Guild Wars 2

Slowpokeking.8720:

The exact quote?

She made clear “my master” not “my former master” a couple of times.

The dragons were created because there were no other dragons other than Glint and Drakkar before their awakening. Quite a few of them, including the Dragonspawn was also created by Jormag, of course those dragons were part of the creation. Otherwise where did they come from when the Dragon awoke?

Glint made it clear she felt sad when she did it, I don’t see why are you keep twisting it.

She said “my master” and not " my former master", true, but she used that phrase (“my master”) when talking about the past. E.g., I defended my master.

As in, Kralkatorrik was her master then. Does not require for the situation to remain true. Which it doesn’t, as she said.

The Dragonspawn was not a dragon. Dragon champion, yes, but not a dragon. Drakkar similarly is never called a dragon, but a dragon champion. Dragon champions come in all shapes and sizes. Dragons come in two shapes: Tyrian dragons and Saltspray dragons.

And what all constitutes Tyrian dragons?

Glint, Rotscale, bone dragons, The Shatterers, Claws of Jormag, The Great Destroyers, Shadow of the Dragon, Tequatl, Blightghast, and the many dragon’s in Orr’s skies.

Of these, only the Shatterers and Great Destroyers are known constructs. With the Claws of Jormag and Shadow of the Dragon to be possibles.

Dragon minions are known to be incapable of pregnancy – because their bodies are elemental or rotten. This may not be so for Mordrem though, but it is for all the rest. Only creatures pregnant upon corruption can lay eggs (potentially give live birth too but we have yet to see this). The fact Glint has crystal eggs hints she was pregnant when corrupted.

And Glint and Rotscale – bone dragons known to be corpses that were raised out of the ground which is when they lost their lower half, Rotscale included – were compared to each other even after Glint’s reveal as a dragon champion. So if Rotscale was once living, but doesn’t seem to have been a dragon champion, and is ‘the same but different’ from Glint and Kuunavang, and Kuunavang is a living dragon… Rather heavily implies Glint wasonce a living dragon. Her pregnancy, regaining free will, etc. is but icing on the cake.

I’d guess that it’s a case of lack of art resources given all the new models we have in this episode – and likely the next few too. They likely would have wanted a Glint-looking model rather than retexturing one of the other dragon’s.

Lore wise, Marjory and Kasmeer mention that the lair is decaying I think, so they appear like Icebrood/Jade Colossi because they’re fragmented facets.

Marjory and Kasmeer are used as exposition tools recapping everything known about Glint in the story step Hidden Arcana. They include talking about the Forgotten freed Glint.

They gave her free will, but it was her ability to read minds that made her change.

Glint says that Kralkatorrik was her master, not that he is.

There is evidence. But you just handwave it away as irrelevant without any proper cause. And nothing says that all dragon shaped champions were created. We see that the Shatterers were, the Great Destroyers likely were and the Shadow of the Dragon may be too, being planty, but nothing says so for the rest.

Continuing this is pointless because your taking Glint’s statement to be the full story when it’s clear it wasn’t, and dismissing everything else because ‘Glint didn’t say it’.

The others clearly didn’t know the goal of her plan, and Angel McCoy stated that the foci alliance had their minds messed with – they weren’t thinking straight.

And given some similarities I’m seeing between Mordrem and the Tower of Nightmares, I think that mind messing was Mordremoth’s subtle influence.

Ceara (aka Scarlet Briar) was corrupted by Mordremoth it seems. She wanted to wake Mordremoth because she was turned/turning into a minion. With sylvari, Mordremoth can corrupt them, but it shows as a battle if wills – schizophrenia, effectively.

I don’t think Mordy is after using the egg, but killing it – perhaps to steal any magic within it.

The Dragon in the vision is not Kralkatorrik but the Shadow of the Dragon. Both the Shadow of the Dragon and the vines seem to be trying to get st the egg, but the beams of light seem to keep it at bay.

There is still nothing to suggest the Pale Tree to be Mordy’s champion. In the recent release, Aerin is said to have called the Pale Tree and Dreamers ‘the Hive’. This may be relevant to the opposition that the Elder Dragons show to sylvari (Mordremoth may have attacked directly, but Zhaitan’s assaults on the Tarnished Coast only began after Riannoc’s death it seems).

In fact, all Mordrem look drastically different from both the Pale Tree and sylvari. If anything, though there is no statement of such, we pretty much have visual confirmation of no relation.

I really don’t see a tie between Kralkatorrik and chaos. The only relation beyond purple fire and purple beams used by average branded (which is not much of a relation) is a Chaos Storm like effect used by the Branded Plants at Lowland Burns (where the Shatterer lands). And I would look more to purple being a common theme amongst Elder Dragons (some late areas of Orr are purple and quite a lot of Mordrem vines give off purple mist/glow), and rather the chaos part of the chaos storm-like effect, look towards the more common part: storm.

Branded show up in lightning strikes when spawning. The Brandstorm that is permanently above the Dragonbrand makes Branded go crazy with energy. The lightning strikes of the Dragonbrand can corrupt (seen in Iron Marches). Glint’s aspect relate to air magic, including lightning.

There are so few ties to chaos for Kralkatorrik. But so many to air/lightning.

But we know that she underwent a ritual that frees dragon minions from an Elder Dragon’s will. This has even happened to Glint.

Do you really think that ArenaNet would reveal the entire story before the game was even released?

Do you really think Glint would waste time explaining her full history when Kralkatorrik was waking and about to come attack her?

Glint never said she was created, why must she say she was enslaved.

Glint is known for keeping secrets – like the fact she was a dragon minion and not a creation of the gods like was spread for thousands of years.

More than breath, but golden fiery breath if memory serves me right. However, air would make sense, given that Glint’s aspects are all air based, and the whole corruption through his breath. And how he has such a strong tie to lightning himself (the Brandstorm).

And if memory serves me right, Eir mentions Jormag corrupting the Sons of Svanir’s souls in one of the early PS steps dealing with them… Or was it Seiran in chapter 4 for Priory… I had always taken it as metaphorical for how their minds change, but maybe not.

I am doubtful that Primordus would be life. All/Most Elder Dragons can make living minions from stone – the Dragonspawn, the Shatterers, for example.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Then how did she regain her free will?

The NPC made a mistake, simple. She knew little about Glint compare to the dragon herself.

Dragon minions don’t have free will. They are enslaved when corrupted, fanatically devoted to their dragon. That is the entire point of the Forgotten ritual – it does not remove physical corruption of the body, it restores the individual will.

It was not the case on Glint obviously.

But I also felt their agony, their loss. It grieved me.

That bit Glint’s quoting is – as shown in this episode – AFTER THE RITUAL.

If Glint had free will from the get go WHY DID THE FORGOTTEN PUT HER UNDER THE RITUAL?

You are right – she did have free will. AFTER THE RITUAL. She grieved. AFTER THE RITUAL. But you are wrong – she regained her free will BECAUSE OF THE RITUAL.

Think about it.

Assassins prayed to both Grenth and Lyssa, actually.

Kormir is Knowledge, Order, and Spirit. Never tied to water.

Which gives me a consideration…

Jormag has ties to the Mists – even in GW1. The Nornbear’s skills were mostly spirit-related (all but 1).

Charging Spirit
Shattered Spirit
Spirit Roar
Spirit Senses
Spirit World Retreat (Note: the “spirit world” and “spirit realm” are used interchangeably with the afterlife parts of the Mists)

And in GW2, we see him with his interest in the Mists, he consumed a Spirit of the Wild (Owl), possibly 4 (Ox, Wolverine, Eagle), tried to do so to a second-fifth (Minotaur).

What if Jormag’s second sphere is that? Spirit.

Which would make:
Mordremoth: Mind + Plants
Zhaitan: Shadow + Death
Jormag: Spirit/Soul + Ice
Primordus: ? + Fire
Kralkatorrik: ? + Crystal
Scleritethin: ??? + Water(?)

Of course, the entire attempt of tying the DSD to water is purely hypothetical. We know it corrupts water, but Primordus is the Fire Dragon not for corrupting fire, but for its corruption resulting in fire (it’s been stated that if Primordus were to corrupt living beings, they’d be encased in rock and their body slowly liquified into lava – similar to icebrood with ice). So it’s possible that there isn’t an Elder Dragon tied to water at all.

Just a thought.

Which that would tie Jormag into Grenth and Kormir, in a way.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Glint had free will from the beginning. As it was told by herself.

Then how did she regain her free will?

Dragon minions don’t have free will. They are enslaved when corrupted, fanatically devoted to their dragon. That is the entire point of the Forgotten ritual – it does not remove physical corruption of the body, it restores the individual will.

Glint does not tell her full history to Destiny’s Edge – not once did she mention the Forgotten ritual, for example. She only tells them what they need to know (or rather, what she thinks they need to know, which was enough).

What Glint tells Destiny’s Edge is events that happened after he regain her free will.

Slowpokeking.8720:

The ritual mostly removed control, but she did have her own thoughts from the beginning.

“Having her own thoughts” is not the same as “having free will”.

But Sea of Sorrows, Edge of Destiny, and various cases in-game point to the fact that dragon corruption alters one’s personality – it is effectively brainwashing with someone else’s will. They can act ‘individually’, but they have a hive mind. The forgotten ritual removes that brainwashing, giving them their own free will.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Dragons were all created, and Morgus Lethe’s special ability as a champion was given by Zhaitan, not his own.

Source on the first part?

Zhaitan’s dragons could be corrupted dragon corpses. The Claw of Jormag contains bones in its body – where did those bones come from. There are many hints of a dragon race. Not all dragons were created, it may be. Glint certainly wasn’t created, so all hints point – and nothing points to her having been created.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

That seems a bit of a jump. The Master is supposedly trying to hatch the egg, which inclines we to think we want to help for what a dragon can do, not because the egg might have a passive corruption-cleanse buff.

To me, it seemed that he was just trying to hide the egg, not hatch it. Ogden mentioned that it’s been in stasis since Glint’s death – so the Master of Peace likely had it for ~7 years now.

Slowpokeking.8720:

She was created by Kralkatorrik, of course she was part of his power. Her oracle ability was given by her master to stop those who wanted to kill the dragon. Unless we have any proof of her got power from other source, she was a champion of Kralkatorrik, of course her creation was part of the dragon’s power as well.

Warden Illyra hints that Glint was corrupted, not created, by Kralkatorrik.

Warden Illyra: Glint remained in crystalline form, but she regained her free will and identity.

To regain something, one must have had and lose it.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

We have that she was said to have regained her free will, which would require her to be independent in the first place. Dialogue in Arah indicates she was a pre-existing creature who was corrupted, whereas no source indicates she was created by Kralkatorrik.

Warden Illyra: Glint was a champion of the Elder Dragon Kralkatorrik, but somehow she shook off his yoke.

It’s quite clear, I don’t think we should argue on this any further.

Morgus Lethe was a champion of Zhaitan. Before corruption, he was a norn.

A dragon champion isn’t solely created, they could be corrupted.

It’s just evidence of no proven connection – and no proven lack of connection. Exactly as it has been.

It has changed nothing.

Zaklex.6308:

as for the complaints with the Fort Salma mission…I’m going to have to disagree a little, sometimes, if you’re one to believe in spirits…the theory goes that when someone dies suddenly and unexpectedly, their spirit does not know that they are dead and can become confused.

We see confused spirits in Tyria. Just about all ghosts in Brisban Wildlands are confused and lost.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Krytan_Villager
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aaron_Fletcher
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Robin_Neils
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elwynn_Kirby
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grahm
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Isabaeux_Navarre
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jaden_Fletcher
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mosreh_the_Exile
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Watchman_Pramas

These are all confused ghosts. Confused ghosts will often not realize they are dead, they may think that they’re still in the situation they were in during or near death, but they in no ever situation in the past mistaking the player for whom they are.

I kind of took it to be a mess up for what should have been “the races”. Because it really messes up the entire timeline.

Honestly, I would have thought Mordremoth to be will and plants while Jormag to be mind and ice – close but still different concepts. But I guess mind is Mordremoth.

Going off of Mordy and Zhaitan’s spheres, one of the two spheres is how the dragons’ described when they’re called the “Elder <something> Dragon”

Which means we have half of the spheres already:

Fire, Ice, Water, Crystal, Death, and Plant

The other spheres for both Zhaitan and Mordremoth don’t make much sense to me. So trying to guess the spheres for the other four seem fruitless. If I try to tie Mordy to mind, the same kind of connection doesn’t fit for Zhaitan and shadows, and clashes with Jormag having the same kind of connection to mind.

Diovid.9506:

Erukk.1408:

Jaken.6801:

- Belinda is now possessing her sword and Majory is wielding it. How often have I seen that? I hope something cool comes out of it. There are so many oportunies here. Please let it be cheesy, like her being able to summon Belinda for some special attack action or something.

I hope I’m not the only one that got Ritualist-y vibes from that whole scene.

GS+Necro=Ritualist, confirmed! =P

To add to this, Marjory (and her family) are of Canthan descent. In addition, there is that story about Marjory and the ghost boy.

What I hope happens: Marjory learns how to combine ritualist and necromancer abilities and then teaches us how to do that.

What I think happens: At some point in the story Marjory finds herself in a situation where she needs extra strength (either offensive or defensive) and Belinda does a thing.

Please don’t think that necromancers have nothing to do with ghosts.

Excluding in Cantha, Necromancy has a long standing tie with doing what ritualists do in Cantha: balance life and death, and guide spirits to their proper resting place (the Mists). Ritualists have the added part of ‘easily’ summoning spirits to fight for them or defend them – necromancers doing such take time and attracts demons and hostile spirits from the Mists.

That book is just a reference to the lore forum threads like this one that try to create a connection, but fail to.

Fun fact, the new Pact weapons are made in the design of their flagship, The Glroy of Tyria.

@Zaklex: carapaces are the shells of insects and arachnids (eight-limbed insect-like invertebrates). Devourers are arachnids.

Wanderer.3248:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Mender looks like a small fully-plant copy of a troll

To me they look a bit like Grawl, or possibly monkeys.

Grawl and troll share the same general shape. They are definitely plants and not corrupted beings. More likely based off of trolls too given that grawl are native to Ascalon and displaced to the Shiverpeaks. The only relation grawl have to jungle is in the Edge if the Mists.

This is all preparations for extending the weapon sets for all professions. Necromancers get greatswords. Engineers get mace and torch. Ranger gets hammer. Mesmer gets main pistol and horn (with flute like skills). Warrior gets dual daggers. Elementalist gets hammer. Thief gets main sword and off-hand axe. And Guardians gets longbows.

Hard to say. It may be that only a dragon can handle such large amounts of Tyria’s magic. Given that they consume magic, maybe they simply are the ‘natural balancers’ and that while other beings can replace them, it’s simply easier to go with dragons.

I doubt the Six Gods themselves can due to how they messed things up pretty badly while the dragons slept.

Edit: I just remembered. The Eye of the North facets encountered are said by Jeff Grubb to be a reflection of the power the gods harnessed. I had taken it to mean Zhaitan given the Seer path of Arah – the Six strengthened the Bloodstone with Zhaitan’s magic.

But what if their world originally had dragon’s as balancers, and the Six Gods replaced them. But not being dragons, they couldn’t balance properly, leading to the world’s destruction.

Shadow magic is also associated with necromancy, but no, not illusions.

And I don’t recall mentioing such to Trehearne on my sylvari. I’ll have to play through it again… Next week, darn going out of town.

Something I forgot:

Ogden tells us, knowingly or not, what happens when the Antikytheria becomes imbalanced – how the world dies. As he says, too much magic and the world falls into chaos, but not enough and the world decays. Depending on how the world can fall out of balance, neither can happen. My theory on the world humanity and the Six come from is that they led it to decay – the gods took too much magic, leaving it to rot. This would explain how killing a god results in magical explosion, but killing an Elder Dragon does not – Zhaitan did not have the amount of magic the gods did, having taken all of their world’s magic. Reason for my thinking this is a line from Angel McCoy stating that humanity did not have much experience with magic, hence why they thought the gods created it. This could extend to their home world.

The Six Gods seemed to have been governors for their world, continuously balancing things. The Elder Dragons however balance at extremes – wait until magic hits one side of the extreme, then brings it to the other and let it repeat. The Elder Dragons however do not seem to intend to balance the world. The second instance – perhaps only for sylvari – implies that Mordremoth seeks the world’s destruction. Zhaitan was heavily hinted to seek ruling the world. Kralkatorrik is heavily hinted as wanting to obtain everything. Jormag is fixated on power and having only powerful individuals beneath him. Primordus appears desiring to kill life, though that’s heavy speculation there.

The Elder Dragons balance extremes, but not by desire to balance, but because they consume too much too fast, resulting in starvation and hibernation. If they hindered their hunger of magic, they may actually succeed in their goals.

The Elder Dragons are a necessity for the world, but the individuals can be replaced, like the Six Gods. In fact, they must be replaced if ever killed… Like Zhaitan.

Interesting hypothesis.

Elaborate.

Thosha.1974:

There is an option for “Player Instrument Volume” in the volume settings. I would assume this includes the backpack, but can’t test it.

And yeah, WvW or other large crowds will become very annoying that way

My Player Instrument Volume has been on mute since it was added.

I still hear that annoying golem I wish I can send to the scrap heap. No, I don’t have the backpack.

This is by far THE worst part of the update for me. Even the lore conundrum and side-quest irrelevant-to-the-main-plot first story instance doesn’t compare.

draxynnic.3719:

Meanwhile, we see how the Master of Peace received Glint’s egg… or what we believe to be an egg, anyway. ¬.¬

Ogden confirmed it was an egg – the last egg of Glint’s to be specific, been in stasis since her death apparently.

I too got two rares.

Looks like you were bugged, m’boy.

Edit: As an addendum, I’m making my prediction for the future of the plot:

We’re going after the egg and will use the Baby Dragon from GW1 as well as the to-be-hatched dragon as replacements for two Elder Dragons. Since this is “the last egg” and there were several in GW1, we may even see more of Glint’s children in the future, already hatched between the course of the two games.

No one denied that we’d be going north of then Dry Top. You said that we’d still be in Dry Top, while I said it’d be a new zone.

Shiren.9532:

I think the Priory are jumping the gun a bit with the Mind sphere thing. Two data points (Scarlet and Aerin) are simply not enough to conclude something as big as Mordremoth’s second sphere of influence. Maybe they will establish clearly in the future why Mordremoth is the dragon of the Mind, but so far I’m unconvinced.

It seemed to me that they got this from the “Scroll of the Six True Gods” aka “Tome of the Six Gods” (seems to have two names).

Still, subject to debate as such, but not based off of Ceara and Aerin.

Shiren.9532:

Assuming the Mind sphere is the way ArenaNet is going, we might be able to connect the ToN in a third way – the toxic pollen messed with our minds. Maybe the Toxic Pollen from the Tower of Nightmares is actually related to Mordremoth and that’s why it has mind altering powers (the delusions, including visions of our mentors and other figures – people Scarlet shouldn’t have known about). Maybe Scarlet was using the Nightmare Court’s knowledge (combined with her own) to somehow study Mordremoth. I’d need a timeline for Scarlet’s descent into madness, but she may have been using the Tower of Nightmares to figure out how to fight Mordremoth (and free herself). Using the Toxic Pollen afterwards (and the Toxic Alliance) to attack Lion’s Arch was just frugal use of resources. Imagine if the plant matter of the Tower of Nightmares was similar to Mordremoth’s vines and the anti-toxin could be used to fight Mordremoth. If the mind altering powers of the toxic pollen was similar to Mordremoth’s mental corruption of Scarlet, maybe observing how the heroes of Tyria fought it could give Scarlet clues on how to free herself.

There’s also how the krait of the toxic alliance had their minds altered too, to be more favorable of Scarlet. Though this wasn’t shown in game and came to us via Angel in the forums. Good point to bring up.

WARNING: SPOILERS TO ECHOES OF THE PAST’S FINAL INSTANCE. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

What is the Antikytheria?
Also called “the All”, it is a diagram showing Tyria in the center, with six spheres of magic – or “bodies” as described by the Apostate – around it. I have compiled all mentions of it in the first three attachments.

Ogden says that what the asura call the Eternal Alchemy is also the All, but also mentions that their attempt to define it pushes them away from understanding it, and that their perspective is limited.

The design on the ceiling that denotes the first letter of each dragon is a design of the Antikytheria.

According to the Apostate, when the balance is destroyed, the world can end. This may hint to the vision seen in Episode 2 with the orb – now labeled as Z for Zhaitan – crashing into the center – now known to be Tyria. The vision was a depiction of what the Apostate describes, so it seems.

Six Gods. Six Dragons
Long in the community have there been attempts to tie the Six Gods and Six Elder Dragons. Some tried relating them as opposites. Others, as the same beings. Always, the connections fail. Now we have reason for a connection. Two actually.

The first is the Antiketheria; according to the Apostate, its center is not Tyria, but “Thyria”. Why the change? Perhaps an error in ancient Krytan translation. Or perhaps where humanity came from – the Apostate, living in the Realm of Torment, not far from the Domain of Secrets, may learn such information.

The second is the revelation of the Elder Dragons having two spheres of influence, rather than one. Unfortunately, forgot to screenshot this, but it is from the beginning of the instance Hidden Arcana. Mordremoth is “mind” and “plant”; Zhaitan is “shadow” and “death”. The other four are unclear to us presently, on their second sphere of influence. Similar to the Elder Dragons having two spheres – the Six Gods have always been attributed with at least two spheres of influence of their own; Dwayna is life and air, Grenth is ice and death, etc. An issue comes into play with how one of these spheres seem to change amongst generations – Abaddon was the god of water and knowledge, Kormir has no tie to knowledge; Grenth is the god of ice and death, Dhuum had no (known) ties to ice.

But must they match perfectly? I say no.

There is now a third piece of evidence hinting to a similarity – see attachment four. It was believed that Glint would become an Elder Dragon.

But there can be only six, right? Unless they it’s a replacement.

Think about Grenth, Abaddon, and Kormir. They all replaced their predecessor. Though Dhuum lives, he is not a god. He is not of the Six.

After Zhaitan’s death, his magic returns to the world. And Tequatl grows stronger. Glint was ancient and powerful, ready to become an Elder Dragon.

Like the Six Gods, the Elder Dragons can be replaced.

My theory is that the Six Gods were akin to the Elder Dragons for the world humanity and the Six Gods came from. We know that Abaddon had a predecessor, and that Balthazar brought his father’s head in hand when coming to the world. And there has been suspect of a cataclysm that they were escaping. What if in their world, something tied to Abaddon’s ascension and/or the death of Balthazar’s father broke the balance of the Antikytheria and it wasn’t fixed in time to save the world, plunging it into decay and darkness and forcing the Six Gods to flee?

That is my theory.

The Elder Dragons are NOT the orbs
In the vision, yes, the orbs were showing the Elder Dragons. But take note of attachment two. They are spheres of magic, the norn thinks of them as spirit realms. The Elder Dragons are not realms, though they consume magic they are not magic.

The spheres are realms of magic – perhaps the four schools were amongst them, though that’s speculative – and the Elder Dragons balance magic. One dragon per sphere: one dragon to balance each sphere of magic… their sphere(s) of influence.

Going back to the vision – yes, there were six orbs, which were related to the Dragons… but there was also the design behind the orbs (before lighting up and moving about). The outlines – that make up the ceiling design – would be the spheres of magic. Comparing vision to design; the orbs that were the dragons, are the smaller circles with a letter within them.

Yeah, that was a bit disappointing.

They could have easily used the Dragon Bash Shatterer for this, given it’s a minion of Kralkatorrik, is hollow and thus would fit the “incomplete crystal dragon” idea, and GW1 facets were transparent gray – the holoShatterer is transparent white. Close enough.

When you get the protection, you can enter the middle; minions, pets, and illusions should all also get that protection.

The voice is most definitely Glint’s child, imo.

Mister E is most likely not that dragon. I think Marjory would have been able to tell if a dragon snuck up behind her and covered her mouth and had a blade to her in the middle of Divinity’s Reach.

I think Mister E is either Master of Peace, or someone working with him and Ogden (Ogden mentions others being interested – very Whisper like, but I don’t think he refers to them; I think he’s referring to a group that includes himself, Master of Peace, Livia, Pale Tree, and Mister E – why Pale Tree? the vision; why Livia? She knows a lot of the Elder Dragons in Sea of Sorrows; why Mister E? Seems like that’d be part of his cup of tea, in all honesty, given he sent us after Scarlet and Mordrem).

Sublimatio.6981:

Well if I remember well, Snaff in the book said it’s not true that it’s in a single grain of sand. The lair was just hidden under and illusion. Apart from that, I played gw1 and the lair in gw1 had stable ground, sand, walls, boundaries.

It should be noted, however, that htey only enter the area we are at in the mission outpost.

The mission outpost in GW1, and the mission area itself were VERY different. The latter being very crystalline, while the former being very Crystal Desert-like.

So it easily could be both, and the entrance to her little grain of sand would be behind the illusion.

All Elder Dragons’ corruption alters the minds. So I presume the ‘sphere of influence’ refers to a method of corruption or a preference of magic.

The thing is, Jormag has known cases where his champions had directly affected the minds of others. Drakkar converted Svanir by whispering into his mind (telepathy); the Dragonspawn hypnotized Zojja into a trance when ’Dragonspawn’s Destiny’ (read: Eir, Zojja, and Snaff; prior to Destiny’s Edge) fought the Dragonspawn.

While Jormag offers promises of power, this is in no way tied to his influence or corruption. It is little different than the risen’s continuous promises of reunion with lost loves.

Erm… we’re in the Silverwastes.

The place looks completely different from what was in the Dry Top map, which had huge mounds of sandpiles and sandfalls. No such thing in the Silverwastes as I saw.

And we go into the new and completely different from Dry Top zone via Fort Vandal.

Yes, we’re in the area that is north of Dry Top, but it isn’t “northern half of Dry Top” – it’s a new map.

If anyone would do the “I was totally right” dance, it shouldn’t be you. :P

Anyways, the forts and other structures look very similar to Prosperity, imo, so I’m betting White Mantle.

Jormag’s corruption always takes the form through telepathy and mesmer-like qualities. He corrupts through mentality.

We have seen Mordremoth’s ties to mind though, in Aerin and Ceara – though given the descriptions of them by the Pale Tree, their journals, and the Masters, I would think its more “will” than “mind”.

Jormag does give promises of power, but wouldn’t that point more towards his sphere being promises rather than power? But this is for “spheres of influence”. With one, thus far, we have how their corruption manifests – death, plants, fire, ice, crystal. The other is questionable, though. Zhaitan and shadows wasn’t very common at all, illusions were far more common for Zhaitan’s forces.

And please, Mickey, unless you have a source for that… don’t state it as if it’s fact.

As far as I’ve noted, we only got confirmation for Mordremoth (Mind and Plant) and Zhaitan (Shadow and Death)..

I highly disagree with your proclaimed spheres for Jormag, Kralkatorrik, and Primordus. Sure, they make sense – they’re all tied to the ED somehow. But consider this:

Jormag promises power to those he corrupts. Zhaitan promises reunion and immortality through undeath. So wouldn’t that make his sphere “Death and Eternal Community”? Not Shadows. And Jormag doesn’t corrupt through power, like Mordremoth does through mind.

I think Zhaitan’s sphere of “shadow” refers more to the Risen Wraiths – they appeared to be made of shadow, and could hide themselves from mortal view at times. His corruption also resulted in shades spewing from the ground.

With that in mind, and Mordremoth’s corruption resulting in plants, and done through the plants’ mind (supposedly), then we see that the spheres of influence refer to how they corrupt and what the corruption looks like.

Thus the result would be:

Jormag: Mind and Ice (or Desire and Ice)

Kralkatorrik: Physical and Crystal (he corrupts things that are physical for the most part)

Primordus: Fire and Rock (he’s called the “rock dragon” at one point just as he is called the fire dragon all the other times, his minions are twisted stone, corrupted by being bathed in lava)

Quite a few books make some oddities. Like misspelling Abaddon as “Abbadon”. Though they’re forgiveable.

Fun fact:

in the final instance of E5’s story steps, where the diagram on the ceiling is, there is a Priory Historian that states he thinks that the translators got it wrong – because the name was only in portion, and in an ancient form of old Krytan – which used a hard-to-translate format where the symbol’s meaning changes based on what comes before and after it.

So the DSD’s name actually may not start with an S.

Just participated in the beginning of the finale for the Silverwastes meta event.

There’s some things I’ve noticed that are interesting:

• In Caithe’s Reconassiance mission, that big purple flower looks very similar to the heart of the Tower of Nightmares to me. This marks the second similarity to the ToN stuff – the first being Iron Marchs’ spore sample event which has pollen that was used in the ToN areas.
• Three new Mordrem models (not including that big Vine -something- object): Troll, Mender, and Terragriff. Mordrem Troll looks like a fungi-infected Troll (similar to wolf); Mordrem Mender looks like a small fully-plant copy of a troll; Mordrem Terragriff looks like a plant copy of Colocal – but with a head similar (ish) to Drakkar. The aforementioned Vine object that looks like a carnivorous plant with a vine for a tongue, functions like the Toxic Offshoots (relation to ToN #3!).
• The finale happens in four tunnels beneath each fort; the entrance looks like a mouth. The tunnel itself looks like the inside of the Triple Trouble wurm you enter.

Wish we were able to beat the meta, but two of the four champions (the one I was at included) didn’t die.

If you take out the first instance, I would agree with you 100%.

But that first instance really puts a damper on me. Similar to the first instance of E4, and less so but also first instance of E3, it just felt jarring.

Where Utopia is thought to have been. We never received confirmation that Utopia would have taken place west of Tyria.

Jaken.6801:

- Caithe and Canach were there… I expected more of them. He has become quite docile, aside from his remarks, but I like that he is still up to his explosives. However does he still count as an engineer? He wields a sword now in battle.

I don’t think Canach was ever considered an Engineer. He always used a sword – from the Lost Shores to Last Stand at Southsun. He just also used bombs in Last Stand.

Jaken.6801:

I mean, how long has it been since the Shadow of the Dragon attacked a capital? Can`t be that long.

Supposedly things happen in real time.

So 2 months have passed since then.

Jaken.6801:

- Speaking of Bleinda: kitten did she look creepy… but not in a good way. Don`t do close ups with these faces… ugh…

All Foefire ghosts look like that. I like it. And I like how it’s usually completely unique to them.

Jaken.6801:

- They harvested Zaithans Tail… so they disected him? Orr is accessable up to Zaithans dead body? I want to travel there and see his corpse…

No need to cut Zhaitan up. In the story instance, the laser gun we use cuts off three of his tails. They simply needed to collect what was already cut off.

The rest of his body is still unaccounted for.

Jaken.6801:

- Master of Peace has Glints egg and it came down from the skies… geez the whole visions are really straight forward, aren`t they?

Are you sure it was from the sky?

The “Mysterious Voice” really felt similar to this cinematic in GW1 where we first hear Glint.

Jaken.6801:

- Lot`s and lots of books. Interestingly Scarlet`s Vision has been depicted as the natue of the world and if one thing goes off balance we will fall from the earth… While i skipp the obvious flat earth theory (thought it could actually be… how sure are we that Tyria actually is a planet and no a flat plane? Aside from some depictions like in the OoW HQ?), I really like the “unbalance part” here. What if we are already unbalanced?

Pretty sure it’s metaphorical, but this touches what interested me most.

Did you talk to Ogden after the story step was considered completed?

Jaken.6801:

- So we meet three Zephirite initiates who are looking for their master… is it a coincident that the Master of Wind is bald and has blue glowing eyes? You know, like some Airbender in a famous show. Going into an Avatar state?…

Initiates? They’re the mysterious Masters we kept hearing about. :P

Jaken.6801:

- Gods and Eldar dragon connection… not prooven, canonical in game… i like me some meta humor on our behalf…

That was just a reference to the lore community’s constant attempts to connect the two. The note that there’s no sufficient evidence points to that all attempts fail.

This is one of a few references I see to the lore community being referred to as “Priory scholars” – another can be found in Camp Resolve, forgot the NPC name but where you meet Trahearne in the instance, an asura. She mentions that Priory scholars suspect Mordremoth fed off the magic in the Maguuma Jungle to turn it into the Wastes but disagrees because his corruption results in jungle growth not deserts. Mordremoth being the one who dried the Jungle was one of the theories behind it before its reveal.

Jaken.6801:

Yeah, in retrospect that really was weird. Do we have any oher palces in Tyria with similiar ghost activity?
The only place I can think of would be the pirate and bandit ghosts in on top on Gendaran… like the one with the ghost Doljak.

It felt weird. They really should have made this a simple talking instance.

No, aside from the Foefire ghosts, no ghost in the game – GW1 or GW2 – ever mistakes living beings for something else.

Jaken.6801:

Found somethings that I will make a separate dedicated thread for though.

I think nobody would mind. i open these threads for general discussions and that other topics can bloom from them

One word once I re-do it all and look more heavily.

Apostate

So redoing Reunion with the Pact, I had paid more attention to dialogue and found something interesting – which may or may not be unique for sylvari:

Aerin was bragging about being Soundless. He called the Pale Tree and Dreamers “the hive” that he would bring light to and the Masters note that he was acting like having a battle of wills, often saying odd things like seeking to destroy the world and agreed with the PC’s question of whether or not he was exhibiting dragon corruption. Taimi concludes that he and Scarlet were both fighting Mordremoth’s influence.

What’s most interesting is the fact that Mordremoth’s will that Aerin was fighting wants to destroy the world. Different from the previous rule/consume that we’ve had with the other Elder Dragons (particularly, Kralkatorrik, Jormag, and Zhaitan).

The Ghosts of Fort Salma
In all honesty, I didn’t like this instance.

• Why were the ghosts mistaking players and Campbell as Mordrem? The only other ghosts that mistake living beings for something else would be Foefire ghosts, and this is an explicitly stated UNIQUE aspect of the Foefire – alongside their returning irregardless and personality changes. The closest we get are a small handful of ghosts who vehemently deny being a ghost due to hysteria – but they still view living beings as living beings (until the hysteria brought by stating they’re a ghost is brought to a new high, like Watchman Pramas ). So this makes no sense to me. It feels like they felt like the instance – which itself feels like a side-quest and not relevant to the plot – needed combat and so slapped this situation in. Could have at least made Belinda a fight…
• Regarding the side-quest feeling, this feels disconnected from the main plot thus far. Sure there may be a point behind our new ghost-imbued sword, and our second greatsword-wielding necromancer (my charr necro better be able to wield a greatsword by the end of the year at this rate), but it’s not (currently) relevant to the main plot. This, and previous interactions with Belinda sans Disturbance in Brisban, feels akin to The Dejarin Estate quest chain from Nightfall. A side-plot.
• And regarding the combat – it feels like they just needed it in, when they didn’t, because of how tough the foes were. The normals were as tough as veterans, so it was like a full instance of veterans.
• And why did Belinda’s model change from white (like any non-Foefire ghost, sans Godlost Swamp and select Ascalonian non-Foefire ghosts like Pramas) to blue (like any Foefire ghost) during the cinematic?
• And gods, Marjory’s comment when you first talk to her. “my world turned black”. I get it, sister died… but that’s not all the happiness in her life. Enter Emorjory, who forgets that she has a hot blonde lover and more sisters and a mother that love her still. And friends. I get depression – I have it – but “my world turned black”? Sounds very overdramatic.
• And is it just me, or does it seem like Belinda had a thing for Marjory? Not only her parting words (“My love for you is everlasting.”) here but also the words – and tone – back during BfLA:Aftermath when she said “I can’t stay long, my dear. I’m just here to count your limbs and listen to your heart. So, how is your heart?” – the tone was like that of a caring lover to me.

Overall, this instance felt like a distraction to me. Though the cinematic was awesomely done, so props for that.

Reunion with the Pact

• I found this instance much better. But I am SEVERELY disappointed in the lack of us assaulting Fort Vandal – even if it ended up being empty, I would have enjoyed being part of the siege that.
• Also seems that they made no changes to the open world events or heart – like Concordia. Jarring in immersion. However, all forts thus far have been attacked because they held magical artifacts…
  So what was at Fort Vandal?
• Also seems Fort Vandal wasn’t their HQ, which is interesting given how heavily defended it was before.
• Instance itself was enjoyable, but didn’t note anything too noteworthy.

Caithe’s Reconassaince Squad
Enjoyable, nothing really to note.

I’m growing tired of the enforced hate and suspicion on Canach though. I don’t mind it as a dialogue option, but why not allow a separate dialogue branch where we don’t threaten his life at every turn, hmmm? Because at this point, I’m seeing my own character as an evil kitten for not giving redeemers a chance at redemption without throwing continuous death threats.

Hidden Arcana
askjdlskdjlskajdlsajdklsa

Loregasm.

That is all.

Disappointed the Facets were no longer dragons, though.

Found somethings that I will make a separate dedicated thread for though.

Yeah, I realized and denoted such in my first post there.

Which I find very fascinating. According to my and WoodenPotatoes’ attempts, most of the stuff we haven’t seen in GW1 are more of descriptions, though a few here and there are not.

What interests me, however, is not the names. But the existence of two other ports that had/have routes to the Battle Isles.

I think he means to make it part of the open world/accessible without having to listen to Marjory and Jory drone on and on. Or simply to return to it in the future in some way.

Also: https://i.imgur.com/V4crBUB.jpg

The cieling texture pulled out of the dat.

Words read:

Beware the danger of secrets kept.

And we got ourselves a triforce in the Map of the Mists. Or, in GWverse, the Triforge Pendant’s design.