Guild Wars 2

Tachenon.5270:

Well, technically, it doesn’t say we’ll visit ‘lands’ — it says we’ll visit ‘places’. If that makes a difference. Such places might include the place where Queen Jennah goes for her weekly royal pedicure. Or Evon Gnashblade’s kitchen.

Good point. Lands implies new geographical landscapes. “Places” is just a location.

Wizard’s Tower dungeon confirmed.

Shylark.4951:

Well if the game was right a Fail should mean no reward at all… Not sure why it is set up that a fail is better then success??? I always try to do my best I hate failing at stuff…

The reason why failing gives rewards is because ArenaNet didn’t want players to be “so close” to success and get absolutely nothing for their effort.

This past week, every farm I see doing it attempt to complete it. It sometimes fails – especially when Claw pops or map closing pops. But I’ve yet to see an intentional fail.

Lands only rumored to exist. Legends of Tyria’s Past.

Cantha confirmed.

I really hope that the Marionette is brought back as a guild boss mission.

And when Season 1 is brought back as permanent, we can have a “weaker” Marionette for the story journal. But the true fight will always be the guild boss mission.

There’s a lot we could be seeing.

If we talk about the Maguuma Jungle there’d be:

1. the Temple of Balthazar
2. the Druids
3. The Bloodstone
4. Possibly the Mursaat (depending on which theory you subscribe to for Saul’s wandering)

If we think about the vision the Pale Tree gave, we have:

1. That golden place, whatever it was
2. The orb in the center of the golden place
3. A place tied to either or both, a stepping stone to reaching that place
4. A place that we’ll visit after the golden place/finding the orb, which acts as a stepping stone to somewhere more important

This being in reference to both a “rumored place” and “legends of Tyria’s past”.

Chances are, the “rumored place” will be the golden structures, the question is returning back to the discussions from just after E4: what is that location?

It’s actually not proven that the Lost Scrolls turned Khilbron into a lich. As you said, an NPC’s words are valuable, but not absolute. NPCs can be wrong, if there’s a – as you put it – “more official source or fact”.

This means that NPCs can be called into question by equally reliable sources, and we cannot be sure which – if either – is the situation. That’s the situation we have on our hands.

And the question does have to do with the Lost Scrolls’ power. Re-read Jeff Grubb’s wording. He’s describing Zhaitan not being affected by the sinking of Orr in response to whether the Cataclysm (aka the Lost Scrolls’ power) affected him.

Jeff Grubb gave a description of the effects of the Cataclysm (aka the Lost Scroll’s power).

And if you watch the intro cinematic for Arah story, it shows the Cataclysm – which is pieces of Orr breaking and sinking with blue light engulfing everything – no depiction of necromancy shown.

So Jacob’s words there are rather called into question, given that he never witnessed the Cataclysm himself.

First two years was gloves and boots.

This year? It’s generic with chooseable stat (as Mad King’s stats used magic find thus now become select your stat) shoulders.

Conncept.7638:

Hamfast.8719:

To be fair, there are some habitually unscrupulous Quaggans that make it their business to intrude where they are not permitted. For them, the afterlife holds a special Hell:

Just ask the Krait, most players don’t seem to realize the Quaggan were in the deeper parts of the ocean than the Krait, the Krait always remained nearer the shore to raid the surface. Which means that when the deep sea dragon attacked and the quaggans ran away, they were basically moving in to and squatting on krait land, er water. The krait are perfectly upstanding citizens just dealing with a bunch of trespassers.

I know you were making a joke, but I’m just gonna chime in on srsbsn here:

Actually, lore explains that the krait were in the deepest parts of the ocean – though they were widespread enough to raid the shore, their main civilization was in the parts where you couldn’t get deeper.

And the DSD was sleeping in the deepest parts of the sea (which sea? Well, not the Sea of Sorrows and the only other sea we know of is the Clashing Sea, or I suppose Janthir Bay but the quaggans fled north-ish).

The quaggans were pushed north by the krait, who were fleeing from further south than them. The quaggan were closer to the surface than the krait.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Oh, lord, now we hear from the Krait Komponent?

Pffft on “upstanding citizens!”

Well, half right. They may be citizens, but no legs means no standing.

You must have never seen their “standing on my tippy-tail” animation. :P

Gaile Gray.6029:

locoman.1974:

These ones (in order):

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mr._Sparkles,_A_Tale_of_the_Asura (this one was released before the game)
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/brahams-story/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/roxs-tale/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/welcome-to-paradise/ (southsun introduction)
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/canachs-story-an-after-hours-meeting/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/marjorys-story-the-last-straw-part-1/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/marjorys-story-the-last-straw-part-2/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/community-news/short-story-the-trek-of-the-zephyrites/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/a-shipwreck-how-ellen-met-magnus/ (Ellen Kiel)
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/short-story-evon-gnashblade-disembarks/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/delegation/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/short-story-what-scarlet-saw/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/short-story-shadowbox/ (SAB)
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/short-story-twilight-preparations/ (before twilight arbour’s new path)
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-family-business/ (halloween backstory)

Nice job, locoman. Thanks for posting that for those who want to read up!

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Tales

A long-standing source for all short stories and other in-universe or lore documents related to GW2. Has more than locoman’s list, including the Letter from Queen Jennah (post Clockwork Madness).

For GW1 stories and lore documents, see:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Category:Stories
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Category:History of Tyria

Why not an ingame library with books with these stories?

It’s been said that their system cannot handle such long texts like that.

I imagine it’d have to be set up similar to the Personal Story summaries. Hopefully when they make Season 1 permanent, they’ll be including the short stories in the Story Journal tab.

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

No Thanks!

Stories should be presenting ingame through cut-scenes and should be experienced through gameplay.

For every short stories they make not ingame, is a miss opportunity to present us new story driven content ingame.

I partially disagree.

The issue is how GW2’s system is set up. Because of a lack of a side-quest system, everything has to fall under three formats:

1. Main storyline
2. Dungeon
3. Open world

They tried going a third route, a non-main storyline instance route, but such instances could only be tied to achievements (or so it seemed) and thus were one-time-accessible per account.

Because of this, anything that would usually be a side story must be put into the main plot.

In the grand scale of the main plot, it would either make no sense or feel like a distraction to delve into the history or the personal lives of the main characters. This is what the short stories served. They were basically GW2’s variation of The Dejarin Estate quest chain from GW1. Side quest content.

Putting it in-game would force it to be either temporary open world content, or makes-no-sense-to-be-permanent open world content, or in the main storyline, given GW2’s current systems.

And that just results in what we got with Season 1 and Season 2’s feeling. Either disconnected and going every which way as each release deals with a different sub-plots (remember how we got 3 months focusing on Kiel rather than the main plot of Scarlet? and then a month on SAB and Tequatl Rising? All side quest stuff, really), or we get a checklist feeling like these unrelated things must be added (go visit Scarlet’s lab, discover things about her, but not overall necessary to advance the plot but it does anyways).

What you want has thus far just led to ArenaNet elongating the storyline to such annoying lengths, because they cannot leave the simple things in other formats – because it ‘has’ to be “part of the gameplay” and “should be presented ingame”.

Does the game’s plot really hinder by Edge of Destiny and Ghosts of Ascalon not being part of the game? No. So there’s no reason these short stories hinder the game either.

Says a Krytan that did not see such a thing personally. Anet’s made it a point that second hand information is fallible.

Lost Souls calls that account into question anyways, by having a corrupt (in the political sense) and powerful necromancer vizier in King Reza’s reign – was it Khilbron? Or someone else. Hard to believe a series of corrupt powerful necromancers capable of creating powerful armies of undead.

Why do I keep denying a connection? Because of the interview I already linked:

Thalador: How much did the Cataclysm affect Zhaitan? (His sleep, his estimated time of awakening, maybe even his life signs.)

Jeff Grubb: Not in the least. Zhaitan is unaffected by such small things as wrinkles in the world’s crust, and in the mere sinking of continents.

http://www.guildmag.com/guildmag-special-zhaitans-secrets/

Jeff Grubb is asked how much affect the Cataclysm had on Zhaitan. He responds with “not in the least”.

Then he goes on to say that Zhaitan is unaffected by “wrinkles in the world’s crust, and in the mere sinking of continents”.

He practically downright states that the Cataclysm’s only affect was the sinking of Orr itself. Hinting that the necromantic effect is not directly part of the Cataclysm.

Perhaps now you understand my stance.

I’m not getting my hopes up, given that by all appearances, we’re going into familiar territory from GW1. Based on the previous preview, we’ll be moving through Fort Vandal this time. That’s Silverwood, which would be big enough for most of a single zone in GW2 (if not the entirety).

It’ll be interesting to see the most lush area of GW1’s Maguuma Jungle short of The Falls and Tangle Root when it’s completely and fully dried out.

I’ve been hesitant to believe Anet’s hype. It may simply be talking about a perspective of common Tyrian knowledge in GW2 – which would include anything within the Maguuma Wastes, really, given that thus far we’ve been told that “no one’s been that far west since Zhaitan’s rise” more or less.

You’re quoting the wiki.

But keep in mind two things:

1. The wiki is written by the fans.
2. The wiki avoids absolutes in situations of interpretations.

Scarlet has never outright been stated to be Soundless, but she has outright been stated to have been disconnected from the Dream. Normally, that’d make her Soundless, except we’re not sure if the Soundless are the one and only means of being disconnected from the Dream, even though the best definition we have for Soundless sylvari are “sylvari disconnected from the Dream.” Per that definition, Scarlet is Soundless, but she may or may not have become Soundless in a different manner than every other Soundless out there.

While the only Soundless we know exist in a single village, and remain disconnected through meditation, this does not mean that they are the only Soundless, nor does it mean that all Soundless act like them. So you stating that “The soundless are a group of very peaceful villagers, who rejected the dream because they found its burden too much to bear, and/or wanted a stronger sense of independence.” is oversimplifying what Soundless means.

Similarly, you stating that “Scarlet wasn’t exactly suffocated, but stubborn to accept it” is false, because the whole “suffocating” thing the Soundless mention is metaphorical – and in a metaphorical sense, one can consider Ceara as having been suffocated by the Dream and the Pale Tree; just different reasons than the villagers we talk to. But again, that feeling of suffocation does not make a Soundless – that’s not a requirement; the requirement is being disconnected from the Dream and, arguably, doing so via meditations.

We don’t have a term for any sylvari disconnected from the Dream in a manner different from the Soundless because, as far as we know, such sylvari do not exist (unless we count Malyck, but he’s never talked about in regards to the Soundless, so it’s possible that the definition of “Soundless” may incorporate him too – and if such were the case, then it would incorporate Ceara).

In short, the wiki is just playing it safe with its wording.

On the other hand, you’re taking a very specific example and saying “this is all a Soundless can be.” Which would be no different than taking FOX News and saying “this is what all Republicans think.”

1. Menzies is never called a god – I’ve always thought him to be akin to Oswald Thorn (who is referred to as a “spirit lord” and, like Menzies, rules over a part of the Mists, has a spiritual army/following, and is very powerful), though it may be that he, like Grenth originally, is half-god or some variation of. It’s debatable, but he’s never called a god and for all we know he’s just a powerful spirit of a millennium old person.
2. Dhuum is not and never was a “lesser” god; he was a full-fledged god but is now a fallen god. Though we aren’t really clear what state his power and godhood is, all indications show that Grenth took the latter, but Dhuum still retains power of some sort.
3. Both Menzies and Dhuum had zero interest in Tyria except to gain power (attack on Tombs of the Primeval Kings, attack on Dragon Festival) for what would lead to Nightfall – and Abaddon’s forces were leading theirs at the time so we can’t really say that the interest was Menzies’ or Dhuum’s as it could have merely been Abaddon’s strategizing and revenge against the other gods (like the Cataclysm, Jade Wind, and Searing).
4. There are only three known “lesser gods” – demigods, as they’re called – for human culture: the Three Queens revered solely by Luxons. Whether they even truly exist is unknown in the first place, let alone if they’re still revered in GW2’s times. No Tyrian – except arguably a Luxon offshoot family – would revere them, chances are. So similarly, whether they’re “still around” is unclear.

Did a quick search. This is relevant.

MatthewMedina.5419:

There is an Orrian Syllabary, actually. Sadly, it was rather challenging to use and to QA test, so we shelved it – but yes there are at least a couple samples in the game. I’m going to inquire about whether I can talk about it more, since I think it unlikely that we’ll ever actually use it for anything outside of sating your curiosity. :-)

Since Matt never responded on the topic again, I guess the inquire he made was answered with a “no.” Sad, truly. I’d love to have more of it.

It’s not very hard to ask for a bleedin’ update on the matter.

By the way, they never once told us it’s a bug, they merely said they’ll look into the matter. Big difference.

Dustfinger, I have read Edge of Destiny. I have it on my desk, and I just re-read the portions you mention. And those that mention true dragons come off as what I have said – talking about Tyria’s dragons, not traditional dragons; in that, shaped like traditional dragons but physically and fundamentally different. Not a species, not a race.

And for the descriptions of muscle and scale, half of it comes off to me as general descriptors, rather than saying “hey, she is flesh and blood” – and the other half is talking about crystals jutting out of her scales (skin) which perfectly matches Branded appearances.

For example, page 337’s description:

“Glint towered over them. Her head was mantled in crystalline spikes, sharper than swords, and her body was a mass of muscle and scale. Each leg was as wide as a millennial oak, and each foot was tipped in razor claws. Most horrible was her wings-stretching from one side of the sanctum to the other”

Half of that is metaphorical – including the “mass of muscle and scale” which is talking not that she has muscles, but that she looks vastly muscular (hence “mass of”), her body being thick and strong looking.

I think you’re taking every single word to be literal.

And to be perfectly honest, Edge of Destiny is not the best source for a perfect description, because it was written by a third party writer. What we see in-game tops what we are told in the book, always. And the novel was written before several things in the game were finalized – hence why the description of Rata Sum, Hoelbrak, and Lion’s Arch don’t match between game and book, as the book uses the original designs (which we can see in the 2009 trailer).

Dustfinger.9510:

The only question about Kralk is is we cover out ears and sing. he is confirmed to have flesh and blood. So we know,at least he isn’t some dragon shaped construction as you claimed.

The book mentions sinew, sure, when describing someone seeing Kralkatorrik move his wings. But there’s two issues with it:

1. That entire chapter is from the viewpoint of an individual not Kralkatorrik – thus it’s an external viewpoint, fallible when talking about the inner workings of something he doesn’t know.
2. A lot of descriptions for something that are not like animal bodies use terms that exist in animal bodies (muscle, heart, skin, stomach, etc.) when talking about what shares the same function. Something that would move Kralkatorrik’s body would be muscle and sinew, in such a case – doesn’t mean they’re flesh. It could mean it, but it doesn’t mandate. It all depends on the writer and the context.

Crude, external viewpoint, descriptions is not really strong footing to stand on when talking about whether something is flesh or element. Edge of Destiny especially since it seemed to receive so little editing given how many lore conflicts and questionables it has.

As for his blood, it is outright stated to be crystal – I wouldn’t call something solid to be “blood”. Though his chest/rib area is said to have scales, his wings are outright stated to be crystal.

Dustfinger.9510:

Kralks green blood sprays.

You know, you can spray glitter and the like about too. To creatures the size of mountains, even fist-sized emeralds would spray when received a large enough gash.

Dustfinger.9510:

yet you sate our intention is to talk about dragons in this thread’s context. The OP mentions his familiarity wit D&D. His question is measured against that familiarity with the D&D universe.

So? D&D is not the sole source of traditional dragons – hell, it isn’t even the main source.

If I meant D&D dragons, I would have bloody well said “D&D dragons” and not “traditional dragons.”

The OP may be familiar with D&D, but that doesn’t mean everyone reading the thread – or even the OP – will consider D&D to be “traditional fantasy”. It’s a staple franchise alright, but so is WoW. What the OP stated his familiarity with is irrelevant in the posts of other people who don’t specify talking about that familiarity.

If I made a post about norn wereforms and mentioned my familiarity with the Twilight series and follow up posts mentioned traditional werewolves, should everyone suddenly thing that “traditional werewolves” is talking about Twilight’s depiction of werewolves? kitten to the no!

So I fail to see why you should presume I refer to Dungeons and Dragons – when I never once mentioned Dungeons and Dragons – when I talk about ‘traditional dragon designs’. Because guess what, dragons don’t originate from Dungeons and Dragons. Big shocker, I know.

But this will end up getting us nowhere. You’re interpreting these words literally, I’m seeing them for metaphors of familiarity’s sake (or the fault of a third-party writer/lore being changed resulting in errors).

I don’t think such has ever been stated, but rather that’s been the situation for this rise (and such a situation has been acknowledged even by devs) until Ceara and Mordremoth’s situation.

Keep in mind that Primordus was originally to wake up around 1078 AE, but his awakening was pushed back 50 years bu the defeat of the Great Destroyer. We have no clue if the other Elder Dragons’ awakenings were pushed back as well – and it seems unlikely they would have. And if they weren’t, then the “actual intent” would have ended up being that Primordus wakes 100 years earlier than Jormag.

And if you play the card of the Great Destroyer trying to do what Ceara succeeded in doing, well we have Drakkar doing the same thing (per Edge of Destiny – Drakkar took magic from the Sons of Svanir to hasten Jormag’s rise). Thus once more, the entire “the time of their awakening is set” falls apart. And it’s possible that either the Maw or the risen Giganticus Lupicus potentially doing the same thing for Zhaitan (the latter confirmed to be from the previous rise, the former having been highly active but unclear if undead shortly before Zhaitan’s rise); and Glint was, by all indications meant to do the same as well – but the Forgotten messed up Kralk’s plans there by giving her free will.

I can see it being a scroll. I can also see it depicting the backside/inside of a metal band of some sort (thus crown could fit if it were one of the fragments).

But the other dungeon items are all things that can be taken off of the body of the main Story mode boss (or fallen off of it, in Faolain’s case). I’m not sure what such would be for this case.

So no clue, in all honesty.

The quote certainly comes from post-Foefire Adelbern, and the name to me hints towards the burden of leadership under such harsh times (falling nation and all that).

I think drax’s point was not “this is something only Jennah can do” but rather “if she can paralyze a mass field of soldiers, she likely has the ability to kill someone too.”

And given that the novel says that said allies she had forgot to breath while paralyzed, that’s very true. If she held the illusion long enough, they would have suffocated.

Though trying to compare Imagined Burden – a single target movement-slowing skill – to what Jennah did (paralyze a field of soldiers, convince hive-mind branded that said paralyzed soldiers were also branded, and create an illusion convincing enough for said branded to think the illusion was real) is very foolhardy. The two are ballparks apart – it’d be like comparing Animate Bone Minions to Vizier Khilbron’s ability to control an entire army of undead.

Too many variables and unknowns.

How much magic did each Dragon consume while awake? Did one consume more than another?

What is the rate of magic leaking from the Dragons? Does it increase if they consumed more magic? Slower if they consumed less?

What happens to magic used in spellcasting? Or if magic is put into artifacts like signets, Krait obelisks, magical weapons (e.g., Scepter of Orr, Magdaer)? Does it decrease the amount of magic, or leave it unaffected in the eyes of the Elder Dragons?

Does some dragons rising before others lessen the other’s chances of rising/slows their rising?

Do they wake because of magic levels directly, or do they just set up a champion to check the levels after 10,000 years and if it is ‘sufficient’ they then rise? Unlikely given that Kralkatorrik rose with his champion working against him.

And that’s just the obvious questions to ask. But with so many variables, it makes it hard to believe the rising is truly constant – especially the time since the previous rise.

laokoko.7403:

And you on the other hand think you are having fun, everyone else must felt the same way, if they didn’t, they just didn’t find it “yet”.

Where did I say I was having fun? I’ve past the point of having fun myself in this game, in all honesty – only friends retain my attention now. ArenaNet has been at an all time low in the past year and a half.

Where did I say anywhere that my post was talking about people having fun?

I am not talking about fun. I am talking about the phrase I’m seeing used repeatedly in the earlier portions of this thread: “I’ve done everything.” or “I’ve done everything except abc.”

And I am pointing out there is so much to do, I cannot believe that they are telling the truth in saying they did everything, or everything except a certain (few) thing(s).

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I had my “lets just go out an explore” phase…. but that nonsense came and went my friend.

-snip-

After I hit r80 in pvp there will be nothing left to do in this game.

I’ve played GW2 for nearly 3,000 hours over nearly 800 days. I have not even come close to doing everything, or so I keep proving to myself when I do go out and keep an eye for details.

So color me suspicious when you or others say “I’ve done it all.”

I don’t disagree that the game needs new content, preferably in the form of an expansion, but that doesn’t mean there’s nothing to do in the game. Maybe finding things isn’t just for you. I never said that you would have fun doing the things that are left in the game, I just said that the chances are very high that there are non-chore things in the game yet to discover.

Labjax.2465:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I don’t despise quaggans, really.

When I first read of them, I thought they’d be a great race. Quaggans have a lot of potential. They’re culturally passive, forced into a time and place that requires fighting for survival, but the reason they’re culturally passive is tied to biological berserking. There was a lot of potential in this.

But all that potential got reduced to a single skill challenge and a single story step which you have a 1 in 2 chance to get it during a specific storyline which in turn is a 3 in 5 chance of being allowed to pick – but within that 3, it’s a 1 in 3 chance of being the storyline you chose.

The reason I hate quaggans is their over use of cuteness. All open world stuff dealing with them is 99.9% protecting the weak and cute blubberballs. They’re overused in the backpacks, and miniatures, are used as cuteness devices during every holiday (Halloween and Four Winds especially). There’s the put-in-pointlessly Bloomaloo and Penelopee. There’s that bloody finisher. The irrelevant tonics from during Escape from/Battle for Lion’s Arch. And then there’s that utterly ridiculous ad that I see everywhere I go online with the baby quaggan going “can you find fishy” (feed the quaggan the fish!).

-__________________-

Then the overuse of them in the community as cutenesses just adds salt to it.

If they weren’t so overused, I wouldn’t have an issue with quaggans. Especially if they weren’t made into Tyria’s punching bag.

Someone needs a Quaggan hug.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/958e6b0fb25a8fdd19378b35334744cc/tumblr_myfu23sjwQ1t5uoywo1_r8_1280.png

TheBlackLeech.9360:

You can also count the grains of sand on the beach.

That doesn’t mean its fun or entertaining or a good way to spend your time.

I think you are mistaking worthwhile/fun content with busy work/chores.

And I think you are mistaking the point of my post. Which was twofold:

1. It is inaccurate to say you’ve done everything. That’s a lot of things, and I find it unlikely. Whether or not you find it fun. If you were instead to say “I’ve done everything I care to do” – that’s not inaccurate, but it also is little different than saying “there’s more I could do, but I don’t want to, and I’m going to complain here that there’s nothing to do even though there is more to do” – even discounting the “chore” things. But what’s a chore for you, isn’t going to be such for others.
2. Just going out into the game and exploring could lead you to finding new things. There is an insane amount of attention to detail in this game, and I’ve seen many, many cases of people – myself included – changing the common angle of the camera and going “woah, was this always here?” or going into a zone they don’t tend to visit and finding new, sometimes interesting, events to do.

A few corrections for you Howk:

1. The Elder Dragons don’t feast on sapient life, but magic. Now, sapient life contains magic (as Oola says “we embody magic”), so sapient life is included, but it is not the lifeforms itself that is the food, but what it contains. If that confuses you, think of it like this: vampires feast on blood, not the person that they drain the blood from.
2. The Six Gods did not seal magic – this was a human myth that has been proven false. The Seers, one of the elder races that survived, sealed the magic (including that of the jotun). If in your comment “remember what happened to the jotun?” you refer to Thruln the Lost’s dialogue in Hoelbrak – it’s not very clear, but he’s giving a false interpretation of the events. Elder Thruln (norn personal storyline “Defeat your Ancient Foes”) as well as Priory scholars throughout Dredgehaunt Cliffs give the actual version of events that was first presented to us players in this lore article by ArenaNet – the short of it is that it was greed and pride that brought them to civil war and thus destroying their own civilization, not their magic being taken from them.
3. The sealing of magic did not seem to make the races vulnerable. The sealing was done before the Elder Dragons fell asleep – so the four (I say four because the mursaat seemed to have survived by fleeing the world) races that were hidden by Glint survived without their magic.
4. The Gods’ leaving actually is given with an explanation – both in-game (aka via NPCs) and out of game (aka via devs). And that explanation is basically: “it’s time for humans to fend for themselves, we gods cannot keep a watchful eye over you all the time.” Why this is so, is unclear, but that’s the explanation given.
5. It’s Kormir, not Kronmir.

It’s Town of Prosperity in the PoI – this may be causing confusion for Dragician, so I’m clarifying just in case.

The way to where you need to go is shown in Episode 2. One of the lovely issues of ArenaNet’s means of releasing this content – people miss out on important early information.

I suggest, when in Dry Top, ask if someone can guide you there, though the path is pretty linear once you find the house in Prosperity (well, except where it splits off into the final section of Dry Top).

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I’m pleased that I’m not the only one who absolutely despises quaggans.

I don’t despise quaggans, really.

When I first read of them, I thought they’d be a great race. Quaggans have a lot of potential. They’re culturally passive, forced into a time and place that requires fighting for survival, but the reason they’re culturally passive is tied to biological berserking. There was a lot of potential in this.

But all that potential got reduced to a single skill challenge and a single story step which you have a 1 in 2 chance to get it during a specific storyline which in turn is a 3 in 5 chance of being allowed to pick – but within that 3, it’s a 1 in 3 chance of being the storyline you chose.

The reason I hate quaggans is their over use of cuteness. All open world stuff dealing with them is 99.9% protecting the weak and cute blubberballs. They’re overused in the backpacks, and miniatures, are used as cuteness devices during every holiday (Halloween and Four Winds especially). There’s the put-in-pointlessly Bloomaloo and Penelopee. There’s that bloody finisher. The irrelevant tonics from during Escape from/Battle for Lion’s Arch. And then there’s that utterly ridiculous ad that I see everywhere I go online with the baby quaggan going “can you find fishy” (feed the quaggan the fish!).

-__________________-

Then the overuse of them in the community as cutenesses just adds salt to it.

If they weren’t so overused, I wouldn’t have an issue with quaggans. Especially if they weren’t made into Tyria’s punching bag.

As I understand this thread, turning the entire thing into a “TL;DR” single sentence:

“What happened to ‘when it’s ready’?”

Varrg.2704:

there’s absolutely nothing wrong with killing quaggans. Actually, the lack of “kill 1000 quaggans” achievement is the real crime here.

This. This this this.

I highly doubt anyone’s done everything in this game.

Sure, you could have gotten all of the non-PvP/WvW achievements by now, and a good amount of the PvP/WvW achievements too. But to claim you’ve done everything would mean you’ve done:

• Every single event there is.
• Every single personal story combination that alters dialogue/gameplay (approximately 15 full playthroughs)
• Collected all miniatures
• Collected all weapon/armor skins
• Did all achievements – including maxing daily/monthly AP caps and the new collector achievements
• Talked to all NPCs as each race and order (sometimes a combination of such) to see each dialogue

Even if you discount the whole dialogue thing, to claim you’ve done every event is unlikely due to how the system for them is. I still go through zones and occasionally find events I’ve never seen before, because certain previous events had failed/completed that were either the opposite previously, or were bugged when I last went through the area.

As for why I still play the game: friends, really. Though my gametime has greatly reduced in the past month. I’m hoping that the continuation of Season 2 can bring my interest back.

@OP: We don’t know. It didn’t return in 2013, but they introduced the wardrobe and there’s a good amount of people who either accidentally deleted it, or never got it on a character they wanted it on and thus deleted it (like I did) for inventory space (because they’re not the best stats, y’know).

So it would make sense for them to bring it back.

But in all honesty, I am doubtful they will. But I am hoping they do. That was a fun scavenger hunt, and I would love more like that.

There was a forum post some time ago that there was originally to be a translatable Orrian alphabet, but they were running short on development time and had a lack of subjects to put it on – thus there’s only one model it exists on (an obelisk seen in Sparkfly Fen, Temple of Abaddon, and Arah story).

The use of New Krytan instead is most likely just so that there’s something legible in Orr. Or it is indeed an oversight.

Now, what is a bug/oversight is seen here – Malchor apparently wrote in Old Krytan, rather than Orrian, and more importantly: our characters can easily read it, despite Old Krytan being highly hard to decipher even when it was commonly used (hence the change to New Krytan).

An Empire Divided states that Shiro delved into forbidden magic before the Harvest Ceremony, which while An Empire Divided may not outright coincide with the flashback cinematics of Factions, the descriptions of An Empire Divided does match the descriptions of the Imperial Guard ghosts in Gate of Fear/Domain of Fear.

Which is an important point to consider: there were some killed by Shiro in his first life that were sent to the Realm of Torment.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Imperial_Captain_Shi_Wang
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/A_History_of_Violence

“During preparations for the harvest ceremony he was on edge, talking about a fortune-teller and a choice he must make. He made no sense at all, and the whole thing still doesn’t.”

“For the briefest of moments, Shiro’s gaze locked with Vizu’s, and her heart turned to ice. Behind his eyes she saw the death of the empire.”

“Abaddon, lord of this realm, sent a minion of his evil to entice Shiro’s dark side. Disguised as a simple fortune-teller, this avatar corrupted Shiro thoroughly and used his own black thoughts against him.”

“But somewhere along the way, dark forces corrupted Shiro Tagachi, forces that he sought out against the laws of his empire and his gods. He learned the ways of forbidden sorcery and engaged in studies and rituals well beyond the disciplines of the Assassin. He found that these taboo powers were second nature to him, and the darkest forms of magic were the easiest of all.”

I’m more willing to write off the bit of Vizu and Shiro in the Underworld as either a misunderstanding (mistaking the Realm of Torment for the Underworld) by the author (Loremaster Ermenred), or simply because it hadn’t been thought up yet by devs.

As for the Orrians who knew of Abaddon – it may be that they only knew of Abaddon post-mortem, as it seems that the Imperial Guards did.

There’s a rough guestimation possible with Ceara’s timeline, but the entire thing is highly confusing. She was born in 1302 and had spent: 8 years in the grove, 1 winter with Biegarth, 2 years with the charr gladium who’s name I can never remember, 3 years with the colleges (1 each, roughly), unknown time with Inquest, and “several months” with hylek before Omadd found her again. She turned 16 before landing an assistant position with Omadd, which would more likely be the beginning of her college years, placing her to be at least 19, likely 20, when she was approached by Omadd in Metrica – so likely at that time when she entered the machine. Roughly 1322 AE.

Dustfinger.9510:

When a dragon is referred to as a “true dragon” indicating that they are separate from other dragon type beings, I think we can refer to them as a race. But again, you may be right. You would however need to define what a dragon is. So far you’ve just given some qualities of the ED’s and say not those. Then go on to say “traditional” fantasy dragons. But ED’s greatly resemble traditional fantasy dragons. What is it about your idea of what a traditional fantasy dragon is that disqualifies them?

When I say traditional fantasy, I do not mean D&D and Warhammer – things I know nothing of. I mean things like Lord of the Wings, Dragonheart, the original Norse myths that almost all fantasy dragons derive from. And in those, they’re just fire-breathing (sometimes ice or lightning), flying, quadpedal reptiles.

Something that is just D&D and Warhammer is not “traditional fantasy” – it’s D&D and Warhammer. Lord of the Rings is something far more traditional in the fantasy world than D&D is.

Dustfinger.9510:

The ED’s and the other confirmed dragon Glint are all living, breathing, flesh and blood creatures.

Glint is not flesh and blood, despite your continuous claims. Why? Because she’s a dragon minion, and the only dragon minion that have flesh and blood are risen (and Mordrem, if you include plants amongst the flesh and blood).

Dustfinger.9510:

I wouldn’t call the ED’s a species in and of themselves.

Funny you say this, because:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

When I say “a race of dragons” – I mean an entire species that are dragons

But yet:

Dustfinger.9510:

When a dragon is referred to as a “true dragon” indicating that they are separate from other dragon type beings, I think we can refer to them as a race. But again, you may be right. You would however need to define what a dragon is. So far you’ve just given some qualities of the ED’s and say not those.

My qualities I give are “a species”. Yet you say you agree that the Elder Dragons are not a species. Yet you also say that they’re a race, and that all qualities I give for what makes a dragon, the Elder Dragons have.

You’re being contradictory.

Dustfinger.9510:

Right. She is crysatlline on the outside but flesh and blood inside just like the ED’s are on the inside. D&D has brass, bronze, copper, gold, and silver dragons. All falling under the “true dragon” category.

Given her appearance and the fact she’s a dragon minion, it’s more likely that it’s the opposite.

If you look at the Branded, you can see that their insides are crystal, but they still have skin (grayed though it may be). If one looks at concept art for branded, then the only thing that were not changed was skin and bone – muscle, blood, sinew all changed to cyrstal, and hair disappeared (fell out, most likely).

In GW1, and in the concept art used in Sorrow’s Embrace, Glint has scales (skin), with crystals jutting out.

Dustfinger.9510:

The ED’s resemble the most powerful and ancient dragons of other fantasy genres including Warhammer and D&D. that seems pretty traditional. Glint is flesh and blood with crystalline scales. D&D had jeweled dragons.

Fun fact: ArenaNet has, on a multitude of occasions, stated that they want their lore to deviate from “traditional fantasy” – so I would not use such to compare to GW lore. They used this as their explanation for turning dwarves to stone, and in their earliest explanations of the Elder Dragons.

I, myself, have to admit I never played Warhammer or D&D, so I cannot compare between the two.

Dustfinger.9510:

They have flesh and blood so they aren’t just a construct in the shape of a dragon. And they are referred to as “true dragons”.

Yet when we see it, an Elder Dragon’s blood is crystal (Kralkatorrik) and ice (Jormag), or green goo-like substance (Zhaitan). So can we really be sure that they bleed blood?

We know Kralkatorrik and Mordremoth have scales (Mordremoth at least does in the one appropriate concept art), but that’s really all we have aside from Zhaitan’s body. Which is of… questionable state – he either looks undead, or is undead.

I originally thought the former, but the more I look at the animations when his tails are cut, or when his arm falls off, it looks more like he’s a rotten corpse that’s tied together only by magic – magic which is disrupted by those electric-like hooks that caused his arm that wasn’t even struck to just stretch and fall off like a zombie from The Walking Dead.

And if Zhaitan really is undead… maybe Jormag really is ice? Maybe the reason why Kralkatorrik is “more magical than physical” is because he’s more akin to an elemental that’s shaped like a dragon, than a dragon with elemental properties.

You speak with such asboluteness about the Elder Dragons’ bodies… but what proof do we have about them? We have nothing on Jormag or the DSD, so little on Mordremoth and Primordus, and a questionable amount on Kralkatorrik.

Dustfinger.9510:

Or they may be the most powerful of the dragon species. Seperating them from other confirmed dragons like Glint could be akin to seperating dire wolves from wolves. The gods may well be a species along with the Spirits of the Wild. Or the gods and Spirits of the wild may be more similar than different as the norn believe.

Maybe. Maybe not.

It’s a nice conjecture – one I don’t disagree with – but that’s all it is. Hence it remains that we have no definitive proof of a dragon race.

Dustfinger.9510:

And ED’s are confirmed to already have flesh and blood and scales.

Where.

Kralkatorrik’s “blood” is CRYSTALS for crying out loud. Jormag’s “blood” is ICE. That is not flesh and blood.

But I do not recall any mention of Glint or Kralkatorrik or Primordus or Jormag having muscles and sinew and bone and whatever else makes up a reptilian body. We have scales, we have claws, but all else we have is elements.

While it’s fully debatable for Garfaaz’s state of living, Scorch Emberspire states:

“My soul longs to bask in the flames of the lands we called home.”

“Always toward Arah, where the gods once lived. All that awaited us there was death. What sort of god would lead its people to destruction?”

That bold gives a heavy indication of Scorch being dead, having witnessed (and thus died in) the Cataclysm, the lack of transparency in his body more likely due to a lack of spirit charr models at the time. I would hold no doubt that if they were to go through and retrospectively improve NPCs, they’d switch his model with the made for the BMP Nightmare Charr.

I find the fact that souls like Vialee were sent to the Realm of Torment interesting. What little we have points to him going there due to the Cataclysm – but if so, why wasn’t those who died in the Jade Wind (Shiro is said to have wondered the Underworld for 200 years before accepting the call of being an Envoy; Visu is said to have had her soul pulled from the Underworld shortly after her body was found, as well) or those in the Searing (there are both victims of the Searing remaining as ghosts in Ascalon, and we see some in the Underworld).

Oddly, only those who died in the Cataclysm and from the effects of Nightfall seem to have been sent to the Realm of Torment.

Thalador.4218:

Probably the big release of the Bloodstone’s contents before the Exodus and the constant leaking of the separated pieces after the volcano had spewed them out did facilitate their awakening.

Of this I have no doubt.

Which is why I highly detest the claim of Varra Skylark in Arah Jotun path, where she claims that the Elder Dragons’ awakening happens every 10,000 years, alongside the birth of a star that happens every 10,000 years. Why, specifically, does this make no sense?

In the previous dragonrise, the Elder Dragons fell to sleep before they could consume all magic – and thus fell to sleep early. If the Bloodstone was left alone, they no doubt would have kept hibernating for a much longer time, because there would still not be enough food to dictate their rise. If they were to rise, it would be an incredibly short time of being awake. But the Bloodstone was tampered with, and large quantities of magic were put forth into the world – this in turn sped up the time of awakening.

So this slowing and then hastening of the levels of magic in the world just happened to be the exact same length as the time between each Elder Dragon rising?

That’s just very hard to swallow. Unless the lore provided in interviews by Angel McCoy, namely lines such as:

“When the dragons have consumed enough and thus reduced the world to a low level of magic, they go back to sleep. From then on, the magic leaks from them, back into the world at a reasonable rate. Eventually, it builds up in the world again, and the dragons awaken again to tip the teeter-totter back in the other direction.”

This is just one of many recent developer posts that indicate that the Elder Dragons’ wakening cycles is dictated by the level of magic in the world, rather than a specific amount of time passing like the Reapers from the Mass Effect series arriving every 50,000 years irregardless (makes me wonder if there were ever any times in which the Reapers showed up to find no significantly advanced civilizations).

As such, if the dragonrises are dictated by level of magic, then that is one hell of a coincidence for the time between this and the previous dragonrise to be the exact same as between the previous two dragonrises. It is just as hard to believe as the jotun existing for ~30,000 years if not more.

Thalador.4218:

Addendum: as to why they built their city atop an Elder Dragon and why they had the human kingdom that they intended to lead all the others settle down there, I reckon the answer is simple: Arah and Orr were the last stand for the elder races. It was somehow protected from dragon attacks. When Glint made all the survivors disappear — regardless of how she did — Zhaitan insidiously moved in and fell asleep there. By the time they returned, they had no idea that an Elder Dragon was onto them and they got away in the nick of time. The gods and humans arrived, and the latter decided that humanity’s bastion should be built atop the safe haven that resisted the Elder Dragons’ influence throughout an entire cycle.

An interesting hypothesis. There are indeed indications that Arah existed before the Six Gods arrived on the world: the existence of the Altar of Glaust, and the Orrian History Scrolls mentioning “stones of Arah” for when Dwayna first stepped foot from the Mists. One would not have to go far to turn Arah into a city made by the Forgotten, and only a bit further to turn it into a “last bastion of the elder races”.

Though I suspect the last bastion was the Eye of the North. Seems to have been overlooked by Jormag, and seemed to have been a place to spy on the Elder Dragons’ champions (EotN visions), though the latter may have been merely that the PC was focused on that threat.

Zaklex.6308:

No, that’s not entirely true, the Elder Dragons were destined to wake sooner or later, their prior awakenings have been mentioned via ‘stories’ from the ancient races, Jotun, etc., but most modern people assumed them to be just that, stories and not based on fact…something they are finding out just how wrong they were. So in essence the Elder Dragons would have awoken one way or another, it was inevitable.

The existence of stories of past awakenings does not mandate the existence of future awakenings.

Angel McCoy had an interview and had forum posts in which she stated that the Elder Dragons rise based on the level of ambient magic in the world. If the level of ambient magic in the world never hits that point where the Elder Dragons wake up, then naturally, it is possible that they would never wake. Hence my previous use of “potentially” – as in, possibly, maybe, a chance of occurring – not definitive or absolute.

Similarly, if magic were to enter the world at a rate equal or greater to the Elder Dragons’ consumption, it is possible that they will never fall asleep naturally.

Squee.7829:

I’m also inclined to believe the Gods had absolutely no reason at all to think that the dragons would not wake up again eventually.

-snip-

I never said that the gods had no reason to think the dragons would not wake up, I said it may be possible to prevent the Elder Dragons from ever waking up by keeping the level of magic in the world low.

The rest of your post actually gives a mentality that the gods indeed did not think the Elder Dragons would rise again – perhaps they thought the beasts dead, rather than hibernating, or they put in countermeasures that simply never activated (perhaps due to the Cataclysm, Searing, Jade Wind, and/or Nightfall). Or maybe the sylvari are those countermeasures.

Or they did think the Elder Dragons would, eventually, wake, and they simply forgot to mention it.

Thalador.4218:

Since Konig has a fondness of presenting only his views on a particular topic, I’ll leave these links here:

-snip-

While in my posts I only stated my view, I, in fact, posted the original interview of Jeff Grubb talking of the Cataclysm’s effect on Zhaitan so that people could form their own opinion.

Similarly, I posted the second thread you linked, stating:

“The notion of body preservation and land corruption post-Cataclysm was discussed a bit in this thread not too long ago.”

So there, I never even brought up my stance on that topic – I merely stated it was discussed before, and linked the thread (the very one you linked).

I doubt it was intentional, but this part of your post sounded very condescending to me, and it was insulting given that I gave every opportunity for others to form their own opinions by citing the source, or providing older discussions in which multiple viewpoints were given.

And is it not commonplace for people to post only their side of the topic in a discussion? Very few people – not even you, truthfully – give anothers’ side of the argument unless they are intentionally playing devil’s advocate (and very few people do even that in the lore forum).

Thalador.4218:

And I wholeheartedly agree with Squee’s assessment. This “And why should they? They are gods, and humans are mortals.” is as much a terrible argument as a horrifying attitude from a group responsible for the welfare of an entire species — who incidentally made quite the attempts to sustain and protect their chosen.

My point in that was more of “the gods will not tell humanity everything, so maybe this was one topic that the gods just never thought ‘hey, we should tell them about this’.” Pure conjecture, in other words.

Aro.8275:

Themselves no. Underwater denizens, yes.
Are Risen skeletons a thing?

You make it sound like not a single corpse was disturbed, in an entire nation of corpses and their graveyards (remember, even ancient kings and princes were turned risen – who’s to say more commoner corpses were not corrupted too?).

And no, there isn’t a single skeletal risen, interestingly. The closest there is to that would be Risen Wraiths, which appear as a twisted skeletal upper body (or just skull + forearms) tied together with ether.

Squee.7829:

But I do find it strange that Abaddon, or subsequently Kormir, was silent about the Elder Dragons. I would only be a little surprised if the other Gods completely failed to research the planet they settled and simply didn’t know that ultra-powerful deathbringers were sleeping just underfoot.

" Ancient documents, found now in the Durmand Priory’s collection, reveal accounts passed down by other races such as the powerful Seers and even the human gods themselves. "

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prosperity%27s_Mystery

We have recent indication that the Six Gods did, in fact, know of the Elder Dragons.

They just didn’t tell humanity.

They didn’t tell humanity a lot. And why should they? They are gods, and humans are mortals.

Squee.7829:

And from what I gather, Abaddon might not have been that bad of a guy before the whole rebellion thing and being imprisoned. He was willing to give magic to the people, but not a little forewarning about an enormous extinction event? What reason did he (she/they) have for keeping it hidden? That just seems rude.

Maybe giving magic to the races was his hope to help counter the Elder Dragons, as giving magic to the world would mean giving the Forgotten’s magic too. It would also give the races of the world an experience with magic, so it wouldn’t be entirely foreign when the Elder Dragons wake.

Then again, the Elder Dragons wake up due to high levels of magic in the world. So the gods’ actions (as we’ve learned it wasn’t just Abaddon; he just gave the final and biggest amount of magic) inevitably sped up the otherwise potentially eternal hibernation of the Elder Dragons.

Glint is outright stated to be crystalline, as well, however.

Warden Illyra: Glint remained in crystalline form, but she regained her free will and identity.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ruined_City_of_Arah_%28explorable%29#Forgotten

Regarding Kralkatorrik – and the other Elder Dragons – their state of being is questionable as their existence is, thus far, fully unique.

As for “a definition”. Well, not eldritch abominations that the Elder Dragons are continuously described as being. Not ancient unknowable beings of ultimate destruction and consumption. But something more akin to how they are in traditional fantasy settings – not exactly, but close. If the Bone Dragons were not undead, then that. If Glint was not crystalline, and had a race that she was part of, then that.

When I say “a race of dragons” – I mean an entire species that are dragons – and not crystal/plant/ice/fire/stone/lightning/water/whatever-else-there-may-be constructs created in the shape of a dragon.

The Elder Dragons are, thus far, just six. This is not a species. It would be akin to saying that the gods are a race. We do not know their origins either – they could be unique creations, constructs in their own right, for all we know. Or, they may be the last and strongest survivors of the dragon race.

As you said, the Elder Dragons are described as “more magical than physical” – which indicates that they may never have been actually scale and blood. Nothing indicates that they were ever “more physical than magical” as you are hypothesizing by relating them to a specific genre of fantasy dragons (not all such fantasy dragons have dragons becoming more elemental as they become older).

There exists too many unknowns, but the Elder Dragons alone we cannot call a race of dragons. Their champions, dragon shape or not, we also cannot call a race of dragons – at best, they are the corrupted remains of a race of dragons (what Glint is hinted to be).

I was saying that that, as a race of non-corrupted/corrupting beings that reproduces naturally and potentially had civilization (be it primitive or advanced), we have no cold hard evidence of such existing. E.g., there are no traditional dragons confirmed. There is implications of it, but nothing certain. This, of course, is excluding the Canthan dragons for sake of argument as I refer to a race of European-styled dragons, and not turtle dragons or the serpentine Saltspray Dragons. Said implications come from three sources: Bone Dragons, Glint’s history (dialogue indicates that she was once a non-corrupted being), and Glint’s offspring (dragon minions cannot reproduce unless pregnant when corrupted going off of all known lore; dragon champions however are capable of creating dragon minion constructs, even minions that would be champions; it is unclear which situation lies with Glint and her children but if the former that would imply that there was a reproducing race of European-styled dragons).

However, there are entities referred to as “dragons” and that would be creatures of a particular shape – the shape one would connect to traditional European dragons. This includes the Elder Dragons and certain champions such as Glint, Tequatl the Sunless, Claw of Jormag, Shadow of the Dragon, The Shatterer, etc.

My point in the last two posts is that when using the phrase “true dragon,” EoD seems to be (ergo, my interpretation) referring to the latter situation (creatures that have the (rough) shape of traditional european dragons) rather than the former (creatures that are an actual race).

Throughout all of GW2, when the term “dragon” is used, it is used in reference to Elder Dragons and their dragon-shaped champions (Glint, Claw of Jormag, etc.), and never as an actual race – at least, such is never specified or made in any way clear that it is being used in a means other than “Elder Dragons and their dragon-shaped champions”.

When I said “actual dragons,” I was referring to the former: a race of flying reptiles that are called dragons, excluding the Saltspray Dragons and other Canthan potential-but-named-“dragons”.

TL;DR
Yes, I was indeed saying that – based on all concrete lore we have – the creatures referred to as dragons are, indeed, not living, breathing, dragons. Most cases we see of such, they are constructs of ice, plant, stone, lighting, fire, and/or undead flesh. Though Glint and Zhaitan’s dragons and possibly even the Elder Dragons may have been one once, we don’t have definitive proof of that – the line from EoD can be taken two ways still.

There’s nothing saying that they don’t exist, but nothing points definitively that they do.

I will close with this:

It is of my personal theory that there was a race of dragons – flesh and blood – that Glint, Bone Dragons, and perhaps more stem from. Whether the Elder Dragons also stem from them, I theorize it could go either way, but would certainly hold no doubt to it being such.

And that’s the entire point that I’m making.

No matter what, the syncing of the calendar doesn’t work. There’ll be errors. Unless ArenaNet starts putting Wintersday in the middle of March (which, y’know, wouldn’t be all that terrible of a thing all things considered, but you just know it won’t be done because it’s the players’ christmas). The entire concept of the Living World happening in real time just doesn’t work, and that’s the entire point I’m making.

Go one way, or go the other, you have issues nonetheless.

However, I’ll note that the purpose of adding the five days was not to have the two calendars match to the day, but instead to have the lengths match so that the real-time syncing can occur. It’s a kitten attempt at something that is pretty clearly didn’t get a lot of thought put into.

The only real solution is to drop the entire syncing act.

I would argue it does indeed count to appearance, since the term “dragon champion” had been used throughout the book but describes non-dragons.

By what I see, it’s basically saying that Glint is a “true dragon,” in that she’s a dragon unlike the four previous champions that were all called “dragon champions,” but she’s a lesser dragon than the Elder Dragons.

In Factions, we see souls asking Shiro if he’s there to take them to Eternal Paradise, not the Underworld, indicating that not all souls go to the Underworld. And throughout GW1, it was established that most souls only go to the Underworld to be judged – and said judgment determines their true resting place.

From what the quests in the Underworld in GW1 pointed out, only the souls of Grenth’s faithful (Icy Wastes and Forgotten Vale) and those without valor or honor (Chaos Plains) remain there after being judged – in regards to what we see of the place, that is. The souls we see at the beginning – including those who had died in the Searing, some without realizing – had yet to be judged, from what I recall, and this was due to the Reapers’ imprisonments.

nexxe.7081:

It’s funny seeing people trying to rationalize this.

Their argument falls flat though, when Asura and Charr are clearly representing humans from the real world.

I see these same arguments from Tera fans when discussing Elin. “Their not kids! They are hundreds of years old!” ….riight.

Last time I checked, however, Tera’s case aren’t fur-covered bipedal cats or… whatever you’d compare asura to. They actually look like kids in Tera.

That’s a fine difference.

In gw1, a lot of the Orrian undead had feathered wing motifs. In gw2, King Doric’s memorial is nearby the temple of Dwayna and lies beneath the Plaza of Lights (another name for the Cathedral of Zephyr is Cathedral of Lights).

Dwayna, being associated not only with the first king of the human kingdoms but also with light, and a lot of Orr being tied to light and feathered wings, has led me to think the phrase – especially considering “when shadows flee” for the first one – points more to the notion not of the soul going to Grenth’s domain, but instead to Dwayna’s.

This goes more for Tirzah, given the line “those she loved” – Dwayna being known for compassion and kindness.

Rognik.2579:

As for the asura, I associate them as a goblinoid race. I haven’t done extensive research into this field of fantasy, but I don’t ever really seeing them classified as mammalian. It’s not discussed in the game, but I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if there is an asura hatchery somewhere in Rata Sum where asuran children are left until they are hatched and then sent to school. It could also explain why there never seems to be a parent-child bond between asura and progeny as we see in human or even norn culture.

“Hatchery” implies eggs. There was once a fan-fict that portrayed asura as egg-layers, and this got a freaked-out response from Ree Soesbee, who confirmed that:

1) they are mammals
2) they don’t lay eggs

Unfortunately, due to a server move after this post, said post was “archived” and in turn lost.

Edit: seems there was another source for this that I didn’t know of, as provided by Conncept.

You’re just not reading my posts, are you? That, or your completely overlooking my point.

Trying to explain it any further will just result in repetition. Please just re-read my posts and fully.

I’ll just say one final thing on the topic of the seasons:

By syncing the calendars, you sync the equinoxes and solstices. Zephyr 01 = first day of spring. The issue of the calendars is not just “where do the new five days lie” but also “the seasons do not fall in line with the holidays”.

Placing Zephyr 01 as January 01 puts a confirmed autumn holiday (Halloween) in winter by full accordance of “when we experience it” and “using the synced calendar”.

Odyssey.2613:

No, the Kormir video is not beyond inaccurate. It has very valid points. I don’t need to write a dissertation on Trahearne and Kormir because the flaws are pretty blatantly effin obvious. To do so is a waste of time. Lore. Mechanical. It doesn’t matter. Arguing over semantics. In the end it is what it is.

You really need to replay Nightfall, then, if you think that video is “not beyond inaccurate”. It is, it really, really is.

It intentionally paints Kormir as a moron and an idiot. For example, the video at 0:45 in depicts the attack at Gandara, the ‘PC’ of the video goes “this is obviously a trap” and Kormir rushes in blindly.

In game, what was the dialogue?

Dunkoro: “This is a trap, Kormir.”
Kormir: “I know, Dunkoro. I know.”
Dunkoro: “Then why push forward?”
Kormir: “We must take the brunt of Varesh’s dark magic.”
Kormir: “We must be the ones to protect Elona.”

Kormir knew it was a trap. She knew the chances of success weren’t the best. But she did it anyways because she knew that if she didn’t the rest of Elona would be in danger regardless.

But despite knowing it was a trap, and despite knowing she had to go in to take down Varesh, she still waited:

Kormir: “Good to see you, Captain. Varesh has holed up here with her followers.”
Kormir: “Now that you’re here, we can make the assault!”
Kormir: “Sunspears! At the ready! Spare those who surrender! Now, in the name of the Five Gods, forward!”

She waited for all her troops to be ready for encountering that trap. She didn’t know what Varesh had planned, but she didn’t just rush in either.

That’s just one example where Kormir’s made to be the complete opposite of how she actually was depicted in-game.

Another point is the very beginning, where the video shows her poking that Abaddon statue with a stick – her explanation of her uncovering the Apocrypha that started it all?

Kormir: “Tales of the forbidden ruins are part of our history. My curiosity and concern made me ignore those warnings.”

She wasn’t idiotically and willy-nilly poking kitten and got in trouble then pretended nothing happened. She knowingly explored forbidden ruins because she both wanted to know why they were forbidden, and what danger they held. And she owned up to it – when trouble came, she went into the ruins to clean up her mess – we just happened to join her. And this was the reason why she felt the duty to take the brunt of Varesh’s trap – that inevitably backfired.

Another major difference is the act of Kormir’s Ascension. The video depicts becoming a god as a reward and that Kormir stole it – the typical player mentality. But what people fail to realize is that godhood was a punishment because that meant continuous restrain on oneself, having to contain the will and power of Abaddon within oneself (aka a continuous battle of will – though Kormir said Abaddon’s will is broken… will it remain such forever?), and having to leave all she had known and loved (Tyria, friends, family, the Sunspears, everything). In Tyria, godhood is time and time again made out to be more of a punishment than a blessing – not just in Nightfall, but even in GW2. The gods are forever alone, no matter how much they want to be with humanity, because their powers are just too dangerous.

If it weren’t so, then Dwayna would not have wept when she had to leave Malchor. Lyssa would not have wept when she had to leave Wren for Arah.

Perhaps people would understand this a bit more if the phrase was not “a choice only a mortal can make” but instead “a sacrifice only a mortal can make.”

What happens when the gods become involved? Wars that bring humanity to the brink of extinction. Seas get turned into deserts. Nightfall.

The video portrays Kormir as a complete kittened kitten that doesn’t own up to her duties. The game portrays Kormir as a Greek tragedy of sorts – a figure who tries to do good, fails, tries to make up for those failures, and is still punished in the end.

The video takes the typical player view – your view, obviously, included – that overlooks all these facts. It is not an appropriate depiction.