I would like to see LoS skills like ‘steal’ function properly up walls and such. There are skills that pull enemies down walls, and this is possibly /the/ one skill that should allow you to hop up a wall.
The alternative is ranged combat, usually with shortbow, which requires you to stand at the foot of the wall and be pelted to death while you throw out poison fields..
If steal, or any form of teleport let you shadowstep up walls…it would utterly break WvW sieges.
Throw Gunk looks like crap. Then you realize it’s a combo field.
It’s my favourite because I get to sit inside a pretty little pink/purple bubble…like a princess!
We are looking into this. I actually think P/P has a lot of utility. Blind field, daze, vuln stacking. However damage is a bit low. We are making some headway here in the12/14 build so be patient for one more week.
Jon
Let me be the first to say…thank you!
I am quite intrigued to see the changes, and I can’t wait to play the game after my exams end on the 12th. Just one more thing to look forward to next week.
Even if this group of 7, was entirely lv 30, which is not at all likely. They should have been more than enough to take out a single lv 80 player. Let alone with an experienced lv 80 helping them. Some were in a guild. A guild who WvW together is not likely a bunch of lv 30s who have never done WvW before, and they had more members around the map as well, it’s a pretty big guild on our server.
There were people who started and though the thief died and they left while more came in to try to kill the thief when they saw him surrounded by our group. Is it likely that none of those people were better than totally useless?
Something I just remembered. We had him downed for a moment but then he popped back up and had no problems continuing the fight for quite a while. There was definitely no time to heal, and the only other way I know of to get back up is to kill something while downed. Is this a thief down skill?
This is sounding funnier and more like a fictional story now.
Generalization in what way? Do you understand the meaning of the word “some?” It has a different meaning than the word “all.”
Stealth in GW2 works nothing like any other stealth I’ve seen.
Just because he alt+f4s doesn’t justify why he plays thief. I’ve had guardians alt+f4 on my ele. Yea…explain that. Must be cause he doesn’t like dying. He should have rolled a thief instead of a guardian by your logic.
I agree 8 people should be enough to down him, but it wasn’t.
And he did down someone briefly. I couldn’t even believe it.
I was using staff attacks. Meteor shower, the #2 smaller aoe, the fire roll backwards, the air stun field, the earth cripple field and the rock explosion one. You can assume that I wasn’t placing them just anywhere. I was trying to surround so anywhere he went he’d get hit by something.
It could be culling, but he was around for 1-2 seconds after appearing, and given reaction time, skill channeling, and his dodge, there wasn’t much that could hit him.
Considering that there are 8 of us, of varying skill. The 2 best of a random group of 8 should be able to take down a good single player. With 6 more to help, there should be no contest. This must have been the best thief in all of GW2.
…or just some really bad/underleveled players!
Oh my god, every time I see you left a reply, I actually sigh IRL.
Everyone else here sees you for your colors, so I’m outta here. Get your last word, I don’t care.
But yeah, go ahead and “expose my assumptions” if you want.
Are you a victim of panic attacks? Too much sighing is a good sign of it. I’d recommend you consult your health professional.
I don’t see how any thief can sit here and argue that Steal is a bad class only skill… it gives you access to some of the best skills in the game (hello Whirling Axe and Consume Plasma). Of course I am talking pvp here. You can’t just sit here and be all “oh well it’s basically just a shadowstep!!!!111” because it isn’t. Depending on the situation, it gives you some pretty overpowered options to choose from for that class skill. Likewise it allows you to use 2 stolen skills by saving one from a previous fight.
Now what I won’t argue about is the fact that the thief class itself is just relatively boring. The steal mechanic itself is BORING. It really feels like they didn’t know what to do for f1 skills for the class (outside of the initiative system) so they just threw something in. And honestly, the whole thief class design as a whole is a bit lacking.
Throw Gunk is my favourite!
Assumption =/= Opinion…
Assumption =/= Actual statistic…
Assumption =/= Data I can prove by quoting the very source you’re trying to defend (yourself):
Oh, thieves get all the bonuses for steal from the very first tier trait in deadly arts? Good to know!
When you use this as an argument AGAINST the statement that Steal is great just by getting one or two of its many modifications, then no, I am not making any assumptions.
So, in summary… You need to look up the definition of “assumption”.
Do I really need to break the quotes down even further to bring your assumptions into light?
Do I need to type “/end sarcasm” after every sarcastic statement I make for you? This won’t be happening…if you couldn’t already figure that one out!
Please, do tell me that English is not your first language!!!!
Edit: While you’re at it, look up what “at best” means, if you really don’t know what’s wrong with calling an untraited Steal “at best”.
I do believe it’s you who needs to “look up what at best means”…and understand the context it’s used in…before you continue trying to argue with me. Thanks!
(edited by Kurow.6973)
Blah blah blah, words. What are you even talking about? Do you know what the definition of an assumption is? Because nothing I said at any point in time was one of those.
Is that so?
…the BEST addition to the Steal ability is Mug.
Assumption!
…most Thieves use Mug as Steal’s only modifier, because it’s all you need.
Assumption!
…you fail to see this, because you want to be able to throw on all of its modifications into a single, optimal build to rule them all.
Assumption!
Also, simply everything you say is biased and misleading. Here’s just one of your clown statements:
At best, it’s a free shadowstep every 45s (what a laughable class defining skill) untraited.
How is an untraited Steal “at best”?
You have to be a troll. Or just not smart enough where debating with you is worth it.
Going to assume English is not your first language, and leave it at that.
PS: Do try hitting the “Edit” button once in a while. I’m sure you’ll be impressed at what it can do.
(edited by Kurow.6973)
Just because you threw down AoEs, doesn’t guarantee you the kill. You have to be smart with your casts. I can throw down random AoEs too and not manage to kill anyone (stealth or not wouldn’t matter).
For D/D, Ring of Earth, Magnetic Grasp, Earthquake, Updraft, Frozen Burst are just some examples of on-que skills that can force a thief to waste their stealth, while keeping them in relatively close proximity to your position.
Some people play thieves because they don’t like dying. This guy falls in that category since he admits to ALT-F4ing.
I played rogues in vanilla beta and infiltrator in DAoC. I know how big an advantage stealth provides when soloing in the open field.
Let’s play a game called: generalization! You’re winning right now.
Arguable.
Would you be happier if I said one of the best? There is probably a reason he solos with his thief rather than his necromancer.
Perhaps because the play style fits him better? Idk…considering he did play assassin from Aion, just like me…it would make sense.
Though that would mean he’s not playing the class because it’s “OP” or anything, but simply because he enjoys the play style. Owait…the reason for him playing a thief can’t be that simple…can it?
No, that’s not right…everyone’s playing thief because it’s so “OP”. All thief players should be banned for abusing such a ridiculous class.
This is a ridiculous sentiment.
No class gets full benefit from anything at all from one trait or two.
That being said, the BEST addition to the Steal ability is Mug. And most Thieves use Mug as Steal’s only modifier, because it’s all you need.
Yes, there’s many other ways to modify Steal to make it, itself, better. But those are more specific to other builds, such as a more stealth-heavy build, or what have you.
In actuality, Steal is one of the most versatile abilities in the game because of this. But you fail to see this, because you want to be able to throw on all of its modifications into a single, optimal build to rule them all.
Assumptions aren’t nice, nor are they accurate.
So, a class that already has the best solo survivability and escapability in the game ALTF4s and then ridicules players who don’t have anywhere near his survivability and escapability for running with a team.
And, people defend it. Amazing.
Oh…is that so…and here I always thought my ele had the best survivability & escape routes. =\
1. To clarify, I meant that with rendering occasionally you only see the thief for 2 or even 1 second despite the debuff being 3 seconds. And yes, I’m aware ArenaNet is attempting to fix this.
2. Do you really think adding a way to remove a thief from stealth will break your class? In case you haven’t noticed, a lot of players are already using these methods against thieves. You may be in stealth but you can still dodge these attacks.
3. My point was about toughness. Glass cannon thieves don’t have toughness, but they don’t have a problem eating the hp of someone who spec’s it.
4. WvW is classified by ArenaNet as PvE. Thief damage was nerfed in PvP. Hopefully the February update of WvW is realising that we don’t want to fight the overgrown grub.
1: So, why are you still complaining about it and making it sound like it’s stealth that’s at fault? Not like your crying is going to get it fixed any faster, princess.
2: I heard thieves are the only class that can dodge, and the rest of the classes are unable to do so when a thief goes stealth around them…confirm/deny? As per your original suggestion, it would break the current stealth. If I have to draw you a picture as to why, then you’re hopeless.
3: What does toughness do? Oh…that’s right…it adds ARMOUR. Go back and read what I said regarding this. Again, if I have to draw you a picture to explain it even better, then you’re hopeless.
4: Oh, is that so? I never realized this. Never knew all thief nerfs were for sPvP only. Thanks for pointing it out.
It should have been a utility skill, not a class specialty.
It requires way too much traiting to be considered “good”…especially from a class specialty perspective.
Way too much traiting = First tier trait in Deadly Arts.
Oh, thieves get all the bonuses for steal from the very first tier trait in deadly arts? Good to know!
I always thought they were all spread out all over and required multiple tiers, and traits. Thanks for clarifying it for me.
Well then…nerf steal please, since you get all the benefits from just first tier trait in deadly arts…that adds power as welll. OP!!!!
2: No! If they were doing this…stealth would need to be drastically made A LOT stronger…and all that would cause is make you and players like you come back to complain even more. Stealth does NOT make them invulnerable…and it’s not really that difficult to predict the movements of a common thief in stealth.
Are you actually serious? Maybe you’re not seeing it because you’re on the other side playing the thief, but time and time again in open field combat they just vanish and do not re-appear.
You want to make stealth stronger? For the strongest class in the game already?
I play my ele, probably 10x more than my thief. I play my war, probably 3x more than my thief. I play my thief when I am in the mood for some sillyness and PvE JPs, sometimes dungeons, and gathering (because gathers nodes are not account bound). What’s your excuse now?
Thief is not even close to being the “strongest class”.
(edited by Kurow.6973)
Thread for thief feedback, so here you are…
I finally got feed up with the constant suggestions of “learn 2 play” on thief forums, so I rolled a thief first. There are a number of issues people have with thieves that are generally based on wvw. Here are the issues I’ve found as well as ways that I would suggest to fix them.
1. Rendering – We have 3 seconds to see a thief. We’d like to see you please.
2. Stealth – Stealth in combat is a great idea, but there should be a method for an opponent to counter this in a way that removes you from stealth. I’m not talking direct damage and dots, but rather control effects such as daze, knockback and knockdowns. These are skills that disable a player but do not break stealth. For anyone with other classes than the thief, they’ll realise that these effects are constricted to specific weapons sets for each class and tend to have long cooldowns.
3. Burst Damage – We’ve all seen the screenshots of the 1 second burst ability of a thief. We’ve probably all looked at our combat log to see Steal – CnD – BS is all they needed to kill us. The major problem with this is Toughness failing to scale. 23k kill shots were1 glass cannon blowing up another glass cannon with the aid of the projectile bug (fixed). But when a lvl 80 exotic geared toughness build gets one-shot, people tend to get pretty antsy. Atm, our armour value is actually doing very little to protect us, while gearing towards pure damage is rewarding because of this fact.
4. Restrictive weapons sets – the reason that there are so many dagger/dagger thieves around is that it is insanely rewarding to equip this and then either spam heartseeker at your opponent or steal – CnD – BS. Fight over rather than having to think, time and react to your opponent. More thieves might try something different if there was something profitable in these other sets. Yes, you can make sword/dagger, dagger/pistol, etc. work, but why would some players even bother when they can hit 3 keys and win the fight.
1: 3 seconds is more than enough. It’s easy to dodge C&D and it eats away a thief’s initiative. If all they’re doing is spamming C&D, you shouldn’t be dying to them because the delay in the hits are incredible high to start with. If they’re P/D, predicting their C&D becomes all the more easier. Having said that, THEY ALREADY SAID A HUNDRED TIMES THEY’RE WORKING ON FIXING CULLING ISSUES. So stop with your WvW kittening. It’s not a stealth issue, it’s a culling issue. Even regular players show up invisible.
2: No! If they were doing this…stealth would need to be drastically made A LOT stronger…and all that would cause is make you and players like you come back to complain even more. Stealth does NOT make them invulnerable…and it’s not really that difficult to predict the movements of a common thief in stealth.
3: I haven’t seen this in my combat log in over 2.5~3 months. Perhaps I know how to counter it is why. Perhaps, that also means that it’s not unbeatable and in fact, ANYONE can do it if they learn to. So, my suggestion would be instead of sitting there pondering about what should be nerfed on another class, you should go learn your own class and figure out how you can COUNTER the specific issue you’re having. Believe me…glass cannon backstab thieves are BY FAR the EASIEST to kill (especially those that are carried by it and are clueless as to how to react once it fails). Do not hold your breath on any significant changes to armour. Bunker builds are already under heavy watch because they defy the combat mechanic ANet was aiming for. Armour is in fact fine. The difference in WvW damage is created from CRITICAL DAMAGE (2x in WvW as opposed to sPvP).
4: Other weapon sets needs some love…but that is NOT because the so called backstab thieves and HS spammers are “OP”. In fact, no one should be dying to a thief who can only spam HS. HS has been SEVERELY nerfed, and is actually a VERY poor skill to use on targets to try 100-0 them. The backstab build has also been nerfed and was made A LOT easier to counter. Thieves and Warriors aren’t the only classes that can kill in <3 seconds. Other classes can achieve these kills too IF they’re specced that way (just like thieves and warriors).
It should have been a utility skill, not a class specialty.
It requires way too much traiting to be considered “good”…especially from a class specialty perspective.
The value comes from getting a utility skill’s worth of power without having to use a utility slot for it.
Giving every thief access to shadowsteps is a big deal. It’s pure gold in all forms of PvP. In PvE you’re burdened by a bunch of bad stolen skills, but it’s still a freebie, and who hates freebies, srsly?
Oh, is that so!!!
Let’s compare it to a simple skill here…Ride The Lightning…okay? RTL at base is actually better in all shapes and form because you can use it without a target AND in the midst of a jump. Not to mention that it does damage, has a c/d of ONLY 15s (can be reduced further by 20%), and has a range of 1200.
Hey, you thought that was bad? Let’s now compare some even more similar skills…shall we? Lightning Flash, Blink, Shadowstep. As you said…it’s a BIG DEAL that thieves get shadowsteps…right? People are constantly dying left and right in PvP because a silly thief keeps shadowstepping to their face every 45s…what an OP skill.
If a single utility skill were to be equivalent to class specific specialty skill, then all the other classes’ skills need to be SEVERELY toned down. By your logic, Eles are required to have A TON of their skills removed. Same for Guardians, Engineers…I can go on…but you get the picture (I hope).
If you’re trying to defend Steal as a class specialty skill for thief in comparison to ALL the other classes…then the only conclusion I can come to is; you DO NOT play thief, NOR/OR you DO NOT like being killed by glass cannon (easiest to kill) backstab thieves.
There’s a VERY GOOD reason thief players have been unhappy about Steal since the release of beta. Yes, there’s been SOME improvements…but not nearly enough to consider it a GOOD class defining skill in comparison to the rest of the classes. The major improvements has been through some minor trait changes and the removal of RNG in PvP stolen weapons. At best, it’s a free shadowstep every 45s (what a laughable class defining skill) untraited.
…and before you assume, I play, and like my Ele 10x more than my thief. For multiple reasons. Yet, if you knew me, you’d know Ele is NOT the kind of play style I generally prefer. In fact, classes like thief, ranger, war, and even guardian are. However, the lack of real attention to the thief class and its core issues has driven me away from it. Nerfing unnecessary skills because of complaints from bad players, without fixing those core issues and compensating in other areas, does that.
PS: Here’s the list of shadow steps that assassins (almost duplicate, to a degree, of thief) received in GW1: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shadow_step
(edited by Kurow.6973)
It should have been a utility skill, not a class specialty.
It requires way too much traiting to be considered “good”…especially from a class specialty perspective.
This sub-forum is nothing but a bad player’s haven, where they can cluster up to complain about, just about anything (really doesn’t have to make sense logically).
Well, you are here. So I guess your statement that this is a “bad player’s haven” is a tiny bit correct.
Trying too hard there babe!
As far as I’ve heard, there will be a balance update patch in December. So, just cross your fingers and hope some serious changes are done.
As per Dancing Dagger specifically, all they had to do was fix the damage increasing bug (which I believe they did). Therefore, the nerf was unjustified since the bug has already been addressed.
(edited by Kurow.6973)
k nvm, you just trollin. I’ll leave you to do your thing
No one’s trolling. Was a serious question…and your complete avoidance already answered my question. Thanks!
your post said a lot of nothing and didn’t address my post at all
Is that so? Never played a warrior…have you?
I see sarcasm doesn’t work with you because it’s too difficult for you to grasp that concept.
what does it rely on, then? knockdown? those have cooldowns that are just as long as the cooldowns on stun break utilities. and since greatsword doesn’t have a knockdown on it, the warrior likely won’t get off more than one knockdown.
I hear it’s difficult to play a warrior properly. Especially when hitting that weapon change hotkey. God, it’s a difficult life swapping weapons and attunements (for ele) in this game. It’s so hard. Such a bad mechanic that forces a player to only use one specific tool set.
Never played a good warrior…have you? Stick to fighting the easy to dodge 3 button heroes. Apparently that’s all warriors are capable of.
Cause a thief, and ONLY a thief, has access to ALL of this at ALL times while dealing out those massive damage bursts from Backstab that people complain about…and thus makes them not “squishy”.
Did I understand this right?
This sub-forum is nothing but a bad player’s haven, where they can cluster up to complain about, just about anything (really doesn’t have to make sense logically).
(edited by Kurow.6973)
Shadow strike breaks Immobilize…..great vs the 100 blades warriors.
Is this a troll?!?
No, you can simply autoattack and melee only build to death using that each time they get in range with P/D lol
You realize that a 100B warrior doesn’t rely on immobilize to begin with…correct?
So, I ask again…is this a troll?!?
Shadow strike breaks Immobilize…..great vs the 100 blades warriors.
Is this a troll?!?
I think that ANet should swap the places of Shadow Shot and Shadow Strike.
No!!!
What they need to do is come up with a better skill effect than the current shadow strike.
You WANT shadow shot on a melee main hand. Shadow shot is fine as is.
They don’t need to make P/D even easier to play than it already is.
(edited by Kurow.6973)
I honestly can’t recall the last time I used this skill.
I’d much rather use C&D than this. Your dagger hit needs to connect for the shadow step anyway…so, you’re better off using C&D followed by P 1 after getting some distance.
the stealth mode is a joke, more time on the “cant-be-stealth” debuff . (sorry cant remember the name I cant see it, the time is short on it…)
I dont know if he’s hacking or not. But if is not, seriously that class and any class with stealth is really OP…
The revealed debuff is 3 seconds and the stealth can go up to 3 seconds if you trait it. WvsWvsW is known to have the issue of not showing the target player right away. That is in fact a wvsw issue and not a class issue.
^^This
Seriously ppl, don´t post this complain over and over again, it has been told a thousand times before, that this is not Stealth problem, but the server/rendering issue. Therefore it has nothing to do with the class or any other class with stealth abilities, got it?
Thanks for finally understanding this.Acutally, the server/rendering issue is only 1/2 of the problem.
It is a stealth mechanic problem, or at least in my opinion. The reveal debuff only applies if the thief attacks from stealth regardless if the thief is in combat or not. You can CnD for 3 sec of stealth or 4 sec if traited, wait for stealth to end and CnD again for another 3-4 sec, then you can use Hide in the shadow for another 3-4 sec. By this time you have enough init for another CnD. (this is just an example as there are different combinations for extending stealth).
You add in server/rendering issue in WvW which gives thieves a .5-1 sec delay coming out of stealth…now you can see how frustrating it is to fight a thief.
Is it working as intend? Probably but I can’t say for certain. Maybe they will fix it where all stealth triggers reveal once it ends. Who knows. In the meantime, deal with it.
If you’re dying to nothing but C&D spam, then I got some news for you!
Annoyance, and frustration =/= OP. That’s like me saying: mesmer is OP because they can make so many illusions, stealth and teleport.
(edited by Kurow.6973)
I see there’s quite a few Aion folks running around in GW2.
@ sorrow: I have a very serious question for you. Can you play ANY class effectively?
…because to me, it seems like you just like to troll forums (especially the thief forum) and be clueless, while trying to sound convincing with senseless arguments.
It’s like you’re trying to argue…but with wrong arguments, your personal fantasy, and with numbers and theories on paper. Thus, making yourself look like a fool and a butt hurt player who dies to the squishiest class in the game, no matter what build they fight against.
FS is a garbage skill. Utterly garbage!!! I have personally NEVER used sword on my thief besides when I used to play a daze build (before that was unnecessarily nerfed too) to try benefit my team in a TEAM fight.
I don’t care about your opinion if you just say, using your words, senseless arguments, to justify why FS is garbage.
What do you guys say to justify that FS is garbage?
FS is a garbage skill. Utterly garbage!!! I have personally NEVER used sword on my thief besides when I used to play a daze build (before that was unnecessarily nerfed too) to try benefit my team in a TEAM fight.
Does it look a valid argument?
I just see the statement that FS is garbage without any piece of reasoning behind.
While I have explained multiple times in this topic and in other topics in the Thief forum why S/D and Flanking Strike is far from garbage, the only answer I get is “FS is garbage”. I’ve also posted some verified numbers to prove that, in fact, FS make more dps than autoattack to prove that some guys were wrong, but looks like that to you, they are only:wrong arguments, your personal fantasy, and with numbers and theories on paper. Thus, making yourself look like a fool and a butt hurt player who dies to the squishiest class in the game, no matter what build they fight against.
While some unverified and made-up stats are more worthy than real numbers.
I’m the fool and butt hurt player who dies to the squishiest class in the game? Holy kitten. I’m actually defending Flanking Strike saying that it is good while you people say it’s garbage and it’s me the butt hurt player? Not you who are not capable to play a build without mashing your buttons at random hoping to get a kill?
That’s not me the problem here.
Read the thread. Play the class. Learn the class. Play other classes. Learn those classes. Learn the skills available. Learn the mechanics…and then I’ll discuss with you, anything that needs discussing.
thieves burst damage is WAY TOO HIGH more than any other class in this game by a mile! that mixed with the fact it all happens before the thief actually gets rendered is stupid. Its the reason people qre QQ’ing in every gw2 forum out there. They jump in and try their burst if it fails they stealth and reset cd and try again. Its lame.
The culling bug allows thieves to run riot in WvW
basically thieves need a rework, reduce the spike combo damage, give them more options (does ANY thief ever use the sword?), fix the culling issue.
give them one infiltrator arrow escape not two in a row, it allows them to escape any combat with ease. Most have the passive 25% speed boost in WvW anyway. mesmers don’t have 2 blinks, or warriors 2 dashes… no other classs can just pop two teleports instantly.
What class do you play, cause you clearly don’t play ALL the other classes.
Pretty much every single class is capable of the same burst as thief if specced that way.
Other classes get at least one gap closer that moves them MUCH farther than infiltrator’s arrow.
There is one issue you can fix immediately that will drastically lower negative thief sentiment. There is one specific gripe I hear about thief consistently.
Heartseeker, HEARTSEEKER, HEARTSEEKER
Seriously. Just get rid of Heartseeker spam and people will stop complaining about thief overnight. Even if you make it a stacked ability with 3 tiers and it is game breakingly more powerful than Heartseeker spam, as long as people no longer see HEARTSEEKER, HEARTSEEKER, HEARTSEEKER, followed by the rez button, you will no longer need sticky threads like this. 100% Guarantee.
False!
HS has already been massively nerfed. It’s already pathetically weak compared to how it was before. No one can kill anyone by simply spamming HS. If someone dies in a 1v1 to a thief spamming HS only, I’m sorry, but they’re TERRIBLE…and should probably reconsider trying to PvP before learning the basics of the game.
Thief has already received numerous nerfs to please the complaining community of bad players. However, you do not see a reduction in the number of complaints…do you? It’s because no matter what, you cannot please these people until the thief becomes a free kill at all instances for them.
-Backstab should cost int.
-If your attack from stealth is blocked/dodged you should lose stealth
-a player should not slowly fade into stealth when no longer stealthed.
-damaging a player from stealth should reveal yourself instantly, and THEN start the restealth cooldown
-taking damage while stealth should “blink”(but transparent) the player on and off but keeping them in stealth
-I would love to be able to use a 2hander sword.(like the shadowblade from DAOC!)
Backstab has the highest amount of conditions behind it. It does NOT need anymore.
There’s no reason to lose stealth if an attack is blocked or dodged. That makes no sense logically.
Thieves already lose stealth and are put on a 3 second restealth timer as soon as they attack from stealth. It already works this way. Have you even bothered trying to play a thief?
If any form of detection is added to stealth…it will not only make stealth much less viable as it is right now, but it will also require a much stronger form of stealth to be implemented…and that will create A LOT more complaints.
(edited by Kurow.6973)
Feedback:
I don’t think any thief should be able to kill anyone in less than 2 sec. Before you start flaming me, I’m a tanky elem with full exotic gear with toughness and vitality. I have scarified a lot of power and Precision for survivability and I still get 2 shot’ed. If I was using my Power, crit and precision gear it would have been a one shot kill. I’ll even post a screenshot to prove it. So yes something needs to be done with a Thief’s C&D and BS. Getting hit for 11k+ in one hit is outrages with 2600 armor. Now if I was using my full excoitc glass canon armor that would have been a one shot kill.
1: How do we know this screenshot is from BEFORE or AFTER the massive AS nerf?…or that you didn’t change your armour AFTER dying, BEFORE taking the screenshot? This applies to EVERYONE posting these screenshots and complaining.
2: You saw a thief coming at you as a tank ele, and you died…to a BS thief nonetheless, who most probably had 12~14k HP tops. I think this tells us something else. I’m sure you know what I’m referring to.
3: I can’t remember the last time I died to a BS thief 1v1 (especially one that I saw coming at me) when playing my D/D Ele…especially in sPvP…where the damage is significantly lower due to half the critical damage.
3. in PvP if you use the pistol stealth move followed by spammign the dual shot skill you can actually do pretty good dmg at a distance.
In PvP, if I see a P/P thief, I drool from my mouth because I know it’s a free kill. P/P in PvP is TERRIBLE. All I do is dodge and continue strafing soon as I see Unload, and I barely take any damage AT ALL. Wasting 2/3 utilities and your heal skill to stealth for P 1 is silly. I’d rather play P/D if I wanted to benefit from P 1.
In PvE, P/P is ONLY, and ONLY worth using when you’re FORCED to stay at range during a single target DPS…and, that’s ONLY for Unload spamming…until you run out of initiative ofc, which doesn’t take that long…especially when untraited for initiative regen.
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@ sorrow: I have a very serious question for you. Can you play ANY class effectively?
…because to me, it seems like you just like to troll forums (especially the thief forum) and be clueless, while trying to sound convincing with senseless arguments.
It’s like you’re trying to argue…but with wrong arguments, your personal fantasy, and with numbers and theories on paper. Thus, making yourself look like a fool and a butt hurt player who dies to the squishiest class in the game, no matter what build they fight against.
FS is a garbage skill. Utterly garbage!!! I have personally NEVER used sword on my thief besides when I used to play a daze build (before that was unnecessarily nerfed too) to try benefit my team in a TEAM fight.
I like it the way it is. I don’t believe our sword or dagger main hand skills need tweaking.
Heartseeker does too need tweeking. Something has to be done about the distance, it is stupid, and thieves spamming it from afar to “close the gap” just look absolutely ridiculous.
I also think it should require a target to leap forward, like infiltrator’s strike does. If you hit IS with no target, you go nowhere and your shadow return mark appears where you stand. HS just leaps forward, and can be spammed to cover a large distance, and can be used effectively by a cowardly thief to run away.
I feel like thieves using HS to move around at will is cheesy. See it all too much, and although I’m not RPing at all, it really does break immersion when I have to stop and think about how dumb it looks, jumping 20 feet and thrusting your dagger at the air…
I’m fine with this as long as ALL the OTHER skills OTHER classes get that lets them close gaps WITHOUT having a target are nerfed as well. =]
PS: A thief IS supposed to be played as a coward…ergo the stealth, the movement abilities…the pathetically weak defense, and lack of HP.
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" You deal huge amounts of damage but you die almost instantly when someone spits at you. What good are you to us when you are dead? "
That applies to PvP too.
Since when does Whirling Axe evade? Last I checked it has no evasion.
What FS needs is a much faster, and less buggier animation. Also the damage it deals is actually quite pathetic…mostly because it rarely lands. The skill also doesn’t benefit much, if at all from traiting FS…because the placement is bugged. You’d think FS would benefit from FS, but it doesn’t. A simple fix would be to change the skill into: 0.5s stun initially, shadowstep or swing behind target (without bugging out), attack damage + boon removal.
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Way too obvious for some, and not so obvious for others.
Mods are too busy infracting people for posting “unrelated posts”, instead of these posts.
Hundred Blades deals 1224 more damage then backstab does.
Kill Shot also does more damage then backstab does if you add in the 3% damage from burst tree, even more if you take into account burst traits… Kill Shot can also pierce and hit an infinite number of targets.
You want to know what kill shot and hundred blades don’t have?
Stealth and teleports…
be happy we thieves can escape the damage.
Don’t talk about thieves this way. It only makes you look ignorant…and clueless.
It’s like me saying…hey…you want to know what stealth and teleports don’t have?…invulnerability…be happy we warriors can completely negate damage while face tanking and dealing out as much, if not more burst damage than thieves (in AoE too).
…and yes, I have a thief, and yes, I also have warrior. I play my warrior MORE often than my thief (mainly because of the nerf trends that I’ve observed so far…that lead me to believe that thief is going to be a waste of time). The class offers A LOT more than thief. It’s also A LOT more versatile and devastating in PvP.
If I had to rate my recent playtime of each character on a scale…I’d say, it goes: Ele-War-Guard for top 3. As per rating effectiveness in PvP, I’d say it’s easily Ele-Mes-Guard-War for top 4.
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They qq about HS because you can spam it as a execution skill on low HP targets.
Since the tool tip adds up all the HS hits in the last few seconds before their death and displays it as a whole, they don’t see the other numbers and think they died only to HS spam (which is sad if someone did die ONLY to HS spam).
I don’t mind the damage thieves actually do, the problem is the safe layer stealth can provide to them while other classes cant get that layer. Being able to basically reset the fight whenever the fight will not go right for someone is not actually a good mechanic and it doesn’t work well in a lot of games, i don’t blame thieves actually for it. I for once liked how Assassins on gw1 worked, they did fine damage and didn’t need stealth, there were nice ways to counter them. But’s is just that stealth is really a hard skill to balance it doesn’t matter which game it is. I am trying to be constructive here.
ArenaNet could improve thieves in some areas so they wouldn’t need to be so stealth reliant.
YEA!!!!!
I agree! Bring back gw1 assassins so I can 1 chain everyone day in and day out…and be a master of all weapon sets.
No, seriously though…do you even know what you’re talking about? Stealth is not a “safe layer”…especially in sPvP. It’s a “I’m hindering myself and my DPS to try land a backstab that I shouldn’t be able to land on a good player that knows how to dodge and put distance, while constantly being bombarded with skills and AoEs for 3 seconds”.
Imho, you weren’t being constructive…you were just being another complainer, who’s complaining about something that annoys them. I honestly believe more than 85% of the complainers here have never played any of the old video games. You know…the ones that used to take skill and was hard. The ones where the company didn’t just update a “patch” to make things easier for your sake. Ah…good ol’ days!!!
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Thieves have trap utilities?
I’ve never seen a thief use one. No wonder I never knew this information.
I thought they only had signets and venoms.
I love glass cannon backstab hero thieves!
They are by far the easiest to kill. Makes my life and earning glory points so much easier. ^^
Put down your nooby D/D set and bring S/D . Than laugh on D/D elementalists corpses.
You’re so good!!! Tell us more!
I agree…and while at it, why not make it dual wielding…so you can dual wield greatswords:
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep!!!!!
I have a Razer Naga and a G15 that I use. Almost all of my skills and things like dodge are all bound on my Naga, and are readily available to use easily, while keeping my movement free with WASD.