of GW1 where we could play only humans and – unless we throw away 90% of that lore – cannot be applied to GW2’s attempts at creating a framework.

Five races, five different belief systems and since arenanet never presented us with a framework in which all of these belief systems would fit, we are left with speculations.
Eternal alchemy? Gods? Spirits? These can all be dismissed as racial beliefs but we would need something that explains how the world of Tyria works, preferably without totally disemboweling GW1 lore and with tons of retcons.

Actually, they do work without throwing out old lore or retcons.

The issue is that ANet is so convinced that they cannot keep gw1 lore as is without it making gw2 lore being human-centric.

Grenth wasn’t water, though he was the patron of water elementalists it should be remembered that almost all water magic skills were ice; even Water Tridant was actually three shards of ice being tosses out.

I can’t see Abaddon tied to shadows at all, honestly.

And we know Mordremoth is Mind and Plants – not mind and creation.

As always, attempting to tie god to dragons directly fail. Always.

The Six Gods come from another world and came to Tyria as gods already. Why would they be limited to the spheres of Elder Dragon influence (and vice versa)?

Slowpokeking.8720:

It clearly was showing the order of the dragons’ awakening.

Really? Because there is more than one interpretation of that no-context vision. So clearly, it isn’t clear in what it means.

You’re trying to shove your speculation as fact.

It could be order of strength, awakening, age, or a dozen other things.

Aside from the vision, all things point to the Deep Sea Dragon being active only 50 years prior to Zhaitan’s fall. Not 150+ years. Both the Krait and the DSD are stated to have lived in the deepest part of the ocean – meaning the Krait lived on top of the DSD, so when they were pushed out – ~50 years ago – that would be the earliest activity of the DSD.

Rukh.9287:

This might mean nothing but it also might give insight. The gold orb in Orr is slowly turning everything around it to gold. I think it’s pretty likley that somehow that orb is linked to Kralkatorrik. The thing is though, it’s not actual gold. There are elementals around that have been transformed, and these aren’t gold elementals, they’re pyrite elementals. Fool’s gold. The orb transforms things to have the illusion of beauty and wealth, but its just a mask.

Maybe Kralkatorrik isn’t trying to make everything “itself” so much as its own corrupted ideal of beauty. i.e. a really twisted aspect of Lyssa.

Kralkatorrik isn’t linked to gold, and the golem that is piloted by an Inquest asura when powered by the orb’s magic chants ‘must protect Orr’ – not very Elder Dragon like.

Yeah, they were just examples. The GW1 list to go to the above GW2 list:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Category:History_of_Tyria

But the most important ones would be An Empire Divided and The Movement of the World.

I don’t think Glint is an appropriate use. Some of her abilities seem unique to herself. She seems to have a ‘bright’ variation of Kralk’s crystals and the aspects, but some more.

Rather than the telepathy and pocket dimensions, look at what remained after her death: air magic (aspects) and crystals.

Because we see nothing of facets, illusions, pocket dimensions, or telepathy with Kralkatorrik or the Branded.

As to the concept of ‘dragons are dark versions of the gods’ magic’ fails just as much as any other ‘Dragon=God’ theory. You work perfectly for Balthazar and Melandru, but try extending it to all gods of all generations.

You’re definitely lacking a Dwayna or Dhuum/Grenth, presuming you tie DSD to knowledge, Kralkatorrik to illusion (no real reason to believe either), and have Zhaitan and Jormag left.

Dhuum can’t fit Jormag, but neither can Dwayna.

Guys, debating in this thread is pointless. Slowpokeking is just denying your arguments as proofless, and if provide proof he just twists your argument.

Even if a dev came in here and said that he was wrong, he’d still argue that he’s right. I’ve seen such happen before, and he’s acting just the same. Wouldn’t surprise me if he’s the same person, honestly.

The Shadow of the Dragon was hovering around the egg and pushed off by a beam of light in the vision. And the crystals it lowers into shatter to depict a huge growth of vines.

Then there was how Aerin, corrupted by Mordremoth, was after what the Master of Peace had. And he, apparently, had the egg with him.

Mordremoth is targeting the egg. This is for sure. Why is the question.

I translated the bottom sea one as “Tazmre Cove”.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

It is marvelous to see so many mesmers together in one thread.

So you only have one place to wipe out? :P

Xukavi.4320:

I’m not exactly arguing saying some Elder Dragons can or can’t create/corrupt to make their minions. What I’m saying is that we might have preference of each Elder Dragon.

Though I don’t think this holds any form of power over the spheres of influence. And I agree – I’ve recognized this since, about 2 years ago.

Xukavi.4320:

Primordus: Do we have an account of a time when he corrupted a living being? So far all I’ve seen is him creating Destroyers.

Not sure if it was this thread or another recent one, but I’ve had to point his out a lot recently.

It was an interview. Here